Fighting Games that DESERVED the Criticism

[@lazybacon7520]

The on-disc DLC for Street Fighter x Tekken was made worse by the fact that Capcom USA explicitly warned them at a meeting that the game WILL be hacked by players to obtain the content. Capcom Japan's response was literally "Why would they hack the game? That's illegal!"

[@Brandonweifu]

Western fans:yall gon learn TUDAY!

[@myquietreviews]

Yep 😂😂😂

[@lunaticmode638]

@@Brandonweifu "welcome to the REAL world"

[@MrDibara]

Me, a Brazilian: "You ever been to my hood, buddy?!" 🤣

[@V4Now]

I don't know if that's honest naivety or exceptional stupidity?

[@Ty__Rants]

Multiversus had the audacity to come out, win a game award for best fighting game, lose 95% of its player base, then be like "oh uhhh, sike it was a beta all along" and then re-release it, only for it to bomb again.

[@CristoAlba-l1z]

not only rerelease it but rerelease it in a worse state.

[@flashergoldpower15]

Remember, not even trying to defend them. Because honestly, they had no choice but Warner brother is their boss. I still don't know why the higher-ups even got involved in the first place with that Beta. When it should've been out the same exact way? Upon re-release, and it didn't And it f***** sucks for those devs, because they put their hard work into this and the fact that they have to monetize it via first beta, was even baffling in itself.

[@sorcerethan]

It was always said to be a beta, I'm 99% sure

[@CristoAlba-l1z]

@sorcerethan yeah but beta doesn't mean anything anymore. Gor the longest time even when fortnite chapter 2 came out it was "still in beta." Everyone assumed they would eventually just release the game in a full state over time.

[@handless7677]

I was there both times, for both releases and man the online was ass.

[@ShouVertica]

SFV not having an arcade mode on launch was such incredible laziness that it boggles my mind, especially when Capcom arcade modes are generally 1-2 voice lines and a still image after beating the bosss.

[@severeerror52]

It didn't even have a full Vs AI mode at launch which is just insane lol

[@ryanm.8720]

'BlazBlue: Cross Tag Battle' also didn't have an Arcade mode at launch (although it's implied that there was intended to be one, since the offline lobby has three arcade cabinets that can't be interacted with), and still doesn't have one years later.

[@dmtmediabrothers]

It didnt have that because the the they had to rebuild the whole game because the contractors that had build it did it wrong.

[@ShouVertica]

@dmtmediabrothers I don't buy the excuses, I've played the most jank games ever made and they had arcade mode.

[@DongsMBM]

it didnt even have key remapping. as someone who plays fighting games on keyboards, I had to use autohotkey to remap my keyboard to play the damn game. I lost all my interest way before they added that function into the game

[@000mjd]

ironically KOF XIV saved SNK the game sold so well that that let SNK go with other projects like SNK Heroines, Samsho, and KOF XV you can say we are getting the return of Fatal Fury thanks to that game

[@jod.t2941]

an arab sheikh and kof all star saved snk.

[@000mjd]

@@jod.t2941 KOF All Star waa a thing of Netmarble and the whole Saudi purchase happened just a few time before KOF XV launch

[@soliduswasright678]

@@jod.t2941 It's been well documented that KOF 14 and Samsho 2019 saved SNK. The Saudi deal didn't even exist during those games developments.

[@tintor2]

@@soliduswasright678 Yeah, Yasuyuki Oda directed KOF14 and produced 15. Oda was actually more famous for Fatal Fury as early KOF was directed by Masanori Kuwasashi and mostly Toyohisa Tanabe. However, when the company went bankrupt in the late 90s Tanabe went to Dimps alongside Oda. Fatal Fury was cancelled since Garou bombed while KOF was codeveloped by another developed for 2001

[@meswil]

​@@jod.t2941 bra that deal happened later than even kof15 stop spreading lies.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

"then there's MVCI, a game that looked so bad that I paid thousands of dollars to make it look like the previous game" edit: can we talk about how incredibly bad DOA6's meter implementation was though? jesus.

[@randominternetsurfersurfin7595]

What was so bad about it?

[@Arcademan09]

I haven't heard anyone else talk about it, all I know it didn't sell, what happened?

[@thechugg4372]

​@@Arcademan09theres literally a series of videos called "what happened?" That goes in depth about this. Main issue with DOA6 is that they wanted the game to appeal to eSports and not their casual fanservice fanbase, so they lost their fanbase and no one wanted to play this weird title.

[@knarrow0222]

​@@thechugg4372Not to mention the fact that the way to unlock costumer was a DISGUSTING grind and the infamous Hair color fiasco.

[@DarkSymphony777]

@@thechugg4372 honestly weird max did not mention that in the video

[@kanan6802]

"I blame WB" is the perfect way to describe a lot of things that have come out/cancelled by them in the past few years

[@DaikiPT]

DNF is a case study on how important community management and clear communication are. I feel like it's stretched content release cycle isn't even a big deal, it really boiled down to how silent they were regarding what was coming next, the few times they did talk were way too far apart and came in too late, most had already moved on.

[@dhayris160]

That game had some balance issues at launch, and lots of people weren't fans of blocking a jab and then proceeding to get guard broken and TOD'D, or baiting a reversal, getting punished by a safe on block followup that does mad chip damage and as i mentioned, IS SAFE, and dying. I loved that game, too. I had to go somewhere for a month, came back, game was completely dead.

[@saterdei]

@@dhayris160 I played it for 2-3 months on release, I learned all of the characters and settled on Crusader. It felt like a really good guess game, with big normals and fat punishes. My worst enemies were Wind Breaker, because he had too many tools at his disposal and probably Ghostblade, because his reach and speed were just phenomenal, even compared to the rest of the roster. That said, Wind Breakers were predictable in spamming their moves and I learned enough of Ghostblades by playing against the top players... Which was my main issue with the game, its player base was small enough for me, with ~200 wins, to be fighting the top ten (I am in no way THAT competent, I'd only win 1/10 matches at that point). It got even worse afterwards, because I wouldn't be able to get any matches for a really long time, and at some point, I just stopped trying... Here's hoping the new Fatal Fury catches on, I need a fighting game for 2025!

[@kazkatgamer6722]

Don't forget to add bbtag to that same problem. Releasing all its dlc within the first month, invincible DP assist call and team gorby running rampant and we didn't get updates FOR MONTHS... It's like the game was ultimately made to quiet BlazBlue fans who kept asking for another game. Now I love bbtag but it def had MAJOR problems.

[@flashergoldpower15]

​@@kazkatgamer6722hm, interesting. As a game who only played it once and not a lot more often than persona 4 arena and ultimax, I wouldn't have known those changes at all

[@goranisacson2502]

From what I've heard, that's just how Neoxon, the people behind the license, work. Rumour say that DNF, the original game, practically never do any pre-patch hype or communication. For the years this game has been active they basically just go "fuck you patch / new content dropped" and then that's it. And because they call shots on communications they imported that way into the fighting game, and that... did not work out for them, suffice to say.

[@JAnne_Bonne]

Feels like WB’s higher-ups in general (like, not just games) absolutely never look at the big picture.

[@shakes5847]

WB's higher ups are only concerned with gutting IP that isn't making them tons of money and even mildly sucessful ones are being setup to fail. The company is a disaster and in freefall and it is very much intentional.

[@Pholadis]

that's something that happens in so many god damn big corporations these days especially, they just don't think ahead. make us profit *now* or you're fired

[@randominternetsurfersurfin7595]

The only things the higher ups see are the mountains of the debt the company is in from all its terrible mergers.

[@jaidora]

Yeah, WB is drunk on something like power, greed, or both because they've been making bad decisions after another.

[@ExeErdna]

Oh yeah this is true, WB is extremely out of touch because they legit remove stuff people like. They keep CW shows up at a MASSIVE LOST. Their Hollywood movies are constant flops, they disrespect what gave them EVERYTHING The DCAU and Looney Toons

[@joaovitorpontesdossantos5548]

After watching Thorgi's KOF retrospective you start to overlook XIV' graphics and respect the effort the SNK team had to make it a thing.

[@RatedShadowXrd]

Oh hey another fellow thorgi follower

[@joaovitorpontesdossantos5548]

@RatedShadowXrd 🤝

[@DarkOverlord96]

Oh so NOW you people overlook graphics if the game itself is good?

[@thekid8224]

I completely agree I don't think kof14 should be on this list either. Kof14 was literally a do or die moment for SNK they were crawling back from a second bankruptcy and kof14 was literally a if this fails we're done moment. They literally build the engine from scratch and 3D graphics wasn't their strenght but felt the pressure of having to move in that direction while having a short time frame to make the game. Max needs to give SNK/KOF14 some grace they weren't in the same position as these other devs/companies when making KOF14.

[@joaovitorpontesdossantos5548]

@@DarkOverlord96 Man when this game launched i was 9/10 years old, i wasnt a fighting game fan yet (i was colecting Skylanders).

[@animustewshineotakusauce]

DOA5's "crazy" of amount DLC came out slowly over the entire lifespan of the game from Vanilla to Last Round, the reason why DOA6 felt so genuinely bad was that they were impatient and decided to shove mountains and mountains of DLC out at the very start when the game launched.

[@mrghost9267]

Go compare the season passes from DOA5LR to the ones from DOA6 and you’ll see a drop in quantity and quality, DOA5LR season pass 1 had 4 different costume sets while DOA6 had 2. Also remember when they sold packs of old costumes that wouldn’t be included in season pass.

