Fifth Beatle Tier List

Who was the Fifth Beatle? In this tier list I cover George Martin, Brian Epstein, Billy Preston, Pete Best and many more to answer the age old question.
Get Surfshark VPN at surfshark.deals/ELLIOT - enter promo code ELLIOT for 83% off and 4 extra months for free!
Patreon: / elliotroberts
Instagram: / elliotroberts
Twitter: / elliotroberts5
Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/elliotroberts

[@ElliotRobertsVideos]

😑😑😑 You may have noticed a weird edit when I'm talking about Tony Sheridan, I used a few seconds of his song 'My Bonnie' and it got copyright claimed. I had to edit it out but here's my transcript of what was cut!: "Tony Sheridan Is one of two non-Beatles (the other being Billy Preston) to receive label performance credit on a record with the group, and the only non-Beatle to appear as lead singer on a Beatles recording which charted as a single. Although on that particular single ‘My Bonnie,’ they are technically credited as ‘The Beat Brothers. He had nothing to do with the Beatles after this 1962 recording session but just the fact that he has a performance credit with the Beatles gets him D-tier status." - Elliot

[@MidnightBlueMovies]

Nicky Hopkins also received performance credits on the single version of Revolution. He also plays piano for all the individual Beatles after they split. Some of the bigger singles. Like Happy Christmas War is Over for John. George's Give Me Love, Ringo's Your Sixteen and many others. It is also well know that Harry Nilsson was called the 5th Beatle by John in an interview. Harry worked closely with a each of them. He was Ringo's best man. I guess it's tricky to make a video like this without it being hours long.

[@enginescoachesentertainmen5849]

What are your thoughts on Elvis 2022?

[@PlanetoftheDeaf]

Also that was the single which first alerted Brian Epstein to the group, when someone asked for it at his record shop!

[@hpatss4966]

Ahh that makes sense. I would’ve just cut the whole Tony Sheridan section and added a slide abt it later lol

[@Adriaantje2008]

Man this copyright shit is so stupid 🥲

[@MYPOWERSTATION1]

I was lucky enough to meet Paul in 2015 and asked him who he recognized as "the fifth beatle". His response ...." you are". He said anyone who loves the band, and carries on the legacy is a fifth Beatle.

[@villmink]

Paul: You are S Tier 5th Beatle

[@AidenTRP]

That is awesome

[@marty6779]

Most Paul thing to say.

[@davidemmet7343]

I think he meant me!

[@RetroCarsForever]

LOVE that!

[@brandonmclendon5368]

For me, George Martin is the 5th Beatle. He helped give the boys their sound, he would experiment with new things, had some truly beautiful orchestral arrangements, and a lot of the songs wouldn’t be what they were if it wasn’t for his production work.

[@Unevenramble]

So true he really was the fifth beatle

[@danielebowman]

Indeed. While rightfully he only 'S' tier here, there is daylight between his status and all the others.

[@Taschenschieber]

Agree - he's one of the few people on the shortlist who accompanied the Beatles on pretty much their entire career and whose contributions were actually musical rather than management, business, fashion, etc. - so to me he has a bigger claim to this than Epstein or Preston. (Also, I think it's weird to call actual Beatles members like Pete Best "the fifth Beatle" because imo that term refers more to "honorable" Beatles members.) ((Also also, I don't want this to be a dig on Epstein - he certainly was very important to the Beatles but managers usually don't get treated as part of the band.))

[@gep27]

There were a lot of contributors to the Beatles, but George is the only one I think they could not have done it without.

[@SonofMrPeanut]

Agreed. Basically if we could fuse George and Brian into one person, that would be the fifth w/o question.

[@edwinslater1888]

My grandfather actually went to school with Brian Epstein. The school adopted him as a kind of "star alumni" after his death but neglected to mention the fact he was bullied into the ground for being gay and even tarred and feathered for being Jewish. My grandfather said he was "deeply troubled yet frightfully intelligent" and I think that sums him up perfectly.

[@samuelbence37]

my dad works at nintendo 😂

[@standingontheshouldersofgi5876]

@@samuelbence37would’ve been more believable if it was your uncle smdh

[@Bottled-Soap]

That is absolutely crazy that he was tarred and feathered. Not very humane

[@IMeMineWho]

​@@samuelbence37No comparison..lol.

[@jacksawack6724]

@@samuelbence37that’s the problem with telling these kinds stories, there’s no real way to tell if someone’s telling the truth or not.

[@boldandbrash4451]

I would’ve included Ravi Shankar. He was the guy that introduced The Beatles to Indian music, which was obviously very important near the middle of the band’s years. He also became a close friend of George’s and even went on tour with him after The Beatles broke up.

[@zciliyafilms5508]

I was going to say this. Minus Ravi, George's one song on Sgt. Pepper's doesn't happen. He brought out core elements of George's personality, and I think given how dramatically his songwriting improved in the Beatles' latter years he deserves at least a D-tier.

[@deanmoss]

justice 4 ravi

[@IMeMineWho]

agree!

[@scottlawson1191]

​@@deanmossI suppose you're a die hard Jimmy Savile fan too

[@IMeMineWho]

@@deanmoss Oh please. Ravi loved a very good life and couldn't possibly have cared less whether he was considered the 5th Beatles or not!

[@olliejames2033]

Maybe the real fifth Beatle is the friends we made along the way

[@jacobmacdavid399]

The three S Tier Fifth Beatles: George Martin (huge contribution to their sound throughout their career), Brian Epstein (the force that turned them from Merseybeat to International), and Billy Preston (a musician who played with them as an equal for a whole album)

[@gloomsdoom649]

Agreed

[@rockycabanes1293]

George Martin definitely

[@HieronymousCheese]

Not Billy Preston - his contribution is very limited and specific. Whereas Brian and George were instrumental in their whole careers, without whom they would not have succeeded as they did.

