Finland Chooses the F-35 | HX challenge for the Finnish Air Force | What does Russia think?

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The Finnish Air Force concludes its HX Challenge and has selected the F-35 as its deterrent from Russia. This follows exercises with NATO in Trident Juncture.
The ramifications of the F35 selection are significant for fighter aircraft manufacturers. Finland joins the ever-growing group of nations that are adopting the F35 over sometimes more geographically closer options such as the Saab Gripen, the Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon.
So how was the F35 Chosen? Watch the video as we take a deeper dive into the requirements, process, and selection.
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F22 Raptor footage courteously of Lockheed Martin:
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This video is an opinion editorial commentary.
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[@daginn896]

From Norway: Congrats Finland. Good pick. And you ordered 64? Soon you will have the most powerfull airforce in the Nordics. Norway only ordered 52 f-35, but then again - we need to uphold a navy with both frigates, corvettes and submarines, so we can't afford more f-35's. Proud of you guys.

[@ziko-Official]

Greetings from Finland 🇫🇮

[@mutkaluikkunen3926]

Another sad day for European defense manufacturing.

[@gabe333331]

@@mutkaluikkunen3926 Europeans make pistols, that’s good enough

[@ILSRWY4]

I'm American and I watched the F-35 develop literally in my backyard... I'm not afraid to admit F-35 is complete junk... Norway and Finland got that plane purely our of Politics.. Lockheed... enough said.

[@johnave4084]

@@ILSRWY4 really 😂

[@joenichols3901]

Much love for Finland from the USA

[@sepposavinainen2660]

In Finland we don't giva fuck what russia thinks. And this is what we choose. Thank you USA for good fighter for us!

[@SverkerSuper]

Wait until you get the bill ;)

[@foggyfrog1653]

@@SverkerSuper that usually happens

[@tonyvu2011]

@@SverkerSuper f35 is cheaper to buy and maintained than any other 4.5 or 5.0 jets inc. Russian and Chinese. F35 comes fully equipped and operational while others need to add modules like targeting pod, which is very expensive.

[@SverkerSuper]

@@tonyvu2011 It is however, massivley more expensive to pushase, maintain and use than the Gripen + the 2 GlobalEye that Its competing against. Since the parnership with the US is better to nurture that that of Sweden, just like any other competition involving US and Swedish aircraft Especially since the US itself realized that Stealth is meaningless (Next gen will more or less drop stealth for EWS capabilities)

[@tonyvu2011]

@@SverkerSuper you don't seem to follow F35's continuous development at all! EWS is actually F35's biggest strength due to its modular design, components and capabilities can be easily and quickly improved at lowest cost possible. For example, the new AN/ASQ-239 EWS module is being developed by BAE for F35 program at the cost of $440M and will take less than 2 yrs for completion. The EWS upgrade for the EA-18G Growler costs more than $2B and more than 5 yrs.

[@Krebssssssss]

Congrats Finland! From the US, it’ll be good to have another ally we can network with, especially in these trying times. Hopefully your admission into NATO can be expedited, as well.

[@vask3863]

Congrats Finns. Greece is next on the list to get the F-35A. They will work exceptionally together with the upgraded F-16V Block 72.

[@brettk9316]

Cool but how can Greece afford them though?

[@vask3863]

@@brettk9316 No leftist governments anymore, to run the economy to the ground.

[@brianjob3018]

@@vask3863 I second that, fellow believer in the capitalistic democracy.

[@vask3863]

@Jörgen Fredriksson Greeks themselves.

[@Verminator4]

I thought Greece was already committed to Rafale though

[@gregparrott]

Given Russia's invasion of Ukraine a little over two months following this post. Finland's consideration to join NATO was timely. Their decision to get the F-35 is interesting, as I would have expected that their European neighbors may feel slighted by that choice. The F-35 clearly has an edge in sensor fusion, integration with a huge array of weapons, situational awareness, interoperability with other platforms,. The F-35 will likely be the first to adopt some future weapons. For example, the Air Force has stated they were testing laser canons on jet fighters

[@christianvalentin5344]

For those that are dismissive of the F-35’s internal loadout vs a Typhoon or other Gen 4.5 jet, bear in mind that when Ivan is literally right next door it means much of Finland’s territory is covered by Russia’s air defense systems. A non stealth aircraft would have very little chance against that until those air defenses were suppressed.

[@kimmoj2570]

There is also export permit for 200 additional JASSMs. F35 and those, plus older JASSM stocks that are today carried by Hornets can make Russian AA crews life dangerous.

[@Kjjj2015]

XD they wont work in artic contion F-35 scrap!

[@olelain]

I don't think you understand what a stealth fighter is made for. It's made for being invisible until you attack. So typically an ideal fighter for countries whose aim is to actually attack foreign countries. Your (finland) goal is to defend your airspace, not to attack other countries. So the F35 was the worst choice for Finland. Once a F35 is discovered, it has not chance against a Rafale.

[@WellBattle6]

@@olelain How can you even defend against other jets when SAM would already be shooting at you without stealth? Everyone wants stealth fighters until next generation radars make 5th gen stealth obsolete.

[@Shrobo]

@@olelain You do realize everything that is wrong with your sentence? As soon as the stealth fighter is revealed it has no chance against a rafale? The problem with that is when the stealth is blown out of the water there's massive chance that the non stealth aircraft that is going versus the one with stealth is either having a missile coming towards it or is forced to defend.

[@chrisf4268]

The F-35 haters must be crying in their beer. 😭🍺😂😂😂🤣

[@duhni4551]

Leftists doesn't drink beer, that is too mainstream

[@Seitbp242]

imagine what markets "sour beer" would have.

[@kmmediafactory]

Take that bastards! Lightning for the win!

[@slurp3194]

Competition is important this just gives the authority over the world and force people into buying f 35s lol. Its not just a choice its the only possible choice.

[@chrisf4268]

@@slurp3194 you’re making assertions, back them up with some evidence and facts.

[@bryonslatten3147]

The USAF has tested the F-35 extensively in Alaska. Good to go for cold weather ops.

