Finding a Universal Head Drive Gear for my Kearney & Trecker 3H Horizontal Milling Machine!

[@charlesk5519]

Awesome Keith! I have a 2H, and was specifically looking for the universal head when I ran across a government auction that had what appeared to be a 2H with the universal head. There wasn't much info available through the auction company, and it was located 500 miles away! But I took a long-shot and won the bid at less than just the head was worth. I was thrilled! Then I arrived to pick it up, and discovered the mill was a 2HL (little smaller machine than the 2H). Felt pretty foolish! Took it home, and powered the mill up and checked everything out...and after a cleaning and repaint, and a few minor repairs, it turned out to be very a serviceable mill! Ended up making room for it in my shop, and I just leave the universal head mounted on it as a dedicated machine, and keep the 2H for a dedicated Horizontal! Best of both worlds!!! No worries or trouble with parking attachment! Congratulations on your addition...you will love it!

[@bcbloc02]

Amazing what is still floating around out there if you can find it!

[@silasmarner7586]

It's suuper cool that you have a 100,000 odd extra eyes and ears out there snooping around. What an amazing find.

[@SteveSummers]

That is probably the best general tool room head that K&T made. Congratulations on getting it going

[@hilltopmachineworks2131]

Yeah that thing is sweet. K&T thought of everything.

[@morelenmir]

I _really_ look forward to you pulling this thing apart Keith--it must be fascinating to see all the mechanisms and cogs on the inside!!!

[@chuckinwyoming8526]

Keith, That is the hard way to mount the universal head...and nearly impossible to set the drive gear clearance. The head splits into 2 parts, the drive and the head. A spline shaft couples the two. First mount the drive section by it's self by moving the clamps out and placing it just above the spindle drive then drop it down close and loosely tighten the clamp bolts then set the gear tooth clearance. This is very important. With the spindle in neutral work the spline to feel the backlash and turn the spindle. Once the backlash is correct tighten the clamp bolts. Then with one over arm way out, line the head onto the over arm then slide in to engage the spline and finally the other over arm. This way you don't need a crane to lift in place just a sheet of plywood to protect the table. As you show in the video the head can move out away from the column. I have the same universal head on my 1942 2HL that I got for scrap in 1973 when I was in high school. To get the mill running again I made 3 gears and a shiftier fork that had been robbed from the spindle drive and fixed a bunch of other problems. Have run the mill and universal head for many many hours, put head on/off many times.

[@howardhiggins9641]

Your Model-H was already a wonderful machine. The Universal Head brings it into a whole new realm. Amazing.

[@tomscott4723]

Great seeing the old machines being taken such good care of and preserved, Thanks You!

[@paulterhaar4218]

Always fun to see a old machine come back together as it was in the past. Nice Keith.

[@ericsandberg3167]

I remember Adam over at Abom79 putting a parking attachment on his KT....not sure if he made it from scratch or he lucked out and found one that just needed to be installed....would be a neat project to build one.

[@chucklocke6099]

Please show us when you tear it down and clean it. I enjoy your videos.

[@RobertFay]

*- WONDERFUL FIND, Keith.* *- Good For You; AND Good For Your Friend Who Hunted It Down.* *- Why do you not use Scotch Bright Pads to polish up and oil everything?* *- Am I wrong, is it not an easy thing to do and not overly time consuming?* *- Spiffy shop discipline seems to match up with businesses that thrive.* *- Modeling that could only help your viewers's own striving to succeed.* *- Painting everything up to "new" could be easy, too, and not all that much of a chore how it is done.*

[@walterplummer3808]

Congratulations on locating a gear. Restoring the head would be a great video series. Steve just had to degrease his mill.

[@chrisjohnson4666]

I bet that fellow in Milwaukee has prints for a parking attachment would be a great winter project to build one...

[@bradthayer6782]

And right next to that gear was the ark of the covenant and the one true cross. What a find!

[@DavidHerscher]

You have the most beautiful machines! They, quite literally, don't make em like they used to...

[@criggie]

I remember Adam made a parking attachment for his mill - maybe he has some plans or suggestions ? He borrowed original parts to measure, so its a good size.

