Finish Test on Cherry + Cherry Plywood (WnW

[@Wordsnwood]

Oil-Modified Polyurethane and other fun stuff! Build Article: www.wordsnwood.com/2018/finishtest/ It's always a good idea to test out your finishing method. But on a big project, I would argue that it should be considered to be mandatory. I'm planning a project which will involve cherry plywood and solid cherry. I use cherry frequently, so I'm pretty sure of a good finishing method, but I still thought I would take the time to practice first. I tested Oil-Modified Waterbased Polyurethane, Dewaxed Shellac, and Pre-Stain Conditioner in various combinations. And no, this video is not sponsored by Minwax or Rustoleum. NOTE: back in 2013, before I started making youtube videos, I also wrote a photo-journal on using Lye to jump-start the aging of cherry. You can read that article here: www.wordsnwood.com/2013/lye/ ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- LINKS TO SOME OF THE ITEMS USED: (Affiliate Links) amzn.to/2zKhoSH - minwax oil-modified polyurethane amzn.to/2QnUvcX - Zinsser Seal Coat shellac amzn.to/2NTefIN - minwax water-based pre-stain conditioner amzn.to/2Qo7oDV - Foam Brushes amzn.to/2zJHhli - You can even buy Cherry Plywood on Amazon… ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- Many more woodworking projects: www.wordsnwood.com The best way that you can help support what I do is to buy one of my woodworking plan packages. Details here: wordsnwood.com/plans/ Follow me on Social Media: instagram.com/words.n.wood facebook.com/wordsnwood ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- Thank-you!

[@ooCHICOoo]

Wordsnwood (Art Mulder) hi 👋 my friend. amazing video learning something today iam. going to do in my next project thanks you for updating us

[@JK-vr8ko]

Nice vid. Agree mod. Poly & shellac give nice result. So many finishing options....experimenting to achieve that “secret formula” is the fun part. Found myself doing the multiple test process, like you, is way to go before “practicing” on actual project. Thanks for posting!

[@pgfollett]

Timing of this video is great for me; I'm building a cherry vanity right now. My favourite finish is wipe-on poly. I dilute regular poly with thinner to save money. Your result reinforces my feeling that conditioner is a waste of time. 2 coats of shellac followed by poly is a great finish but time consuming. I wish you could fast forward a couple of years to see how the shellac base influences the colour change over time. Thanks for a very timely contribution.

[@Wordsnwood]

Have a look at wordsnwood.com/2013/lye/ --- a year before I got into youtube I made a photo essay on an experiment with using lye to age cherry. It was like jump-starting the aging by 3-4 years. Not the easiest process, but for a smaller project it is possible.

[@pgfollett]

Interesting read, thanks, Art.

[@Thom4123]

I really appreciate how you went over each product and it’s application. I like the oil modified poly the most. Thank you for the information I have a bed with cherry so this was perfect timing. Take Care.

[@Pghpete5]

I like foam too but these are well worth the extra $1 Wooster Brush Foam King. The foam is a much smaller cell so finishes apply much nicer for me. Additionally they are much higher quality foam with nice plastic handles so if you are using a water based finish of any kind you can rinse and dry them and use them many times. Such a small investment and they're now my "go to" for all non-wipe-on finishes. Buy one and giver a go. You'll like them.

[@ErieShoresRodShop]

Very helpful! I'm working on my first solid cherry project and have been trying to decide on a finish for it. Now I'm leaning towards the Oil Modified Poly.

[@roberthoyle6442]

Great and timely video. I just finished a small project and was going to do a wipe on poly finish, with oil based poly thinned with mineral spirits . When I started to dilute the poly much to my surprise the poly or mineral spirits separated and the two had 2 distinct layers floating. I then realized that I had picked up the can of oil modified poly rather than the oil based poly. I applied the "modified" poly and was very impressed with the results. SO LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP !

[@scottrobinson1217]

Hi Art. Great video! I've seen another cherry project video where an 8:1 poly:stain mixture was used to slightly darken the finish from the get-go. I always test my finishes, so will give it a go. I'm wondering if anyone else has tried it. My perspective on the finish test: the oil-modified poly appears to be sufficient to get the desired finish (perhaps another coat or two with sanding between coats will "richen" the appearance). Thanks.

