Final Fantasy VIII's Divisive Junction System ~ Design Doc

[@DesignDoc]

Vagrant Story came out after FFVIII, but FFT did come out before, so everyone commenting about 'Before Ivalice' are correct. That line was used just as an allusion to FFXII rather than ignoring the history of that setting. 'Before Ivalice' is, in the context of this script, a synonym for FFXII.

[@mattwo7]

Opera Omnia implies it's not even the same Ivalice between FFT and FFXII, though Mog has been built up as a less than reliable source of information so who knows really?

[@rubberband22]

I mean, it's an extremely important detail and is vital to the whole point of the video. Edit: Not directed at mattwo

[@mattwo7]

Least you bothered to read the rest of the comment thread at some point, which is more than what I can say for most people...

[@kaitoudark1]

mattwo7 OO also isn't made by Square, but rather other third parties. Square just published the game as an out sourced cash grab. The team also didn't ask Matsuno anything about canon. It's also the arse end of a cameo fan service series. One can safely disregard it as non canon.

[@mattwo7]

Isn't it a bit too soon to claim it's the "ass end" of the series?

[@noiJadisCailleach]

You made me remember the first time i faced a T-rex: It chomped my squalls' ass off, spat it back out, then Squall did a "damaged" kind of animation. And then on top of his head it popped out: *MISS* Almost fell to the floor LMFAO.

[@senditall152]

Thanks for reminding me about that lol

[@pyrefly7575]

I found it easy ... I slept him forever while the 3 members casted G.F. summon and rinse and repeat

[@AlexDrewsumin]

Buried this memory deep

[@sfpatello1670]

On my first playthrough, FFVIII was not "the game with the junction system" but "the game where you can summon the hell out of battles FOR FREE" :D

[@Jacois]

LOL, for sure! After my first play through, I almost never summon GF's. :/

[@arisrayden]

jep man there was nothing quite like ff8 summons back in the day. i pride myself on having been able to get to 255 boost with almost every single summon but after you start understanding the system and get over how cool the animations are you'll just start to see them as a waste of time xD

[@tripwirecreator25]

Same here, GF Spam on boss fights, then after my first playthrough, I used Shiva and Quezacotl early game for Ifrit boss fight and the X-ATM092 chase respectively. Then not summoning Shiva altogether on recent runs.

[@tripwirecreator25]

Spam Summons, then didn't know there was specific bosses that has summons you can draw. I restarted the game when I missed out on Siren and Carbuncle.

[@xrubyxlightx]

Unlimited Shiva

[@littlerobotfairy9710]

The only thing I didn't like about Junctioning is that it discouraged you from using any of your magic spells.

[@virionspiral]

If they would have had two pools of magic. 1 to junction to, and the other to use. And to balance it a little, have the junction pool slowly degrade.

[@azure5584]

Hard to disagree with this statement being true. But hey, if you're a weapons-first freak and a magic-freak second, as in much more prefer to slash enemies' faces with Gunblades and all that, then this is the perfect game for you.

[@bennhall2777]

Little Robot Fairy, Formerly named Princess Core if you do it right you don’t need to 🤓

[@mrskye08]

Actually yes. I never used my magics in my games. I just use items and attack.

[@TheHaatchoum]

Yeah it does, although this whole battle design doesn't really wants you to in the end. All you'll want to do is launch your Limit Breaks since they are way more powerful than any other battle style in this game. Except for the very first battles where G-Forces are helpful, you can quickly get access to Aura and then there will only be a few magic spells you'll avoid linking (aura, triple, meltdown mostly since they'll be the one you'll use) and the rest isn't made for battle. You can also note that these useful spells are also available as items... But indeed, it would have been nice to have a way to "master" the spells once and for all, it the battle design was a bit more balanced.

[@OniricChef]

IMHO, the biggest flaw I had with the system, was grinding draws. Oh, new enemy? Let me spend the next 10 minutes to grab 100 out of each spell

[@shadowmomochiuchiha6839]

I don't draw cause of cards.

[@Gunblademan117]

Gotta remember that you can always refine items to restock. Use as many spells as you like. The stat drops are not high. Or junction party members with magic they don't often use. Or stock out of battle party members with spells so they can stock your battle party.

[@Saiavinn]

What you say is objectively true, but it doesn't _feel_ right. Why would I _ever_ want to be less than my best? Even just for the rest of the battle? I don't _want_ to calculate the value of a spells damage output versus it's value as my 1/100 junction. I just _don't._ It's not _fun._

[@niko3g]

i was gonna say the same. I even think the best way to extract magic is from items, but of course you need yo level up abilities from the GF.

[@TheSinlessAssassin]

Yes thank you. I gave my characters all their own unique set of spells that they can use in battle, some of which are junctioned to their stats. But some of them even have throwaway spells that are in their inventory JUST for junctioning, and they never use those spells in battle because that's not the kind of "mage" I turned them into.

[@273108364]

and they still rant about running out of items due to refining when you can buy anytime, anywhere from the freaking airship

[@CatsOfSpades]

tfw no GF

[@jier9904]

go to nearest cave!

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

Instructions unclear; got dick stuck in Ifrit.

[@chronica6457]

Tfw no Rinoa GF

[@alfonsos1387]

ConkerTheSquirrel100 good one punchy

[@RoyalFusilier]

That's just what those GF critics are saying!

[@axemtitanium]

If I were magically the director of an FFVIII remake/remaster, I would: 1) allow Magic to stack higher than 100, but still only allow up to 100 to be junctioned at a time. This allows the player more flexibility in actually using Magic instead of hoarding it. 2) increase the maximum number of Magic you can draw at one time, based on your level relative to the area. As you exceed the "recommended level" of an area, enemies (or draw points) will drop more and more Magic per draw, up to a full stack of 100 if you're say 10 levels above an area. This dramatically decreases the amount of pointless grinding, but preserves the "challenge" for people who want to do a lv 1 run.

[@sergioccs74]

Your first option is brilliant! The second one IDK, I mean it all depends on the goals you want to achieve with the drawing system, if you do it to fast you also allow players to break the game at disc 2 for example. Either way, you can easily break the game as soon as you get siren. If you know what you are doing, cards and items will give you all the magic you need without the need to even draw. My last playthrough was the only one where I was using magic left and right, because I nailed the system so well that I could use 20 ultimas and still have 50 more to make once I could enter the menu.

[@hockeycrafter6086]

Or better yet, just ditch level ups entirely and have your games pacing be worth a damn. If you want the junctions to be your main source of power, and level ups are technically your enemies source of power, than why would you even WANT to level up, you are actively discouraged from actually interacting with the game which is so hilarious it’s kinda sad.

[@pn2294]

@@hockeycrafter6086 That’s pretty much describes any level up system that only raises HP every time you level up. It makes the game so empty.

[@kissadev.]

I think that maybe limiting 10 magics to be junctioned and 100 the limit to have (with a little boost of those 10 magics, giving more power than 10 magics in the acyual game but still less than 100 in the actual game), this would damage more the griding the game wanted to avoid by making enemies level up with the player.

[@rtiq270]

@@pn2294 FFV has HP-only levels and it still manages to be a fairly challenging game.

[@wavelength3856]

"Challenge", in the context of the aesthetics of play and the MDA Framework, is *NOT* about difficulty or balance; it is about the joy of overcoming arbitrary obstacles - or, as the authors originally put it, 'Game as Obstacle Course'. JRPGs generally don't shoot for the Challenge aesthetic, and FF8 is no exception. You often see this aesthetic in Platformers, goal-oriented Adventure games, Party games (e.g. Mario Party and WarioWare), etc. Rather, the Junction system was shooting to hit the Discovery aesthetic - specifically mechanical discovery, by introducing a deep, broad mechanic that the player would need to explore throughout the game, discovering new ways to use the tools at their disposal as well as finding new tools (GFs, spells, etc.) to experiment with. Here, I feel the system mostly failed; the concept was brilliant, but the actual discovery felt far too arbitrary - highly based on trial-and-error, obscure, hidden behind badly-explained rules (and a poor UI), and inclusive of too many factors where a smaller number of more meaningful factors would have felt more satisfying. The argument could be made that this system was also trying to access the Expression mechanic - the idea of playing the game and building up a party "your way". Here, too, I feel the system mostly failed, because too often it felt like there was a "right" answer (higher numbers) rather than a meaningful choice between several different builds. Again, adding too many details into the equation may be the reason for the pain points - if a certain GF is quantitatively better on a certain character, or linked to a certain spell, then your ability to express yourself through the mechanic is hamstrung. Incomparables would have been a good add here. FF8's Junction System is a great case study for any aspiring game designers, because it brought a lot of really cool mechanics to the table, but it failed to simplify those mechanics to the point where the interesting decision could cut through the noise of needless complexity, and even worse, it failed to line those mechanics up with the aesthetics of play that it was trying to provide for its audience. I feel this is exactly why the system became so controversial. I know a few gamers that loved playing around with it and trying to optimize their team, but I know far more who (like myself) felt like the Junction system always seemed random, awkward, out-of-reach, or even irrelevant.