[@StreuB1]

Wrong size machine. The parking attachment is different.

[@gutsngorrrr]

Very nice little attachment. Would be interesting to see the strip down and clean-up of the head.

[@ramsay19481]

You are fortunate.. I had to machine the drive gear and spacer disc for my 2h plain with the same type of head... I watched you install the unit and I made the same mistake the first time I installed mine....The spacer discs are machined to the pitch line and roll with each other to maintain proper gear tooth clearance as there is no positive way to dowel the unit in place... I think you will find that the cutter head takes oil and the drive bracket takes #1 Sovarex grease and that new units were once shipped with two grease guns for the purpose of lubrication, as per 1942 sales brochure.. You will no doubt find grease everywhere upon disassembly.. My unit was made ww2 and had grease much like Johnson's paste wax in the cutter head.. Cheers from Louisiana ; Mike

[@Ddabig40mac]

Congratulations finding that unicorn!

[@Adamm601]

Thanks Keith Always wathing your channel Adam from 🇵🇱👍👍👍👍👍👐

[@rexmyers991]

That is SOME attachment! I see why you are so happy to finally have the missing gear.

[@mdouglaswray]

Great work scoring that u-head! You've got an amazing selection of machines!

[@toolbox-gua]

So we are going to be turning heads for a new neat work at your shop.

[@ypaulbrown]

Thanks Keith for showing how the head works, Cheers form Orlando , Paul

[@fishermanyt8187]

So wish we had access to even half of those machines in Australia, I suppose the tyranny of distance is our biggest problem, that and less than a 100th the population. Just beautiful machinery Keith.

[@thunderstruck1078]

Cleaning the head would be an awesome video.

[@devster52]

I wondered if you would mention the parking attachment. In the first shop I worked in during the mid 70s we had two K&T mills one with the universal head and parking attachment and one without. We used the head for several production jobs and the parking attachment worked great for getting the head on and off and allowing the head to be stored on the machine when not in use. I used a number of K&Ts over the years but never encountered another one that was equipped like that. I believe it also had a drive mechanism for a rotary table but I never saw that in use.

[@tedmiles2110]

I just watched this video again; you might want to send the wrong gear back to the K&T veteran in Milwaukee. He seems to be the place to go for K&T parts and information. Also some paint might cover the multi-color paints covering the mill and its optional parts. I am looking forward to seeing you run the vertical head!

[@emilgabor88]

Now that is a nice universal head. Now you have a nice mill

[@philipquinlan1045]

Very impressive. Thanks for sharing. Keith. Love to see it cutting chips soon.

[@johngermain3535]

Nice glad to see it working for you.

[@clayz1]

That is a good outcome. I didn’t know what you would end up doing, but I was hoping it would not be modifying the first (wrong) gear. Of course it’s your shop.

[@KG-yn9qi]

I fore see a tear down and cleaning/ restoring project on that head in the future!

[@ypop417]

Keith Nice Find. Like others have said You could make your own parking attachment. Adam Both did but with you finding that gear You may get lucky again!

[@Jameson4327]

Another project to keep you busy. Looking forward to seeing what you are able to make with this.

[@paulmace7910]

That setup makes your horizontal a real sweet machine. You will have fun using it.

[@joeromanak8797]

So glad you found what you need. All those articulations make this ideal for the oddest of odd jobs. Since odd jobs seem to seek you out, you can say hold my way-oil and watch this. Can’t wait to see it in action. 😎👍👀

[@carlwhite8225]

Very nice option and great find.

[@donmittlestaedt1117]

Thanks for the follow-up. Good video.

[@Dean5073]

Awesome video love seeing old machines come alive and loved

[@jimmiller2529]

Fantastic video. It brought back fond memories of when I was employed at Eaton. I operated a yoke line consisting of 4 horizontal mills similar to this, a 4 spindle drill press, a single spindle drill press and a push broach producing shift yokes for Road ranger transmissions.

[@ron827]

While apart, it might be a good time to add some matching paint.