[@Ability-King-KK]

Which one was it that you literally spend over $1,000 to get ALL of the DLC?

[@TheRedMage01]

@@Ability-King-KK Both, DOA5 is about $1,500, DOA6 is about $2,500 for all the DLC plus you have to pay to change characters hair colour, You can see why Koei and Team Ninja went and made a gacha release of Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 since it will make them a lot more money

[@dusthymn8187]

Dead or Alive 6 went through so many controversies, im thinking of how many times they changed the hair color rule and what the currency got you, i think when it first came out you had to pay like a dollar for every different color but they patched it to if you buy one color you own every color for that character. Dead or Alive 6 also had a lot of it’s purists turn on the game pre-launch because a lot of the default skins were toned down in the sexual/revealing department. I feel like this was a smart decision since DOA was aiming for a more respected fanbase in esports, and the fanboys didnt wait for the dlc to roll out which was just as sexual in nature as the previous installments. It’s just a shame all of this stupid stuff is attached to the game’s short lifespan because you can tell there was supposed to be 4 more dlc characters, and the actual gameplay was decent.

[@depressedcorn37]

COVID fucked Soul Calibur VI's chances, they were putting money into a world tour tournament scene and then with that shit for four years? Yeah, rip.

[@yoshimallow]

It still basically had the Budget of like, 5 dollars.

[@Sir_Robin_of_Camelot]

No budget, trash netcode and load times, scrubby RPS mechanic, customization that fucked with both visibility and gameplay in ranked (it literally allowed height and size to affect hitboxes for customs). COVID is pretty low on the list.

[@chuntsechien]

Basically the same as Samsho4

[@ArynWellspring]

If you were a video game during covid that couldn’t succeed, YOU messed up

[@AverageSavage_1]

​@Sir_Robin_of_Camelot Regardless of all that it, was still well received, it sold 2mill and it had a great tournament run as well. Then, its momentum was stop by covid.

[@glitchz1]

Max doesnt touch on it but MvCi story mode is ASS. People wanted a story mode (its a big reason NRS games sell so well) and Capcom dropped the ball twice with SFV and MvCi's terrible story mode. Made worse by the fact that 3 of the story characters (Black Panther, Monster Hunter and Sigma) were DLC.

[@ShatteredPedestal7]

Does he not remember that the demo for MvCI was the story mode and it was a big reason people hated it more?

[@FGenthusiast0052]

I don't think they wanted to touch much into that aspect, considering the mod came live, and want people to play it. The overview on it is very small compared to the other games

[@vincentfalcone9218]

I actually thought it was somewhat decent. Certainly much better than SFV's atrocious story mode.

[@ShaunInce123]

I'll take the MVCI story mode over the SFV story mode. SFV's story is so boring.

[@landonhulett2119]

Yeah, the story of MVCI was trash, but the merged world of Marvel and Capcom is honestly a suitable idea for the series. One world I would change is X-Gard. Doesn't fit in my opinion. I would merge Asgard with Ameterasu's world of Nippon from Okami.

[@ibrahimahmed4657]

I love how the tekken moveset was tranferred in street fighter x tekken. Capcom did a great job in terms of the design and moves of characters

[@drunkenbarfight]

Just sucks we'll never see the vice versa in Tekken x Street Fighter, only glimpse we got was Akuma striking the fear of god into everyone in T7 with his 2D bullshit

[@Skuntac]

Jin, Kazuya, Jack 6 and Ogre was some of the most fun I've had in street fighter ever. High level Jin and Kazuya play was a beautiful sight, they were so beast. It's a shame so many people missed out

[@dusthymn8187]

@@drunkenbarfightso i didnt make up all of that tekken x street fighter hype? I was like 15 when the rumors started

[@ProxyDoug]

@@dusthymn8187 Both were announced at the same time and they had a render of Ryu on screen to showcase Tekken X SF, and you can find some leaks of the model online. Harada also stated several times the project was moving forward before soft confirming that the project is pretty much dead, but he lamented cause he said the studio did a great job with the female character models, which shows they actually went far into production.

[@MrFutago87]

To some extent I understand the criticism on KOF14's graphics. But when you know what happened behind the scenes and how the game had to be made on a shoestring budget, with very little time and no engine other than the one the team could ducttape together during devlopment you can understand why it looked the way it did, it was just the best they could do at that time.

[@theozillanuke8281]

Mortal Kombat is virtually unknown in Japan. I would not expect the first Japanese game crossover with Mortal Kombat to be from Capcom, SNK, or ARCS. It would probably be something made by a small indie dev that no one has ever heard of. Also there's no one to push for that in Japan on the WB side. WB just has a publishing house in Japan. They don't make games. More than that only the first two MKs were even released in Japan. From what I remember they didn't do very well in Japan and became niche titles. They apparently tried to have MK 11 released in Japan but the Japanese banned it after they got a look at it.

[@pppp-by1bq]

Yes, the idea of a collaboration between SF and MK is absolutely not good for each other. SF doesn't fit into the story and atmosphere of MK, and most MK fans don't want that either. And Japan, JRPG fanbase aside, is strictly opinionated when it comes to action game design, and they value game design more than story and characters. Capcom has a lot of great action game IPs outside of SF, so it's quite understandable that there will be a lot of fans who will be offended just by the thought of having to dedicate valuable resources to MK, which has nothing to do with them. Why should they do something that ignores the Japanese fanbase?

[@pppp-by1bq]

Mortal Kombat is not banned in Japan, they have just decided not to release it in Japan because it is not popular enough to make another version that complies with the Japanese CERO.

[@theozillanuke8281]

@@pppp-by1bq Not all of MK just MK 11 for some reason? I really don't know why just 11. Maybe WB just tried to release that one unchanged in Japan for some reason (I mean we all know now that they're stupid, so it really wouldn't be a surprise.)

[@harrisonkyle3029]

@@pppp-by1bq MK11 is banned for its ultraviolence and I believe MKOne is too. Which is also why MK crossing over with Street Fighter is a TERRIBLE idea. We can't just look at "they're both 2D fighters" as rational for a crossover without considering everything else. MK's whole thing is ultraviolence, and we have seen what a disaster that is when they have to water that down (MK vs. DC). Tekken may be a 3D fighter, but in tone and atmosphere it is much closer to Street Fighter than either are to Mortal Kombat. MK could cross over with Killer Instinct, but that's about it.

[@ubergamer2010]

SFxT was so sad... had they just not included the stupid gem system or the disc-locked DLC characters, the game itself would've been considered enjoyable! I genuinely had so much fun with my Lili/Xiaoyu team but Capcom was at their greediest during this era 😭

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

Unfortunately the gameplay at launch still had a lot wrong that caused it to not be liked among tournament players besides all the dlc crap. Lifebars would shake and jiggle like crazy making it hard to tell how much damage you're actually doing. Most systems and combos were HEAVILY scaled meaning you'd barely do enough damage to kill the opponent before they tag out and stall you for game. Super animations also didn't pause the timer making Lame-Out X Tekken even more of a problem. Other characters like Cammy had the opposite problem where they could easily lock you down with their jab or other busted normals. And while subjective, the game looked ugly to a lot of people. Character models were nice but the stages had some of the most garish and unappealing colour schemes and lighting in 2.5d fighters.

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero to add to the gameplay, don't forget Pandora AKA "press X to die"

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

@Triforce_of_Doom oh my God I completely blocked Pandora from my mind. Absolutely the worst comeback mechanic in any game ever deigned lol

[@MisterAzathoth]

​@@NeutralGuyDoubleZeroThat weird color/texture scheme is permanently burned into my retinas. Couple that with the genuinely painful custom colors people would make online and you wind up with an unappealing visual that you can almost taste.

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero the worst part is a "sacrifice a character to power up the other" could work. The buffs were just not worth it & you only got TEN FUCKING SECONDS before an auto-loss.

[@aidenquinn19975]

Blazblue Crosstag Battle had potential with how simple and dumb fun it could be. What a disappointment

[@gamemax1049]

Remember me why there's RWBY characters and not Guilty Gear's again?

[@Pickoffarwim]

Yeah a pretty boring crossover roster imo didn't help

[@oreore949]

​@@gamemax1049So that I would buy the game, get into fighting games, and eventually become a regular member of the FGC, competing in tournaments and supporting locals, etc. BBTAG having RWBY characters brought in a huge audience from outside of the realm of fighting games, and we were extremely lucky that the game was a simple enough game to learn while showing the cool parts of the FGC. It's the game that got me and my friends to go to EVO, and was the first game we followed character releases on. Being in the EVO crowd in 2019 and singing Red Like Roses for the crowd karaoke is a core memory for me, and then that same event was the announcement trailer for Guilty Gear Strive (unnamed at the time). Don't dismiss the power of guest fighters.

[@airrhearrt2865]

Even though I love BBTAG, I definitely see all the flaws it has. My biggest complaint was that they never eventually completed the cast of the main 3 fighting games in the crossover. That and that they never added more RWBY characters.

[@ryanm.8720]

@@Pickoffarwim We didn't even get Taokaka.

[@MarinetteDupainCheng564]

Street Fighter X Tekken was a thing, because Ono and Harada are close friends. one day at a bar, they talked about how it would be if Tekken charactes would fight Street Fighter characters. I remember this, because Ono was invited in a german Videogame show. And they asked him, how they came up with this idea.