[@LRRPFco52]

The extreme cold climate testing all 3 JSF variants were subject to in Florida were far harsher than Alaska. Billie Flynn (one of the JSF test pilots who also flew Hornets, Typhoon, F-16 MATV, F-16E/F, RCAF Squadron Commander) talks about it in-detail, where he was literally flying the aircraft suspended inside of the huge climactic test chamber with sheets of ice and hail being fired at the aircraft, temps down to extreme lows, sand/wind/dust, rain, etc. Gripen has never been tested to these kinds of extremes. It’s just another marketing hype claim from Saab that doesn’t hold up well at all. USAF arctic weather operations in Alaska, Norway, and Iceland since the 1950s have seen far larger numbers of fighters based in those locations, with far greater numbers of sorties generated, with squadrons having far greater combat-experienced pilots, maintainers, ordnance, and air planners. The cold weather monopoly angle Sweden often cites is a non-starter vs the facts.

[@bryonslatten3147]

@@LRRPFco52 cool! (no pun intended)

[@Verminator4]

I think it makes sense for Finland. With borders right next to Russia, Finland would have to fight in the air, land and sea and as such you want a very capable fighter that can do everything and the F-35's the best fit for that currently on the market. The fact that Finland's airspace is fairly small means that the F-35's so-so top speed isn't a huge deal either.

[@arveduilastking546]

F-35 can challenge the Russian airdefences better then the Gripen.

[@connywestlund924]

@@arveduilastking546 yes if they're going to atack Russia that's the best choice

[@destarker1340]

Maybe it's not such a wise idea to place gen 5 planes with powerful technology next to your biggest enemy

[@Verminator4]

@@destarker1340 Where the hell else are you meant to put them?

[@LogieT2K]

@@destarker1340 the f-35 was designed form the start to be a international fighter

[@AlanSanchez-ww9qb]

Well, the F-35 would be my choice if my eastern neighbor had a penchant for invading its neighbors (Georgia, Ukraine, and in the past Poland, Finland, list goes on).

[@jari2018]

ad its only 14 year to its launch so sweden can still sell its Gripen G .... Its too late really -just buy Gripen today and get over it

[@fatstacksfatlips8708]

@@jari2018 Why waste money on an inferior product?

[@LRRPFco52]

@@jari2018 Gripen E/F have been in development for 15 years, still no production-ready standard. During H-X, Finnish observers asked one of the Gripen E test pilots, “How does this perform at night?” “We haven’t flown it at night yet.” Gripen is a sad joke and a scam the more you research it. Most of the perception on it is advertising and marketing hype, not actual performance capability. It scored dead last in this H-X challenge, and was more expensive than F-35A Block 4, more expensive than Super Hornet Block 3, which came in 2nd place.

[@savaii4menow]

“It was a tough race,” Finnish defense minister Antti Kaikkonen said during a press conference announcing the decision today. The company beat a crowded field of competitors, including the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale and Saab Gripen E. And it appears the F-35 defeated all comers handily. Maj. Gen. Pasi Jokinen, commander of the Finnish air force, said the F-35 came first or shared the top score in all mission areas. Overall, the jet scored 4.47 on the capability assessment, exceeding the 4.0 requirement. The next highest scorer achieved only a 3.81.

[@entity6609]

Source quote?

[@brianjob3018]

We thank you for your journalist-quality info.

[@Balnazzardi]

@Mk18 indeed its the only 5th gen fighter currently on international market so I think its honestly no brainer if the price is alright...which in this case it was for Finland atleast, USA clearly wanted Finland to choose F35s no matter what so they were willing to sell the planes and weapons at much lower price than they would have to some other partners

[@kk-gr3ly]

@@entity6609 It was on the Finnish Helsinginsanomat newspaper and on the Finnish television.

[@mensen4488]

@@Balnazzardi is that what you think or do you have a source? 10billion for 64 aircraft doesn't sound cheap

[@billjohansson88]

There is a difference between what the political government considers to be a good relationship and what the Finnish people consider to be. There are not many Finns who believe that the neighbor to the east is reliable and stable, as most people in the West know how the neighbor to the east reacted before the Finnish Winter War became a consequence. The effect of the peace that came about can still be seen 88 years later, the 10% of land has still not been given back to the Finnish people. Of these areas, there is some talk about the value of the Karelian Peninsula and the approximately 400,000 Finns who were evacuated to the rest of Finland as a so-called displaced population. To be forced to give up 10% of land because the Russian leader is paranoid and insane does not justify the fact that today 88 years later, we don´t see a hint of willingness to rectify the mistakes on the part of Russia. Add to that the victims who lost their lives on both sides, that Russia does not even state in its schooling Who started the war (Russia) and above all, tell the truth to all relatives who have not yet received an end to their grief, as there is no one grave to visit. The only thing that is found is a memorial to all the dead Russians who were buried in mass graves by the Finnish military since the stench in the spring of 40 was unbearable for those who stayed in the areas. I wish all Finns good luck with their purchases and I hope you had a great deal that benefited you both in the short and long term. With love from Sweden

[@sotakoira1390]

I'm just one Finn, but we don't really even want Karelia back anymore. It's poor, underdeveloped and full of russians. North sea access would be way more interesting, but also shares same problems. Also the people who were displaced from Karelia weren't always fully fledged Finns (sadly). There was a lot of prejudice towards them, thou nowadays they identify as Finns mostly as far as I know and have no wish to move back to Karelia. They have their lives and homes here in the current day Finland now. But it's true that the general sentiment is that there's no extra love for Russia because of our history.

[@billjohansson88]

@@sotakoira1390 To hear that Karelia as an area is poor and underdeveloped is not surprising. Here in Sweden, it is mostly taught that Karelian Isthmus and the city of Viborg have been an important and strategic area for both Sweden, Finland and Russia through our common history. Although our history with the neighbor to the East dates back as far as the 13th century. For the Swedish part, Western Karelia was of value as the area was a historical Province of Sweden. Following the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the long-silenced debate over returning Karelia from Russia to Finland resurfaced in Sweden and Finland according to our re-creation of history.

[@suppo6092]

Always liked F-35. It's cute design and should have been called the Bumblebee imo :D

[@SanctuaryLife]

It’s a sophisticated and chunky yet sleek

[@apex_blue]

Actually which it’s interconnected abilities it kinda does have a hivemind

[@alex54313]

A beautiful airplane is an airplane that flies well For the F35 it's neither one nor the other

[@weasle2904]

@@alex54313 According to actual pilots the F-35 flies very well, apparently equal to the F-16's agility which is extremely good. Not that it even needs maneuverability like that due to modern BVR combat and it's stealth capability. However it's nice to know the plane is still capable in all regards.