[@glennstasse5698]

Interesting tour of that attachment. Thanks for taking the time to show it.

[@FinnoUgricMachining]

Keith, You are sio right about those "grease" fittings there. I think those were originally round but then someone decided to put the grease gun compatible nibbles there in order to be able to lubricate it with the grease gun. Quite often the lubrication of those is gravity assisted. I mean that the oil is running down to places where it is needed. If someone has been vaccinating this with grease, those oil paths have been blocked. You can squirt oil into there and it will never reach the place where it is needed. Taking it apart and removing the grease is the only parctical way to get it lubricating itself correctly. I had this same grease/oil problem with my Schaublin SV-51. That universal head is really practical. You can even do light horizontal milling with it as well. See if it has some sort of an indexing system in order to get it easily and accurately in common angles. My Schaublin has the 15 degree indexing system for both nodding and tilting. If You can set the angles easily then a whole new can of positive worms opens up.

[@chuckinwyoming8526]

I have been running the exact same K&T head on my 2HL mill for over 40 years....those ARE GREASE FITTINGS! The universal head does not run with oil.

[@FinnoUgricMachining]

@@chuckinwyoming8526 Aha. Sorry about me giving this misinformation. Actually I don't know anything about that particular milling machine Yet alone the universal head for it. Usually machines of that age are to be lubricated with oil. I quess that was also the reason why Keith was wondering about this issue. Nevertheless, it is not a bad idea to take the thing apart and clean it up. When doing that one can verify what should the slippery stuff to be used with it be.

[@chuckinwyoming8526]

@@FinnoUgricMachining Some of the confusion may be from Bridgeport and other milling machines using commonly used grease fittings for OIL. By all means clean out the old grease. The universal head is easy to disassemble and it may be full of 60 year old crud. Grease has the nasty property of trapping and forcing dirt and chips into the gears.

[@thomasnewton9818]

Wow! That is an amazing machine. Seems like it has much more capability than a knee mill.

[@tomeyssen9674]

Really glad you got that one....👍

[@scottearnst8152]

What a score galor! Congratulations

[@MikeBaxterABC]

Great episode!! .. I'd LOVE to have that machine!!! ... so awesome! :)

[@mabmachine]

Good score on the drive gear. Lubrication depends on the specific model of the head as K&T had numerous heads. I believe this one called for Mobil Gargoyle #1 grease in the drive gear bracket and oil in the head.

[@yambo59]

So the order is placed - one parking attachment please-! lol Gotta love the machinist community they really help each other out.

[@PatFarrellKTM]

Neat video. I really want to watch some spiral gears being cut. Probably should paint it gray to match the main machine while you have it taken apart.

[@kimber1958]

I’m VERY HAPPY FOR YOU,finding that gear is an amazing,,,,It’s an amazing feet . Sometimes things just work out once again very happy for you

[@maggs131]

Amazing feet 👣🤨

[@jerrysilcox6937]

Hi Keith, back in April 2016 Adam booth made a parking attachment for his K&T milling machine. Maybe that is a project you would want to undertake. There is a playlist on his channel that shows how he did it.

[@mikeporter4922]

Adam patterned his off of the previous K&T mill that Keith had that had the parking attachment.

[@waynep343]

Hopefully keith will share the oregon tool store that was going out so those local can shop

[@anvilhead0]

Good luck

[@erneststorch9844]

I believe I saw a video by Adam Booth where he made a parking attachment his Milwaukee horizontal mill if that might help you . As you may already know because so many CNC machine centers take a 40 milling machine taper there is a wide variety of tooling available to fit your machine.

[@DynamicSeq]

Have a 2 CH that I would love to find a vertical head for...

[@hrenes]

Ok, nice, now you can proceed with the ice cream machines!! :)

[@donmedford2563]

@14:17 ""Do weird stuff." I like doing weird stuff too but most people call it KINKY. lol

[@altonriggs2352]

Saved from the scrap heap!!! Like watching a,boy with a new electric train!!

[@louispole6285]

It's interesting that you mention some people lubricating the K&T head with grease rather than oil. A similar problem is experienced by Myford lathe owners find the previous owner erroneously used grease. Althpugh not the most popular lathe your side of the Atlantic theye atre examples in the US and Canada.

