Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor Meet on Oprah

This aired in the early fall of 1984. It was the day Dan Barker met Anne and Annie Laurie Gaylor. It was also the first time Dan spoke publicly about his atheism. He had just sent out his letter of deconversion in January of that same year.
Learn more about the Freedom From Religion Foundation at ffrf.org.

[@aldrisang7981]

what really got me is how calm the guests were and how aggravated the audience was getting

[@wayneking5906]

Yes, shocking isn't it. Very very distasteful

[@kayem3824]

This audience would have enjoyed watching the guests tortured and burned at the stake if it wasn't for the separation of religion and state, which was achieved through long struggles.

[@Carelock]

That’s Christian love for you...

[@denniswilson9317]

The difference between being supported by logic and being supported by faith.

[@jamesrosano9439]

@@kayem3824 I

[@mattfoley6082]

Notice how angry and hostile believers get when challenged. "When you're used to privilege equality feels like oppression."

[@seanjones2456]

great comment

[@lloydchristmas4547]

Bingo!

[@katherineg9396]

Do you know who said that quote? Did you say it? I think that's so true, brilliant!

[@damiennkaka1209]

Angry believers? god works in mysterious ways...i wonder how many of these believers still believe after 20 something years 😂

[@trekkiejunk]

@@katherineg9396 -- Its not original to the OP. Its old as the stars. (6,000 years)

[@sanmigueltv]

The audience seems so hostile. I was amused by the black woman holding the Bible who said she hasn’t read the entire Bible.. she is the stereotypical Christian.

[@seanjones2456]

"I haven't read it from cover to cover." fart sound

[@toni4729]

I've read it, it's the most depraved, disgusting pile of shit and damaging nasty viscous spiteful thing I've ever read and to think people love quoting bits of it to small children, it just makes me sick.

[@jamesrosano9439]

Well read it cover to cover then see for yourself religion is a delusion and join the atheist when you’re finished

[@x00p3]

@@seanjones2456 "I haven't read it from cover to cover." Womp, womp, womp!

[@marlinbundo2409]

Oprah herself was hostile to the atheists. In fact religion has long been a strong unifying force in many black communities, many black celebrities have been particularly hostile to the notion of atheism (ie Steve Harvey).

[@jared_really]

Damn, I forgot how aggressive Christians act when someone questions their delusion.

[@chrisbrooks4032]

They were downright nasty

[@alleynejoelle]

Top Comment!!

[@jasoncarpp7742]

It's crazy how Christians can get. Why they don't like being questioned and lose their shit when they're questioned, I don't get it.

[@mattorr2256]

They act completely opposite of what their religion says or teaches. It is a big reason why many like myself and friends are indifferent to religion

[@johnmcleod8961]

as has been said: "I don't have enough hate to be a Christian" or "nothing hates more than Christian love".

[@lydias3600]

Proud to be an Athiest !!

[@RadsnRems]

Hell yeah

[@njorun1829]

Born and raised.

[@IgonDrakeWarrior]

Fuck yeah

[@aligato2197]

I can learn much from the calm, well-spoken manner of the Gaylor women.

[@Erin__D]

watching this in 2019 and its making me so so happy! Thank you to all the atheists who came before us and paved the way for us leaving the faith now.

[@ebencipe]

Imagine the courage they have to collect given that religion is something prime back then, with people shunning you when you come out as atheist

[@TheCobalt100]

Oh, a miracle is in the making. Dan found Annie. Annie found Dan. What a wonderful world they are making for all of humankind. Love FFRF.

[@Lumumba_00]

I didn’t know this until I read your comment but I had a feeling she liked Dan’s introduction and wit.

[@andrewhampson5162]

Dan Barker, via the internet several years ago, was a major catalyst in my transformation into a free thinker. He's a hero too me. To be such an intelligent man yet be humble enough to admit he was wrong, sets an example for all of us. Ive gotta say too...he has great taste in women.

[@talledos]

There are tears in my eyes, those people right there, in that moment, were the light in a room full of darkness.

[@rayrothermel4861]

Well said. I agree with you.