[@sakku1040]

su 57 design over this imo

[@saine414]

Now they gonna have the most advanced jet out there...💪

[@harrihypponen590]

Yea, is it like the Tom Cat in Top Gun..? Red Baron

[@ilipoinasu8991]

b.s

[@Frog89mad]

Dont make the SU-57 fans angry :P

[@moisesojeda1085]

@@Frog89mad Su57 has no customers 😂

[@jamiew1286]

If you're only going to buy 1 type of jet, I honestly don't believe the f35 is the best choice. I'd go for the rafale.

[@leifandersson8754]

Being a Swede I understand their choice mainly from a political aspect. Being neighbour with Putin having good relations with US is vital and this deal will strengthen that relation. Very happy that we are lucky enough to have both Finland and the Baltic Sea as buffer from Putin.

[@Honken55]

Well they also need to have good relations with russia 😉

[@Honken55]

@@Kamellion They have and have good relations with Russia since 91.... A lot of people are more worried about USA going all woke and ruin the world that way than of Russia starting wars...

[@pereklund9172]

@@TammoKis agreed. Usa? Never heard of it.

[@TammoKis]

@@Honken55 Robert Dalsjö, svensk försvarsanalytiker : "Samtidigt anser Dalsjö att Finland anser att det är viktigare att fördjupa samarbetet med USA än med Sverige. - Det är så de (finländarna) alltid har tyckt om det. Och även vi anser att Förenta staterna är viktigare än Finland, men det säger vi inte högt."

[@Honken55]

@@TammoKis yes but its a big mistake. USA is less freedom than Russia these days... to much capitalism for its own good. Land of the free... lol

[@ChevyBM]

Finland choose the best fighter available!

[@duhni4551]

Naturally. We can't afford to buy crap, considering who our neighbor is. Not to mention that with F-35 we got access to weapons that are light years ahead of rest of the world, actually our government made quite huge order right away now that the F-35 was officially chosen =)

[@duhni4551]

@@Leo_Dzen Russia has aimed nukes to Finland for decades, nothing would change because of NATO in that regard.

[@duhni4551]

@@Leo_Dzen It is public information by Russia, feel free to read it from anywhere you want, i believe they teach you how to read in St. Petersburg, yes?

[@LRRPFco52]

@Portwave Nowhere even close to $1 Trillion has been spent on the entire JSF program to-date. $62 billion for development of 3 variants, now acquisition is in its very early stages wit “only” 735+ delivered airframes out of thousands. USAF, USMC, and USN program of record is for 2700 A/B/C variants over decades of manufacturing, most of which obviously has not happened. Any article that talks about $1 Trillion is designed to make people think it’s more expensive than it is, when in fact JSF is more affordable than any other Western fighter on the market right now, and driving the unit costs of eastern fighters way up as well. Imagine a stealth platform with internal Anti-Ship Missiles now vs Exocet, and Exocet becomes obsolete. I wouldn’t mention any legacy platform or weapon when looking at the emerging world of evolutionary 5th Gen capabilities.

[@daveershumluc781]

F-22 Raptor and soon, F-22 super raptor 2023

[@artistjoh]

F35 - brilliant choice. It is greatly appreciated by every country that operates it, however, the real testament to its qualities is the way Israel has adopted it. To "prove" the aircraft, they flew one across several countries and over Tehran and returned to Israel without being detected. They then announced what they had done. Apparently the head of Iranian armed forces was sacked as a result. Since then Israel has been able to bomb targets within Syria without being detected by Russian radar systems. The real value of an aircraft is found in how it performs in combat and so far the F35 is proving to be the best aircraft in the sky. By a large margin. Congratulations Finland.

[@artistjoh]

@whoupz thesoups Yes, both countries are very small and both with very dangerous neighbors. If any country has a huge need for stealth it is Finland and Israel both. The Israeli experience suggests that Finland will be very glad it invested in the F35. I can see them eventually buying some of the STOVL versions as well for improvised remote location use.

[@fahimrind9714]

yeah i'm 100% sure that didn't happen, why would you fly a jet over to the enemy without a mission in mind? what if it had a mechanical problem, or it was detected or anything else that can go wrong did, then iran and china have the wreckage of 20 years a trillion dollars worth of tech to examine and reverse engineer.

[@artistjoh]

@@fahimrind9714 You either don't read the news, or have forgotten. The story was first reported in the Jerusalem Post in March 2018, and in Kuwait in July of that year. It has never been officially confirmed, although Netanyahu has said that while Israel has the ability to fly to Tehran undetected, Iran cannot do the same. It is easy to google "Israeli F35 flies over Iran" and you will get lots of articles about it. As to not having good reason to do it, it appears that Israel has been flying missions to photograph Iranian military installations and to test the capabilities of Iran's Russian radar systems. I would say your 100% certainty that it didn't happen should be more like 0% certainty now.

[@fahimrind9714]

@@artistjoh yeah read a news article by a newspaper known to leak bs for propaganda purposes, and the paper said it flew to iran and back without refueling twice which is impossible without carrying external fuel tanks which would hurt it's stealth badly. Also why fly to take pictures of their military installations? Satellites are used for that. So while not 100% sure, I'd say north of 90%. I doubt the best way to test rader capabilities is to fly your most expensive most advanced weapon into their land. Weapons are much more scarier in your enemies minds.

[@fahimrind9714]

@whoupz thesoups so they use air tankers and a very expensive stealth fighter to do the same thing satellites can do. Yeah makes sense

[@pullingweeds]

I suspect Canada will do the same as well.

[@greateraviationgl91]

Nope, the Canadians will make a new generation of Arrow Gripens.

[@nytrol2138]

I would not think so as the gripen can handle the weater while the F-35 could not even handle some lighting strikeing it without saying Guess i'll die now😵

[@jamiewhichelo9983]

@@nytrol2138 literally every aircraft is told not to fly in lightning. Check out C.W Lemoines video on it, he was along someone in a hornet when the gut got struck by lightning and was forced to land and go to hospital.

[@pindot787]

@@nytrol2138 Funnily enough, when the finns try to test flight the gripen, it is not allowed to fly on that particular day because the weather is too cold. lol

[@pindot787]

@@nytrol2720 exaggerate much? no f35 will be fire bomb striking by lightning. yes every fighter would be grounded, it is just because its f35 it suddenly becomes newsworthy.

