Final Thoughts on Free Will (Episode

[@genzcurmudgeon8037]

My favourite thing about the lack of fee will argument is that it makes it completely senseless to hate anyone. If someone is destructive, get away from them, the same you’d get out of a tornados path, but you don’t hate the tornado. Beautiful. This has helped inoculate me from becoming resentful. Love it. Also, how the lack of free will and the lack of the self goes together is beautiful. It’s a process. We are more or a verb than a noun, as Alan Watts says ;)

[@julianmarx2002]

Of course, if the "self" does not exist in the ultimate sense, and "I" is contiguous with the entirety of the universe (the latter being admittedly, a murky claim), then the exact opposite of the absence of free will is true: EVERYTHING, everywhere, is being done by "I" (correctly understood), and "I" am "willing" everything- after all, every neutrino in every far reach of the universe is part of me; which is really the same thing as if NOTHING were being done by me. I think for this reason, Alan Watts himself often considered the formal philosophical debates on topics such as free will from the POV of Wittgenstein, as being mostly bad language games, and akin to looking disjointedly at two halves of a single cat through a hole in a fence, and concluding that the halves are really two different entities.

[@conscious_being]

So you are "free" to hate or not hate, get away or not get away? I guess no one is "free" to be stupid or not.

[@conscious_being]

@Mike Kane To have no free will implies zero control over _anything_ and _everything_ including whether to be a nihilist or not.

[@cobracommander8133]

I think some people actually do hate tornados.

[@Luftgitarrenprofi]

If hatred doesn't make sense, then love doesn't either. Positively interpreted experience being preferable doesn't make it more reasonable than hatred, unless ethics is the bedrock of all of human reason.

[@buggybored]

I forgive myself for every stupid thing I've ever done. Thanks, Sam!

[@jamescampbell9236]

And I have forgiven you

[@Luftgitarrenprofi]

@@blankname5177 Isn't forgiveness the one necessary step that absolutely has to be taken to stop hating anyone? You could say that you forgive but don't forget, but if you don't forgive and don't forget, then isn't that the very definition of hatred?

[@chewyjello1]

And that's the value in letting go of free will. It's especially valuable for someone who has to deal with a lot of shame. Still the illusion will continue to creep back in. I like to listen to Sam's arguments sometimes just to remind myself. :)

[@aaron2709]

It is senseless to forgive something that could not have been otherwise. Ironic this podcast is called 'Making Sense.'

[@libertyprime9307]

Now, recall credit for all the positive choices you've made too.

[@playmesalsa]

Deterministic court. Lawyer: ...''Ultimately, my client did not commit the crime; he just witnessed it''. Judge: ''No worries then, because ultimately he is not getting the punishment either; he will be just witnessing it''.

[@kennethclay3498]

Exactly

[@humanityandme]

Omggg 😂😭

[@rajendrarajasingam6310]

A very logical answer but according to Hinduism it is real

[@playmesalsa]

@@rajendrarajasingam6310 I also believe it is real; because everything that exists is reality... reasoning, imagination, love or illusion exist in reality there's no other place to be.

[@QueenCityFilmsComm]

Boom 💥

[@livingroomc]

“There is no free will but choices matter” - good enough for me

[@MichaelAntonFischer]

This argument is already the best proof that Sam is wrong on free will. He is like so many that argue against free will, who can’t even think their own argument through

[@livingroomc]

@@MichaelAntonFischer I guess I don’t understand the difference between free will and free choice from a pragmatic or practical perspective.

[@MichaelAntonFischer]

@@livingroomc well, there probably isn’t a big one, the point is just that Sam, like so many „no free will“ proponents can’t conceptionalise the full extend of that position, so they come up with wacky statements like this, to gloss over the fact that their position flies in the face of all the evidence. I mean sure, we are not entirely free to decide, but free will isn’t a complete illusion either.

[@crazy1gadgets1]

"I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become" - Carl Jung

[@michaelmoreno7357]

@@MichaelAntonFischer what's the evidence then??

[@lyonnightroad]

"If you thought of all of those films then we really are in a simulation and it's all about you apparently" - freaking god-tier meta game Sam. Well played.

[@ArchLordXarnor]

He had no choice.

[@laurelangelle3451]

I laughed out loud when he said that, hilarious!

[@jamienorgate3512]

@@laurelangelle3451 me too ha!

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

@@ArchLordXarnor Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@Jonte70]

I've thought about this issue A LOT in recent years and it has brought me huge amount of anxiety, even to the point of having thoughts of suicide (at the worst point even being suicidal) daily... But now it feels like I've finally come to some sort of acceptance of it (after having swung back and forth like crazy between different 'viewpoints' or just plain denial) and that I am starting to learn how to live with it. If anyone reading this has felt the same or at least a bit like this, know that you are not alone and that it is possible to 'get through' it/learn how to cope with it!

[@mikekociolek6888]

@@KrypticSpiderMan I choose to believe Santa exists, I'm with you dude.

[@kenhiett5266]

I understand where you're coming from, although it manifested as nihilism instead of suicide for me. I was an agnostic for the sake of integrity, with an atheist position if I was forced to bet on a conclusive state, before I understood my lack of authorship anyway. Now, I think of it as a productive tool. I've made positive changes I likely would have never made before I was equipped with this information. There are many of these changes in perception we've inherited from those who came before us. What makes this change in perception unique is that it's occurring in our own timeline and isn't common knowledge. I like to imagine what it was like for those who lived when Earth was the center of everything, and even the other side of the body of water you were standing was a mystery. There's a lot of comfort in that limited perspective when you think about it. The narrative of your existence was whatever you wanted it to be. I don't subscribe to the ignorance being bliss way of seeing things, so I'm thankful Ive become aware that free will isn't a thing. Gratitude is another useful tool. How lucky am I to exist during a time of a nearly endless supply of knowledge? How incredible to understand my surroundings at such a resolution. To even exist as one of these high intellect beings in relation to the many other living things is incredible, and I couldn't be more thankful. You could say I've succumbed to convenient thinking like those who came before me, but that's what I admired about their ignorant place in history. You can construct a world of gratitude, too, and I would argue it's better than the illusion.