[@asdfghjkllkjhgfdsa8725]

yea with some polish and ironing the junction system could have huge potential still. just poorly implemented. also the size of the game makes it so the systems flaws arent immediately apparant, and as long as the player doesnt draw full stacks of magic every time they find a new spell then the problems may not even effect them. as a kid i had no idea it was so broken, recently i played through this and annihilated everything with a few hours of drawing magic.

[@SlimThrull]

You're correct insofar as "beating the game" isn't really a challenge. However, most JRPGs going back 20 years have added challenges if you're willing to seek them out. FF had Warmech, FF6 had many completely optional bosses, FF7 had the weapons. The games don't particularly challenge players just going through the story. But they certainly hold some if you're willing to look.

[@RiftZM]

HP: Ultima Str: Meteor Vit: Meltdown Mag: Holy Spr: Full-life Get Squall's Lion Heart, cast Aura on yourself. Win.

[@Akalistos]

*_"[break your character]. Win."_* The problem with this is that you need, according to the official Guide, an item to get it and your best chance to get it is to kill a mook near Balam Garden to get some item (Drop rate was, from memory 0.01% or 1/100) up to level 10 to which the drop rate turn into utter bullshit (Drop rate 0.0001 or 1/10,000) I got to the end of the game with only the starter weapon for most. Squall had Cutting Trigger and Selphie had MorningStar and Rinoa had the Valkyrie but I never used her.

[@kouron]

Nah, Ultima belongs to element-def :P

[@tasselhoff1293]

Nah..full life goes on HP..meteor goes on str..meltdown goes onto vit..flare goes on mag..and reflect goes on spr. Ultima goes on elemental defence..or str, but you should have 255str with meteor.

[@kevinh723]

Akalistos .01% is not 1/100 I hope you know that. I understand if math was not your strong suit. 0.01% is 1/10000 as it’s expressed as a percentage out of 100.

[@itsthatYEStoogoodguy]

You can't get OP in FFVIII

[@Domar7431]

I really didn't like the Junction system. Gaining ability points for your GFs was great, the basic idea of draining magic from your opponents was cool. But it was precisely the harmful leveling system that stunted the Junction system in my opinion. All enemies level up alongside you, yes, from T-Rexs to Little Flies. I find this idea completely pointless, at best you are simply eliminating the progression of strength a normal rpg has, if you want to keep people from getting stronger using level ups, why not just discard the level up system entirely? But FF8 went one step further, they had all of the monsters in the game gain more stats from leveling up than your human characters do. Enemies that would have killed a character in 3 hits with no junctions equipped the first time you run into them will eventually be able to one-shot the same character with no junctions later in the game. This causes what could have been a choice to boost your stats further or consume spell stock for effects into a clear-cut choice of boost your stats or else. Since you can't stand up to enemies on your own, the optional becomes the mandatory. This also causes a sense of loss when you level up, what would normally be a happy occurrence became a punishment, a demerit. I didn't find this to decrease the grind at all either. Rather, I think it actually placed a greater importance on the grind, spell stock was forced from being a consumable to being the main basis of your strength AND a consumable. Since you need to draw spells from enemies and you usually only get a stock of 3 or so from each turn, you end up spending a long time searching for enemies to rob while standing there taking hits. Overall, I did enjoy playing through FF8, but it was despite the system, not due to it.

[@KickyFut]

The junction system is what made me quit the game! My favorite part of RPG's is magic spells, skills and summons, and this game *discouraged* me from actually using them! It was overly complicated, and FFVIII is my least favorite Final Fantasy game.😔

[@FeelingShred]

it feels so unnatural to be starting a game and in the first 10 minutes already being able to kill a Fire Dragon kind of boss... WTF LOL

[@isaacthelastn7687]

I'm one of the few who loved the freedom of the junction system. Also great video!

[@ABaumstumpf]

its... well, it makes you not want to use magic much, and it was incredible broken once you noticed that leveling up is actually counterproductive.

[@Dhalin]

I wanted to like it, but just too much grind grind grind....oh wait, draw draw draw draw draw draw draw for hours isn't fun. Especially at the beginning of the game when you draw 1-3 of the most basic spells. /yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn. I literally had more fun level grinding in other FFs than I did doing nothing but draw for half an hour plus each battle.

[@bes5164]

well without leveling up you couldnt get all the materials for crafting

[@Dhalin]

They could have done the materials another way, to be honest. I feel that freaking crafting materials are not a good reason to introduce a terrible system that punishes the players for not playing quite right which is disguised as something that's supposed to be good for you (but really isn't) until right near the end of the game.

[@ABaumstumpf]

Maroš Goč you can get the materials without leveling - "LV Up" is your friend.

[@CalvinRRC]

That card game tho. Triple Triad is soooo good

[@myminion74]

somewhere, on a old PS1 memory card, exists my file for FF8 on disc two with about 800 hours on it just from playing triple triad. I fucking cum whenever i hear the first clap in the triple triad theme.

[@VinceOmega]

The best mini game in any game, bar none.

[@yorokopi1]

I ended up playing FF8 more than I ever thought I would because of Triple Triad

[@pepicisam]

triple triad and blitzball pulled me away from the main game so hard. sin can wait while i farm gil to pay my players and win the cup 100s of times over. adel? whos that? is she a good card? if not then i dont care lol

[@huhuplay5981]

true, i don't know why, but i can't enjoy card game from FF9, eventhough it has similar mechanic

[@crislouise2509]

So they have enemies level up with you to try and remove the need to grind but they make spells consumable drops that can increase your status so you grind enemies for there spell drops. That defeats the purpose of having enemies level up with you to discourage grinding then.

[@suiken3149]

Alternatively, you can level down monster level with a specific command skill

[@arempy5836]

I don't think they were aiming to get rid of grinding all together. I think they added level scaling to discourage level grinding so that you had to understand the junction system to get stronger.

[@jokhard8137]

"If you know what you are doing, you can turn a 50 hour game into a 10 hour playthtrough." Yeah, but you neglected to mention that the latter involves 40 hours of Triple Triad. :/

[@Little_b0t]

If you get the trade all rule spread, and mod your diabolo card to get enc.none you can do the triple triad part in like an hour ish. since enemies level up with you all you need is something liek the tornado spell, made from a very common card to do like 5k damage with each basic attack. Most bosses in the game around lvl10 only have like 6k health. It's super easy to break.

[@Cloud971]

Yes but who cares? We love Triple Triad. :)

[@TheOvalOwl]

@@Cloud971 If they made a FF8-2 it would consist of Squall running around defeating monsters and turning them into Cards so we can play in Triple Triad tournaments.

[@danielgaddis4120]

@@TheOvalOwl That sounds a lot like Pokemon. I'm not sure if love or hate this idea.

[@mistervoolish7178]

Uh, 41.5 hours, that stupid quest..

[@sor3999]

For some people figuring out how to exploit a system to achieve God like power is the appeal. Unless it's too easy to figure out.

[@MrDavidCollins]

This is why Disgaea is one of my favorite series.

[@LoneGamerNerd]

FFVIII is my favorite Final Fantasy game! I didn't understand the Junction System in the slightest on my first playthrough. But when I went through the game a second time...I finally figured it out. Yeah, it's a bit OP and can make the game really easy. But, at the same time, that's only if you junction properly. If you junction magic without really thinking about it...you can still get your ass kicked. I hear people whine about Adel _all_ the time and she's not even that hard. I've only lost to her, and Ultimecia, when I was careless with my junctions. If you have good junctions, Triple, and everyone's Ultimate Weapon(s)...the bosses are easy to destroy in the game. The only one whom still puts up a fight is Ultimecia - but even she can be a cinch if you know what you're doing. If anything though, it's my love for Squall and his development, and his relationship with Rinoa, that _really_ retains my interest in the game.

[@garfreeek]

My friend in highschool would play this all the time. But we encountered a bug at the attack on balamb (the fight on the ropes you see here.) So we only played through to disc (2?) and got stopped. But this game was so good that we'd start all over again. Find new GF's, encounter the bug and start over! He eventually got a new copy, but by then I wasn't hanging out with him anymore. I still want to play this game (and FF9) By myself SO BAD!! I loved the look, the setting, the music, the cool looking characters....!

[@LoneGamerNerd]

I think it's available on Amazon for around $20, if I recall. Or you can buy the PC version, which has achievements, cheats, slightly updated graphics/models, and the music is remixed _(though people claim the OST is bad in the PC version)_ .

[@garfreeek]

FireHeart321 Yhea, that's why I'm still a bit hesitant to buy that version. A big part of my enjoyment is the brilliant music! But I'll definitely check out my options, thanks!!