[@joebledsoe257]

Love McMaster Carr!!

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing. Nice.

[@nrok113]

right before you said you were going to get a socket, I was wondering why machinists are always using combination/open ended wrenches instead of sockets

[@mattomon1045]

Mr Rucke Please show the clean up of that head

[@Mishn0]

Didn't Keith Fenner make a docking fixture for his Bridgebort?

[@davidchambers16]

I wonder if the gear that came with the head is semi finished and still needed final machining? Is there signs it has been used / hardened etc? It was quite common for semi finished parts to escape the factory when they where closing down or getting rid of old stock.

[@BobOBob]

I can recommend a series of videos covering making your own parking attachment ;-). ;-) Can't even imagine you haven't seen those already. Adam could probably knock out a little one in a day if you haven't the time.

[@kindabluejazz]

What Adam did was non-trivial and definitely took him more than a day. In fact, he had someone make the main part on a CNC machine (Fireball?)

[@malliz1]

Thanks keith

[@WilliamTMusil]

Hiya Keith

[@homeryoung7436]

That’s exciting.

[@machintelligence]

An impressive piece of equipment. Looking at the difference between the drive gears I wondered why it wouldn't be possible to machine down the thicker one -- but it is hardened, so that isn't an option.

[@ionstorm66]

Also someone will need that gear just as Kieth needed a different one for his. There would be no reason to destroy an original gear when he could make a non hardened gear that would fit his use case.

[@MF175mp]

I would've done it, Keith's got more patience. Definitely possible

[@kindabluejazz]

He mentioned that possibility when he got it, but didn't like the idea of ruining a rare part that someone else might need. And, as he said, he had interest in making one himself, until he found an original one.

[@kentuckytrapper780]

Need to find me a head like that for my k&t model k. Great video Keith, keep'um coming..

[@johngermain3535]

The shop has several what is overam size I could see what they have.

[@kentuckytrapper780]

@@johngermain3535 not sure, it a model k 2 universal ser# 44-5000

[@johngermain3535]

Get me the Dia of the overarms and I will look.

[@kentuckytrapper780]

@@johngermain3535 4 1/4 across 13" round, thanks

[@kentuckytrapper780]

@@johngermain3535 there. 4 1/4 across and 13" all the way around. Thanks man.

[@joopterwijn]

And still not painted 😂 just kidding. Thx for the sublime content! “Nice” weather,… brrrr ⚡️ ⛈ ⚡️

[@richarddouglas8307]

Keith my universal head for my 1960 CH2 Ram Head is marked to use No.1 BRB Grease. It's 50 taper I don't think that would make a difference in the lube.

[@freethought2296]

I think Abomb made one for his machine in conjunction with Fireball tools.

[@SuperZylar]

I think it would be nice if you could attach an skyhook crane on it, like MSC Part #: 12186292 something like this, but without the pedestal. you can also winch up work pieces with it.

[@crocketteerden6240]

I always put the head on with out the over arms engaged. The pitch plate on the gear puts in proper position, then engage the over arms and clamp the head to the column.

[@the_hate_inside1085]

Unless you have a continuous flow of oil, i.e. an oiling system, grease is the go to lubrication option for straight gears. For continuous running applications, or really high speed applications, grease is not recommended as it can generate heat. But then again for those applications you would still need an oiling system...

[@turningpoint6643]

Unless the OEM manufacturer specifically mentions using grease it certainly isn't the correct lubrication for one very good reason. Grease continuously returns any wear particles or possible contaminates right back through through those now hard to find and expensive parts. And that greatly accelerates even more wear. The parts would literally eat themselves. High detergent motor oil has those additives because there used in a pressure lubricated and then filtered situation so any contamination stays in suspension until it hits that filter. Non pumped and filtered sumps exactly like that K & T head has will always use a non detergent oil. It's properly formulated to allow that same contamination to drop out of the oil and remain at the bottom until the next oil change or disassembly. Your machines your choice, but incorrect information needs to be pointed out so others can make informed choices.

