Finale vs Dorico-5 takeaways for you..and a clear winner

[@zartmedia-musicpublishing7731]

Concerning the name Dorico, "The name honours the 16th-century Italian music engraver Valerio Dorico (1500 - c. 1565), who printed first editions of sacred music by Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina and Giovanni Animuccia and pioneered the use of a single impression printing process first developed in England and France." [extract from Wikipedia]

[@ReedRobins]

Thanks! I must admit I should have looked around a little ;). Have a great one!!

[@jeffherro1601]

Awesome presentation Reed! I switched from finale to Dorico and I love it!!

[@ReedRobins]

Thanks Jeff!! Great to hear from you. Hope your music (and life) is going great!!

[@jeffherro1601]

@ReedRobins Thanks Reed, Life is great! House paid off a few years ago!!!

[@enriquesanchez2001]

DORICO - The name honors the 16th-century Italian music engraver Valerio Dorico (1500 - c. 1565), who printed first editions of sacred music by Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina and Giovanni Animuccia and pioneered the use of a single impression printing process first developed in England and France.

[@ReedRobins]

That makes a lot of sense, since we're talking about the team that named that other software they worked on after Jean Sibelius. Love the extra detail you've provided! Thanks for watching my friend!

[@enriquesanchez2001]

@@ReedRobins My complete pleasure in sharing this tidbit! ♥

[@flotsamjetsam9610]

As a Finale user since 1988(!), I really appreciate this. Thank you!

[@ReedRobins]

I'm SO glad this was helpful! You got this my friend!

[@spiritualpolitics8205]

Thanks for an excellent description of a bunch of reasons I would prefer Dorico to Finale (as a long-time user of the latter....)!!!

[@spiritualpolitics8205]

p.s. Do you have any feeling for the abilities of MuseScore vs Dorico?

[@douglasromayne328]

Very helpful perspective. I've held off diving in to working in Dorico until I prepare my mind to adapt to its approach so I don't try to force it into doing it the Finale way ( 20+ year user). This was a great step in that direction. Thnx.

[@ReedRobins]

I really glad it was helpful, and I appreciate your being here Douglas!

[@LeeBlaske]

People do things differently, but I've personally found that when making big switches in the past (e.g. Finale to Dorico, Opcode Studio Vision to Logic, etc.) the best way for me is to make a 100% clean break, move to the new software, and just struggle somewhat for the beginning. It's always worked out. Waiting until you're fully up to speed before switching, for me, just prolongs the pain. It's like the difference between ripping off a Bandaid, or pulling it off slowly. In the case of Finale and Dorico, they're different enough that to wrap your mind around one, you've got to unlearn some muscle memory stuff from the other. Maybe there are people who can daily work in both, but that would be yet another skill to master. After totally working in Dorico now for a couple of years, opening Finale and trying to work in it seems REALLY weird, and antique. I was a Finale user from Finale 1.0, so you'd think it would be like remembering how to ride a bike. But, it's not. You have to overwrite stuff in your brain. ;)

[@ReedRobins]

@@LeeBlaske This is kinda how I do it a well. I too went from Studio Vision to another DAW. That was a *rough* one! I also was doing Finale at 1.0, and then switched on a dime to Sibelius. I feel like the effort that updating will take is always a fact of life, and the sooner one confronts it, the better it is! Thanks for being along for the ride...

[@dr.g2628]

Hey Reed, this is Andre' Godsey from VCFA. I just found your channel and of course I subscribed. I am pretty bummed out over the Finale to Dorico change. I will be following your tutorial to get up to speed on Dorico. Thanks.

[@ReedRobins]

Hi Andre'! So happy to have you here!! I think you'll be happy in the end, but I do know there's gonna be a learning curve. Thanks so much for being here!

[@dr.g2628]

@@ReedRobins Hey, Reed. No worries as your tutoring here will help in a big way. Thanks, again!