[@danculbert6349]

@@HieronymousCheese Also he wasn't an equal on those albums considering the rest of them had song writing credits and he didnt

[@jimderrickson9896]

No, not Billy Preston...this is some kind of weird revisionist history propagated by an entire generation of goofball kids who weren't even alive when Lennon died. Preston played on two songs on arguably their worst album, then did the rooftop jam. Nice addition to Let It Be for a couple of months (and later a tiny bit on Abbey Road), but no way does that even come close to the contributions of George Martin and Brian Epstein. Even Stu Sutcliffe, who was a full-fledged official member of the Beatles for well over a year, contributed more with his swagger, style, Astrid connection (who came up with the moptop hairstyle) and influence on Lennon.

[@ElliotRobertsVideos]

Okay, some valid omissions: Jeff Lynne, Norman Smith, Nicky Hopkins, Linda McCartney.

[@fenderfetish]

You also missed Tommy Moore…well, his photo anyway 😁

[@bigpeach4999]

Hey when is the George album ranking video coming out? @elliotroberts

[@hellsjamfleas]

I think I've heard people add Mike McCartney before. Their unofficial photographer, tag along (to hamburg, india ect), friend to all, full time Beatle brother, and one time drummer. Very much an insider and access to Paul if Mike could he would have joined the group and when they were desperate for a drummer in the early days they considered him, but he broke his arm . He was liked by all the band and visited them separately of Paul even after the band broke up (despite his loyalty to his brother). There are many images of Mike hanging with the boys especially in the early days, he also has worked with Paul musically many times along with strong relations to Epstein and Martin. He remains someone with great knowledge and intimacy with the band and his brother, claiming the only people who ever came between him and Paul were the Beatles.

[@ricardo_miguel13]

Mick Jagger, Brian Jones and Pattie Boyd also have backing vovals, as Linda

[@marguskiis7711]

Jeff Lynne played guitar on the 1995 -- 96 sessions and produced them.

[@meropetied]

That was a whole lot of Beatles-nerdy fun! But I think ending it on "Oh yeah, Alan Klein, F tier for you, you bastard" was my favorite thing. It's likely going to have me giggling to myself all day.

[@carlosdruiz07]

It was perfect 😂

[@parisbrat]

No one has anything nice to say about Klein, and that will never change. NEVER.

[@daunslowspark4786]

Klein = deeply unpleasant. Spector = murderer

[@Zice033]

Billy Preston will always be my S Tier Fifth Beatle. Dude made “Nothing From Nothing”, and help loosen up the Get Back Sessions.

[@JohnWildeFF]

He definitely belongs in the S tier area. Together with George Martin, of course.

[@hannahmoran3660]

AND “Will It Go Round in Circles”, I feel like that song sometimes gets overlooked!

[@ukatofarticus9046]

Came here to say this! The idea of a "fifth beatle" implies the addition of someone to the band once the JPGR lineup was already there, with people like George Martin only really being external management roles that every rock band has anyway. And holy moly, will it go round in circles? It will come in time? That's the way God planned it? NOTHING FROM NOTHING? Bangers in multitude from this dude.

[@watts111]

Preston was also the sixth Stone from '74-'77.

[@flickpad]

Agreed. Putting him on the same level as Pete Best is nuts. Best was judged to be sub-par when the band were still comparatively rough and ready, while Billy Preston was an equal to the band at the top of their game.

[@danielharwick3739]

Personally I think you’ve been a little harsh on Brian Epstein. You can tell from watching Get Back how much they missed him, even just having a stable figure there. I think his death was the start of everything going wrong for the band. They would’ve still broken up but it would’ve been a whole lot less messier I think. On par with George Martin in S tier for me.

[@jonsrecordcollection7172]

Another reason for ranking Epstein higher is that he was responsible for professionalizing the Beatles & getting them out of the leather jackets they wore in Hamburg. He turned them into an economically successful band, which allowed the lads to keep playing without ever having to go back to working-class day jobs

[@anneteller3128]

I would give Brian more credit as well because they spoke about him affectionately in so many interviews. You can tell they really liked the guy in addition to him being their manager. Also, you can tell they were stunned and in shock when they heard about his death.

[@1980redkremlin]

I agree. Top tier for Brian

[@jamesswindle5253]

Brian would have talked them into taking a year off, away from each other. They would have come back with enough material to fill a dozen albums.. As for Pete Best .George Martin was the one who told Epstein that Best was no good for the band. Best beat was either to quick or to slow. John said later when he was sick of people asking. Pete Best was not a very good drummer. Best has made a lot of money from not being a very good drummer

[@anneteller3128]

@@jamesswindle5253 Pete Best had plenty of interviews and I think he did get some royalties to boot on the couple of songs he played on were recorded from their pre-fame days. And, he's still alive. Not true for most of the lads. Even Keith Richards from the nemesis band is still alive. That one I can't figure out. Remember how they told us that sex, drugs and rock and roll will kill you. If true, how is that man still alive?

[@jims41]

I agree that George Martin is the true fifth Beatle, he did seem to be minimized at the period of time of the Get Back movie; he was the force that put them on the map. After watching get back about a half a dozen times I think the album would’ve never been finished if Billy Preston hadn’t showed up at Apple studio. he was such a positive force during those recording sessions.

[@_rob_boss]

George Martin produced all of their albums to varying degrees. Billy Preston played piano on one of their weakest albums. I wonder who had a bigger impact on The Beatles?

[@u_know_90]

The story of Tommy Moore is pretty hilarious. Imagine being some 30 year old forklift driver, going on a tour with the proto-Beatles and losing your tooth in the process, then turning them down to go back to driving a forklift. Absolute Chad.

[@Senor_Gago]

Plays with The Beatles Loses tooth Refuses to elaborate further Leaves

[@fenderfetish]

He did more than lose his tooth…he had his whole face smashed in! The guys grabbed him out of hospital so they could continue the tour, and upon his arrival back home, he got an ultimatum from his fiancé…he thought the band was going nowhere anyway, so he left. He did an interview in 1979 where he said he regretted his decision…

[@Scotttyist]

True, but the photo used shows Johnny Hutch and not Tommy Moore. From what I've read of Hutch he's the kinda guy who went around loosening other people's teeth if they got on his bad side.

