Fighter Pilots - Episode 6 - "Fear of Failing" 1981 BBC documentary Series complete

[@davidrendall7195]

20:45 The instructor is Flt Lt Martin Withers who would later fly the first Vulcan bombing run on Stanley airport during the Falklands War.

[@sabre22b]

The leave question was very revealing. The PO's were asking an honest, practical and relevant question that they felt was important. Shame the boss wanted to hear a question which gave him a chance to wax lyrical about Tornado. I think that summed up the RAF back then very nicely indeed.

[@kevinhoughton9134]

Typical politician palms the question off, typical hierarchy that gets his leave belittling the others.

[@magna4100]

Unlike the woke and anemic RAF of today? I know which I prefer.

[@thesceptic1018]

Full of admiration for all these people (decades later)

[@johnjones-ch5sh]

The series did show that military flying is extremely challenging and did not concentrate on the thrills and spills. Very hard indeed.

[@stormwell]

Huh, at 20:40 is Martin Withers who would become famous a couple of years later flying Vulcan XM607 down to the Falklands.

[@musicjuly3415]

Thanks for uploading these. Thoroughly enjoying it.

[@toastecmo]

The aviator at 3;45 is describing what we call compartmentalization. My father passed away when I was in USN flight school had to learn about this while trying to get through the training command.

[@andyb.1026]

At 16;10 after 10 years in the RAF & running my own Company,, I interviewed a bloke & all he wanted to know was how much Holidays He would get ~ after about 10 minutes I told Him "12 months a year" 😃😄

[@jackharrison6771]

Thanks for posting this excellent series. Pardon my ignorance, but is the Martin Withers shown here [20'42 mins] the same one who flew on the 1982 ''Black Buck' mission to bomb Falklands Airport?

[@green823jade]

It is interesting, that Alastair Stewart set out on training with the self imposed bar set too high for his abilities and in an area in which he had little or no prior experiece (in this case flying). I can relate to this from personal experience, not in flying but in my own career where perhaps an over inflated ego got in the way of my progress. I thought I was the bees knees when in fact I was not even achieving the core standard. I had created a persona in which I believed I was better than everyone else, when the reality was that I was nowhere near. To withdraw from training at ones own request is exerting an element of control and would not bee seen as failure but moreover an assertion that I was not able to achieve the extraordinary high standards that I had set myself and that to withdraw from training due to this fact is honourable.

[@cameron1975williams]

I hope RAF pilot standard remains at least as high as it was back then.

[@Biggles2498]

Even a PPL knows the difference between IMC and VMC ! Fucking Hell !

[@broadsworddannyboy1148]

Were moustaches compulsory?

[@forsdykemontague1017]

No, I couldn’t grow one if I tried back then 😂

[@davetherave28]

If he's the chap from the first episode who talked about the fighter pilot image and mentioned convertible sports cars, It's funny to see him driving out of the base his MG A having given the course a shot ! Shame it didn't work out, But with the family bereavement and stress that he was under it's understandable why.

[@Biggles2498]

+Mr Moff Do you know why he quit 3 months after Navigator Training ? He never served as a Pilot !

[@DarkpowderUK]

Nice Mini in that military convoy at approx 13mins

[@thatguyfromcetialphaV]

20:35. I wonder if Martin is a chef on the quiet, because he sure knows how to roast!

[@simonhellier7281]

Surprised being one of the elite means that leave is such a high priority! I hope he was taken aside and told to take a positive pill. Incredible he was the one who made it, being so negative.

[@JamesWilson-gw2ij]

Everyone is allowed a day off mate, particularly if you’re flying a plane

[@worldofameiso5491]

Go back to waggling your computer joystick, you have no understanding the pressure these people are under.

[@adamw2911]

@@worldofameiso5491 Yep. These guys are shattered most of the time. No doubt it's part of the toughening up and selection process. You need to be able to function under pressure and when you are tired during war. Its damn hard going during training.

[@Lord-DJ]

15:00 Guy digs own grave!

[@doraldeddy1836]

Couldn’t agree more! There are times to keep your gob shut…………………🤔 and this was one of them!

[@RobRidleyLive]

At about 17.05 is that John Nicol of Gulf War fame?

[@phill633vgs]

RobRidleyLive Don’t think so..

