Fighting Game Moves That Are Actually Broken (With JMCrofts)

[@Gilbot9000]

LK is the Spider-Man of the FGC. You can team him up with anybody and the result is going to be amazing.

[@deathbringer9893]

i thought that would be hawkeye

[@Gilbot9000]

@@deathbringer9893 Crofts is Hawkeye

[@Sonic-oh2ly]

Well what about spider man with spiderman?! HMMMM?!!

[@SporkSlayer]

10 points for the spiderman pun.

[@gluessb]

@@Sonic-oh2ly spiderman pointing meme

[@daemonchop8498]

"as you can see in the video" with the most 240p-ass tournament footage I love BBCT🤣

[@sehtuk3953]

Jotaro has a 2 frame jab in HFTF that leads into full combos and immense damage. It's not as game breaking as something like Kakyoin's nets, but it will completely shut down certain characters. I think the Jotaro-DIO match-up is 9-1 just because s.5A stuffs anything DIO can do.

[@tammid8423]

Is it that fucking knee

[@sehtuk3953]

@@tammid8423 I was thinking of the quick jab he does in Stand On mode, but now that I look at 5A's frame data, yeah it's about the knee. +5 on block wtf

[@QuantemDeconstructor]

Mystic Trap may be incredibly nutty but Jotaro s.5A is much easier to abuse, and makes a lot of matchups Jotaro favored since he can throw it against most characters with next to no risk

[@MTT563]

To be fair, that matchup spread is canon

[@amosdeguzman9980]

​@@MTT563 Not really? Dio almost kills Jotaro multiple times.

[@heyitsmort7744]

That dog schmovement makes me wish there were an ArcSys Naruto game where Kiba is a puppet character

[@actualakio8733]

That’s literally my dream character 🥺 I wanna play him so badly in a real fighting game

[@thefgcsensei4482]

Naruto NinjaZ needs to be a game already!

[@thelastgogeta]

@@actualakio8733 Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4 has been out for nearly 20 years and Super Clash of Ninja 4 (recent fan mod of this game with English, Bloody Roar enhancements) is another option: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJCap4OEfJ6Ygbs

[@actualakio8733]

@@thelastgogeta no I mean like a traditional Naruto fighter

[@MagnumSundae27]

@@actualakio8733 I’m pretty sure that is a traditional Naruto fighting game

[@lordknightfgc]

Who should I ask next though? Also shoutouts to lord JMCrofts, check out his channel here since we did a video together there - youtube.com/@jmcrofts

[@HipH0pSamurai]

Someone with decades of experience across multiple fighting games (Ryan Hart)

[@AdamJorgensen]

The entire user-base of EventHubs so we can get Infil to build a new site indexing the hottest of the hot takes. Seriously...it would be interesting to get input from a FG game developer...

[@sliceospice]

Marlinpie!

[@reeleh1791]

Jiyuna. Also Aris lmao.

[@SeagullCrush]

Kizze Kay or Apologyman would be cool

[@free_playstation_2]

Ain't there a version of SF2 where one of E Honda's neutral jump kicks is, for some reason, a low, and it shares an animation with one of his jumping kicks which is an overhead Meaning he just has an objectively unseeable high low 50/50 if he gets the time to jump

[@jaksida300]

I also love that command grab glitch he has in one of the popular SF2 iterations where he can "store" command grabs by holding down buttons and trigger them on the negative edge.

[@michaelruss7801]

@@jaksida300 he can do that in super turbo the most commonly played version

[@itloaf]

stored oicho my beloved

[@dingusdangus9299]

I liked the part where JM just casually did Abel's one frame link like it wasn't anything.

[@clif2craf273]

18:15 Kinda giving me flashbacks of Brawl Pit side special

[@VolnuttPWNS]

I saw Yatterman-2 and immediately thought it'd be that dang robot. Lasts for far too long, attacks erratically, keeps working even when she's being combo'd, and is just overall the biggest pain in the butt. Yatter Shield is busted too though.