[@steviebarr7353]

Yes I think there is only one partially obscured pic of Tommy playing with them, that is def Johnny Hutch

[@Scotttyist]

@@steviebarr7353 I think Tommy made it to that audition later in the night. I've seen at least one photo with him in it. Hutch sat in before Tommy got there, much to his displeasure as he didn't rate the guys at all. I've never seen a photo of Norman Chapman before so that's a good get by Elliot though.

[@robertsaul234]

It was either Geoff Emerick or George Martin who said that 5th Beatle was the Invisible, but palpable presence, that happened when the four were together in the studio.

[@OnePost909]

That's the answer. There were four Beatles and then the invisible presence.

[@Poverello2001]

You missed one important and influential person, Ravi Shankar! He taught George how to play the Sitar and influenced several of his songs. He deserves to be on this list.

[@pasi8800]

George Martin, no question! His impact on the band was so huge.

[@HieronymousCheese]

So it was fortunate that the boss of EMI forced him to record the Beatles right at the start (punishment for having an affair), right? They were pretty dismal - their best song was Love Me Do, FFS.

[@danielebowman]

There's something extra spicy when someone as nice and gentle as Elliot and never seems to use bad words, calls someone a bastard, but Klein deserves it LOL.

[@mumbles215]

The Clapton dig was unnecessary. I know Free Speech isn’t a thing in UK but in USA it is and it’s very valued by us Xers and Boomers.

[@doctorrobert1339]

@@mumbles215 ''Free speech isn't a thing in the UK'' lmao americans again thinking they're the center of the world. Sounds about right coming from a Gen X/Boomer. Just accept that Clapton lost his mind and stopped making good music decades ago.

[@BonJoviBeatlesLedZep]

@@mumbles215 LMAO what. Free speech is valued very much all over the world. Also. Elliot isn't British. Protesting wearing a mask and staying indoors to save your life and the lives of others is free speech, but it's really dumb speech.

[@sarahm.5356]

Eliot was exercising his own free speech. You got a problem with that?

[@pigeonpie1]

Agreed! Boo!

[@nickspencer2207]

I think Brian Wilson deserves an E tier spot right next to Bob Dylan. Like Dylan, he never directly worked with the group, but Brian's own musical career was hugely influential in some of the Beatles' greatest works, and I think he deserves at least a mention

[@NewFalconerRecords]

Excellent call. Every bit as deserving as Dylan. Paul McCartney put out a full-page advert in a musical paper to promote 'Pet Sounds' just 'cos he loved it so much.

[@stephenhosking7384]

I was expecting Brian Wilson to come up straight after Dylan, as an acquaintance of the Beatles, influence and fiercely admired competitor. The history of music in the mid-60's is Dylan -> Rubber Soul -> Revolver -> Pet Sounds -> Sgt Peppers (-> Good Vibrations). I recall a story of Paul McCartney saying after "Pet Sounds" "You wait till you hear what we're working on now" (ie. Sgt Peppers). I call this the only serious omission from the list. If Dylan is there, then Brian Wilson belongs even more.

[@lucasoheyze4597]

Don't be daft.

[@shewolfcub3]

@@lucasoheyze4597 Brian wilson is amazing

[@lucasoheyze4597]

@@shewolfcub3 Absolutely. But 5th Beatle? Just no.

[@sarahm.5356]

This was really fun to watch. I'm shocked that no one's mentioned Cynthia Powell, later Lennon. Cynthia gave John the unfailing support he needed when he and the band were young and struggling. I think she was crucial to John's confidence. I'd put her above everyone except George Martin and Brian Epstein. John also wrote a ton of songs either about her or in reaction to her. From "There's A Place" to "Across the Universe", Cynthia was a huge part of the Beatles.

[@amandadhoward7134]

Agreed. She was John’s rock, and he would’ve fallen apart in the early days without her love and support.

[@rachaelmorgan4025]

​@@amandadhoward7134 I Agee so much. Cynthia is so over looked on every level I hate to break the news but John didn't magically come to life at 27 and yoko was no fifth Beatles or anything close to it she was only in the studio became John insisted not because they all wanted it it s an insult to pit her on the list. It s even more insult ing to Cynthia s memory

[@ClepsidraSideral]

You're giving her too much credit, though.

[@Hunteriffic86]

Julia Lennon deserves some credit as well in that vein

[@allenf.5907]

I met her once at a Beatles' convention and spoke with her a few minutes. All the while I was THINGING EXACTLY THIS - the person who was there the longest with them - pre- B. Epstein, pre-G. Martin. Beautiful person, presence and aura. And oh, the additional questions that I wanted to ask. My brain was like a rolodex.

[@marty6779]

Billy Preston played with Ray Charles, The Beatles, the Stones, Aretha Franklin, Sam Cooke, Dylan.... And he had some pretty sick solo stuff of his own. What a legend.

[@waynechapman9823]

I managed to talk to him on the phone once while working at Tower Records Online. He had placed an order with us and I called to make sure it was legit. Didn't say anything to him to indicate I was a huge Beatles fan.

[@marty6779]

@@waynechapman9823 that's incredible!

[@piggyroo100]

The fifth Beatle was Leppo, who mainly stood at the back. He couldn’t play the guitar, but he knew how to have a good time, and in Hamburg that was more difficult.

[@dsaltmer]

Don't forget Leggy Mountbatten - huge influence on their trousers.

[@bossleonie7658]

I know that a lot of people don’t call the Anthology sessions “real” Beatles recordings, but I think Jeff Lynne could have used a mention as the producer of Free as a bird and Real love. You did include the other 2 Beatles producers so. I think he would be an E tier at the highest though

[@conner.j.a.wilson]

Jeff Lynne definitely was instrumental to those two recordings getting made - and let’s be honest, they’re good tunes!

