Finale's Finale: What happens next in music notation?

[@humorguy1]

Great video, thanks especially for mentioning MuseScore. I am a long-time Finale user who was able to do 99% of what I needed in the scaled down "home version" of Finale that originally cost $100. I too am exhausted with learning new software platforms and applications when the old ones fit my needs perfectly. I also appreciate the high level comparison regarding Sibelius, Dorico, etc. You have helped focus my research on where to move next (Dorico or MuseScore for me, I think).

[@ElizabethRoseyomiz]

Thanks so much for this video David. I’m just returning from Finale’s funeral. Now I need to take all my Finale files and export them to XML, PDF and MIdI. Good to learn about open source MuseScore. I’m going to watch your video again. It’s so clear and helpful! Well done you, as always!

[@DougHammer]

I agree wholeheartedly David! I moved from Sibelius (many years) to Dorico (in 2020 - I had time!). Took me awhile to wrap my head around Dorico and make it my own. Now I absolutely love Dorico. The output is so good. Much less tweaking!

[@jamesvandamme7786]

I'm an amateur musician. MuseScore has 10 times the capability I need, it's free, and it runs on Linux. End of story.

[@MichaelDurig1]

Thank you. I started with Encore and migrated to Finale in 1998 during my military service. I just found out about the Finale departure. I have looked at the introductory videos concerning Dorico and it is impressive. I have Muscore on my machine, but haven't been comfortable with it. I am just about to drop the hammer on Dorico. You're video has helped that decision.

[@abz124816]

I use Musescore 4.4, so if you want to be comfortable then star using it. It is in your hands. Plus there are 5,000,000 users that can help you solve any problems. it is absolutely free. Dorico is not cheap and it projects an unfounded British air of superiority. Additionally Finale is and will be just as useful as it is today and for a long time. So why are so many people up i arms???

[@jdsd_]

@@abz124816 "it projects an unfounded British air of superiority" ... what do you mean by that? :D And to answer your question... technology evolves as it always has, and from year to year there are newer, easier, faster and better ways to get things done, and Finale wont have them, cause it wont be updated anymore. Thats why long time Finale users are upset.

[@thegoodgeneral]

This is an excellent video. Finale user since the mid 2000s, and bought Dorico early in its commercial venture. I agree with everything you’re saying, and I echo the endorsement of Tantacrul! RIP Finale.

[@dannyshowalter3663]

I used Finale from the first year it was announced and I had used it up until 2023. In-between I tired Sibelius and found it was no easier to use that Finale. I became proficient in Fanile over the years and I did not want to go through a steep learning curve with Sibelius. When Dorico came out it looked like a plus, but after some time working with it I still found it was not what I was willing to learn. Then I found MuseScore. I have found MuseScore very easy to use learn and get help when I had a question about note entry. The Hand book is very helpful. I have ported over much of my music from Finale via music XML. I have done the same with DP 11. Working within MuseScore has be very easy. I hightly recommend.

[@mmurqus6560]

finale threw us under the bus

[@handyatmusic]

I am a 25-year Finale user for a good deal of arranging and orchestrating, though not as active in that right now. Ignored both Sibelius and Dorico as they came on the scene cause I didn't want to (nor have professional need to) deal with the learning curve. I took a close look at MuseScore around ver. 3.6, and have switched over to MuseScore 4 for most all current notation needs, mostly for teaching. It is very impressive and highly recommended. Reluctantly I took advantage of Dorico's cross grade price, since it seems likely it will be the near-term future of professional engraving, but not relishing the prospect of learning a whole new platform.

[@stephenbashforth8257]

@@handyatmusic learning Dorico to a level where you can efficiently input a wide range of genres is not as difficult as many make out - 3 months may be 6 months if you are composing very avante-gade music with lots of extended techniques and want your sound libraries to reproduce those sounds well. I switched to Dorico from Sib half way through an annual subscription and was completely comfortable to not renew the Sib licence after 6 months. I also use MuseScore Studio - though less frequently than Dorico.

[@XE1GXG]

Same here. i bought the bloody thing and have in installed. Will try and learn it.

[@jhcmusicii6181]

No need to worry too much. I'm brand new to all notation programs and it took about 3 weeks to understand Dorico taking it just in smaller steps. I would suggest starting with a full score but really just one part to get your mind around the flow and the use of articulation mapping, etc. Then I did a sketch score of about 12 lines I'm now working with full scores. Took 3 weeks in total.

[@Ivan_Melon_Lewis]

Well, first of all thanks for your video. It's so motivating to me. I'm a Finale user since mid 2000's using it exclusively for engraving. I can't be agree enough with your perspective, therefore and after watched your vid, I've decided to take the long way and patiently start to learn Dorico while last version (literally) of Finale will remain installed on my Mac. New times, new challenges. All the best! ;)

[@daviddas]

My best advice: do follow the intro tutorials closely. Once you "get" the design of Dorico, it becomes quite a bit easier and flows more. Don't skip steps.

[@Ivan_Melon_Lewis]

@@daviddasNoted! I’ll seriously follow your advice. Thanks!

[@matthiasrother9743]

@@Ivan_Melon_Lewis I never used finale. But I can say, that it is a joy to work with Dorico…

[@RiveraComposer]

Thank you. Sharing with my students.

[@BrandonWalkerMusic]

thank you David for the informative video!

[@danielleohallisey4218]

I’m going to need to make a decision about this. I got started on Finale because of classes I was taking and just kind of stayed to avoid another learning curve. What fascinates me about Dorico is its apparent integration of of sort of DAW environment. I’d love to be able to write in notation software then immediately render audio from the same file. Need to study it though; thanks for the introduction to the topic!