[@kevinhoughton9134]

No, before his time.

[@Biggles2498]

What became of Alastair Stewart ? He left Buccaneers in 1981 as Navigator so what Old Boy did he do next ?

[@Creighton-Jones]

I believe he's a Wine Merchant in Newcastle upon Tyne.

[@pauldg837]

He didn't even qualify as a navigator, he quit after only 3 months of training.

[@pinopino1086]

@@pauldg837 Unbelievable. Shows me how simple men were back in the days. Simple as in not confident, not strong mentally, not wanting it. No fighter pilots but just leisure pilots. "Are you the men or are you the mice"?!

[@jonathantumman8347]

@@pauldg837 Qualified as a Nav then withdrew. Now just retiring as a wine merchant.

[@Biggles2498]

@@jonathantumman8347 I am an ex Pilot (Commercial) but never understood as to why Navigators are seen as 2nd Class Citizens in The Officers' Mess ?

[@Biggles2498]

A Trainee Fighter Pilot doesn't even know VMC from IMC .....Good God !

[@SimDeck]

The key word you are looking for is "trainee" old chap.

[@flybobbie1449]

@@SimDeck Thought by now most ground school would have been done.

[@SimDeck]

@@flybobbie1449 You would think so but clearly not. I think we have to take into account that information unlike today was not easy to come by. They didn't have any access to anything like we do today which we pretty much take for granted.

[@flybobbie1449]

@@SimDeck I did my PPL in 1978 till 1980. I still have my old 35p Aviation Law book published by the HMSO. In there it defines vmc and imc.

[@flybobbie1449]

All lot of civvy stuff comes from RAF publications dating back to WW2.

[@SuperMageo]

I think the pilots made good points. They´ve been recruited under false pretenses about 6 weeks leave. They are the ones who are going to be doing the flying, and leave is important in a high risk job. Reactions from their superiors were, to put it mildly, arrogant

[@andyb.1026]

If you cant take a Joke,, don't join up

[@bastiaanstapelberg9018]

22.04... dat had je gelijk moeten evalueren instructeur.....je hebt toch wel onderwijskunde gehad voor je als instructeur gaat werken bij de RAF

[@flybobbie1449]

20:56, o to be a flying instructor....... 21:50 he kissed the ground....

[@adrenalinjunky31]

About 6 minutes in - Holme On Spalding Moor and Teeside - only about 60 miles apart. How the hell can a pilot make such a basic error?

[@rich4716]

The importance of morale. I wonder where it is now.

[@Smokeyham]

I'm sure their whinging about their leave time did not endear them to the superiors!

[@seltaeb9691]

Leave! In the army you took it when you could & I some years never had any at all. Whinging Blue jobs!

[@worldofameiso5491]

I wonder how far the guys who asked the questions about leave got on in the RAF? That Air Marshall is a true depiction of why a lot of people can’t be bothered in joining the forces. At the end of the day, the senior officers don’t give a monkeys about the men beneath them, they are just a means to an end.

[@Biggles2498]

Flying Cannon Fodder ?

[@magna4100]

The poor darlings.

[@JamesWilson-gw2ij]

Teaching was so negative. Just expect people to do the job on day 1. Much respect to the guys holding the MP to account, good to see the marshal covering his arse 🤣

[@Biggles2498]

James Wilson : I too thought the attitude of some of the Instructors was appalling almost as though they were trying to "weed out" the weaker Students who couldn't or wouldn't take it !

[@JimHoward]

I'm sure that when these guys see this episode all these years later they cringe a bit hearing their younger selves whinging about not getting enough leave. Poor babies. I've had the happiness of flying with the RAF, so I am confident that these student pilots grew up to be useful pilots. They do need haircuts though.

[@henryvagincourt]

Jim Howard + Interesting comment if your ex RAF, or still in. I see your a yank from your profile, says alot.

[@dave-2099]

@@henryvagincourt See his excellent F111 video out of RAF Upper Heyford. He was USAF!

[@Scoobydcs]

did stewart bottle it or not?

[@magna4100]

Yes, he bottled.

[@GT-sl7wg]

The wrong stuff…….