[@KaitouKaiju]

If I was going to pick a TVC move it we have to be Karas and his grapple hook shenanigans which comes out fast as hell, launches for a full combo, and can start an infinite

[@animetionnation]

@@KaitouKaiju see but Karas damage is ass in the Western releases of TVC so it's not too bad

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

makoto's grab is terrifying there's been a lot of times were I've been grabbed out of light jab 😂

[@animaIpath]

wtf lol

[@TheLegendaryZed]

funniest thing about Karakusa (and all command grabs in 3rd Strike) is that they can all be teched using the standard throw-input, it's just that the tech window is just-frame for command grabs. you're basically never gonna do it on purpose but it can save your life if you read a throw coming and get a little lucky

[@meddlingmage23]

I've accidentally parried a bunch of times while doing karakusa

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

@@TheLegendaryZed Really interesting I didn't even know that was a thing

[@LakeEarth]

​@@meddlingmage23yeah that's an underappreciated plus of karakusa, the motion starts from forward so it kinda comes with a built-in forward parry.

[@curtmack]

"You never have to worry about the second hit not going the right way." Master Roshi needs to share that knowledge with Strive!Anji.

[@duo317]

How'd you forget Arakune's J.D, the Jumping low that gives curse on hit

[@meleefromscratch]

I think it was in another actually broken moves video, I could be wrong tho

[@sonicboombox2496]

LK brought that one up in the vid with Sajam

[@FlightX101]

Before we start. Make sure android 21 OG command grab debuff is on the list. It literally broke the game hahah

[@doompigg7403]

Im so glad jim mentioned air hyper viper beam first when talking about overpowered moves in mvc2.

[@nakoseda4596]

I think a really broken move is Hitman's Awakening MP followup in DNF. This move has high damage, covers almost full screen (including vertical) with a disjointed hitbox, is safe on block (unless you're in the corner.... maybe?), crumples on any grounded hit (even if it's not a counter hit), and it converts almost any touch into a 60% combo minimum by serving as a (very easy to execute) combo extender. Off the crumple, you get a TOD if you have enough meter for it. Even if you don't have the meter for a follow up, it has a relatively short meter regen cooldown, so you can start a combo anyways, and have enough meter to get a nice chunk of damage anyways. If it hits you in the air, he can still combo off of it, and it's a hard knockdown. He can use it after any of his MP specials, either on hit or on whiff, so it's super flexible. It also works as a frame trap against rolls off of two of his mp specials. It won't necessarily crumple off a trade, but he can still combo off it if it trades. All this already makes for a pretty damn powerful move, maybe even broken.... but it's DNF so we haven't gotten to the fun part yet. What really pushes this move into the realm of absolutely broken are two factors in my opinion. First, He can use it off of his DP. In the launch version of the game, this was basically gapless. When he had access to this followup, his DP was not only a combo starter that set him up for oki, but it also became 100% safe on block. Depending on your character, you could attempt to stall in the air after making his DP whiff and avoid it... but outside of that, there was pretty much nothing you could do about it. Essentially, once hitman was in awakening, oki options that worked against him were cut by like 80%. If you chose to respect it and reset to neutral after a knockdown that put him into awakening, you're in a super high stress situation where any mistake leads to death, and it's still super hard to approach him since he can throw it out in neutral to make anything safe. And if you forget about it and try to punish his DP normally, you simply die. Later, it got patched to where there's a longer gap between his DP and the followup... but the options to deal with it still aren't that great. The gap is 8 frames, so you are able to DP the follow up, but most characters don't really get much reward out of that, and it burns meter. At certain ranges, you can roll past it on reaction and attempt to punish... but this has a bit of a catch to it. If your roll timing is off by a couple frames or you aren't able to roll through him, there's a pretty good chance he'll be able to block your punish putting you back at square 1 (or worse if you end up trading with him). Even if you do everything right, if he has white health, he can conversion cancel the follow up and block your punish anyways. This brings us to the 2nd reason why the move is truly broken. He doesn't have to use it. If you attempt to mash roll or DP after his dp and hitman choses not use the follow up, you're gonna get smoked. If he has you in a block string, he can choose not to use the follow up and reset his pressure for free (while saving some meter) if you respected it. The fact that he has such a powerful tool, and doesn't even have to commit to using it makes this move pretty fucking crazy in my opinion. The only consistent counter play to Hitman's awakening MP follow up is to watch his health bar and cut your combos short so you don't drop him below the 30% HP awakening threshold. That way, he doesn't have access to it, and he dies on your next touch anyways. But should you put Hitman into awakening, the round is basically up to the Hitman to lose. So overall, this move has absurd range, kills you if you get hit by it, also kills you sometimes if you trade with it, is safe on block, can be used in neutral, combos, and defense, is a (lethal) frame trap, and it turns dealing with his DP into a gamble where you die if you're wrong.