[@the_hate_inside1085]

@@turningpoint6643 And how do you believe the sump on the mill is connected to that vertical head attachment?

[@turningpoint6643]

@@the_hate_inside1085 I didn't say that now did I? It's a self contained unit with probably a oil drain somewhere in the bottom of the head.

[@the_hate_inside1085]

@@turningpoint6643 "probably" Looks to me like you are talking out of your ass.

[@sparkyprojects]

Not sure how heavy the backplate is, but it seems like the easiest way is to put the backplate on first, then mount the front section, at least until you get the parking attachment.

[@jimbeaver3426]

Several years ago Adam Booth (Abom79) machined a crane so he could hang an attachment on the side of his K&T. You may want to contact him for additional details as further mention stopped without further comment. Based on his latest video I'd suggest emailing him ASAP because it appears he's getting ready for a big trip.

[@cemx86]

What purpose is the (1.5"?) shaft that projects out the front of the universal head? It didn't spin when you first ran the tool. I am guessing it is to mount the head to the parking attachment.

[@charlesk5519]

Explained above

[@garthbutton699]

OUTSTANDING🤗😎🤗😎

[@brucebellinger9783]

Two questions: Is there a crack between the tunnels for the over arms? And who or what were you looking at? Certainly not the camera.

[@charlesk5519]

There is a factory split line there...not a crack. This is used with the bolt on top to provide a clamping arrangement on the overarms.

[@catfishgray3696]

GREAT FIND, GREAT JOB, GREAT VIDEO, PET THE CATS AND DOGS FOR ME, SEE YOU NEXT TIME...

[@genemcgovern2755]

hi again Kieth,just watching you installing the universal head drive gear for Kearney &trecker 3h horizontal milling machinery I watched you playing around with a large adjustable wrench.let me ask you're you just too lazy not to use the proper socket, or box wrench, or do you not have them? I am starting to clean out my garage and basement after over65 years of collecting. my sockets range from 1/8" to 51/2" and torque multipliers with 11/2" drive. let me know if you need anything? thanks again gene. p.s. let me ask you a question?where you have gears wrenches flash lites and other tools laying on the bed of the machine, would it be a good idea to have a piece of ply wood up there to protect the machine?

[@robertpeters9438]

Wnt canned chili tonight? I got ingredients for crock but could not drive till after 3.30 and couldn't make crock tonight. Could make burgers, turkey or hb loaf by 6.30

[@jpsimon206]

Could you make use of a 40 taper collet chuck? I have a NOS grand brand 40 taper with a set of hardinge collets 1/8 of an inch to 1 in. It is surplus to me

[@jpsimon206]

I also have an extra parking attachment. It is not a factory parking attachment, it was from the sliding top of a giant cast iron table saw from the 1800s.

[@stacybelinskey2007]

I think a good project would be making a parking crane attachment

[@minbannister3625]

Would it have worked on the stoker engine to face the crosshead ways?

[@patrickosullivan4354]

Wow is that ever sweet

[@larryduncan6756]

I WORKED AT C.V.A.ON EDGE OF MY HOME TOWN-BRIGHTON,SUSSEX MANY YEARS AGO IN THE TURNING SHOP,THEN ON VERTICAL BORER ON NIGHTS. ABOUT THAT TIME THE FIRM WAS TAKEN OVER BY,? I THINK A CANADIAN COMPANY-K&T....THATS ALL FOLKS!

[@srfurley]

Did they make a slotting attachment for that machine?

[@charlesk5519]

Yes!

[@gagasmancave8859]

i was really lucky and got a similar head for my ricmond mill

[@millomweb]

15:00 Does anyone know what the big thick peg sticking out the front of the universal head is for ? And by 17:00 Keith accidentally explains it - is the cover for the splined drive shaft ! Mine doesn' telescope out like that ! (But I don't need a 'lead attachment' for cutting helical gears ;) )

[@charlesk5519]

Yes, it covers the splined shaft, but it is also where a brace attaches that gives additional support to the assembly, especially when extended. I have a 2HL with the universal head, and having the universal head is awesome! I seldom have need to extend the head, so I haven't searched too hard for the brace. It is pictured and described in the literature Keith offers on vintage machinery. Not to hard to replicate if needed.

