Filters LIE to YOU! How to keep manufacturers accountable?

I've had a bad experience with Baader filters (their new CMOS-Optimized series!) recently, and I want to bring attention to a critical issue with filters in general: they can be worse than their quoted specifications.... and we have no way to know!
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[@1dherbman]

The worst of this is that the manufacturer knows exactly what they are shipping. Spectrophotometers are as critical to optical coating manufacturing as is a tape measure to a carpenter. What they do know is exactly what you stated in the video: Nobody knows any better, so marginal or defective product gets shipped. Every filter should ship with a print of its spectro or at least the option should be given, even at additional cost. I'm fortunate in that I have access to thin film QA equipment and expertise and will be tapping into that to validate my set of filters. Thanks for getting this out there!

[@stilianoskalatzis7491]

You go Cuiv! We need more high profile people like yourself to call out the manufacturers of these items. When we spend $300 and upwards on filters and other accessories we have a reasonable expectation that they will perform as advertised. Thank you very much for the video and the crusade so to speak. Keep fighting the good fight.

[@ferenc-x7p]

Not just that, but there should be far more overwatch by agencies who deal with consumer protection. Imagine a cell phone brand tries similar, they'd go bankrupt overnight. Why? Because there are 100s of millions of users and 100s of thousands of people getting their hands on experience. We don't have that luxury and that equates to predatory behavior by companies.

[@christopherbaker8621]

Major filter resellers, like here in the USA ... OPT, Woodland Hills, Highpoint, Agena, etc. ... should offer to analyze the filters they sell before shipping or for a small fee, provide the analysis data with the filter when shipped. If they run across an out-of-spec filter, they should send it back to the manufacturer and only ship out quality products.

[@PaceWithGrace]

I would pay a bit extra for this service!

[@delphys75]

@@PaceWithGrace I think it's up to them to verify their products! Si j'achète une voiture et qu'elle ne fonctionne pas ou mal, ce n'est pas à moi de payer le concessionnaire pour qu'il verifie ses véhicules avant la vente...

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

In Poland, one major dealer has started a pilot program to have the Antlia ALP-T filters they sell measured via spectrometer. It's the right idea.

[@TheMje1963]

I know Agena does this with their scopes, Each on that I have purchased from them have gone through an inspection and a report is put in the box with the scope. Would be nice if they did that with filters

[@PaceWithGrace]

@@delphys75 I agree but my experience with car dealerships is they don't do much QA. Now there are consumer protection laws but they might be hard to enforce for internet / international sales.

[@wesleydonnelly2141]

I don't want to come across as sycophantic, but honestly, you are the most educational astro-nut we have in our wonderful hobby, impo. I have learned more from watching you these last couple of months, than I have from all other astro channels combined, Cuiv. Thanks so much Cuiv, love the channel! Wes, England.

[@skywatcherca]

Mr. Culv, the primary reason I watch your videos, is due to the HONESTY! Great work my friend, wonderful. Your videos have value. I did in the past watch one of the major equipment reviewers, and he just says what the companies (who send him FREE equipment) want - in other words, his reviews are all Bull Shit. So, please, keep up the great work - I'm a subscriber and watching. Thanks.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you Jonathan!

[@davidaylsworth8964]

“The unending quest to be hated by manufacturers.” It’s good to have a purpose. I’ve wondered at times if the filters I’ve gotten for my system are meeting the advertised specifications. I think a service that measures actual samples of filters would be great. I truly think that a service that supports the amateur community would have value added for the manufactures as well as the community. Great video again Sir.

[@mojojojo7923]

These companies talk the talk but don’t walk the walk ! This is the best astrophotography Video I have seen on you tube. Thank you !!!!

[@brod5352]

Hi Cuiv. Thank you for this video. I think filter manufacturers need to supply a 3rd party independent certification that the filter you are getting has been tested to be effective at the bandpass ranges it was advertised. Otherwise we are just taking their word for it. As as we all know, just about every manufacturer will cut corners where ever they can to make a buck. Some companies I think are little more reputable and care about the quality of the product they sell. And I think we call all think companies you have done business with who go above and beyond all the time. Moonlite Focusers is one of them. Totally impressed with the product and the service they supply. And then there are those you can't even get to respond to an email. And that's the only way they give you to communicate with them. I have always wondered about filters I've purchased and if I'm really getting the quality I'm paying for. The Filter Manufacturers need to band together and create an ISO standard. As one bad filter manufacturer is going to tarnish the reputation of all the rest. ;o)