[@tommyhennessy]

Suicide never occured to me after listening to this, but Im glad you found some peace in the end.

[@Jonte70]

@@tommyhennessy Yeah it's not clear to me either why it should. I have existential compulsive disorder though

[@atta0011]

​@Ken Hiett Very well said, Ken

[@JohnNeal]

I found this podcast to be the most complete reflection on reality that I’ve ever heard, akin to your interview with Donald Hoffman and headless Douglas Harding. I’m grateful for your selfless commitment to humanity, Sam. Thanks.

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads(mother of non dualism) ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@PoloABD]

We feel an enhanced sense of ‘free will’ when things are going our way.

[@terryallen7976]

thats bc we r in harmony with nature going with the flow going against the flow of traffic is only smart if ure riding a bike

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads(mother of non dualism) ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@SillyGoofyjaja]

This was freeing. I listened to hours of your content on this before I finally started to understand. There is so much power in this. I’m a huge fan. Truly grateful.

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads(mother of non dualism) ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@janhradecky3141]

_"Free will is stored in the balls."_ --Ben Stiller- -Sam Harris

[@ChrisKogos]

Lmao 🤣

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

@@ChrisKogos Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads(mother of non dualism) ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@theprousteffect9717]

It's interesting how we're able to point to several different things in our everyday lives in which we had no choice - our sexual orientation, our favorite foods, our favorite bands, etc. - yet we struggle to take that understanding a few steps further and apply it to everything that makes us us.

[@KenTails]

the proust effect Well put! It--although I think it shouldn't, if I was fully rational--often surprises and buffles me to see people talking about themselves or others seemingly with full conviction that they are the self determining agent, a prime mover of sort, while simultaneously talking about their mechanical nature (though, perhaps without much awareness of that), like how to exploit the their own, or other person's (inescapable) biological tendencies to achieve their (also inescapable) desired conditions. Those cannot be true at the same time, and that seems as simple as 1+1=0, yet we can believe both are possible and true at the same time.

[@martinb4272]

@@KenTails This baffles me sometimes aswell, however then I slip back into the reality where I act upon my instincts, blame other people for their transgressions, and consider myself the prime mover of my own reality. If the universe is everything and everything is the universe, how come the phenomenon of human behaviour you decribe here can exist? I guess I can understand that a universe, although likely having a set of laws governing it, does not have to be entirely logically consistent - the law of logical inconsistency probably exists in ours.

[@gatherfeather3122]

@@martinb4272 at the end of the day the models and ideas we form in our mind are beneficial to our biology.

[@Klayhamn]

​@@martinb4272 all human behavior is ultimately the result of biological evolution - so it has little to do with the "universe" as a whole. Humans behave in the way that evolutionary processes led them to behave : those had to be either behaviors that were beneficial or at least neutral in their effect and it's easy to see why it's beneficial for humans to believe they (and others) have free will: it makes the social world more coherent. it would have been incoherent (to a human) and also computationally prohibitive to try to model the world WITHOUT the concept of agents: i.e. - to see each person's behavior as the accumulation of a billion years of evolution, particle paths, neural connections, etc. it is simply not a viable model of the world for a human to process so humans think of others as agents, and of themselves as well - and it is a great model because it gives a lot of predictive power and can help navigate a complex social situation.

[@danielschouteeten9421]

@@gatherfeather3122 Is that always the case?

[@Ngutech]

Who has been treating people with more compassion after digesting this? I certainly have.

[@ramodemmahom8905]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these acts of compassion, are they not also determined?

[@zehahaha2899]

@@ramodemmahom8905 ​Yes, they are! he is the perfect example of educated but not intelligent. He probably plans to regurgitate Sam Harris' ideas among his peers without giving things a second thought. I bet that if you ask him why he feels obligated to act more compassionate, he wouldn't be able to provide a good rationale.

[@warriorinside1989]

Why do you feel obligated to act more compassionate?

[@jamespaternoster7354]

Yes it is ​@@ramodemmahom8905

[@jamespaternoster7354]

@@warriorinside1989 it like everything will be a monolithically long list of predetermined prior causes that make him how he is, how receptive he is to massive amounts of existing as well as new evidence or ideas or not and how willing he is to carry this into his lived experience in terms of how he acts in the causal chain of the universe here on earth in every moment. So effectively how effected and receptive a person is to the truth and evidence for determinism is itself determined by prior causes.

[@cabellocorto5586]

I've honestly started becoming a lot more relaxed in general when I started accepting that free will doesn't exist. For me it feels a lot more calming and liberating to just let go of the reins. Whatever happens, happens. Que sera, sera. If something happens, it was destined to happen by its nature of existing. It couldn't have turned out any other way. The good things, and the bad.

[@pedestrian_0]

The only thing I can point out in your comment is "it was destined to happen" which isn't a helpful way of thinking about it, that's fatalism. With what Sam presents is the ability to improve as a computer that is an instinct machine. The difference between determinism and fatalism is the confusion. Free will is an illusion but that doesn't mean choices don't matter.

[@AnnaPrzebudzona]

@@pedestrian_0 That's a very important differentiation. I'm still somewhat stuck on the difference between fatalism and determinism but I am slowly drifting towards grasping it (I suppose). If a computer can learn, then so should I. I think that the single most basic and perhaps most important capacity we can acquire, is the capacity to direct attention or, perhaps more broadly, to be attentive to what is going on. I mean, it's really hard to grasp the concept of the lack of free will/determinism in combination with the statement that choices matter. Whose choices??? And also, even more important question: how do you combine moral philosophy with determinism, namely for whom and why do choices matter?

[@elioh7273]

@@AnnaPrzebudzona Rather than whose choices, the question is what caused your choices ? you or your imagination of great results that forces you to make those choices? for example, pick a film. The film you chose is not free will, but will have impact on the next film you choose if you keep choosing, just like you've 'chosen' to watch those films before, somehow they got in your brain other than other films.