[@millomweb]

@@charlesk5519 Presumably the brace fits the overarm bars too. My universal head doesn't move outward but has 2 height positions and a 2 speed gearbox. It's 1:1 speed with the horiz. spindle - top speed 1140 but the head 'overdrive' gear takes that up to 1600. Pic: www.flickr.com/photos/pmailkeey/50888143418 Great toys, aren't they - but I've never played with mine YET. Dad got it and I've inherited it.

[@charlesk5519]

@@millomweb Yep...Lot's of fun! If you spend some time at Keiths reprint literature site, you will find a lot of great information and pictures of all the attachments and options, and examples for their use. There is a brace for the overarms for use when horizontal milling, a separate brace available for the universal head, and I believe still another style available for the heavy duty "egghead"...the info and pics I found were scattered throughout several documents, and I found some in documents that I didn't expect to find anything in due to the title of the document. It is well worth the time invested to look through them! These machines were awesome in their day, and the design and quality is evident in the number of surviving machines! To think how many barrels of chips these produced during the war, then they just keep on going all these years! Hope you enjoy learning about and using your piece of history! Cheers

[@millomweb]

​@@charlesk5519 I noticed Keith has multiple arbor supports with different diameter bearings. I wonder if one Keith has is actually for the head - and he's not aware of it ? I suspect the 1960s was the peak for these machines - Electricity was rife, bigger was better, heavier was stonger the 'prototypes' well-established and now companies knew what they wanted and manufacturers made really good quality machine tools - just before things went specialist, programmable, computerised.

[@charlesk5519]

@@millomweb Not sure about all models of K & T, but the 2H and 2HL both have two style of arbor supports. One uses a small bronze/brass bushing/bearing with a corresponding small pilot on the end of the arbor. The other uses a larger diameter spacer/bearing on the arbor shaft and a much larger bronze/brass bushing in the support. This type can be used as intermediate supports anywhere along the arbor, and in any number that will fit for added support. But being larger, they require more clearance to the part of vice or fixture etc. The smaller pilot type is used on the end of the arbor only...more clearance but sometimes results in the support being further from the cutter, and hence less rigid setup.

[@MF175mp]

The gears are around $500 on the ebay seller. Didn't find a listing for this exact one.

[@MF175mp]

Not a smoking deal but it's about supply and demand!

[@themanualmachinist_]

This exact one is on there, better look again

[@MF175mp]

@@themanualmachinist_ sure enough, my search terms musta been a bit off

[@KensSmallEngineRepair]

have Adam Booth make you a parking attachment like he did for his K and T!

[@kindabluejazz]

It was non-trivial, and he actually had Fireball? make some of the parts on a CNC machine.

[@Guds777]

But wouldn't it been the easiest solution just to turn down or mill out the recess in the gear you got with the machine. Just modify it little bit. Even tho the face of the teeth is hardened then the body of the gear should be much softer i reckon. But i am happy for you, it's always nice to have original part for your machine. And now you got an extra gear for someone else that needs one...

[@davidstreeter9426]

There probably are, sitting on shelves in factory buildings, several of everything that K-T machines could possibly use. The trick is to locate them. Blind luck helps.

[@MF175mp]

Probably easier to win the lottery than to find anything you need like that

[@joeromanak8797]

I was thinking the same. There are probably a lot of the right parts out there in someone’s inventory but they have poor or no inventory control records for all the old loose parts on those shelves. You might get told no-can-do but they’re sitting on ten of them if they really knew what they had. 😎👍👀

[@johnflorian6745]

How (un)likely is it that this gear and head went together originally? I've no idea the quantities produced, but the 2nd gear did look like an evolved version of the first.

[@MF175mp]

@@johnflorian6745 the 2nd gear has the retaining disc in the side just because this particular head has the upper gear floating on a spline shaft with no axial constraint and this is so that you can move the head further from the body using the overarm and have a larger work envelope.