[@LoneGamerNerd]

Sure

[@Horvath_Gabor]

Half my fun with that game was about using the junction system to break whatever difficulty curve it had into splinters. My favorite was this, all doable before the halfway point of Disk 1: -Play triple triad with Zell's mom to get his card. Transform it into three copies of the strongest Str boosting GF ability, +60%. Put them on the three starting GFs that you divide among your three currently active characters for the rest of the game. -Play more triple triad with the guy at the entrance. Manipulate to rules to get the "All" rule to make things go faster. Play until you get enough rare cards to refine them into full stacks of spells like Quake, Tornado, Curaga and Pain. Junction those to STR, Health, VIT and pain to ST Attack. -Play more triple triad. Refine a bunch of Pulse Ammo from a certain card I can't remember right now. Run around in the forest around Balamb to beat up T-Rexaurs and get dragon fangs. Then beat the minoatur brothers to get their card and refine it into Adamantite. Congratulations, you can now make Lionheart on Disk 1. Combine all of these, and you are going to be running around with fairly low level characters (important for the difficultly scaling) with 255 STR, with attacks that have a nigh chance to inflict Poison, Blind and Silence, and with Squall's strongest weapon that also gives access to his strongest Limit Break. Oh, and speaking of limit break, you can also manipulate the Triple Triad rules spread, do a few very easy duels with Ellone to get Laguna's card, refine it and presto! Now you have 100 Aura Stones, an item that anyone can use to cast Aura, allowing your characters to use Limit Break regardless of health remaining and and letting you abuse Squall's limit break even further. [sigh] Those were the times, when I had the time and motivation to come up with these kinds of wacky tricks to break a game's balance. Nowadays I would just use CE. It's more efficient, but it's just not the same...

[@Camkitsune]

Before video starts: I loved the _idea_ of the Junction system. The execution was what fucked it. In particular, it was the fact that you needed to stockpile magic in order to maximize the bonuses. This meant that: 1) You had to spend an eternity spamming Draw to get a stock of spells, and 2) If you junctioned a spell you effectively couldn't _ever use it_ because every cast resulted in a direct hit to your stats. After the video ended: Apparently, I am something of a 'noob' for having these problems. On the other hand, I think the system would have been _far_ more functional if you could only draw once per battle, but instead of being consumed additional 'copies' of a spell also strengthened the spell's effectiveness. This would make the game much less hostile to noobs/hoarders while still allowing for the people that understand the system to break the game. In fact, the draw limit makes item/card refinement a far more attractive option since you _can't_ use Draw to farm.

[@KorboQ]

The PC version kinda makes it a lot more fun by just giving you tons and tons of a lot of the magic things (even if it severely breaks the first few hours of the game because you have access to Curaga and -ra damage spells and Zombie and things like that right at the start)

[@Camkitsune]

@Grilac It's a neat idea, but it would require ditching the Draw mechanic - it's a cool mechanic that's just been _atrociously_ implemented. I'd also just restricting the casts to per-battle would work better (like how 'All' materia worked in FF7). @Korbo That is what is usually called a 'band-aid solution'. It also doesn't make me feel any better about casting spells junctioned to stats because I'm still weakening my character every time I use one.

[@KorboQ]

Yeah, it's not a good solution by any means, it's just interesting to see what the game is like when you don't have to draw spells early on (also you can refresh the basic spells with it any time so you don't have to redraw these ones/save them for stats, just rarer ones later on)

[@doodlebugfour7070]

They should have added in magic shops to spend gil on stocking up quantities of magic.

[@ProxyDoug]

The draw system could have served to draw battle only spells, or maybe spells that couldn't be junctioned but could be converted. Alternatively, the game could have given you spells that only serve to be junctioned and that are more effective in specific characters. However, for that to work, the game should have been much harder than it actually is.

[@ZakEmber]

I loved FFVIII. I might be in the minority, but I thought it was a really well-designed follow-up system to FFVII. Materia in FFVII was god-like and simple: connect enough materia to each other in the right armor, and you could have your characters easily break the game. Moves like Final Attack - Full Life, or W-Summon - Knights of the Round - Mime, etc. just made it unbelievably difficult to permanently kill off your characters in the end-game battles. It was still fun though, and it was awesome to have the power up system, (materia) to be so intrinsic to the world and the characters. FFVIII on the other hand, justified junctioning in their universe very well, and gave a very flexible system in which you could overpower your characters while being way under-leveled from the enemies you fight. By being smart about drawing early on in the game, you could power up way past your level and avoid having to do many, many, MANY monotonous battles throughout the game. There's nothing I hated more in the FF series then grinding battles to level up; using the draw system, a single battle could yield a fantastic result that was much higher than a single battle in other entries. I know some people hated it, but really, this entry stands out as one of my favorites. Explaining how characters use magic without the ability to cast magic, the science and sacrifice behind using GF's, and much more reasonable power level and cap compared to the absolutely outrageous levels in FFVII, (while actually being able to OVER power your characters for their level through careful junctions) just made the whole game very rewarding. If you used brains and planning over brute force leveling, you were rewarded with precise builds and finely tuned heroes.

[@ahmedronaldokahn2352]

Ouh...thank you. I was just started playing it two days ago. The junction system is like a textbook to me. It is very hard to understand, but rewarding once I really understand it. January 17 2020.

[@shinigamimiroku3723]

@@ahmedronaldokahn2352 I'm glad that you're enjoying it. I didn't have much issue understanding it when I first played it back in 99, but I definitely understand why people struggle with it at first. It really is the most rewarding system I've ever come across in a Final Fantasy, and nothing has quite measured up either before or after it.

[@ahmedronaldokahn2352]

@@shinigamimiroku3723 The story is very interesting too. I hope I can understand it all better and faster soon. Besides, I never play any game during childhood. So, it's really an eye-opening experience for me. p/s: I was 3 years old back then when the game was released.😂

[@TheOvalOwl]

When I was in high school way back when FFX was the new hotness, me and my friend loved these games. A kid in our class borrowed FF8 off him. He spent HOURS leveling up right after Squall became a SeeD. He bragged about it at first, then as the days went by he complained. He never got past the 2nd disc and hates the game to this day. He just can't understand why leveling up was a stupid idea and why you don't even need to come remotely close to getting 100 of each magic to beat the game. I played through this game at least 10 times and I don't think I ever had more than 1 or 2 magic per character that had 100 of each. And even when I did, it was mostly late-game magic I drew to prepare to fight Ultimecia.

[@pablolins]

@@TheOvalOwl most end game Magic can be crafted, so after the initial hours of the game, you Just needed 1 person with draw on the party to draw up GFs from certain Bosses and rare spells If you wanted to hoard/min-max

[@KamiSilver]

One thing I couldn't put up with was the fact that something as ethereal, intangible as magic is treated as an item. "You got 3 thunder", "you binded 4 fire". Never worked for me. Broke the magic of magic if that makes sense

[@CondemnedGuy]

There's also the aspect of immersion. An over-sized fly has an unlimited supply of these "items", while a human can only carry 100 of them.

[@KnakuanaRka]

CondemnedGuy Pesky inventory limits.

[@Vorael]

I hated the Junction system because it actively discouraged you from doing anything interesting in battle. Get into as few fights as possible (and even then, use Card to kill enemies to avoid getting xp), don't use any magic, don't do anything. Just junction your strongest spell with good affinity to your attack, mash physical attacks every battle, and one-shot everything. Never actually cast a spell, because doing so makes you weaker. I think the system was a cool idea, and I think if they'd spent more time refining and tweaking it, it could've been one of the mechanically strongest FF titles. There were so many places where it was so close to a good system. It just didn't quite hit the mark, mainly because it encouraged you to make battles as vanilla as possible.

[@NineTails87]

Magic wasn't the only thing you could do in battle. Not to mention there was plenty of items that you could use that had the same functions as spells. It's all about balancing your actions. Who just uses magic an entire battle? There's attack, limit breaks, etc. Not to mention, it's easy to replace and manage the magic you have, especially later in the game with item conversions and cards.

[@charlie1234500]

What they should've done is let you go over the 100 stock cap but not increase your stats once you go over 100.

[@austinculley2871]

If you think that's all you could do then you clearly didnt get very far in

[@jjjbjbbnjbjbjbjbjb9415]

@@One.Zero.One101 Why would you draw spells when you would get tons of refineable items?

[@handzar6402]

@@jjjbjbbnjbjbjbjbjb9415 From playing a card game that forced you to reboot if you lost? Great...

[@ARMRStudios]

I love the **Idea** behind the Junction system... It's just the excecution was horrible... I hate the fact that enemies lvl up with you, a better solution, if they wanted t force players to use the Junction system was to eliminate levels alltogether, just have a better junction system and enemies just have static stats, no one levels up. One of my favorite feelings in a video game is steamrolling over enemies.

[@faburos9012]

Change enemies into Card or cast Break to avoid level ups. Or if you don't have that spell, kill one or two of your party members who is close to levelling up during unescapable fight.

[@FormerRuling]

The problem with enemies leveling with you had less to do with actual stats and more with how unforgiving it was with aspects you had no way (outside of guides) to know you were screwing yourself. You overleveled? Forget the enemies stats - they now don't drop that item you need anymore, or they now randomly have a massive damaging aoe you aren't prepared for. Came in low level to fix those problems? Sorry the enemy has crappy draws if you had just lvled up 5 more lvls they've have had some super epic spell for you to draw...Not that you could know that.