[@Joker-yw9hl]

My comment a year ago on this subject: "I suppose there are 2 ways of looking at this. First, what is the best value fighter for the job required. But second, what would Russia most want Finland NOT to have? The second question is perhaps the most important. I would imagine the Gripen suits Finland best yet Russia would probably fear it least. Russia wouldn't want F35s and Rafales in Finland. Or Eurofighters, really. I'm a big proponent of the Gripen for the sheer value and versatility in tough conditions but I really do think the Russians would fear it least" I would say Finland choosing the F35 shows they're taking their defence very seriously, and they have to. I did think they would choose the Gripen but advocated they purchase a handful of F35s too

[@jakefatman4876]

Why Gripen: Sweden as a military power a joke. I hope we choose the best for us. 🇫🇮

[@teddy.d174]

They absolutely made the wisest choice. Excellent take Joker.

[@CorporalCookie]

Gripens odds of winning unfortunately went down during their tests as they lacked certain functions that Saab was advertising them to have when delivered, but the rules were that capabilities that did not exist during the tests wouldn't be considered at all.

[@DOI_ARTS]

Grippins maintenace are so sketchy, I mean they can make these jets but maintenance people and parts are hard to procure, not patronizing US made at all but if you have a cheap jet that's not good to fly then you might as well put it in the museum. And at least with the F35 you have the detterent you need psychological and hardware.

[@tyrantfox7801]

Wouldn't that make it easy for Russia to study them more easily?

[@bambang303378]

Super Hornet is awesome and maybe it was great choice for Finland, but F-35 is the best indeed. The decision was no brainer.

[@lighthunter9727]

Excellent purchase! Thanks for the info by the way ✈

[@savaii4menow]

According to this Finland report, The Rafale and the Eurofighter could NOT even make it to the final part of the war game. The F-35 scored 4.47 points in the performance comparison and the second-time fighter 3.81 points. The requirement was 4 points. The maximum score was 5 points. In the last stage of the war games, there was a full-scale war against the enemy. So the Army and Navy were also involved, says Brigadier General Juha-Pekka Keränen , Air Force Chief of Staff, to Iltalehti. *****Military performance was the only area in the entire HX project where candidates were scored and ranked.+++++{ "Only Lockheed Martin's F-35, Boeing's Super-Hornet, and Saab's Gripen E would survive this phase."} - It assessed counter-air operations (air defense), counter-land operations (from air to ground), counter-sea operations (from air to sea), long-range influence, and intelligence and ability to show goals, says Keränen, Chief of Staff. According to Keränen, the goal was to assess how well the candidates are doing in different job types - How likely is it to be able to complete the task and survive back, Keränen says. You can READ the FULL Report here. www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/51c624ab-d48b-4dcb-81d0-292c6124692a FORCE Technology

[@atlet1]

Thank you for the link! The descision was based on politics and the war games was arranged to ger the desired results. They have learned from earlier debacle how to deceive the people.

[@tristanpaulpestano544]

@@atlet1 lmao. The only politics is the Finnish politicians trying to pick the Gripen early on. Also, you are too conspiratorial to say it is bias. Hey, maybe try to say that to Corporal Frisk. He have a slight Gripen bias so you can’t accuse him of being bias.

[@alex54313]

So whatever The Finns asked for 4 F-35s, they only got two and of the two there was one that was broken down These war games was a bad joke These were only organized to look pretty but the choice was already made the choice is America Like in the Netherlands

[@FinneganFookface]

So glad we decided on the best jets. The F-35 are a fear factor to consider by agressors. Brilliant machines

[@Davoodoox1]

This will just piss off the russians and now they will counter react to be able to study the planes. This is not good and there will be alot of close incidents in the near future when these planes are in active duty. And sooner or later those close incidents will become too close ...

[@elgordomilanga9895]

+800 errors and defects on the system of the F-35 (all the variants) Is a good aircraft? I am not against the purchase, but I think they could choose other aircraft, at least a 4.5 generation.

[@johanlassen6448]

@@elgordomilanga9895 800 errors is an old rumour. Stop living in 2011. Finland just had the biggest and most comprehensive evaluation to date, with wargames included. Guess what: the F-35 outperformed all the competition.

[@Speed_7545]

@@Davoodoox1 You really don't understand the relationship between Finland and Russia at all.

[@CRAZYHORSE19682003]

@@elgordomilanga9895 If you look at any other aircraft when they were introduced they had similar defect lists. It is just how the military writes reports.

[@calcrappie8507]

Finland made the right decision like Switzerland. 5th gen for the price of (long in the tooth) 4th gen equipment. You can't beat the high production rate price of the F-35A when it comes to bang for the buck.

[@duhni4551]

It is not the jet alone either, with F-35 we got access to weapon systems that wouldn't be possible otherwise.

[@allezchosetruc]

Finland and Switzerland made a political decision only and not according to their needs. Their need is an interceptor, the F35 IS FIRST A STEALTH BOMBARDIER ...

[@calcrappie8507]

@@allezchosetruc If Finland ever gets into a war then "interceptor" becomes useless. Canadians act the same way. They need "interceptors". Well, what happens when they shoot back? What happens when you no longer control your airspace because you bought second rate equipment? F-35 can intercept, but it will also take out anything up there to the tune of 78-1 kill ratio.

[@duhni4551]

@@allezchosetruc Actually no, you are completely wrong. The needs are quite specified, they have been the same before and will be the same after F-35. F-35 isn't stealth bomber, B-2 is.

[@trolleriffic]

@@allezchosetruc Nobody makes interceptors any more and the only one in service as far as I know is the MiG-31.

[@maliburallye350]

Excellent for Finland!!!👌🏻👌🏻

[@junkookbts1273]

F-35s are selling like hotcakes. Rafales have also done pretty good as of late. Russian aircraft on the other hand are being rejected.

[@LogieT2K]

If i had to guess its probably due to a lack of innovation on their part. Most new types from russia are just updated flanker varients, the flanker is a good plane but you can only push a design so far, that new checkmate thing if its anygood might swing the ballence back a bit tho

[@kitsugi3020]

If the Su-75 holds up to it's promises, Russia will see a big BIG improvement in fighter jet exportations

[@pindot787]

@@kitsugi3020 that is a really really BIG IF, since their flagship 5th gen the SU57 isnt doing that great.

[@MrDanboyd3]

@@kitsugi3020 surely your just a Bootlicker

[@MrDanboyd3]

@@pindot787 and nobody is buying Crap from them , also

[@reaality3860]

When stealth tactics were employed, the F-35 scored a 78 to 1 kill ratio against all other war planes during a combined US and Allies Red-Flag 2020 fighter training exercises. This is total domination!