[@exmormonroverpaula2319]

In 1984 I was still a Mormon. I went on my missionary service in the mid-1980s. I didn't leave the church for good until over a decade later. When I visit a Mormon church with my family now I hear all this ridiculous stuff; I can barely keep from laughing during the meetings. So glad I'm free from religion. Hard to understand how it took me so long.

[@rombarker3129]

These people are Amazing. 35 years ago they had the guts to go to a TV show to speak about Atheism. They are smart and courageous people. Dan and Annie are still around changing the minds of people and making a better world. People like them make a better world.

[@lloydchristmas4547]

Absolutely!

[@kjozzerosiris9464]

I agree

[@dreamingrightnow1174]

It's important for non theists to assert a view that isn't suggesting that America is a theocracy. The deep disingenuity in these people when they stand there admitting they aren't even students of the christian bible and yet it's the only way to immortality..

[@atheistmoe5528]

I never Knew of Atheism till 2010 when First got into the Internet Yet I Have been an Un believer 23 years

[@ashwinvarghese25]

Absolutely! Even now in 2021 I am not comfortable in admitting that I'm an atheist because the society that I live in is not that supportive!

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

I guess Pascal's Wager was considered clever in the 80's.

[@tomslick1650]

+uncleanunicorn lol

[@LionHGH]

Not anymore lol

[@HolyKoolaid]

Not a lot's changed. Theists still use it on me all the time.

[@scabw]

It never stopped being "clever," I think. It certainly makes sense to me.

[@robpalmer1387]

It’s still is by theists. A friend who is religious asked me that just this year.

[@llongone2]

Nothing fails like prayers - so true! This show was the first time I heard this phrase. I've always thought it was a great slogan for the anti-theist movement.

[@doneestoner9945]

Think of all the parents whose children are in the hospital with sicknesses, who end up dying. I bet they prayed harder than anyone.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

If I am correct (Which I very well may not be) I think Mark Twain said that way back when. If not it is the sort of thing he would say.

[@FactStorm]

@@doneestoner9945 Yet the dolts in the audience don't seem to think so..instead they engage in emotional pleas and yelling over others. Sickening level of stupidity..

[@craigory5649]

I prayed that my father would be cured of cancer.... RIP Dad

[@smkngunzzz1843]

Main reasons people hold on to their Religion is: 1. They were trained from time they were children that if they turn away from the belief they’ll be punished in Hell for eternity. 2. Can’t handle the idea that our physical death is final so the comforting idea of an eternal afterlife takes over. 3. Fear of being labeled an unbeliever and rejected by family and others as a result.

[@SandraLovesSun]

I love how the Mom empowers her to speak. Good stuff.

[@MeeEee-ge1zg]

Where do they do that at lol

[@hughdman]

In September of 1984 it married a girl from Chicago. Soon after we went to Chicago to meet her parent. I happened to turn in the TV and saw this episode. A year or too late I saw Christopher's Hitchens on C-SPAN and I know my journey was complete. Thank you Dan and Annie Laurie and Hitch for helping me find my escape.

[@doneestoner9945]

I sure do miss Christopher Hitchens

[@bobs182]

I became a nonbeliever at age 12 from reading the Bible. More people should read the entire Bible with the intent of understanding it.

[@mattorr2256]

@@bobs182I did too about the same age

[@lc237]

I enjoyed seeing the video of the time Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor first met. What a great pair they make and what wonderful work they are doing in the service of reason and the true dignity of humanity.

[@JohnMichaelStrubhart2022]

Wow, that's sweet to see how Annie Laurie and Dan met. For young whippersnappers, they defend their views well.

[@atheistexchristian]

Thank you Annie Laurie and Dan for allowing us to see this.

[@Zeall39]

Isn't it interesting that even though this show must be 30 yrs old we atheists are facing the same issues today. Just change the music, technology and dress and this show could represent modern day sentiment toward us. There is so much work ahead of us to calmly and rationally pose challenges to religion and plant seeds of doubt in people who blindly believe in religion and the supernatural. Fortunately we have these brave, activist pioneers Dan Barker, Annie Laurie Gaylor and Anne Gaylor.

[@FactStorm]

So long as childhood religious indoctrination remains, we will always have this pernicious problem that is religious faith.

