Filing a Form 12 (Income Tax Return) in Ireland | Step By Step Guide

[@TheLearningsReport]

We know that these tax forms can be confusing, so hit us up below if you have follow-ups or questions. We'll do our best to answer! Disclosure: not tax advisors, etc etc - you know the spiel.

[@mohamedaymen1030]

please can you help me file my tax as a Deliveroo rider and stack what I should claim and how I do that can you help me to pay my income tax, please is my main job I don't have other income

[@Laurene-my2cents]

"And why have revenue done this ? We have no idea" 😂 This could be the slogan of your channel, seriously ! I just tried to understand if I had to fill a CG1 and/or a form 12 and I also tried to figure out if I have to walk to the post office this afternoon or not. And finally, you just gave me the answer. Thank you (again) for this video.

[@TheLearningsReport]

Haha you're welcome! Always worth trying to upload it via MyEnquiries first and see if they accept it 🤷‍ Hope you got it all sorted. - Ste

[@Someone-uo8jc]

I found this video after reading the revenue documentation where it says literally this: "How to file your CGT return There are several different CGT returns: Form CG1 - if you do not usually submit annual tax returns or use the online Form 12" For the life of me I couldn't find the section to fill in the CGT in the online form. Turns out that it isn't there! Only for paper form 12. Thank you very much for clarifying this in your video, it was driving me nuts! You guys should get some tax credits for this vídeos ;). You help way more than those impossible to read documents in the official page.

[@simonkoch4251]

I recently moved to Ireland and initially was very confused with taxes. But you guys helped so much with your videos! Thank you so much and keep up the good work :)

[@sagicit6500]

This video is very helpful for me. But I have a question that I am self-employed since last year, and the option to Amend doesn't seem to be working for me. Could you please advise me on that?

[@paulgraham8278]

Thanks again for this video, if I want to declare small amount Capital gains could I declare it on this form or do I have to send of paper form?

[@helenaclarke5]

Thank you so much for this video an immense help so clearly explained :)

[@massimomartella6528]

Thanks lads, very useful! A question from my side please, what about gain on ETFs? it should not be in the CG1 form as I understand if but it's not manetioned here either. Any clue? Cheers

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Massimo, sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this one. In short, it's not totally clear where to include it, and revenues guidelines are vague to say the least! From our research, we've seen that some people have simply been asked to make a payment for the ETF tax owed through 'My Account' and then send revenue a message to flag that you've made the payment. This, of course, sounds very inefficient. Alternatively, you could also add it under 'other income' in the Form 12 and in the text box, mention that you're declaring ETF gains. Generally, as long as you can show that you've made the effort to 'file', then you shouldn't have any issues in terms of penalties or anything - they'll likely just ask you to update/change your submission if there's a problem. Nonetheless, we've queried this again with revenue and will update as soon as we hear back from them 👍 - Ste

[@massimomartella6528]

@@TheLearningsReport thanks a mil for the feedback!

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@massimomartella6528 No worries! (still no response from revenue btw. I'll comment here once they do 🙄)

[@ruairifitzpatrick1212]

@@TheLearningsReport Hi Lads. Super video. Any feedback from Revenue yet on how best to submit ETF gains ?

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@ruairifitzpatrick1212 ​ Hey Ruairi - no their responses have still being v ambiguous, which of course is bizarre. Have you tried sending them a message directly yourself? The more we annoy them, hopefully someone will get a straight answer. To be honest, with the lack of clear answers we've gotten - our impression would be to just add it in under 'other assets' and then make a note somewhere in the return or in my enquiries that they're ETF returns. That should at least cover your bases and let them know that you're actively trying to pay it, but just can't figure it out. No doubt if they want your tax income, they'll answer you eventually! - Ste

[@OmidNik]

thanks for videos , any idea where we should return the paper form? Revenue website doesn't show a straight forward answer.

[@InvestwithDarren]

Great video lads! Excellently explained 👍🏻

[@TheLearningsReport]

Cheers Darren, appreciate it - not the most exciting stuff, but a necessary evil! - Ste

[@giovannimessina7124]

Hello guys, another fantastic video! I have a question...i am a payee earner with less than 5000 non-payee earning, and i want to understand how should i file an etf purchase. It doesn't seem to be possible with a form12. Could you indicate what form should i use to file etf purchase? is it form11? Thanks

[@TheLearningsReport]

hey Gio - Sorry for the late response - big summer off! Yes unfortunately, at time of writing, it seems that revenue require anyone who holds ETFs to file a Form 11 👎 Hopefully this changes at some stage!

[@AGhazzzy]

@@TheLearningsReport Is this still the case? thanks in advance

[@martilane]

Hi! many thanks for this video, very helpful! Just to double check, in which section should airbnb income be input? (occasional, under 5k) Many thanks!