[@daviddas]

You may want to see my video about NotePerformer. It greatly enhances the built-in playback capabilities of Dorico for orchestral scores: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJbdloJjmNpgors

[@jbh002]

I was first introduced to MuseScore when Tantacrul first lambasted it on his KZbin channel. Then, oddly he was brought on to help make improvements to it. When they released MuseScore 3.6.2 after Tantacrul provided them some guidance, I tried notating one of my existing Finale pieces in MuseScore from scratch as an academic exercise. For some things I preferred Finale, for others I preferred MuseScore. With the release of MuseScore Studio 4.x, I would never go back to Finale now because it would take me too much time and fine tuning to get the results I get from MuseScore using mostly the default settings. I'm sad to see Finale go, but it feels like it's been inevitable for awhile now. Needless to say, one academic exercise with MuseScore turned into two and then three. And now, I've already recreated from scratch nearly all my Finale pieces to MuseScore, and am more than satisfied with the results. The learning curve with Finale was a nightmare back in the 1990s for me. I found the learning curve for MuseScore much more accessible.

[@timothywilliams1359]

Exactly my experience as well.

[@joshuapettus6973]

​@@timothywilliams1359ditto for me as well! Though i started poking at musescore when it just switched to version 2. I saw a lot of intersting things for a budding musician, but wasnt ready compared to Finalle. Then Tantacrul came on board and its been a wild 5 years. I finally started using it for real about that same time.

[@jdoucetteguitar]

What great information! Thank you for the time you put into this very tight content, too.

[@chasvox2]

Perfect. I remember meeting you years ago at NAMM before we left CA...impressed with you from the start. Keep up the good work! (I use Dorico and am VERY happy with it.)

[@MarkE-v8o]

Thanks for a really interesting commentary - I really appreciate your time in making this video. Converting all my files from finale to Dorito is really going to take some time. I hope a members group for Finale users can be set up - and maybe the application sustained for more years.

[@judyhoule6853]

This video shows how it can be done in one fell swoop - I will absolutely do this! kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpXTqp5_mb2NeM0

[@RichardCharter]

Thank you David for your insight. As an unwilling ex-Finale user, this has been a hard transition, but I'm grateful to be moving to Dorico. Although my work as a transcriptionist doesn't often require contemporary/aleatoric etc methods of notation, it's been a huge caveat for the software I use for my own composition. I'm going to make the migration to Dorico this month, and I'm feeling at peace about it.

[@Stephen-zx4uf]

My need for notation is minimal but I got on Finale in school 20 years ago and upgraded many times just to keep a reliable tool, just as with ProTools and others.. can be so derailing to get stuck mid project because a subpar tool isn’t enough to cut it! I’m on v25 of Finale and hearing your words with authority, I’m going to put the $150 upgrade cost towards other gear and snagged Musescore. Thank you!

[@smoothallday]

Thanks for this video. A great summary of the situation and succinct critique of Dorico and Musescore. I teach a basic intro to music tech class at a college and I made the choice to go with Musescore. The ROI is unparalleled, the program is very user friendly and more stable than our Finale installs.

[@ThomasVogtFreiburg]

I switched from Sibelius to Dorico some time ago and couldn't be happier! I can only recommend the very informative, numerous video tutorials on Dorico's KZbin channel to everyone... what seems complicated at first becomes simple and intuitive in a very short time. I am convinced that sooner or later Sibelius will suffer the same fate as Finale…Dorico rules!

[@joseluishernandezseptien]

Thanks for sharing! I might try Dorico. Although, I don’t think Sibelius will have the same fate as Finale. It is owned by Avid and Pro Tools is not going away anytime soon. It is the industry standard for recording audio. So the money will still be coming in to the company.

[@ThomasVogtFreiburg]

when I mentioned the fate of Sibelius I was referring to the coding. the original development team is now at Steinberg and busy with Dorico, so i don't think there are any more groundbreaking innovations to come from Sibelius…

[@joseluishernandezseptien]

@@ThomasVogtFreiburg I see. That makes sense

[@jdsd_]

@@ThomasVogtFreiburg I think its actually incredibly beneficial that the original development team of Sibelius is now working on Dorico. A problem all software has as it gets older and older is stuff getting outdated. Often its not possible to change the fundamentals of how the program works (since that would mean reprogramming the whole thing), so with 30 year old software you are often limited in regards of new functions at some point. With Dorico, the former Sibelius team can implement everything they have learned over the last decades programming Sibelius without the limitations of a 30 year old software. Thats pretty insane.

[@jfbmusic]

Thanks for the excellent video, I learned about the sunsetting of Finale right here with you. Early-Mid 90s: Finale 3.5 on Windows, then crossgraded to Mac version 2010-ish: Switched to Sibelius on macOS, enjoyed it for a while…good stuff, and was Thomas Goss' editor on his video series for macProVideo. Last 4 years or so: Happily using Dorico Elements (there's a 50% Labor Day sale so you can buy a license for a lot less) and love its look and feel, and Anthony Hughes' voice and great tutorials. 🙂 And lastly, always playing a part here and there: Logic Pro's Score Editor, a different approach to notation, but one I still enjoy. Thank again, David

[@daviddas]

Thanks for this. Thomas Goss (@orchestrationonline) = legend!

[@guittubed]

Excellent video! Thanks for sharing the info. The comments are also very helpful. Now headed to Dorico after decades of Finale. Thanks again.