[@jekibahumuu2643]

Your comment was 9 year ago But unfortunately, even today, we're still facing the same issues

[@joycej9415]

And I think it is better now 10 years later it is just that so many more of us are nondelusional. The religious ones are getting worried as they realize they are wasting their lives on a myth, so they try to make us legally have to participate in the myth.

[@mattorr2256]

@@FactStormyes completely correct there.

[@joelhassig6099]

16:42 - If religious people could only hear how absolutely *INSANE* they sound to the rest of us.

[@henrim9348]

These people knew back then, what I only recently learned. And I'm in my 50s. Wow !!! Dan, Ann and Annie were feisty and knowledgeable. They knew more about the bible than everyone in that audience. This is an amazing show.

[@marlinbundo2409]

"Why do atheists have to force their beliefs on everyone??" -said entirely unironically by the 6am door-knocking clan

[@dirtlifenz]

The way Annie looked at dan at one point I saw the chemistry then went and googled it and they started dating shortly after and are still married.

[@josecampechano6136]

"nothing fails like prayer" im gonna keep that!

[@teawithsu]

I loved this! Wonderful show! Thank you so much. I found this per Dan's referal in a 2016 Ask An Atheist. I wish I'd seen this back then. Great work! I love all of you. So grateful you kept it going!

[@jaspeis]

Mine is: "This girl's got the devil in her!" I laughed pretty hard, I didn't realize it was the 17th Century.

[@Rico-Suave_]

This 17th century mentality can stay around and come back even in 2030 if religion gets a majority

[@MeeEee-ge1zg]

@@Rico-Suave_ come to we can't stand the thought of thinking alamance county usa

[@carmenismyname]

That guy saying that the Egyptian and Greek empire were destroyed by the god of Israel in exodus and claiming that as a historical fact is oblivious 😳. I just can’t wrap my head around it

[@FactStorm]

He's psychotic..he doesn't believe in evolution because he doesn't understand it.

[@tygerpurr5345]

Annie Laurie does not seem to age. She is still quite beautiful and so intelligent......

[@noahroad6577]

I’m really impressed with Dan Barker. He is my new favorite Atheist

[@doneestoner9945]

I'm reading his book, godless.

[@FactsBeforeFaith]

I heard about Annie and Dan's first meeting from his book, "godless". I just started reading it, and it's excellent. I love these two.

[@juba9575]

I am listening to it on audible now. Fantastic book!

[@djdougdj]

I loved this! I have been a member of the FFRF for almost two years, they are a great organization of people of sound minds and character. I actually read about this interview in Dan Barker's book 'godless'. Great book by the way, get yourself a copy & enjoy! -DP (New Orleans)

[@gwendolynstanfield2653]

I wish that we could see where these audience members are now... I also wish I could have been there to answer some of their insanity. I am glad that atheists have gotten much better at answering the claims of the religiously deluded. I found myself yelling at my phone watching this. I wonder how hard Oprah prayed for god's Intervention while she was being raped by a family member? Disgusting that people actually believe that prayer to a magical man in the sky grants them wishes sometimes and when he "says" no it is for your own good. When is child rape EVER good for ANYONE. How can anyone TRULY believe this?

[@shookreeseeree4]

It is really a brave n heroic effort by Dan n Annie n the others to be on stage in 1984 when atheism values are termed as satanic n very frowned upon..salute to them .

[@ottz2506]

Those people in the audience were the 20th century equivalent of the medieval people who would call for them to be punished or even killed because they blasphemed their god.

[@Greenbd100]

Isn’t it amazing that all these “anonymously picked” audience participants just so happened to have their bibles with them.....because that’s the first thing you bring with you to a television show😂😂😂😂

[@doneestoner9945]

I think they knew the topic of the day's show.

[@ottz2506]

If I’m going to defend them, many in the audience may have known what the topic would be about beforehand and felt like this was the best time to bring a Bible.

[@dreamingrightnow1174]

@@doneestoner9945 Yeah, the station obviously promoted it to stack the audience.

[@roqsteady5290]

They are taking a crib to an exam they haven't studied for.

[@slickbricknick123]

You would think they would have followed god’s commandment of “hiding thy word in thy heart” but I forget that most Christians don’t read the Bible anyway.

[@Trillidotia]

ugh, the fashions from 1984... Oprah was pretty rude, confrontational and defensive. She invited these people onto her show and treated them poorly.