[@stephenwilliams1286]

What does it mean when revenue state ‘coded against paye tax credits’ when determining if your

[@TheLearningsReport]

Sorry for the late response - big summer off! Hmm haven't seen this one before myself, afraid I'm not sure. Assume you've gotten an answer by now - please do share if so!

[@stephenwilliams1286]

@@TheLearningsReport I ignored it 😀

[@marcelobaiano2961]

Very educational video, congratulations. One question, in my case, I work as a courier where do I include the operational costs such as tires, insurance, fuel, etc.

[@FrediMorillas-pn2eb]

working as a deliveroo driver and getting under e5000 yearly. what section should this be declared in? many thanks

[@joshhall3299]

Thanks lads, really helpful. Any help with AVC pension relief? Thanks a mil

[@kawaiipineapplex63]

Your videos are so helpful, could you please make a video on VAT return on business side and Corporation Tax?

[@PatrickKenny-t3j]

Very helpful videos! I filed a RBN1 form but my gross income doesn't exceed 30k. Do I need to file a form 12 if I made a loss? Thanks!

[@PavolCeluch]

Does peer-2-peer income from platform such as Mintos count as income or cgt ?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Pavol - p2p would most likely be taxed under income tax rates. We always suggest double checking with revenue if you're in doubt! - Ste

[@digidimasta]

Had no idea about medical insurance relief. You saved me few hundred backs and also I can trade this knowledge with colleagues for a free pint :)

[@TheLearningsReport]

Make sure you send those free pints our way Dmitrii! 😉 Glad this was able to save you a few quid. Cheers, - Ste

[@mohamedaymen1030]

@@TheLearningsReport For deliveroo job I make form 11 or 12

[@RedMosquito2009]

Great videos! For the "selling t-shirts on Amazon" example could you answer the following questions.... 1. I understand that the Form 12 'sign and submit' is for the previous tax year (eg 2020 submission in Oct 2021). How does someone calculating liable tax for current year and make a payment? 2. Correct assumption that 'Amount of Income' is net profit? eg sales less costs of buying raw materials Thanks!

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Red Mosquito, Glad you like the videos! 1. This was something I was looking at recently, actually. There are certain rules around preliminary tax. You either pay 90% of the current year's tax (which you will have to estimate for the full year), 100% of last year's tax liability or 105% of the pre-preceding year. In your case, do you have a tax liability from last year? There is more information here: www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/guide-to-self-assessment/what-is-preliminary-tax.aspx. You can make a payment on MyRevenue for this. 2. My best guess is that that is correct, there is no section to deduct expenses from this income. Let me check with Revenue on that one and get back to you to fully clarify. Also, to note: make sure that the expenses and costs are allowable. More information here: www.revenue.ie/en/starting-a-business/claiming-a-deduction-for-expenses/index.aspx Hope this helps- any other questions let us know! - Cian

[@RedMosquito2009]

@The Learnings Report thanks for that. We have no 'side hussle' tax liability for 2020 as my wife started selling some craft stuff this year (2021). The net profit (in line with allowable costs) in 2021 is quite small so I think with her allowances there is no/minimal payment required and to file for this next year.

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@RedMosquito2009 Good stuff. Always worth double checking with revenue directly if you have any doubts! Good to have a record of your query in case there's any follow-ups down the line. - Ste

[@shaminfernandes6464]

Hi Guys, thanks for the video. It was certianly helpful. Question for a sole trader who has not earned any income in 2023, but had expenses for their business. Although cannot fill form 12 online, is there any further declaration to be done?

[@reginawalsh3430]

Hi do you have video on form 12 for air bnb I am a full time paye worker. Thank you

[@clairekeohane9944]

So for deemed disposal... I file every year or just on year 8 (with the figure filed being the totality of dividends earned in them 8 years?)

[@entity97]

Is reselling on depop income tax or cgt and where to file it

[@glennpurtill3692]

Hey, I am looking to fill a form 12 this year. Where would premiums go under from selling options contracts?

[@LaylaVitoriaEuropa]

Thanks guys, what about Dividends from stocks from other european companies ?

[@caoimheobrien1525]

With Revolut's new flexible accounts would that fall under form 12 or capital gains tax ? Are there any tax exemptions for investments with form 12 ? Like for any dividends etc

[@firekitt]

Great video! If you are receiving DSP payments are these excluded from the €5000 self employed earning ceiling?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Kathleen, thanks for the feedback and the comment. So my understanding is that it depends on the type of DSP received. Some are declared already to revenue , some you'll need to include yourself. The link below gives a solid explainer and is worth a read-through if you haven't already. www.revenue.ie/en/jobs-and-pensions/taxation-of-social-welfare-payments/taxable-deasp-payments-you-need-to-declare.aspx As far as I can tell though, if the payments you receive are NOT automatically communicated to revenue (i.e. they're payments you need to declare) then they should be counted towards your 5k ceiling. That being said, always best to double check with revenue first if you have any doubts as I'm not 100% on this! Best of luck and let us know how you get on. - Ste

[@marythierryodriscollbelier3266]

For US Dividends paid and transferred into a dollar account (i.e. Revolut), should we calculate the value in euro at the date of acquisition/payment (with the value of dollar in euro of that day)?

