Fine Structure Constant - Sixty Symbols

[@AlienScientist]

The Fine Structure Constant is simply the ratio of the speed of light in a vacuum to the speed of light in the electronic structure of the atom. This is why it is dimensionless, because it is a ratio of velocities. Do the math, and you will be able to derive wonderful new interpretations for Planck's constant and quantum physics. Try it!

[@brenlee9325]

Thanks. He didn't say what it was a ratio of. Of course it wouldn't need units if it's a ratio.

[@k9876k]

Thanks for explaining in simple terms. It is just like pi in that regard, a ratio between measurements.

[@johnclavis]

This professor has a very engaging manner. I'd love to hear more from him! Thanks for these superb videos!

[@U014B]

"What's the code for the airlock?" "One, three, seven." "AMAZING! That's the same code I have on my luggage!"

[@EXQCmoi]

A true original. To my knowledge he's the first on KZbin to bring this subject into the spotlight. And even after 13.7 years there's not a word those contemporary experts can add to it.

[@PisceanKiwi]

33rd Prime is 137. Numbers have no Owners. Think b i g.

[@FracturedReality]

@@PisceanKiwi Interesting it matches the age of our universe, Is that big enough.

[@edgeeffect]

I love that little animation of the electrons around an atom... Having seen it (and animated it myself) as little plastic spheres dancing around a collection of slightly larger plastic spheres so many times, that animation really helps get over the quantum particle/wave wassaname. Great stuff.

[@IamGrimalkin]

Hey everyone, the "alien civilisation" thing is just a thought experiment. What he means is, the fine structure constant is something independent of our unit system and perspective. Whether it is practical to send such a message is more or less irrelevant.

[@minkfloyd-492]

IamGrimalkin actually it's a reality. look up tengri137 I'm mind blown right now

[@MichaelMonterey]

LOL!!! Bravo! Irrelevant indeed, especially if "c" really is constant, at least for idiotic physicists and wanna-be space explorers. Think, if intelligent alien humanoids live more than a few hundred light years from here, by the time they would get that ridiculous message, "we" will probably be self-extincted. Anyway, to more advanced humanoids,137 and 1/137... and a bunch of other digitized Earth text may be indistinguishable from chaotic stellar RF noise. Furthermore, the fact that "alpha" mystifies "the great & famous" QM maths-physics stars, while being considered a sacred grail cow, proves that nobody understands QM. I think that's because QM can't help anyone understand the reality of the universal field of being (the totality of the present moment we might call cosmic reality). QM's high priests & groupies may as well be schizophrenics floating around in an intergalactic fog of dark energy. Yep, otherwise why say that the decimal version of 1/137... is its "precise" value, when it's really just a mathematical construct, a fuzzy label in a speculative bubble universe in the minds of humanoids who can't see the difference between maps & symbols and infinitely complex environmental realities? The maths are not the field phenomena they represent, approximately, at best. At worst, QM notions & shibboleths are as misleading as Ptolemaic myths, fictions & dogma.

[@The.Golden.Door.]

Alpha's not independent of our perspective or unit system. Its rooted in oour fundamental appication of vision, memory, and cognition. And it does hold a certain type of dimension. The problem is not that its sooo mystified or complex , actually the opposite... its really simple and we tend to over look the great simplicity of light in matter. ...like a fish in the ocean.

[@josephcoon5809]

@@MichaelMonterey I’m curious as to what value you bring to technology with your vastly superior skills in stringing unrelated words together. 😂

[@franklipsky3396]

the speed of light and energy scale relation constants e.g. alpha have not produced one chip This useless speculation entertains the masses so they will not notice Biden with the cooperation of Republicans just signed a non funded bill to rebuild our semiconductor -chip industry.The same people who exported chip manufacturing to Taiwan and China (NOT DESIGNS)

[@ragnkja]

When sending messahes to outer space, they only use the simplest bases: units ("tap out 137 beeps," as you say) and, to send "images", binary: on/off or long/short signals making up a rectangle with prime number side lengths.

