FINALLY Converting my Electrek to Lithium | Part One

Hello! I am the description. I love you! Let's Kiss!
TikTok:
/ declankav
Gaming:
/ @tvsoup
Aging Wheels:
/ @agingwheels
Website:
www.uniquemobi...

[@lolroflpmsl]

This explains why Robert's not been posting much...

[@dunngh]

I never post much

[@Flyinghook]

​@@dunngh😂😂😂😂 I was going to say the same. They must not watch your channel, much. I think we all wish you did, though. I definitely do.

[@lolroflpmsl]

@@dunngh I do follow AgingWheels and UnderDunn quite closely, guess there are some very ambitious projects on the go!

[@StevenRides]

​@@dunnghi watched the mantis powered recliner video and thought it was a deleted video that some random channel had.. never connected the dots

[@roastingpeanuts]

I watch aging wheels every single day

[@milesd.8083]

how kind of you taking those pesky modules off of robert’s hands 😊 eagerly awaiting part 2!

[@ElectrekGarage]

He was very willing to give them to me and I did not break into his garage to steal them. Part 2 will be coming out soon!

[@festusssss]

You're using kilowatts and kilowatt -hours interchangeably. Agh!!

[@ElectrekGarage]

Shhhhhhhh! I know the difference but sometimes I don't talk right!

[@FuncleChuck]

Starting strong with “I HATE YOU AND YOU’RE A LOSER” but I’m here anyway.

[@ElectrekGarage]

I mean it in the most loving way possible ❤

[@FFcossag]

There's a BIG, DANGEROUS OVERSIGHT in your battery design! Your BMS CANNOT PROTECT YOUR BATTERY AS IT IS BUILT! When paralleling lithium battery strings (i.e, modules that contain more than one cell in series), you must use one contactor per string. In your case, that means four contactors. As your battery is built now, if you suffer a single cell failure in any of the four parallel strings, the remaining three can dump their entire energy content into that failed string, and the BMS CANNOT STOP THIS! The result is at best a ruined battery string and at worst an uncontrolled thermal runaway. This is an especially important issue when using slightly dodgy, mismatched batteries like you are. This happens if one or more cells fail short or low-resistance. If that happens, you essentially end up with three 20-cell batteries in parallel with a 19-cell battery. The 20-cell batteries have a higher voltage, so current will flow into the failed battery and get turned into heat. In a worst-case scenario, you're looking at almost your entire battery capacity being turned into heat. You've done the right thing by using four separate slave units to monitor the four strings, all that's missing is the four contactors to enable your BMS to actually separate the strings in case of a failure. You can send me an email at [e-mail] if you want a more thorough explanation. Please don't burn your Electrek down.

[@ElectrekGarage]

This makes sense and I will look into it! Thanks for the advice!

[@FFcossag]

@@ElectrekGarage You're welcome. If you get the chance, brush it past Robert, too. He's made the same mistake and I've tried to tell him about it, but I fear that my commets just get buried due to the sheer amount of traffic on his videos.

[@drumbrakes]

"As your battery is built now, if you suffer a single cell failure in any of the four parallel strings, the remaining three can dump their entire energy content into that failed string" I'm intrigued by this, but not sure If I understand your point fully: If a single cells fail was to fail as a short in a 6P6S pack, then that would always short out the 5 other cells in parallel with it. No arrangement of Contactors or BMS could stop that, because it's internal to the module. At best, the BMS will flash a light at you, and you can pull-over and get out. On the other hand having a 19S chain paralleled with a 20S chain would result in 3.8v for Li-Ion (or 3.37v for LiFePo4) being applied to each of the cells in the 19S chain - which would be acceptable if you were charging them. A contactor per string could prevent that by isolating the problem string.

[@drumbrakes]

@@FFcossag Robert's got a weird (to me) setup with the BMS. Equivalent bank of cells in the separate chains are linked to the same input on the BMS, effectively making all those cells parallel, but only linked by thin BMS wires. The boards are made by EVWest for just that purpose and have tiny non-replaceable fuses, so somebody who should know their stuff has decided it's a good idea. Still makes me shudder slightly though. If one of those trace fuses does blow, would the BMS even notice?