[@codysimpson911]

@Dan Nguyen enemies leveling with you is the same as scaling enemies. They both defeat the purpose of leveling up. You're never weaker or stronger. Your always the same. I never understood why games did this. Destiny is the biggest offender.

[@ParawhoreLoL]

That's what the junction system was for - so you can still steamroll enemies even though they level with you

[@After4th]

Also manipulate enemy levels by equipping commands from Tonberry.

[@Taikaru]

I fell in love with FFVIII and played through it several times!! It's tied with VII as my favorite after playing the whole series. But somehow I don't remember doing much with item or card conversions. Weird... interesting video.

[@pforgottonsoul]

despite it's flaws the junction system is probably one of my favorites in the FF franchise.

[@BK201DarkerThanBlack]

Biggest problem I had with the system is it made the magic a mechanic I never wanted to try in-depth. Did anyone ever use high tier magic like Triple or Ultima? I sure as hell didn't since I knew the value of it staying capped at 100 for my junctions. FF8 was a magic-less Final Fantasy for me. The only magic-less FF I can think of.

[@NineTails87]

The key is to junction with magic that gives the best balance of stats and need of use. If you use triple and Ultima a lot, junction the magic that is next most powerful but is one that you rarely use. Plus there's ways to synthesize magic with items and cards. I played this at 12 and knew this, I don't understand why so many have trouble with it.

[@Skellotronix]

I had triple and Ultima and such on characters I don't want to be powerhouses, but support or tank or mage. Namely, with Quistis and Selphie. Also, islands closest to Heaven and Hell had hidden draw points that never ran dry, they respawned with the best magics.

[@Omgits7ito]

I used magic like a mofo. It just made me go farm more magic when I would use some.

[@itsthatYEStoogoodguy]

Use Ultima stone item instead, Wtf people developers aren't that stupid.

[@theflashgordon193]

@@Skellotronix really I never new that

[@AntonioCunningham]

I personally hated the Junction System because I felt it discourage using magic, but overall I liked Final Fantasy VIII. Also it has the best soundtrack out of all Final Fantasy games in my opinion.

[@acoruna5421]

Antonio Cunningham, if you play Triple Triad and use Card Mod you have unlimited magic ok! But you were just too dumb to know that 😏. Final Fantasy VIII is not for dumb people.

[@UchihaG]

I like pretty much everything about FF VIII but yeah, discouraging the use of magic its by far its worst gameplay aspect (well, that and how easily you can break the game I guess)

[@nesoukkefka1741]

This is actually a good point many felt discourage using magic but the thing is there is actually no reason this is people that fear doing it but during my first playthrough I was using almost nothing but magics, the thing is that for one magic are easily Refine you can easily re get them and there is actually no ennemy outside of maybe the ultimate superboss (and that's not counting if you are Low Level) in the game that has enough HP to make you use enough spells to make the stat loss actually relevant not to mention there is a lot of spell so it's not really hard to put spells on your stats and then use spells that are not Junction.

[@tripwirecreator25]

I get Antonio's point, since you have a risk of stat reduction if you used a junctioned spell and it's a chore to grind for more magic every time, which was a problem for me as well since I sometimes forget to refill lost magic, to a point that the easiest way to play the game is to become focused on physical attacks(especially Limit break centric) with a few help from support spells and items. In the long run, offensive spells for me are useful in the early parts of the game(grinding a bit for Thunders on the spider chase) and/or if you want Rinoa to have an Angel Wing setup. Then as the game goes most of the powerful spells become stat add-ons. For the game soundtrack, yeah thumbs up as well.

[@arisrayden]

cool it with the insults jerk. card mod does not grant you unlimited magic at all or at least not in any feasible time frame. try getting 100 ultima/meteor only trough card mod on disc 1... have fun.... also you can't regain all unique cards on disc 4 if you don't do the cc quest. the main point of card mod is that it's supposed to be easy and fast compared to draw grinding and this flies out the window if you don't want to card mod your unique cards and don't want to grind cards through playing or through carding enemies. oh and don't get me started on abolishing card rules so you can win your unique cards back safely on disc 4, that shit is the most time intensive crap to do properly. but yeah there's hardly any reason to use magic at all apart from oh i dunno aura

[@WebstersYouTube]

I'm firmly on the side of enjoying how customisable and flexible the junction system is.

[@CondemnedGuy]

If you're looking for flexibility, FFX Expert Sphere Grid is better in my opinion. You get to choose the path your character goes through, you can even make all your characters mages if you want to. Junctioning is basically the freedom of choosing which stat you want to max out instantly.

[@leonard9624]

Expert sphere? Meh still the same.all my chars on ffx has max stats in one or two categories if i remember right

[@godsplayingfield]

@@leonard9624 speed, strength and luck right? literally all you need (well you also need the gear to back it up but that aint a problem)

[@leonard9624]

@@godsplayingfield true,and speed is very important I n beating all the hard bosses

[@altrogeruvah]

It was my favorite level up system of all FF games, I used to spend hours on the menu, being creative and shuffling magic and GFs around. But then again, I loved grinding for XP and stocking magic for hours, so there's that.

[@Patchnose]

Started 8 for the first time today. I was so overwhelmed with its intro after failing to beat Ifrit in the 10 minute timeframe (the game didn't explain what the time means so I assumed 10 minutes was easy) and getting a game over I decided the game needed research before properly tackling. I think I have the patience for the game I just hope I enjoy it and dont get frustrated.

[@SlimThrull]

How'd it go?

[@Patchnose]

@@SlimThrull I cant say I made it that far. While I fully understood the junction system and what I was doing I was constantly feeling like I was missing stuff whenever I checked a walkthrough to point me in the right direction. That didnt feel good. Also the draw mechanic really ripped the patience from my mind. I made it to the part where Seifer stops the broadcast and something happened (I cant quite remember because I stopped playing when I picked up FF7 remake) I dont hate the game but I might need to give it another proper go.

[@SlimThrull]

@@Patchnose Ah. I rather enjoyed the game when it first came out. But it was a different era back then. I tried to replay it a couple years ago and found it quite tedious. It's not a bad game, per se. It's just not a good game either.

[@Patchnose]

@@SlimThrull Im just a bit bummed because I was loving where the story was going. It also didnt help that my current gaming setup is less than ideal and doesnt make for long sessions. I cant properly gel with a game I cant sink my teeth into. Hopefully I can play the game and enjoy it under proper circumstances later down the road. I did not hate my time with it. I guess now just wasnt my time to play it.

[@justusthedeep]

I've always held the thought that the Junction System is a make your own difficulty system. Usually when I play now, I only put first level spells into my stats and level up to make the game more challenging, and it also opens the window to more magic focused characters and summons that become redundant later on in the game.

[@emb21982]

Exactly! On my first playthrough I decided to just roleplay the character and not go out of my way to collect magic. I just played out the game making decisions based on what I thought the character would do and enjoying the story and exploration element. Only have a few magic junctioned? No time to go farm more or level up, we have a sorceress to kill! It made the bosses a lot more challenging but made the game more fun as it forced me to be creative just using whichever magic or items I had to hand.

[@MagitekBahamuto]

Give 100 Ultimas to ATK. Profit.

[@tripwirecreator25]

Str - 100 Ultima and HP - 100 Full-Life were the must-have junction for me.

[@rmsgrey]

I prefer sticking Ultima on Elem Def - anyone with an elemental attack gives a cure effect without spending magic.

[@bleakm1343]

Definitely STR-up on Squall in early game. At the end of the game I'll junction Flare or Tornado and have 255 attack. Keep two characters low leveled, for me, Rinoa and Irvy. In Disc 3, get Cactuar, and grind Rinoa to Level 100 with four Stat-up abilities junctioned. Rinse and repeat for Irvy, equip low level spells on stats and save Ultimas, Meteors, Flares and Full-Lifes for other stats and Elem/Stat junctioning. Easy.

[@leonardoplis1]

That's actually a terrible idea. Ultima is great at pretty much everything and it's easy to max out Str with something less useful, like Quake or Tornado. Throw 100 Ultimas at Elemental Defense and never worry about elemental damage again.

[@hunteranubis]

Ultima for STR is a waste put it for elemental resists and do this get Zell card turn it to 60% str put it on Ifrit then add 20 40 60% dmg on Squall. Game over for everything before you even go to Dolet spam normal attack

[@emphaticrevelation7628]

ffviii is my favorite in the series. I've played through multiple times and even maxed out all of the characters using the devour command and refining things like cactus needles into speed ups.

[@TheViolaBuddy]

Those eight aspects of fun in games, I'm not familiar with them. Could you do a video just talking about them and how they're used in different games (or maybe have you already done a video like that)?

[@AhsimNreiziev]

+

[@ChannelOfJoris]

He co-authored a research paper about it: rogel.io/content/projects/hunicke2004mda.pdf It's a good read. Even though it does not go in-depth into the eight aspects of fun, it proposes a model on how they are established by games and perceived by players.