[@TomLeg]

At one time I took a maths course in which the prof asked what was special about 137. He mentioned that it's a prime, and some other characteristics, when a student commented that we were in Room 137. So one more reason 137 is special.

[@omarkilani5368]

u alive?

[@joshuah2234]

Another interesting value for alpha is 1/(4pi^3 + pi^2 + pi). It actually approximates the recommended value up to 5 sig figs.

[@Eduardo-tq5sk]

No that's the product to e^2 equal 1/137!

[@connyespersen3017]

Very interesting Fact. I am speculating why the fine structure constant is 1 divided with 4*π^3 + π^2 + π and the FSC always tell us about the force the EM field will influence two EM particles by. It is so strage, that I am sure there is a higher meaning behind it. Thank for your information. In speciel circumstances, the FSC ~ 1/137 ~ e^2 div 4*π ~1 div C who tell us, that a person who have a velocity at 3,6 km/h for a resting observer will fell the moving of a secund as 1-(1/3 x 10^(-10)) secund. It always tell us, that a meter from us always will have to have an equal length in time, namely (1/3 x 10^(-10)) secunds, more than witch time, we measure on our watchs. I think it give us a intuative way to think about spacetime, timedialation and space curving. But surely you can derive the same about time and space from Einsteins GR.

[@wealthempire8534]

If i am not mistaken you could just factor out a pi to get 1/(π(4π^2 + π + 1)). Then ok if we were to solve what you did 1/(3.14159 * (4 * 9.86959 + 3.14159 + 1)) 1/(3.14159 * (39.47836 + 3.14159 + 1)) 1/(3.14159 * 43.76095) = 1/137.29593 Interesting I know it’s the square but 4-2-1 is another interesting number along with 3x+1 ;-) Personally I like 1/137 better then the 137.2953 bc it makes a beautiful pattern 0.0072992700729920072992700 like a spin or a dancing electron should be 😜

[@walterbrownstone8017]

Why not do it the easy way? e/2x 101, the 26th prime. What it means is every particle is a prime number and it means the electron is made of 101 unit particles.

[@NirrumTheMad]

@lotrfreak2010 0-9 are our base numbers, and we use the next 4 to show how our place value works. You could continue up to at least 23 if you wanted to be sure to get the message across. 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, add one value onto the left, repeat sequence. Stopping at ten wouldn't give them an example of how the system repeats

[@davidwilkie9551]

"Independent of units", because it IS the Number of Theoretical assembly of logarithmic coordination condensation modulation cause-effect. When Reciproction-recirculation is imposed line-of-sight superposition Singularity, THIS is the conic-cyclonic modulo-geometrical mechanism of inside-outside holographic time-timing presence. (Not your average number, the "Recursion to the Mean" Quiescent conglomeration @.dt zero-infinity sync-duration floating point embodiment) Definitely Mathemagical. Truly fitting the constants of elemental e-Pi-i sync-duration connectivity.., in Principle.

[@sixtysymbols]

Interesting exchange... I'll make sure I pass this on to Professor Eaves!

[@DeeplyStill]

Would love to know more about the fine structure constant. Came across it as a layman a few years ago and believe it links a lot of other constants and dictates (or rather expresses) the structure of the universe itself; hence your observation that we may not be here to discuss it

[@ricekab]

@KrustynailsVideo 137 in a octal numeral system (just as an example), 137 would be correspond to the number 95 in our decimal system.

[@SinisterMJ]

Or you just send out 137 pings, and everyone can count, no matter what system you use.

[@muhammadtanvir5298]

Thanks for nice and simple explanation about Fine Structure Constant. I was actually going to watch the movie, 'UFO (2018)'. But before that wanted to understand what does the FSC means in physics, as the movie description in IMDB is telling about this dimensionless constant.

[@tooberetta]

I just watched that movie last night, that's why I'm here.