[@Pjx1989]

The problem is that this is not legally enforceable. Just think if, for any bit of spec, any manufacturer had to provide external certifications. This would apply to batteries capacity for each mobile phone, screen luminosity or contrast ratio for any TV, power consumption for any home appliance. This is just infeasible. One company could provide such certification spontaneously as a form of guaranty for the client, but guess who’d pay for that service? The law however says that it’s a crime to advertise something differently from what it is. But basically it’s up to you (or a consumers union) to prove that

[@CaryChleborad]

"As one bad filter manufacturer is going to tarnish the reputation of all the rest." ROFLMAO... just one? try most of them. Most of them have been scamming the market for years.

[@edwardgill1042]

After 45 years in engineering and building construction you have reaffirmed the old motto, "You get what you inspect". Thanks Cuiv. I expected this from the Chinese low cost sellers but not from Baader, sad.

[@murrayjohnson5236]

Good for you Cuiv! No matter what is produced these days it seems that quality assurance has taken a distant back seat. As you say, manufacturers MUST be held accountable for deficiencies of their products. It's only because of people like you that things will improve.

[@thimitri1]

My gosh, Cuiv... the astro lottery is strong with you.. sorry you're going through all this and glad that you share your experience for us to learn.. Happy Holidays to you and all your family...

[@Astrolavista]

Well done for getting the filter independently tested! Bit of a shocker that we can't trust the suppled transmission chartsl but I'm glad you're here to give these companies a kick up the bottom Cuiv! I have no idea what's going on with QC lately but it causes so much stress when things simply don't work as advertised. I'm pleased the retailor looked after you, and keep up the great work! :)

[@paullinski9867]

Cuiv, thank you for your in depth analysis! I truly appreciate the fact that you are telling it as it IS and not blowing smoke up our butts in a simple effort to get sponsorships and free gear. I have many KZbin astrophotographers that I watch but your videos, and your very honest opinions, and your data gathering are what I respect most out of all of the folks putting out astrophotography KZbin videos. Thank you for the video, thank you for shedding light on the topic and not being afraid to tell these manufacturers, "I see what you are/are not doing here...step up your quality control and give us what we paid for!" Hopefully you have yourself a happy holiday and a great new year!

[@nxu5107]

Cuiv , one of the many but very important thing I like is you don’t mince your words. Thanks for the honest insight. Have a peaceful holiday if you get to it.

[@febsat]

Wow, I guess I never imagined these very expensive filters not performing to design spec. Thanks for doing a video like this. If you start to promote and show that it is possible for the average astrophotographer to get his/her filters analyzed, the manufacturers will surely sit up a take notice. I like the way you don't shy away from the facts and evidence.

[@PaoloBanci]

I bought a Baader coma corrector 2 years ago. Together was the M48 ring to connect it to the Canon. I had never used it and tried to connect my DSLR. After a few minutes the camera fell out of the telescope. The connector had unscrewed from the camera. The only thing they told me was that I had to hear the click. I also heard the click because the adapter reaches the stop. With a cheap Chinese adapter it works .... Congratulations Baader!

[@tmrdarkstar85]

We need to hold these companies accountable Cuiv. I had an Issue with my 2600. ZWO refused for 3 months to RMA the camera. Only after I took to their social media posts telling people about the issues, how ZWO handled the situation "which was blame my stellarvue scope or claim 300s NB1 was overexposed" and that I sold all my ZWO gear an will never own another piece of their equipment again. As well as they might be better off going with a different manufacturer due to the horrible customer service on honoring their Warranty policy . Only after this they finally offered to RMA the camera. Which was too late I already sold it and ordered my QHY 268m. Because 3 months of fighting to get the camera RMA'd or refunded I was done. Disgusting when we spend $2300+ on a camera

[@jonathanr2830]

Very good, candid work. One should always at the very minimum expect to receive the basic intended function and quality of the product for which the manufacturer has advertised and sold and for which the purchaser has paid good, hard-earned money. That is the bottom line that manufacturers must always honor in dealing with their customers and prospective customers. Success or failure as a company depends upon customer trust, quality products as advertised or implied, and fair pricing. That is as it always should be. Success or failure is something earned in business. Thank you very much, Cuiv, The Lazy Geek! Great video done with honesty, hard facts, and true class. Two thumbs up!