[@Jullebratzia]

Finally! The 80s fashion is awful 😂

[@GiftSparks]

Oh yes, lived through it. Shouldpads on women made us look huge. Like a linebacker.

[@dhss333]

4 intelligent people here - & they're not in the audience.

[@junevandermark952]

I left all religion at the age of 70, and since then have believed as did the scientist Stephen Hawking before he died, that in one form or another, the universe always existed ... no creator involved ... and that suffering of all forms of life ... is natural. I am now 83, and try my best to be as kind to others as is possible, knowing that if I do my best, I will feel good about my own journey in life.

[@foreverwood13]

i'm not a good person so that i will be rewarded, i'm a good person because i have compassion and care for other people and things

[@argyle6674]

That took courage to get there in front of those people. Bravo! It's interesting...you can critique someone's golf game, or musical performance, etc., but never tell them about their own religion, no matter how gently or respectful. Blind faith knows no limits.

[@toni4729]

It doesn't matter what you say, if they're not willing to listen, nothing you say will move them, nothing at all. God told them not to listen to these people and that's all they know.

[@clarkporter1340]

It's y I don't try 2 b overly polite wen speaking against religion

[@mattorr2256]

Religion relies on the naive and ignorant. Also the indoctrination of children.

[@pseudosun]

wow, i can't watch it all now, but annie laurie was very well spoken at a young age. The way they carry themselves is respectable.

[@xpswebstar420]

34:58 Anne Nicol Gaylor - “I apply the test of reason and kindness. I use the yardstick of reason and kindness. If I’m contemplating an action, is it reasonable, is it kind and that’s all you need.”

[@dimbulb23]

In '84 I'd been an atheist for about 39 years. I had never believed or prayed. I never believed the stories. That's all any religion is. A bunch of stories that can neither be verified or falsified. Just have faith. Never bought it.

[@lloydchristmas4547]

You're a lot smarter than I. I spent three years being extremely religious. I'm glad I'm free now.

[@40wolfbabe]

Lloyd Christmas I’ve spent a year being super religious and I’m still trying to recover from Catholicism. I’ve been thinking about starting an atheist channel for people who are atheists, agnostics, people who are not serious in their religion, or people questioning their faith.

[@NateD006]

@@40wolfbabe check out the atheist experience channel

[@mattorr2256]

You have the gift of having the ability to think with logic and with reason

[@CVshorey]

I was going to compliment Oprah for allowing these brave four a voice, then she was disgusting as usual. Invited them in, then accused them of aggressively pushing an agenda. Such a deceitful host. She has definitely been a promoter of woo. Nohpra.

[@lloydchristmas4547]

Excellent work FFRF. Way ahead of the 80s.

[@endthedisease]

lol, the black guy pics one of the known historical myths from the bible. The Egyptian army was not destroyed by the Jews or swallowed by the sea. In fact the Jews were never used as slave labor to build the pyramids.

[@drpatriciamushonga5411]

Nothing fails like prayer. Now there is a true statement if I ever heard one.

[@alkoholdo]

If you listen carefully, in minute 8:22 you can hear Cupid's arrow hiting Annie's heart.

[@trekkiejunk]

The first time i saw this was several years ago, and i did not know at the time they became a couple. But i did wonder if they hooked up. I got the impression of some chemistry. Funny that they met because of Oprah, and actually worked out.

[@ashwinvarghese25]

When you think about it...wow that's cute 😁❤️

[@warrencolegrove1]

Awesome! I love Annie and Dan ! They have done so much for us

[@poerava]

Inspired women. Well before their time.

[@AB-wq2vy]

I admire how eloquent and brave these four speakers were despite hostile audience. It is important that we have these kinds of people speaking out!

[@richardkuda321]

Pioneers of common sense!!! Great job!

[@TheHydred]

As mentioned before, nothing fails like prayer!!!

[@mithrasrevisited4873]

So which sky wizard is your parents choice? What parts of the multiple choice book have you selected? Dan has face up to many people, he is just out of the cult now and you can see he is slightly damaged in it. He is far more assured now that he has healed from this cult.