[@cabellocorto5586]

@@pedestrian_0 Sam disagrees with fatalism, but that's just his own bugbear. He can disagree with it all he wants because it's a 'bad word' but any condition in the universe is a necessary result of prior causes. It was always going to end up that way. I don't believe that fatalism necessarily has to make any stance about choices mattering or not. It follows the same line of thinking that choices matter but you don't make the choices. Fatalism and determinism are the same, people just use the word determinism because it's more marketable.

[@aydenrl]

@@pedestrian_0 Very accurate!

[@Ashalmawia]

"you're not free to want what you don't in fact want". that's how I see it. I've seen it put as "you can do what you want but you can't want what you want."

[@professionalmemeenthusiast2117]

@ZK Tay Of course one can change what they desire, but they have to have a deeper desire to make this change. If you quit smoking your desire to do so was simply stronger than your desire to smoke.

[@dylangarmon8683]

One of the most underrated beautiful expressions of Sam. The 22 mins in experiment was a transitional point in my life.

[@Wingedmagician]

Listening to this while walking my dog at night, being guided through the thought experiments and contemplating the implications was trippy.

[@softwareminimalist]

Who was guiding the dog? 😂

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads(mother of non dualism) ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@michaelmorrisinfarsi]

I know this wasn’t Sam’s intent, but this talk really brought me closer to God today. I opened up my Bible and read Jesus’ words, “Ye are clean already because of the word I have spoken unto you.” All of a sudden, it hit me; that’s the lack of free will. That’s the salvation Sam was talking about (perhaps). That it has already been done for me in some sense, that I don’t have to “try” so hard. I will be who I want to be because I want to be it. Thanks for helpin’ me float like a leaf in a river today, Sam.

[@pedestrian_0]

Sure, if it makes you feel better, though i think it'd be the most optimal to understand reality without the need for religion

[@jamescampbell9236]

Sam is very convincing in his arguments, even with something as controversial as the lack of free will. I believe he is one of the most important voices we have today

[@jlmer616]

He definitely is. He is also a guy who likes his ideas challenged by others who will care to debate them.

[@twntwrs]

@@jlmer616 And then clings to his ideas undettered by not acknowledging effective challenges that were brought.

[@spooky_action]

@@twntwrs found Deepak Chopra

[@twntwrs]

@@spooky_action Harris doesn't have a problem with Deepak style woo. His blind spots are more in the socioeconomic, sociocultural, historical and geopolitical realm. Understandable since those are not his areas of expertise.

[@spooky_action]

@@twntwrs Sam has lightened up over the years on Deepak, but he definitely did have a problem with him. Called him out specifically in very public ways and Deepak was fuming. So any generalized statement like the one you made always invokes an image of a butt-hurt Chopra and/or his syncophants going around spamming forums. Apologies if I misread, lmao. Do you have any specific examples of Harris completely missing a point?

[@gristlegrinder]

I absolutely love the free will talks

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads(mother of non dualism) ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@yoitsjust]

I listened to the entire hour and a half episode. This might be his greatest episode of all time.

[@vladislavkozlov4978]

Does your head hurt from having a completely new operating system installed ? Mine does. I will truly never be the same. 90 minutes changed my life forever ; no more guilt about past mistakes just self compassion and acceptance. I still “choose” to hold myself responsible because it leads to less suffering in the long run .

[@BridgesOnBikes]

If you get the chance, listen to the audio version of his book titled Free Will. It expands on some of the ideas here. Also his conversation with Dan Dennet does a good job of exposing the flaws of the compatiblist argument. I highly encourage you to look into his meditation app as well!

[@chrisbacon4553]

I know king Jew.

[@wanderingdoc5075]

I applied for a free account. Never got an answer to my email.

[@ottam]

@@wanderingdoc5075 WanderingDoc 1 day ago

[@SongsbyCharleneApril]

This (which surely resonates with me) is a game-changer. I feel the heaviness of hatred, regret, and guilt slide off. I know I do not have control. Why? Because I plan an exercise routine and I don’t do it. I want to think only positively and I can’t. I want to work more, but I can’t get myself to work more hours. Thank you, Sam for articulating this subject so eloquently and with sensitivity.

[@robertjsmith]

yeah just relax,go for a walk,look at the tree's and the birds

[@motivationenthalpy9665]

“The lack of freedom makes reason possible” very nice.

[@DroneRoofing]

@ZK Tay sounds like that lack of free will talking

[@livingroomc]

Is the function of reasoning an act of free will?

[@aesirvanir8671]

Reminds me of a well known Kantian aphorism, which is rather the inverse: "I had to restrict knowledge in order to make room for faith".

[@aesirvanir8671]

@ZK Tay What objections do you have to Kant?

[@radscorpion8]

you can easily have both. marinate on that

[@Dr.Jekyll_]

Mr. Harris, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. This information is life changing, it has change how I look at everything. it has been almost a week since I listen to this and came back to write this comment because it took me this long to really understand what this means and reevaluate how "it" even thinks or how I experience thinking I should say. I think is gonna take me years to really understand it but this info lifted the veil. I hope this reaches you.

[@dungeon-wn4gw]

You should try emailing him. It gets much closer to him

[@alanaban3519]

Sam harris is not free to do what he do / he is just uttering words not free to choose his words

[@petervitale4431]

Honestly, I dont think this answer can ever be satisfactorily answered until we know more about how the brain works, and how the subconscious mind or even the unconscious mind works and interacts with each of those levels.

[@pran10000]

Great point.