[@AmyAstro]

THANK YOU! Excellent video. Filter are expensive, we buy on their specs. We depend on their truth and honesty. Thank you for putting them on notice!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks Amy! Exactly - we're spending a lot on pieces of glass that we have to take on faith...

[@ld3519]

Hi Cuiv, Thank you for speaking out on this. I had commented here yesterday (with a lot of detail) regarding a company I purchased a set of Baader filters from, and how each filter was opened and "checked", as the company later stated. Not sure where the post went, maybe I shouldn't have used the company's name (??) but aside from that. Thank you for making this known. Your videos are always a great source of information. Thank you, and keep the videos coming.

[@gregerianne3880]

Sorry for your bad experience with these, Cuiv, but thank you very much for looking out for us and making us aware of these kinds of things! Your efforts are much appreciated and valued. :-)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

My pleasure Greg, and thanks for your support!

[@claudiotenreiro3111]

Thanks a lot for your video and the analysis of the products. To me is the typical issue of highly demanded stuff, as it happened in recent years with most of the astronomy equipment, so quality control is coming into second place. For filters all the manufacturers should give the copy of the spectral response, for each filter they sell. And for optics a signature of the person in charge of the test and, a copy of the actual images of the results, in quality of the mirrors and so on. Responsible manufacturers do that. I realize that some sellers did create their own quality control benches, so that assure you what you are buying. It is annoying what is happening but, as more comes to light the better.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Exactly that...

[@jackthecat6225]

I wonder why some manufacturers do not seem to see the competitive advantage to be gained by including a brief analysis of each filter they ship. It would be a value add that customers would probably be will to pay for. I'm surprised it's not already done by someone.

[@tjeyko40]

Thank Cuiv! Great video. I've got a an older Celestron OIII I picked up on sale that I think is actually manufactured by Baader, but it's definitely not a narrow pass filter. More of a visual OIII filter, I think . I think Farpoint Astro used to offer testing service for filters for free, but I don't know if they do anymore. It would certainly be nice to be able to have our filters tested to see if we are getting what we paid for. We all appreciate the informative videos, and I hope there is a way that we amateurs can get our filters test to see if they meet their specs!

[@woody5109]

Thanks for this Cuiv, I’m new to this so I’m just starting to fall into that black hole by purchasing filters. I’m hopelessly hooked..love your videos. Canada says hi 👋

[@thomasbardenwerper9365]

This confirms what's I've read many times about Badder: they're extremely hit or miss - very poor quality control. Therefore, I have always avoided their gear. Thank you for pulling the strings to prove it!

[@fdear001]

Very interesting… Thank’s for sharing your knowledge! After watching you video I wanted to check my own filters and was quite happy that I made the right decision to go for Astronomik filters. Those are always measured before delivery :-) They come with a sticker of the individual transmission which is >= 92% for all of my 6nm narrowband filters (Ha, Oiii, Sii). Also maybe worth mentioning they already provide a service for transmission measurements if you can‘t wait for the service in France to become available?

[@Pjx1989]

Wow Cuiv. First of all nice to meet you. I was literally going to buy a narrowband filter set in the next weeks and… well… you really scared the crap out of me 😣 What’s even more serious is that, at least here in Italy and (I think) the EU, such behaviour is considered a FRAUD and can be prosecuted by law! What you are discovering is quite serious stuff!

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Good to see the newtonian is back! That means your back must be healing. I just picked up these filter too. I purchased the 31mm unmounted 3.5nm and 4nm filters but they are not the high speed filters. Ha looks good and so does S2 but have not been able to try the Oiii yet because of the moon. About two years ago I purchased an Oiii filter and it had horrendous halos. I sent the images and at first they said it was just normal. But I had a friend at a local observatory that had the exact same filter and we tried it side by side with mine and it did not create halos. So when I showed them side by side photos they then replaced it.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, it's hard to convince a manufacturer that a filter is defective...

[@spunbearing]

Thank's Cuiv, that's some useful information. Hope these manufacturers step up their game. I'm looking to get some filters in the future and will be avoiding the garbage now.