[@billdeslauriers4552]

The key phrase here is “stealth tactics”, which means BVR (no dogfighting), and weapons load-out restricted to internal stores only (a couple of AIM’s each). As soon as you add external hard points, you’re “painted” on enemy radar, and you’re now a target. Same with dogfighting. The F35 was designed to be a composite, meeting the needs of 3 different armed forces, so doesn’t have the wing loading capabilities to take on a “near peer” enemy in a an excruciating G force dogfight. In short, ya, in BVR fight an F35 can take out a couple enemy adversaries, then goes home to re-load!

[@captainseyepatch3879]

@@billdeslauriers4552 Actually even when using non-stealth loads, it actually did fine in fighter traning.

[@johanlassen6448]

@@billdeslauriers4552 The F-35 is more maneuverable than the F-16 and additionally has DAS, allowing it 360 degree IR detection. It is literally the only aircraft that could shoot behind itself at WVR (if the missiles could do 180 degrees).

[@nissekarlsson3172]

Then they have not met griffin e

[@billdeslauriers4552]

@@johanlassen6448 ya, I can see why it would like to shoot behind! All those adversaries on it’s 6.

[@EduardoBicelisGarcia]

Great work!

[@frankcrawford416]

They knew just how good the 35 is. Its performance in real life. It is always held back at airshows.

[@olivierfaber8478]

You forgot Switzerland, Belgium and Italy , Leonardo builds Dutch F35's at the moment..Poland also bought 32 Lightnings..

[@PilotPhotog]

Indeed, and thanks for commenting. Here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/opjbnJyZfdytkNE

[@johndoe62804]

We already hear F-35 haters crying

[@Chuck59ish]

That means more used F/A-18s on the market for Canada until we decide what we're going to do for our new fighter.

[@4jqxc]

Canada's backpeddling on the F35 is baffling. They helped fund it! Granted their are political elements within Canada who want Canada to not purchase any new fighters at all despite despite fact that the f18's need to be replaced by 2030... so there's that.

[@Chuck59ish]

@@4jqxc The only thing I can think of is that when the Conservative government originally signed the development contract the penalty for pulling out would be huge, leaving the current Liberal government no other way out than to continue paying for the F-35 development. Boeing has played into the Conservatives hands by going after Bombardier and losing the lawsuit in the American courts, which also means when the RCAF replaces the CP-140 Aurora, it won't buy the Boeing P-8 Poseidon Patrol aircraft either.

[@Chuck59ish]

@@Albertkallal And now there are almost as many Canadian CF-188s in Europe as there were in the 80s and 90s when CFB Baden-Solingen was operation with the NATO deployments, they'll need all the spare parts they can get their hands on.

[@vertie2090]

@@Albertkallal Norway had F-16s, not F/A-18s like Finland and the Switzerland

[@joekey8464]

why would a first world country equip its pilots with second hand jet fighters, experienced pilots are worth more than their aircraft, you would want the best for them

[@hilairelaplume1616]

I got such poor reviews for the first 5 to 8 years it was released to the public but I think we all forgot it’s not only how advanced a complicated it was but that they were consistently working to fix the problems and has and now the F-18 of 16 pilots that have flown the F 35 have nothing but good things to say about Its sensor fusion and Ease of use under stress conditions

[@MrGunderfly]

i can now realistically see the f35 surviving the "jack of all trades master of none" fallacy. (which is an industrial era truism-fallacy that has permeated all industries and pursuits putting specialisation over generalism, ignoring what makes us great as humans ; generalists.), i think that anything this different from jet systems that have gone before is bound to meet with the "shock of the new". its procurement model sucks to high heaven. but its philosophy of use is sound. (Note that so many species that have over-specialised, have gone extinct with the slightest change in environment). adaptability and generalism are a key "killer app" for this system. doubters beware! Fighter jets are entering an evolutionary realm where body plan matters only as much sensors and intelligence.

[@donlove3741]

Jack of all trades master of none but always better than a master of one.

[@weasle2904]

@@donlove3741 Aye modern air combat requires an extremely wide array of offensive and defensive systems. That's why the F-35 is so untouchable right now.

[@juanarce6900]

Great for both Finland, and Lockheed Martin. Amazing plane by the way. Love the graphics on your videos Juan. 👍

[@PilotPhotog]

Thank you so much Juan😀

[@juanarce6900]

@@PilotPhotog You got it man, thanks for sharing your knoledge with us; you do an amazing job.

[@Karl-Benny]

so no more road take of and landing Easy target IMO

[@ozairakhtarcom]

I think your video cleared a lot of doubt. This shows how much Finland is independent.

[@tommcclelland119]

Excellent and informative video

[@flyblu80]

Good for Italy. Partly assembled in Italy

[@onnisonni1876]

I think it is only a strong rumour at this point, nobody has said the last and final word yet. Allthough I wouldn't be suprised at all when they announce it officially that our next plane is F35

[@aritakalo8011]

Yeah. This is all based on newspaper Iltalehti saying they have an anonymous little bird who whispered to their ear "the top pick is F-35". To begin this is about the recommendation report. Though government is likely to follow, it doesn't have to and does additional economic, industrial, political and diplomatic calculations. Since none of this is "this plane can actually fly and fight, rest are duct taped together junk". All 5 finalists are competent planes just with different possible focuses, strengths and weaknesses. None of them are utterly horrible planes. As such even more, if the final top pick separation is not big (maybe is maybe isn't I haven't seen the report and it is report about *specific fit to Finnish conditions and doctrine*, so one can't just look at other evaluations blindly as template) those factors might come in play. *As such this is rumors about the recommendation of military for the basis of the final government decision* . Not even rumors of the final decision.

[@masaus90]

It is not rumour, it is what Finnish Defence Forces are recommending for the Finnish parlament to choose! So it is unlikely that Finnish parlament runs over Defence Forces; it is of course possible but unlikely.

[@onnisonni1876]

@@masaus90 so you base this on the news in Iltalehti? It is not the official announcement

[@dvlrnr]

It was just confirmed by the Finnish government.

[@onnisonni1876]

@@dvlrnr true that

[@deadphone9639]

As a Swede, I believe our brothers and sisters did the right choise selecting the F35.. for geopolitical reasons.

[@weasle2904]

Honestly the F-35 is just so much better than all other internationally available fighter jets that it's a no brainer. Especially due to the fact the F-35 is far cheaper than most of it's competitors, despite being superior in nearly all metrics. I've been extremely impressed with how much success the F-35 program has had.