[@mgbasinski]

Thinks for these thoughts. I've used Finale since version 1 (some 1.x version in 1988 when I got started) and have done a lot of work in it over the years, from complex classical guitar arrangements to many 18-piece big band charts. You make an important point that Finale is first and foremost an engraving or music typography tool; Dorico seems architecturally based on the DAW. I can see that could be useful for many, but like you, if I am starting any composition or arrangement, I start in Logic. I also have a particular gripe with the focus on "intuitiveness". In addition to my life as a musician, I spent 30+ years in software development (so for example I can easily understand why Make Music chose to end of life Finale - no software product / code base can live forever), but I also would stress that there can be a huge difference between making life easy for the beginner (where "ease of use" focuses on intuitiveness) as opposed to making life easy for the expert user - NOT the same thing. My biggest gripe with Dorico at the moment is the incredibly poor process (I can't use the word design here) for changing notated chords (guitar or piano, e.g.) into rhythmic notation ONLY in certain places (as Finale's Staff Styles allows). In my experience as a software product manager, I really dislike the idea that the product forces the user to do things it's way - guaranteed to annoy your customers.

[@ReedRobins]

All very astute points on your part! Thanks for this great comment!

[@SuonoReale]

I used to be able to "compose" in Finale, which is helped by the fact that in finale you can pretty much click and move anything and even input notes without having to enter/exit note entry mode like in MuseScore or Dorico. I have owned Dorico Pro for a year and have yet to really use it. I've been trying to use Chat GPT to give me a bunch of graduated engraving exercises but with limited success. I think Steinberg should definitely look into integrating the "jump box" with AI, so that someday the user can type something like " in current selection make every other note staccato, and make all G notes played sul ponticello."

[@ReedRobins]

This is a great comment!! I agree about the AI part, and how nice would it be if you could just speak it? I think I mostly jumped off of Finale when it was still using the 'note mover' too, and other cumbersome things like that. Many functions were separated. My forays since have been for specific jobs where a lot of the time it was finishing work, or tech support for other users. Sounds like you know how to use Finale. ;) Thanks for chiming in!

[@mjducharme]

@@ReedRobins The reason they haven't integrated AI is that AI tends to have "hallucinations", creating things that do not exist. People have asked AI for the addresses for nearby hospitals and it's created fake addresses and fake hospitals, probably mistaking what it saw in some work of fiction as something real. People have made ChatGPT based things for Dorico (unofficial ones) and they also hallucinate menus that do not exist and never existed and other options. So even though they are theoretically useful, the chances are too high for them to guide you to an option that doesn't actually exist, so they are avoiding implementing such a thing for now.

[@balisaani]

Valerio Dorico (1500-1565) was an Italian music engraver, like Sibelius is the name of a FInnish composer.

[@ReedRobins]

Thanks my friend!

[@peppepop]

Also nice to hear another MOTU user :) I used Performer and Professional Composer in tandem at time.

[@ReedRobins]

Thanks my friend! Wow, Professional Composer, I know a lot of people loved that software!

[@rickhein7548]

As did I! Professional Composure was the bees knees!

[@dorico]

Continuous controller lanes are available in the key editor. Sorry I didn't mention it in the session.

[@ReedRobins]

John Barron, I am honored to have come onto your radar! Great presentations from you and great support from the team in the chats, and I am delighted to see Dorico gaining additional (and well deserved) traction. Regarding the controller lanes, this is indeed FANTASTIC news!! I am ready to make the jump to Dorico in earnest and will be adding to my experiences on the channel in the upcoming weeks. Feel free to drop by anytime my friend!

[@dorico]

@@ReedRobins and thank you for the support!

[@spiritualpolitics8205]

What I have long been frustrated with (as you mention) is Finale's inability to permit easy note entry of ideas as opposed to per-note measure-blocked tightly-rule-controlled UI. I will add that I am amazed Finale doesn't have the most basic AI stuff like stringing together 2 notes with a scale, or permuting a scale up the keyboard in arpeggio, or inverting a fugal theme, or retrograde -- unless there has been some update of which I am unaware. How can any modern composition suite not help the composer automate the most basic note-entry tasks?

[@SteveSensenig]

Finale got lazy and let third party developers do all the heavy lifting by writing plugins for it. Some of the very things you mention were available in plugins, if I remember correctly. But core Finale itself didn’t do a whole lot of innovation or advancement over the last decade or two.

[@spiritualpolitics8205]

@@SteveSensenig Yes that's my sense. As a programmer I can relate to their reticence about refactoring a large base of code, but I really think that should have come with all those years and possible new members. Lack of vision as a company. It was frustrating that the same UX eyesores remained (like the lousy beep on trying to enter too long a duration note in a measure, instead of simply auto-clipping it or auto-tying it like any sane user would want). They remained I think you are right more dedicated to high-end visual layout and musical engraving than dexterous note entry or quick editing.