[@StanleyGrill]

Thanks from a panicked Finale composer! So far, I uploaded trial versions of Dorico and Sibelius. I imported an orchestral score XML file from Finale. It looked great in Dorico but was a mess in Sibelius. I experimented a bit with note entry in Dorico and it doesn’t seem to compare with Finale’s speedy entry, so it would slow me down. Next step, check out MuseScore. Thanks for that suggestion!

[@daviddas]

It may be that Dorico's MusicXML import is superior to Sibelius's (I haven't checked this out myself). It's also worth noting that the official MuseScore blog has multiple posts explaining that they are going to hit the gas on improving their MusicXML import to help out ex-Finale users. See today's blog from Tantacrul for very relevant information to ex-Finale users.

[@25mileswest86]

@@daviddas I think this is exactly the same sentiment for the Dorico dev team too.! For example, they've already mentioned about getting Finale's 'Speed Entry' method happening very soon... keep your eyes peeled...

[@TownBandBanter-km7uw]

Thanks David! I was in on Beta Testing of Finale during grad school in the 1980’s and have endured the bumpy ride since then. I retired June 2023 and have been cleaning up and engraving the many band, jazz and full orchestra scores I did during my 46 year career in instrumental music ed (middle school-university). Along the way, I had to use Musescore in Audio tech coursework, but not for a while. It wasn’t even close to what I needed then, but I may give it another look considering I am publishing through Hal Lenard’s Arrangeme. In the meantime, I will be entering the world of Dorico and beginning climbing yet another learning curve mountain. You made me feel better about coughing up $ to migrate like a sheep from what has been like a long term annoying relative, Finale to a new one in Dorico. Baaah!!!!😂

[@richardmilitelo1484]

Thank you. I have recently purchased Dorico (I formerly used Finale) and am going through the usual frustrations of learning to input my ideas. It is very time consuming. I've never heard of MuseScore; I may decide on this instead.

[@frankpmarsala7682]

Thanks David! I have been a Sibelius user since it's beginning and wholly agree with you. It was fun watching Tanatacrul's video and yes, he speaks the truth. I still use Sibelius 7 , but have briefly looked at Dorico and am now playing around with Musescore. I agree, minus the bloat, things are getting better :)

[@paulysguitarjournal]

I love MuseScore and have been using it since 2012. It’s done everything I’ve needed and since version 4, it is even better. 😊

[@arataka57]

My problem with it is not to being able to create a little melody via MIDI input but it sure now has way more features. Still not the same caliber as Finale and Sibelius for professional publishing use I think.

[@paulysguitarjournal]

@@arataka57 oh, I can create a melody via midi. I just have to change the type of note from quarter to eighth etc.

[@paulysguitarjournal]

@@arataka57 I can use midi to input notes. You have to manually change the note type. But I use the qwerty keyboard to type notes in (mostly since I play guitar).

[@jimfischer4703]

Thank you for your great perspective. Period

[@realjoeroessler]

I wish Dorico would have a plugin to make it copy the simple entry and speedy entry tools exactly. Then it would be perfect

[@emilyhopebunny]

speedy entry, my beloved 😭 I will miss it

[@jhcmusicii6181]

Really loved the non biased review. I'm a newcomer to notation programs in general and just purchased Dorico and have been comparing it side by side with Musescore 4. Learning both from scratch, with Dorico I've had to watch endless tutorials and do deep manual study and finally got my mind around it. I didn't even need a tutorial for Musescore before I was writing music with it. I believe in the end that Dorico is deeper and can go farther but Musescore is just intuitive. One thing not mentioned is that Dorico is really solid with VST 3 which makes it more of a production environment. Musescore was really shaky and crashed for me with VST3 so you're kind of stuck with the Musesounds for now.

[@DavidMacKenzie-o7y]

Thanks for the info! I have been a Finale user since the 90s and have a vast amount of files. I took advantage of the Dorico cross grade discount, but just don't have the time and stamina to learn a new program right now. By biggest concern is how well these new programs will recognize the fonts that I prefer to use, and the best way to reconfigure my existing work. If opening a Finale xml file requires a lot of editing it may be better to simply start from scratch on smaller projects. The frustration is maddening.

[@raf000l]

Thank you for the affirmation that I am headed in the right direction with Dorico and Muse score.

[@PositivePowerPeter]

We as users need to form a finale support community and pay an ongoing support team. It’s the only way

[@WizardBill]

That's an excellent idea, but I wonder how it could be done.

[@GJLeaver]

Thanks for this very balanced overview , 90 % my own experience but with some insights I did not know .

[@randallmauger5659]

Great overview. I agree with your general comments on each program. Thanks! I believe you will calm many of the masses.

[@MichaelJustGreat]

(NO SHOUTING) VERY INTERESTING, DAVID AND YOUR POINTS OF VIEW ARE FULLY HONEST.

[@corniste]

I’m devastated by the lost of Finale. I’ve been using this program from the 3.2 version. So far, there is not any program where the final layout looks as professional as finale in all the possible details. Sometimes, it took hours, but extremely sophisticated piano composing would look perfect. Just as complete non standard keys. Horn in A flat, later in F# and so. Something very important was always missing; the automatic merging of parts in a score.

[@daviddas]

I really think once you master Sibelius, Dorico, or MuseScore, you'll find that they too are capable of producing "a final layout that looks as professional as Finale" and in some cases better. Take a look at the blogs from both Dorico and MuseScore creators regarding the attention to detail they put into crafting the algorithms that lay out the music. It's fascinating.