[@standheaykic66]

I believe the project of TekkenxSF were already around 20-30% when they scrapped it, and we only catch some of the glimpse in T7. There's a theory Fahkumram is Sagat meant to be, and Lidia is supposed to be Makoto. Also, my wild guess, Eliza is Morrigan as guest character in TekkenxSF, since they originally planned to bring Morrigan in T7 instead of Akuma.

[@yrh002b8]

Yup, been telling people that as well. SFxT only happened because both were buddy and now Ono ain't there anymore.

[@MarinetteDupainCheng564]

@@standheaykic66 makes sense. Even though, Lidia has a Hitomi from Dead or Alive feeling to me. My favorite DoA character. With Eliza... Yeah, even thought Eliza debuted in Tekken Revolution.

[@MarinetteDupainCheng564]

@@yrh002b8 sadly, the last thing i heard from Tekken x street Fighter was at that EVO moment.

[@SquidwardProfilePic]

I wanted DnF duel to be great, but people literally figured out the game day 1, and usually there’s so much more to get into after day 1, but DnF duel really was not that complex, it felt dry after a week.

[@truindividual]

Yeah. I wanted to buy the full game but after the beta, it just felt like..that was it. It offered really nothing else

[@IzraelGraves]

It was a fighting game made by a group that were only known for a side scrolling beat em up that they served as an MMO; both genres really lack diversity, its just specific comboes and key rotations. They thought they had the skill because they operated a fighting adjacent game, but its not the same.

[@Th3Sh1n1gam1]

Swift master chipping you for 1/4th your hp while mixing you up was madness.

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

It was fun for a while, they should've introduced a combo breaker because I was trapped in the Inquisitor's wheel of death for what felt like centuries.

[@meteor22]

It was also pretty barebones for content. I loved it for what it was but ya...it kinda withered away and died sadly. I still play it from time to time.

[@orlanzo2621]

I actually blame “fans” for KOF 14. The game didn’t deserve hate because the gameplay was really fun, it had a huge roster, etc. The visuals were bad simply because SNK couldn’t afford to make HI Res 2-D sprites anymore BECAUSE “fans” didn’t buy KOF 13 when it initially came out. The game was gorgeous, fun to play, had excellent animation, etc but it didn’t sell well and since SNK put so much time, effort, and money into the game it hurt them a ton financially, which is WHY they had to resort to budget level 3-D for KOF 14. It’s always been frustrating to me that people complained about 14’s graphics but a lot of those same people didn’t buy 13, which was one of the best looking 2-D fighting games of all time and vastly made up for everything KOF 12 lacked.

[@ShatteredPedestal7]

KoF 13 was more impressive than MK9 and SFIV, but because it was 2D lots of people handwaved it. That was in the early 2010’s where people were in the naive thought process of 3d=Evolution.

[@Pickoffarwim]

@@ShatteredPedestal7that still is sort of a thing tbh

[@WormyJester8]

The only graphical problem SNK had at the time of XIV was the lighting, there are mods for DOA6 that replace Kula and Mai's models with their KOFXIV version and they look on par with the DOA's roster.

[@iilunatiik96]

I’m pretty sure that almost everyone agrees that it was the horrible online experience that made KOF fall off. At the very least it didn’t help the game.

[@BlackKusanagi]

I bought XIII and I loved it. It sucks that it got the shit that it did ;_;

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

There's no price tag you can slap on a fatality that will ever surpass the sheer greed of on disk dlc. It wasn't even good dlc, I want to play Mega Man not Mega Middle Aged Man.

[@pheonixrisingx2560]

That terrible DLC roster needs to be studied because the Sony and Capcom characters for the most part was a miss. We had street fighter and tekken. Bandai Namco and Capcom. Making guest characters should have been easy as hell for that game. Pac man was fine as the weird pick, Cole the cool interesting pick. And everything else? Just a bunch of bad decisions.

[@samhainvt]

There was concept art that got leaked of Bad Box Art Mega Man where he had a completely different look that was honestly much more appealing than what they ended up going with, and I imagine if they had just stuck with the concept design at the onset the overall reception would have been drastically different

[@DarkOverlord96]

That's because he's supposed to be a joke, it's not actually Mega Man, just the American dude who posed as him in the first game's American box art. At first they thought the Mega Man team (which included Keiji Imagine) were going to dislike the idea... but turns out they actually liked it so that's why he's in the game.

[@DarkOverlord96]

@pheonixrisingx2560 What are you talking about? The other guest characters were just Toro and Kuro and they were in the base roster. Or are you seriously calling Street FIGHTER and Tekken characters like Sakura and Lars "guests"? God, I swear SFxTK haters have never ceased to be dumb since 2013.

[@pheonixrisingx2560]

@DarkOverlord96 A bad inside joke that didn't go well smh.

[@DarkOverlord96]

DOA6 toning down the fanservice at first and the whole "Core Values" fiasco at EVO didn't help matters either.

[@meganinten0078]

Indeed When Koei Tecmo felt shame about the identity of their series and try to remove it/toned down to appeal to more players At the end of the day, they appealed nobody Long time fans felt betrayed (I don't blame them) Hope that Koei Tecmo have learned their lesson

[@yrh002b8]

The fgc shame it, that's why. Not everyone of course but most look at it as a joke.

[@gtsgreatteacherscathach5550]

Also the fact at times it feels more serious than previous instalments especially with inclusion of blood and bruises. Also also they made the stages kinda boring compared to the early games and you couldn't do crazy transitions to the next part.

[@blove88]

While that was a factor, it's a shallow drop in the bucket to alot of the more egregious problems that game had (the smaller roster, dropping modes and features that were staples like Tag mode, that awful story mode and the aggressive nickel and diming on cosmetics and customization)

[@lalo2513]

DOA would still be great without the gooning but it wouldn't sell as much, sadly.

[@soliduswasright678]

KOF 14's existence is a miracle in and of itself. Putting 14 next to complete messes like MVCI and SFXT kinda annoys me ngl. 80 percent of the people who say KOF 13 is their favorite have never actually played it, lol. Its SNK's 3rd Strike as far as 'fake fans' go. KOF 14 looked like ass but graphics are so incredibly overrated that "KOF 13 IS DAH BEST KOF GAME, no I've never played it" just dominates every KOF discussion and I'm so over it.

[@CasualRemy]

I got into KOF very late, maybe toward the end of KOF XIII's lifespan, and I remember being so distraught when it seemed like KOF (and SNK) were done for good. So imagine my elation when I see the teaser for KOF XIV and the frustration I felt when everyone dogpiled the game for the visuals. I stayed optimistic though, and I'm forever thankful that KOF XIV not only exceeded my expectations, but also saved both the franchise and SNK as a whole. That game forever holds a special place in my heart

[@Colecionador7162]

13 is not even the best ash saga KOF game but people still try to use it as some type of "gotcha" against other KOF games simply because it looks better (I guess) I hate KOF 13 """fans"""

[@MasterSprintersan1]

THANK YOU for this comment. Seriously, thank you!

[@clarencegutsy7309]

KOF13 sprites are extremely hit or miss to me too. The old sprites from the '90s/early 2000s had much more personality to them. As for KOF 14, it was more fun than Max's premier glaze-game KI 2013 which he somehow thinks is a top ten of all time fighter.

[@vincentfalcone9218]

KOF XI > KOF XIII. That game deserved to be bigger, loved the roster and the gameplay.

[@kamenrangerzeo8251]

Maximilian the gamer sage: "Gather around me my fellow chat members as I tell you the tale about fighting games and the criticism that they deserve."

[@kai0318]

I think 2 things that contributed to Rumbleverse's shutdown specifically: - It was a new live service at a time where every publisher on Earth was trying to push its own live service with Battle Pass, which kinda led to a big "war on player retention" that just kinda tired players. Around the time of Rumbleverse's shut down, like 3 other live service games shut down as well (Ubisoft's Knockout City was one of them I seem to recall.) - It was only ever released on the Epic Games Store, which first of all means it had to compete directly with *Fortnite* of all things, but I'm pretty sure it also came out at a time where the Epic Games Store was coming under fire from people because Epic was trying to muscle its way into competing with Steam by giving developers "too-good-to-pass-up" exclusivity deals.

[@Rough_Estimates]

The way how max feels about Marvel vs Capcom infinite I feel about Soul Calibur 5. Both games with bad story modes and lukewarm roster but phenomenal gameplay, arguably the best in SC history. Meter burning was fun

[@NigelMelanisticSmith]

Glad to make sure I wasn't going crazy, I recall SCV being real fun to play and learn, though I can admit I don't go back to it as often as I go back to SCII

[@Denothorm]

100% agree. I had a blast playing SCV. Had my favorite character in the entire franchise to play, Omega Pyrrha. Loved just jumping into matches with her.

[@TheDogSamurai]

SCV ruled imo.