[@dbatesdob]

@@tooberetta ditto

[@jim40135]

He said "recherché"; when used in english conversation it generally refers to something chosen deliberately which has a rare quality or specific use, ie; "You may find this collection of late 19th century vacuum cleaner nozzles a little recherché." HTH

[@MrJepcats]

@RasmusLastname It'd probably be conveyed through number of filled squares on a grid or something, rather than the actual symbols '1', '3' and '7'. Probably not that way exactly but you know what I mean.

[@SpaceLaunchLabs]

@700 That's why you send 137 pulses, not the actual number 137.

[@stardude692001]

one problem would be it would only last for a fraction of a second. I don't know if we have the technology to send a signal like that. The bigger problem with that is that it could look just like a random pulsar, the main thing you want to convey is that the signal is artificial, just the fact you can send a radio signal means you are intelligent, you don't need to add math to impress.

[@tacobell222122]

Well when talking about pieces of information in binary there are bytes but we also know about cubits which are 1, 0, and neither. So the chance of being able to communicate successfully is quite low especially when you consider "Visible light" is less than one percent of the spectrum.

[@ObjectsInMotion]

The point was that if we want to send something that will almost surely not be confused with just random static, something basic to the universe would be the most likely option.

[@Eduardo-tq5sk]

Doctor , scientist, profe thank you and nice to see you!

[@Christophe_L]

@lee155912000 For example velocity is measured in km/h or mi/h or m/s, all of these represent distance over time. Pi, on the other hand, is the ratio of the circle's circumference to its diameter, so it's distance/distance (cm/cm or km/km), thus they cancel each other out, leaving the number 'adimensional'. In this particular number, the dimensions also cancel out.

[@QuantumDisciple7]

We discovered the fine structure constant in 1916, so an 18 years difference isn't really that much time compared to the probability that they will have had radio transimitters for at least the same amount of time as us, if not longer. If we have had transmitters for about114 years and we have known about the constant for about 96 years, that ratio goes to 1,100%, as the limit is taken as time goes to infinity of a function of time. So it's safe to say they were founded at roughly the same time.

[@adamtutte8618]

Red shift would alter the frequency and wavelength of the wave, not the number of peaks in the wave. The way signals are generally transmitted through radio waves is either by Amplitude Modulation or Frequency Modulation (AM or FM), rather than attempting to explain thoroughly in the comments character limit I'd suggest checking out the Wiki page on Radio, under the Transmitter and Modulation subsection, this should give you some idea on how these processes work. Hope you find it helpful.

[@michaelmelgaard1]

It should be noted that he's using the non-Si version of the fine structure constant where Coulomb's constant is normalized to 1 and is dimensionless.. If you type what he put into your calculator, you will not get anything close to 1/137. To get the fine structure constant, multiply by what he wrote by: (1/(4*pi*epsilon-knot)) Where epsilon knot = the electric permittivity constant: 8.854187817…*10^-12 F/m This will result in about: 1/137.035999...

[@gralha_]

It is not exactly 137, sadly

[@Ni999]

And it was at that point that the aliens would have decided to not talk to beings throwing inaccurate reciprocals around the universe.

[@bewstre]

What a gem of a video!

[@Antediluvian137]

The number is definitely dimensionless. Defining alpha with c expressed in feet/s or miles/s does change it completely, because those are arbitrary measurements. meters/s is the SI unit for velocity, and because the other constants in the expression are defined according to this same SI model, it does result in a perfectly dimensionless ratio. Aliens would find it to be the same, because regardless of their units of measurement, the *ratio* between the constants would yield the same result.

[@ifsey]

Like he said, it's dimensionless and therefore is the same value in all measurement systems!

[@Catdore]

137º propagates Fibonnacci spirals in plants, as with sunflower seeds and cacti.

