Final Fantasy 17 FORCED Back to Turn Based Combat After This...

[@BrainWasherAttendent]

JRPG is a term. It’s been 100% clear what it meant for decades. Suddenly people have a problem with it. So annoying.

[@1988M.]

Seriously, everything is racist now. People way too dam soft

[@DogHairDontCare]

They got no problem calling games soulslike though 😅

[@Tigerhearty]

Modes and styles comes and go in and out of fashion just like zombie, historic, or fantasy movies, sometimes there is a drought for a long time and people crave one over the other more, such is just how life is

[@Coldsilfur4]

Thats literally not true... Secret of Mana as a Jrpg was realtime and many other, too. Its like saying west rpgs have to be realtime etc.

[@JMrealgamer]

I know. So silly.

[@aerolord]

That's why I love Octopath Traveller 2.

[@kyleefaren3075]

Shows they can totally modernize turn based gameplay.

[@DiogoJ1]

Yeah, great game, but it still needs to polish some edges, like the lack of an actual final dungeon, and needs to have the characters be more active in story outside of the protagonists chapters.

[@paulstolp6350]

Great game

[@singaporeghostclub]

Yes love tha game

[@DankMemeCenterX]

Final Fantasy isn't the trendsetter anymore. Shifting what the ip was has lost fans of the old and didn't necessarily build a newer audience to a substantial degree. There's a place for both turn based and action oriented in the market but Square gotta figure out what moves to make to regain marketshare like stop taking deals with Sony or bullet fire titles without room to breathe.

[@bryangoncalves4694]

You're spot on! They should have done this with something like drakengard, not with FF...

[@friedchicken4735]

While I liked them most people said 10 or 12 is where the series lost them

[@teneleven2818]

@@friedchicken4735that’s where the turn based system changed and then was replaced. Big mistake by Square Enix. FF10 battle system was good but 13’s wasn’t.

[@SushiGhost97]

I think they can and should do both. The problem is they're doing only one and completely ignoring their own core audience in favor of grabbing the masses. And failing to do so because it took them years to release an actually good action based FF game, that being 7R. And they still lost a significant amount of fans of og 7 in the process by not making it turn based.

[@KikBlava]

If Expedition 33 becomes a competitor to Final Fantasy that would be incredible to see Square's reaction. 😁

[@Suikojunkie]

i want this to happen so bad

[@GoldChocobo77]

Square Enix needs a wake up call. Been disappointing me at every release since FF10-2 and yet I always hope the next game is good. FF16 was so boring. Maybe time to give up on them...

[@getmesomeice]

they do neeed the competition

[@getmesomeice]

@Slipstream666-o9t ?????? u ain't making sense lmao are u an npc

[@entrydenied]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if it ends up selling past a million. It looks really good and I'm looking forward to it but I don't think it's going to do super huge numbers. Hopefully it makes enough to become franchise and grow over time.

[@threeswordssama]

I don't have much experience with the newer Final Fantasy games but I'm a fan of the old school turn based style. There's a ton of variety within the "turn based" battle mechanic that can be applied in a variety of ways.

[@insomniaddictesp]

I agree, I felt like I was very good at Final Fantasy games and now I am not because of the shift to soulslike combat.

[@PlaguedxAmbition]

@@insomniaddictesp The vast majority of gamers would rather have action combat, so companies and developers are going to choose the option that gets more sales.

[@insomniaddictesp]

@@PlaguedxAmbition i am completely fine and happy to play an action game. I do not need another soulslike style combat game tho, and it does not really fit with final fantasy in my opinion

[@lpstweetytv5242]

​@PlaguedxAmbition Various play systems are still important tho, I like action games but I don't want all my games to be reflex based 😅

[@michaelkarlsson5966]

@@insomniaddictesp me too

[@wounduppenguin]

I think FF should go back to turn-based. I think FF can have 2 lines, action-based and turn-based, just like how Yakuza/Like A Dragon does their games now.

[@omegaman182]

Everyone saying to have a turn based franchise and action franchise... they do and your all still complaining 🙄 dragon quest is their big turn based franchise and they have move FF in to their actio n based franchise. It doesn't make sense for a company to make two massive turn based franchises.

[@wounduppenguin]

@@omegaman182 That's exactly how it was at SQEX until FF15. Now they have two big action based FF, FF7 series, and mainline FF. Two huge AAA action RPGs that both underperformed commercially. I'm not sure how that makes more sense than what I suggested. And where in my message above am I complaining? Don't project other people onto me.