[@BeatlesCentricUniverse]

@@conner.j.a.wilson Let's really be honest: the ONLY Beatles songs that sound dated, are the two produced by Mr Lynn. The writer Rob Sheffield (Dreaming the Beatles, a GREAT book) brought up this point. He is 100% correct.

[@MichaelTurner856]

@@BeatlesCentricUniverse nah I like it

[@popstarlo5217]

@@BeatlesCentricUniverse what? They just sound like Beatles songs? They don’t sound any more dated than any other Beatles record?

[@lamper2]

I DESPISE jeff lynne-he makes everyone sound like that dumb band ELO- Same jittery mix on everything his untalented hands touch!

[@colin6603]

Harry Nilsson was the American Beatle. Paul and John said he was their “favorite American group” and multiple Beatles worked with him. Harry’s cover of “You can’t do that” features references to like 10 different beatle songs. Lennon was his drinking buddy and produced an album for him that features Ringo. I’d love if you did a vid about Harry and the Beatles.

[@drmanny1957]

He should be on the list. At least @ F - tier status.

[@HiltonBenchley]

But if you're going for post-Beatles inclusion, Dave Edmunds worked with McCartney, Harrison, and Starr, and John Lennon was very effusive about Edmunds' I Hear You Knocking.

[@keepinmahprivacy9754]

@@HiltonBenchley But Nilsson was an influence and friend of the Beatles while they were still together, not just after the breakup.

[@nateds7326]

Billy Preston deserves S Tier for me. He didn't play on that many of their songs, but his contributions were very substantial. All his groovy key playing on Let It Be is fantastic. And he may only have 2 credits on Abby Road, but those songs are Something, and I Want You, two of the Beatles Greatest songs for alot of reasons, but especially because of his atmospheric swells on the former and his haunting runs and organ stabs on the latter. He is ESSENTIAL.

[@dimsylsodium1]

Separately, George Harrison asked Billy Preston to play on stage with them in Hamburg. But Billy chose not to. The reason was that he was playing for, top of the bill, Little Richard and The Beatles'' were only the supporting artists.

[@spockboy]

Just remembered someone. Nicky Hopkins. He played the electric piano solo on Revolution. Hopkins also has the distinction of playing on solo records made by ALL four Beatles, including Ringo Starr's “You're Sixteen,” George Harrison's “Give Me Love (Give Me Peace on Earth)” Paul McCartney's “That Day is Done.” and John & Yoko's 'Happy Xmas (War Is Over)' and LP sessions for Imagine & Walls and Bridges. Certainly worthy of mention. : )

[@rjpg]

WOW, great info, had no idea he played on all solo albums!

[@joedee9811]

Yes Nicky Hopkins should be same tier as Eric Clapton at least

[@joebloggs396]

And why is Billy Preston so high here?

[@joedee9811]

@@joebloggs396 well, Billy was actually credited on the label, played on sessions for Let it Be and some of Abbey Road and actually played a concert with them, much more then just a one off session like Clapton and Hopkins. His higher ranking is warranted I think.

[@joebloggs396]

@@joedee9811 what I mean is people are talking of him being s tier

[@JoePants]

Honestly I would have put Yoko higher, if anything. C or possibly B. Also, you mentioned Astrid when talking about Klaus, but I feel Astrid deserved to be on this list somewhere, maybe in D or F.

[@joostvrieler8317]

I agree, also considering the fact that she stayed close with them during the years.

[@drmanny1957]

I'd support F - tier status for sure.

[@atsirdsart7386]

For real, my Beatle nerd parents named me after her and I expected more here lol

[@cmeflywva]

In my opinion no one should ever be doubted that Sir George Martin. He was the one that exposed them to different types of instrumentation which could be used with their songs. The talent and ideas they had independently was accepted and helped them achieve their level of greatness.

[@keysmashingnerd]

I feel like Astrid deserved her own spot, she was very influential in her own right

[@50scap3]

As a Beatle fan I would wholeheartedly endorse reading The Beatle Who Vanished, about Jimmy Nichol and his short stint sitting in for Ringo in Australia. As fans it's probably crossed all our minds what it would have been like to BE a Beatle and Jimmy actually had that experience during the height of Beatlemania. It's crazy to think that they asked him to sit in, wear Beatle clothes, perform Beatle songs, really be TREATED as if he was an official Beatle for a short couple of weeks and then given a handshake and a thanks and expected to just walk away from it and live with being a part of the greatest music phenomenon of all time. It was almost a cruel opportunity, initially you'd think you just jump at the chance to do it, but what you wouldn't consider is how do you go on from that?

[@k1773ns]

Wow I wouldn’t have thought of it that way but that’s a really interesting take. Gonna check out his story. Thanks!

[@bunnyleaningonasquishedbun5542]

It also hurts because even though it was a short stint, the three lads treated him like he was a part of the band for years. I think that's what really hit Jimmy, he wasn't viewed like he was a session musician, but became an actual Beatle, and that was a blessing as much as it was a curse because after Ringo returned, the guy felt like he wanted to stay in the band but couldn't.

[@aidanhickey9845]

I'd probably bump Brian into S-tier with George, but good video otherwise. I look forward to your deep-dive on solo George! :)

[@stephenhosking7384]

Close call, but to me it was George Martin who made the difference between them being a good and successful pop group (thanks to Brian), and being "the greatest", which they achieved, with Martin, by 1965 (Rubber Soul), or even earlier (Help).

[@alias3660]

I truly adore how respectful you are when talking about Yoko, even if you aren't a fan of her work yourself. As someone who thinks some of her music and influence is valuable but is also an even bigger fan of the Beatles, I love to see it. You were right to put her in the list! Kudos!

[@dadoctah]

One musical outlier not mentioned: John Scott. He did, after all, play a solo on a Beatles record, the flute on "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away". The "solo" qualifier raises him above the various studio musicians that might otherwise flood the field.