[@astrofalls]

Respect! So much equipment being sold (even premium) has non existent quality assurance. I’ve been burned many times before by false expectations and way overpriced products (RH200, paramount MyT). Keep fighting the good fight

[@OtherWorldExplorers]

As a budding amateur I never would have noticed. I greatly appreciate your diligence and knowledge on this subject

[@jamesp5408]

Thank you so much for this video. I've delayed a move into narrowband for more than a year for fear of its complexity and because of the costs involved in decent filters. A few months ago, I finally decided to make the leap and opted for expensive, but very well-reputed filters produced by Chroma. With the filters, they provide individual filter spectrometry results in terms of both frequency and transmission: this totally matches up with my experience, and it validates my decision to go with a more expensive option.

[@peterlaubscher3989]

Many thanks. This will be an interesting service - amazing that spectrometers are now within reach of the public. I have an old set of Baader filters - they are not particularly narrow [maybe 7nm or 8nm?] and I am happy with the results, but maybe I'm not getting the best results. As you say, it is impossible to know. I'd certainly send my filters to someone for assessment - at least then you know what to expect. if the filters are good, then you know you have to improve your technique. I'll be following this topic with huge interest.

[@markwelsh9068]

Excellent video Cuiv. I am keen on the Baader Contrast Booster for my Achromat (for reducing the fringing) but, coming from a tech background, I know what companies can (and do) do - shortcuts, poor quality control and even poor design - and I'm all for holding their feet to the fire (just as we should be doing with our governments right now).

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for the feedback Mark! Broadband filters are much more likely to be fine, fortunately! My videos did cause Baader to actually change their highspeed offering!

[@markwelsh9068]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Why do you say that? A broadband filter response could be just as badly designed and placed in the spectrum if Baader are doing shoddy work. I know it's not perfect by any means but, if people want to have an indication of their filters' doing the job they should, they could always use a prism to provide a spectrum and then look through their filter to see which parts of the spectrum are being affected. Just a thought.

[@randyvee1893]

This is a fact for most products, you are never so perfect on your resume and a product pitch. The quality control and statistical QA program are a must have to confirm they meet the stated requirements. Hence the need for consumer watchdog needs. First I look for locations of manufacturing usa, UK, Germany, Japan, tiawan , and some others . That helps me be less likely to be disappointed. Nice work on the video.

[@mgastronomy]

Thank you for posting this video Cuiv. All the best. Clear skies

[@astronomynotebook]

Merry Christmas Cuiv….always appreciate your videos❤️😊

[@emuhead]

Cuiv, the Astrophotographers Astrophotographer. Brilliant work! The affordable spectrometer would be a game changer. Next would be an affordable way to check the quality of the optics themselves (Wave, Strehl etc).

[@astropot179]

Thank you for sharing this experience and for your efforts you put in question the critical. Completely understand your disappointment. I was satisfied with the quality and the results of my Baader (cmos optimized) narrow band filter set. But yes, I actually do not have a clue about the amount of e. g. oxygen which I am capturing. This hobby is sometimes really on the limit of what you can recommend to someone...

[@valnuke]

Thank you very much for this video. I'm very disappointed, I was just about to buy a narrowband set and I imagined Baader to be a trustworthy source. Please keep making pressure on the manufacturers, this is totally unacceptable.

[@danm3844]

Great video! Thanks for doing your part to hold these manufacturers accountable. These products are extremely expensive and in the end it’s us, the consumers, that lose.

[@truckernige]

a round of applause please ladies and gentlemen… well done Cuiv…

[@arminhaunstetter1125]

Hi. Your videos are great and I'm always looking forward to receiving more information about astrophotography! What I particularly like as a beginner are the videos for the Skywatcher AZ-GTI! As a beginner, it can be used universally! A video about the series with the new ASI AIR PLUS + GUIDING + EAF in EQ mode would also be great! Think exactly the right thing for beginners! PS: Santa Claus brought a Sharpstar 61 EDPH! Keep it up ...... stay healthy and have a happy new year!

[@ysl109812]

So sorry to hear about your bad experience, again. I think I am a bit luckier with my recent purchase of Antlia 3nm 36nm filters. On my F3 Newtonian I recently managed to get pretty clear definition of the Dolphin Nebula with only 70 minutes total in Ha and OIII under Bortle 4 sky. I was pleasantly surprised. Each of the filters I received came with a test graph showing the band pass. I didn't think much when I saw them but now it is very appreciated that the manufacturer would go through the process before shipping their products. All filter manufacturers should do that. Great idea to provide service to astrophotographers the channel to test their filters. I am sure that would push them to be much more careful about their QC.