[@NirrumTheMad]

@Valendros I found a large poster on what to do if you're the first person to make contact with aliens but in this case, You'd put down 14 squares, in the dust or on paper or what have you. in each of these squares put dots representing each number. Then you'd repeat the process with the symbols 0-13 (so they understand our place value system and that we operate mostly in base 10) Then you'd draw a simple math problem. :.+::=:::. and repeat it with numbers. Do this a few times

[@stardude692001]

as it travels the light would be red shifted by the expansion of space, so a 45 second transmittion with 137 peaks might stretch to have 138 peaks or more depending on how far it went, yes we could compensate if we were directing the signal to a specific star and knew the distance, but I still think Carl Sagan's idea of prime numbers is the best way to do it.

[@lylecosmopolite]

On the beauty of the fine structure constant FSC), read Barrow, John (2002) The Constants of Nature. Pantheon. There are 3 known attractive/repulsive forces: electromagnetism (EMF), gravity, and the strong force holding the nucleus together. Each force has dimensionless "coupling constant". FSC is the coupling constant for EMF. Forces are mediated by boson exchange. The boson mediating EMF is the photon. The FSC thus underlies almost all of physics, chemistry, biology and technology.

[@manuelcastaneda7838]

The value is a bit differ. To four digits that is the charge of the electron in Planck units.

[@alexanderwestphal9777]

if you change the units of c the units of the other constants have to change too and they would be in the same ratio

[@yourlordandsaviouryeesusbe2998]

Michael Atiyah's supposed proof of the Riemann Hypothesis is based on the Fine Structure Constant. I hope it turns out to be correct.

[@nname263]

you would send it in binary since you can't really beam numbers across the sky. better with on/off signals

[@FlashFizz]

In some other very similar universe alpha is almost EXACTLY the inverse of 137, thereby baffling its intelligent inhabitants.

[@stevenvh17]

It's a ratio, yes, but not an equation. If you're refering to the FSC = e^2 / h-bar c, then FSC is just the LHS (Left Hand Side) of the equation, not the complete equation. That would be just like saying energy is an equation because you can write E = m c^2.

[@Tossphate]

I love fundimental constants. In a universe as mysterious as ours, they are like a way of nailing a cloud to a wall.

[@dekippiesip]

They are like the parameters of the matrix we live in.

[@omarkilani5368]

still alive?

[@jasonneu81]

How is this prof called? I love the sixty symbols videos with him even more than the other ones. He reminds me a lot of the greatest teacher I ever had back when I still had to go to school/high-school but I haven't seen his name in the descriptions of some videos I checked.

[@user_nb]

Only half a decade late answer but Professor Laurence Eaves

[@ObjectsInMotion]

I agree, you are completely correct. I was simply using the word equation in repetition of what he said. A better word would be formula, or more specifically, it has a formual.

[@PATSICK]

"If they have telescopes and radio transmitters, they will know this constant"--We had telescopes and radio transmitters in 1898; but we certainly didn't know anything about this constant. Admittedly we didn't yet have either solid state or "hollow state" eg. vacuum tube, electronics. Broadly, this is true, however.

[@stevenvh17]

If you would use feet instead of meter in each constant you'd get the same value. If you would mix them you would get something like m/ft, which is dimensionless, but has a conversion factor, in this case 0.3048. Divide your result by the conversion factor and you get the same result.

[@omarkilani5368]

still alive?

[@Yezpahr]

So this is why Rick named his dimension C-137.

[@stardude692001]

sorry I think what I mean is the byte, that's the name for the grouping of bits right? Though if I remember correctly it is two groupings of four that make a byte. Though non of it really matters since the only aliens that could actually interact meaningfully with, would be ones that could travel to this planet.

[@metzger90]

Wouldn't sending this number out to the universe only work if the alien civilization that receives it has a base 10 number system? Would the number be different in a base 13 or whatever base you use system? I'm bad at the maths so I don't really know.

[@jojo-ur2li]

Did you find an answere to those questions?

[@goldentitan21]

I was reading in the new scientist that a 'new' study by reasearchers J.King and J.Webb that the alpha constant may vary spatially. Wouldn't this contradict lorentz symmetry and einstein's equations? Also wouldn't that mean that we live in a very restricted part of the universe?

[@zxwmabcdef5439]

Wouldn't it determine the properties of metals since metals are basically a lattice of nuclei in an electron gas?