[@yoshimallow]

SCV is imo an improvement over SCIV in some ways... but also an even bigger disaster in others. And in some ways just outright cruel. For example. While yes. The Tsunami MIGHT HAVE been the reason there weren't any profiles in the main game, there wasn't anything to get in the way when the released the Art Book... and way too much of that thing is dedicated to making Sophie and her ENTIRE family as miserable as possible. Sophitia: Forced to turn against her family and friends, Dies trying to save her Daughter, Has her visage used to manipulate her Son, and has a fucking stupis retcon forced onto her with the Heart Shard. Rothion: Dies of Illness, unable to find Sophie, and hated by the locals. Cassandra: Disappears into the Astral Chaos and eventually goes insane. Lucius: just leaves, never to be heard from again. Also hating Rothion for not telling Patroklos that Sophie died. Nike (her mom): Dies from all the stress of everything going wrong with her family. Achelous (her dad): Has a Breakdown after losing both of his daughters, and is recieving medical treatment. Not dead, but he is likely on his way out. Pyrrha: Sold into Slavery by Dampierre, Had the one bright moment she ever got taken from her by Tira when she killed Pyrrha's fiancé and blamed her for it, was even further manipulated and gaslit by Tira, and finally becomes the next wielder of Soul Edge Patroklos: While not suffering a grim fate like the others, he still ends up being the most hated character in the series for just being unlikable. Again, all this was in the Artbook. There was no Tsunami to get in the way this time. This is basically just Targeted Harassment towards the entire Alexandra family.

[@thegallantrayku2677]

I loved gameplay in SC5 as well, Siegfried and ZWEI were extremely fun

[@sunkistwaves]

Question: Would you buy an offline, microtransactionless Multiversus that structured itself like Smash where you can unlock all of the characters through normal means?

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

I would yeah.

[@gamemax1049]

Sounds like Heaven

[@BknMoonStudios]

*_Absolutely._* (Though not at 60 or even 50 USD. I earn minimum wage in Mexico, and full-price games are prohibitively expensive. 😅)

[@willidk628]

Kinda like Rivals of Aether 2?

[@ArynWellspring]

That sounds like a video game, in this economy? Wishful thinking

[@RagingRowen]

KOF XV's only extreme animosity was non-functional matchmaking for far too long. I noticed criticism towards SNK games isn't really towards the game portion, but the functionality outside it. SamSho '19 for example didn't have rollback for years and took too long to get to PC.

[@matteste]

Also, that Epic exclusivity after they promised that they wouldn't do it certainly didn't help either.

[@RagingRowen]

@@matteste I don't really remember them saying that, just that a PC release was coming and that's all. Was it in some interview that flew under my radar?

[@x-ray2k136]

Nah they put samsho '19 on the Google Stadia first then they put on EGS THEN they put it on steam

[@matteste]

@@RagingRowen I don't remember from where exactly, but it was when Epic was really going at it with all those exclusives and people worried it would happen to SamSho. They assured people that it would not happen, only for them, again, go back on it and take the bribe.

[@IcanoGihoren]

I'll never understand Max's take that no one was asking for Street Fighter to cross over with Tekken. As a casual fighting game enjoyer then and now, that announcement was so cool and made so much sense. Especially with initial idea of both companies getting a chance to play with the others toys was crazy exciting. It's a shame it ended up the way it did.

[@orlanzo2621]

As a hardcore fighting game fan i actually agree with him. I never even thought about SF vs Tekken, it was never something that crossed my mind as something I wanted to see literally ever honestly lol. I was more confused than excited when it was announced. The thing I always wanted to see was “Street Fighter vs King of Fighters” (which we got with Capcom vs SNK), and Tekken vs Virtua Fighter. Street Fighter and Tekken just seemed like an odd pairing that didn’t make much sense.

[@IcanoGihoren]

@orlanzo2621 those make a lot of sense too. And I'd still love to see VF and Tekken have some sort of major cross-over.

[@DarkOverlord96]

@orlanzo2621 Oh but *MARVEL VS. CAPCOM* makes more sense than actually pairing two actual fighting game series? Give me a break with that nostalgic bias BS.

[@jaysonderrickson9540]

I agree. I remember when Marvel vs Capcom started and folks were not understanding how we got to that other than Capcom making X-Men/Marvel fighting games. I preferred Street Fighter vs Darkstalkers back then.

[@manuelmaa8196]

I’m pretty sure that he’s just saying that it wasn’t a popular idea for a crossover before it was announced but not that the idea was bad or unappealing.

[@dp-2win95]

I think the devs for the multiverse did deserve something. The fact that players spent money on a beta only for that game to leave for a year. WB initially took players money and ran without saying anything on whether or not the game would come back.

[@IzraelGraves]

They never released it as a full game. It was ALWAYS a beta, and the information page on the game flat out said it would be pulled down and that all purchases were going to support further development of the actual release.

[@rasengdori13]

@@IzraelGraves Kickstarter AAA from billionaire corporations is peak dystopian capitalism. The industry needs government intervention yesterday.

[@FGenthusiast0052]

​@@IzraelGravesthat's cap. I literally was in the beta, and literally when Rick was released, it was the start of Season 1. The "beta" on the main screen was taken out. Then they go back away, and act like idiots, and gaslight you with that? Look, I enjoy the gameplay besides everything... But even by that, I couldn't stand WBs stupid decisions and grindy system for a FG. Brawlhalla works because it took its time and was smart on how to put monetization on the game. It can work. But WB fumbled it so bad (again) it ended up dying. Even when it came back, their attitude was lukewarm.

[@cosmosofinfinity]

@@IzraelGraves If you are paying to play the game, instead of the game paying you to test it, it is not a beta. It's out, as a published consumer product, that they are making money on. It's release date is not whatever they whimsically declare to be the time to call it 1.0, it's when it is playable and let loose (AKA released) to the general public

[@pockystyx4087]

Another one that absolutely deserved its negative response at the time was KoF12. Just an unfinished mess, that really kind of showed us that we were probably never getting high quality sprite work in fighting games as much as we used to. KOF13 being the big apology that it was for it, still never made me feel like I didn't get scammed buying it back in the day lol

[@TheLandofObscusion]

KOF XII wasn't "unfinished", but rather was simply a publicly-released test game for the Taito Type-X2 hardware it was running off of, same as KOF NeoWave was for the Atomiswave. The only problem was that it was given the next proper number in its title, instead of calling it something like "The King of Fighters Type-X" or something, and I wouldn't be surprised if the reason it got the main number for its title was because someone in SNK realized that "X2" looked vaguely like "XII" or "12" & managed to convince the higher ups to go with the number, despite it not really being the next "proper" KOF entry.

[@pockystyx4087]

@@TheLandofObscusion I mean, they sure as shit charged us full price for it on launch lol But yeah; I know they were stalling for time on 13, its just something that wasn't exactly advertised to people who were looking to play the next KoF game. I think, even knowing the struggles they went through, it was very justified that people did not like 12.

[@ShinUltima]

@@TheLandofObscusion Uh, I'm pretty sure this isn't correct. KoFXII was indeed unfinished. It was never meant to be a "test game", it was to be the next mainline KoF game, the end of the Ash Crimson Saga. Graphically, it was to be a new start for KoF, jettisoning the sprites that they had been recycling for 10+ years by that point. But they bit off WAAAY more than they could chew, with the process taking FAR longer than they anticipated (and hence costing WAY more than initially planned), so they sent KoFXII out unreleased in arcades (with smallest roster in KoF history) and on home consoles just to recoup some funds. The fact that KoFXII was being released on Taito Type-X2 means nothing other than the fact t that hat was the latest arcade hardware platform chosen (Street Fighter IV was also developed on Type X-2). It was not at all any test game. KoFXIII is basically the mostly finished version of the game that KoFXII was supposed to be. Dataminers checked the files for KoFXII on console and found names files for characters who were in XIII but not in XII (I think a few were still missing from XIII in the end; there was supposed to be a "Those From the Past" team). BTW, I'm not sure why you're mentioning KoF NeoWave. The Atomiswave was the arcade hardware that SNK chose to develop for after they retired the MVS. KoF NeoWave (basically a remake of KoF 2002) was the first KoF that they released for Atomiswave, but it wasn't the last. They released the all new KoF XI for the system too, before the switched to developing for Taito Type-X.

[@icedcapplord710]

Shame you couldn't comprehend the majesty of Star Wars: Masters of Teras Kasi even after nearly a decade. It's okay to admit when you're wrong

[@erichthegraham]

I honestly enjoyed that game quite a bit while I was playing it. It's a janky mess but back in the days of renting stuff from Blockbuster and Hollywood video I was overlooking that and enjoying playing Boba Fett in a fighting game

[@supermodzilla338]

That game is the definition of “so bad it’s good”.

[@thecaptain6520]

*HOAR* *VS* *THOK*

[@ironmaster6496]

That game isn't eben that bad....till you play Plasma Sword and realize what that star wara game should have been

[@meganinten0078]

Glad that SNK Heroines didn't appear in this video That game is very overlooked People hate it because of the fanservice (which is a dumb reason), and because of how experimental the gameplay was (the fact that you can only KO opponent with Supers, and the simplified controls) Once you learn how the mechanics work you will discover a very fun game I would love to see a sequel With a polished gameplay and more characters SNK Heroines deserves better

[@BJGvideos]

I was honestly a bit surprised that Female Terry wasn't an alt in Smash. But I guess they'd have to change the hitbox.

[@thegallantrayku2677]

Sounds like Playstation All Stars to me

[@000mjd]

@@meganinten0078 funny thing it's that the game sold very well to SNK considering was a minor launch to them I wouldnt be surprised if they announce a sequel someday

[@meganinten0078]

@@000mjd Yep I know that This year, Oda said in an interview that he would love to make a sequel of SNK Heroines

[@dnmstarsi]

Gameplay was alright IMO, fanservice could've been a bit more than sex appeal (have one or two appealing outfits but throw in more nods to other characters or old outfits they were) and add more female characters.