[@omegaman182]

@@wounduppenguin your right that the complaints are from other comments so I apologise 😅. I do believe they are moving FF as a whole towards action based, and the remake trilogy will be drawing to a close in a few years so I wouldn't count it as its own continuous franchise. As for underperforming, FF16 sold 3.5mil and FFrebirth sold around 3mil. These are good numbers and both reviewed well rebirth being the highest rated game this year as of last month anyway, for example dragons dogma sold 2.5mil and was considered a success. Obviously we don't know final units or budgets but square-enix wanted Final fantasy sales to cover the losses of forspoken, avengers and bybalons fall. Action games have generally sold better with exceptions like bauldrs gate,so I defend square enix's decision. Do you believe a platform exclusive turn based would have sold better? I think its the platform holding it back not the games personally which we'll find out soon i guess. Dragon quest is not the only franchise they have under them that well staying turn based either, they have ocotopath, star ocean, bravely default, valkyrie profile, SaGa and they could bring back chrono or lufia. They have plenty of good turn based rpgs under their banner. I personally enjoy games mostly for the narrative so I generally prefer turn based rpgs but enjoyed both the recent final fantasy's.

[@wounduppenguin]

@omegaman182 lol no worries. Square Enix said in their last financial report that whilst FF16 met the initial expectations, it underperformed their long-term expectations. They also said FF7 Rebirth did not meet their initial expectations. Not sure where you are getting 3 mill for Rebirth from as SQEX had given no sales figure for it.

[@absfinal]

Meathaphor phantosizio will be selling like hot cakes cuz it has action combat for weak enemies and turn based for stronger

[@nyanmaruunlocked399]

The thing is that, because so many companies have dropped turn based combat, none has improved it or implemented it in the new big triple A games. Which means there is still of unexplored ideas and potential in that type of gameplay. I think that if Expedition 33 comes out great and sells a lot, it could open the eyes of many companies and make them see that there is fans that are waiting for those ideas to be implemented in videogames. Action combat games are good, but is becoming the "standard" and if every game has action combat then it becomes boring. Same is happening with games aiming for open worlds now, ppl get happy now every time a game is not open world, because they are getting tired of it.

[@akumous]

This is a testament that turn based can be done and modernized to appeal today’s market.

[@icyboy771z]

Baldurs Gate 3 basically is turn based

[@JeannieLove]

Tales are still RPGs. It's a style, not specifically turn based

[@RPGLameO]

JRPGs can be action and turn based. Wether it’s western or JRPG is based on a lot of other factors such as storytelling style, world building approach and player agency. In Westerns, you usually have a whole lore built where you can tell different stories, such as the Elder Scrolls series where all games take place in Tamriel with has an extensive and established lore but none of the games are really conected to one another. While JRPG, you usually have a world that only exists for that one story and not all details of the world are crafted since they are not important to the story. In JRPGs the story moves with characters , in WRPGs, the story moves with the world.

[@obba40]

Never was turn based in the firstplace

[@Official_RetroMania]

I hope Square goes back to their turn based games and that we get a full party again and that FF becomes a RPG again!

[@KH-nk8ry]

….So like Octopath?

[@BigtankBoy77]

Play dragon quest

[@khangle6872]

​@@colorlessserpent5009 They dont sell well because they are console exclusive tho

[@colorlessserpent5009]

@@khangle6872 dosentmatter look up sales

[@NuiYabuko]

Action RPGs are a thing.

[@zaythleon5847]

I think it depends on who they get to head ff17. I personally would love to see it go back to a more turn based rpg but I think the bigger problem is that the franchise itself has an identity problem. Other rpgs grew because they knew what they wanted to be and where they wanted to go within their area but ff lost it's core vision and now has to either rediscover it or create a new one

[@MarcosBay_]

Final Fantasy shouldn't have abandoned turn based combat.

[@kythrathesuntamer9715]

agree

[@ApexCalibre]

They should have and I’m glad they did

[@DiogoJ1]

Agreed. FF XII was still technically turn based due to the action queve system. It was the last true good FF, not including FF XIV, which is great as well, but because it's an MMO, it must follow different rules.

[@Feuer-ks3rr]

They should have, and I'm so glad they modernised the gameplay. You can go back and play your old final fantasy games which were turn based instead of making the new games turn based

[@paulstolp6350]

Agree

[@AndersonTenecela]

“the Final Fantasy I remember was constantly seeking new challenges and never sitting comfortably in any given place." Sakaguchi in 2016 I’m using this quote because I think it reflects why Final Fantasy isn’t turn based and while OJ does brings good points about the best selling games on PS4 at the time, fans have to remember that in FF12, it wasn’t the classic turn based combat and that quote from the main creator shows that they want to challenge themselves with every new entry. Some may or may not like the newer actions, but the main goal is to try something different which I can respect that.

[@bioboost12]

Just because he said that doesn't mean it has to go to a completely new playstyle

[@bioboost12]

You can continue to innovate within the turn-based style of gameplay...as smt has and others.

[@bioboost12]

You also have to remember that turn-based is their forte that is what square is most remembered by and to me Final Fantasy 16 was almost like a Devil May Cry clone

[@kjh4496]

Except that the new stuff isn’t good. I needs to be good.