[@WindyCityAstrophotography]

Really good stuff, Cuiv! You are absolutely right to be very frustrated. Now you've got me curious on my filters, though as I've said they seem to be working quite well. Going to pull some strings with some contacts I have to try to get some testing done.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

If you're happy with the filters you shouldn't worry too much though!

[@WindyCityAstrophotography]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Agreed! But I am curious

[@thomasmastrocinque7132]

Cuiv - You're a damn hero! Thank you for holding companies accountable. I find accountability to be an issue throughout the world in all industries. But specifically, related to this, I recently received a defective Hutech NBZ filter and Hutech refused to replace it. It makes me sick considering the price I paid. So sad but customer service is a thing of the past. Thank you for this. I will support you any way I can. I believe you have a Patreon page - consider me signed up!

[@MrBengourben]

Excellent video. It's probably a much bigger problem than we realise. I had an Optolong l enhance last year. I was sure i was doing something wrong, as I found the Oiii signal to be nearly non existent... compared to what everyone else seemed to be getting online. I've since switched to the l extreme, I know it's a tighter band pass, but it's streets ahead as regards oiii. With this prevailing issue, it can often feel like the imager is doing something wrong. Thanks for pointing this massive problem out.

[@ronlundgren4391]

Thank you buddy for watching out for us!🍻

[@jodyschultz5870]

Thanks Cuiv. Please keep up the good work. It will be very interesting to get more data points once you start testing other peoples filters.

[@gomanastro]

you are great, thanks for going to the trouble to even check these filters out. You would think every filter off the line would be inspected to see if they meet the the spectral criteria. ....that might change things in the production line now after your video.

[@wanderingbrummie]

During lockdown I started thinking about how to check the quality of some cut-off and CLS filters that were provided without a transmission curve. In the end I built a simple inexpensive VIS-NIR spectrometer using an embossed transmission grating and a webcam for a detector. Worked fine, and a good way to pass the time. I’m pretty sure that if I used a higher groove density grating it would have good enough resolution to check narrowband filters. Only real limitation was that the cheap ($10) webcam was badly nonlinear at higher intensities so I had to use low intensity illumination and just average for more scans.

[@thedonahoes]

I just bought a set of Antlia 3nm SHO filters. Each filter came with a test report from their spectrometer showing the maximum transmission and median wavelength. Thinking that should protect me a little bit from the filter lottery. Love the idea of creating a service to validate filters though!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, plus Antlia filters checked by spectrometer in Poland seem to show good quality control!

[@Welkin0711]

Very good video. I see people are writing in the comment section something like "I'd pay some extra money to resellers to check those filters for me before shipping them." Well - No! Why would I want to pay for something that should not be done by a reseller in the first place? A manufacturer should provide proof of spectral analysis with each filter they want to put out to the market. If they don't do that, a reseller should not accept their product. Simple as that. That would force them to do a detailed quality check with spectral analysis for the individual filter. If that's not possible, a reseller should accept a customer's return of goods and pay for the shipping of the package BOTH ways (taken that they will send a good product in exchange).

[@davepastern]

good on you! Can you update us on how the other filters perform after usage/testing and if Baader responds please?

[@jaf6125]

Nice to see someone who is finally putting the word out on a lot of these products that cost the earth in some cases. From mounts, telescopes to filters we are all spending good money on things that are not up for the job just to spend again lol. Not anymore Keep up the good work champ and merry Christmas 🎅

[@davedev5427]

Exceptional investigative work Cuiv. Thanks for sharing. Based on this, I’ll stay away from Baader glass as well. There is no excuse for the terrible QA you saw.

[@marvinwhisman3333]

An absolutely great idea Cuiv. Unless we find someway to hold manufacturers to their advertised specs they will continue to produce the cheapest products they can get away with.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yeah, but one of the comments is telling me 1nm precision is not enough, I'll need to check on that...

[@adamjensen7105]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek 1NM will show up gross errors for sure, allot depends on how steep the cut off is in respect to more marginal filters.

[@davidswinnard7565]

I'm new to this calling. I bought 36mm Baader LRGB filters from a Canadian supplier last August. Two of the four filters had blemishes, one a smudge the other the "congealed hair" blemish you displayed. The supplier, once informed, contacted Baader who responded with: "Honestly, such small blemishes will cause absolutely no affect the image. I suspect that it just needs to be cleaned with a good lens cleaning fluid. That will for sure remove the ‘contaminants’ in the one image, and probably the other as well." One did in fact clean reasonably well (better stretched flats) the blemish didn't. (a can't comment on passbands) Two out of four filters with acceptable "quality assurance". Not good enough really. (Later this week I expect to discover which category a Baader Ha filter falls into. I'm imaging at ~f/4.7) I will follow your spectrometer ideas with great interest. (Upon hearing you describe the bandpass issue I wondered what a DIY specrometer would entail...)