[@paulperkins2]

I think Jeff Lynne deserves an honorable mention in the production category (especially if phil spector is on this list)

[@ElliotRobertsVideos]

Ahh! So true!

[@groos188]

@@ElliotRobertsVideos BRUH HOW IS JEFF NOT HERE HE LITERALLY DID ANTHOLOGY AND BROUGHT JOHN LENNON BACK TO LIFE FOR BLACKBIRD

[@herosmashmigdk]

Definitely.

[@rjpg]

@@groos188 Blackbird?

[@MrKeychange]

No. Please no.

[@DanielTGaming]

I've been watching your channel since your video talking about Beatles biopics, and I absolutely adore the aesthetic & structure of your content. Keep it up, man.

[@elchichosantana6410]

George Martin. Nothing more and nothing less. His music knowledge right from the start helped the Beatles became a revolutionary in music history

[@snerdterguson]

Stu Sutcliffe deserves extra credit because it was through him that the band met Astrid, who inspired the mop top hair style, and she introduced the band to Klaus Voorman, who on top of being a member of the Plastic Ono Band, was also the artist who created the album cover art for Revolver.

[@dorkarama3135]

Doh! I was all set to say Apu as a honourable mention...I thought Linda McCartney was going to be the last one.

[@MisterMoccasin]

It's not even a contest. George Martin played an instrument on every single Beatles album. He was there in the studio for every album they did. He wrote solos and orchestrations that literally made some of the songs what they are. He composed the whole B-side of the Yellow Submarine album.

[@drewgeraci8434]

This was a fantastic episode! You are probably the most informed about The Beatles than anybody else. Thanks!

[@Arjeebee]

I think you should have included Linda not only for her influence on paul and the band, but she also sang a high harmony on 'Let it Be'.

[@spockboy]

George Martin obviously. He shaped them. He played the solo on In My Life. He encouraged creative ideas like playing backwards, tape loops and weird orchestrations. More importantly, he took them on, when NOBODY else would. (Murray the K over Bob Dylan? Lmao. Also, Billy Preston ELECTRIFIED all of the Beatles tracks he played on but to put Brian Epstein, the guy who DISCOVERED The Beatles, shaped their image and found them George Martin on the same tier? If you say so) Great video! Very interesting approach. : )

[@rjpg]

YUP, I can't believe he didn't put Brian on the "S" tier. I think they would've stayed a band post 1970 (even make solo albums throughout).

[@spockboy]

@@rjpg I don't think they ever would have left Liverpool without Brian. He totally saw what they could be. People forget that he was laughed at when stating they would be bigger than Elvis.

[@maya-gur695]

Two words: Brian Epstein. I know George Martin was instrumental to their career in the musical sense, but without Brian they would be just another Liverpool band.

[@Mozart1220]

He was a good promoter, but not in any way a member of the band. George Martin, or Billy Preston.

[@BeatlesCentricUniverse]

Maya-Gur Two words: completely wrong. Even without Epstein or Martin, their talent would have taken them to the top. Martin was the icing on the cake.

[@hellsjamfleas]

@@BeatlesCentricUniverse No way. When Brian said they would be bigger than Elvis they laughed. Their only ambition when he met them was to play the Liverpool Empire and had no idea how to get there, John would have gotten frustrated and bored soon enough, he and Paul were already dropping out of bookings. Along with Cynthia inevitably getting pregnant and John being one drunken incident from an assault charge, they were very lucky to have somebody to sort it out for them, he was incredibly organized ,like they never could be. Along with being able to smooze with the promoters and establishment types that they couldn't. all of them were about to get a lot of pressure to get a real job with proper pay, Brian gave their parents reassurance and them the financial assistance they needed to make this important step. Without him, at best they would have gotten lucky and played a big event or show, but without Brians large scale planning they would have struggled to capitalize on it.

[@BeatlesCentricUniverse]

@@hellsjamfleas Hmmm. Thoughtful and organized response. Completely disagree.

[@catherinewilson3880]

@@Mozart1220 There is no way on God's earth that Billy Preston deserves to be above Brian Epstein. Epstein slogged his guts out promoting the Beatles in Liverpool and beyond, and he also got them their recording contract with EMI. In the early days they relied upon him for everything and his contribution to The Beatles legend is equalled only by George Martin. Billy Preston played on one and a bit albums when they were already the Kings of the world. No comparison.

[@thomassschwarz5998]

I had an idea to make a fifth beatle video recently but you did a way better job than i ever could have. Congrats on going full time on KZbin

[@sevendeadlysquids404]

I've always considered you to be the fifth Beatle that time travelled in order to become a niche KZbinr.

[@legendarcy2834]

Fun fact I found out 'cause of this video regarding Jimmy Nicol: his signature line to the press whenever asked about no longer touring with the Beatles was, "I'm getting better". Years later, Paul McCartney ran into a Beatles biographer who knew Jimmy Nicol and made a remark about the weather, "getting better," which made this mutual friend laugh as it reminded him of Jimmy. This is, apparently, the inspiration for the song, Getting Better.

[@stephenhosking7384]

Good point! The story I've heard is that while he was in the group they'd regularly ask him how's it going, and he'd respond "It's getting better", which became McCartney's "Getting Better" song - so Nichol also gets a partial song-writing credit, in addition to two weeks as a Beatle during Beatlemania.

[@aledandrian]

The number of ways you fit Beatles-related lore into different video formats is impressive ngl

[@cyeamaculture8486]

what a great idea for an episode..thoroughly enjoyed this

[@darrenschuberg4394]

Nice video. My 5th Beatle, if one is needed, is George Martin. He was involved in every album, wrote and conducted most of the scores, and played on most of the albums. A few quibbles. Stu joined before Pete, but more importantly, he, along with John, named them The Beatles. Also, the haircut was adopted by John and Paul in Paris in 1961 and George changed after seeing them. The Love Me Do version released as their first single in England was the Ringo version. The Andy White version was on the album.