[@maharaja101]

What the series desperately needs imo is a clear gameplay identity. They've just been all over the place ever since the PS2 era and these 7-10 year gaps between releases does the series no favors. Instead of reinventing the wheel with every game they should just pick a style and iterate on it. (Preferably the FF7R combat lol)

[@GoldChocobo77]

Yes they should just stick to 1 thing and improve upon it oever games. Instead of completely changing everything every time. It's so annoying and I didn't like an FF game since FF10 (and FF7R)

[@Rhomagus]

They did just that. FF: Turn based Ii: Turn based, actions directly affect character progression III: Turn based Job System IV: ATB Fixed Role characters V: ATB Job System VI: ATB Esper system combined with fixed role w Street Fighter style input. VII: ATB Materia system VIII: ATB Esper (GF) system combined with Junction system. Introduction of timed button crit modifier and Street Fighter style input. IX: ATB Fixed Role X: Turn Based with SF input and Sphere Grid with hot swappable out of party substitution mechanic X-2: ATB with a combo mechanic mixed with the Job System XI: Auto attack with TP accrual in lieu of ATB with skill chain and magic burst combo mechanics. Randomized skill proc progression combined with Job Level. XII: Auto attack with Gambit System and Sphere Grid (License Board) XIII: Auto ATB with on the fly semi fixed role job change system with stagger mechanic. XIV: Started off as hotbar combat. Auto attack was introduced later. Battle Regimen combos with malleable Job system consisting of overall physical level as well as Job level. Turned into combo centric with auto attack as an afterthought. Introduction of the Cross Hotbar system. XV: Single character with NPC party you could combo off of with stagger mechanic with hot swappable party member control introduced later. License Board progression system. VIIR: Action based "ATB" primarily through TP style accrual with Materia progression mechanic, stagger mechanic, and hot swappable party members. XVI: Single member Action combat with Esper progression system. The Eikon abilities are used in lieu of a party. Turn based turned into ATB turned into TP accrual turned into Action Based but every step of the way was an iteration on what came before mixed with combining systems in new ways. Some combinations just synergized better than others.

[@zambrogue136]

PS2 was perhaps the 2nd best FF era. X, XI, and XII were all master pieces.

[@NoctLightCloud]

I'd love to see the ff7 Rebirth combat system for ff17, with maybe a few ff12-esque gambits.

[@habibk.2423]

Naw man, the FFVIIR combat system is higly acclaimed by soo many FF fans - old and new. Out of all the things the FFVIIRe games did right, the combat is the most acclaimed

[@sosbrigaders]

I have to agree. The combat of both FF7Rs are phenomenal. The story changes aside. I loved it. But i think Expedition 33 is showcasing that it can be done. There is a way to implement turn-based combat in a modern way.

[@NuiYabuko]

​@@sosbrigaders Of course there is a way, plenty of turn-based RPGs are out there, but Ex33 isn't even out yet, so why is it taken as an example, when no one even knows if it'll actually deliver?

[@sosbrigaders]

@@NuiYabuko because it’s a non anime hyper realistic graphic game. My favorite modern turn based games like persona, dragon quest, and octopath are all not AAA graphic games. I’m not saying this game will be good (I hope it is). But it’s catching a lot of people’s attention.

[@badboy-gn8fu]

FF17 is just an action game. that's how dumb downed it became

[@NuiYabuko]

​@@sosbrigaders Isn't it getting attention mostly from people who're into turn-based combat anyway? I've seen nothing to hint that the graphics will convince people. People not into turn-based combat usually state it's outdated not that the graphics are "anime."

[@Nextendoh]

Let’s hope so. FF doesn’t feel like FF without party/turn based gameplay.

[@Official_RetroMania]

Exactly! Without a party and with less RPG elements than in older games can we even call FF 16 an RPG anymore? I think FF suffers an identity crysis.

[@KH-nk8ry]

FF doesn’t news to be turn based to be FF. Agree with the rest.

[@iortizjunior]

@@Official_RetroMania I mean it is an RPG besides the party system. Both FF7 RB and FF16 have similar RPG systems (skill tree, weapon and accessories slots) only difference is one has materia that gives different abilities and one has eikon slots that give different abilities. Its basically the same thing. FF7 Rb is more JRPG and FF16 is more western RPG. They still both RPG's at the end of the day.

[@simo4108]

The problem is not the combat system being action or turn based, games like the Tales of series are action RPGs but they still make you build your party in strategic ways. It's what goes togheter with the combat that is lacking in FFXVI, they have removed dungeons for starters, instead we got linear stages in which all you do is fight, zero interactivity, no puzzles, no exploration, nothing. Everything is streamlined for Clive's growth, gear, abilities, crafting, everything is guided and pre determined. Fighting a bomb using a fire aspected eikon and causing damage is fairly ridiculous, there's absolutely zero rpg element in the game. One thing is to evolve a series and completely change its genre is another...