[@jean-marclariviere7618]

Thank you so much Sir, really happy i caught this video, just about to embarq on a 26' long x 8' high Mid-Century inspired wall unit in my new house, in cherry, veneer and solid...mine will be rotary caus i do love cathedrals....so again thank you, from Morin Heights Quebec

[@robshamel3210]

The shellac poly option in the long run may not be more work if it requires less sanding. Just a thought.

[@Wordsnwood]

Good point. I had overlooked the fact that the shellac and poly essentially had 3 coats vs 2

[@RobinLewisMakes]

I've never used sealer coats before but I only ever see a handful of people using them. Are there cases where they're super important?

[@Wordsnwood]

I have rarely used them, as I tend to NOT stain wood, so I'm usually not that worried about uneven stain absorption. I think that for softer woods they can be helpful.

[@rickrudd]

I'm redoing a cherry bed, and I think I'm going to do it just to cut down blotchiness as much as possible. But he makes a compelling case here for sure

[@awkragt]

Awesome video. Perfect for selecting finish on a project!

[@martinwest2722]

Nice job! Hard to tell from the video but the straight poly looks a bit blotchy colour wise, but richer. The conditioner one looks more even coloured. Is this a fair statement? Good advice on dewaxed shellac purchase...next time I am in Buffalo or Watertown. I avoid that Port Huron bridge! Greetings from Peterborough!

[@Wordsnwood]

Port Huron is much easier than the Detroit bridge! :-) But from Peterborough I'd probably prefer heading east also! Better than having to go through Toronto traffic. Yeah, your comments on the conditioner piece are fair. It varied with the lighting but I found that the conditioner piece actually had a hint of grey in it, as compared to the non-conditioner piece.

[@greatitbroke]

Nice video Art I agree the shellac with the poly looks great. I can see your point about a larger project though. It would be different if you could spray it. Wiping it no way. Would take you a month to finish it.

[@Wordsnwood]

I have never really gotten into spraying, since I rarely do really big projects.

[@paulbriggs3072]

Danish oil darkens more still. Two coats of orange shellac on top is not only historic, but richer still.

[@WesHamstra]

I'd say the conditioner doesn't help any. Where did you find cherry plywood?

[@Wordsnwood]

BCW Lumber in Brantford. Philmore here in London has it also, but more money. Ditto A+M Wood Specialty

[@Wordsnwood]

Ps: in my experience most hardwood lumber places have some of the nicer hardwood plywoods.

[@WesHamstra]

Wordsnwood (Art Mulder) I buy almost all my lumber from philmore. I know they are expensive but I never buy a lot at one time so I can't justify driving out to Brampton

[@daw162]

The shellac panel with pre-stain conditioner definitely looks more even, even if it's not that dark. As it gets UV, it may end up being the one that looks the best. I've never used "conditioners", though, other than on test pieces. They strike me as nothing more than colorless bases that don't actually need to be purchased.

[@Jeziorski7]

What if you didn’t put the poly in the shellac? How about other oils like tongue oil? Would you just use that or put poly over those too?

[@Wordsnwood]

This was in preparation for some kitchen cabinets... anywhere that there is a risk of water I use Polyurethane. Those other finishes might be a fine choice for cherry in other situation. If I would use tongue oil I would probably use it by itself. I have used it years ago, but lately I don't have the patience for things that need 24hrs or more to fully dry

[@Jeziorski7]

Thanks! I’ve always been a stain and poly guy but wouldn’t mind trying other applications. I have a cherry shelf going in a bathroom so for protection I want poly. Would you stain it? Also how about ash? Looking to get a bit more colour out of it and this one I wanted a bit more of a oil finish compared to the cherry

[@Wordsnwood]

@@Jeziorski7 Stain is colour - which is a personal preference. I usually prefer to not stain cherry, as I like the natural colour that develops with time. If I want to hurry it up, I would build it and then put it outside in full sun for a couple days, and it will noticeably darken. Ash is very pale, and I usually like a bit of amber on that which I get from the oil-modified-poly, but it also takes stain very well -- it looks and acts a lot like oak.

[@akaredcrossbow]

I definitely like the pre stain shellac poly the best. As I watch all these videos staining custom cabinets it pushes me more towards just painting my new custom cabinets. Seeing all the different types of stains and the defects that come with doing it is just turn off. Painting is the way to go for me imo.