[@Slayerthecrow]

A personal favorite move from SFA: Birdie's Bull Revenger. Easy to make (2 QCF + Punch), it has a good distance, jumps over projectiles, is fast, is a grab and can't blocked, only downside is that is hard to combo.

[@monchete9934]

There's one broken move that impressed me because the whole concept is funny. And it's in Art of Fighting 3 of all games and belongs to the boss, Wyler. And it's his JAB. So this is a 4 frame jab (fastest in the game) that is a good anti-air, has good damage for a jab, launches on counterhit but it has a fairly long recovery. So what's the catch? Well, it turns out you can cancel the jab INTO ITSELF so the recovery barely matters and it opens up a super damaging counterhit combo that is just using jab to juggle the opponent and melting their HP bar in the process. The character is so braindead you can play decently just by using jab and not any of his other specials (which are good but pale in comparison to the jab). Thankfully, he has no lows nor a super so he isn't the best character in the game, but he gets close

[@maxmercurythemm827]

Yeah, Wyler took some fierce jab steroids. iirc he gets 70% off a CH jab just by mashing more jabs? Not sure about the number.

[@lot8113]

The one from kasunoko vs capcom is kinda like a melee shine: it reflects, its fast, impossible to whiff punish, very spammable and you can combo off of it in the right situation

[@caelan5301]

Blackheart is a pretty funny character because usually you might have a character with a bunch of good moves that all do different things, but here you have a bunch of not very good moves and 1 normal that just does absolutely everything.

[@mythosinfinite6736]

JHK: The Character

[@MarcelVincent]

this was a great video... when i was a kid blackheart air heavy kick was the first move i ever rage about.. long before i got serious about getting good FR FR at fighting games.

[@Omnislasher5]

I felt it in my soul when you mentioned that Koromaru move because you can not touch ken and if you try to punish koromaru you get sniped by ken

[@SumThingFawful]

"So you've been grabbing by Beowulf"

[@MoonlitRose101]

Ky's Greed sever from XRD. An overhead that, while slightly slow, fucking groundbounces, can be looped pretty easily, and has SO many active frames

[@maxmercurythemm827]

Ky's had Greed Sever since vanilla XX and I don't think it had that many changes since outside of groundbouncing when those started to be a thing. The worst is, the reason he even has Greed Sever is because his overhead in GGX, Crescent Slash, was better. It was faster (except on Potemkin, Greed Sever hits him on frame 18 bc he's big, Crescent Slash hit on frame 22 for everyone), hit ridiculously high for how low Ky stayed, but especially, due to not having an obvious sound clue and movement like Greed Sever, it was unseeable by comparison because Ky didn't take off the floor until frame 16, and didn't make a sound until later than that. And I could say that the 15-frame overhead he had in GG1 is even stronger, but since it's GG1, it's punishable by an infinite on hit so you had other stuff to worry about like getting checkmated by his IK even if you don't just take the L. So, yes, Greed Sever has 14 active frames in Xrd, but in AC it had 15, and what was there before was far worse to deal with.

[@MoonlitRose101]

@maxmercurythemm827 you right, you right.

[@gcavrubio]

Ten-rai-ha is traumatic. If you get KOd by this move, you start the next round defending the mixup from the previous round.

[@trippersigs2248]

That Yattershield is actually disgusting.

[@sergioalvarez5193]

Great vid as always LK! Just wanted to let u know that JMCroft's voice was a bit high in comparison to yours or the music so it made it kinda hard to watch specially with a headset on. Apart from that I loved discovering these broken moves and the "podcast" kind of format of u two talking

[@deckbuildercassen]

How did Jinpachi's Reverse Hug from TTT2 not make the list? The game was literally beta tested for 8+ months in korean/japanese arcades by high-level players during an era where Namco actually gave a shit about the competitive community and listened to feedback, and yet somehow that move made it into the final version of the game. To this day, scholars are still trying to figure out how that was even possible.