[@marythierryodriscollbelier3266]

and is there other tax to be paid when transferring these dollars in euros (aka CGT)?

[@delboy7758]

Great video lads just the information I was looking for I rang revenue and woman on phone was clueless. One question is gains from stake crypto interest or dividend?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Nice one, glad you found it useful. And yes, revenue seem to be a little behind when it comes to crypto! So this is a tricky one - to the best of our knowledge & from our own research (& as you've seen yourself, the info is limited), staking rewards are taxed as 'income' i.e your marginal income tax rate (+ USC & PRSI). That being said, there's very little Irish specific info (a lot is borrowed from the ongoing cases in the US) so it remains to be seen how things will develop! We have a video on staking where we run though it in a bit more detail. Feel free to check it out if you haven't already (link below 👍) kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5mbl3pol5Voibs

[@eileendrummond2134]

Need to declare a small farm payment, I'm non dom, only other income is my non taxable in Ireland UK civil service pension what box do I show the non taxable UK civil service pension in

[@egb9156]

Thanks lads, what if trading is your main form of income? Like CFD trading?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Bit of a grey area this one. If you can make the case to revenue that your trading could be classified as income as opposed to capital gains, then you could be liable for income tax instead of CGT. However, you'd need to be able to show that it actually is your main source of income (i.e. you spend the vast majority of your time trading, you've little/no other income that could be seen as PAYE, etc.) To the best of our knowledge, CFD trading itself is generally subject to CGT, but again, if you can show that it provides your livelihood, you may be fall under income tax - but probably worth chatting to a tax advisor on that one. In either scenario, you'd almost certainly be filing a Form 11 (as this income would be over €5,000). If it's less than €5,000, good luck convincing revenue it's your full-time gig! You'll need to register for ROS in order to file a Form 11 - we're actually releasing a video on the Form 11 next week if you're interested. Hope this somewhat answers your question! - Ste

[@egb9156]

@@TheLearningsReport yes since I’m early in my trading career than it would fall under CGT? However if in the years to come I can build it up as my main income then it would be income taxed?

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@egb9156 More than likely, yes. If you reach a point where your whole lifestyle is supported by your trading activities (i.e. it's your livelihood) you can then make the case to revenue that it should be taxed as income. It'll be at their discretion whether you will or not!

[@egb9156]

@@TheLearningsReport great thanks for responding!

[@ikid1217]

It’s my first year signing up for this and I made no income in the previous year what do I do

[@seanconroy974]

hey just wondering do I pay tax on bonds that I buy

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Sean - great Q and one I'm not 100% on, but my understanding is that income you receive as a bond holder is subject to income tax, however there may be exceptions depending on who and where you buy the bond. e.g. Irish vs Foreign, etc. As a reference: "Irish government bonds are exempt from capital gains tax in the hands of individuals. For this asset class, income, rather than capital gains, tends to be the main source of investment return in most periods. Income tax at your appropriate rate is payable on the income received from Government Bonds. Gains on the government bonds of other countries may be liable to capital gains tax as well as income tax." www.oneview.mercer.ie/content/mercersubdomain/global/en/oneview/how-to-save-and-invest/tax-on-saving-and-investments.html

[@matthewbyrne8196]

When submitting income from other work (amazon t-shirt sales etc.) can you write off some of the incurred expenses (materials etc) against tax? If so, what does that get filed under? I'm looking at filing income for THIS year (2021) and while I can input my additional income, I don't have any options under "Your job" to claim expenses. Thanks

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Matthew. As expenses vary with the nature and extent of the self-employment, there is no complete list of all allowable business expenses. The best rule of thumb to use is to only deduct costs which were incurred 'wholly' and 'exclusively' from the running of your business. The following are the main allowable expenses in most cases: Materials (supplies costs) Motor running costs (portion applicable to business) Depreciation of machinery or equipment Insurance relating to the business Telephone (portion applicable to business) Lighting and heating (for business and not domestic use) Advertising Bank charges Stationery Van/Car leasing So you should be able to deduct at least some of your raw material costs. Probably best to consult revenue on it to get a final number! Re: filing - if the income was generated this year, you technically don't need to file until next year (2022). You may still be liable to pay preliminary tax on your 'expected' income, however. Info below: www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/guide-to-self-assessment/what-is-preliminary-tax.aspx Section 55 of the Form 12 is where you'd likely add the expenses. (for the digital form, look for 'deductions & expenses') www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/documents/form12.pdf - Ste

[@matthewbyrne8196]

@@TheLearningsReport thanks ste. Expenses would be wholly incurred as a result of the income earned. They'd be monthly server costs. Good to know it's not until next year. Thought I seen a tiktok of yours suggesting this year's gains were due now (last week).