[@carverparkes2276]

I could definitely feel your pain at having to make that final decision and do want to thank you for your sacrifice

[@PaulScott_]

Art, a couple of questions that are purely information gathering: When would "you" use Shellac and why "dewaxed" Shellac? Thanks again for sharing your work, knowledge and experience and your positive attitude with us!!!!! :)

[@Wordsnwood]

You need DeWaxed shellac if you are going to put anything else on top of the shellac as otherwise it will not stick. Waxed is fine if you just put shellac on shellac. I have used shellac just on it's own, but it's not terribly strong, so I'd use it then for like a piece that is not handled much. Otherwise I used to use it under polyurethane a lot more when I was using this crystal-clear water-based poly, for the colour that the shellac added. Now that I use the oil-modified poly, I use the shellac a lot less. Like most finishing decisions, it's about personal aesthetic choices.

[@PaulScott_]

Art, thanks for the detailed response and have a great day! :)

[@seadawg4740]

How do you repair a poly stained table that gets small scratches?

[@Wordsnwood]

I'm not a refinishing expert... But Poly can be sanded down and re-applied. The thing to know and/or watch out for is if your table is (a) stained -- as you might sand through the stain and you'll have to try and match it. or (b) veneer, as in plywood -- as you might sand right through the veneer. But if you just want to touch up the poly itself, you should be able to just scuff up the poly, like with high-grit sandpaper and reapply. But again, I'd recommend visiting the library and looking up some refinishing books from places like Taunton Press or Fine Woodworking.

[@TokyoCraftsman]

Cherry plywood.... in my dreams! LOL I can only get Shina (basswood) or Luan plywood easily. Cheers!

[@Wordsnwood]

$86 for G2S 4x8 (1/4").... do you really hate me, now, Stu? ;-)

[@TokyoCraftsman]

Yeah, that is still cheap! I pay $18 for a 3x6 4mm plywood in the crap shina stuff.

[@liquidlen9391]

I agree with your choice (is oil mod poly the same as oil based poly?)

[@greatitbroke]

No its water based with oil modifiers.

[@liquidlen9391]

thanks Greg

[@vernonknight8611]

What is the purpose of shellac?

[@Wordsnwood]

There is no one answer... it can be used as a finish on it's own. Some people like it because it is quite natural. It also can be used as a barrier coat as it will stick to anything. So people will often use a shellac-based primer when painting an unfamiliar room, in case the finish is oil, as shellac will stick to oil finish, and then latex finish (waterbased will stick to shellac). Also depending on the shellac "cut" it can also impart a bit of colour , so you might use shellac to give a bit of amber colour to wood, and then cover it with totally clear waterbased finish, which gives no colour at all. And I've undoubtedly missed bits.

[@vernonknight8611]

@@Wordsnwood I know that the shellac primer is necessary over knot holes before painting, otherwise the paint won't stick to the knotholes.

[@dwied10]

If the shellac counted as one of your total coats then it wouldn't be any more work. Example one coat of shellac and two coats of poly versus three coats of poly.

[@Wordsnwood]

Fair point!

[@michaelcristofano5863]

How does india ink work on cherry?

[@Wordsnwood]

Never tried that. I think I'd pick a different wood if I wanted black. I've heard it works great on Ash or Maple.

[@phroz3n]

With the shellac/poly board, how many layers of each did you apply? Thanks.

[@Wordsnwood]

Every step was shown and described in the video. More details are in the article which is linked in the video description. 1 coat of shellac, 2 coats of poly.

[@IEnjoyCreatingVideos]

Nice video Art! Thanks for sharing your findings with us.👍😎JP

[@ronnakeil3313]

Nice

[@blackemmons]

Interesting as always Art. Thanks. JimE PS: With the cherry attributes you were mentioning I failed to hear the word "burning". :-)

[@Wordsnwood]

Glowing, shimmering, chatoyance, .... Okay? 😁

[@wood4sheep]

Nor smoking

[@HampsteadHomestead]

Thanks for posting this Art. Charles Neil has some videos on blotching and how to control it (he sells a product too, which I haven't tried yet...). In his video the results are very visible and I guess it's a matter of personal preference...

[@JackHenry1776]

The blotching is definitely not subtle.