[@MichaelAntonFischer]

Yes, but we already know enough to condo that Sam is wrong

[@SaltyBoogersDivers]

Lex Fridman asked Sam in his recent clip talking about free will whether its possible that we just don't know some essential feature of consciousness or the mind that would illuminate the answer to the question of free will. Sam basically said its not possible because he couldn't even conceive what it might be. I wonder if humans before Newton could even conceive the notion of gravity? Or if physicists before einstein could even conceive the notion of space-time dilatation... I think Sam has built up this idea so much in his mind and that's the reason he cannot accept he could be wrong

[@stephenlawrence4821]

I think the answer is completely knowable. Belief in free will only starts with a mistake over what oprions are. I can drink tea or coffee with my breakfast. But that doesn't mean I can choose tea in the actual circumstances that I choose coffee. That's just an error.

[@AishiteruonVal]

Sam Harris is a neurologist. He is making these assumptions with all of the information he has gathered not excluding his expertise on the brain.

[@jasonthomas6106]

I have recommended many Sam Harris episodes, but only to certain people. This one #241 "final thoughts on free will" I really want to recommend to everyone. " you are part of reality, whatever it is all together. There is no scope for freedom of will here, the freedom comes in recognizing what the mind is like when you no longer pretend to be controlling experience" Sams work at bringing all the arguments for free will together and explaining what they miss is just brilliant.

[@pedestrian_0]

If I seem to consciously not understand something in the moment, the brain grabs the information and keeps it in the subconscious. For example, when I find myself humming a song I know, the experience of remembering the song becomes extremely vivid, the tempo, every instrument being played in the mind. It was not under my control to remember each individual instrument, it just simply happened. The more comfortable I am with this notion, the less surprised I am about thoughts arising that appear intrusive; I've learned more to disassociate with the self, and associate more with the general experience.

[@ChrisKogos]

"You didn't pick your friends, you didn't pick your nose, you didn't pick your friend's nose." - Sam Harris

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads(mother of non dualism) ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@Elintasokas]

Ah, nice. Free will is my favorite philosophical topic of all.

[@dustinpackard1929]

its boring

[@SerendipitousProvidence]

You had no choice in the matter

[@Elintasokas]

@@SerendipitousProvidence I like to say that I make choices; it's just that whatever choices I made were the only choices I ever had. It's not like determinism means you're not making choices.

[@Alex-Zone]

I'm partial to spells and hexes myself. It's where I first met Hermione.

[@subplantant]

@@Elintasokas Choice is the sensations associated with awareness and judgement

[@dziabarp]

"If you knew that the perpetrator did not have a free will you would no longer be angry at him". But that works across the board. If you know that your wife does not have a free will, you should not be grateful for the fact that she loves you. You should not be grateful for gifts as people had no control over the impulse to give them to you.

[@GruvTraveller01]

For years I have been reading Sam’s books, watching lectures, convinced by his arguments and more often agreeing. Like most I have struggled with his claims on freewill, but this talk cleared it up for me. I don’t think of “freewill” or the arguments for it are contained in Sam’s thesis. I guess again we are in agreement

[@instantjp]

I've been onboard with these ideas for awhile. Misguided or not, I came to the conclusion that the only way forward was to develop a daily meditation practice. I am operating under the assumption that "I" will be presented with better, more flexible "options" and my "option picker" will get better at discriminating between them :D

[@wotmate1440]

That is EXACTLY how I conceptualise it too. Wow. Have found it difficult to put into words though, glad you said it for me!

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads(mother of non dualism) ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@bryandraughn9830]

Hi Sam! Great talk. As usual. The most frustrating thing about helping others to understand something is that you know why they are prematurely rejecting an idea while they are unaware. You know they would see the point if they were just willing to honestly consider it from a slightly different perspective, but they are saying "I refuse to learn about that." All the while convinced that there's nothing there to learn. Having done it, I know what it feels like so I'm extremely critical of my conclusions. To the point where I'm most suspicious of the ones that seem irrefutable. This is the greatest gift I have ever stumbled across and I wish to share it with others, but as you know, it's almost impossible. I can't force anyone to learn something nor would I want to. It's just a shame. Thanks for doing what you do. I personally appreciate it.

[@CalmPug-ez4zx]

Free will is a contradiction in terms just like united nations - j krishnamurti ( either there is will or u r free ) Best book in the world - upanishads(mother of non dualism) ( for motivation to read this , please look at what some famous people around the world said on upanishads)

[@OpenMind3000]

Final Thoughts? :( That´s sad. I love when you talk about free will. I hope you will some day do another video video on this topic :)

[@brken1457]

Hi Simon :)

[@Bostonceltics1369]

That will be determined by your subscription ;)

[@radscorpion8]

There's nothing more to say about it, so there isn't any point asking Sam to basically repeat his position hundreds of additional times. But hopefully if some new evidence comes up, or maybe if there's some new philosophical argument, he'll come back to it

[@usmanshah344]

Become an atheist and be forever confused.

[@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017]

@@usmanshah344 Atheism is definitely confused.

[@Howtobe777]

This video is still very relevant today. Many still don't get how obvious it is that there can't be free will.

[@georgelewis5740]

Many of us 100 percent agree with you. Most people that disagree are holding on to the idea of punishing evil doers and feeling good about that.

[@fabianbravo6008]

i love straw men, and the people that create them and feel high and mighty

[@credman]

@@fabianbravo6008 I've seen the point of view he's describing come up very often in free will debates. "Without free will, you can't blame Hitler for what he did."

[@907FreedomFighter]

Sam, You have helped me so much with my mental health and I’d like to offer you my most genuine thanks. I’ve followed you since ‘06/‘07 ish…but only now in 2022 has my life calmed down enough to do a deep dive into this subject. Your logic and CBT brain hacks have really helped me expand my mind to another level. My sadness is a little better…I’m learning to better handle anxiety and have slowly started to forgive myself and everyone else for everything. (i’m sure cannabis and psychedelics also play a role) It’s ironic that an atheist has led another atheist to feel the “peace” of heart that I always hear Christians talk about. 😂

[@jaed2630]

He is your God now! Good thinking. IF IT WAS YOU THINKING?

[@AMikeStein]

I’ve been listening to Sams podcast for a while now and I’m subscribed to his website and for some reason this one is one of my favorite.

