FFS Week 1: The Seven Signs of Classical Fantasy!

[@ramblingraconteur1616]

Amen on the prelapsarian ethos!! These were certainly hallmarks of my adolescent reading. The “chosen one” who has some inherent power rather than effort or learning is another that I’ve enjoyed less and less as the years go by. Great example with “what” vs “who” and Gimli. The stereotyped races of classical fantasy also recall the stereotypes of human nations that filled “boys’ own” magazines. Orwell’s essay on those blends humor so well with analysis. I wonder if the monarchical and militaristic aspects of fantasy also derived from the sense of “empire” or “destiny” in the home nations of some early fantasy writers. That perception might be very different for someone who was on the other end of empire. A child or young person who lived in the 1900s in the Philippines, a Kenyan survivor of the Mau Mau suppression, or anyone from the myriad reservations might have a very different sense of those two concepts. I’ve learned to listen when students question why the hero’s circle is all-white/all-male, and I look forward to the future stories that build on our conceptions of the human condition and what can be magical in the stories we share with each other. Cheers, Jack

[@thebookishbryants]

What a great video, Steve! It's nice to see someone digging into the aspects of the genre this way, and I am not sure these things can be seriously argued against, but there are plenty of people who will try! Thank you, Steve. Excellent video! Scott.

[@peterluxus7382]

Very insightful! I would say that these "signs" of a specific genre are "symptoms" of a collective elaborating a common trauma, an archetype of some sort. As you mentioned a golden era or a better time, they seem to long for this time. Maybe they long for the time before the great wars, World War 1 and 2, when humanity seemed to have been able to solve all major problems and suddenly the world felt down in this darkness. And combined with personal issues like getting older is interwoven in this books too. Some sort of melancholia I guess.

[@bookssongsandothermagic]

I think this is my favourite of the many videos I’ve seen if yours - interesting take on the archetypes and cliches in epic fantasy. Particularly interesting is the first comment on race-centric focus in the writing, I’m juggling how to tackle a similar issue from my first read, but your general point goes beyond the bigoted subtext, as you say, which is very interesting.

[@gerarddonohoe5806]

Wow a hugely enjoyable video,and one I'm glad you posted as it's food for thought. im pleased you mentioned how the 1st part of the fellowship reads like a children's book,its a huge part of the book I struggle with as I'm cynical old codger. Do hope your finding the wheel of time series less painful a viewing than I did?

[@vilstef6988]

In the first book of LOTR with Tom Bombadil and the barrow wights, I regarded as preliminary adventures to stiffen the backs of the Hobbits and get them into the mindframe of what was to come. It did not fit into the story frame needed for the Peter Jackson films.

[@anneworks]

Hi Steve, you're very good at making your thoughts clear. I think Tolkien is the only author in this subgenre that I',ve read, so I'm looking forward to the video with recommendations. The children's stories angle is interesting. If you don't have sources already, I believe Andrea of the Infinite text channel has studied children's stories and literature. She might be able to recommend some good titles. It would be interesting to make timelines about what type of children's books were en vogue when certain fantasy authors were young. And maybe compare to contemporary children's literature. May be fantasy is lagging behind because of inherent nostalgia? I realise I know very little about the development of the genre.

[@duffypratt]

I like them all when they are well done. I love a good Bildungsroman, so I have nothing against an authors working with a chosen one. All of your signs/sins are largely derived from Tolkien, so they apply to epic fantasy, but not so much to urban fantasy or other genre offshoots. But, of course, the epic fantasy has basically come to dominate the market, so there is less fantasy that is inspired by Alice, or Gormenghast, for example. The monarchical aspect is fairly easy to explain. In a world where good and evil is so clearly defined, and so readily apparent, it’s much easier for people to buy into something approximating Plato’s Republic. We know who the good is, so it’s easy to give him (and it’s always him) free reign. In this, I think you are probably right about it’s reflecting a yearning for the simpler days of our childhood, where our parents could be trusted.

[@JoelSwagman]

On the racism question: I'm reading Lord of the Rings now and it strikes me that the Orcs are treated like the Amalekites--that is, killing them all to the last one is framed as an unquestioned good. I go back and forth on whether this is something I should be bothered by, or whether this is just part of the genre

[@skjoldursvarturskikkjan7860]

Definitely the coming of age and the chosen one is unbearable. But aside from that what annoys me the most is how tamed the experience of war is, war should be mostly about misery instead of heroes. Although I don't think the The Witcher books are particularly good, I have to give in when it comes to the war experience.

[@DDB168]

Highly accurate archery - annoys me a bit. 😉😉

[@timv82]

None of the 7 archetypes bother me