[@mustangcz756]

The biggest problem that I saw with Rumbleverse it was actually the artstyle, everytime I showed this game to some friends, they either thought it was a mobile game, because the art and character design was very similar to games like Crash of Clans or Crash Royale or they straight up didnt like the models because of how uncanny some characters faces looked like, and in a game that you have to use that character every time, it was not comfortable for them seeing that faces every single time.

[@ShatteredPedestal7]

It’s why Marvel Rivals is a big success. You have characters that don’t look like they were made in one week, and actual effort was put.

[@mustangcz756]

@@ShatteredPedestal7 I like to think that the design team of Rumbleverse actually put effort on the characters, but the problem is that a human character with cartoony proportions usually doesnt mix well with realistic textures and shaders. If the game had some kind of cel-shading it could have fixed a bit the uncanniness of the models.

[@lil_puff4775]

The Game that made WB go almost bankrupt is Suicide Squad Kill The Justice League they spent 200 million dollars to hope it’ll become a franchise

[@onyxsylvian]

The only redeeming quality of that game is Samoa Joe is the voice of King Shark as a fan of pro-wrestling.

[@qorpse]

​@@onyxsylvianJoe needs to be in more games. Can't wait to see him in the new Yakuza spinoff

[@onyxsylvian]

@qorpse Agreed. His threatening aura from wrestling and being a damn good mic-worker gives him experience in that field. Maybe if there's an Injustice 3 we can get more Samoa Joe as King Shark. Heck, if they remade the old Twisted Metal video games, he played Sweet Tooth in the live action series so why not bring him back for that?

[@cosmosofinfinity]

Citation needed on Suicide Squad being enough to bankrupt WB as a whole. Pretty sure companies of that magnitude can take 5-10 Suicide Squads in a row before the fate of the company is in question

[@abaddon1503]

200 million is not enough to “make WB go almost bankrupt” let’s be real. They’re worth 25 Billion, Suicide Squad was a blip on their radar slightly bigger than any other failure

[@OtherBarry4908]

Mortal Kombat should have stayed away from micro transactions.

[@C0DYM4N99]

Exactly. Reboot after Reboot didn't help its identity either. Not to mention, the abundance of guests. T-1000? Conan? It's preposterous.

[@blove88]

While I'm not on the "MK sucks!" bandwagon, I agree with this 100%. That really hurt the franchises perception

[@agrippa2012]

all video games*

[@ShatteredPedestal7]

When you’re owned by company desperate for money, that’s impossible.

[@AnthonyMcNeil]

ALL GAMES should stay away from microtransactions, but blame gamers for accepting them. First it was DLC...gamers have publishers an inch and they took a mile.

[@NoRamNobiosNoService]

I would definitely not want Street fighter to cross over with Mortal Kombat. I don't need to see any fatalities on Street fighter characters. Maybe if you put Mortal Kombat characters into a Street fighter game that might be acceptable but then what would be the point if there were no fatalities?

[@ShatteredPedestal7]

That’s the problem when you’re known as “that one fighting game where you can actually kill the other characters.”

[@juannaym8488]

it's kinda like the MK and DC crossover from 15 years ago. It would be weird if you could rip out Superman's spine, and it was weird to not have blood in a game with MK characters

[@FranciscoFJM]

Street fighter 6 has a couple of Critical Arts that are basically fatalities (JP, Jamie, Aki). I think bringing MK characters to Street Fighter COULD work if they had something like that, but not pushing it too much.

[@clarencegutsy7309]

I guarantee you KOF games could have the most gorgeous graphics known to humanity but the tourists will still whine about something because they don't know how to play an SNK fighting game for shit.

[@ShatteredPedestal7]

I hate American fgc creators so much. Glaze SF, screw everything else.

[@landonhulett2119]

The Top 7 fighting games that deserved the backlash/criticism: Soul Calibur 5 Dead or Alive 6 Multiversus Street Fighter x Tekken Street Fighter 5 Marvel vs Capcom Infinite Mortal Kombat 1

[@Arnuld15Governator]

Throw MK11 in there as well and I would whole heartily agree with that list

[@nrostova5606]

I'm surprised there's no Tekken here, I thought tag 2 or revolution would made it. Might've not been popular enough

[@therocketmanarch]

​@@Arnuld15Governator I disagree. MK11 is a great game.

[@BigChunkySkates]

KOF 15 had every reason to take the spotlight when it came out, there wasn’t much else that year. But the matchmaking was god awful and made it feel like no one was playing it and I think that snowballed.

[@Colecionador7162]

It's kinda sad tbh KOF 15 nowadays has one of the best rosters in the franchise, amazing gameplay, great extra features like the jukebox, an actual artstyle, rollback and crossplay... And yet the matchmaking problems from the launch version were so bad that it kind of traumatized the entire fanbase, some never came back and a lot of people don't even know that it was fixed 😢

[@clarencegutsy7309]

KOF 15 is arguably the best modern fighter but even without the matchmaking problems it chose one of the worst release windows with it coming out a few days before Elden Ring did and it didn't help like a week later Capcom released their SF6 teaser.

[@jarvisdotson7274]

I think SC6's biggest issue was that it released with delay-based net code right around the time people were really starting to get fed up with it.

[@SamuraiMotoko]

Multiversus monetization got worst, because instead of paying 40 bucks for a decent roster, they now expected you yo pay premium for each one individually, so everything feel like work to unluck stuff, including stuff you already paid for like the seadon passes

[@Ability-King-KK]

Also doesn't help that some characters (Nubia) are those that no one ever asked for or wanted.

[@dnmstarsi]

Yep. As rosters go including stages, it's main issue IMO is how kinda small it is while the variety is anything but bad (there are a lot of old and new icons , representation when it comes to the corners of WB and we got a couple of WTF choices) Though the effort it takes to unlock them, then and now (even with additional content like customizing your profile), isn't really worth it unless you're a huge fan of MVS and them giving out new variants to the usual characters like Velma and Batman but even that doesn't last that long when each season gave us two characters, a new stage or two, and more Rifts that are about the new characters joining the team or something silly like the Magical School but just end with them "joining the team" and then rince and repeat.

[@rumbleversewarrior]

im a big fan of Rumbleverse and i actually know the reason why the game shutdown so early from reading articles and listening to the developers when they were shutting the game down. The developers were suppose to release the game in February of 2022 but the issue was that they weren't finished making the game in time because they still needed work to be done on the game to make sure it was functioning properly, so sadly it took Iron galaxy 6 months later to release the game in August of 2022. It seems that whatever contract Iron Galaxy had with Epic Games was down to it's last 6 months left meaning that because Iron Galaxy was still working on the game, they lost 6 months and had only 6 months left to get a years worth of money to seem profitable to keep around, which sadly no game would have been able to do that with 6 months left. As a result, Epic Games announced the shut down in January 2023, surprising everyone, making it seem like the game was so bad it didnt last 6 months, BUT THE REAL ISSUE was that they didn't finish the game on time. Theres other stuff that helped contributed to Rumbleverse not succeeding but overall it was the time issue. Everything else could have been worked out over time. The game did not fail because it was bad, it failed because it didn't finish on time like it was supposed to. I formed a community on twitter called "Grapital City Outcasts" where our goal is to help Iron Galaxy find another Publisher by collecting as many fans as possible to show publishers that Rumbleverse deserves a second chance and it will be a profitable opportunity the next time it comes around based on how many people are in our community willing to own the game. If you can Max, we need help gathering more people to our community to help bring this game back somewhere in 2025. Check out or community on twitter when you have the time to see what we've been up to and if you could give us a shout out for our cause that would be very helpful towards bringing Rumbleverse back!

[@justingochioco1121]

I would never forgive Marvel vs Capcom Infinite for not having the X men or Deadpool in the game

[@aryelrosa4829]

It Honestly surprised me that they didn’t make a come back in MVCI.

[@Ability-King-KK]

@@aryelrosa4829 They weren't part of the MCU at the time, with their movie rights still being owned by Fox. That's why they weren't allowed to come back.

[@hacksignify]

@@Ability-King-KK as much as I disagree with OP, they absolutely could have. they did not have the rights to the characters but the movie rights. Disney let this game suffer cause they were on a mission to buy fox and didn't want to give them anything in the process.

[@Did_No_Wrong]

Longtime Soul Calibur fan here. Yeah 5 had potential. Big potential, but one of the biggest problems with 5 was indeed the roster. 5 introduced brand new characters that were just replacements of legacy characters with the exact same movesets just slightly tweaked and then did nothing to develop them as characters. The stories biggest weakness was that most of the roster might as well not exist since the story exclusively only focused on Patrokolas and Phyrra and noone else. Hilde? Doesn't exist. Siegfried the original protagonist and Soul Edges most tragic victim? Only there to give Patrokolas Soul Calibur. Viola? Interesting new character that barely had 5 minutes of screentime. Raphael? Only in the Roster because he was Nightmare in the story mode and the story doesn't even bother telling you that. Ivy the heartthrob and face of the games sex appeal? Only there to tell Patrokolas about Soul Calibur. And of course the biggest victims. Xiba, Leixia, and Natsu who are replacements for Kilik, Xianghua and Taki. Only there for 2 small cutscenes just to progress Patrokolas story despite the how much their existence effect the lore of past characters. 5 needed more time in the oven to actual put separate story modes for all these characters like they did with 3 and 6.