[@LeeBlaske]

@@daviddas Totally agree. Dorico looks excellent, with a LOT less effort than you'd need to put into Finale to get the same level of result.

[@timothywilliams1359]

Thank you for the very informative video. New subscriber! At present, I am composing a string quartet using Musescore 4. And for the very first time, I am composing directly into the software, without starting out with pencil and paper. This may not seem revolutionary to younger composers, but for someone who went through music school back in the days of copying scores with a calligraphy pen onto onion skin vellum paper, this is quite revolutionary. Trying to do this in Finale was a nightmare, really impossible for me. It still does not feel "natural" with Musescore, but it is much easier than I expected it would be. I am considering purchasing the Dorico package for Finale users, but I am concerned about Dorico's reputation for charging premium prices for every little upgrade, fix, or plugin. From what I have heard, one never stops paying for Dorico...

[@JuanColomer]

Thank you for your thoughts. As a long time Finale user, I think moving to Dorico is what makes more sense (easier said than done, though). Also, may I ask what kind of monitor do you have in the background? It's huge, looks almost like a TV, may that's why you have in night mode, to avoid eye fatigue? Thanks so much.

[@daviddas]

That is indeed a TV, and I've spoken about it in detail here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIHcnHl7hb6kY5Y

[@JuanColomer]

@@daviddas Great, thanks!

[@zng7568]

Thank you. Very informative. I had my doubts about Dorico, but that was just a feeling. I know Muse Score, and colleagues working with Sibelius. I might give MuseScore a try. Been with Finale since 30+ yrs, after moving from The Copyist. And it's just engraving, the real writing still happens with pen on paper.

[@lauriecooper8194]

Great video, thanks.👍

[@silvermica]

I've used Finale for ten years - and then bought Dorico when Make Music announced the end of Finale. So far, the learning curve for how I use Dorico (mostly lead sheets) hasn't been nearly as steep as it was with Finale. I'll have to make a point of using MuseScore as well.

[@Mscman45-qh7ue]

Thank you so much for your salient comments! When I received Finale's email the other day, I thought it might be a spoof...I will follow up on your suggestions about a legacy computer devoted to just Finale, as well as Dorico and MuseScore.

[@MusicEducationwiththeMan]

I first used Sibelius since about 2000. Starting about 10 years ago, I gradually acquired competence in Finale. I found Finale much harder to learn, but I always thought in the back of my head, that "I had to learn Finale". Now I understand why, while listening to your video, that Finale was harder "for me" to learn. Thank you. Several years ago, I was introduced to Muse Score by my teenage son. I looked at Muse Score, it too of course has a learning curve. I did not know that Muse Score purchased Hal Leonard. I will probably move to Muse Score next year. What do you mean by saying that StaffPad is a "high end option"? Do you mean its cost? Great Informative Video?

[@zartmedia-musicpublishing7731]

Thanks for your excellent views! I just want to point out that when you suggest exporting to XML, PDF and MIDI , I think one should include a graphic format also such as TIF or JPG. If you have special layouts including pictures, coloring and so on... you might be able to edit the exported graphic file in a photo program and still being able to save the result as PDF.

[@judyhoule6853]

Interesting perspectives. I use MuseScore in addition to Finale. MuseScore is very intuitive. My needs are not complex, so I'm not sure I need a complex program to do the work.

[@ogorangeduck]

Nice to hear your thoughts. My own software journey is a bit off the beaten path. I had the briefest of stints with MuseScore back in 2020-2021, then switched to LilyPond sometime in fall 2021(I think it was during my first semester of college). LilyPond is text-based input (no GUI); that scares off a lot of people, but text-based plus native Scheme integration means pretty much every single parameter of a score can be tweaked extremely precisely, if you're handy (someone even managed to recreate George Crumb's circular score entirely in LilyPond). I am not such a power user, although I do enjoy LilyPond even though I'm rather slow at it. I have been intrigued by Dorico for a while at this point but the price has been a barrier (see bit about being a college student). As I write this comment, Dorico is on a half-off sale so I have downloaded the free demo to decide whether I want to pull the trigger.

[@johaquila]

I set mostly Renaissance music, which often needs special features (such as mensur notation and ligatures) that I think are somewhat supported by Finale, but barely if at all supported in MuseScore. LilyPond is perfect for this. I use the GUI editor Frescobaldi to typeset in LilyPond on the left side of the screen and immediately see the results on the right side. (You can also click on a note on the right side to get to the location in the text editor on the left.) LilyPond also generally generates slightly more pleasing scores than MuseScore does, and is easier to tweak to get perfect results. I find LilyPond exceptionally easy to write, especially for voices and instruments that do not produce chords. A typical note is represented as text simply by the name of the note, e.g. _g_. That means it has the same length as the previous note and is no more than a fourth away from the previous note. If it's a fifth or more higher, it is written _g'_ (or more apostrophes for even higher octaves); if it's a fifth or more lower, it is written _g,_ (or more commas if necessary). If the length changes, you write it behind the note in a brief and simple format. E.g. a dotted half note is written like this: _g2._ (2 for half, period for dotted). Note names differ between languages, and you can select your language. E.g. I as a German I write "h" for the note that most English musicians would write "b". This format allows me to type music mostly blind and rather fast, while looking at the original. The main problem with LilyPond is that while it can import from other formats such as MusicXML, it can unfortunately not export to them (except MIDI). This is probably because the format is so rich that it would be hard to cover all corner cases for conversion to standard, less richt formats. I used to hate MuseScore, but it has become a lot more usable recently. It is now a good option for those who do not want to make the higher investment into the superior option of LilyPond + Frescobaldi. I just wish there was more interoperability between these two open source options. No doubt both could profit a lot from that.