[@jeromeciarkowski1367]

Shadowskull slayer thanks for be link!

[@KnakuanaRka]

@@jeromeciarkowski1367 Where’s the link?

[@jeromeciarkowski1367]

I wish I still had the link. It appears as if Shadowskull slayer delete his account.@@KnakuanaRka

[@chriskrause6280]

I think Mike over at Resonant Arc said it best in regards to Junctuoning: What broke it wasn’t junctioning itself, it was that it was paired with an incompatible leveling system. Having the enemies scale with you wasn’t a good idea with Junctioning, because you can easily beef up your party without having to level.

[@nathanenfinger9559]

Had, in my experience, one of the best opening out of all the FF series

[@jeffhanson7085]

The junction system was one of my favorite parts of ff8 it actually replaying 8 as we speak. I have so much fun going through and card modding everything to death before the seed test and just demolishing everything afterwards. The system did take some time to grasp but after you get it it’s really amazing how much you can control everything.

[@FeelingShred]

One question I have: are the changes and improvements made by GF's permanent? Or they only last for that specific Battle? And when it says GF is "learning" something, does it learn all the time or does it only "counts time" inside of battles? How much is one time unit for "learning"?

[@FeelingShred]

I will make a commitment to finish Disc 1 at least... it felt so unnatural beating a Fire Dragon kind of boss inside a Volcano within the first 10 minutes of gameplay... it's like there is no consequences to your actions, no danger, no Survival elements, it feels like you will win battles no matter what WTF LOL

[@FeelingShred]

another question: my teacher or whatever just told me in a dialog box that I have a Gun and I have to press R1 to use it?? but when I press R1 in battles, nothing happen? do I have to equip this weapon or what? R1 Trigger? this is kinda hilarious now

[@Rhythmier]

Step 1: Get Diablo, ASAP! Step 2: Learn Enc-None, ASAP! Step 3: continue playing the game without normal battle,"drawing",and stay as low level as possible Step 4: Get Cactuar Step 5: Equip HP Bonus, Str Bonus, Vit Bonus, Mag Bonus, Spr Bonus Step 6: Island of Heaven/Hell Congratulations, you've broke the game

[@Rhythmier]

did I mentioned easy?

[@GilbertGuilford]

Step 5: You can only equip 4 of those with Bahamut's Ability x4. Drop the STR BONUS, since it is easiest to get STR-UPs (okay HP-UPs are easier but you need waaaaaaaaaay more of them to hit the limit). I just finished the build where all characters are at 255 in base stats, 9999HP, everyone except Zell is at 255% chance to hit and max evasion (triple junctioned to it). It's really bad that there is no way to teach any GF Hit-J ability.

[@Rhythmier]

GilbertGuilford yup, I usually drop either str or mag depending on character (well, it only depends on Rinoa since only her "magic stock" affects her limit break) well, nothing a well place junction can't max, though I'm quite sure on my last play through, my Zell doesn't even needs a junction to max STR since we fought jumbo cactus at level 14 (I think squall was less than level 20 too, can't remember) as for hit and evasion, [triple] should do the trick, there's another one that's just as effective but I can't remember (its been more than a decade)

[@catsozen]

Step 7 : Get screwed by a single Malboro

[@CyanMedic]

Unprepared? One of FF8's biggest flaws, speaking as someone who considers it his favorite FF of all time, is that low level runs aren't a challenge, they're fucking EASIER. Enemies, ALL enemies, including bosses, scale with you. Short of those knobs on said afterlife islands, of course.

[@samfivedot]

What I didn't like about the Junction system is that it effectively makes every party member feel almost exactly the same. If everyone is able to do everything, then getting a new character doesn't matter. They seemed to be aware of that, which is why they made Limit Breaks so radically different between characters, but I don't feel like that was enough to really feel substantial. FF7 has this problem too.

[@thorinhannahs4614]

This was my problem with the vanilla FF12 license board. Everyone can do everything and wield everything except quickens and summons. This is why I love FF9 my black mage is a black mage and my white mage is a white mage.

[@YoungCoLLC]

Personally, I love the junction system. Sure, the first few hours of constant drawing get annoying, but it definitely beats level grinding. Materia combinations are fun, but being able to gunblade crit full 9s on the first disk by working out the game's secrets provides that feeling of being a mad scientist like when you mime Cloud's Omnislash multiple times. Both take grinding, but FF7 boils down to constant mob grinding while FF8 has alternatives like item and card modifications. But hey, different strokes for different folks.

[@mikegonzalez4551]

Yup grinded to get the Lion heart on disk 1

[@CrashAriMP5N2O]

Before the end of disc 2, I very much have all magic except meteor, which requires Bahamut to refine the magic. There's a refillable ultima draw point at Shumi village and you can efficiently farm it by coming back to it after doing things like queen of cards and other side quests available at that point in between. G-missile base also has a hidden refillable Full-Life but is less efficient because you're confined to the base. Card modding Chimeras can be tedious because it is a 10-1 conversion and no other method exists to get Full-Life from refining so I just fill the rest of them by drawing from Bahamut when I get to it. I could draw from a lv. 30 Tonberry King but lv. 20 is my limit (to access some mid level enemies that cannot be influenced by Lv Up/Down) before I break away from the no level up game play.

[@Nomimonyo]

Only time i grinded was to get apocalypse sword from a mob in ff7. You can beat the game no problem. Now if you're a completionist then yes, grinding would be ideal. But ff7 really didn't need you to grind 😉

[@gabrielmartin2197]

FFVIII is the best FF I played in the series. The story, the characters, the battle system, the music, everything is so perfect. I started to play this young when I didn't speak english so I played through and even defeated Elvoret without a single junction. I had a big facepalm when I realized what I missed :DDDD I love how you can customize your characters with the Junction system, it's so unique.

[@SirMoFoDans4]

You gotta play more games.

[@WeazelGaming]

Personally I always felt like knowing the Junction System inside and out making a mockery of the rest of the challenge was the point? It's just like knowing any other game system inside and out. Congratulations, you've learned everything we could hope to teach you and now have the skills necessary to break the difficulty curve over your knee. Now enjoy the spectacle of your god characters making a laughing stock out of a boss you had trouble with BEFORE you mastered Junctioning.

[@AhsimNreiziev]

Also, the difference between fighting a battle with poor Junctioning, and fighting the same battle having mastered Junctioning, shows how weak the Characters are on their own and how insanely powerful the Guardian Forces are. Since I *love* games that tie their "gameplay" elements into their "lore/plot/setting" elements, this is one of the things that I've always found most appealing about _Final Fantasy VIII_ . Then again, I'm heavily biased due to it being my favourite game of all time, but still....

[@NetherlandsFirst]

Breaking the difficulty *curve* and breaking the difficulty/game are two entirely different things.

[@6squall9]

It's not that breaking, you will end up grinding quite a lot to fill those slots with thousands of magic spells, so it will still take some time, it's just very rewarding if you know what to do, like look up a guide or something. But if you just wander around and try to get all the stuff you need it will take you long enough you can't really call that gamebreaking, more like grinding for easy mode.

[@NetherlandsFirst]

My point was that it's not like knowing any other game system inside and out. Because games aren't supposed to become ridiculously "laughing stock" easy if you understand how their systems work. Playing a game without it being challenging defeats the entire point of playing the game. It's more than just 'rewarding' if you know how to make use of the junction system. It's game-breaking... even without farming thousands of spells. I remember just junctioning ultima (or just 100 of any strong spell) to my attack and being able to destroy everything with melee attacks alone. That combined with easily spammable limit breaks (Punch Rush, Booya) was just ridiculous. The game should've somehow had safeguards against that kind of exploitation, as most games do. The fact that it requires some farming doesn't make it any less game-breaking.

[@6squall9]

Idk, i think it's nice you are rewarded for being patient and drawing the shit out of enemies for hours. Which is obviously not what devs intended you to do, but since you decided you are gonna grind the shit out of the drawing system, it's nice you get really rewarded for it. Don't forget it's not irreversible either, not like you became super powerful now and its boring for the rest of the game. Just replace some stronger infusions and you are having fun again :) So it's you to blame if you choose to ruin your own experience. While devs could arguably made soft caps and shit, i think it's cool they allowed us to achieve incredible strength if we chose to do so.

[@ShadowMuppetX]

A couple of things I think that could have helped the game (disregarding obvious stuff like better tutorials, ect.): 1. Eliminate levels all together - Enemies should have just had set stats and a set stock of spells to draw. It felt vestigial here. 2. Some ability to boost draw rates - 1-9 per cast is maybe okay at the beginning, but by the middle of the game, it's frustrating. 3. Make the Summon command unlockable later - Giving you free GF casting meant you had an elemental attack more powerful than any spell right from the start, further disincentivisig you from ever using spells. 4. One more command ability slot - Debatable, but I always left out potentially useful abilities just because GF, Magic/Item, Draw were absolutely necessary in most situations (only dropping Draw on the occasion that I needed to use Card). I'm iffy about removing stuff that made the game easy to cheese (like aura), but perhaps they should have been harder to amass. Sometimes cheesing the game is the most fun you can have in an RPG, but they should have made you more hesitant to waste it. The biggest problem, obviously, is how it disincentivises you from using spells. I...don't have a solution for that because it's central to the game. The best thing I can think of is to have a separate item you refine to create castable spells. This unrefined item is what you draw from enemies and junction to your stats. That way, spells are a separate stock of items and you don't have to pull from your junctioned stock unless you're running low.