[@bushranger71]

For those outside the military aviation world this time pressure in training being talked about may seem strange. This policy has been borne out by years of experience whenever marginal pilots given extra consideration then struggle in the operational squadrons. We had several of these graduates fly in C130s RHS to try and get them up to an acceptable standard, was this fair and reasonable?? Sometimes hard to tell.

[@adamw2911]

The training is hard and tiring for a reason. In some situations....it can be even harder when you deploy. 99% realistically need not apply in the first place.

[@GT-sl7wg]

Oh gawd……Leave……🙄🙄🙄

[@adamw2911]

Must be frustrating for the RAF to spend lots of money on training the likes of AS only for him to withdraw again. I'll admit I probably couldn't do any better than the majority of these guys but at least fight to the last than throw the towel in.

[@SuperMageo]

He did fight to the last, in my view. He was on the start of a depression which in worst cases lead to suicide

[@adamw2911]

@@SuperMageo fair point. I guess back then there was no real awareness of mental issues.

[@SuperMageo]

@@adamw2911 Thank you for replying. The attitude to push-on was probably essential during war, but in peacetime and as our understanding of mental health has improved I think it´s different. What do you think?

[@magna4100]

A.S. was a JOKE.

[@Quadro2k]

because hes not a pilot yet............

[@orlando124431]

6 weeks leave lol

[@stewartw.9151]

The selection board made a big mistake with Alistair Stewart - and a great waste of time and money. The interesting thing to me as a civilian aviator of 30+ years and several thousand hours in command, all paid for not by government but by me alone, is the abysmal lack of knowledge about their prospective employer and in essence disinterest shown by so many of these guys at their first interviews. All pilots in the private sector I have known are passionate to a sometimes crazy extent about flying - they HAVE to fly and always have wanted to fly since a child. To fly they have therefore sacrificed much financially and personally in order to achieve their dream. Most of these guys here seem to view flying as "just a job" and had no knowledge of flight or aircraft etc. before joining up, unlike the private flyer who has read every book, magazine etc he could get his hands on. Disappointing to see that the RAF was and maybe still is likely populated by "jobsworths", if this is anything to judge by!

[@SuperOnion88]

Bear in mind that these aren't just hobbyists puttering about in a Cessna, or bus drivers watching an autopilot fly an airliner - this is military aviation. The standard required is exacting and brutal in a way that has no comparison in civil aviation. Toddling along at 30,000ft and flying in straight lines isn't the same thing as flying 100' off the deck in the blind at near mach 1 and hoping to god that it's low enough to get you past soviet air defences. The "romance of flight" is fine for recreation, but it goes out the window when you're being pushed every day to the limit of your capabilities to learn everything required to fly and fight a machine of such power and destructive potential. It's cold professionalism and coolness under intense pressure that they want from a fast jet pilot - not being "crazy about flying".

[@pinopino1086]

I agree, Stewart! Chaps who have no clue. We'll see what happens. Everything after that.... we'll see again.

[@HughJarse1968]

@@SuperOnion88 You’ve still got to know how to do everything manually in the event the autopilot fails. And it takes an amount of concentration & stamina to watch an airliner full of 300 people “fly itself” for several hours, then stay on top of an often hectic descent before landing manually at 150mph on a runway 45 metres wide. Whilst I am full of respect for military pilots, the skill of airline pilots should never be underestimated,

[@wayneschenk5512]

Have had military fast jet FOs with me in the right seat work just as hard at civilian flying as they did in a military career.

[@GT-sl7wg]

@@HughJarse1968Having done both I am in agreement! The military stuff does expand the capacity bucket …….

[@archerry6457]

Militant bunch. Borderline entitlement. I'd swap them my 2021 self-employed life with one summer week and Christmas day off.

[@magna4100]

How much money was wasted on Alister Stewart? He VWs from pilot training (probably in anticipation of failure), then wants to be a navigator...So just listen to the RAF gushing over their little "golden boy." "Oh yes, he'll make a splendid navigator." blah blah. A.S. succeeds through to the back seat of a Bucc' only to VW a SECOND time??? By this point of course this bloke has cost the taxpayer an awful LOT of money. Surely this is a damning indictment of the then OASC procedures? Surely the whole point of OASC is to weed-out weak-sisters like Stewart before the taxpayer gets raped. Disgusting.

[@carlotomass119]

From 15 50. Totally cringey embarrassing !!!