[@aricatt]

Thank you!! Very helpful!!

[@alkishadjinicolaou5831]

Hi David. Do you know where I can resort to get help setting up the EastWest Hollywood VSTs in Dorico 5. I mean from the bottom up? I am a computer programmer and musician but I probably don't have that much experience with these libraries or using Expression maps or Channel switching etc. I know the basics though.

[@TheCheeksMiller]

started in Finale while in college. then switched over to Sibelius at version 5, also own Notion 5 but have found that its just as easy after awhile to just compose right in the midi piano roll.

[@MrMayAllDay]

Wonderful info. Thank you!

[@QuantumSynths1]

Love Musescore. I have found it the easiest program to do note entry, by far.

[@tilleulenspiegel4394]

Clear and good video! 👌👍 I have been a Finale user for a long time and the end of it has been sad. I tried Dorico as a test version and the first experiences were also sad. Even the templates that come with the trial version are shifted in the layout and are distorted, there are crashes and hang-ups under Windows 11. And that's already with the templates, not even self-written notes. Sad, sad... What do you think of the Capella music programme? Perhaps this would also be an option?

[@mattahough]

Excellent input. thank you.

[@BeethovenboyProductions]

Ugh, I used Finale for ages and knew it inside and out. Downloaded Dorico when it first came out and you're totally right, there's a steep learning curve. That being said I guess it's time to hunker down and learn the new version of Dorico.

[@BeethovenboyProductions]

btw, I started with something called Studio, then had Overture by Cakewalk (super buggy program), and eventually used Finale around 2004.

[@josecastillo9546]

Thank you so much for this wonderful info. One question regarding Dorico. I used to write in Finale and swirch to Sibelius. Sibelius still; have great deal to do bigger notations or musical notes, and I'm sure Finale not easy in Musescore; I couldn't find a way. Wondering in Dorico software; can you make the score in different size notaions? I'm do this because I have bad eyes and need to enlarge the scores for Piano and vocals. Is this possible in Dorico? Easy way to do it? Thank in advance for the answer. Blessings

[@daviddas]

Yes, Dorico has a very easy way to resize scores and make the notation large. I frequently do this and switch between some of the preset sizes to optimize legibility.

[@josecastillo9546]

Thank you so much for your response.

[@bonuebonue]

In Dorico you can even create several Layouts with the same music material, and each one with different Rastral Sizes, layouting and pagination options, if you need for example a large score for you, and a normal score to handle to another musician, for example. Dorico is very easy, fast and very elegant in its workflow.

[@daviddas]

@@bonuebonue That is a fantastic tip.

[@mr.scottpowell]

Been using Sibelius since the 2000s. The same one, 2.0. It was expensive back then, and upgrades are too. Meanwhile Musescore has been sitting on my pc. Even just the basic inputting of notes seemed rather awkward on Musescore, but there are far more symbols and varying slur shapes on it than what came with the early Sibelius. And the score looks nicer. I'm about ready to try and get more proficient at it, especially with the last couple of updates that came out

[@wvandael]

musescore was first released in 2002, more than ten years prior to Dorico, so it's not the new kid on the block. While it is useful for basic scores, it's feature set is substantially less than Finale, Sibelius or Dorico. It's user interface and quality of the output has improved a lot since Tantacrul joined the company, but it still has a long way to go to be as complete as its competitors.

[@daviddas]

Thanks for the perspective. Also, check out Tantacrul's blog post (posted today, after my video was finished) which lays out some more detail on this topic.

[@ANTULIOMORA]

Musescore is growing quickly…

[@carlosandres7006]

being free to download is its best feature. that alone would justify the learning curve and the shortcomings

[@Rollinglenn]

For me, the most glaring difference between Musescore and Dorico is the sound quality during playback. Hands dow Dorico sounds realistic while Musescore sounds synthetic. When you pay for Dorico you are getting superior orchestral sounds to what Musescore offers..

[@carl_irwin]

@@Rollinglenn Are you using MuseScore 4, with Muse Sounds? The AI driven play from notation engine, proprietary Muse Sounds and now Muse sample sets available from Spitfire for Mac/Win, etc. are flat out eating Dorico's lunch. It's extremely powerful, and even more for those that know how to hack it's capabilities and fine tune the notation to the playback engine.

[@danieltobias9742]

Thank you.

[@WeekdayWeekend]

It's completely worth noting that Windows' backbone is rooted in compatibility, and even if MakeMusic doesn't update Finale to work in later versions of Windows, Windows compatibility mode MIGHT allow Finale to still work.

[@DavidPowellAU]

Yes, I had hoped for that. But my experience with MakeMusic's line was Allegro, a mid-priced cut-down version of Finale that still provided all that I needed and more. They discontinued that product, while retaining their flagship and basic offerings. I was OK for a while, but Allegro's compatibility didn't survive one of the Windows version changes. And I did try all the available strategies that Windows supplied for legacy programs. You're correct that the compatibility mode is worth trying. You're also right to capitalize "MIGHT" 🙂 ! David Das's frozen machine is certainly a rational strategy for Finale users who are happy with their tool. It sounds lke a waste of machinery, but people buy additional computers just to run Hauptwerk or games or because the Apple world offers an easy way for them. Actually, Sibelius came out first on an Acorn computer, if I remember correctly ... people were buying those to run the software!