[@simonhodgetts6530]

Personally, I always class George Martin as being an honorary Beatle - there was only one of their records that he didn’t contribute to…..and we know what a mess of a production that was! But, you have to consider Brian Epstein as the first person of influence who really saw their talent, and pushed them towards the superstars they became. Billy Preston, although he contributed greatly to Let It Be, was, as much as I love his playing, a sideman. Ditto Eric Clapton. In terms of the early years, Stuart Sutcliffe, although he wasn’t a great musician, he was literally the fifth Beatle. Pete Best…….ah, well, he was their first drummer, but he just didn’t fit in, and the band with him on drums didn’t have that ‘thing’ that made The Beatles, well The Beatles. You could also mention Jimmy Nichol, and if there ever was a contender for a sixth Beatle, I’d definitely give that mantle to Mal Evans - his loyalty and kindness to the band was legendary - just watch the new Get Back film to see how much he loved working for them.

[@jpetersgoyanks]

I would have put Yoko in C tier as other fifth Beatle’s post Beatles contributions to the boys has been included in their cases and no one contributed more to post-Beatles John than Yoko.

[@soulfoodie1]

Great tier. I hope ok to give a shout out to both Olivia Harrison who has represented George and his interests in the Beatles since his too early death. And Yoko similarly represents John. (Paul said they were both Beatles in an interview back in around 2014). Also possibly Ken Scott is worth a mention on the production side along with Giles Martin who has done major work remastering the Beatles back catalogue and going through their archives . Great to see Jim Keltner in this list. And absolutely second George Martin as S tier by himself (and loved what you said about Billy Preston)

[@sarahm.5356]

SoulFoodie: Cynthia Powell gave John the unfailing support he needed when he and the band were young and struggling. I think she was crucial to John's confidence. I'd put her above everyone except George Martin and Brian Epstein. John also wrote a ton of songs either about her or in reaction to her. From "There's A Place" to "Across the Universe", Cynthia was a huge part of the Beatles.

[@FSAPOJake]

I'm surprised Bob Dylan is in this list but not Brian Wilson, who I would argue was the driving force behind the Beatles immense glowup in musical quality in the mid-60s.

[@Touchofgrey44]

Please tell me you’ve been working on a ranking of every George album. Been dying for that video haha

[@strawberryfields253]

i think he said in one of his videos that its coming out in december (dont worry ive been waiting aswell)

[@QuinnTeal]

I feel like you should have put Freda Kelly on there she basically ran the Beatles fan club

[@k1773ns]

Agree! She was a huge part of their early beatlemania days and helped the connect with their fans

[@danowen46]

Congrats on going full time with KZbin Elliot. Can’t wait for more videos ❤

[@cosmicdonkey3473]

A fantastic video, much of which I agree with. And I learned about a few Beatle-adjacent people that I hadn't heard of before. Also, that ending with the last two entries was hilarious!

[@JohnWildeFF]

You made an incredibly satisfying tier list. I agree with almost everything. Aside from Preston, c'mon give him the S status! 😂 Also, imho, it was absolutely deserved to include Dylan for his important influence in 1965. But if he's in there, I would say Brian Wilson belongs in the list as well, since he was highly influential for another very important album.

[@rjpg]

Of all the Beatle related YT channels, your vids have the most likes I've clicked. You take an idea that no one does and there it is. FYI, in my humble opinion, there are two parts of being a fifth Beatle, music and "everything else". Music is easy, that's no doubt George Martin. The "everything else" is Brian Epstein. As much as they can, they couldn't last without him. I'm sure they could've done solo records but would've come back with band albums. Anyway, keep up the great work!

[@alanr4447a]

16:07 Mal Evans also played the wayward "channel swimmer" in _Help!_ (pops out of the ice in the Alps and asks, "White cliffs of Dover?", and again at the end of the film in the Bahamas), as well as the fifth wizard/magician (named "Bonzo") in the _Magical Mystery Tour_ film!

[@drevan1138]

Love the quick Allen Klein F-tier at the end.

[@thomasnelson5758]

To me it will always be George Martin as the distant, far and away forerunner. His production not only influenced the Beatles, but pop music as a whole. Incredibly inventive and innovative, his orchestral embellishments often wind up becoming the highlights of a lot of songs for me, particularly on tracks like Eleanor Rigby, Strawberry Fields Forever, and Penny Lane. Not to mention his ocassional live instrument playing inputs such as the piano solo for In My Life which he (in a genius move) sped up to fit the track and made it sound like a harpsichord (I read somewhere that this sound inspired Ray Manzarek to play a harpsichord for The Doors' hit Love Me Two Times). Brian Epstein, Billy Preston, Mal Evans, and Geoff Emerick are the other main four candidates, but they're distant secondary options compared to what George did. Edit: Actually Billy Preston just from a pure musical standpoint to me was the Fifth Beatle in that his mere presence calmed the Beatles' discordance and infighting enough to get things moving forward, and his electric piano playing imo electrified a lot of the tail-end Beatles tracks like Don't Let Me Down and Get Back. But yeah, Billy 2nd and George a still clear 1st.

[@stephenhosking7384]

I agree completely. I'm sure that it was Martin's sounds on Yesterday, Rubber Soul and Revolver which made the world, including many musicians who cared little about the Beatles, go "Wow!". The Beatles themselves got most of the way there, but it was Martin who took them over the top.

[@andrewfurst5711]

Also, George Martin did a lot orchestrating "I am the Walrus". That song sounds boring in its stripped down version on the Anthlogy. No doubt in my mind that "The Fifth Beatle" claim is strongest with George Martin. Billy Preston a distant second. And no one comes close to Preston for "Sixth Beatle".

[@BenCol]

I think Victor Spinetti could’ve been included in the Friends & Family section. He was a good friend of theirs, appearing in all three of their live action fiction films (as well as guest vocals on Christmas Time is Here Again*). I feel if their tailor made it onto the list then he could’ve done so too. *I mean, yes it was a joke song for the Christmas fan club flexidisc, but it was the B-side to Free as a Bird so I feel it counts. Just.

