Contraduction: The Death of the Design Argument with Dan Barker | FFRF’s Ask An Atheist

[@happyhippie2853]

Devastated and heartbroken. We're in for many challenges and I will continue to fight and support FFRF

[@FFRForg]

Thank you for your support!

[@billbill5326]

Dan, I ordered the book today. I needed something after the awful election results.

[@onetrueevan6992]

Indeed just as Dan said, after the sad day of the American elections, everyone in FFRF please don't give up! I'm not even an American resident nor citizen, and yet I appreciate all your efforts. They will be needed in the days to come... And of course a thank you to Dan for the book on what is probably the most interesting deistic argument.

[@leeevans2831]

Thank you so much for being there for non-believers in fictitious principles.

[@tulpas93]

Thank you so much to the two of you and all those behind the scenes that made this happen! 🎉

[@skiplarson6653]

Having just listened to first minute of introduction, I'd like to compliment Leo Costello on his clear voice and presentation. He really knows how to speak slowly and clearly on youtube. i also found Dan's talk at the convention about contraduction to be the highlight presentation there so look forward to hearing the rest of this interview.

[@Amazing_Mark]

'Contraduction' looks interesting. And I definitely look forward to you commenting on the (regrettable) implementation of Christian Nationalism over the next 4 years. 2:40

[@lisablacker3102]

I'm glad you are waiting to do a show on your strategy for continuing the battle to uphold the first amendment and the constitution in the wake of the election. Some of us need more time to grieve and process, before we can handle that. Thanks for all you do, FFRF ❤

[@freddj123]

Why doesn`t this have more views?

[@oldpossum57]

The GOP wins will doubtless encourage their like-minded equivalents in 🇨🇦. Certainly there are right-wing and nationalist movements in the nation already. While fundamentalist Christianity is less common in Canada, they anticipate trading votes for influence over the Conservative Party of Canada, widely assumed to win a majority in 2025. Your work debunking and disarming the cults is much appreciated here too.

[@howardhutton6806]

Putting a word to it can help us see it even if it isn’t there like religion. Words however even let us see things better that are already there like the word blue. Checkout the history of the word blue and blue pigments.

[@jodineerings6781]

It’s been a rough day!!!

[@librulcunspirisy]

Thanks 👍

[@rogersacco4624]

The smarter the god you come up with the less likely any religion is.valid.

[@MrOortCloud]

I heard a creationist say once that it's hard to look at the complexity of the eye and think it just happened by accident. As if it's presupposed that living things created by the laws of the universe and the conditions of the earth aren't being built under a design. It's egoless, and god is not required, but it is in a sense a form of design. Like how AI is just a program on a computer but it can build lifelike images as the result of this programming. Evolution is a conglomeration of selective pressures, programming in this metaphor, which favors survival and death as it's ones and zeros. Our eyes, as beautiful and complex as they are, aren't even the best eyes on earth by a wide margin. Did god decide that human beings, so favored as they are and a literal creation by his own hands, should have shitty half baked eyes? How bout waste and reproductive organs being the same organs? How about teeth leading to most peoples death until a few thousand years ago do to having too small of a mouth to accommodate our wisdom teeth? All these have explanations, either evolution has a reason, (Our eyes evolved to assist us hunting during the day, tracking pray, sleeping at night, and so forth. The human head expanded for a larger brain and their jaw reduced in size over time faster than the teeth could keep up genetically etc.) or god was super shit at his job and I don't really want to worship anything like that.

[@frederickanderson1860]

The majority are not always right. Conformity in beliefs is about legalism or dogmatism.

[@Lightbearer616]