[@peppepop]

The helicopter view point is important.

[@ReedRobins]

Right? :)

[@BorisBerlin]

Dórico appears to relate to the Dorian scale. Why it was used I don't know, except that it's a "cool" sounding modality to me. You could've asked the developing company at the webinar you mentioned why the chose that name; how come you didn't ?

[@ronlevymusic]

Dorico is named for Valerio Dorico, a 16 century Italian music engraver.

[@ReedRobins]

They had a LOT to deal with without me chiming in on that. I like Dorian mode as much as the next guy...especially if the next guy is McCoy Tyner...

[@ReedRobins]

Thanks, Ron!! Good to know, that makes sense.

[@BrentLeVasseur]

Finale stopped its development and told its subscribers to switch to Doraco. I was a Finale user since 1994.😢

[@ReedRobins]

Hi Brent! That's what got me started making these videos. Thanks so much for watching!

[@allkeyspro6606]

Finale has always been big on hanging all of us loyal paying customers out to dry!

[@Transform108]

I want a notation program. Not playback clogged up with rss hungry players - not crazy scanning of every VST3 files. Open it up and quickly write. Dorico seems so quirky. Sticking with Finale, it is just better for that. Good video though, like the comparisons.

[@ReedRobins]

Thanks for watching! I appreciate the thoughtful comment, and appreciate the predicament you're in. If you've got some time along the way, give some thought to doing those XML backups that I mentioned in an earlier video, just so you're covered in case. Thanks again!!

[@OneFingerSnap]

Dorico is the Portuguese word for the Dorian mode

[@ReedRobins]

Thanks SO much for watching!

[@jasonflett8426]

But the playback it crap

[@andreievkalupniek5717]

Sibelius was good before Avid. Now Dorico and MuseScore are the best, being developed into increasingly better programs.

[@ReedRobins]

I agree about Sibelius. Sibelius had buggy aspects, but the team was truly focused on fixing those and improving it - until Avid. I don't have much experience with MuseScore. I'd love to know any thoughts you had on that software.

[@andreievkalupniek5717]

@@ReedRobins I have some experience with Finale, more experience with Sibelius and Dorico and very little with MuseScore. I love Dorico and I think it is the future (I coupled it with the El Gato StreamDeck and it is super-fast), but I think MuseScore is a very compelling open-source free alternative. These videos are fun to watch and explain it better than I could: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnzbYqqkjaifmassi=dtqvz_JU8lpJCDHn (this is about Sibelius) and this about MuseScore: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5TXZ3-Bl9OYgbMsi=lwHGWhG-ey6hxkME

[@akedahlback8877]

There is a problem with Dorico. A big problem. It sometimes hangs at startup. The problem is not unknown at Steinberg. It appears in forums. "If you find that Dorico hangs on start-up, it's because the audio engine has hung/stalled." "Audio engine: On some systems, the audio engine could crash on start-up due to a problem with detecting certain models of CPU; this has now been fixed." Well - it hasn't. A great program when it works. But sometimes I feel like a beta tester. I tried the free version several years ago, and even the new version now when Finale is unfortunately nearing its end. Same problem. Today a Mac Pro 6 cores, 64 RAM, UAD Twin. I had the same problem with my previous computer. So I intend to stick with Finale for as long as ever. Then we'll see. Steinberg needs to do something about their Audio Engine before Dorico becomes interesting to me.

[@ReedRobins]

Thanks for this comment! I actually ran across this on my main studio machine, but I assumed it was something easy that I was overlooking. I usually use my laptop - my other machine - for notation duties, and it installed fine there. The laptop does however 'complain' about certain libraries not being present. I have not circled back around to the main machine problem yet... I'll check it out in the next few days and report back if I find anything that helps troubleshoot the problem. Thanks again for this input! I really appreciate it!!

[@dhultz]

The name “Dorico” is inspired by the Dorian mode, one of the ancient Greek musical modes. The Dorian mode has a rich history and connection to classical music theory, making it a fitting name for a notation software aimed at composers and music professionals. It reflects a nod to tradition and the structured beauty of music.

[@ReedRobins]

Thanks David!