[@Avocettech]

Quality Control is THE issue with much of the astronomy equipment we buy these days. The filters are incredibly difficult to test for us amateurs, but think of the CA problem you drew attention to with your SharpStar 61EDPH II, and the stiction in your AZGTi mount. The UK astro equipment retailer FLO automatically provides a service for testing every Sky-Watcher Esprit Pro refractor that passes through their hands, rather than incurring the costs of returns and refunds when the purchaser finds an issue. Thanks for your pioneering approach with this!

[@chrisb2283]

Based on the velocity of the comments here you have struck a chord with your target audience. And as well you should have sir. This appears to be a clear case of un-monitored measures tend to wander. I love your idea of trying to address the root cause - the monitoring. This, as opposed to just pealing back the veil. It is disconcerting, to say the least, that a manufacturer with a reputation such a Baader would utilize such shoddy quality control. But the fact that it is Baader really underscores the nature of the filter market. Cuiv, thank you for bringing this out in the open and driving towards a root cause solution!

[@davidschaeffer5322]

Thanks for holding these manufactures feet to the fire for us!! For as much as they charge for their equipment we should have confidence that we're getting what is advertised. You da man Quiv!!

[@Barbaria_Sailing]

Again a very important video for the hobby Ciuv. Let’s all weed out the bad apples in the industry one by one. A saying says something like this “A bad reputation is owned forever” and it is some truth to that. But, producers that get called out on KZbin should have the the possibility to respond property. The response and actions should be “in general” and be valid for all customers, not only KZbin stars. Watch the comments and forums for experiences by other people. We want quality!

[@DanielKennedyaeos]

This mirrors my experience with Baader, I had horrible halos with my OIII which they blamed on my optics (fixed by switching to Chroma filters). I also had a coating flaw in my SII which caused light bleed giving me gradients in SII only which were a pain to correct - also fixed when I switched to Chroma. Now where things diverge from your experiences, I am not a highly regarded KZbinr or forum influencer. Teleskop Express agreed with Baader and blamed my system. Baader just started ignoring me. Caveat emptor.

[@lukomatico]

Superb video Cuiv, if I could give it two thumbs up, I would! - Everybody suffers when QC suffers, even the manufacturer! My feeling is that for the amount we pay for these filters, literally as much as Gold by weight in some cases, they should be tested at the factory and rejected if even 10% out of spec. I love the idea of these tests and by extension, having the manufacturers take some real accountability for underdelivering on promised specifications! Thank you again for sharing :-) Luke

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks Luke!

[@ssb73q]

Hi, thank you for providing this video for narrow band imaging. I have been doing narrow band imaging for 50 years. Not long ago I provided a service where I would test narrow band filters using a spectrometer and found that over 60% of commercial narrowband filters were out of spec using a spectrometer. Some narrowband filters are the biggest ripoff in astronomical equipment. Many were from premium filter suppliers. There is another important issue for using narrowband filters with fast optical systems, the bandpass will broaden and shift with fast systems. The best way to use narrowband filters is to use a collimator lens to make the light parallel through the filter and then use a camera lens focused on infinity. Only then will the narrowband filter work properly. Thanks again for giving the astronomical users a heads up.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Wow, do you still have data from those tests? It would be quite interesting to see!

[@sgyeolily]

Thank you for highlighting this. Amateurs like me wouldn’t know since we would expect the filters to perform as claimed. These filters are so so expensive. Don’t manufacturers have some some sort of accreditation process for their products?

[@theyreallnamedgeorge6997]

Excellent video!! Especially for the price of the filters they should be spot on 99% of the time

[@tiagosnightskies]

Thank you for leading the charge on this, Cuiv!

[@frednurk4772]

The role of the vendors is important here. I recently had an issue with a product supplied via Flo in the UK and apart from my upset over the product they were extremely responsive and sorted the issue out. I have had similar issues with other vendors and 3 months later my emails are still being ignored. It really does matter who you buy this gear from.

[@artisorak]

I ordered these filters a couple of days ago, and now this video is recommended to me... I hope the filters I get aren't faulty.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hope they were fine!