[@dorksanddragons]

I really do hate that so much crap fell on SFxT; it was such a novel game at its core, made shitty by horrible business practices.

[@gentlguy1101]

I find it funny that one of the interesting aspect of KOF XIV is the amount of new characters with 22 new characters introduced in the game and only 2 of them are DLC. SF6 only has 5 new characters in the base roster and Tekken only has 4 new characters!

[@cosmosofinfinity]

Blue Mary, Najd, Heidern, Oswald, Rock Howard, Vanessa, Ryuji Yamazaki, and Whip were all DLC characters for XIV

[@meganinten0078]

The thumbnail showing KOF XIV Andy reminds me of how ugly his 3D render is 😅 There is a meme where someone put Andy's 3D render in the cover of Tekken 2 Heihachi looks much better than Andy 🤣

[@tallguybrush]

It's no secret Max is not very fond of Terence's brother

[@seanmcbay]

I can't play non-Smash platform fighting games. I hate how none of the attacks have any impact in any of them.

[@megaburritozero]

May I recommend Rivals of Aether 1/2, if you haven't played it already?

[@blackmanta2527]

In brawlhalla the screen shakes like crazy with impact

[@spiffythealien]

Making Soulcalibur like Third Strike and getting hated for it shows the double standard of disrespect the FGC holds against the SC series while glazing SF for doing the same thing. Hell, SCV does EX moves better than any SF game. No need for 12 versions of one fireball for Ryu and then do the same for EVERY special move for EVERY character, just enhance a *particular* move or have a busted move cost some meter. Simple. Easy. Smart.

[@darthmisogyny3828]

third strike and Sf3 in general was hated on. It took years for people to like Sf3.

[@brayenmorrison3199]

Now were talking here.

[@RushValentine]

I will give KOFXIV a slack because several factors: 1. they were back from bankruptcy 2. KOFXIII doesnt do financially well DESPITE "the fans" love it. 3. Its their first game before anything else and without it, Fatal Fury City of the wolves WONT exist.

[@kainhighwind2]

Know one really good thing about Soul Calibur 5? Devil Jin was a fighting style for your created characters. That was so cool

[@badpope]

SFXT was a mess but I still wish it was playable on current gen systems. You can’t even buy the game on Steam.

[@majoraxx2427]

My local comic book store had it for $15. Game is mad fun. I hope it sees a rerelease with rollback

[@oluwajimiloko2536]

I have it on my old vita. I even get online matches once in a while 😂

[@ryltair]

Max's opinion on MK1 seems to change constantly. From "most fun I've had in an NRS game" to "worst feeling NRS game".

[@angelsilva7207]

I started talking his opinions less seriously. “The worst feeling NRS game” but he dropped MK11 faster than MK1. Even saying he’s had more fun playing MK1 than MK11 in its entirely

[@cosmosofinfinity]

Yeah, he seems to hide his negative feelings and then drops it like a bomb all of a sudden when it seems like the game is in the past, too cowardly to speak out against it while it's in the present. Unless the complaints are made during streams all the time and just never end up clipped together for a purpose-made KZbin video to indict its problems

[@dnmstarsi]

All opinions are capable of changing, dude. This is a game that's greedy but still replayable at times especially when they have guest characters or interesting moments in a story.

[@roundabout468]

​​@@cosmosofinfinityman chill. I really like MK1 and I have tons of fun with it but you can also acknowledge that some stuff js feels a little off and it's not quite there and could use a few more touches. It's not cowardly to talk about how you like a game in a positive video then bring up negatives in a more negative video, it's just logical.

[@kchampz1093]

oddly enough I find the gameplay of SCV some of the best, minus lack of parry without meter. SFV deserved all the heat it got at the start, it did improve though. SCVI I think died with COVID, I also recall BAMCO saying it met sales expectations?

[@flameburst45]

They were planning to support scvi with a world tour in 2020 that got cancelled due to covid

[@FGenthusiast0052]

Max didn't mention it, but the problem of SCVI was certainly covid. It's most likely the ONLY one of this list that actually had to struggle with this. The game wasn't even that old, but COViD cancelled all it's tournaments, thus killing the momentum of even it getting a championship run. None of the games at the time had to suffer that, because they were already well established, or weren't out for the public to see yet. SCVI just suffered by an event out of its hands, and since the SC community is already quite niche, you take out their chance at spotlight? That's rough.

[@SilverForte]

​@@FGenthusiast0052sc6 was going to have a world tour. The game itself is fantastic I hate the circumstances that caused all that to be cancelled.

[@-Vagabond-Heart-]

About Soulcalibur 6: 2 million sales and was planned for a 2nd time as EVO main game* and even a World Tour was announced, but it seems that covid (+ bad online) killed Soulcalibur 6 (*I'm may be wrong but I guess it never appenned before for a SC game to be 2 times at EVO as main game)

[@707zacbuster]

The funniest thing about SFxT when it came to the gems was when it was revealed there were auto tech throw and auto block gems people thought those gems alone would break the game. What people didn’t know was that in order for auto block/tech throws to activate you needed meter. Auto tech throw require almost a whole meter to activate. For auto block, it varied on the strength of the attack you were blocking but the longer you were blocking attacks the more meter was required. As someone who managed to achieve A+ rank, I rarely ran into people who used those gems

[@masterofchaos7282]

For me, a game that deserved a lot of its criticism was Blazblue Cross Tag Battle. Over half the cast was DLC (including the BY of RWBY), the number of characters per series was really skewed towards 1 side, the fighting was really simplified compared to any of the games included and it was really bare bones in terms of content (like SFV we also didn’t get an arcade mode). I do wish the game lasted longer. I wish that we got more characters from RWBY, Arcana Heart, etc, I wish they included other Arc System properties like giving us the Blazblue vs Guilty Gear most of us want and I wish they maybe added some additional mechanics and features to keep the game fresh but oh well. Maybe we’ll somehow get a cross battle 2 someday.

[@Ender41948]

I can understand why the fighting system had to be simplified, due to all the tag systems in place, if it was as complicated as say Centralfiction I'd imagine the game would be a convoluted mess. The last patch they did was a step in the right direction in terms of adding new characters and mechanics, but the damage was done at that point I suppose.

[@DarkOverlord96]

I don't get how the concept of Street Fighter X Tekken was APPARENTLY too hard to swallow... but not CVS, MVC or TVC. I mean, yeah, one's 2D and other's 3D but there's always been the rivalry between the two series because of that, plus all the similar character archetypes much like with KOF and Fatal Fury. I dunno, to me that sounds like a really forced "criticism" when it's actually a crossover that makes sense.

[@Bigsauce7593]

But that wasnt the big issue tho. The issue was the dlc and the gem system.

[@DarkOverlord96]

@Bigsauce7593 I *KNOW* but Max mentions the whole concept of the game as an "issue," which makes *NO SENSE.*

[@FGenthusiast0052]

A couple have mentioned, and even back then, Capcom and Marvel having a crossover was a crazy idea to hear. How would you implement those concepts together? ... Poof! Surprise! One of the most beloved FG line of games in history. Max's take there is very forced and bad. And Akuma shows that even a Tekken x Street Fighter can work, seeing how well he was built for the game.

[@DWFTW]

@@FGenthusiast0052 I mean he never said it wouldn't work, he just said it was never hoped for. It does impact how well it'd appeal to people, although I doubt it's actually true. Max can't speak for everyone, there would surely be people big fans of both who wanted to see it happen, no question. Just not enough for him to have heard about it. Definitely feels like a stretch to bring it up though. Your example doesn't quite work though since Capcom had been making Marvel games with decent similarities to Street Fighter for a while before crossing them over. Wouldn't expect it, but if it happens you can see the link. To start most of it was just tweaked versions of their respective games anyway with some new mechanics.

[@ExeErdna]

SFxT had laggy stages where it created the whole meme that people fought on Training Stage to remove any sort of lag. Then the gimmicks in said game NOBODY really vibed with. CVS, MVC and TVC were SIMPLE games

[@avatarofcloud]

SC6 didn't achieve the sales Bamco wanted because they gave the game the budget of a ham sandwich and expected it to sell like Tekken 7.

[@G11683]

The problem with MvCI isn't JUST the lack of X-Men and visuals... the roster in general was ASS. There was absolutely nothing surprising or exciting, especially in Capcom's side. If we have a smaller roster, why tf are we choosing Spencer??? And, of course, on Marvel's side, there was the criminal lack of X-Men.

[@hacksignify]

Okay, but how was the game? like I loved sigma and the addition of a monster hunter, venom was back and I loved that. some fan favs in dante and chun, black pather, while tough to play, is also awesome to see. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater over an opinion. I thought the roster was fine and there was more DLC coming, it was the visuals and the lack of X-men. You can throw in whatever BS criticism on top of that, but those were the only valid strikes against the game and they are weak when you have a lick of sense about you.

[@n.m.9042]

The jump from DoA4 to DoA5 was impressive! The characters models improved by a lot and they looked really pretty, but from DoA5 to DoA6?! There was pretty much nothing...

[@FGenthusiast0052]

When you compare the models of DoA5 and DoA6, there's certainly some improvements on the face models, and the overall possibilities of animations with it. But those aren't that easier to visualize, and again, the differences weren't that groundbreaking either.