[@FFcossag]

​@@drumbrakes "If a single cells fail was to fail as a short in a 6P6S pack, then that would always short out the 5 other cells in parallel with it. No arrangement of Contactors or BMS could stop that, because it's internal to the module." Indeed, and that's why you see arrangements like Tesla's individual cell fuses. Hard-paralleling cells is not ideal, but it's possible to do safely if you know the parameters of your batteries well and engineer accordingly. The problem arises when you hard-parallel strings of cells. At high SOC, a single failed-short cell will cause an uncontrollable overvoltage condition on the remaining cells in the string, as well as uncontrollable power dissipation in the failed cell. This can cause unpredictable failure modes such as cells adjecent to the failed cell overheating and worsening the overvoltage condition, posing a very real risk of a thermal runaway.

[@O-RoD]

I don't like you either!! Subscribed! 😂

[@ElectrekGarage]

We are enemies >:(

[@PaulDriverPlus]

Screw you, I subscribed 😂

[@ElectrekGarage]

I meant it in the most loving way possible :)

[@AndrewMackoul]

Awesome video. I was not expecting the colab with Rob! I'm also surprised how 'simple' it all is given the available off the shelf gear. Is the final battery pack voltage going to be similar to what it was stock with the lead acid batteries, or are going to have to modify the electrical in the car?

[@ElectrekGarage]

Thank you! The voltage will of this new pack will be 108 volts while the stock battery was 96, however I won't have to modify anything because all of the stock parts can handle up to 120 volts!

[@yodasbff3395]

Good video, thanks for sharing 👍. Also, Robert and Aging Wheels is an awesome channel, I never miss any of his videos.

[@ElectrekGarage]

Thanks for your support! Robert is a cool guy who I definitely didn't steal batteries from.

[@BrandEver117]

"These are my rubber safety gloves, which I will wear because safety is super important" *doesn't wear the gloves for the rest of the video lol

[@ElectrekGarage]

Do as I say, not as I do!

[@jasons4622]

I had to pass on an electrek a few years ago, so bummed. I wanted to restomod it so bad. Guess I'll live vicariously through you.

[@ElectrekGarage]

Oh really? Do you know which one you passed on? Color, location?

[@jasons4622]

@@ElectrekGarage blue and white in Wisconsin, easily 3 yrs ago. I was in the process of getting my house and just couldn't do it.

[@ElectrekGarage]

​@jasons4622 would you do me a huge favor and go to uniquemobility.org under the "registry" tab and see if the car you were going to buy is listed there? I like to keep track of all the electreks in existence and the car you're describe may be one I don't know of!

[@jasons4622]

Not on the registry.

[@ElectrekGarage]

@@jasons4622 I can't believe I missed one! Do you happen to have any photos of it???

[@hellcat1988]

You say the audio would get worse, but I'd say loosing that high pitched whine from those clip on mics was a drastic improvement.

[@1mandanceparty]

You like the software because it’s basically Cisco command line. All the commands are the same…enable = elevated privilege Show (?) = show status of (?) Then you make a charge, and then write to it. Yeah…it’s Cisco. Congrats on your first step towards a CCNA!

[@dakotaedmonds6612]

Won't the lack of tray make any possible battery maintanence super annoying?

[@ElectrekGarage]

Very annoying, yes.

[@jochenstacker7448]

Watched 5 minutes, aaaand subscribed!

[@ElectrekGarage]

Appreciate the support!!!! ❤

[@tiredplumber]

Cool. Great content. Could make some smart ass comment about Declan being Under Age Wheels but I won't.

[@ElectrekGarage]

New channel name?

[@stazeII]

Now if only you’d made Robert actually post a video as part of your random…

[@SimonTekConley]

I miss being young and caring about all the details. But I just think of all the actual fun things I could be doing. Which is why age discrimination is probably accurate. I've learned how much I care to go over the deepend on tech has gone down as I've gotten older.

[@Henrix1998]

Im very glad this channel got recommended to me

[@noname-eu7mi]

I think the description is hitting on me!!!!

[@ElectrekGarage]

;)

[@jumar360]

I think the battery pack would fit in the car with the tray. I could see the suspension of the car sink when you started to put the battery pack and that's why it didn't fit. You'll either need to lower the batteries as you slide them in the car or jack the car up a little so it doesn't sink.