[@beckyd712]

I just LOVE Dan Barker's and Anni Laurie Gaylor's answers to all the religious questions and fear they encountered at the Oprah Show. Happy to be a member of FFRF!

[@Catweasle66]

Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence. it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.

[@great9800]

"Nothing fails like prayer."

[@DaveKeenan1956]

Yes, and theists have a catch all when prayers produce no measurable results, they say God works in mysterious ways. And when people die, often suffering in the process, theists comfort themselves by saying that they've gone to a better place and that they'll meet again when they themselves die.

[@jesseriker3076]

Some people are intimidated to believe in god out of fear. It never worked on me. I am a lifelong atheist.

[@WolfgangBrozart]

What the hell? Did they invite random nuts from the local churches that day to be in the audience? So rude.

[@nikolai082700]

It's really sad and pathetic that the very polite, calm and friendly guests were treated like shit after being invited. Oprah made no real attempt to referee the rude and venomous audience other than to occasionally say "they have a right to believe that" right before she cut them off and wouldn't let them address the vile and

[@mattorr2256]

She sucks

[@slickbricknick123]

That’s your average christians in the audience. They get upset when confronted with cogent points against religion and Christianity.

[@athena3865]

I lost my birth family because of it. I'm 66.

[@jbaccanalia]

Wow, I'm so impressed. You've been steadfast all these years and your influence on society is immeasurable. This is a profound bit of history.

[@razony]

Ex-Christian. I rid myself of the faith completely. The fear western religion imposes upon humanity is criminal. 'Believe or ELSE' mentality. With 40,000+ different sects in this religion alone, one has to know this house is severely divided and will eventually collapse. The moment I did rid myself of it, was the moment I realized the Divine source is real and it's all about LOVE. No Hell, Sin, Satan, Judgement... Some can be scared into believing, some won't allow it. Love Without Fear!

[@nickokona6849]

It's both amazing and sad. Amazing that they had the guts to get in front of such an obviously hostile audience, but sad because even today we hear all the same bulshit arguments, lies, obfuscations. They weren't good arguments then, now, or ever will be.

[@Nexils]

My heart felt so heavy watching this. If that's a way to describe the idea of being in a room filled to the brim with people that don't agree with you.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

I can see how being on that show gave Dan all the conformation he needed not to reverse course! Chicago is my birth place and long time home town. Oh, and a late congratulations to Dan and Annie; you make a wonderful couple!

[@louisanow]

This was filmed during a period of record rising ev*ngelical numbers and power, wasn't it? Makes you appreciate some of the struggles the FFRF must have had just to be heard then. Glad they're still here for and with us all now.

[@richardkuda321]

Pioneers of Atheism. Bold. Great.

[@gerrylk9]

Never stand between exslaves and their exslavemaster's religion. I used to be a theist. I'm much happier being an atheist. Life makes so much sense now.

[@dja-bomb6397]

It's videos like this that give me so much hope for the future. The discourse has improved tremendously over the last 30-something years and it's only getting better. Sadly, Christian arguments haven't gotten any better though.

[@ullrichfischer5796]

Yes but more importantly, she and her mother are so intellectually honest and intelligent!

[@samcero]

14:28 Anne Laurie : Minority views shouldn't be stifled. Oprah : That's why WE LET YOU say them. These words are concerning as it sounds more like a threat than an actual acceptance.

[@stephenfernandes1066]

One side is so composed, calm and elaborate and rest, along with the host are voodoo

[@njorun1829]

Oh wow I'm late for the party (I was 4 yo when this was recorded and I'm 43 now). About 29 min in a man says to Dan: "You say you didn't quite know if there is a god or not a god, so how can you be talking about truth when you're not really sure" and my answer to that, as a born and raised atheist, is: "because that's the scientific method". Science is at best an educated guess. Science is looking at what we have at hand in terms of proof and saying "based on the evidence known to us at this time, this is the most plausible answer." Science is questioning old truths in order to gain new knowledge. Science is not written in stone, very much unlike religion. Science is not unanimous, and that's why I love it.

[@seanjones2456]

I bet Oprah could put together another show today in 2019, and there would still be a majority of audience members that feel the same way as these people did in 1984. Very sad.

[@toni4729]

Oh yes, I have to agree with you. It wouldn't be the same in the UK though. She would be outnumbered.