[@daviddas]

This is a great point and I would guess that due to how Windows does its OS updates, it might be more likely that a Windows machine would last longer (and definitely be more user-upgradeable and user-serviceable) than a Mac.

[@BenjaminStaern]

The Finale Countdown!

[@AlexandreFerreira-lj4dp]

Thanks for sharing your honest point of view. I do appreciate it. I too bought my first FINALE license in 1998. Later on, I switched to Linux, and when my nightmare started... I had to dual boot for many years asking FINALE/MAKE Music to port FINALE to Linux (they did that on Mac why not make it available for Linux??) until I quit and started learning MuseScore and LilyPond/Frescobaldi. If I need to make arrangements, I use MuseScore, and, if I need to typeset music, I do it on Frescobaldi. And I agree with you: I won't switch to Dorico. I am tired of Learning too much simply because a company refused to start fresh (which was exactly what MuseScore did), like MuseScore revamped its code between version 3.6 and 4.0. I have years of scores written with FINALe. I will install Wine/play on Linux and move my stuff to XML as needed just like you said. A hug from Brazil.

[@Milewskige]

UPDATE: Finale authorization will remain available for the foreseeable future: Please note that future OS changes can still impact your ability to use Finale on new devices.

[@5BBassist4Christ]

We need to hit the colleges with this information. When I was in college I had a Finale Class. No, not Music Notation Software Class, Finale Class (actually it was called Music Technology, but it was one day of learning Garage Band and the rest of the class was learning Finale). I'm sure these classes were all over college campuses for aspiring musicians who thought they would be using it every day in their up and coming professional career. Well, you're not going to be using it professionally anymore. So, before colleges keep teaching more and more students that Finale is the industry standard that's going to get them in the door, it won't. Many colleges may switch to Dorico, others may switch to Sibelius, and many students will probably pick up MuseScore. The future is uncertain. Really, the start of the school year when teachers had their lesson plans set on Finale is a cruel time to make this announcement. P.S. I'm an avid MuseScore user, and I absolutely love it. I could work circles around my professors in college who had spent years using Finale professionally. It's interesting seeing it's rise in cultural acceptance. Five years ago people made fun of MuseScore users.

[@adamstillwagon83]

I pick up dorico after finale ended… it felt more natural to me than finale in like 2 weeks 😅 I’d been using Finale for around 3 years at that point. I anticipate that once I get into heavy score layout and revision work, I will start to hit walls, but I am in love with the workflow.

[@douglasbradley7244]

Very informative. Thanks

[@mickey533]

I've used Finale daily since 1988. I have over 20,000 files and I use them in teaching every day. I wonder why or if MakeMusic considered making Finale premium based. I would guess that most of us would albeit reluctantly, pay a monthly fee to continue with Finale. Thanks for the video and your perspective.

[@musiqueacoustique1]

As a long time Finale user I feel tempted to make the switch to Dorico but I'm afraid It won't be long before it starts asking for a subscription fee every month.

[@daviddas]

I don't think Dorico will ever go subscription. (Just my hunch.)

[@lyntedrockley7295]

@@daviddas Musescore won't.

[@rondeangelis7384]

Well I just came across your video not knowing the death of finale. I’m just a drummer who loves to document what I practice. So I was looking at notation software few years ago and I ran across musescore. Been using musescore since the. Many many transcriptions. Only problem I had was their new UI development version4.0. Huge task for sure and to me not ready yet, functionality was still not there from the last version 3.6.1. So i decided why not look into more popular notation software. I decided on Finale,since Sibelius was a per year cost. I became pretty comfy with finale after a few weeks, and I like it a lot. But knowing what’s to come down finale, I will look at musescore latest release and determine if it is at least where 3.6.1 was before the overhaul. Great informative video thank you 👍

[@daviddas]

MuseScore just announced some new drum line features -- you might be interested to check them out.

[@DavidPowellAU]

Yes, I was reading all the comments to see if someone was going to mention MuseScore's big overhaul with version 4. It was a "brave" decision. To me, they're trying to forestall the mistakes of impending bloat that @DavidDas related for Finale and Sibelius. It seems the design foundations in version 3 and earlier weren't going to survive as the program advanced in maturity. I ran MuseScore 4 but quickly joined others, like you, in reverting to 3.6.1 because of features that hadn't yet carried over, or which hadn't had enough testing after the big rewrite. MuseScore 4 seems to be focused on superior output quality over its earlier versions - both printed and audible. I personally just want a convenient music notator that produces functional, readable scores.

[@StephenAndersonMusic]

Thank you for this comprehensive and helpful review. Before switching to Dorico...and I'm still researching...but I'm curious if Dorico has the flexibility to customize the notation like Finale did which is useful for scoring aleatory passages. I'm also curious about Dorico's chord symbol bank. In my experience, my favorite chord symbol bank was the Finale 97 version which had really great looking chord symbols in jazz font. Thanks again.

[@PianoLandscapes4film]

I am personally waiting for a music notation program that will allow me to MIDI import my compositions via piano with note for note transcription where I won't have to quantize. In the age of AI, I imagine that it is only a matter of time. I had Finale years ago (early 2000's) and always had a problem with the program freezing amongst others. I switched to Sibelius and my biggest complaint was having to spend so much time inputing by hand notes that were erroneously transcribed via MIDI. I can transcribe a composition by hand faster than what it would take me to fix these mistakes. Music notation programs should make our lives as composers a lot easier not more complicated.