[@sprocket8934]

I'm so glad Sam put this up, but I wish he would have released the whole series for free (it's not that much longer on waking up) but I really want to be able to share this with many people and the fade out ending is brutal

[@borna1231]

You can get a free subscription to both his full podcast episodes and the meditation app by just sending an email saying that you cannot currently afford it. They dont ask any questions and send you a free year subscription, and you can renew it afterwards.

[@meursault3528]

@@borna1231 Yes, but they want to share it with as many people as possible.

[@ottolehto]

Free will is not free

[@matthewhorizon6050]

It's free. Just subscribe. What's the problem?

[@m74d3]

@@matthewhorizon6050 it's not free unless you ask due to financial hardship, and I think most people who aren't willing to pay for it but also aren't truly in financial hardship are equally unwilling to ask for a free membership, because they don't feel good about "lying" and taking advantage of Sam's generosity. That's my situation currently. I could easily afford it... I just don't want to, because it seems a bit steep for a twice a month podcast. But I'm also not going to lie and say I can't afford it just to get a free membership. Seems kind of messed up to me. Sam obviously knows people will do just that and take advantage of him, and he allows it anyway in order to help the truly poor, which is quite generous of him.

[@gatherfeather3122]

I love it when Sam is on his field of expertise. The solo episodes are very valuable content. He has an idea, that's well thought trough and presents it carefully.

[@ca3dp615]

Bottom line: There is "will" but there is nothing "free" about it!

[@anuraganand8649]

Wow , I don't know how you tube recommended me this, but it changed my mind about thinking itself. Something brilliant to listen and to know about. Thanks a lot Sam harris. Big fan.

[@JaketheJust]

“Oh course we have free will, because we have no choice but to have it.” Christopher Hitchens

[@williaminnes1563]

Where and when did he say that? I'd love to see the entire discussion

[@JaketheJust]

@@williaminnes1563 I don’t know when, but I think he said that in a debate with David Wolpe. There is a video called “Hitchslap” where you might find it there too.

[@amyanderson4099]

His humor was never-ending 😅

[@shiskeyoffles]

@@williaminnes1563 kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3jChXqEf8uaZtU Found that bit

[@Marley96]

@@shiskeyoffles kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYHSqoBviNJ7o9k

[@ericmckayrq]

“THOTs ARISE” is my next band’s name... and you can’t judge me for it .. I didn’t choose it

[@zyxwfish]

😂

[@elplagamusick]

🤣🤣🤣

[@chaitanyagaur7928]

@ZK Tay EXACTLY. I will judge a lion differently from a deer.

[@ericmckayrq]

@ZK Tay fair enough. My choice says much about me and may be an indicator of the kind of choices I might make in the future... I now await your your judgement and all those he read my comment from now to the till the end of this KZbin post

[@ericmckayrq]

@@chaitanyagaur7928 good point

[@シュルブッシュッシュ氏]

I wish this whole talk was available to those that lack a subscription. It's too good to be tucked away behind a pay wall.

[@simoontube]

Just because our free will is not absolutely omniscient, that does not mean it is not free will.

[@twokidsmovies]

Thank you for talking about this topic again. It was the topic that brought me into listening to you speak. Amazing!

[@pineapplaplatypotato]

Free will keeps God interested in us

[@twokidsmovies]

@@pineapplaplatypotato huh

[@pineapplaplatypotato]

@@twokidsmovies It’s true. Imagine being God. You’d want some excitement too

[@twokidsmovies]

@@pineapplaplatypotato ohhh I see, tru

[@trybunt]

@@pineapplaplatypotato I thought god is supposed to already know what happens in the future, regardless of whether or not free will exists, so I can't imagine they would be surprised by any actions we are doing.

[@devsubedi]

It makes me happy that I discovered Sam. Listening to Sam has been one of best thing ever happened to me.

[@saifaqeel1432]

In conclusion, Free will is a choice between limited options shadowed by our inherited biases.

[@AshinaBorjigid]

You misunderstood. Free will simply cannot exist.

[@saifaqeel1432]

@@AshinaBorjigid I understood just fine, I’m simply just proposing a new definition for “free will.”

[@manihoffman6995]

The test of picking a movie in your head , just witnessing what was happening was FREAKY

[@Kaddywompous]

“Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.”

[@tbk2010]

Oh, they know what they do, they just can't do anything about it.

[@chrisrus1965]

Why didn't you tell me earlier that I have no free will? If you had told me earlier, I would have made different decisions and taken entirely different paths in life. Oh well at least I know now that I don't have free will. Now, armed with this knowledge, I will be able to really take the bull by the horns and take decisive actions to take control of my life and my environment and my decisions will have great impact on the future.

[@henzlee2137]

Pick a movie any movie

[@simonlennartz1556]

My life sucks so much that I choose to come back here everyday.

[@snaileri]

Ouch. I can relate to this.

[@simonlennartz1556]

@@snaileri I´m not sure if it does help me that I know that determinism is true. It means that I´am aware of the fact, that I can not make any mistakes in the sence that they might have been avoidable. So any "wrong" decision, any "bad behaviour" appears more appealing somehow. Right now I should shut down my computer and try to sleep. But somehow I think "fuck off, I stay awake and binge-watch youtube-videos". My belief in determinism steals my discipline and there is nothing I can do about.

[@Dialogos1989]

I highly doubt these will be his ‘final’ thoughts on free will

[@theippster8891]

lol

[@PittelliLike]

Does he really have a choice?

[@Wingedmagician]

@@PittelliLike he has a choice. He just has no choice what it’s going to be.

[@gigu6931]

Listen second half..

[@nodell8729]

@@WingedmagicianNo, he has neither :)

[@stephenlawrence4821]

Yes, I think it's a crucial point that we do not experience free will. What we experience is selecting from options. The beginning of the illusion is to think that means we can select any one of them in the actual circumstances. But nothing in our experience indicates that.