Sorry guys, I simply cannot understand why intelligent people are still discussing and debating "Fine Tuning". It never happened. I don't say that because I am an atheist. I don't say it because there isn't a single FACTUAL argument theists can offer for it. I say it because it is theistically impossible: The definition of a god is that it must be omnipotent and, fundamental to that, it cannot be subject to rules (it is the source of all rules). The requirement for "fine tuning" is a rule. An entity that must "intelligently design" ("fine tune") a universe because there is a rule it must obey, is not a god and, if it's not a god, it can neither "Intelligently Design", "Fine Tune" nor create anything because it's not a god." YES IT IS THAT EASY. And please don't forget the mind numbingly obvious: An omnipotent god could make as many universes as it wanted with as many cosmological constants as it wanted AND IT COULD PUT LIFE IN ANY ONE OF THEM. So the subject of "fine tuning" could not possibly arise in the mind of an actual god as it is an irrelevance which would never arise. YES IT IS THAT EASY AGAIN. And please, again, don't forget the also mind numbingly obvious: No god is going to "fine tune" a universe for life and not put it's "crowning glory", man, in it for 13.4 billion years. As far as "Intelligent Design" goes, well that's a whole list of rules a god doesn't need to create or follow. Feel free to prove me wrong........ Some points on the "Intelligent Design" claim to ponder: THEIST: It must be intelligently designed because DNA (6 billion genes) is too complex to be naturally controlled, a 1:10^56 chance. ATHEIST: Well no. Assuming abiogenesis (which in the absence of proof of a god must have occurred), the pattern is, per evolution: a first gene forms and writes its own instruction for use., then a second, a third, fourth, fifth........, 6 billionth. At no stage would it ever become too complex to operate itself naturally as it has the full instruction manual from the first to last gene. (It's like saying an A380 could never be built because the Wright brothers didn't know how when they built the first plane.) 1:10^56 never occurred, it was always a 1:1 chance DNA would always be able to control itself naturally. (There is scientific debate DNA is not the pattern/programme for life rather the cell membrane is: John Noble). THEIST: The cosmological constant is so finely tuned 1:10^77 chance it is too complex to happen naturally. ATHEIST: Well no (and note this is just a few). 1. Contrary to theist claims we don't know if the universe had a beginning. There are several other theories e.g., String theory, multiverse, cyclical, a universe in every black hole etc.. 2. We aren't actually sure how many constants make up the cosmological constant. 3. We don't know if the constants of the universe can actually exist at any other number. If they are fixed, then the chance goes from (the fake) 1:10^77 to 1:1. 4. If the universe cycles: "Big Bang" - "Big Crunch", there is no time outside space time so, regardless of how massive theists make the odds number, this universe is inevitable. We could be in universe mark 1:10^77 now. 5. Creationists have to deal with the problem the cosmological constant isn't formed at the "Big Bang" i.e. creation, it is established later. (Not "fine tuned" at creation.) 6. Science is now questioning if the cosmological constant is fixed or if, as some evidence leads us to believe, it changes over time, meaning the constant for billions of years after the "Big Bang" may not have supported life. (Not "fine tuned" at creation.) 7. The "Big Bang" is a quantum event. Causality doesn't apply in Quantum Mechanics i.e. "because it had a beginning", doesn't necessarily mean it had a cause. And theists must deal with "universal laws" can't exist before a universe and "causality" is a universal law. 8. It is impossible to prove there ever was "nothing" before the universe, again removing the god requirement argument. As said, do you want more examples? The point is, there simply isn't anything FACTUAL supporting a concept of a "fine tuned" universe or a requirement for one even if it was possible, which you now now know it wasn't. A final little dig at theists and their "fine tuning"/"Intelligent Design" farce: I am walking down a beach and I find 3 watches all showing the correct time and ticking happily: 1. I look into watch 1. It has 50 parts: This watch was clearly intelligently designed. 2. I look into watch 2. It has over a million parts (our universe/DNA): This watch was clearly an act of random inclusion of parts and works by chance. 3. I look into watch 3 and it has no parts: This watch was made by a god. The more complex something is the less likely it is to be a product of a god/Intelligent Design. Lets start the ball rolling with the first of thousands of obvious examples: Given a god could place the planets around the sun and simply tell them to rotate around it forever, why would that god create gravity? There is absolutely no logic to support the concept. Given a god made sun it has no need to run out of fuel. Why is it going to and why does it burn fuel? (Consider, on that point: If Adam and Eve hadn't disobeyed god, the earth would have been their eternal paradise..... Errrrr...... with a sun intelligently designed to die in 10 billion years from its creation? Not seeing exactly how eternity works there.....)

[@tasteful-attitude]

what kind of nothing materiels did god use to build the universe?

[@Company-59]

As an atheist, I’m all for Freedom from Religion. As a mensch, I cannot watch your videos because I feel vicariously embarrassed by the lack of enthusiasm, wittiness. Dan, you’re a very good and arguably one of the best eloquent fighters on stage and in panels when you meet your contras with an elegantly and pointed foil bout and charmingly avoid and counter their feeble rebuttals. And in your videos here? You, and your guests behave and talk like it is slightly unpleasant to be in the studio and interact. IT’S A PITTY! Perhaps you can onboard, even temporarily a marketing company that would help you setting up the fire. Thanks.

[@hilaryraftery3628]

Stick to religion..