[@artisorak]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks for your reply! The filters haven't arrived yet. When I ordered them, the website said that they had only a few left in stock. But I didn't hear from them for a couple of weeks so I asked why the filters haven't arrived yet and they told me that they didn't have them in stock after all and that I'd have to wait until July. I really hope that the filters are ok and that I don't have to send them back and wait even longer.

[@TheCassese]

Thank you for bringing this up Cuiv. A good filter set it’s expensive and having these kind of quality issue is not acceptable. I really like your idea about the spectrometer but it appears we have to do the job that the manufacturer should be doing.

[@jeffreyvictor3678]

TY Cuiv...I was just about to spend $160.00 (US) on a Baader Planetarium 2" Moon and Skyglow filter (FMS-2) and now I'm going to hold off until I hear back from you on this issue.

[@Chris_LSZO]

Thank you very much, I was about to order a f/2 filter set and cancel this process right now.

[@christianvulpescu1398]

Very good video. I have the same problem with the OIII Baader ultra high speed filter. I will send it back to the company. As more as the filters are very expensive, I was disappointed.

[@Astrofotografie]

Good that you made a video about this, Baader planetarium their filters have issues for a long time. ( like a year or 7 already ) 😬

[@bruce150]

Cuiv. I have the same filters in 36 mm. I was wondering why my O and S data seemed non existent. Now I know. The Ha seems to be working well. At least that explains it. Now. Where can we all find actual good - accurate - as advertised filters?!? 😑. Thanks again!

[@DrawsACircle]

This is really a huge problem, you could spend a truckload of $/£/€/Yen and wonder why you cannot achieve the same results as others with the same equipment. You just said it 😊

[@wandaconde3696]

Wow Cuiv! I got a set of those filters a couple of months ago. Same as you, two of them came defective (bad scratches). Luckily Agena Astro immediately stepped in and arranged to get them replaced. Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to image with them yet. We’ll see….

[@OutlandishJourneys]

A great upload and quite the eye-opener! Thanks for sharing your results and experiences...quite agree, for the high price of some of these filters, we should all be expecting a high level of QC from the manufacturers! Would also LOVE to see a review on the Starizona Nexus as I'm contemplating getting one, having enjoyed the Apex with my Esprit 100! Keep up the great work and best wishes from Scotland! :)

[@BarsMonster]

As someone involved in manufacturing of complex optical coatings... I can see how this could happen (both dirt & spectrum shift). It can only fixed by right manufacturing culture, QA, and being ready to scrap NOK parts. All of that = more expenses = higher cost. I myself had bad H-b filter (spectrum shift like you had) - TE also offered free replacement. So TE are the best here :-)

[@sandorhobby9610]

Hello Cuiv, interesting video. I bought a Triad Ultra F3 (brand new and pre-shifted version!) from OPT. It's really well pre-shifted, I measured only Ha with a very high resolution of 0.026nm. Ha is exactly on the transmission-edge of the filter. I also tilt the Filter to left and right. It pass Ha nearly +/- 12°. If you calculate, 11.3° is F2.5. The Filter is described for F3 Fast Telescopes, my Filter is better/faster. At 0° the transmission is about 50%, the edges are very sharp. The Filter is great. I also measured the non-shifted Triad Ultra. The difference between both Filters are really impressive. And: both Filters are great, much better than my Baader 3.5nm Ha. And: the build-quality of Triad Ultra is much higher than the Filters from Baader. (The Baader 3.5nm Ha is a bit pre-shifted, Ha is in the high-transmission-range like the normal Triad Ultra, but the build-quality of Triad is better).

[@nerdybeardo]

Great video! And I agree, these filters are so expensive it's sad that they don't meet specs. Looking forward to seeing that spectrometer!