[@ElectrekGarage]

I also saw that as a potential issue and jacked the car up (I did so off camera because my hopes weren't high) regardless of the suspension, the batteries sadly just did not fit with the tray (the tray increases the thickness about 1cm)

[@greggv8]

@@ElectrekGarage cut the bottom out of the tray and use resin to replace it with two layers of carbon fiber. Lay one with the weave square to the tray and one at a 45 degree angle. To get a smooth surface, obtain a length of pre made formica kitchen countertop and wax it several times with TR-104 Hi-Temp Mold Release wax. Use that to lay up the sheets and it would make it easy to vacuum bag. Would be useful for making your own carbon fiber and fiberglass panels to the sizes you need rather than buying pre-made panels that are overly large and need cut down instead of just trimmed a bit. Or you could make a tray out of 1/8" aluminum and line it with 1/8" thick HDPE for insulation. Or make an all new fiberglass tray with ribs built in to snugly secure each module. So many possibilities to make a safe and secure battery rather than laying a bunch of modules loose in a fiberglass trough.

[@pp3v42_g3h]

Good video, but your audio has some really bad high pitch humm, had to switch to pc and adjust the EQ. Im'm not sure what is the source, but a lot of clips have it even with the lav mic and can't watch it with headphones.

[@ElectrekGarage]

I am aware of the issue, I attempted to fix it with parametric equalizer to varying results. Unfortunately it is an issue in the receiver which means I need to replace my whole audio set up and I don't have the money for that right now! I'll try to fix it more in the next video!

[@qdood]

I was gonna watch this, but you hate me and I'm a loser 😢

[@ElectrekGarage]

You are the one and only viewer who I love

[@norgtube]

Do you not have to worry about equal wire length when hooking up a bms?

[@ElectrekGarage]

Nope! They're only reading voltage, no need to worry about the tiny amount of resistance from the wire lengths

[@AronGreen]

It looked like when you started sliding it in, your suspension kicked in, and caused things to not be straight lined up anymore.. It's possible it may still fit with the tray, but you might need to jack up the car and put jack stands under it so the suspension doesn't lower the car while putting in the battery.

[@ElectrekGarage]

I tried this off camera and sadly it still didn't fit :(

[@Khitiara_]

27:50 i think robert had the exact same issue on his recent lawnmower lithium swap video

[@ElectrekGarage]

He did! They really should make it more obvious!

[@Khitiara_]

@@ElectrekGarage yeah they really should!

[@strawbemily3182]

i LOVE the progress flag shirt!!!! :)

[@ElectrekGarage]

Thank youuuu! 💜💜💜

[@QALibrary]

Robet sent me!

[@dunngh]

Who's that?

[@ElectrekGarage]

Idk who that is

[@LongPeter]

27:53 why couldn't the stupid thing just tell you it's case isn't grounded? It has a computer in it, right?

[@ElectrekGarage]

The lack of ground also meant that it had no current, therefore the computer couldn't tell me. It was a dumb mistake on my part!

[@LongPeter]

@@ElectrekGarage Ah, I assumed there was a separate ground wire, not just case grounding. I think Robert might have had a very similar issue with enlithiuming his lawn mower. Seems very familiar…

[@frejaresund3770]

If you top balance your LiPo batteries, you shouldn't do it under 3,4 Volts, because of the non linear charge curve. Under 3,3 Volts it's almost flat till it's nearly empty. Individual cell characteristics will cause more harm than good at "low" level balancing. PS I hate me to.

[@robert_gasser]

This deserved a like and a comment

[@ElectrekGarage]

Appreciate it so much ❤

[@carolinebray82]

Loved seeing your EV conversion at the electrify expo !!

[@Junk_and_disorderly]

If you made a shirt that said “screw you” I believe you could move some merch 😂

[@Rektumresizer]

Please stop looking at the view finder

[@ElectrekGarage]

No.

[@Rektumresizer]

@@ElectrekGarage cmon man, i asked nicely.