[@flightmaster1213]

Hey man, we got your back

[@deadphone9639]

@@flightmaster1213 Even if we're not in NATO, I believe there is some kind of agreement between our nations :)

[@lucassmith1886]

@@deadphone9639 absolutely... The u.s. would never in a million years attack Sweden... Hell even typing it here sounds weird lol

[@deadphone9639]

@@lucassmith1886 who said US would attack Sweden? 🤣 Sweden have shared military equipment with US so it would indeed be weird. We are talking about Finland selecting the F35 buddy :)

[@sailor5026]

Excellent presentation.

[@PilotPhotog]

Thank you kindly!

[@TammoKis]

"Patria, the Finnish state-owned defence equipment company, owns 49,9 % of Kongsberg Aviation Maintance Service (KAMS) . It is responsible for the maintenance of Norwegian Air Force aircraft and helicopters, including the maintenance of the F-35. Patria also has maintenance operations in Belgium, which has ordered F-35s. Kams can play a role in maintaining these, too. In addition, Patria owns 50 % of Nammo, which also supplies entities related to the weapon systems used in F-35s."

[@jjt1093]

Not always a good thing when the Finnish Government owns too much of private industries

[@allualex2606]

@@jjt1093 Why?

[@jjt1093]

@@allualex2606 it's not

[@allualex2606]

@@jjt1093 explain?

[@JaM-R2TR4]

golf ball RCS is 2005 RCS estimate when F35 was still a prototype.. serial planes are much more stealthy.. more than F22.. they are 10 years more modern, have more advanced stealth coating and their shape was designed using modern computers to get the most effective RCS possible...

[@andrewhomo2461]

Well, there is a really big scepticism about how far these characteristics are true.

[@andrewhomo2461]

@Varangian Guard Were you there? You will just believe wharever they say to hype up the aircraft.

[@andrewhomo2461]

@Varangian GuardOk. No matter. I guess we will soon see the equivalents of f 35 coming from both Russia and China soon. The global energy crises poured rivers of finances on Russia, so they have abundance of funds. I guess, Su 75 in top configuration will rival f 35, while being cheaper.

[@fatstacksfatlips8708]

@@andrewhomo2461 Su-75 will never be better than F-35 while costing less, Russia’s electronic and semiconductor industry is inferior to the West. Same situation with Su-57, supposed to be on par with the F-22 for a fraction of the price yet zero export customers and only 2 serial units have been produced since 2009.

[@angryfinn7737]

@@fatstacksfatlips8708 You're slightly wrong on one point. In semiconductor industry, Russia has gone to the stone ages long ago.

[@Timo8.2.]

f-35 got 4.47 points and the second plane got 3.81 points in the competition

[@entity6609]

Please source so I can have this official info.

[@Timo8.2.]

@@entity6609 I don't know if my comment was deleted because it had a link or not but if it was just search F-35 Iltalehti Suomen uusi hävittäjä on yhdysvaltalainen f-35. It's in the 5th paragraph

[@entity6609]

@@Timo8.2. alright, thx. Your og comment got deleted, i noticed that too

[@PerSon-xg3zr]

@@entity6609 KZbin destroys comments with links in them likely because of spam bots constantly spamming links in other videos so KZbin used a cheap solution.

[@guptatroll2581]

Spain, Canada, Czech Rep., Hungary, Saudí Arabia, Greece and Qatar are next. Can someone tell me how many countries have bought Suck-57???? 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

[@johnosbourn4312]

None, except for Mother Russia.

[@jb76489]

@@johnosbourn4312 even they only had two and already crashed one

[@andrewhomo2461]

Well, su 75 Checkmate will change this sequence. Saudi Arabia, other Arab countries highly unlikely will get f 35, due to Israel's opposition. Middle East is a perfect export region for su-75, it it will achieve its planned capabilities. 76 su-57 on order, 4 will be delivered this December.

[@jb76489]

@@andrewhomo2461 again, Russia cannot make su57 even for itself, the Middle East isn’t going to see any

[@Jason-..-]

Greece will probably be the next buyer, around 24 f 35s

[@maximus7809]

Very nice machine. Gratz

[@dirkusmaximus9268]

So they wil have F-18 Hornets (or super) and F-35 ? And now nicely with Sweden in NATO. The safest with this war. Putins claim towards Finland not to enter the NATO shows just his crazy mind.

[@fosterslover]

Tech and situational awareness is king. Pilots love the F-35

[@Karl-Benny]

A $14 billion software upgrade, which is being installed on US F-35 fighter jets, is “immature, deficient and insufficiently tested,” the Pentagon’s testing office said in a report

[@johnosbourn4312]

Hey, do you have the non metric numbers for the F-35's max internal, and external weapons loadouts?

[@GrizzAxxemann]

Freedom Units>Degrees Science

[@LRRPFco52]

F-35A carries 18,200lb of internal fuel. Block 4 will have 3 ejector rack stations in each weapons bay, whereas current Block 3F JSF only have 2 for A2A weapons. Block 4 will be able to carry 6 AAMs internally, maybe more depending on Peregrine/HALFRAAM. The heavy ejector rack loading currently in the weapons bays hard points can mount 2,500lb weapons on each. The door hinge gap location ejector racks on stations 5 & 7 for AIM-120 currently are rated for 350lbs each. So total current max internal weapons mass is: 350x2 BVRAAM 2500x2 Heavy weapons 5700lbs internal weapons + 18,200lbs internal fuel GAU-22/A Gun weighs 230lbs without the feed system 180 rounds of 25mm weighs 270lbs BRU-68/A Ejector racks weigh 86lbs each for up to 2000lb bombs. LAU-147/A Ejector racks for AIM-120 internal carriage weigh 63lbs each. Assuming 2x2500 heavy weapons, it comes to just under 25,000lb of internal weapons and fuel. In Air-to-Air configuration, it means 4x 335lb-350lb BVRAAMs, not 2 & 2 A2A/A2G. That leaves all of the external weapons stations open, which amount to 7 more hardpoints.

[@TammoKis]

Ministry of Defence Finland. 10.12.2021 14.37 | Published in English on 10.12.2021 at 14.40 PRESS RELEASE : "The procurement contains 64 F-35A Block 4 multi-role fighters, substantial and versatile weaponry tailored for the operating circumstances, required training and sustainment solutions, other related systems as well as sustainment and maintenance services until the end of 2030."

[@snarf9455]

The F35 was the best fighter we had and I am happy we picked it.