[@ASimoneau]

Sam's argument for the absence of free will has always been convincing to me, but experientially, the event that demonstrated to me that it's an illusion is that I registered genuine surprise at an event I experienced in a non-lucid dream. Even if I still believed in free will, I don't know how I could argue my way past that.

[@robcarter3341]

I really wish that I had a friend like you that I could hang with. So few people care to look at the data.

[@HomeshighlandPark]

This concept of not having free will is dangerous to the minds of criminals.

[@HomeshighlandPark]

I can choose to practice to concentrate therefore making me more likely to be able to concentrate or decide to be in a place not to be distracted therefore making myself more likely to succeed. Did I choose my inability to not have a photographic memory? Perhaps not, but I can learn that. And that is free will. And to trust that There is a creator that has a reason for our struggles gives us therefore making he reasoning to forgive ourselves of shortcomings through faith.

[@Oversampled]

This was terrifying for me for a year until I realized that yeah, things appear and I don't produce them, I'm not scared so much and it doesn't really change much or matter. I always knew in a back of my head that when I'm doing active thinking I don't generate what's coming, but I'm waiting for things to come, like using my mind as a tool, but that requires me to interpret myself as an agent to which I'm not sure if I want to keep labeling myself as one

[@SantiagoAQ]

The argument reminded me of the Schopenhauer quote: "A man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills."

[@aesirvanir8671]

It would make more sense had he said that man cannot will _what_ he wills.

[@mattheenan1536]

@@aesirvanir8671 It looks like in his native German Schopenhauer uses "was" (English "what"). It appears to be from On the Freedom of Will but I haven't looked it up in that work myself. "Der Mensch kann tun was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Maybe it was translated as "as" because of the commonly used English phrase "doing as one wills/pleases," which essentially means to do what one wills.) But I agree that "will as one wills" is more ambiguous than "will what one wills." The former could mean "will in the manner one wills," or "will at the same time one wills," whereas the latter is more specific to what I think is the intended meaning.

[@radscorpion8]

@@mattheenan1536 borrringggg. why don't you eat a hot dog instead of all this philosophy

[@Elbownian]

Excellent, Sam. Thank you. FYI I've understood what you've been saying this whole time, you've made it exceedingly clear what you've meant. I've shared your frustration at some others failing to, or not being interested to engage with it.

[@tractorpoodle]

So I am a robot who can choose to practice consciousness-improving techniques that improve the quality of my life and the lives of those I care about? I can live with that.

[@ReasonableForseeability]

I watched several KZbin clips on free will. You're the only one who got it right. Besides Schopenhauer (A man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills.) Many get bogged down in determinism.

[@nikolamaretic8988]

Thinking about this one just a little frees you from guilt but too much of it leaves you with a crippling anxiety. Thanks Sam!

[@RemnTheteth]

39:15 "There are people who are all in for rocks. Why aren't you one of these people?" Funniest thing I've heard all week. What a great talk.

[@matthewhorizon6050]

@ZK Tay there's some validity to it

[@MariposaRedimida]

Omg, I came to the comments to write about that exact line. SO FUNNY! I want it on a shirt.

[@RemnTheteth]

@ZK Tay meaningful to those who saw humor in it. That was the only reason I commented on it. Glad you stopped by :).

[@lyonnightroad]

Thank you Sam! This is so obvious to me. It's like someone more articulate than me is saying what I have always known.

[@SillyGoofyjaja]

Also I’d like to add that anyone (like myself) that claims to fully understand this after a few hours of content hasn’t truly given this the time it deserves. I will have to digest for some time to come. I’d like to put time aside each day to gain a better understanding. I feel I can’t just unlearn 33 years of thinking I’m in control in a day. It deserves far more of our energy than that. I also just got done reading The End of Faith. I picked up Letter to a Christian Nation yesterday. Thank you Dr. Harris.

[@SurrealMcCoy]

Zen. Taoism. Advaita. Enjoy the journey. It begins with one step (to paraphrase Lao Tse)

[@Deb.L.]

Around 34: "There is no free will but choices matter, and it isn't a paradox. Your desires, intentions and decisions arise out of the present state of the universe which includes your brain and your soul... along with all their influences. Your mental state is a part of a central framework. Your choices matter, whether or not they are the product of your mind or a soul... because they are the proximate cause of your action." We are a subset of the environment we are subject to, therefore our behaviour, decisions and actions which are birthed are influenced/ socialised by these environmental conditions. Nothing is really, truly random.

[@brookei7707]

I’ve listened to previous lectures on this topic done by you and I really enjoyed them. I am looking forward to this one❤️

[@the_lugoz8313]

"Thoughts are like hiccups. You don't know where it comes from." ~ Alan Watts

[@TeaParty1776]

The thoughts of mystics come from the choice to evade focusing their minds.

[@ReasonableForseeability]

* You don't know where they come from

[@CrannBethadh]

Bender: Do you know what I'm going to do before I do it? God: Yes Bender: Well what if I do something different? God: Then, I don't know that

[@bigdawg9162]

I’m the guy where the ploy “if you cannot afford a subscription we will give you one free, no questions asked” works. Take my money you beautiful bastard

[@frankyang]

There is no free will from the relative perspective, but when enlightenment dawns the distinction and duality between free will and determinism vanish as both experiences and concepts belongs to the mind. "Determinism", when taking to the extreme, you become free again.

[@drdoorzetter]

When I first listened to Sam on this topic 5 years ago it had a profound impact on my perspective I feel that the idea is scary but also has some advantages including learning to not dwell on regrets of the past wandering what if I had acted differently and instead learning from experience and working on yourself to create a better future

[@RaymondHulha]

This is the one for the ages!

[@tinic1]

I have always liked Christopher Hitchens view on this: "Yes I have free will; I have no choice but to have it."

[@alfiecollins5617]

That's really stolen from sartre: 'condemned to be free'

[@alfiecollins5617]

@c h a r l e s Because he didn't reference Sartre, he simply appropriated his phrase without citation.