[@kristofflabuschagne4338]

lol, Oprah is so funny in this video. I can see that your choosing sides Mrs. Mastermind. But it's great! Great job to the atheists making a stand for the evidence with sincerity. They made some amazing and timeless comments. Thank you!

[@ebencipe]

Comments that are still relevant up to this day :)

[@wildflower20102]

Thank you for sharing. I enjoyec seeing you on this precursor to th Oprah show. I wish I would have heard this programs in the 1980s. I would have startes my journey to atheism much sooner

[@livestrong1976]

That young woman is so well spoken!

[@wowojeejee]

Very intelligent women - the atheist ones of course! Seek the truth! Religions are all based on mythology!

[@stauffap]

Fascinating how little these debates have evolved. Religious people are still asking the same questions even though they apparently have been getting reasonable answers for well over 40 years.

[@leratopotgieter7826]

Oh my word! I'm so glad I'm no longer a believer!

[@glennjoselane1690]

I actually became a full fledged atheist after watching this quite a few years ago.

[@doneestoner9945]

Good for you.

[@Siegbert85]

damn she was a cutie back then

[@tytlyf]

wow, 43 minutes of awesome. I have to share this. Who would've though Oprah would provide such entertainment 30 years later!

[@johnlinden7398]

Interesting and refreshing to see that back in the 1980 s people were still dressing up , the men wearing suits and ties and women still wearing skirts and dresses !

[@kennyjacks1]

The real answer to where we get our morality from was to ask the audience if the bible abolished or said anything bad about slavery. Humans evolved and realized that slavery was a bad thing and so they put an end to it. So sad to see black people believing in a book that condones slavery.

[@gearaddictclimber2524]

I hate how dogmatically aggressive the audience and Oprah is to the guests. It really goes to show that there really is no hate like Christian love

[@joycej9415]

That last question is the funniest. They will not live forever but just because they think they will, they feel that threat would change our minds 😂

[@jdmac44]

"I think it's sad that you believe that you're born and then you die and there's nothing else" Neither yours nor my feelings about the reality of our existence has any bearing on whether that reality is true or not.

[@Vijin321]

I can't stand videos like this. Where the audience is just so closed minded and biased. I love Dan Barker to death, but I can barely even stand to finish watching the video thanks to the ignorance of the audience.

[@spookyactionatadistance1316]

The most startling revelation is just how little growth religious apologists have achieved. The weak arguments demonstrated in this episode are identical to today's apologetics.

[@atheist12345]

I don't think a person exists, who is more proud of themselves than Oprah.

[@celiamoreno5117]

There are many countries that are not Christian like China, Japan, and its inhabitants have a moral behavior. Secular morality is based on survival, on mirror neurons that make us more empathetic and supportive, on the fact that we must live in peace to build a civilization, the fact that we have learned a lot in the centuries of life in society, in the golden rule "treat others as you wish to be treated", which existed long before Christianity, and so on.

[@ivyshoots]

Love her too; her name always reminds me of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. Lyrical Irish name, bonnie Annie Laurie.

[@AntonXul]

Well I’ll be Damned! I’m the 666th like! Talk show with commercial format just doesn’t work for this type of discussion. A commercial always popped when the panel was about lay a thought bomb on them. It really irked me when Annie Laurie was about to school that bible thumper on what’s actually in the Bible and then........ We cut to a commercial. Oprah promised to let Annie Laurie to tell us what’s in the Bible and then didn’t let her. Never hated commercials more than that moment.

[@thomash.schwed3662]

Exactly; and this was 1984! To make matters even worse, today, there would probably be at least twice as many commercial breaks, each lasting at least twice as long. Well, I suppose she who now runs an entire network and an entire magazine each named after herself needs to make her millions somehow!

[@samsngdevice5103]

I went to Alcoholics Anonymous and stopped drinking. Highly recomend it. I am athiest.

[@TheSatiricalDissident]

It's amazing that Oprah's belief that a sunset, or the universe is irrefutable proof of the gods existence, is still her go to argument.

[@avedic]

8:25 lol...she likes him. it's cool to see that connection happening live.

[@davesteadman1226]

You can tell this is before cell phones, computers, and facebook reduced everyone's attention span to three seconds.