[@Lexicon865]

I feel the idea of a Street Fighter and Tekken crossover felt natural to me as besides their worlds being somewhat similar, I grew up in an age where Tekken and SF are both the giants of the fighting game genre, with SF being the forefather of all FGs and Tekken being the one 3D fighting game that's still going + its popularity across the world, what with the culture representations and whatnot. MK never crossed my mind to cross over with SF as those felt like two different worlds + MK isn't as big outside of the US tbh, especially new age MK

[@pouletsept5099]

I can't agree with him enough about the mortal Kombat 1. I haven't been this disappointed with a mortal Kombat game since mortal Kombat Armageddon.

[@C0DYM4N99]

Well, you have to understand. The concept of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon sounded cool. But graphically? It's an absolute nightmare. It suffered significantly from the absence of FATALITIES (I'm not even counting the Kreate-a-Fatality shit) and the bland direction they got around its new protagonist. I know Shujinko didn't get popular, but he honestly should've canonically been THE guy to stop Blaze as he had the best chance of usurping Shao Kahn rather than a demigod in Taven. I will admit, one thing Armageddon outbeat MK2024: Motor Kombat. So fun 😂😂😂

[@pouletsept5099]

@@C0DYM4N99 Very true. My problem with Armageddon was it felt so lazy in areas. Mataro having two legs so they didn't have to rig a four leg mataro for example.

[@votedbestjustin]

Agreed. I think it's my last new Mortal Kombat game. I don't see Warner Bros making another good game for a very long time.

[@C0DYM4N99]

@ Yeah, it sucks. But hey, two great things came out of its legacy. The intro and Motor Kombat. If Warner Brothers Studios were smart to see the marketability behind chibi versions of klassic Mortal Kombat fighters, it happily deserves a remake. Then again, given by MK1's status now despite its success in terms of finance, maybe it's best that Armageddon is the one definitive source of Motor Kombat ever.

[@Landonio]

SC5 is underrated. It's arguably the third best in the entire series. The core gameplay was the best since 2 and the online netcode was the best ever at the time for a fighting game.

[@SilverForte]

ScV had better netcode than VI

[@FGenthusiast0052]

Max keeps overlooking it, eventho his point for MvCI, is the same for SCV (although it doesn't have as many - like MVCI) My time playing it online was very fun, and the movement flow was very good. But the story and roster is jack af. Fix this, and you have an amazing SC

[@Altar360]

I’ll never forgive SCV’s justifications for replacing characters like Taki or writing in characters like Ivy to not age was solely because they thought people wouldn’t wanna gawk at older women.

[@goranisacson2502]

It really is spectacular how they failed two audiences there. Those who care about Soul Caliburs world and plot and characters would have wanted to see the female characters develop and go further in life, abandoning revenge or clinging to it, protecting their children or training them to take over after them and so on and so forth, just like with the male characters. All because they fear the perverts would not want to buy a game where women age out of their twenties (or younger). And then they ALSO fail the perverts by denying us finely aged wine, because they think our tastes are as boring as theirs! Now no one is happy!

[@landonhulett2119]

What's worse, is that in the game's main story, successors of Taki, Killik, and Shenhua had very minor roles to where they didn't contribute to the story at all. What was even the point of having these characters if they're not important to the game's main story?

[@Altar360]

@ Exactly, plenty of gorgeous older women out there to use as reference strictly speaking of the more sexualized aesthetic. But even so, I’d love a badass old lady as a playable character in a fighting game. Something like The Butterfly from Sekiro. An old Ninja Lady who used needles and illusions would be perfect for Soul Calibur

[@darkstardarin]

I can easily sum up why DOA6 failed: 1. Overpriced DLC (same as 5) 2. Monetizing HAIR COLOR CHANGES of all things 3. That dumbass meter 4. Story being just as bad as 5's 5. Devs catered too much to Goonerism than improving the gameplay 6. Did I mention how STUPID the DLC prices are?!?

[@Maliketh___]

wish max talked a bit about samsho 2019. it’s not hated or anything just another fighting game under the radar but i genuinely wish it could be much bigger. it’s such a beautiful fighting game and it pains me to see it dead and buried.

[@ShatteredPedestal7]

Unfortunately that was the last game to have delay based netcode. And even if it wasn’t, I think the gameplay being slower was a factor that many people didn’t like.

[@000mjd]

@@Maliketh___ from what we know Samsho 2019 it's their best selling game since they left their arcade days

[@natl9953]

"Characters are essentially just functions" had a huge impact in sinking MvCI.

[@fnargler]

I played SCV competitively and at the top level it was the best SC has ever been. Combos and controls were generally very tight and well executed. Balance outside of Viola was pretty solid. The brave edge system was also way better the SC6 soul charge system. Story mode being ass was the main issue since SC players have been spoiled with great single player content. I didn't find the new roster to be bad at all aside from there being too many "random select" style characters.

[@felipeaguena5289]

I still can't believe Spencer from Bionic Commando is in MVCI. That game's rosters is almost a crime

[@coffenicosos306]

Sf x Tk was the first fighting game i ever played, as a kid I didnt know wft was going on and now I just have some nostalgia for it, a shame it had that many problems

[@KabroSaavedra]

I feel nostalgia for DBGT Final Bout, so... 🤷‍♂️

[@ryanm.8720]

If Capcom rereleased the game with all of the DLC unlocked, and with a toggle to turn the gems system off instead of having to remove them manually, the game would've been better received. The roster was a mixed bag (Elena and Christie Monteiro were great additions, but why were Rufus and Bad Box Art Mega Man playable fighters?), but the gameplay was awesome.

[@hsalfesrever3554]

​@@ryanm.8720 Rufus was probably added because he was in SF 4, so they had a Rufus model ready to go instead of making one from scratch, and Bad Box Art Mega Man came out at possibly the worst possible time, a little joke by the devs turned into a salt pile in the wound because two Mega Man games had already been cancelled in 2011, a year before SfxTekken released

[@IzraelGraves]

​@@KabroSaavedraWhat is this, a competition? You rememeber an even jankier fighting game with more nostalgia? The fuck was the point of your comment.

[@ryanm.8720]

@@hsalfesrever3554 Even then, it would've made more sense if E. Honda (who was also in 'Street Fighter IV') was chosen as Zangief's tag partner instead of Rufus, since Zangief and Rufus likely never interacted in canon. It probably only happened because Capcom was shilling the newcomers of 'IV' (which is also why Crimson Viper was a playable fighter in 'MvC3' in spite of later being reduced to cameo appearances) - much like what they would later do with Luke Sullivan - and because Rufus shared Zangief's boisterous demeanor.

[@Killerkillergrim123]

Multiversus was looking so good until the big year long break to catch up. The worst part, was that it actually returned worse and with less features than the original beta. They stated that they lost crucial features because of the transition to a new engine at the time. As a person who really enjoyed the beta, it felt terrible that the game was worse during its re-release than its original beta.

[@djhero0071]

I honestly thought Max was talking about MK11 instead of MK1. Last I remember, dude had some issues with that game.

[@Brandonweifu]

He did...both

[@Synical02]

he did both but he admit never really played 11.

[@leithaziz2716]

He does have gripes, but at the end of the day decided his issues are subjective and not reflective of how the general audience felt about it (which was mostly positive).

[@Brandonweifu]

@@leithaziz2716 and that jag off FATE tried talking crao about his takes

[@Abel_Unstable]

The Worst part of Soul Calibur 6 is the way the story presented. Its a wall of texts, a power point presentation, like any Mobile Game ever. Saddest part of them all, there are several in-game cutscenes that Actually Awesome. Imagine the entire story shown like this, I think the game would be received pretty well or atleast care about the story.

[@louisfacade]

But let's be honest if they remaster or just re release SFxT it'll sell massively.

[@samhainvt]

Nah, you'd have to rebuild that shit from the ground up to make it worthwhile, and I don't think either studio has that in mind right now

[@blackmanta2527]

Sfxt just felt like Street fighter ex3 but worse lol

[@NegoClau]

If they release this game without the gems it would be great. Also, I'm not entirely against Disc-Locked Content to be unlocked via gameplay. It feels less scammy than Downloadable Content seasons. I love that the acronym DLC can be used in both things, DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT and DISC-LOCKED CONTENT.

[@ParagonFury]

Max just casually glazing over the horrible non-interactive gameplay and defense of Duel as the primary reason of it not being liked.

[@paragonyoshi4237]

The reason the X-Men weren't in MvCI is actually quite simple: The Marvel License Split. X-Men were owned by Fox, while everything in MvCI was owned by Disney. So yeah, it was obvious why the X-Men weren't there.

[@Brandonweifu]

Most people say that's an excuse

[@paragonyoshi4237]

@@Brandonweifu How exactly? The IPs were split between different owners and one of the owners was Disney... What more do you need to know? Or is there anything wrong with what I've said?

[@343ishill]

It's not really obvious. Disney had the game rights, even though Fox had the movie rights. The casual and FGC crowd weren't expecting - franchise staples - X-Men - to be randomly committed from the new game.

[@yrh002b8]

Not to mention Disney did not want to promote Xmen because they wanted Fox to sell low.

[@FGenthusiast0052]

Add that to the heavy MCU approach MvCI went for, there was no room for X-Men characters in the roster... Eventhough with or without the MCU, the X-Men is a beloved group of characters for decades, icons of this crossover even... Yet you cut them? 😂

[@ekco64]

Some crossovers with 3-D fighting games I’d like to see: - Battle Arena Toshinden X Soul Calibur - Tekken v.s. Virtua Fighter

[@Deraphim]

I'm surprised Capcom Fighting Evolution didn't get a mention. Especially since it's included in the next collection. I don't know much about it myself, but from what he said previously it sounds like it was just a really lazy game with no thought or care put into it

[@gamemax1049]

Fighting Evolution in the Collection over either Rivals School 1 or Star Gladiator 1 it's still a blasphemy to me

[@PJSmoothie-l8w]

He probably only focused on fighting games from the 7th generation to now.