[@alex54313]

The best LOL it is the 600 bug plane

[@snarf9455]

@Portwave so what plane do you think is better? The gripen? The eurofighter? How come most countries that have been offered the F35 have gladly accepted it

[@LRRPFco52]

@Portwave The biggest scam of western fighters right now is the Saab Gripen E/F. The only reason they secured a contract with Brazil was because they bribed the Brazilian President with $740,000, which deposited into his bank account after he left office.

[@tonyvu2011]

@@alex54313 that's why f35 is good, it's so scrutinised by so many airforces and flown so many hours that the errors are discorvered and fixed. Other jets have many errors that are not known until too late.

[@alex54313]

@@tonyvu2011 One bug fixed 10 bug appear

[@Bald_Zeus]

I really can't see how the F-35A is viable for Finlands needs but the experts in their defence forces know better than me so I trust them on their judgement.

[@Pyhantaakka]

Us online warriors really dont have the relevant information. Therefore its good that there is a proper process for deciding this, instead of just deciding by popularity contest.

[@duhni4551]

Well, one of the key elements in Finnish army is unified combat systems. So what one sees, everyone sees. F-35 now allows all weapon systems to attack any target while F-35 targets them, just for one example (F-35 can also launch those other systems) Also F-35 allows our army to attack against Iskanders and S-400 and S-500 systems which are deemed one of the largest threats Russia has against our army, this would not be possible with 4'th gen jets in same level of safety as it is with F-35, so what this means is that our army values the life of the pilots more than the price tag on the jet. There are numerous other reasons, but i guess these 2 examples gives you some general idea. In short: F-35 is support jet as much as it is protecting the air space and for that role it was best choice.

[@itsjustanapple5452]

I would still like to hear your argument about why f35 would not fit.

[@weasle2904]

@@duhni4551 The F-35 offered so much tactical superiority in a possible war against Russia they couldn't possibly ignore it, even if it's not the most popular political choice it was the obvious choice in a modern war.

[@EiraAimo]

@@weasle2904 There were some opinions about what country (fighter) should we choose and what Russia would think about it. Like Gripen or Eurofighter would be safe choise politically, but we wanted the best fighter available and thats it, no matter what Russia or any other country thinks about that. We can't let that kind of "pressure" affect when it comes to performance of our defence forces. People tend to forget that we have US fighters allready and Finland and US have been working together with fighters/aviation since early 90's. Lockheed Martin just takes over the BAE.

[@JeffDM]

It's notable that Canada dropped Super Hornet not on any technical grounds but because Boeing gave the Bombardier CS100 program grief by lobbying for excessive tarrifs. I think eventually the tarrifs were withdrawn but the damage was done.

[@rowanyuh6326]

F-35 is an incredibly powerful aircraft all these acquisitions prove it is best for any mission possible ruined gripens chances everywhere 😭

[@xyzaero]

There is just nothing comparable to the F-35 on the global fighter market !!

[@pasimaenpaa2360]

You call f35 as a fighter??? Gripen, super hornet, rafale, eurofighter, migs, su planes and even chinese fighters would have been better options.

[@pasimaenpaa2360]

And, btw, those planes are fighters, which f35 isn't.

[@weasle2904]

@@pasimaenpaa2360 The F-35 would not only destroy all of those fighters easily in combat, but the F-35 is also far superior for strike fighting, bombing, and SEAD. This is on top of being cheaper than 4.5 gen fighters. That's why they're selling thousands of them already.

[@CrayonEater255]

@@pasimaenpaa2360 it literally is

[@CrayonEater255]

@@pasimaenpaa2360 F35 is a fighter, by that logic the Gripen isn’t a fighter…

[@FirstDagger]

6:05 Mk 20 Rockeye is out of service and was replaced by CBU-87/97 etc so you are using legacy data.

[@PilotPhotog]

Fair point and thanks for commenting!

[@jenseninsulation2202]

Do touch screens respond to a laser? Could a fixed directional laser be attached to a pilots helmet for contact with a cockpit screen?

[@willv2746]

If so that would be extremely cool, but probably classified. I do know that the helmets do retinal tracking for looking at displays, so theoretically they might... but hard to actually know

[@squadman3376]

Nothing good comes easy.....and here it is !!

[@frankcrawford416]

So glad. I always had faith it would, almost 8 years ago I believe. And here it is, F35 is a shining star!

[@appa609]

So goes Canada as well

[@guesser__2232]

Lmao just wait we gonna buy their old hornets 😭

[@Killjoy45]

Welcome to Finland, F-35. We've been expecting you. As for you Sweden: 3rd place isn't all too bad for Gripen. Look at it this way, you did better than Eurofighter or Rafale. Still though tack men nej tack.

[@pereklund9172]

It was never a competition. These decisions are political. The Gripen was in the race to make things look "legit". Same thing will happen in Canada.

[@fatstacksfatlips8708]

@@pereklund9172 Cope harder, F-35 is better than the Gripen.

[@fatstacksfatlips8708]

@Portwave Says a lot about the Gripen when this “trillion dollar failure that is the laughing stock of the aeronautic community” beat the Gripen in every tested metric. Saying that Finland bought F-35s over Gripen’s because of political pressure is baseless. Joe Biden did not threaten the Finnish, take another hit of copium. Can I have your source for 1 of the F-35s being defective?

[@Honken55]

@@fatstacksfatlips8708 Its not about threats its what you offer in sub deals. Like Sweden did in SA and Brazil.... 😀

[@billjohansson88]

As a Swede, I am glad that you chose to make your purchases according to your needs and wishes. It will be interesting to see how we can develop and integrate your new toys in our collaboration.

[@MarvelousSeven]

I really thought they were going to go with the Gripen, but guess when you're right next door to Soviet...er... I mean, Russia and all their S-300/400s, stealth offered only by the F-35 makes sense to go with.

[@leeannepolvi9440]

Hey Justin, here's some more f18s for Canada to buy.

[@Orphican]

Yeah between this and Ukraine moving closer to NATO I can see why Russia might be concerned.

[@discostuchannel]

Well as somebody who plays DCS and reads online articles, I believe…

[@timh36]

Comment of the day, nice 👍

[@BMF6889]

While Germany, France, Spain, and UK. are working on a 6th Gen fighter, it will likely take 15 -20 years to become fully operational. Meanwhile, as the video says, the F-35 in fully operational and flying with many allied nations. Also, the US Air Force has already announced that a prototype 6th Gen stealth fighter is already flying along with 4 6th Gen B-21 stealth bombers. This means that the US will be flying mostly 6th Gen stealth fighters and bombers at least a decade earlier than the European stealth fighter. I also believe that the US and Australia will be first to use operational stealth Loyal Wingman Drones with the F-35 and B-21. I understand Europe's logic for building their own 6th Gen stealth fighter. They need to maintain the ability to produce high technology aircraft rather than be reliant on foreign fighters.. And a mix of stealth fighter types will be useful if a confrontation with Russia develops.