[@alfiecollins5617]

@@UBEREXCELLENCE It's possible that he came up with that line independently of reading Sartre. However, I think that at the very least, he was inspired by Sartre's words. It's extremely unlikely that someone as well-read as Hitchens (especially in philosophy) would not have come across such a famous line of Sartre's. However, I admit I was being too strong when I used the word 'stolen'.

[@Theroadneverending]

Took me some time to understand this concept but it’s the truest thing he’s ever said

[@KarmaGirlDreams]

Sam Harris at his finest. He gives me hope for humanity.

[@mattgallo9805]

This should’ve been called Free Willy 2

[@77jamess]

Hahah. That’s first class.

[@Rocky_Anunnaki]

Good 1

[@alexshaw7773]

My first film was actually the wizard of Oz. I'm glad Sam did the further follow up :)

[@claudes.whitacre1241]

The transcript of this podcast would make an excellent book.

[@genzcurmudgeon8037]

Yeah dude, it’s called “free will” by Sam Harris. Available on amazon and anywhere you buy books.

[@claudes.whitacre1241]

@@genzcurmudgeon8037 I know. I read it. But this is newer and more comprehensive. Clearer better arguments. Unless the podcast was just him reading Free Will.

[@genzcurmudgeon8037]

@@claudes.whitacre1241 fair enough, it is more concise and clear.

[@BridgesOnBikes]

I feel like the book expands on some aspects that this podcast does not, but the podcast is like a newer edition of the book and ultimately better.

[@LevelofClarity]

This is brilliant. Sam has such a way with words. His ability to utilize words to build, deconstruct, and analyze is freakin' magical.

[@0fuxTaken]

As a neuroscientist with so many years of mindfulness practice under his belt, it makes sense that Sam is playing mostly in those domains, but I don't think the free will conversation warrants any more evidence than physics. You can start from the ground up: knowing the limitations and behaviors of spacetime and quantum fields, we are able to compute the energies and positions of particles at time t+1 from their current values at time t. If you want to go down the quantum route, you wind up with a distribution of possibilities rather than a precise value, but it still follows a logic. From there, if you could accept that premise, it is just a matter of jumping up the layers of emergence, roughly: (0)Physics -> (1)Chemistry -> (2)Biology -> (3)Neurology/Endocrine -> (4)Psychology Keeping in mind that any layer of emergence can be sufficiently described by the layer beneath it, albeit with vastly more complexity (hence the necessity for distinct layers of emergence in the first place). Our thoughts (4) are a product of the patterns of neuron distances and their neurotransmitters (3), biological molecules exchanged by specialized cells (2), highly complex organic molecules undergoing various cycles through hydrogen bonds and the like (1), all of which composed by atoms, thus quarks and fermions exchanging additional bosons, which is ultimately described by physical interactions (0).

[@azaquihelify]

ohhhh jezus, here goes my sanity

[@Alex-Zone]

Quite a slippery slope isn't it

[@dylancoleman1921]

It’s funny that Jesus is basically J Zeus.

[@vladislavkozlov4978]

I think there’s a danger of listening to half the argument and not being walked through all the Implications can be very destabilizing . After I listened to the full episode through the subscriber feed my mind is completely blown . My head hurts and this actually makes sense . I had no choice but to lose my belief of free will .

[@azaquihelify]

@@vladislavkozlov4978 I'm a subscriber , i made the mistake of closing the page half way through........the media player is forcing me to start all over again😢

[@azaquihelify]

@@Alex-Zone i love how sam is obsessed on making this point.....i don't think the world is ready for this, this idea demands the loss of soo much vanity. the masses won't assimilate this

[@MoonChildMedia]

I've been listening to everything I can find with you talking about free will. It is very compelling and difficult for me to wrap my mind around. It makes me feel as though I'm on the precipice of understanding something on a very deep level...but I just can't quite get there.

[@cam553]

Perhaps after learning these concepts you’re struggling with identity, or perhaps on the flip side, you are just starting to accept that you are a product of your genes and environment? Determinism is the great equaliser.

[@dottedrhino]

Sam, thanks for this podcast. I really have to listen to it several times to see the profundity. :)

[@MisterKBM]

From what I can tell, our issue with free will lies more in its definition. The fact of the matter is we make decisions, whether we realize it within our consciousness or not. Free will, in itself, seems to be more of an inherent and preemptive guiding force within ourselves. Almost as if we are programmed to feel as though we're deciding to take any given action, while continually being unable to control what thoughts come into our head beforehand. Each decision, action, or thing we witness drives our future and current thoughts (both conscious and subconscious). This will change what our free will interprets, then processes as a sort of good, better and best action to take next; However seemingly infinite, finite, or insignificant we interpret it to be.

[@dungeon-wn4gw]

Free will is the ability to choose your desire. The problem with this beyond determinism vs randomness (which is valid btw due to law of excluded middle) is that you cannot ever possibly do anything voluntarily either mentally or physically without your desire to do those things. In other words you are incapable of ever choosing or controlling anything without the permission of your desire. You can never step out independently of your own desires.

[@petervitale4431]

Randomness doesnt give you free will, but it does punch a hole in the argument in favor of determinism.

[@beecontent]

Our perceptions, thoughts, emotions, words and actions are the products of our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. We are not free from causality, we are prisoners of causality.

[@tomrhodes1629]

The prisoner is freed when it realizes that is NOT the prisoner but the jailer, and has the key to the jail that he has put himself in. But there's a lot you have to know before this makes perfect sense, which is why I wrote my book. God's prophet has spoken..

[@Schismarch]

This is what I’ve believed since college. What I struggle with is: if we assume this to be true, why should we try to improve ourselves? According to determinism, I will improve myself or not whether I try or not, because all of the minute causes since the beginning of time have led to the next thing I do. There’s a weight of cognitive dissonance there that is hard for me to overcome. In the interim I suppose I’ve gone for some version of Pascal’s wager: I “choose” to continue to try to improve myself because I am afraid of the alternative, that I might actually have free will and that by choosing not to strive to be a better person, I might become a worse person. And that in itself is disturbing to me because I’ve always thought Pascal’s wager was bs. And I get that all of this rationalization occurs only because of the deterministic events that have culminated in my brain in its current state. I’m (deterministically) super interested in your thoughts on that.