[@strawbemily3182]

you should put a modern speed control and motor so it can take the higher power and has nice features like regen braking and stuff

[@ElectrekGarage]

The electrek already has regen! Plus I like the stupidity of the stock motor and controller

[@strawbemily3182]

@@ElectrekGarage oh wow i didnt expect regen. also i can vibe with keeping it bc you like the stupidity, sometimes stupid stuff is more interesting

[@ElectrekGarage]

@@strawbemily3182 like me fr

[@aidenpommee766]

@@ElectrekGaragemanual electric supremacy even tho it can’t shift on its life

[@XxShantilisxX]

Can't help but notice no gloves 🧤 on the second set of battery installation 😅

[@isaaccan3155]

Is there a weight savings for your whole car, over using lead acid?

[@ElectrekGarage]

About 200 pounds lighter!

[@FrankGraffagnino]

great job. we are also loving our thunderstruck setup. and you're right... their customer support has been great. looking forward to the next episode!

[@DarronBirgenheier]

Just this morning, I was rewatching Robert's video about the Electrek, and commented that it needed a Tesla motor / battery swap, to make it into a super weird sleeper. Then I discovered your channel- subscribed! (Oh, and this upgrade is PLENTY good!)

[@ElectrekGarage]

Thanks so much for the support!

[@intrepidzephyr]

Looks like the suspension 35:20 sagged and that’s why it wouldn’t slide in brooo

[@ElectrekGarage]

I addressed this in another comment but off camera I did jack up the car so that the suspension wouldn't compress and sadly the pack still wouldn't fit :(

[@negil]

This was awesome! I didn't feel like the module control overview needed a warning ahead of it, it was super interesting and answered questions I'd had about how it worked.

[@ElectrekGarage]

Thanks for the support! I'm glad you found the nerdy parts interesting! Those are my favorite parts to film!

[@derrickbryant9505]

Ahhh you are so cute!

[@user-ih7gc7dt9l]

New subscriber!

[@ElectrekGarage]

Super appreciate the support!!!

[@drumbrakes]

You could have used the 4 6P5S units with 16 of the 6P6S to make a well structured pack with 4 chains of 6p29s. Just 3v lower and no need to steal/borrow more 6P6S modules from Robert.

[@phoenixs3]

i have used orion a lot - why didnt it work for this project out of interest?

[@radiosnmore]

finaly

[@EyesOfTheInternet]

Anyone who has seen the Red Green Show knows who this guy reminds me of.

[@ericklein5097]

$1200 for a Model S module? They're $700-$800 all day on eBay

[@ericklein5097]

ohh well seeing how cheap you got that Coda pack.....32kwh for $900???? WTF??? That is an energy storage wet dream. Thats like $28/kwh....holy shit

[@ElectrekGarage]

I'm using the price from my part distributor Evolve Electrics. You are correct that they can be found cheaper from independent sellers!

[@seymoarsalvage]

"And everybody in-between" Sub earned.

[@ElectrekGarage]

Gotta shout out my guys, gals, and they/them pals 💪

[@Karjis]

Mixing kW and kWh in speaking about capacities really hurts my ears as electrical engineer. That is a rookie mistake for car salesman who does not know anything about EV’s or batteries but unacceptable for any engineer.

[@ElectrekGarage]

I know the difference I just get mixed up when I'm on camera! I too am an electrical engineer!

[@Karjis]

@@ElectrekGarage great video anyway, I think it's normal to mix up words but fix the next ones on edit with some blinking "hour" on the screen after saying just kW :P

[@DaveC2729]

I know what wiring in series is 'cause as a child I once put a bunch of 9v batteries--the kind that goes in a smoke detector, not the wrist-sized flashlight batteries--together positive to negative, then connected a wire to the free ends. I put one wire on the top of my head and the other to the roof of my mouth just to see what happened, saw a bright flash of light like on Men in Black, and became a devoted Democrat until I recovered about 15 years later. Also, can your thermistors double as thermocouples? I wanna play with thermoelectric stuff someday.

[@chkndnts]

Some constructive criticism, your delivery needs a lot of work. Also the awkward lines like "thats rude" and "i hate you"... Interesting project but this video is hard to watch

[@friedtomatoes4946]

Swastika battery

[@nudemanonbike]

Putty's not *just* a command line - it's a full SSH secure shell access tool! I use it to communicate with my Amazon EC2 servers for websites I host - It's cool that they're recommending it for talking to the battery module! What's super cool about that is, in theory, since it does appear to be a full shell, you could script commands and shortcuts to make the software work better. Or even use it to make a custom HUD in the actual car, by parsing the output and sending it to a gauge or whatever