[@davisdawson5047]

For the spell problem, giving them a cap to how much of them are needed to give max stat is the answer. For example the basic cure spell could have a stat bonus cap of 50, which mean you only need 50 in stock to have the full benefit, and any extra you draw can be used without jeopardizing your character build. Mid level could have 70 cap and high level ones 90. This will serve as a "Max MP" for the spell where you can use 50/30/10 of each spell.

[@ksfstudios]

I love FF8 and the junction system, I also love that it took a while to grasp, but once i had it you can beat everything in the game into next week without much thought. Just like any other game, once you git gud ain't no stopping you! The only real challenge in the game for a mastered player is Omega Weapon, and that's only on the first few fights before you figure out his attack pattern is essentially on repeat, otherwise just a generic superboss that'll wipe you if you don't know what's next.

[@AhsimNreiziev]

Omega is also pretty easy if you get access to Gilgamesh's Card and turn said Card into 10 Holy Wars. Then, if you happen to figure out -- or, far more likely, if a guide tells you -- that you can get any lost/refined Rare Card back from the CC Group Diamond girl standing on the player's left, you can get 100 Holy Wars very easily, making Omega be a cake walk since he literally can't hurt you.

[@Nobody-ve6dh]

Junction system still one of my favorites systems in one of my favorite games of all time. Figuring out the junction system by myself when this originally came out in 1999 was incredible and one of my favorite gaming memories. Eventually figuring out I could make Squalls second best sword before even taking the SEED exam just by beating Zells mom in Triple Triad a bunch. FF8 so underrated.

[@maggiebrinkley4760]

I love the Junction system! It's so adaptable! Selphie makes an awesome Tank!

[@Jargonfox]

I recently did a full run of FF8 in which I just... well, cheesed everything with Card Mod. It was definitely fun getting 100 Tornados for each character within Balamb Garden, but... eh, yeah, goodbye challenge. I'm thinking of doing a run in which I just simply don't use Draw within battles, except for getting GF's, and just avoid playing with cards or using the Card skill in the battle. Also gonna avoid just buying Tents so that I don't max out on Curagas either. Who knows, I might even try not using Enc-None. Yeeaaah once you know what you're doing in FF8 you kind of need to place some limitations on yourself so you don't just ruin the fun.

[@tripwirecreator25]

I agree, this game taught me how to break a game without a Gameshark or how to make it challenging by not getting the juicy Junction setups.

[@Charoy612]

You sound like the type of person who might also enjoy the "No Level Challenge" that to my knowkledge, is a unique draw of FF8's system.

[@Jargonfox]

That's kiiinda what I did Charlotte, I was around level 15 when I beat the game. Not leveling up as much/at all makes the game easier, since in FF8 enemies scale with you and get stronger skills and magic when they are higher level. If you don't level up but still abuse the junctions the game becomes pretty easy.

[@rmsgrey]

Yeah, it's not so much an issue with trash mobs, but anything with HP over the 9999 damage limit just keeps getting harder the higher level you are simply because you need to hit it more times to finish it off.

[@floresjon87]

What I did was stay as low leveled as possible until I got all the GFs. Then equipped all the GFs who has the stat bonus skills on one character and then level that one character up to 99. I was around level 20 when I did this. So Squall had +79 base stats. So I didn't need to equip the best magic to each category

[@TheSilverPhoenix100]

The issue ive always had it the system isnt balanced...at all. When you dont understand it you basically cant win as enemies are far and away more powerful than you as they level up with you. But when you do grasp it you become basically too powerful. And once you learn how to refine items into spells and ways to obtain those items you are a god able to easily one shot most bosses. This also limits you to never using items and never casting spells which i feel really limits your playing style at endgame to be cast Aura, spam limit breaks which in the end eliminates a key factor of any rpg, strategy . I had to actually handicap myself to get any challange out of the game which kind of shows how broken the system is

[@ArcboundX]

I remember jumping into FFVIII as a kid, fresh out of the FF 1 and 2 ports for the GBA, so a pretty radical difference, and while the Junctioning system felt very confusing at first, i just persevered through it, and completely enjoyed it down the road, i remember keeping a notebook handy with a lot of calculations i did for the hell of it, trying to find the best magic for each stat, as a kid with no internet. It's simply put, not a game for everyone, and definitely a far cry from the normie-tier, creatively bankrup design that has come from SquareEnix and a lot of the copy-paste, rpg gaming industry at times.

[@GrieverSSBU]

You hit the nail on the head with your closing statement. The junction system while clunky on your first playthrough can be your best friend if you know what you are doing. Not to mention if you do a few hours of grinding you can realistically have the Lionheart by the end of disc 1. Final Fantasy VIII was my favorite of the series BECAUSE it was different. The games that tried something new always seem to stick out for me. Most of the time it's a good thing in my opinion like FFVIII OR FFXII but sometimes it doesn't do it for me like FFXIII. Either way I appreciate the fact that you weren't just pooping on it yet instead took the time to see what it did both right and wrong. Great video. Keep it up.

[@colmkendrick7480]

I started playing this game when I was like 6 and didn't understand most of the words in the game nevermind the tutorials but I just tinkered stuff in the game and ended being an absolute beast at the game. Without understanding what I was doing I done a great job 😂

[@Blirre]

Yep. I played it the first time when I was about 10 and my English skill at that time was very inadequate to understand all the fancy words, instructions and politics going on. But I had a great time and drew magic like crazy! Junctioning isn't really that hard when you just try it out and soon realize when your stats are going up and when they're not. I prefer drawing magic to random battle grinding for levels which I did for FF9 honestly.

[@colmkendrick7480]

@@Blirre Yea I remember being obsessed with having 100 of all magics so when if come across an enemy that had magic I didn't have id just stay there and draw until full. 😂 Do you think that playing the game helped with your English?

[@Blirre]

@@colmkendrick7480 For sure. I'm Finnish, and at the time we started learning English at the age of 9. I've played a ton of games since then and we never get localization except for some educational games so I've always played in English. I probably didn't understand the real meaning of words like 'strenght', 'spirit', 'reflect' and 'cure', but I understood what they did in regards to the game and of course it helps to have that understanding. Sometimes the game gave instructions that I didn't understand, such as with the train heist and finding the white seed ship. It was just trial and error with those and eventually I got it right. At the time I think there were some early online guides available also, so we tried to parse those with a friend as well.

[@colmkendrick7480]

@@Blirre That's great, I've always felt that my vocabulary was good for my age at the time because of playing FF8 and always wondered if the game had similar effects on other people. Fair play to you for figuring out that white seed ship, I had no idea what to do and got my brother to do it for me 😂

[@Blirre]

@@colmkendrick7480 Well I basically sailed through the whole world to find it... so I dunno if I should be commended for it. :D I think they used the word 'peninsula' to describe where it was and I had no idea what a peninsula was. Anyway... they were hiding so I guess they did a great job!

[@IN-tm8mw]

I remember grinding this game so hard by the time i was done with it, most of my characters were immune to all the power magic spells and absorbed the effects to heal me I think. I think i had more fun trying to figure out what i could do with the Junction System than the story itself.

[@DanTheScrewUp]

I am so mixed with the junction system, on one hand i loved it because I'm a grind leveler and do enjoy being a bit more powerful then i should be. Within 20 minutes of starting FF 8 my Squall is doing 1200 damage per hit. On the other hand as people have said it discourages you from using magic and makes you pretty much far too powerful early on, using card mod you can have most peoples late game weapons and super powerful magic to make your stats super high while still on disc 1. I think instead of junctioning the amount of magic you had it should just have junctioned the actual magic so when you gain access to a new spell it allows you to junction it and you level that particular spell up.

[@Yet_another_placeholder]

I loved the system for how utterly broken yet reliable it was. I distinctly recall completing the entire game without ever leveling up even once. Fun times, though it takes more planning than most other games in the series to be enjoyable

[@Dragonfire511]

I agree with your conclusion. It takes tinkering and patience to understand the junction system but i liked it. FF8 is my favourite also.

[@danielhadida3915]

Actually, the Junction system was already present in FFVI, but without the chore aspect : you just linked a magicite to a character and he would eventually learn (through battles) the skills possessed by the magicite. It appeared quite late in the game, though, whereas FFVIII junction system appears very early and allows players to break the game quite immediately.

[@nelsonsmg77]

I remember not understanding this system at all, all of my battles can be summed up as "invoking gfs non stop". That didn't work with the witch that absorbs rinoa (3rd disc?), then I figured out what was the draw command for and what I had to do

[@tripwirecreator25]

My first playthrough in a nutshell, then I can't imagine the characters losing all memories due to excessive GF usage.