[@danhalo1405]

I completely agree mainline Final Fantasy games should go back to turn based combat, those mainline games really should go back to what made Final Fantasy so great in its golden era days on SNES and Ps1 and Square can always make a second spinoff Final Fantasy series that has the action combat

[@alexpadilla9993]

Why not both? Ff7 re Is a great example.

[@nyanmaruunlocked399]

Example of what? FF7R is just copying KH gameplay, is not turn based, is action based. You just happen to have a bar on the side where you choose skills, but the monsters wouldnt wait for you to attack, which means it isnt turn based.

[@NuiYabuko]

​@@nyanmaruunlocked399 OP means a hybrid system, which FFVIIR is.

[@josesingh3857]

They should give players the option to switch on an off turn base combat cause Ik some fan want it back but others like that FF games are no longer turn base I’m definitely one who doesn’t want it to go back to turn base

[@tunperak1256]

Can't wait to play Expedition 33. A turn based rpg with realistic graphic instead of anime/cartoony style. It looks unique.

[@fuzzytaco206]

I hope that this will be the new trend for JRPGs, to do this new things were the action is menu based and things pause while you choose to make choices.

[@darkshao51]

Well, let's not hype it too much either. Don't expect a massive triple A here, it's still a small team of developers. It'll be AA at best. The game is clearly appealing, but I'm a bit worried that people will mistake it for the equivalent of a FF game in terms of ambition.

[@gamekiller64]

I’m not too concerned with FF having turn based since Square offers so many good turn based games already. Especially since 16 and Rebrith were amazing. Now if they do make a turn based FF I sure hope all these fan begging for it actually speak with their wallet

[@sinchman1]

Expedition 33 is going to create a new era in turn base RPG

[@NuiYabuko]

What new era?

[@exion2011]

turn based RPG with QTE Ring?? Legend of Dragoon and Shadow hearts franchise already do that

[@mikeehrmantraut1899]

What funny is that the Tales of Series got so much right with Action Combat while FF change it to Action combat managed to screw it up

[@patrickleblanc613]

They didnt screw it up. Quite the contrary. The problem with it is ff had been turn based for so long that if felt integral to the series for some die hard fans and the gradual change to more action focused combat seems like an afront to them. Juxtapose this with the tales series that has been action based since the beginning and has only had it evolve over time and you see were im a going here. It would be the same scenario if tales next game were to try turn based combat. There would be some issues from fans who consider action combat integral to the tales series and consider it blasphemy.

[@linkvagar2336]

Screw it up? FF7 Remake has the best action rpg combat system of any action rpg ever. Period.

[@azuredream9032]

​@@linkvagar2336 I'd agree if not for kh imo as far as games made by square goes. Kh combat is leagues more fun than any ff game to me but the 7r franchise is a close 2nd to it.

[@shanebluesky7452]

No they didn't screw up.

[@derrellarthur4604]

Final Fantasy 7 rebirth combat system is perfect. The fact the action slows down. While giving you the chance to cast a variety of spells. This is the direction the franchise should be headed. From here on out. It could be the standard for future games to come. Plus I can’t forget the chain attacks.

[@Angelofgod112]

As someone who has played a little bit of the original ff7, ff10, & ff12, back in the day, i always thought these games would have been better the way they are now with full on action combat, it works alot better

[@Perthorn]

We missed you turn-based combat. Welcome back. No seriously OMG, the Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 looks so incredibly goood. Wishlisted immediately.

[@ectogamut]

Last summer when BG3 came out there was a not insignificant amount of people complaining that a D&D game was turn-based…. like…. ??? You can’t make this stuff up!

[@jqwright28]

That's the problem with game development lengths being more than 3 or 4 years, costing $300 million or whatever, when it takes you 7 years to make a game there's a good chance people will have moved on from the trend when you started development. Look at this new Dragon Age game. I'm sure they decided to make it more like Mass Effect before Baldur's Gate 3 gained any popularity in early access. Bioware is stuck with a game the western rpg community doesn't want now. Square has similar problems.

[@tevlar]

FF series started going action combat when they merged with Enix and they got Nomura who started working on Kingdom Hearts. He then fooled the SE CEOs that Western audiance made fun of their turn based/ATB system to get his own action combat from Kingdom Hearts into the FF series starting with FF10X2 and FF12 Gambit system.

[@thecrowbarofirony3703]

“Turn based is dead!” Honkai Star Rail and BG3 begs to differ

[@patron7906]

I'd go back to FF, if this were the case. Not into action/realtime stuff.