[@cabellocorto5586]

There is no "should", I think. There either is or is not. Should is our conception of how things ought to be, which is usually what causes suffering to begin with. Instead of accepting the way things are we yearn for what they think they "should" be. You will do what you will do because you couldn't have done any differently. In life we think there must be a most optimal outcome for everything. There very rarely is any sort of optimal outcome. For example going to the gym seems like the most optimal outcome of any situation because your body becomes more fit and healthier. But if fitness doesn't matter to you at all, then fitness is not an optimal outcome. If you decide to pick up painting, some people would see that as a good undertaking, some would ask why you waste your time on it at all because they don't value art. So you will naturally gravitate towards whatever is 'optimal' for you at the time. The brain is built for survival, it does whatever it thinks is most coherent with that. If that means sitting on the couch and loading up on carbs, it will do that even if that doesn't mesh with what we "should" be doing. If the brain views working out every day to maintain health is the more optimal solution, then it will gravitate towards that. Neuroplasticity exists and the brain is capable of changing its thought patterns, but whether it does or does not ultimately isn't up to "you". So for me, I just tend to lean into whatever my whims are, as long as my whims don't cause harm to other people. I've picked up art recently, on a whim, and am sticking with it, on a whim. I want to improve in it, so I lean into that want. Am I choosing that want? I don't think so. I'm doing it to satisfy a craving in my unconscious mind that is buried under many abstract layers.

[@TimotheeHowland]

Sam Harris answers this in this video, at 35:12

[@Schismarch]

@@mohamedhalim7473 my friend, I feel your struggle. All I can say is that, yes, I do find joy in life. Sometimes. Not all the time. But there are things that give me peace, and things that give me joy. Whether I have free will or not, I try to act like a good person. And I try to be patient and compassionate with myself and others. And I lift weights, which makes me happy. My brother, I wish you peace in your journey through life. Remember that even though it’s difficult and frustrating and crazy, we are here together and just trying to figure things out and do our best.

[@Regan4491]

It’s kind of crazy to me you could even make the claim free will exists when you factor in every psychological, philosophical, scientific reason why we don’t have free will

[@Wingedmagician]

Lol ikr especially with the experiments on the left and right brain. The right brain choosing and the left brain coming up with reasons why it chose AND believing it.

[@TheSteinbitt]

It’s only inevitable after the fact. Prior to choosing, you are free:)

[@MRSoefeldt]

I don't think it's crazy at all. We refer to free will as an illusion, because it *seems* real even after it's revealed that it's not, just like the Müller-Lyer illusion (Q: Which arrow is longer? A: They're of same length as you can clearly see now, yet one still seems longer). We need a reminder that we have no free will. I don't think the biggest issue is that we have to make claims about whether or not there is free will. That's the easy part. How one proceeds (to forget) is the hard part. Meditation is one way of flexing the attention muscle. One point of meditation is to practice mindfulness throughout every day, not to merely be on a session hot streak. Likewise, I suspect the topic of lack of free will often falls prey to being just that, an interesting topic, and is less often practiced throughout every day. *That's* why we need a similar daily practice. I've set an alarm that goes off at 12:00 PM with the message: "All events are predetermined". The next step in the experiment is to remember or remind myself that what's happening now is not my fault, not good or bad, not supposed to be changed, exactly how it's supposed to be, forgiveable etc.. Hopefully that'll help elevate this from merely being cool to talk about to actually being useful.

[@Jack-yq6ui]

GOD GAVE YOU FREE WILL, nah jk there is no god.

[@homewall744]

So who forces your will?

[@kimyunmi452]

You can do what you will. But you can not will what you will.

[@Pradeep_889]

"There is no free will but choices matter." This in itself is a belief that would affect how we behave in the future.

[@Gaztronaut]

If you're freaked out by this, don't worry. At least you're still the witness of what you're not doing :)

[@SamuelJFord]

Sam's argument boils down to - 'you' are consciousness not the ego/self, which is just an experience within consciousness. You - simply consciousness - do not affect your choices, you only witness them. I think this is probably wrong because we know that we are consciousness, and at the very least this knowledge affects behaviour and decisions.

[@DusanPavlicek78]

I really enjoyed this podcast, you explained the subject far better than anyone else I've ever heard talk about it. Thank you :)

[@alexpacific1721]

Well I can't grasp it yet. The urgency keeps passing me by.

[@DusanPavlicek78]

@@alexpacific1721 I had to listen to the beginning of the podcast again just now, the understanding of the concepts is indeed a little elusive. But the most valuable insight for me is to realize that I didn't think about my consciousness deeply enough (ever) and that whether or not the universe is deterministic or not, either way it does not explain why we should have something called "free will". That the term "free will" is just an empty label and that there's nothing in our thinking process that this label could represent. I think that's the main message of this podcast and I can only hope I understood it well :)

[@yannickm1396]

​@@alexpacific1721 It is actually fairly simple. You can choose what you want. But you can't choose what it is that you want. Because if that where the case you would have to be able to think it before you think it. And even then that thought is also not something you choose to think. Things just pop up in to your brain without you having any control over it. So the idea of free will does and can not make any sense.

[@chase_modugno]

If the mind always defaults to its best interpreted logical choice for every single circumstance it's encountered, then every single one of us would constantly be in a state of the best version of ourselves. In other words, whenever we make a wrong choice against our better judgement, then the better and more logical choice was not made.

[@TheMg49]

So far, this is the my favorite exposition of this stuff that I've heard. Thanks.

[@antharian8053]

This your best video ever Sam...and i did not decide to feel that way. Cheers

[@adventureswithjonny87]

I follow your logic and it makes sense to me. The picking a movie exercise really brings it home. You don't pick a movie, it sorta emerges outa nowhere.