Finding excellent Horology in “Fashion Brands”

Here are some brands typically not associated with “Watch Brands” that provide top-notch horology....and how to save big time on "Watches that don't hold their value."

[@richgotti1719]

Great video video and the octo finissimo perpetual calendar is amazing. You definitely make us keep our options open on these timepieces. Keep up the good work

[@watchartsci]

Hey Rich, thanks man. I can never find a good reason to have a band-narrow focus. Lots more fun to look into the unexplored nooks and crannies. Take care, Bill

[@jman7826]

Here’s an example of price/popularity fluctuation: I was interested in getting an Oris Diver 65 with Arabic numerals on the dial, a variant they no longer produce. Watching reviews from a couple of years ago, I noticed the reviewers would often point out that the watch could be found for well under MSRP used, and would usually frame this as a negative. When I was looking on eBay and other sites, prices were back up near the original MSRP for a decent one. I wish I could have bought in when the “value” appeared to be diminished! I ended up getting a Seiko Prospex SPB143 (62MAS reissue) instead.

[@watchartsci]

There are a lot of people who have limited analytic skills J. Man. Take care, Bill

[@TimG--]

Bill. Nice review. The only value I have now re watches is do I like it ! I no longer sell my watches. I can’t get them back. Got a call from FP Journe. Picking up the soveign Monday in Miami :) You need one time (I know you are not a Rolex fan) just review all Rolexes. Nice video mate 🇺🇸

[@Javi_C]

Congratulations Tim! 🎉🎊

[@Breca]

Nice watch Tim.....enjoy !

[@watchartsci]

Tim, which Chronomètre Souverain did you get? I'm wearing mine now...nothing quite like a CS. Take care, Bill

[@johnnyboy1586]

Very interesting vid Bill,ist funny how cartier was snubbed by watch people some years ago as just a fation brand ,now there very highly regarded 😊

[@mdo5121]

I love your practicality when it comes to bang for buck....this fashion brands episode is a prime example.

[@watchartsci]

Hey MDO, what fun is it to spend too much money on a dull watch? Some of these fashion houses have incredible case and movement makers-or outsource to the best. Take care, Bill

[@clyde2801]

And THIS is why I recommend this channel to collectors I like.

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Clyde! Sorting out some new watches.What's next? Take care, Bill

[@Joshua_Nikolai]

I just found your channel, or rather KZbin told me about you 😉 Just want to say I thoroughly enjoy your content. Most watch channels just make me want to spend money, but with your channel I can sit back and enjoy the beauty of fine watchmaking and actually enjoy the hobby. In all honesty it make me want to crack open a cheaper watch and start taking things apart and putting them back together again! Much appreciated my friend. If you’ve got the interest, I’d love to hear of any watch channels that inspire you as well! Peace

[@watchartsci]

Hi Joshua, sorry it took me so long to get back to you. There's only so much fun you can have buying and collecting watches that everyone else does ... the real fun is exploring watches and movements where few others have looked! Take care, Bill

[@obesetuna3164]

Hi Bill. Only a fool would be quick to dismiss some of these so-called fashion brands.

[@watchartsci]

Yes, Tuna, yet I'm always surprised by the number that do. Well, for you and me, that means less popularity and lower prices!🤫Take care, Bill

[@gubberfranzen]

Fun fact. You can buy a Calvin Klein Infinite with an ETA 2824-2 for less than what the movement alone costs!!!

[@watchartsci]

That is a fun fact, Alunetic! Take care, Bill

[@mrbluecatone]

The AGENGRAPHE is used by FABERGE, SINGER REIMAGED, MOSER and MING, 477 components, 67 jewels and two barrels. Is an automatic movement and DOES NOT have a microrotor but a regular rotor under the dial.

[@watchartsci]

I should have known all of that Mr. Blue. My bad. I have a Van Cleef & Arpels Pierre Arpels Heure d'Ici & Heure d'Ailleurs, with the AGH-6029 by Jean-Marc Wiederrecht where he uses a platinum micro-rotor and somehow I was mixing the two up. Thanks for the bop on the head to wake me up! Take care, Bill

[@Javi_C]

Wow! Appreciate all your thoughts on this one. Really like the Chanel pieces from the Monseiur collection that you picked out.

[@watchartsci]

I think that Chanel is one to keep an eye on, Javi. I would like to see one land somewhere in the more affordable range (steel/ceramic is fine) and more the the Monseiur but with a more affordable Kenissi movement. Take care, Bill

[@h111551]