[@guybrush20X6]

Thing that sucked the most for Soul Calibur V wasn't just that it replaced most of the roster without establishing the new cast, but that it in particular replaced the majority of the female cast in particular. Mistruigi is allowed to come out of retirement, but not Taki. Pair that with how far they took the "physics" of the previous game, it didn't sit well with a lot of players.

[@chapapanga]

i never noticed before but look at the shadows in the kof 14 part , the stage shadows (benches on the church) goes one way , and the character shadows goes the other as the light goin to the character where stronger than the divine beams of light that comes from the windows lol

[@TheShotgunShovel]

The redeeming thing about Soul Calibur 5? The Character Select ost. That's. About. It.

[@Calhasnopals]

Every fighting games deserves criticism purely based on the fact they cost $60+. For the amount of content and, more often than not, the lacklustre quality of such content, I daresay we haven't criticised it enough to this day

[@DeamonChocobo]

I remember there was a lot of various discourse online about forced censorship on DOA6 (this was "Core Values" era EVO). Honestly my biggest thing was that DOA5 had 3 different versions (Base, Ultimate, & Last Round) plus a Vita versions; i wanted to get DOA6 a try but I didn't want to buy a game just to need to buy it again 2 more times so I was waiting.

[@thatguyiskoul]

Rumbleverse really needs to come back. It really had so much potential and they could have easily made money by making some of the characters as WWE wrestlers, UFC fighters, etc... So Sad that it was gone to fast :(

[@WhimsicottFanatic]

There's something funny about Max saying a crossover between Street Fighter and Tekken was kinda weird while also being The MvC Guy Because let's be honest, it's hard to get more out of pocket than "What if we had Street Fighter fight the X-Men?" Which then became "What if we had all kinds of Capcom characters fight all kinds of Marvel characters?" Not to mention Tatsunoko vs Capcom happening too Like, pretty much the only crossover I can think of that tops the face-value weirdness of MvC is Kingdom Hearts, because it's really hard to get weirder than a combination of Disney and Final Fantasy and it's frankly amazing it ever managed to become an actual series instead of just being a one-off considering the demographics of both brands are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum

[@void_soup]

Skullgirls definitely deserves the hate it’s recently getting. The removal of content, some of which has been back by kick starter backers is enough for me to stop supporting the devs or the new devs because they basically forcibly took over the game from one of the co creators. They removed story content not to offend anyone which was never a problem. They removed fan service which was part of the game’s identity. They also seem to be prioritizing putting content for the mobile game rather than the actual game which is annoying. They made all of these decisions to chase an audience that does not care and never will care about their game and now they barely have anyone left. Skullgirls isn’t meant to be a mainstream fighting game. Oh yeah they also delete negative comments on their Steam page. Which definitely doesn’t make them look suspicious.

[@ShatteredPedestal7]

Woolie coping that SG is still alive is funny to watch.

[@MrWhis-fe5hs]

I loved the art style and tried but I could never get into that game

[@void_soup]

@@MrWhis-fe5hs Yeah I don’t blame you. It’s definitely not for everyone. Very sweaty.

[@calzonecave]

Yeah I really don't like the implications of removing a bunch of art from the game for being too sexual in a game that kinda owes its existence to NSFW artists. Feels like they're retroactively shoving that community under the bus to present a cleaner image now that their main revenue source is a mobile game. Obviously it doesn't affect the core gameplay but it gives off really gross vibes IMO

[@void_soup]

@@calzonecave Agreed. Nice profile btw.

[@gtsgreatteacherscathach5550]

DOA6 really went in directions it shouldn't have, like the ridiculous amounts of grinding for costumes that are random and you cant choice which one to put points towards! What happened to just playing the different modes and getting the next costume in order?

[@CrimsonDragoon23]

0:59 Seth Killian put 💎 and the Pandora system in SFXT, so if anyone is to blame for how the game turned out, it should fall all on him IMO.

[@arturiaemiya3877]

I actually disagree with you about SFxT. I agree it had tons of problems but before it came out(at least in the Tekken community) there was interest in a crossover. My friends and I, for example, really wanted to see Tekken characters kick street fighter characters asses. Granted, we were more excited about the potential Tekken X Street Fighter because it would supposedly be in tekkens style. But yeah, back then I knew a lot of Tekken players that thought street fighter was inferior and wanted to show the SF fans what a 'real' fighting game looked like. Tbh, even for myself, SFxT was one of my first 2d fighting games because it had Tekken characters in it(I had played some SF in the past but wasn't a fan). It gave a bad impression because of it's dlc practices, back then Tekken didn't nickel and dime it's audience so we all saw it as confirmation that Capcom didn't treat its fans well. I've been a little out of the loop after Tekken 7 disappointed me, so I'm not sure if there is still a petty rivalry between 2d and 3d fighters, but it was entertaining when that was a thing

[@wdcain1]

Are Jill and Shuma on-disc DLC for the PS3 version of umvc3? I bought a copy but can't unlock the two since the game was delisted. Can anyone help?

[@RudoMike21]

The dlc were removed since 2013 the only to play them if you bought the next gen edition (PS4 and Xbox One) which considering the price good luck

[@AnimeFun4Every1]

Im a casual, all I needed from KOF 14 is to hear "whoa-oh-oh-ohoh, FOLLOW ME!!!". What a hype song.

[@lukejones7164]

Then there's MK11 for having terrible microtransactions and the worst story of any fighting game ever

[@TodoRatio4]

It wasn’t a failure. And the story mode, while not great, still runs circles around sf5, mvci or Soulcalibur 5 ones to name a few. The worst offender in MK11 is the gameplay

[@thirdworldrenegade]

I think Mortal Kombat 1 has a worse story. Base game and DLC. Mortal Kombat 11's story isn't any good, either, but at least it ended with some promise. Mortal Kombat 1's story is rushed, abrupt, and doesn't even have a resolution. Armageddon hits, then all of a sudden, everyone's eating. What the fuck? LOL!

[@thirdworldrenegade]

@@TodoRatio4 Facts. The gameplay in Mortal Kombat 11 is so stripped down. Especially when compared to Mortal Kombat X.

[@vincentfalcone9218]

In terms of presentation though that game had the biggest appeal to casuals ever. The fatalities were peak, the storyline may not have been all that great but on the surface it came across as "epic", pretty extensive roster, hype guest characters, lots of seasonal Towers, really nice looking well developed Krypt. Everything was nailed except the gameplay but it's not like it was unplayable.

[@Arnuld15Governator]

@@TodoRatio4 MK11 is the first and last fighting game I will ever preorder. It's one of the few games I regretted getting early and should have waited until I play tested it myself after release. One good thing I learned from the ordeal is that I'll never preorder anything again lol. NRS burned alot of good will with me with MK11.

[@WRILLI4M]

The reception for SFxTK and MVCI absolutely proves that even if the game is fun to play, it can easily be doomed by business decisions that outrage their intended fanbase.

[@thekid8224]

Never in the history of fighting games has anyone wanted to see SF vs MK. Sorry that's just another one of Max's wacky takes that he's trying to sell as a fact when in reality it was always SF x KOF/ capcom vs snk players could see working together and they did and still are.

[@BJGvideos]

People who don't care about how horribly incompatible the series are wanted it. Like MAYBE I could see Necalli as a guest character in MK but that's about it.

[@gamemax1049]

​@@BJGvideosThe only one that fit with MK is Akuma

[@BJGvideos]

@gamemax1049 Idk, Necalli has totally eaten someone's entrails you can't tell me he hasn't

[@clarencegutsy7309]

Yes they did? SF and MK were gigantic franchises in the West during the '90s. What the fuck am I even reading.

[@thekid8224]

@@clarencegutsy7309 sorry that was never a thing lmao literally never been a narrative. Yes both mk and and sf were both big in the 90's (in the west i might add) but the talks of them collaborating wasn't never a thing. The discussion that were happening among players was a collaboration between snk and capcom due to how similar their characters were and gameplay plus the companies freindly rivalry. Same goes for tekken and doa players could see the similarities and their was a rivalry between harada and Itagaki

[@JayBee20022]

Max hit DoA 6 dead on for me, I cleared the story with some friends one night and after that I just re installed DoA 5. % really just has it all and bit of a bonus with the guest VF characters. Personally I wish they did a formal crossover.

[@87crimson]

My thing with FGS is why the heck don't ALL of them have cross play among all platforms to build a community. FGS are niche as is...

[@IzraelGraves]

Cross play causes its own issues

[@soliduswasright678]

Blame Sony, they've been holding back the crossplay movement for years because they're control freaks.

[@ExeErdna]

Sony didn't want to play nice with crossplay at all, Nintendo can't handle it, which just leaves Xbox and the PC which are basically the same thing. Plus internet providers in US aren't equal either if you don't have some fiber and dealing with comcast it's RIP for netplay for fighters. That's just coast to coast...

[@barrysmith4610]

the fate of DNF Duel grieves me without end. Still shocked where every character reveal was a hype fest and now it's just total apathy towards the game. Sigghhh. Wish the devs did more to save it