[@Ramsey276one]

REVERSE HUG??? Oh, Tag Tournament 2. Haven’t played it, and apparently I am LUCKY…

[@cosmocha6774]

to be fair i don't think LK or JM are particularly huge tekken fans so it probably just didn't cross their minds or they don't even know about it to begin with

[@lordflashheart3741]

@@cosmocha6774 It might also be that it was never really broken at all. Was it good? Yes, it did just about everything except being fast and giving pressure, but it certainly was nowhere near broken. If you want to mention Tekken there's plenty broken shit to choose from, but this isn't it.

[@maxmercurythemm827]

Jinpachi's move was very powerful, yes. But just the T5 version was far worse because it was a +60-something guard break iirc. I don't even know if he was legal for play in DR.

[@mibbzx1493]

Gotta add Shiva’s stomp from mk11 too. That move was the cheapest i seen in awhile. She jumps off-screen into an unblockable and it really messed the neutral game of mk11 when it first came out. There was a guy who was supposed to win a tournament by spamming that move and changed his name to “why would NRS do this” to get NRS attention to display how cheap and busted the move was and he got disqualified because of his name. He most definitely was going to win but he intentionally made himself a villian for the sake of the community.

[@yaaaaj8690]

Yessir, more collabs

[@dmtrip7965]

I just realized what your pfp was lmao, why did you choose it ?

[@tearitup5864]

For DBFZ, you guys mentioned Roshi B, and GT spirit bomb but I’m hella surprised LK didn’t mention vanilla labcoat debuff, what the fuck were the devs thinking?

[@keybladeapologist.1131]

Actually yeah it like made multiple veterans leave. At least they removed that

[@affinity601]

I feel like umvc3 deserves a few spots. Spiral swords and zero clones were stupid

[@mcsquid6861]

king df1 from tekken 1 is an infamous example of a stupid ahh move. +9 on hit. pretty good. +93 on block :).

[@maxmercurythemm827]

Thought it was only +6 with forced crouch on hit.

[@kingsman5121]

Kims Ex Hangetsuzan in Kof Xiii is something else You thought Ex Crack Shoot at the launch of kof xv was stupid this is even stupider It’s 11 frames Goes very far You get a full combo when you hit it And it’s +1 on block because why not Kim was already insane in 13 but this move elevates him even more Pro players threw this move out at the start of the round it’s that good

[@bruis1527]

Is this the beginning of the collaboration arc?

[@jwoodsjr123sgameroom5]

"They Never Let Gief be good anymore." - Jmcroft Sf6 Zangief: "Let Me introduce You to MUSCLE POWER!!!!"

[@dragon-id5uj]

interested in the bts of this. discord, trading off screen share, with host capturing via OBS; then chop it up with overlays in post?

[@carb1290]

C-Roa orbs charged and uncharged. TK charged orbs are really dumb

[@keybladeapologist.1131]

The enemy is still here he just has competition now

[@UnusuallyLargeCrab]

JM is mixed way too loud in this video

[@kk-995]

They also collabed on JMCroft's channel, you guys should check it out

[@assymptoad4989]

Your mic volume is a bit low on this one especially compared to JMCrofts

[@Lulumix3000]

What's the first song playing in the background ?

[@meddlingmage23]

Vergil spiral swords and helm breaker come to mind. If you mean truly broken, Petshop from Jojo.

[@zenkaichi]

Loving the collab btw, the normies can see some anime jank and weebs can see some gentlemens jank super cool.

[@giannis_tar]

Oh god... Of course it's Koromaru on the thumbnail

[@grimedoc8180]

Ah yes! Vanilla SF4 Gief's lariat! You struggling to complete the time/survival trials? Pick Gief, spam lariat! Trying to get the achievement for beating Arcade on the hardest setting? Pick Gief, spam lariat! Wanna attack your opponent, without fear of getting ultra combo'ed? No problem, lariat beats most of them out!

[@moe3235]

LKs knowledge is crazy

[@lockedparadox]

Never seen anybody play black heart tbh, need to go back and watch some gameplay

[@livingfire1]

Beowolf in skullgirls. Once he grabs you you're done full hp gone, and you better pray that he drops the combo

[@coolboyyo654]

I constantly think of that vid where he grabs a robo-fortune and the rest is him ToDing her in slow-mo

[@HellecticMojo]

So frustrating to watch.