[@andrewpappas9311]

In my opinion George Martin, Geoff Emerick, Pete Best and Billy Preston will always be the quintessential Fifth Beatle because Martin, Emerick and Best (early on) helped give the group their iconic sound and Preston helped keep them together during the Let It Be sessions when everything was starting to get tense between the band

[@jasona9]

3:09 I agree with you on Pete Best. Though technically limited, he was a Beatle for two-years and actually played more LIVE hours with the band than Ringo ever did. This is important since this was the time the Beatles were honing their craft as a live band in Hamburg and Liverpool.

[@wewin_inonog]

George Martin should've been in the S Tier for musical contribution. He played piano parts on early Beatle records like A Hard Days' Night, Not a second Time, In My Life, etc.

[@willowsparks4576]

Given how Things went downhill almost immediately after Brian Epstein's death I would say that he was the main 5th Beatle who would drive the four to be great. Without him, they just couldnt keep it together (as a band not musically obvs)

[@chrisdunn1155]

That throwaway remark about Alan Klein at the end made me laugh out loud!

[@alvarosundfeld]

In my opinion, George Martin is the real 5th Beatle (after all, his songs had an entire side of a Beatles album, Yellow Submarine), but I think Billy Preston would (literally) have that role if they had held themselves for a little longer. He was such a good and happy presence in the studio, and the Beatles really considered inviting him to the band. I guess it would probably have happened if they stayed together for, say, more 2 years.

[@jamesveronese6519]

I’ve been binging your channel for the past two days, lovely timing

[@seosamhrosmuc]

No Magic Alex!!! I'm kidding of course, great video

[@rogervanoosten9088]

I believe that Alan Civil was given a credit on the Revolver Album for his horn on "For No One".

[@izzytepe]

I'M SO EXCITED YOU'RE DOING KZbin FULL TIME!!!

[@OliverJ08]

I always smile when I find out Elliot has uploaded and I'm very happy he's finally been able to quit his job which means more time towards making videos ☺️

[@watts111]

He's better-researched and engages the listener/viewer way more than 99% of most modern music writers or critics. And has better hair, lol.

[@OliverJ08]

@@watts111 yeah his content is so interesting and fun too and he has those George Harrison locks 🤣

[@RachelMay1989]

George Martin is the 5th Beatle to me. It always makes me smile that whoever runs Paul's Social Media will always post a 'Happy Saint George's Day' message on 23rd April with a picture of Georges Harrison and Martin 🙂

[@InfiniteCringe]

Why was I half-expecting Jeremy from Yellow Submarine to show up as a joke

[@matthewallen1834]

I love the fact that Apu, a fictional animated character from "The Simpsons" got more commentary than Alan Klein. LOL

[@robertlandrum1971]

I agree with you on nearly all of the points. George Martin is definitely THE fifth Beatle.

[@logandean101]

Always look forward to you uploads Elliot! And congrats on taking on KZbin full time! Edit: billy deserves S tier!

[@dannytoeman]

Your picture for Tommy Moore was actually Johnny Hutchinson from the Big Three, who sat in for an audition

[@eastm9314]

Patti Boyd? Singing on Birthday, giggling on Yellow Submarine, suggesting Wild Honey Pie to be included on the White Album and starring in A Hard Days Night. Not even mentioned?

[@joedee9811]

Norman Smith should have been included in the musical contributions section. While not as adventurous as Geoff Emerick, he was the main engineer until Rubber Soul, before leaving to produce the first two Pink Floyd albums. …And session man extraordinaire Nicky Hopkins for his solo on Revolution should be in the same tier as Clapton . I don’t think Dylan belongs on this list, and Murray the K is way too high imo, otherwise Brian and George Martin are both S tier. Another honorable mention- Dick Lester Dishonorable mention-Magic Alex lol

[@Wired4Life2]

I know, right? The omission of Norman Smith is massively disappointing. And yes, screw "Magic" Alex. What a joke. XD

[@glennsmith7311]

Elliot, well done as always I love your work. I'm going to be a Fab nerd though on a couple of things: the image you've used of The Beatles at the Iron Door auditions for the Scottish tour backing Johnny Gentle shows Johnny Hutch from The Big Three as the drummer, Tommy Moore, was late and Hutch begrudgingly sat in until Moore got there. If you take another look at the other photos from the Larry Parnes audition you will see Tommy there. And on that, if Chas gets a guernsey then I'd strongly suggest Tommy touring with the Fabs for about ten days in Scotland also gives him "Beatle" status. I think you've vastly underestimated Stu's role. As you say he was the actual fifth Beatle, but his impact on their sound, their look, their aesthetic generally is hugely significant. As an artist he shaped Lennon's view of the world, and what was possible. Yoko said there was rarely a day Lennon didn't talk about Stu. He's on the Sgt Pepper album cover for a reason, and so much of Lennon's work is directly related to his friendship with Stu. And Stu had not left The Fabs in December 60, he was crook and stayed with Astrid, returning to Liverpool in January and touring Hamburg again in March 61. Mark Lewisohn's Tune In corrects the record on the myths around his bass playing, and this recent appraisal nicely sets out why there is truly only one fifth Beatle and it's Stuart Sutcliffe. www.newyorker.com/culture/essay/the-beatle-who-got-away Thanks again for this great posting.

[@elibrooks69]

super proud of u for quitting yr job !! excited to see how your channel evolves moving forward !!

[@BonJoviBeatlesLedZep]

Giles Martin should be an S-tier SIXTH Beatle. For all the excellent work he's done with remixing the old tracks.

[@WhaleManMan]

Im sure Allen Klein, a favorite of this channel, will be an obvious S tier!!

[@lakrids-pibe]

He was lucky to be included haha! That bastard!

[@rjpg]

Good joke (at least I hope it is).