[@NoctLightCloud]

I disliked the combat in 15 and 16, but the one in Remake/Rebirth was very good

[@Data-Top10]

Turn based allows a real party based RPG to play well. I hate how the trend keeps pushing full on action RPG with AI controlled party members, (or no party members). Having full control over all the party is always much more engaging. From what it looks like, this new game Expedition 33 looks like it is managing to keep it turn based, while making it look and feel like a full on action rpg. That is some good innovation.

[@shanebluesky7452]

No it won't turn back now. Major AAA titles will be action rpg while mobile ones would have turn based.

[@AceYamagucci]

They did a fantastic job w 16 and Rebirth imo. So whatever combat they go with, I'm confident it'll be solid.

[@LoveWillB4U]

looks like an updated Lost Odyssey. The main issue I have with ARPG is that it's all first person or near first person paired with poor camera control that most SQ ARPG has. I hate running around the map with poor camera/unit control. Old school ARPG with a 3rd person view worked well without having camera's moving everywhere. Some people might say they want that immersion but it's more of an annoyance. We come for the story of the world, not to pretend we are the main characters.

[@madnessarcade7447]

2:53 turnbase still gets a bad rap even now I see people say that Pokemon should abandon turn based because it’s “outdated”

[@xavier8951]

Well, games like Pokemon sell very well, so their argument is irrelevant.

[@shatteredsentient5321]

I mean, they can't with the main games because it would screw up their pvp audience and the world championship/tournaments they hold.

[@KatanaRikku]

I really would rather they build on FF7 Rebirth’s combat or 16 for the next mainline title. If anything, I’d prefer they create a spinoff series of turn-based titles. I genuinely think 7 remakes has the best combat of any final fantasy game I’ve played.

[@bluntzy0414]

I love the legend of Dragoon 💪

[@cineologist_]

Playing it now.

[@Mo0kie]

I miss the Legend of Dragoon.

[@jamess.3013]

I’d honestly be thrilled to see the job and combat systems of X-2 come back

[@kingjaffa618]

Yakuza was able to go to turn based and make an entirely new series with action combat so fans had everything. Some of the action FF games have been great but think there needs to be at least 1 modern turn based FF game

[@wiseguy240Winston]

They need to go back to ATB turn based combat. Build off what they did in 13-3's battle system, which was the series last non action before FF15. It was one of the best and underrated while offering something i see as a middle ground for turn based and action combat fans that worked.

[@entrydenied]

Lightning Returns has the most complex system in the trilogy and is kind of what FF16 wishes to be in terms of the amount of variety and builds one can have.

[@KH-nk8ry]

No. Improve the Action Combat, bring it up to par with modern Action Combat games, and make it more rewarding. I don’t want a UI clicker.

[@Mojaveknight17]

Exactly

[@1988M.]

Then don’t play it.

[@dash_frame]

Couldn’t disagree more, if you watch the video I think OJ makes a very compelling case of why Square should take FF17 in a more turn based direction. The writing is on the wall that they could do it in a way that works out well for them.

[@Mojaveknight17]

@@dash_frame turn base is old and outdated

[@dash_frame]

@@Mojaveknight17 “old and outdated”, yet there are dozens upon dozens on turn based games that come out every year lmao. “Old and outdated” is probably the laziest counter argument against turn based.

[@lubbo5261]

I hope for FF17 to have the combat of 7 Remake and 7 Rebirth, because its the perfect mix of the classic ATB system and the modern action combat.

[@firekungfuhero1150]

How come people dont see that Turn Based RPGs look so asthetically unrealistic from a combat perspective, here's what's wrong: - characters stand in a row, which looks unnatural - one ally or enemy attack at a time, while everyone else stands there looks like an idiot while taking a hit - your allies don't react to enemies trying to attack you - controls and pace is too simple and slow

[@Jameshorn87]

Turn based has a lot of untapped potential. Being able to think out your actions tactically is the only advantage it has over action games that give you 2 seconds to input your decisions. Problem is most turn based games are too easy and don’t challenge players to think critically. Doesn’t help that most titles spam random encounters on you to the point players get irritated. Make less total encounters but make each one more meaningful, memorable, and at least 3x more strategically challenging than what we currently have. Make it more interesting than the same combat loop with bigger numbers on the screen. Innovative the genre, don’t abandon it.

[@samflood5631]

I wonder if Final Fantasy 17's turn based combat will be similar to Final Fantasy X's turn based combat, or have something similar to that of Baldur's Gate 3.

[@bioboost12]

I love FF but i feel there is just too much going on now...especially with the size of these towns. I get they wanna utilize new available options but I feel less npcs you spoke too left more impact as you remembered them more from dialogue and their locations etc.

[@Puntonghua]

Something like FF12 would be perfect. FF7 is also acceptable.

[@davidhill8565]

It’s not negative reviews that’s leading to this, it’s the circumstances surrounding the release of these two games.

[@JMrealgamer]

You can have buttery smooth TB combat that’s fast enough that you don’t have to speed up the game. Infinite Wealth proves that. The speed up option is much appreciated though. Dragon Quest XI S is another great one!