[@TheLearningsReport]

So the distinction is between capital gains and income. Both are filed the year AFTER the gain or income is generated, but capital gains need to filed by October 31st while income needs to be filed by Nov 17th (if filing digitally). For PAYING the tax, that happens this year. Capital gains need to be paid by Dec 15th while preliminary tax on income (which may be applicable in your scenario) is due now, so I’d look into your preliminary tax liability sooner rather than later! Drop revenue a message if confused about your specific liability. 👍🏻

[@siliconsibling2930]

Hi, when filling out the Emp/Off/Pen Not subject to Paye deductions is the amount of income equal to profit ?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hi Silicon Sibling, Yeah, you add the profit to that section. Make sure you're aware of what goes into the profit and what you can claim as expenses. Leaving Revenue's guidance as a link at the bottom. Also, I'd recommend keeping a record of receipts and your calculations in case Revenue after inquire. - www.revenue.ie/en/starting-a-business/claiming-a-deduction-for-expenses/index.aspx - Cian

[@siliconsibling2930]

@@TheLearningsReport Thanks for you swift reply Cian, I was running online classes, I assume I can put the running costs of my website and a premium zoom plan as expenses ?

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@siliconsibling2930 More than likely, yes, but double check with revenue or your tax advisor to be safe 👍

[@teresabarrett1857]

Very helpful guys! Question! My husband and I are both PAYE employees but I inherited a tenancy, not enough extra income for self assessment (form 11) but can I submit/amend form 12 a few times in the tax year or just one submission in Nov? And should I declare dividends in net or gross value? Only about €200/year after DWT! Thanks

[@medinaman2106]

Extremely well delivered & comprehensive information. One question, under "non paye income" which sub category do you think I should use for income from crypto staking, air drops, blockfi interest etc ?. txs

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Medina, Thanks for watching and glad you found it helpful. Good question, I haven't seen any specific legislation on staking (more below), air drops or blockfi interest in Ireland but I believe it would be considered income as that's how most other countries seem to be treating it. In that case, I think the best place to put it is in Other Foreign Income but I would also just raise an enquiry on MyEnquiries to clarify this with Revenue. We have a video on staking here if you are interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5mbl3pol5Voibs Let us know what they say! - Cian

[@liam8399]

I am retired from the public service.I have a small income from a surveying and mapping service I provide .My net income after expenses is only about 1000 euro.Should I be filling out from 12.

[@pabloa8961]

Hello guys! Excellent content, as usual 🚀! Just quick questions, submitting this form as a PAYE taxpayer: 1. Regarding Stocks and ETFs. Should I mention anything or file the GTC form here if I haven’t sold anything nor incurred in any gain? I mean, do I need to declare holding ETFs/stocks even if I haven’t realised any gain? 2. Is it OK to file “older tax returns” from previous years? Is there any problem with that? I mean, considering they will be filed way past the corresponding date. Thank you very much!

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Pablo, Thanks for watching. 1. You don't need to declare them if you haven't made a gain. If they are paying dividends, you'll need to declare these on the on your income tax return. 2. Why would you want to file older returns? Have you forgotten to file? If you forgot to file something, I would check with Revenue on My Enquiries to see if there is any late filling fee and to ensure that you needed to file. - Cian

[@pabloa8961]

Hello Cian! Thanks a lot for your reply and clarifications. For the year 2020, I had only PAYE income. I understand that in this case I am not obliged to present a return, correct? It was just to claim Health Expenses/Work from Home relief. Is this still possible? Or as the due date has passed already, would it be better just letting this go?

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@pabloa8961 hey Pablo, correct on the 2020 filing. You can claim medical expenses for up to 4 years so it's up to you whether you want to claim for them still. More info here: www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/health-and-age/health-expenses/how-do-you-claim-health-expenses.aspx#:~:text=Receipts%20needed%20in%20order%20to,a%20claim%20for%20health%20expenses. - Cian

[@rodneykeyes7240]

If i earn 3000 in american dividends but pay 800 in interest for loan to have the shares for the dividends. How do you show the interest expense on the form 12. Also a paye worker.

[@reikoxan]

Hey guys i know you covered this before but i cannot find the specific video. CGT - when do you calculate personal exemption? (gains - losses) - personal exeption? or can it be done like (gains - exemption) - losses then bring forward the losses next year? Thanks for all the videos lawds.

[@TheLearningsReport]

Good to see you back! The video we reference this in is Capital Gains Tax btw 👍 In short, the order you need to do the calculation is: 1. Take your net gain/loss 2. Minus PREVIOUS year losses (if applicable) 3. Minus CURRENT year losses (if applicable) 4. Minus your €1,270 exemption 5 equals chargeable gain/loss (taxed at 33% if a gain). So unfortunately, losses can only be carried forward once everything else has been accounted for!

[@reikoxan]

@@TheLearningsReport cheers lawds can i get a OH yeah!