[@sandb1867]

GREAT video, thank you! It's just incredible that some of these high-end filters cost as much as some brand new camera lenses and what do you get? Halos, coating defects and over-compensated pre-shifted CWL. Had these filters originated from China, you'd get a deluge of sinophobic whaddya-expect, told-you-so or you-got-what-you-paid-for. At these prices, Baader and all the other manufacturers should provide *measured* transmittance curves for each of these filters at 0 deg and the steepest angle of an f2 light cone. This way you know if the filter is good to use for both your fast and slow f/ratio scopes. If they don't provide it, then you know they probably haven't undergone QC. BTW, calling these badder filters may not very good English but appropriate :)))

[@Psychlist1972]

Thanks for this. I have the same CMOS-ready filters (50mm unmounted 3.5/4nm), but not the high speed ones. They were supposed to help prevent halos around stars. I found that OIII still left big halos, despite the marketing. They also weren't even close to parfocal. My OIII images were really weak, but I wasn't sure what was up; with my lack of experience, I figured that's just how OIII was. I bet mine are just like you found with yours. I used them on a FLT91 f/4.75 For my RGB filters, I purchased Astronomik. I also got their Ha at the same time. So far, these have worked out better parfocal-wise, and they seem high quality. I haven't bought their OIII or SII yet, however.

[@astrogirlau]

Way to Cuiv!! These filters are very expensive. Manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves.

[@derekderek2570]

Filters are scary, I've had so many issues with them over my time in this hobby... my favorite filters are chroma, I feel like nothing comes close, but they are soooo expensive and I don't think they have high speed filters yet. I agree there is a level of integrity missing in these companies. I had a bad experience with customer service when my LeXtreme was drastically underperforming.

[@quadbot5229]

Dang Cuiv, almost 20k subs?! Very much deserved! Also nice video quality!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Crazy right?? Thank you!

[@Denny_963]

Merry Christmas, Cuiv!

[@astrocatinfo]

Thanks for your work! It would be great to have those spectrometers… keep us updated please. And Many thanks again for helping the amateur community!!

[@egar4767]

Wow, thanks for your honest review. Many youTubers would not have said it like you did, which turns people off. Thanks for the great info. What you point out is true of many products. We have to hold them accountable.

[@AstroDenny]

Thank you for bringing some of the QC problems in the industry to light (no pun intended). This was always a problem but I feel like it is more so now since they are rushing to get backorders filled. Have a great holiday!

[@DobsonianPower]

Important info. Thank you for sharing. Greetings from Portugal to Japan.

[@Sheilagene2]

This is great! I’m glad you made this video - it gives me a lot more data of what we have been chatting about.

[@adamjensen7105]

Might be interesting to see results for the premium brands like AD and Chroma and see if they meet their 90%+ transmission specifications. We assume they do because we pay for it but who can be fully sure. I would be really interested in getting involved in such an effort within the UK and will follow this with great interest. Am already considering a service to assess the optical quality of telescopes which is also extreamly veriable.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

There are a few that have been measured in Poland and they were according to specs (samples measured showed Chroma having slightly more transmission than Baader)

[@alcosound]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek I suppose that the customers of Chroma are paying for the QC than the actual construction...?

[@paulwilson8367]

These are expensive filters that I have been on the fence with. I’m at F2 with the rasa 8. I note that you are taking a break which is a blow. You and about 2 other guys are who I have picked to learn from. I follow your pixinsight workflows and your equipment setups. Very valuable in this wasteland of KZbin videos. Ha, frivolously speaking, you are too useful to stop doing this so please take whatever amount of drugs are needed to keep yourself at the scope and pixinsight. Best wishes!

[@ergio1]

Another great video with very professional level critique, thank you. I think you are absolutely spot on in the topic… in many situations we might spend more $ on the 7 filters than we do on the actual scope, unreal… I have a baader Ha that is fantastic, however, the Oiii is dodgy for sure… if you get a chance please test the Optolong filters as well. I have a set of LRGB from optolong and I literally been this close to throwing them on the bin…. Great idea on having a set up to test filters locally…!

[@astrodysseus]

Impressive.. Well done to have been through all the trouble to make them measured by Mass Spec. We do have that to the lab.. But we should never have to even think of doing that.. I had rather a good opinion of Baader.. but they should seriously consider changing their QA process or even better like we do with PE with some mounts, to provide users with an actually measured spectrum of the filter.. Side note: I have most of the IDAS including the NBZ, my favorite filter for fast optics and emission nebulae

[@GalaxyArtMedia]

Interesting video Cuiv! I have a baader Ha 7nm , the images that i took with a dslr looked dim, much dimmer compared with optolong l enhance, i am wondering now if my filter has the transmition that was advertised or not.

[@gl2796]

Thanks the video Cuiv! I just bought the same filters and I haven't had time to test them yet. I will definitely try my OIII to make sure it's not defective

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Fingers crossed!

[@0022001050]

Greets from Greece, thank you Cuiv for this video and all your effort.