[@fineva8291]

I think maybe the FF9 Remake if it is a 1:1 remake like rumored, it will be a market test for the series in terms of what direction it should go in game mechanics and platform. I would be pretty happy if it ends up selling more than FF16 or FF7R games.

[@nuclearbeeberman]

It's just my very personal view but thats what Square Enix would need to change to make me excited for Final Fantasy again (and man I called it by far my favorite franchies a long time ago) 1. Do original scenarios (not this game of throne at home rip-off) 2. Make good balanced battle systems with strategy included (doesn't matter if turn based or real time but it needs depth and strategy to it) 3. Write proper characters and stories, this is an issue since Final Fantasy 13. If they do this, I'm back on board

[@tommymacklin6641]

I hope not. I became a big fan of Final Fantasy after it ditched the turn based gameplay. I’d like future games to lean into the type of combat found in the Final Fantasy VII Remake series, where it’s action based, but there are turn based elements and you have playable party members. Even Final Fantasy XV, which just had Noctis being playable, at least initially, still had that party that was with you for almost the whole game.

[@benquirobiequiratman4646]

what they should d 9:45 Make A option Menu for turn based for the player to pick How he wants play the game

[@aoshi000]

Expedition 33 looks intriguing, was even more excited when i saw it was turn based from Xbox showcase. FF16 was not bad (actually i liked 15 better) but i greatly prefer 13-2 or ff7 remake and rebirth since it's more turn based focused, it's more fun for me personally. I think FF lost a lot of its appeal after losing sakaguchi and uematsu. Most mistwalker RPGs like blue dragon, lost Odyssey, archaic sealed heat, the last story, or Fantasian felt more like old school FFs to me. 17 should follow the balanced battle system of rebirth as it has fast action but also need strategic turn based

[@fishingmule3266]

I think someone from Square Enix said that it looks weird and counter-intuitive to a young gamer to see characters standing there to select commands. In my experience, it’s the opposite. Turn-based combat can be more intuitive if it’s not over complicated. As a case in point, Pokémon has been easy to get into for younger kids and beginner gamers since the 90s. It’s the only game I could get my wife hooked on, actually.

[@GoldChocobo77]

I agree with you and wonder who are they even asking before they make those kind of opinions? There will always be an audience split and it's not based on age. Some prefer hack and slash action, others turn based. Always been and will continue. But I would appreciate if Square Enix could stop changing their mind at every game what they want their combat to be...

[@barcster2003]

I dont know but im defintely into clair obscure expedition 33.

[@marksutter182]

I loved Final Fantasy XVI's story but I didn't like the gameplay. As much as Final Fantasy XV was an action game, the party still mattered and you had some control over the other three characters. XVI got to the end of the story and the camera lingered on all the party members that traveled with me and I realized it rung hollow because I never actually had any control over their actions. They were just there for exposition and dialogue. As far as a battle system is concerned, I loved the XIII trilogy and the Final Fantasy VII Remake/Rebirth style combat. If we get another Final Fantasy, I hope that's the direction they go. But also, I would love it if video games generally would stop being so obsessed with "realistic" graphics. My number one desired thing is GREAT GAMEPLAY. Most of my favorite games from the last decade have had basic or retro graphics. If the game is fun, I don't care how realistic the textures are.

[@insomniaddictesp]

I don’t know if they should move away from turn based, but I did not enjoy the combat as much in Rebirth this time around. Primarily I found that they added too many elements, many combatants felt more obnoxious than challenging, and it feels like I have to invest tons of materia just to get good feeling ATB. I did not love that in Remake, it feels worse in Rebirth. I platinumed Remake, I do not even want to try hard mode in Rebirth. Seems super unenjoyable. I have played through remake at least 8 times just because I enjoyed it. I have quit replaying Rebirth.

[@mismismism]

I think FF should go turn based. That was it's thing, they did turn based better than anyone else and ever since they got so hellbent on going action, it's been very mixed. And now especially, it's like every game is going action, the same way and it's making these actions focused "RPGs", I struggle to call most of them RPGs anymore at all even, feel so oversaturated. It feels like there are 1000 versions of the same game now since sommany games are going that same route and Square is not the best at action, they were the best at turn based. And games like BG3, Persona/SMT, Pokemon(even though they suck now) should give an indication that turn based isn't the problem, almost no one is making big budget, graphically epic RPGs anymore.

[@kelllyfostier984]

l can see why Final Fantasy went towards the action oriented combat route because they were struggling to find their identity again and were looking for a new direction but at the same time they were completely shutting out the turn based fans who bought Final Fantasy games because of turn base combat who helped made Final Fantasy successful in the first place is totally unfair and shutting out the turn base community which is wrong why not have both and let the player choose which one they would like to play there should be room for both styles of combat to please both fan bases

[@Ssj2Bardock]

what was the game that was shown in the beginning, the one with the jrpg style turn based combat?