[@sarahlynch3597]

Hi guys, when trying to request the end of year statement or go to file a form 12 a message appears that I cannot proceed as I was registered for income tax during the year. I have a small business on the side of a full time job. I have made under 1450 on the small business and when I called revenue they said to file a form 11( because I was on income tax) . After watching both the form 11 video and this one it seems the form 12 would be more suitable for my situation. Should I try calling revenue and be removed from income tax or file the form 11?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Sarah, Thanks for watching both videos and well done on the side business! As you said given your income is under €5k, you should file a Form 12 which is simpler. However, there could be other reasons why you might file a Form 11 (e.g. if you received share options from a company). I would call revenue and clarify why they recommend a Form 11 and if they can't and you want to file a Form 12, you can request it. Let us know how you get on. - Cian - Cian

[@ILLYAOn]

Hi Sarah Could you answer did you file form11 or form 12 at the end? What response was from revenue? I have similar situation ...

[@ianmatthews5630]

Great video! Quick question, I was freelancing for 1 month in 2021 and made less than 5 grand, then moved to Payee work for the rest of the year. (Stayed registered for Income Tax I believe) When I follow your video and try to access the Form 12 under Payee services, it says I can't because I was registered for Income Tax during the year. Does this mean I'll need to do it via the paper form and send it in?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Ian, sorry for the late reply on this. So you may have to do it by paper, but before you start (and I realise you may already have done so given your comment is from 9 days ago!) I'd ask revenue via their chat if its possible for them to activate the form 12 for you from their end. That might save you the hassle! Let us know how you go. - Ste

[@_el.guapo_]

Does the €1,270 CGT exemption only applies to capital gain? Or does it apply to dividends too ?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Laurent, - It's only capital gains unfortunately (as dividends are taxed as income in Ireland, not capital gains). - Ste

[@moriain26]

Hi Lads. Great stuff. I had rent a room income less than 5k in 2021. I declared it in the exempt section on form 12. Is that correct? Also is there anything else I need to do? I am a paye worker. Thanks

[@cruisemaster2980]

Hi Thanks for your question. Did you get the answer of your question? I have a similar question. I am a PAYE employee and is plannning to rent a room out of my property and avail 'Rent - a -room relief'. I learnt that if a person is a PAYE employee with no other source of income and the only income will be through renting a room frrom his/her property, the person needs to fill a FORM -12 at the time of submitting the annual tax return. Rent a room relief allows a person to earn upto 14000 euros TAX FREE in one complete year. As I am a PAYE employee, should I still fill the FORM - 12 ? I was told by 'CITIZENS INFORMATION' customer care agent to fill FORM 12 if I have to declare the rental income and wants to avail the rent a room relief. Please share your experience as it will be greatly helpful to me. Thanks a lot. Best Regards

[@cutecutiexxx]

What do you do if you’ve made less than the €5K cut off but I was also in receipt of the PUP before this job?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hi Aine - Good question, and in short, I'm not entirely sure on this one! My understanding is that you don't need to take any extra action other than declaring any extra non-paye income, as per normal via the Form 12 (excluding the PUP payments). Revenue should have a record of your PUP payments in the system already, so I don't think you need to declare that as 'income', as it's a DSP payment. (This part is worth checking with revenue though - please let us know what they say!) According to revenue's website (links below), tax on your 2020 PUP payments are going to be taken from your tax credits over 4 years starting Jan 2022 (or you can pay it outright yourself before then if you wish). 2020: www.revenue.ie/en/life-events-and-personal-circumstances/pup-tax-liability/how-pup-received-in-2020-is-taxed.aspx For PUP payments received in 2021, these will also be taken from your tax credits, but will be taken 'immediately' i.e. the credit reductions should already have been applied. 2021: www.revenue.ie/en/life-events-and-personal-circumstances/pup-tax-liability/how-pup-received-in-2021-is-taxed.aspx In both cases, it seems like you don't need to take any other action, but as I said, I could be very wrong on this, so definitely double check! - Ste

[@davidev9107]

If I have a rental income under 30k , I have to apply form 12 or have i to subscribe in ROS? Thanks

[@pranjal7293]

Hey guys! Excellent video as usual. Could you tell where does crypto staking income (e.g. from BlockFi) should go on this form? Would it be 'other foreign income'?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Pranjal, Thanks for watching. Yeah, it's not very clear on the form but other foreign income is our best guess. 👍 - Cian

[@brendangleeson2786]

Great video! Do you actually pay the tax required before submitting the form though, or do revenue take it some other way? Thanks again!

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Brendan, thanks for that! yeah you need to pay your tax in the year you generate the income, and then file the following year. So payment is due by Oct 31st of this year (for example, 2021) and then you would file by Oct 31st of next year (submit the form in 2021). However, if you're declaring investing capital gains, payment for that isn't due until Dec 15th of the year you sell (but the filing date the following year is still Oct 31st). Our video on CGT gives a decent overview if you haven't already watched! Link below: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fouUhKeniMt4l6c - Ste

[@brendangleeson2786]

@@TheLearningsReport Great, Thanks for the detailed response!!