[@AndorianBlues]

I wonder what the universe would be like if the fine structure constant were *exactly* 137?

[@Ten37Jim]

We could also easily argue that any civilisation that has developed electronic transmissions, and thus the technology to listen for us, has worked out a binary system (base 2), so we could just send it out using that. 137 separate beeps gets a bit tedious..

[@elimik31]

Can somebody explain why this number is more mysterious than all the other constants in physics, like for example the gravitational constant? What's the difference? Is it because nobody understands why it has this particular formula?

[@Learn2burn]

the way the physicist describes the fine structure constant (e^2*h-bar^1*c^-1) is actually not correct. he has to multiply the expression with the coulomb constant. otherwise you won't get 1/137.

[@SpotterVideo]

What do the Twistors of Roger Penrose and the Hopf Fibrations of Eric Weinstein and the "Belt Trick" of Paul Dirac have in common? In Spinors it takes two complete turns to get down the "rabbit hole" (Alpha Funnel 3D--->4D) to produce one twist cycle (1 Quantum unit). Can both Matter and Energy be described as "Quanta" of Spatial Curvature? (A string is revealed to be a twisted cord when viewed up close.) Mass= 1/Length, with each twist cycle of the 4D Hypertube proportional to Planck’s Constant. In this model Alpha equals the compactification ratio within the twistor cone, which is approximately 1/137. 1= Hypertubule diameter at 4D interface 137= Cone’s larger end diameter at 3D interface where the photons are absorbed or emitted. The 4D twisted Hypertubule gets longer or shorter as twisting or untwisting occurs. (720 degrees per twist cycle.)

[@islandbuoy4]

137 + 69 = THE code do a search of 'THE MAYA CODE 137 69 key to portals' >>>it is actually best to start on page 1 read the brief intro and then skip to page 4 work backwards to the first post. It is disjointed because it is only a repository of associations.

[@tembofly]

But that is not the equation for the fine structure constant. He left off the 4 pi times the permittivity of free space from the denominator. Plus, it is highly likely the fine structure constant changes over cosmological time, like the Hubble constant does.

[@joshhyyym]

To send the signal it would be in binary, which any species that uses data transmission would have to come into contact with. In addition to that base ten is abstract, where as base two is a fundamental system, and it happens to be currently the most used numerical system on the planet by several orders of magnitude :)

[@the1exnay]

Why send it in binary? That would be rather presumptive. There are other more fundamental ways to send such simple information. In the ratios of wavelengths of light, in the length of pulses/pauses, in the number of flashes. Perhaps a combination for extra clarity

[@stardude692001]

but don't we only need 4 digits per bit so we can make base ten numbers? If the aliens only had 8 fingers they might work in base 8 and they would only need 3 digits to a bit, right?

[@stardude692001]

so beep nothing nothing nothing beep nothing nothing beep. how would you impress that the voids were zeros and not just spaces?

[@ThisIsMyAltAccount]

This number isn't dimensionless: if you were to write it using the speed of light in feet or miles, it would be completely different. Thus, to assume aliens would also understand it as 1/137 is an incorrect assumption.

[@gowrissshanker9109]

How do alien know our mathematical symbols???

[@GH-oi2jf]

They wouldn’t need to. We would send instructions for decoding our numbers. Actually, that was done already for two spacecraft - Pioneers 10 and 11.

[@termikesmike]

And what if their 1 is our 3 and their 3 is our 7 and their 7 is our 5 = they'd think we were idiots !!

[@classicmartini]

Who's rock'n out to this banger in 2020! :-)

[@chrisdoherty7493]

Yeah :)

[@GustavoSimas]

Actually the value of α is (e^2)/(4πε0ħc), where ε0 is the electric permittivity constant: 8.85*10^-12 F/m. The professor forgot the 4πε0...