[@daviddas]

If you mean the ability to simply play a piano piece on a MIDI keyboard and have Dorico intelligently notate it for you (rhythms, hand splits, etc.) Dorico is quite advanced at this and they have specific videos on this capability.

[@its_not_nice]

Great video!

[@mjducharme]

Although I mainly work in Dorico, I have used MuseScore a bit. For MuseScore vs. Dorico, I would say that MuseScore prioritizes ease of use for new users coming from other programs, while Dorico prioritizes efficient operation so that users can be as fast as possible creating and formatting a score. For me, time is money, so efficiency is king in my case. Dorico also has built in DAW functionality that MuseScore likely never will - they made some design decisions where they gave up on making an integrated notation/DAW like Dorico.

[@daviddas]

Good observations. Interesting about MuseScore.

[@dr.a4707]

Hi David - Important information on this major change in the industry. I have slugged it out with Finale for 20 years or more. It works, but it is always far more tedious than necessary. It seems to do everything... but doing simple things quickly is nearly impossible. I will look into Muse Score as my Finale alternative. I have no doubt there are a bazillion jazz performers and contemporary musicians out there who, like me, simply want to produce a lead sheet (ala The Real Book). Small performing groups obviously don't need orchestral scoring for a herd of instruments. Your knowledge of scoring software seems quite broad. Can you recommend a stupid simple product that can create a basic one or two page lead sheet without all the brain strain? Thanks, Dr. A

[@elrabiator]

Dorico has a free version that is sufficient for writing smaller scores and lead sheets.

[@daviddas]

All of these programs can do that. I did a video on this exact topic in Dorico: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3Lbk4F9fcaWsJI

[@dr.a4707]

@@daviddas Thank you, David. I appreciate your recommendation and viewed your video on lead sheet creation. I feel like I just asked Pablo Picaso how to draw a simple black and white picture of Don Quixote. Your mastery of this technology is impressive, but I'm still looking for something stupid simple... think the simplicity of software from the 1980s & 1990s (remember?). I need the "4-function calculator version" of notation software with no additional bells and whistles. With the millions of musicians worldwide who could benefit from such a simple tool, I'm a bit surprised that some enterprising software wizard hasn't seen the opportunities here. Perhaps what I'm asking for is no longer possible, given the current state of software development. I am a retired CEO from the computer industry, so I actually helped contribute to our present Frankenstein-level of technology. Yes, for decades I have successfully produced hundreds of lead sheets on Finale (and even tried the supposedly simpler Notepad & PrintMusic notation software). I have begrudgingly developed considerable skill using Finale --- in my opinion a grossly overly complicated tool. Sadly, the never-ending creeping complexity of technology seems to have long ago forgotten that often simpler truly is better. I'll take my soapbox and go away now. Thanks again, Dr. A

[@chipseiler1766]

8 hours into DORICO and, I'm so confused. Of course, 8 hours into FINALE vs. 2, I was also confused. ...I think I will take a look at MuseScore. I think the Hal Leonard link could prove VERY beneficial. 72 years old and I mostly do brass band scoring 4 or 5 times per year for church (Salvation Army). I just don't know if taking the time to learn DORICO will prove productive for ME, as I will most likely forget how to do things between each time I need to use it. I'm actually using FINALE 27 and MAY consider keeping this MAC alive until I'm not writing anymore. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject.

[@GlynnsMusic]

0:33 There's my 2009 arrangement of Clair de lune again! Or as the great Victor Borge called it, "Clear the Saloon" :)

[@MusicArrangementsByNedKantar]

Thank you for the excellent advice. It sounds like Muse is going to be the easiest and most efficient way to transition into the coming new world of arranging and composing.

[@kristian.kalmanlehto]

I switched to Musescore for 10 years ago after using some years Sibelius, but I never used Finale. Being free software and very user convenient I cannot think I would ever switch back, but of course I might take a look at Dorico.

[@pashamusicnetwork]

I just did the cross grade to Dorcio. So far I do like a lot of the features. It will take time for me to learn, but I do like it better than Sibelius. About ten years ago I got Sibelius, mostly because the college I was teaching had Sibelius since we also taught Pro Tools. I tried to learn it, but I was not fond of it and kept with Fianle for my scores. I first heard about Dorico when it was released and have been curious. So now is my chance to learn it. I am also a Logic Pro user and since Stienberg also owns Cubase, this is a means for me to get Cubase. I've used that before and I am fond of Cubase. I've never really been fond of Avid's products, mostly because they have bad support.

[@mpack65]

This was helpful, thank you. Will Muse Score allow an XML from Finale as well?

[@lyntedrockley7295]

yes

[@XE1GXG]

I bought the Dorico 5 and will try and learn how to use it. As a composer of orchestral and chamber music, I have gotten used to Finale. Sibelius I never cared for all that much, and MuseScore is okay, but....So far, I find Dorico colourful and chipper. I HOPE I can use Dorico...

[@emilyhopebunny]

I've been a Finale user since my parents got me Finale Allegro 2002 for my 16th birthday (and I used notepad for a while before that), so now I find myself a notation software orphan. I briefly considered switching to Dorico a few years ago when I was starting to get into working with vsts in Cubase and wondered if there was any type of integration between the two since they're made by the same company, but scanning the forums at the time, I found that wasn't the case and wasn't likely to happen. But now with the finale of Finale, I did take advantage of the crossgrade discount, so now I have Dorico, I just haven't opened it yet bc I'm nervous 😅

[@daviddas]

Take the time to do the tutorials and you'll get up and running easily. As a Cubase user, it'll probably be familiar to you and the integration will help you in the long run.