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@brendangleeson2786 No worries, enjoy the weekend!

[@nishantbafna9333]

Hello. Is it mandatory/compulsory to file the income tax return in the following circumstances:- 1) Only salary income (PAYE). Yes or No ? 2) Income did not cross 13000 Eur. Yes or No ? 3) PAYE (tax already deducted) but my income was less than 13000 EUR, and therefore I am eligible for the tax refund. Yes or No? And my last question is do we have to claim income tax refund for the year 2021 before 31st Dec 2021? Is it the last date? Thanks in advance. Cheers!

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hi Nishant - for all your questions, is the income you’re referring to all PAYE? If so, then no, your employer is responsible for pretty much all that info. However, in order to avail of certain tax deductions or reliefs (such as medical expenses) then you may wish to file a form 12 anyway - thats up to you. - Ste

[@TheLearningsReport]

For the refund date, the form 12 filing deadline is the same regardless: Oct 31st. But a reminder that you file for the current year, the next year. So: 2020 - filed in 2021 2021 - filed in 2022 2022 - filed in 2023 Etc.

[@nishantbafna9333]

@@TheLearningsReport I appreciate your response. Thank you very much.

[@nishantbafna9333]

@@TheLearningsReport Thanks for replying.

[@dlombard94]

Hi Guys, great video, so what are the deadlines for paying your income tax and file your form 12? example, I'm in profit of €1500 from selling an ETF in February of 2022. Do I Have until 2023 to pay the tax and file return?

[@sagicit6500]

Thanks for help

[@tonyoconnell1]

How does one claim for avc ,

[@MyNamesJustRob]

If your capital gains are less than the exemption do you need to file a tax return?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Howiya Rob - just to make sure you're on the same page here, this video is re: Form 12 and income tax right? So you wouldn't be using this to declare you CGT gains (and consequently your exemption either). But if your Q is just generally speaking, and to answer it, yes you still need to file even if your below the €1,270 exemption. You'll most likely use a CG1 form for that (unless you also have income to declare outside of your PAYE job). Revenue require you to file regardless!

[@MyNamesJustRob]

@@TheLearningsReport Thanks for the reply! It was a general question. I have a PAYE job so I will just need to file a CG1 by Oct 2022 to declare CGT for 2021? Right?

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@MyNamesJustRob Yep spot on!

[@MyNamesJustRob]

@@TheLearningsReport Thanks for the help!

[@ponie234]

@The learning curve - thanks for posting the video. Very helpful indeed. I have a question about some income my wife has started to earn doing a small bit of digital marketing for a local business. She's a stay at home mom - the company didnt want to take her on as an employee so she invoices them for the few hours each month - fixed amount 400e per month. Can i account for this income on an end of year form 12 or does my wife need to register as self employed. its hard to forecast howlong the work will last for - it could a few months or indefinitely. Max she will earn in a 12 month period is 4,800e. Thanks in advance

[@gos-nl8br]

Question. If a person was trading actively, maybe one or twice a week, could the income be considered for income tax, usc and prsi rather than CGT ? Again the revenue info is vague. Cheers for videos and keep it up

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey - thanks for that! So yea, we've gotten this before. I think the answer is roughly "if trading is your primary source of income, and you're doing it a lot (similar to what a regular job would be time-wise) then there's a case to be made for income tax. For most sources we've come across, the above seems the most consistent answer. Of course, it'll be down to the individual to make this case to revenue should it ever be questioned I would imagine!

[@gos-nl8br]

@@TheLearningsReport cool thanks

[@TheGiovannisilv]

Hi guys i need to submit a form 12 for year 2023 but i was registered for income tax ros for that year and ever i ceased i still can't do it. Any suggestions please?

[@ConamaraCounty]

On the Paper form that I received, just at the end, it says that you are liable for a fine of EURO127K if you make a mistake which they call "Negligence/Fraud" so it looks like all stick and no carrot.

[@deanodonnell5702]

Hi Lads, thanks very much for the video. In the 'other income' section, what would I press for paying staked crypto? Also, if the value of my staked crypto is under €1,270, do I still need to declare a form 12 income tax return?