[@Tore_Lund]

He did forget, and luckily I wasn't the only one to notice this. Cheers Gustavo! NB: If we really want to impress the aliens, we need to send more than the fine structure constant: (1/(2πα))^1/2= Feigenbaum Delta, an equal dimensionless constant in all chaotic systems, to show the aliens that we have figured out that the fine tuning in our universe is not fine tuning at all, but just islands of order in the quantum foam fluctuations, which means they can't be random in nature, but are chaotic, i.e. they likely follow one simple rule. Then they will surely hand over their warp drive technology to us?

[@termikesmike]

@@Tore_Lund re " If we really want to impress the aliens, we need to send..." 'em Mom's Apple Pie

[@stardude692001]

why is there a b in there? isn't that hexadecimal? So does alien binary start with 0000=0 or 0000=1 or maybe they go with 3 or 5 digit bits? these problems would be easy enough to solve if they were nearby but if you have to wait 20 years between responses. . .

[@stardude692001]

I believe I saw something on that years ago, before things like youtube. It was either in the movie Contact or I saw it on some SETI special on the old history channel. Either way I believe that is the agreed on message to send to show intelligent life.

[@rogerfroud300]

Did this explain what it is? What is the Fine Structure? I have no idea.

[@-Kerstin]

Didn't you hear? It's a great number. It's a excellent number! It's an amazing number!!

[@-Kerstin]

I found this explanation "when we go to calculate simple processes, such as two electrons scattering off one another through the exchange of photons, we only need to consider the simple case of one photon exchange -- every additional photon you consider is less important by a factor of 1/137"

[@rogerfroud300]

@@-Kerstin - Thanks for that. It's easy for experts to be so familiar with these things that they forget that some of us have no idea what they are.

[@skynumbered212121]

@ragnkja You may already be aware of this, but we did send a message decades ago and we received an answer about 10 years ago. Search: alien civilization makes contact!

[@uthikoloshe]

He says he doesnt have a breifcase, then tells us its a mess. I recon the combo IS 137.

[@Criterionx1]

@danthemanzizzle Since it is a "pure number" as mentioned in the vid, it is a ratio that comes out the same no matter what measurement is used. For instance; when using th radian system to measure an angle the value would be the same whether oyu measured in inches or centimeters or anything. Since a radian is the ratio between the radius and the length of the arc, any unit used will cancel itself out in the division. Aren't Pure Numbers awwesome?

[@krischalkhanal2842]

Why e^2/(h cut)c a non dimensional constant? Doesn't e have a dimension in charge (or current and time)?

[@GH-oi2jf]

No. Ratios are dimensionless. Pi, for example, has no units.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

the units of e e / h c cancel out

[@jasonbarr819]

isn't coulomb's constant also involved in its definition though?

[@MisterMANada]

If he thinks that alpha could be different in different universes, why would it be a good number to send to another universe where it would mean nothing?

[@ObjectsInMotion]

Those numbers are the same everywhere on every planet in the universe. Physics doesn;t change depending on what planet you're on.

[@spacemonkeyjim]

Wavelength would be no good as a) wavelength changes dependent on the relative motion of the sender and the observer aka the Doppler effect also the b) the lengths are expressed in meters, a human measurement c) the signal would be lost in the general noise of the universe very quickly. I'm am unsure what the "collection of frequencies from elements" is supposed to mean however frequency is measured in cycles per second again a human measurement so I'm afraid not sorry.

[@richelliott2117]

The base used to represent a number only affects how it is written not its numerical value. So137 in anyother base is still the same number. The same way 11 in base 2 is the same as 3in base 10.

[@firstnamelastname-oy7es]

+Rich Elliott 3 in base 10 is 3, but 11 in base 2 is 1011

[@WilbertKiemeneij]

It IS dimensionless. There's a factor k sub e in there with a value of one. That makes it dimensionless.

[@stardude692001]

Yeah, I'm sorry I was not trying to be mean, I don't fully understand everything about this stuff, so I was really unsure what you were saying and how to reply. I study science and history mostly to understand the concepts so I can apply them to philosophy so my grasp on the details is a little weak. Hopefully someone who understands it all will see our conversation and comment.