[@SynderFGC]

Damn, I was waiting to see MK9 Kabal on here lol

[@atillaozturk5834]

c-roa 214 series not here?

[@connorprovines9417]

Smh, #1 on this list should be SSBM, Luigis dash attack. An actually broken move (They F-'d up the coding)

[@chaselewis5372]

No ribcage from Izanami? what

[@alexvs6160]

SSF2T Flying Barcelona ?

[@Trigun_Bebop]

Can you explain your profile pic?

[@pochoboto]

I'm surprised no umvc3 foot dive in here lol

[@KaitouKaiju]

Which one because there's like half a dozen worth mentioning

[@NamekJedi]

Always cool to see the goats collab

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

Throwing demons is so crazy to me man I should really try to play more mvc2

[@dorkasaurus_rex]

Zero level 3 buster in UMVC3.

[@NeoBoneGirl]

No Secret Garden or Pretty Maze, LK keeping Millia off the hit list so that ArcSys doesn't remember why they made her ass in Strive

[@lordknightfgc]

Pretty maze was in the first one

[@james0644]

@@lordknightfgc the first one?

[@lordknightfgc]

I started a playlist, I got this idea as a follow up vid I made in July or so - kzbin.info/www/bejne/an2ohmh5i51mmNE if you're interested

[@NeoBoneGirl]

@@lordknightfgc Oh, this was a sequel vid? I thought there was a distinct lack of GG but if you weren't taking things you already mentioned then I guess it makes sense

[@lordknightfgc]

yeah I'm turning this into a series, trying to be the change I want to see by doing collabs with fgc creators 🙏🏾

[@WhiteKnuckleRide512]

Lordknight is impossible to hear in this video, what’s up with that

[@ajvladmir2481]

KL always has been quiet in his videos, it's just JMcrofts is not balanced out so he sounds a lot louder in comparison

[@Ramsey276one]

Thumbnail: but… He GOOD BOI! Q_Q :-P happy doggo

[@yungskeleton-wotvffbe8939]

I miss when converting from stray hits was a huge skill.

[@deathbringer9893]

the mic quality is perfect

[@slamurai_jack]

BBCF Izanami ribcage pre nerf deserves an honorable mention IMO. Shit was whack.

[@h2_]

capping from jmcrofts very first item?

[@jonnyturtleneck7153]

These abbreviations are too much

[@johnsavage8128]

Lame, i don't wanna watch a 15 second clip from youtube on repeat while you dub it over, LK. Show us why something is wild. Boot up the game and demonstrate like JMCrofts was doing. I still like the channel, don't think it's just blind hate coming your way. This simply came across as lazy.

[@lordknightfgc]

some of the games I used you can't get easily unfortunately. For example, the only way I can show Roshi B at it's peak is with footage because of patches, persona 4 arena vanilla is not on modern consoles. I would LOVE if I could have real copies of everything since I do retrospectives, it makes some retrospectives hard too because you can't get them really unless you use "creative" methods. Edit - also for some games, they let you select the version but not all of them which is pain. The Halloween vid on Valk was supposed to be on Chrono Phantasma 1.0 Valk, which isn't on modern consoles or steam. You can get extend with version select, but the only other option is 1.1. Regardless, I do want to try to find away because I do think about this quite a bit 😭

[@johnsavage5279]

I hadn't considered that the version specific issues you referenced were unavailable, so I was off base there, my bad. In hindsight it's obvious since you even booted up persona. I'm sure you'll dial things in as appropriate. Best of luck doing so.

[@lordknightfgc]

Nah feedback is always appreciated!!

[@kylekiske_]

"later arcsys games added stuff like upper body invuln" he doesn't know that arksys has been doing this shit since like 2000 🤣💀 Blazbabby behavior

[@lordknightfgc]

I misspoke, I wanted to be more specific about the attribute system. They added body property because of Coup Droit

[@Mene0]

algorithm

[@jones1926]

😂

[@lellis4778]

W

[@chimericalical]

Jmcrofts is much more tolerable when his face isn’t taking up 1/3 of the screen

[@katsupsauce]

MY BOI BLACKHEART!