[@TheLearningsReport]

What's up Dean, no bother glad you found it useful! So good question, and one I'm going to have deal with personally myself! One caveat - we did a video on staking crypto in Ireland, and how it should be taxed. In short, there's no real definitive answer on it but most resources would indicate that it will like fall under 'income' from a tax standpoint (but there are arguments to be made on whether it should or shouldn't be taxed as income as opposed to CGT or DIRT) so just be aware of this when filing your return - you may want to seek professional advice if you have any major concerns about it! Either way, where you actually input it into the form I don't think will make a huge difference as it will all be taxed as income so the rate will be the same. I'd personally be looking to add it in either: - Untaxed income arising in the state - Emp/off/pen not subject to income tax - or maybe even 'trading profit'? The middle option (emp/off/pen) allows you to add a description, hence why it might be good to add it there and just say 'staking crypto rewards' as the description just to clarify with revenue. Again, this could be wrong so you could always drop revenue a message (that being said, ive done this myself and they just quote the info thats already on the website, which isn't a lot!). Lastly, your €1270 exemption doesn't apply to the Form 12 in most cases, because that exemption is only for CAPITAL GAINS and not INCOME. Staking rewards from our research (and again, warning this could be wrong) seem like they should be charged under INCOME tax rates as opposed to CGT, and thus, your exemption isn't applicable. Similar to dividends that you might receive from holding a stock: your dividends are taxed as income (marginal income tax rate either 20/40% + USC & PRSI), but if you sell the stock, you pay CGT at 33%. You'd only declare the dividend income on a Form 12, not the capital gains received from selling the stock itself. (CG1 form for that). Lot of info to digest there, so feel free to shout if you have any clarification questions. - Ste

[@deanodonnell5702]

@@TheLearningsReport Ste, you’re an absolute gent for getting back to me with such a detailed response. One last q, how do you go about calculating the cost of one staked coin ?

[@TheLearningsReport]

​@@deanodonnell5702 No worries, Dean. When you say the 'cost' of the staked coin, the cost would be whatever you paid for it in the first place, and the value of it at the time you bought it. But when it comes to finding out the value of what you owe from a tax standpoint, you'd need to see: 1) what your staking rewards were (on a daily basis) i.e your daily 'dividends' (not dividends, but just for clarity sake) 2) The value of the coin in question on each day you received the reward - this is where things get complicated as you'll have a lot of calculations to do most likely! 3) You would then calculate your marginal income tax rate for each day you received a payout. As you can probably guess, this is why crypto tax services are popping up all over the place, as doing the process manually will be a major pain!

[@deanodonnell5702]

@@TheLearningsReport thanks so much lads. I would need to fill out this form 12 by the end of this year as I started receiving staked coins this year ?

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@deanodonnell5702 Hey Dean, so no you have until October 31st of next year to FILE the return, but you'll need to PAY any tax due by October of this year 👍

[@amedeovisocchi9109]

where do you buy ETF tax on this form?

[@0540455g]

I filed a Form 11 last year when I should have filed a Form 12. How big a deal is this?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Gráinne - no issue at all, as the form 11 is essentially just a longer form 12. Technically, everyone could file a Form 11 if they wanted to, but it would just be an unnecessary hassle as most wouldn't be required to 👍

[@ricardotriana1241]

Hi Guys, What about Celsius, i used to have like lets say 500usd there, just recevied 15usd in stake. Since Celsius filled out bankruptcy, the assets got frozen in the account. Should this frozen stake also be in form 12? what about the 500 ? Thanks in advance

[@paullhenriquee]

When should I submit this form?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Paulo, For the electronic version, you can file on Revenue.ie through your MyAccount. If you filled it the paper version, you can scan it and submit it through My Enquiries or else send to the address here: www.revenue.ie/en/contact-us/customer-service-contact/collector-generals-division.aspx - Cian

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Paulo, think Cian misread your comment. As we mention in the video, you submit it by Oct 31st the year after you earn the income in question. So income earned this year (2021) would be filed next year (2022) - Ste

[@paullhenriquee]

That’s great, thank you very much!’

[@tomgillen4502]

Hi Guys. I filed my CG-1 form. As a dual citizen I had to pay Net Investment Income Tax to the US. In order to try and get that back and not be double-taxed do you know which form I can use and if I can do this online? Any info would be great. Thanks.

[@deanodonnell5702]

Hi Guys, I only started staking my crypto in July 2021, do I still need to fill out a Form 12 as the deadline is 31/10/2021 for 2020 income, not 2021 income?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Correct - you just need to pay the tax you owe by Oct 31st of this year, then file by Oct 31st of next year!

[@deanodonnell5702]

@@TheLearningsReport If I pay the tax for my crypto, do I put in the full amount I’ve earned from my staked coins on revenue and revenue figures the income tax I pay it I work out the income tax and type that amount into revenue ?