[@theshortslav2639]

First off, Round of applause for Elliot being able to have youtube as a full time job! Secondly I would not say there is a 5th Beatle as there is no need for one. Everyone (yes even the f tiers) are still part of what we know as the beatles and inso are important. Personally i couldn’t choose just one fifth beatle as both George & Brian are really important (You can even say that Brian did things for the lgbt community if you wanna.) Personally though i love seeing everyone’s opinions on this.

[@fenderfetish]

Correct. There are loads of ‘5th Beatles’…and they are all crucial to the story 👍🏻

[@frankfrank7921]

What did Brian do for the lgbtq community besides hide in the closet? His choice and the times being what they were and all but I would just like to know what you think his contribution was?

[@thePoliticalCat0]

The drummer in the Larry Parnes audition photo at 5:52 is Johnny Hutch.

[@IanOPadrick]

I feel like anybody who gets an unironic, genuine titling of fifth Beatle from one of the four is an s tier

[@thevoid99]

to me, the fifth beatle isn't one person. it's a collection of individuals who all played a major part in the beatles career whether it's working in the studio, playing on some of those songs, handling some of the business aspects, or just dealing with other things. there is no one fifth beatle. to me, it's the following: george martin, brian epstein, geoff emerick, norman smith, neil aspinall, mal evans, derek taylor, billy preston, stu sutcliffe, pete best, jeff lynne, glyn johns, jimmy nichols, the wives/ex-wives, and freda kelly.

[@jamesburke2759]

You forgot the Beetle in the Abbey Road cover XD I love this, i always personally think about this. Wow there were more people than i ever thought. Its amazing how amazing the beatels were and always will be. its staggering to think that these guys were younger than me at my current age and had a full world changing career. Bob Dylan is F tier but A tier for his personality and musical presence.

[@geoffmower8729]

Jimmy Nicol latter moved to Sweden and became the drummer for an instrumental band called The Spotnicks.

[@centennialpeaksadventures]

Congrats on being able to quit the part time job! Love your content and looking forward to what you’ll now be able to bring to us!

[@joemondello4312]

Yes! Great news! Keep up the good work!

[@Wired4Life2]

As much as Brian Epstein was essential and devoted to The Beatles' rise in 1962 and 1963, you get the sense that the boys soon realized his limitations (compared to the stereotypical greedy and shark-like managers throughout the entertainment industry, who definitely wouldn't've given them as much freedom as Brian did). Once conquering the UK and the US was accomplished, Brian didn't seem to know what to do beyond repeating the cycle of shoot a film in the year's 1st half, have the soundtrack ready for mid-to-late summer, tour the world throughout the summer, an album before Christmas, and whatever gigs and TV in the UK squeezed in between. Brian didn't get them the best publishing deal in late 1962. Not only did that favor John and Paul, and thus create distance between them and George (who had actually sang almost as many lead vocal spots on stage up to then), but John and Paul's shares weren't enough for them to fully purchase their publishing rights towards the end of the band's lifetime (which affects them TO THIS DAY, no thanks in part to Michael Jackson). Brian didn't land them any great merchandising deals, whose likely-massive profits they could've fallen back on. As such, when Brian died, the boys FELT at once the gravity of the situation, thus leading to Apple (the boys, while great musicians, were NOT business-savvy), Allen Klein, and their acrimonious breakup (from which Paul received the most hate, yet recovered the best, thanks to his lawyer in-laws).

[@prettyshinyspaghetti8332]

The thing is, Brian was clueless bc the Beatles were breaking ground. Brian really had no clue bc he didn't have a blueprint to work off of. Other artists got better deals only bc they had the Beatles to learn from

[@BrendanJSmith]

@@prettyshinyspaghetti8332 and I'm sure Brian would've figured out some kind of solution to the problem had he not died so suddenly.

[@lucasoheyze4597]

Apple is still going now and rakes in millions annually.

[@pierrebezukov5770]

Awww... You didn't mention the Lovely Linda

[@raydavison4288]

You did good😊. I've been a Beatles fan since 1964 & I mostly agree with you tier list.

[@matthewshelbourne9560]

Hi Elliot, Thank you for this clip, I thought I would add one or two others that could be included or just worth mentioning. If you added Yoko, then I think Linda should be mentioned too, as she may not have had the same influence as Yoko, she still had an influence. The song Two Of Us was about Paul and Linda, she featured on a smaller level on at least one song and she was the unofficial photographer in the final years. Since you mentioned a few drummers who gigged with the Beatles in the early years. There is at least one other, probably the most famous one, but not as a drummer, but as a member of a comedy band that had a UK #1. He.would play drums for the Beatles when they practiced at Paul's house, he was also asked to go to Hamburg with the Beatles, but he broke his arm, and could not go. So when he broke his arm would give up drumming too. Not only could Paul's brother Michael (McGear of Scaffold and GRIMMS game) have been the Beatles drummer, he could have been able to add more in the vocal front and add more on the comedic front.

[@BeatleMark85]

Well we all know that Elliot Roberts is the 6th Beatle 😎👍

[@JoeScottish]

Did you forget Jeff Lynne? He worked on the 90s Beatles songs, worked with Paul, George and Ringo on their solo albums (including Travelling Wilburys), and his band (ELO) were one of John Lennon's favourite bands.

[@Diamond_Skies]

I'd like to disqualify him for adding his signature spaceship sounds to those 90s Beatles releases. What an ego.

[@JoeScottish]

@@Diamond_Skies Spaceship sounds? hahaha, what? ha......OK, in that case I'd like to double nominate him for bringing the Beatles into the Space Age.... :)

[@theevildalek5425]

I think pianist Roy Young is another contender for 5th Beatle as not only did he play with them in Hamburg & also on their recording of Sweet Georgia Brown (& the lost Swanee River) for Tony Sheridan, but he was also supposedly asked to join the group as The 5th Beatle by Brian Epstein but declined because he still had a contract with The Star-Club

[@snowghoul3813]

love your channel elliot, really do. the fact that when i tried searching for your channel the first thing i found was elliot roger (the incel shooter) made me have a giggle.