This is one of your five star videos. Everyone knows about Harry Winston’s Opus watches and MB&F but people forget about Steve Holzman’s Maitre du Temps brand which offered collaborative watches from the horological equivalent of the 1927 Yankees. When O first got into collecting you could find them NOS for a fraction of original retail. Instead of Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, et al., the MDT Chapter One reference was the joint work of Roger Dubuis, Christopher Claret and Peter-Speake Marin. Chapter Two was the joint work of Dubuis, Soeake-Marin and Daniel Roth. Chapter Three was the collaboration of Andreas Strehler and Kari Voutilainen. Maitre du Temps is pretty much forgotten but it is an example of horological value and hidden collecting value. Failed brands abound (particular in the aftermath of 2008). A gentleman in the office products business in the Chicago suburbs set up a high end microbrand for which Svend Andersen produced the watches. Antiquorum sold them. The microbrand hit the wall but the watches remain. Dr. Crott of Antiquorum is a legend and actually was heavily involved in Urban Jurgensen with Derek Pratt and Dr. Crott’s good friend Peter Baumberger who founded UJ and died in 2010 with Dr. Crott succeeding Baumberger as the owner of UJ (now in the hands of Kari Voutilainen). Looking beyond the brand logo on the dial is essential. For example, Ralph Lauren did an unsuccessful line of watches sone years back. some of the references were completely manufactured by either Jaeger LeCoultre or IWC. Back 5 or 6 years ago you could buy JLC or IWC Ralph Lauren labeled close outs at pennies on the dollar because Ralph Lauren was a purported fashion brand.

[@watchartsci]

There was a MDT by Kari V & ???, one by R. Dubuis, C. Claret and Peter you mention, all of which I regret passing on, Howard. Great examples. Take care, Bill

[@tockingwatches2377]

My takeaway. “Stay crunchy!”

[@watchartsci]

Crunchy? Learning about movements is 'stealth' ... then you can get a good deal before the herd comes snooping, Toking. Take care, Bill

[@tockingwatches2377]

@@watchartsci it’s really strange that this showed up here. It was posted on the Watch Crunch channel. 🤔

[@ivansmith4242]

It still surprises me that in this day and age people still don’t understand the difference between a watch brand and a watchmaker. Sure you can buy these types of watches but who made the watch? An “artisan” brought in from across the border and given a few training sessions? Or a an artist devoted to her craft who spent countless hours struggling to execute a vision?

[@watchartsci]

True indeed Ivan. You'd think that people who spend a lot of money on watches would bother to look beyond the brand. Take care, Bill

[@ivansmith4242]

@@watchartsci last time I checked Picasso didn’t outsource.

[@watchartsci]

@@ivansmith4242 Watchmaking and painting are not the same... you must know that.

[@ivansmith4242]

@@watchartsci try telling that to the auction houses who are positioning fine watches on the same tier as fine art. I would argue that MBandF or Urwerk are fine works of art my dear friend.

[@watchartsci]

@@ivansmith4242 Because the auction houses have fine art and watches for sale, they are arranged in different categories; and you'll not find a watch in a lot group selling Chagals. 🙄

[@Stoneitful]

Thanks Bill, 🙏

[@watchartsci]

My pleasure, Steve! Take care, Bill

[@CJ-rb3do]

Amazing content as always Bill. Every single collector should have a Daniel Roth and a Roger Dubuis (before his death) in his or her collection. Bill, would you mind giving us some information on Bradley Taylor and Josh Shapiro watches?

[@watchartsci]

CJ I am unfamiliar with Bradley Taylor. Josh Shapiro, learned how to use a rose engine to make guilloché on dials. Gets a case, drops in a UDW 33.1 movement (around $4k) and charges $30k. Does a good job on the guilloché. Take care, Bill

[@CJ-rb3do]

I agree Bill. I’d love to support these North American watchmakers, but their price is just stupid. The new Bradley Taylor is 25.5k. What the heck? I’ll pass, thank you.

[@woonfaseng8737]

only watch enthusiasts have ever heard of Daniel Roth

[@watchartsci]

So what Woon? Take care, Bill

[@James-xv2ev]

Bulgari, Hermes and Cartier - they have made some of the more interesting watches to come out in recent years and horologically are not to be sniffed at! They also provide immaculate customer service in my experience.... and you can even buy your wife some jewelry at the same time if you are not very careful!!!

[@watchartsci]

Hi James, I think if you concentrate on the contents of a watch instead of the brand, we find all kinds of gems out there! Take care, Bill

[@collectible_watches]

the Roma is one you indeed talk about quite often .... but I would really consider looking at the octo finissimo and NOT the Roma.

[@watchartsci]

The main reason I tend to talk about the Roma more, CW, is that the base price of an Octo Roma is $6,350 less than the base price of an Octo Finissimo. So if you have almost $13,000 to spend on a Finissimo-go ahead. It's a much thinner watch, but not as many people can afford that much. On the secondary market you can save almost $10,000 on an Octo Roma. Take care, Bill

[@kvom01]

Bulgari perpetual for me.

[@watchartsci]

Kirk (right?) that's a nice watch ... not inexpensive ... but very nice. Take care, Bill

[@SirIke49]

Thank you, great video. Shouldn't judge a watch by the name on the dial.

[@watchartsci]

Very true Stephen! Decisions by stereotype usually doesn't work out well. Take care, Bill

[@AbdulRWatches]

Great video Bill, I think fashion brands like Bulgari, Hermes and Cartier are leading the way in making horological substantial watches that are recognised by non watch enthusiasts and well received by enthusiasts as well. Thanks Bii for making my Buy list even larger 😂 Have a great weekend.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Abdul, I'm keeping my eye on Chanel ... maybe they'll drop a watch with an FP Journe movement that I could almost afford.🤫 Take care, Bill

[@AbdulRWatches]

@@watchartsci That would be a great move, I will definitely keep my eyes open but my wallet is shut at the moment 😂