[@killiandw]

As a long time square FF fan I'm not mad at what they have done. I may not like it, but I'm not mad. Fans need to remember the essence of FF games. The essence of FF is taking a risk. The first FF took a risk that could have been their final fantasy. That risk paid off. I'm ok with square taking a risk and trying new things. I learned a long time ago not every FF is for me and it's ok. They may come back to what I love or they may never doesn't matter I had a good time either way

[@adamtideman4953]

Good lord, this franchise is still going through its identity crisis...

[@OwtDaftUK]

More Final Fantasy games were ATB than turn-based and Rebirth's battle system has elements of ATB in it and isn't breaking too far away from FF. In my opinion Final Fantasy VII Rebirth is the best RPG battle system ever. When it comes to this other games battle system, I don't really see where the hype is coming from. It just looks like any other turn-based battle system, it just visually looks more flashy. Is that the only evolution turn-based fans want is visuals? One thing is for sure, i'd not want 16 more solo feeling battle system again for a mainline FF game even though I liked it, I just don't think it suits Final Fantasy multi character story telling.

[@tacothunder2298]

I sure hope FF goes back to turn based with traditional jrpg gameplay. I could not care less about modern FF games. They could do spinoffs as action games or any other genres like they did in the past (dirge of cerberus being my favorite non jrpg ff), but keep main entries traditional, please.

[@greggeiger7532]

They call everything “rpg” now. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next pressure washing game is tagged “rpg.”

[@nesterpowers8814]

For real tho FF13 gets all the hate but it might be my favorite battle system. For the same reason why I love xenoblade games so much because the battle systems makes me feel in control of the other characters actions while they act on there own

[@lazydgsf7429]

FF-13, for a patient gamer in 2024, is a great change of pace to modern games. I hated it when it released. Now I really enjoy it. Worth checking out. I have no desire to play 16 at all and I’m an FF fan. The Sony exclusivity was a mistake too. They lost a chunk of a generation.

[@NefariousLoto]

Other Square games ASIDE(Don’t wanna hear you guys say they did this, thank you) I think Square should return to turn base and spice things up and be more experimental, could be stressful yes I mean Expedition 33 proves they can, but thats just me.

[@brandonaguirre9188]

Might get some hate for this but I loved the combat system of 13.

[@baskogitlog7276]

Its like legend of dragoon combat mechanics

[@lazydgsf7429]

Square had cold feet after FF-13 flopped (I enjoy it now) and chased western action trends. That culminates in FF16. A game that didn’t land in a year where a turn based RPG won GotY. Square should go back to doing as they do and not chase trends.

[@SnuSnu91]

Gotta disagree. FF7R and FF16 have phenomenal immersive combat with FF7R combat being my favourite out of any RPG I've ever played. I wouldn't wanna go back to strictly turn based combat. While Clair Obscur certainly looks great, we'll have to see how it turns out. Final Fantasy is so much more than just turn based combat and people need to get over it.

[@connergaskell1909]

I fricking hope ff goes back to it's roots loved playing 16 but wouldn't mind 17 going Turn based

[@Mojaveknight17]

Turn base alone doesn't sell copies

[@connergaskell1909]

@KnightSoulsG go tell that to persona series

[@Mojaveknight17]

@@connergaskell1909 1 example not enough

[@UNBIASEDGLOBALNEWS]

Dragon Quest 11 then. How about all the top selling turn base Rpgs that didn't go total graphic 304s and made it all about looks, barely any story worth following... sorry ff16 is terrible... ff15 was borderline action rpg in a bad way. I think Ff7 remake is the best way to do action and hybrid turn base system.

[@tommymacklin6641]

@@UNBIASEDGLOBALNEWS I’d have the future of Final Fantasy combat lean towards that found in the 7 remake series, not 16.

[@DogHairDontCare]

I actually enjoyed both ff7r and ff16 combat system. Just didn't like 1) how we obtained materia, namely summons, in ff7r, and 2) the lack of equipment depth in ff16. Still had fun with both games... They just need to stop blowing the budget on dumb things that alienate its own fans. For instance, Ff7rebirth will burn you out for doing all the side content. Ff16 will punish your interpretation of the story for skipping side content. How do they screw that up back to back?

[@alexi111]

I didn't LOVE FFXVI and sure its not the best but it's not a bad game at all. 7.5/10 for me. I gave it an extra .5 due to the cinematics. Now if they went turned based, automatic 9 for me. Turn based is and always will be my favorite style of game. If the FFIX remaster is real (and acknowledging this is my favorite game in the series), I am certain that FFIX will be a 10/10 for me personally and that's mainly due to the turned based fighting.

[@richardjames6934]

Maybe they should dip their toe back into turn based with a huge budget FFX-3 and see just how well it does...