[@mawrokgm]

You would somehow have to tell them what base you are working in. Binary would be the first choice because it is easy. Maybe start the sequence with 2 and then a pause for a while and continue the message.

[@ideegeniali]

Nah, 137 is small enough to send without using a base. Send 137 oulses, then pause, then 137 pulses again. Use a duty cycle of 1/137 on the pulses as well!

[@posro1988]

a question just popped in my head...if there are universes which have different physics so that it allows different chemical elements would we be able to bring them into our own universe and make use of them?..I'm thinking no, but would like to hear a physicists opinion

[@NirrumTheMad]

@Valendros let's hope the have long-range photon sensors of some kind, or at least one sense in common

[@brogcooper25]

I like that he said recherche. Apparently he is a numberphile and a word smith.

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

@alucardmath Ah, okay, that works. I got 0.007296 using values rounded to 4 sig figs. That's close enough to 1/137 for my tastes! Thanks. I don't know why the permittivity constant wasn't mentioned in the video, though I probably should have recognized it given the units I ended up with . .

[@brendawilliams8062]

After my own heart. A no. Cruncher.

[@caperature4335]

4:45 Did he say "recherchez"? I don't know this word.

[@robertbrandywine]

"To search for" in French.

[@yearswriter]

Or you can send actual value of number. like 137 stones or 137 positive bites or whatever.

[@andreirocks1992]

137 is the Reduced Elite Constant

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

What units are those numbers in? I tried mks: e = 1.60219x10^-19 Coulombs (Ampere-seconds) h-bar = 6.6262x10-34 Joule-seconds / 2pi (kg-m^2/s) c = 2.99792x10^8 m/s e^2/(h-bar*c) has units of Ampere^2 * seconds^4 / (kilograms*meters^3) Even after converting Amperes in terms of Newtons per meter, I'm left with seconds^2/meters^3 What input units yield a unitless 1/137?

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

@MisterMANada It could be different in different universes, but he didn't say it would be good to send to different universes; it would be good to send to other planets in our own universe (own galaxy really..)

[@Altorin]

aliens might count in a different base, and would certainly count using different symbols, so communicating any numbers to them would be difficult

[@dekippiesip]

If you use binary you only need 2 symbols. I think they can figure it out from there.

[@thedocta_certified]

You can send the 137 in binary, an obvious universal counting system

[@thedocta_certified]

or you can even send 137 equal length beeps, with a long period of rest between each set of 137.

[@anomalous_phenomena_251]

It's in the Rendlesham incident, goes to 14 decimal places.

[@EclecticSceptic]

I wonder what a universe would be like if alpha was the same, but the three values making the fraction had changed.

[@stardude692001]

good idea. The only problem is how will they know which is one and which is zero. 10001001 or 01110110, if one is gibberish or nothing important and the other is the FSC then it would be kinda safe to assume they pick the right one. still I think if we are going to send a message primes are the best bet.

[@MeOnStuff]

In the American pronunciation, you are correct, however British English does include the 'and'.

[@akbeast49]

this may be stupid but wouldnt it be a bad idea to send out 137 because isnt there a chance that a alian race could of came up with a different type of science or it turned out that our thoeres or wrong

[@av733]

OK but you haven't explained what the number 137 describes (what is its purpose and how dose it apply to anything?).

[@QuantumDisciple7]

I'm think that sending 137 'beeps' is how it would be communicated. I highly doubt that they would try to teach base ten mathematics first.

[@SprocketWatchclock]

I think the problem is that people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea of a dimensionless number. I think it would be more helpful to explain it in terms of another more commonly known and understood dimensionless number, π.

[@jeffcreighton8669]

How is this different than saying 118 elements of chemistry / mass of hydrogen 1.00784 * the width of the paper 8.5 inches?

[@vortexlegend101]

Alipha is not 1/137, it’s just coincidentally quite close to it.

[@ricekab]

@VoxSweden Was thinking the same thing. We might aswell have been working with a system other than the decimal one and it would still feel "natural" to us.