[@bigports]

Nelson SMG did the exact same thing 😂

[@willyolio9590]

You only quickly mentioned the enemy levelling up system, but that is directly linked to the problems of the junction system. Because of the refining/card mod system, you don't get the strongest magic and best stats from stronger monsters. You can have extremely powerful magic junctioned to fight weak monsters/bosses through the card game. a lot of RPG players are min/maxers, or at least don't want to make things harder for themselves. And the most powerful way to play is... run away from every fight and never level up. It doesn't just take away the level grind, it makes levelling up a long-term disadvantage. Not to mention the way it makes you hoard magic and never use powerful magic. The junction system had lots of flaws, and needed a lot of changes to make it worthwhile to actually play the game. 1. make all stat boosts percentages instead of flat stat bonuses - this takes away the game-breaking boosts that low-level characters get from equipping high-end magic. 2. make the stat boost the same no matter how many spells you have in stock. Want the spell just for junctioning? Just draw once. Want to actually cast the spell? Go ahead. 3. The damned tutorials and help menu were of no help, and the abbreviations were horrible. It needs a modern system with more room for text, and a more intuitive layout. Colours and less-blurry icons would help.

[@Laezar1]

Honestly they could have made the system much simpler and work better by changing just a few things : 1) Remove spell count and make spells binary learned/not learned. 2) Keep junction the same except remove the scaling on spell count. 3) When you use a spell in battle, if it's junctioned remove the junction bonus. 4) Allow for infinite spell usage and balance spells around that. Here you go. Now no grind required (you need to figure out how spells are gained though), players are still discouraged from using spells that are junctioned but it can become a strategic element (junction a powerful spell but use it at some point in the battle to trade your stats for a powerful effect). And you still keep the same freedom for your character developpement.

[@vicio19995]

@POWERBOX911 you mean "materia"

[@vicio19995]

@POWERBOX911 i know but materias are magic stones that let you cast magic, and it should be the item that you level to get stats with the juncion sistem, instead of wasting charges or msybe you mean , that we dont should be able to cast anything without magicstones? items are for that granades ftw maybe i dindt get what you mean feel free to explain a bit

[@Shiro92224]

The system is simple

[@vanessamoore8425]

Soooo happy to see a video giving due credit to this chapter of the FF series. It's such a beautiful game to play. I can't believe this doesn't get as much love as it deserves.

[@TupieSan]

I remember as a kid I was struggling a lot with the junction system. But I loved the challenge and it made replays of the game seem unique. Because even though the story doesn't change, how you progress through the game feels new every single time. Also TT took up soooo much of my time :D

[@Supern0va64]

NEW VIDEO YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I LOVE THESE

[@Nocturne22]

I feel like FFX's sphere grid was the simplification and perfection of what they wanted to do here with the junction system

[@thejellybeansniper]

FF8 is my favorite game of all time, and I love the junction system and everything about it because I can play the game at my own pace, but I totally get why people hate it. It's also the first RPG I ever played so that could be why I didn't care about the standards.

[@crouchingtiger1797]

Your channel is so underrated. Glad I found you!

[@impcirca1988]

I really enjoyed weighing up the value of each spell as a resource, even as a kid it added an extra tactical layer that I like. The idea of having to farm magic endlessly doesn't really pan out, because you can only junction on or two spell to start of with, and gain new junctions gradually. Aside from that oversight this was a nice piece of critique that has only made me want to go back for another playthrough ....

[@clovermite]

Personally, I enjoyed the junction system, even though I never mastered it. The story on the other hand, I feel was weak. It started off rather strongly, but fell apart about halfway through. They just didn't spend enough time on character development. I could tell that Seifer was somehow supposed to be some kind of tragic character, but he just came across as a juvenile bully who occasionally deluded himself into thinking that he was some kind of hero. Squall also came across as an emotionally devoid, wannabe bad boy, The romance also fell flat - first they're fighting then suddenly they decide to start liking each other on what almost feels like the turn of a dime. Then the explanation of the succession of witches and time compression felt rushed and confusing. I think FF8 had my favorite themes - it had the potential to be really awesome, but the delivery was mediocre at best.

[@elicenyne]

i can’t stop calling guardian forces girlfriends lmao

[@nonyabizz9390]

I don't see a point to discussing pros and cons. Here are the cons: You need to grind for magic, where only some spells are actually useful. Once you have enough of the best spell possible for the moment, for each stat, you equip them.... and are best off not using them, because high stats are more useful than using the magic, no matter how useful the magic is. Every character has to draw as much magic as possible, making any and every battle a chore, as you figure out what spells are available, spend the next 15 minutes healing and drawing, and then ending what should have been a 15 second fight. Oh, wait! Better magic is available now! Better do it all again, so you can get even stronger! Now that your old spells are all obsolete, you can use them, because they don't matter! It is an asinine, stupid system, that takes too much time to stock up for, too much time re-arraigning things through menus to stay at your best, especially during character shifts, and that incentives you to NOT use a battle mechanic, magic, because any and every use could harm your characters, especially when you cast hard to obtain spells.

[@Changetheling]

...for people that played the way you did, it certainly might seem that way. Not for the rest that actually understood the concept. Nice effort though.

[@rsamstein6093]

I mean I generally agree. Different minds prefer different systems. For analytical minds, the junction system is perfect because it rewards intuition via breaking down in-game systems such as card mod and item refinement. If you don’t care about SPAMing attack and only needing a few spells to win the game (aura, life, triple, etc) then it’s fun and rewarding. I think that people who prefer more traditional JRPG gameplay e.g. class systems and customizing around 2-3 variables such as pre-set classes and base stats are totally in their right to not like FFVIII. I personally enjoyed the game for its story, environment, characters, and ambitious themes. Those kept me playing. But I’m more of a traditionalist so I tend to replay FF games with more streamlined character progression.

[@leonard9624]

You are stupid if u take too much time arranging things.there are such things as auto and you can transfer magic from one party to another. You are just an idiot

[@dreamwhisperer2340]

I love ff8, but to me the biggest problem of this game is that if you want to minmax it, you can't level until the end of the game. It makes playing it through while taking care not to gain any xp a real chore, and can ruin the experience, especially on a first play through, and you discover you have commited a mistake at end of the game by grinding from the begginning.

[@Jiradevan]

It was my favourite system

[@poseidoncountsasabigfish2646]

FFVIII was my introduction to the series and fortunately I had a friend who knew enough to help guide me. I would have to say that it is my favourite game in the series and the only one for me to finish (although I would have finished VII by now if I had just double saved). I have always said this and have seen it elsewhere, but the junction system is awesome in concept but a failure in execution.

[@FeelingShred]

One question I have: are the changes and improvements made by GF's permanent? Or they only last for that specific Battle? And when it says GF is "learning" something, does it learn all the time or does it only "counts time" inside of battles? How much is one time unit for "learning"?

[@FeelingShred]

another question: my teacher or whatever just told me in a dialog box that I have a Gun and I have to press R1 to use it?? but when I press R1 in battles, nothing happen? do I have to equip this weapon or what? R1 Trigger? this is kinda hilarious now

[@poseidoncountsasabigfish2646]

@@FeelingShred I'll do my best to explain XD The effects and stat increases the GF's give you last as long as you have it equipped, although the stat increases are directly connected to the type and amount of magic you've Junctioned to it; remove that magic and the stat goes back to normal. On top of that, different magic is better for different stats, i.e. Cure magic is better for HP than Fire. As for the GF learning skills, you get AP at the end of battles alongside EXP. If a skill requires 100, then it means 100 AP. Those skills are either permanently active (such as stat increases) or provide another option for your in-battle commend menu. It's worth checking your GF's as you get them for any interesting skills, such as Boost.

[@poseidoncountsasabigfish2646]

​@@FeelingShred With this, it's about timing. Press R1 just as Squall hits the opponent for a damage boost. It's also used for his limit, Renzokuken.

[@FeelingShred]

@@poseidoncountsasabigfish2646 🙏🙏

[@CovaDax]

I loved FFVIII. I thought the junction system was cool.

[@coolguy02536]

Reyon88 6 7 and 9 were all AWFUL kiddo. Run along now.

[@Reyon88]

Not as bad as 8 though

[@coolguy02536]

No, they were worse.

[@killianoshaughnessy1174]

I agree, the damn junction system was just damn confusing when you're 7 lmao

[@jlack1985]

FFVIII was my first Final Fantasy, played it a few times in junior high over a summer. I didn't problems understanding the junction system, maybe understanding the abbreviations because they do suck, but otherwise it felt intuitive to me. It does have it's drawbacks but I still love it.

[@justhomas83]

I respect your retrospective on FF8 junction system dynamics. This over view was a fantastic explanation. Also the reason I love this title in the series. Learning curve was high but it was a bit bitter sweet. This was good because the leading curve was earned through play time. Good day sir.