[@pteroglosis]

I gonna miss a lot the easy way to transcript, I memorized a lots of shortcuts 😢and I love a lot the use of numbers. I think finale was the most customizable kind of program, even contemporary music it's easy to transcript... 😢I used since 2005 I think...

[@mirokadoic]

I am a long time Finale user Just in one day on Musescore I could do things that takes me a week in Dorico. I think for composers and average user Muse is better option. If you need engraving and publishing than maybe you should use Dorico.

[@denverseifried3378]

Long time Finale user since 1995. I was wondering how many of your own computers can you install Dorinco? I know with Finale it was 2 computers. Great, informative, video!

[@mauromarchioni4748]

3

[@spiritualpolitics8205]

I have never understood why these top suites like Finale didn't include more AI or pattern-generation tools available for repetitive composing tasks. It should be obvious that connecting two notes with a scale, or permuting a chord up the keyboard by the inversion, or retrograde on a theme, should be built in. Does anyone know what software has these sorts of tools?

[@rkb930]

What are your thoughts re Notion by Presonus?

[@TraceyRogers-t8b]

My favorite program is Notion 6. However it seems like it will not be updated. Does anyone know what is to become of it? I have used Sibelius since it came out, but I still like Notion's layout.

[@miloseveggies8064]

Thanks for this. How does everyone enter expressions? I noticed that it's clunky in Dorico (always having to enter a companion dynamic, then hiding the dynamic). Do you simply enter text instead and then copy throughout? Thanks

[@MichaelSidneyTimpson]

I use finale as an active COMPOSITION tool. AND I do a lot of complex aleatoric notation that I make hidden playback for. Which do you recommend.

[@eddygonzalez2328]

I'm a Sibelius user, but I've also noticed MuseScore change and improve quite a bit. I don't like the current icon, but it's come a long way from its 2.1.

[@alvaroclavel4092]

I will wait to migrate. Both Musescore and Dorico have serious improvements to make in aspects related to contemporany notation. Finale, for example, had the staff styles function that was crucial to this. Everything in new programs is very cool, very functional and very good looking, and it might be faster, but the old finale's posibilities were superior for many things that go beyond conventional notation.

[@joshuapettus6973]

1000% agree. Its my only real gripe with either program, but i wouldnt be supprised to see both supporting it over time. They are both brand new (especially musescore 4 being a total rewrite of 3) and are still focusing on their core funcionality. But they will get there.

[@DanielWOstler]

One thing you don't mention is the integration with Cubase. If Steinberg supports and enhances this capability, it is indeed a major feature/advantage.

[@daviddas]

Very good point. They are likely to integrate it with Cubase more and more in the future.

[@arjanpelle]

I've found that Dorico has the better sound librabries and playback, but it's also much less stable at my quite high end laptop compared to Musescore and the late Finale. It can crash when setting up or finetuning instruments.

[@leannaale]

Finale user here. With time I can see myself getting as fast at the manual keyboard entry (vs midi) as I was in finale. However, I am finding the page layout a bit of a pain in Dorico. As intuitive it's supposed to be, I'm feeling failed so will need to do more how to video watching on that end of things. I loved how simple it was in finale to make the entire page smaller to fit the extra stave on there...but I'm also probably trying too hard😂 lots to learn with the shift but Im excited to work in dorico. From the few videos and reviews I've seen, dorico is the program for me.

[@daviddas]

Actually that's pretty easy: go to Layout Options (command-shift-L), then go to Page Setup > Space Size, and adjust the Rastral Size. Once you click Apply, you can instantly see what it does to your size/layout. I very frequently choose different settings depending on my goal (and depending on the number of pages it takes up).

[@leannaale]

​@@daviddas awesome, thanks for the tip!

[@bonuebonue]

@@leannaale In Dorico (which is wonderful and is the future of professional music notation, in my opinion) you can even have different Rastral Sizes for each System Break or Frame Break! (beyond the global setting for the Project, setted in Layout Options/Page Setup): create a System or Frame Break at the desired point, select its signpost, open the properties panel in Engrave mode, and you can set the Rastral Size from that point on for the rest of the flow (or till the next desired Rastral size setting). Incredibly powerful and easy!!!

[@teddavidcompositions3744]

The easiest notation ever was Encore. And it's feature set was reasonably complete. Unfortunately, when GVox bought it, its design went south. The original designer has bought it anew. Many of us are awaiting a new release of it.

[@douglascole5729]

As a 'core functions' user I have no need for new features and other programs. Thank you for suggesting that Finale stay on a dedicated computer - forever. XML is the brilliant crossover software for everyone (all of the companies know it...). And yea, I'll take my time learning the free version of Music Muse. Sheesh 25 years of nonsense IMHO

[@TheOldgeezah]

I used Sibelius for mny years but things chnged aat AVID. Costs went up, updates became rare and buggy. I don't know if things have improved at AVID because I switched to Dorico at the point. The first version of Dorico was grim and I stuck with Sibelius at that point. The later versions of Dorico were wat better. I now use Dorico 5 pro and couldn't be happier.

[@daviddas]

That's pretty much where I'm at too, with the caveat that there are things about the Dorico workflow that I hope they improve over time.

[@GregorPQ]

You could make an external HD/SSD with Finale.

[@daviddas]

Yes, but eventually OS updates will prevent it from working. It'll work fine for a year or two, but beyond that is unpredictable.

[@GregorPQ]

@@daviddas Not if you boot from the external SSD. You can update your internal SSD and if it stll works, your external SSD.