[@tobiasmohr3991]

No shade to anyone who likes turn based combat ... but for me personally, I just don't find turn based combat to be thrilling or engaging ... it takes me out of the world and break the immersion for me ... again, just a personal opinion, but I prefer the combat of FF16 and FF7R way more ... and while FF16 has my favorite combat in general, I feel like the FF7R combat is a good compromise ...

[@marcosdheleno]

as someone who HATES QTE based rpgs, this game looks like a nightmare. i genuinely dont understand how peopel are more ok with gimmickfied turn based, than just good, well done action rpgs. the worst part is, almost every single time, a turn based rpg that uses QTE as their main gimmick will balance the game, not on builds or strategy, but on how many well timed presses you get. which makes them far worse than a traditional jrpg. also, forced to go back? dude is dragon quest not turn based? isnt octopath, and the bravely default not turn back? why do people demand every single game to be turn based? square wants to play around action rpg with final fantasy, and they are doing well enough. we are more than well fed when it comes to turn based. but nop, all that matters is that final fantasy is no longer turn based. i guess that's the same mentality that says indies are new and unique, when 99% of all indies are either rogue lites, crafting/survival/open world or nes era plataformers, with the eventual bad pokemon clone.

[@mex6623]

If they make it turn based then I'll try it again :). Otherwise it's not true to the soul of Final Fantasy.

[@HipnotikHylian]

No.... It's still NOT a JRPG. It's a western RPG with turn-based combat. Unless it is specifically stated that it's inspired by JRPGs and has mechanics from those games in ADDITION to the turn-based combat you logically cannot call this a JRPG. Plus the themes have to match what JRPGs have done. This is quite clearly aimed at the western audience.

[@darkshao51]

Look at their website, it's specifically stated that it's inspired by JRPGs 😅

[@shatteredsentient5321]

Yea, this one of the few games that has me intrigued this month. I really REALLY love this.

[@kenrulei09]

Excited for this game so much

[@lebon4717]

Clickbait at it’s best 💀

[@psmchannel5974]

I will buy this game even though I don’t have time to play it. Just to send a loud and strong message to SE that turn based battle system is well and alive

[@BlueLightningSky]

I wouldn't mind a turn based game if it did it right like BG3. No battle arenas, full use of the environment, high levels of creativity and imagination. But if they're going to go back to let's say FFX style? I have HSR on mobile. Am I supposed to be impressed with using the thing the enemy is weak to and believe it's some deep strategic thinking? If FF17 is turn based the non negotiable breaking point for me should be it has movement. Less games like FFX, more games like XCom (or if you're a weeb VC4), don't give up on Diofield and Triangle Strategy's formula. I know P5 was popular but I can confidently say it's because of the characters. I've never heard anyone say "I hate all the characters in P5 but the combat got me through it"

[@illahall4054]

They will never make another mainline FF game turned base, that time is over especially after the success off ff16 and ff7 rebirth battle system. They might go back to turn based for a none ff game or a none mainline ff but never for a mainline like the next FF17

[@abemontes2518]

Turn based is definitely best. Action is good as long as it's fast paced fighting. Zelda is probably the best action RPG out there or at least the most popular one.

[@zachw2538]

im all for action / rpg spin offs. dragon quest heroes 2 was awesome. but i hope they do go back to turn based for the ff series.. I've spent waaaay more time playing the pixel remasters than the newer games.

[@guruthosamarthruin4459]

I don't even think Final Fantasy IS their main IP anymore. I assume that at this point, Dragon Quest earns more money. It might also be Kingdom Hearts, at this point. FF might be 3rd. It's just not very popular anymore. They've driven it into the ground.

[@Eitachi5656]

The natural evolution of turn based combat is what you see in Final Fantasy 11 or better yet in FF12. Everything before is obsolete and the BS button mash dumbed down action combat seen after 15 (FF16, FF7 remakes) is just terrible. I think the active dimension battle combat in 12 (where attack speed is a stat) with a few things added in like dodging, and enemy telegraphs, would make for a more accurate successor to the Final Fantasy series.

[@Milkyskywiiu]

All Square Enix has to do is; bring back the Gambit system from 12 and its all good... but nope screw what fans want

[@a.j.l.l8453]

Square Enix: We released three amazing games which have been a commercial success, which is good for the company (VII: Remake, VII: Rebirth, XVI) specially after the Forspoken fiasco FF Fans: : We are not happy, go back.

[@caxcryp6231]

Ff7Rebirth has the best combat system so far. Hope we'll see something similar with ff17

[@Rhomagus]

We have yet to see if the combat is any good. Just because it's turn based or not does not make it good. If it can't beat FFX-2's combat, which I believe is the peak of turn based ATB combat, then the answer is no. Timing, non player characters still moving around, ability combos and synergies. If it's just glorified slap fighting I could care less.