[@steveh1474]

the worst part of junctioning is that you effectively cannot cast magic offensively through the game, because you have to equip those spells to your stats. if you wanna heal with Curaga, like most people do, then you cant equip what is effectively one of the best pieces of gear in the game. however, even though spell casting is generally frowned upon through the games mechanics, Rinoas Angel Wing limit break is completely busted. she enters a Berserk status for the rest of the battle, however she only casts offensive spells in her inventory. because this is a limit break, it overrides actions from both the player, and the enemies. this means that, through using defensive and support spells like Haste and Triple, you can maximize her Magic and Speed, cast haste and aura on her with someone else, then enter Angel Wing status against Omega Weapon, and HE LITERALLY NEVER GETS A SINGLE TURN. why? because your limit break overrides every move he tries to make. sooo yeah. FF8 is completely broken.

[@christophersavignon4191]

Steve H Bullshit. Just cast a few spells that you know you can draw from the enemies in the vincinity or restock through items, and your stats will never take a noticeable hit even if you're casting. You can also have some spells junctioned and others free for use. Yes, you can use your spells, it's only your hoarding mentality and your overestimation of a few stat points holding you back. If you need to use tons of Curaga, you should reevaluate your strategy, because that only happens when you play really badly. Not to mention that by the time you have full stocks of Curaga, you should also have the [Heal] command available, which allows full recovery without any expenses. Same goes for Life and the [Revive] command. That should be trivial knowledge if you are able to lock down omega. Or did you just get that from a guide and actually know very little about the game?

[@bennhall2777]

I don’t remember healing in battle at all The last time I played it

[@arisrayden]

i feel you forgot to mention that enemies don't just level alongside you but also heavily out perform the party stat wise. when you have the same build at level 8 as at level 100 you'll notice that enemies are way way way harder at lv 100. level grinding isn't just discouraged by the enemies balancing it all out with their own level. level grinding is extremely counter productive if you're trying to make the game as easy/fast as possible... also i want to see someone do a sub 10h run without using a speedrun route. figuring it all out for yourself and going sub 10 with it seems very unlikely

[@CondemnedGuy]

One of the reasons I stopped playing the game. Carding every enemy to avoid exp is just too darn exhausting.

[@Chelaxim]

Ooh those Level 100 Bug Bites with 140HP so scary!

[@minokimakina832]

i hated the junction system it basically ruined magic and the point of even having a traditional level system and could be way too abusively powerful if it wasn't for that system and the level scaling of all the enemies i probably would have played through ff8 more then once cause it did have alot going for it but i wouldn't wanna deal with playing it again

[@botanbutton]

At first I didn't really like the junction system and it was hard to understand. But now, after playing it on and off throughout the years, I love it so much. So much I can do and know how to do now.

[@davidturner5225]

Really really good review. Im going to listen to some more of your stuff.

[@vanivanov9571]

....If you don't want players to not grind for levels: TAKE OUT LEVELS!!! I remember spending hours grinding in the training area of the school, at the start of the game. When I found out my hours were wasted, as the lowest level enemies outside were inflicting just as much damage... I gave up on the game. That's the epitome of a stupid way of solving a very simple problem.

[@dustincompton992]

While I can appreciate what they were trying to do with the systems of this game... Drawing is tedious, subverting that via the cards involves playing the card game which is just another kind of grinding involving a mini-game I don't like, and when you're done all of your characters are pretty much exactly the same. Maybe this game had a good story in there, but I could never stomach the gameplay itself long enough to find out.

[@theflashgordon193]

you also can change the monster in card

[@RamiruMataro]

ALL. OF. THESE. ABBREVIATIONS. ARE. THE. WORST. I died.....

[@SelphieFairy]

You know, the abbreviations are probably a result of character limits while translating from japanese.

[@japogallarotti7716]

Abbreviations are a bit wierd the first time you see them. Once you get the idea that one screen is about flat stat upgrades, another one about protection from damage (for example fire damage, thunder, etc) and another one about condition effects (like sleep, paralysis etc) is not that complicated. You simply put 100 Morpheus (I guess it is called like this in English) + 100 berserk in status "protection" and 100 esna +100 protection/reiz (if you are not using it for HP) in "defense" and you're all good

[@EidoEndy]

I was really hit or miss with this system. Like Some of configurations are neat, and it's quite easy to break the game in half once you know what you are doing, but I generally didn't like spells as glorified items to throw. This is a game where I don't fault anyone for using a guide because some GF's are easy to miss forever. It's also a game that REALLY could have benefited from a new game + mode.

[@chrish1654]

FF VIII was my first FF game, and as a kid not really understanding the systems was still fun. Coming back to it and now re-learning it will be fun.

[@bayurevandy6096]

I'm gonna say it(nitpicking), ff xii is not the first using ivalice setting There's final fantasy tactics and vagrant story So the statement ff viii before ivalice is false

[@Camkitsune]

It's Final Fantasy before Eevaleace.

[@nxakush2304]

Gf?....girlfriend. "Assign a girlfriend" 😂

[@heydun]

Garden mandated girlfriends

[@IanHollis]

You can also use 'Card Mod' to turn cards into magic spells. I don't think the system is broken; I think it's done that way on purpose for replay value.

[@Yojimbo711]

My first playthrough was kinda rough because I hadnt understood the junction system very well admitedly, but this made the game even better to me it was kind of a challenge due to the very complexity of the system. Second playthrough I learned the system very well and kind of abused it, which was really enjoyable as well, so for me the junction system did its part for the game and then some! Needless to say FFVIII is one of my favorite FFS. Great video you made me remember!

[@Cloud971]

Very good explanations on how the game works. I still love this game for letting me play it the way i want.

[@CassidyListon]

I'm more of a "Narrative" guy which is why I didn't really like FF8. For me, FF6 is the best with FF7 in second place. Square hasn't made a good FF game since, although FF12 has its moments.

[@KamiSilver]

VIII has so many great elements. But it's like they aren't well binded together. Something just doesn't work and the game can't shine properly. It's true that it gets tedious and uninteresting halfway through, but I remember really liking specific parts. Feeling that "magic". I am a massive fan of VII and IX, VII is a total masterpiece and IX is just a wonderful and beautiful experience. VIII's story is just not great enough: is has magical individual settings with godly music, but when put together, you eventually can't manage to care enough about the story. I know I will try to fully like it again in the future though. Ps. All FF from X onwards are garbage.

[@Changetheling]

Production values, scope of the plot and the huge world (ALL CONTAINED ON A SINGLE 4.7GB DVD!!!) proves your assumption as wrong. The only sin of FFXII is not having Materia system. FFXII is not garbage. It's the biggest, most beautifully rendered and interesting of Final Fantasy Worlds made with the technology available at that time. You will eventually realize this.

[@joshuasaunders7369]

I never felt like I was even playing XII tho. I dunno...the whole action/rpg blend in the game was odd and awkward to me.

[@23GreyFox]

FF XII is the best in the series.

[@theflashgordon193]

@@23GreyFox I loved ff12 but the story and it's character (vaan and penelo) prevent it to be the best in the series

[@23GreyFox]

​@@theflashgordon193 Vaan and Penelo are indeed annoying, but the world and the gameplay is so much better than all other FF's combined. I hate battles on extra screens. I never cared much for the story anyways, it was always the same.

[@ArtificialNinea9]

The fact the game was faster, less of a grind, and actually easier if you faught minimally made this system a complete failure in my eyes, I quit a good chunk into disc 2 because mashing escape to hit story beats that continually got weirder and nonsensical was no longer fun.

[@Zayindjejfj]

It does seem kind of weird doesn't it? The battle mechanics basically teaches you NOT to participate in it. That's really counterproductive to what an rpg is supposed to be about gameplay wise.

[@bes5164]

the best video on KZbin! thank you :) I love the Junction System and even more because of its complexity :)

[@KillerKrieg]

This video is very brilliant. It explains FF8's junction system and highlights it's flaws and it's positives in a way that doesn't spoil how to get a perfect build for someone who has not yet played the game yet. Having done both paths, I'd say this game is funner without a guide, flying by the seat of your pants, trying not to get a game over than knowing what to do.

[@rowlandbuck2703]

Triple triad and having to collect magic spells where the reasons why I quit about 2 hours into it. Mostly the collecting magic spells.

[@MerkhVision]

I just started playing this game and I'm really enjoying the draw and junction system! Its pretty addictive and gives extra incentives to battle. I dont think its that hard to figure out. The mandatory tutorials were detailed yet concise and did a good job of teaching me how to play. But Im playing the PS1 version and it looks kinda shitty, what version is the footage in this video from? It looks so much cleaner, crisper, and higher res than mine! EDIT: Did some research, and it looks like this is from the PC version, right?

[@kouron]

(4 month later) yeah, looks like it, especially when noticing his button prompts.

[@DigitallyDelirious]

I hate the draw system. It's so tedious, and I thought the junction system was a needlessly convoluted solution to something that wasn't a problem in the first place. I, also, thought the story was dumb and the characters were dull

[@josedias8247]

Never have I posted a comment on a single KZbin video. Just to say that your review on this, (ff8 junction) was perfect. Thank you

[@Charsept]

10:00 Oh man... that music ... nostalgia bomb right there