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@deanodonnell5702 so, for chargeable individuals there are rules for preliminary tax. Chargeable individuals need to pay preliminary tax on income for 90% of the full year (or 100% previous year, 105% pre previous year). Further details linked below. It is less clear for non-chargeable/Form 12 individuals. I would raise an enquiry with MyRevenue to double check this (I am registered as a chargeable individual so they would give me a different answer). My thinking would probably err on the side of caution and adhere to the preliminary tax rule. Given this is your first year, you would most likely have to make 90% of your full year. I would estimate what staking rewards you believe you will make in Nov, Dec and then use the estimated total figure. Keep your calculations to show Revenue if they ask (they most likely won't). If you overestimate, you should get a refund the following year. www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/guide-to-self-assessment/what-is-preliminary-tax.aspx Let us know how you get on! - Cian

[@deanodonnell5702]

@@TheLearningsReport thanks Cian. Sorry I think my question wasn’t that clear. I’ve reached the 40% income tax threshold for my job so I’ll be paying 40% on my staked coins. My question is do I put in the 40% of the total amount in revenue for the staked coins I’ve earned or the total 100% amount earned from the staked coins and revenue come back to me with a figure to pay?

[@TheLearningsReport]

@@deanodonnell5702 got it, thanks for clarifying, Dean. You should put the full income amount in and Revenue will calculate the amount of tax due. 👍 - Cian

[@Richiebreedingmules]

Hi Guys great video what happens if you didn't file a form 12 for the previous year as I was only made aware of this today 🙈

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Richie - technically there is a 'penalty' for late filing. (see link below, and scroll down to the bottom section: 5. Calculation of the surcharge. www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-47/47-06-08.pdf My suggestion however, would be to explain the situation to revenue, and as long as you're happy to pay any taxes due when you file, I'd imagine they might be flexible! But again, thats just my guess - it'll be up to revenue. Hope this helps and best of luck! - Ste

[@solanero97]

Thank so much for the video guys, really really helpful, however I was wondering if you could make a video about how to declare income from foreign savings accounts like Trade Republic, Lightyear or Bunq... I guess I need to declare this income on section EU deposit interest, but still I don't really know what i have to write in there :( Many thanks in advance!

[@alanrmurphy]

Is there any reason why when I click on "Review your tax year 2017-2020', that I can't see the option to submit a return? I can see the Statement of Liability but under that I only have 'Enjoyment Detail Summary'.

[@TheLearningsReport]

If you click into statement of liability, does it pop up with a screen/steps similar to what we outline in the video 🤔

[@alanrmurphy]

@@TheLearningsReport Yes, it shows my preliminary end of year statement for 2020 and at the bottom there is a blue button to submit a tax return! Thank you.

[@TheLearningsReport]

Excellent 👌🏼

[@undauntable6456]

If you are day trading do you just fill out the trading profit section in other income? I trade the NASDAQ100 on etoro daily up to 3 times and im not sure how I would pay my taxes on the gains. And if ive made trades that result in a loss can I weigh them against my gains?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hi Undauntable, Do you have a registered business? Trading income is for businesses. You most likely will be liable to Capital Gains Tax which is at a lower rate of 33%. This would mean that you would also have to file a CG1 Form. You can offset losses against Gains to reduce your tax liability with CGT. We have videos explaining both which you can check out here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fouUhKeniMt4l6c kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6DVqJSKjaqDj6s - Cian

[@neerajjoseph8963]

brilliiant !!!!

[@mohamedaymen1030]

please can you help me file my tax as a Deliveroo rider and stack what I should claim and how I do that can you help me to pay my income tax, please is my main job I don't have other income

[@lunacresentmoon]

have you guys ever thought about teaching this to teens. I would have given anything to know this stuff when I was young and for it to be talk in an interesting and simple way you guys do. who know how far I could have gone if I just knew how to do my taxes

[@TheLearningsReport]

Thanks Martina - we second your opinion, it wasn't until after college that we seriously started looking at this stuff! Funnily enough, the motivation for the channel was exactly that - to try make it a bit easier for others, and also, was a good way of forcing us to learn it also :) We haven't looked into anything outside of the channel for the moment, but certainly a good idea! Thanks for the suggestion. - Ste

[@simonjgiveaways]

What's up lads, I pay over 900 euros a month, I make under 40k a year what's going on?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Hey Simon - Hard to know exactly without getting your full personal situation and details, but this link below is for a handy tax calculator that will break down your taxes, and hopefully will give you a better read on how much you're being taxed 👍 Just pop in your gross salary amount (40k or whatever it is) and you should be able to see where your money is going! ie.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

[@jjandkfc8406]

Hey guys, How do you let the revenue know that you are at a loss with your crypto investment ?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Have you actually sold the holdings for a loss? Or are you still holding them but they're just worth less than when you bought them 🤔

[@jjandkfc8406]

I sold some to take out the money and I’m still holding some

[@jjandkfc8406]

However I am at a loss technically speaking

[@deployerreal4223]

Hello folks. I invested in cryptocurrency, but the market has caused me to lose a lot of money. I haven't transferred any money from Binance to my bank account. Should I still declare this somewhere?

[@TheLearningsReport]

Sorry for the late response - big summer off! You don't technically 'lose' the money until you actually sell the holdings. So if you're still simply holding the crypto that has gone down in value, but you haven't sold, then no you don't need to declare anything. If you sold some of the holdings that you're in the red on, then you might be able to offset some of those losses against your gains.