[@scottnj2503]

Tog your turn of phrase..."deter foreign attackers" is a nuance understated. Historically and present, the treat is from the east. That coupled with Finland's passed mixed loyalties vis a via weapons procurement, as you point out, is significant. The choice of the F-35 is a benchmark development in armament power positioning in the developing geopolitical situation in Europe. That said, keeping in mind my comments on RCAF pending choice between the Grippen and Lightning. Finland's choice is significant and may have bearing on RCAF choice.

[@LRRPFco52]

RCAF already chose F-35A long ago, then the foreign-propped Trudeau ran his campaign platform against JSF, to help delay its implementation for NORAD. JSF operating out of Canada changes the Maritime Patrol environment for Russia in the Arctic Ocean because of the sensor suite and connectivity of JSF platforms, especially as RCAF integrates with USAF-Alaska and US Air National Guard Vermont. What are the first 2 bases to have operational F-35A Squadrons after Hill AFB near the Ogden Logistics Depot? AK and VT. Canada has already invested over $631 million into JSF, and has over 20 companies in Canada manufacturing high quality subcomponents and systems that go into every F-35, which has thousands of orders that only keep increasing. The Gripen is nothing but a side clown show in the discussion about RCAF’s next fighter. Add to the fact that Gripen E/F costs way more than F-35A, and it’s dead on arrival. You can outfit an F-35A with a huge and complete weapons suite with all A2A, new generation A2G, penetrators, plus all the spares and support for F-35A and still have $26 million left over for the price of a single Gripen E Program Cost. Imagine going to Parliament arguing for a low-capability, pathetic thrust-to-weight ration, reduced weapons payload fighter than your current one, at $52 million Unit Program Cost higher than F-35A Unit Program Cost. Even the most liberal MPs will be scratching their heads.

[@scottnj2503]

@@LRRPFco52 right on. Thanks for sharing with me. I flew coord ops in USN P-3's during 80's with CP-140's. I was envious of the CP-140 vs the P-3 and admired the RCAF's capabilities and commitment to maritime and arctic patrol. I trust what you say is so and the Grippen is a non-starter. In my comments on this channel's post about RCAF Lightning vs Grippen. I comment on interoperability with extant systems, logistics and power projection being in favour of the Lightning. I'm admittedly not a great fan of the F-35, but agree the Grippen would not be the right choice. btw I'm second gen US of Canadian decent. Thanks again for the feedback. :)

[@LRRPFco52]

@@scottnj2503 Weird. Your comment never popped up in my notifications so I’m only seeing it now. I used to see P-3Cs all the time departing from USAF Plant 42 in Palmdale when we were at Edwards AFB AFFTC. If you were to take a little time and study the JSF program some more from reputable sources, it will change your mind quickly. There’s a great book for those with Aero background or AeroEs called: F-35 From Concept to Cockpit It’s written by the engineering program leads for each system set, as well as some early test pilots, 731 pages. I’m surprised it was allowed to be published. It basically describes in astonishing detail all the things they went through and what they were asked to do by the services for each different airframe requirement. #1 performance requirement was combat radius, with a basic 100nm increase over legacy systems for each variant. Ex: F-35B needed 100nm more than AV-8B F-35A needed 100nm more than F-16C. F-35C needed 100nm more than F/A-18A-D. Then there was payload and performance, which all had to match or exceed the legacy platforms with a preference towards carrying the standard combat configurations internally, while leaving external stations open for follow-on sorties in a threat-degraded campaign after D-SEAD of IADS. They took multiple parallel technology research and development programs that had been on-track since the 1970s and streamed them into JSF, including AFTI, ASTOVL, MRF, CALF, A/F-X, propulsion, AESA sensor, ATF systems architecture expanded with the natural progression of semiconductor and microprocessor capabilities, better materials science, and better digital design tools. The flight control system alone is phenomenal, easy to fly, departure-resistant more than anything but the F-22A, which it is on-par with or better-than in several ways. The interesting things to rely listen to though are pilot perspectives from international pilots, especially the Israelis, Dutch, and Norwegians. For legacy metrics, the Dutch talked about doing BFM with F-16C Aggressors out of Nellis for a week, where they basically humiliated them day-after-day even while carrying GBUs inside the F-35A weapons bays that the F-16s didn’t even know they had until debrief. “Where did you guys go after BFM?” “Oh, we had GBU-12s to drop out on the ranges and plenty of gas left over, so we went and dropped after you guys bingo’d.” BFM is really an insurance policy where WVR fighter-to-fighter combat has become prickly decades ago with the advent of Helmet-HOBS missiles, so we just don’t even see it with 4th Gen anymore. Israeli perspective kinda spilled the beans when they said as you take off from Nevatim and get to 5000ft ASL, you start to see a strategic theater-level symbology TGT designate buffet ranging from the Mediterranean into Syria and the Levant. The lightbulb comes on brightly for the pilot at that point as to what this is. Heritage Foundation 2016 and 2019 anonymous USAF pilot interviews said that when they look up, they see Low Earth Orbit Satellites. All that for less than the price of a cheap, scam-ridden Gripen E (with .92 combat T/W ratio and limited payload). JSF sells itself all day long no matter what metric you look at. The open source usual suspect media presstitutes are opposite of the truth in every claim they make, especially operating costs.

[@scottnj2503]

@@LRRPFco52 Thank you. I take your counsel well, qualifying my sources are seldom internet. I've followed military aviation industry journals for 40+ years. Yet I admit I've some old school prejudices.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@scottnj2503 I’ve been immersed in defense aerospace since the 1970s, with a lot of that time at the USAF Flight Test Center at Edwards, a brief excursion to the West German flight test center near Munich, 10 years active duty with deployments all over the world, and some interesting things. I still remember the high-hour salty F-4 drivers in USAF in the late 1970s, early 1980s who knew they weren’t going to get a slot in F-15s or F-16s, saying, “We got the AIM-9L too donchya know.” "Yeah, but every one of you would trade the Guy In Back for fuel and the cockpit arrangement of an Eagle or Viper in a heartbeat.” I love the F-4. I also love the F-86 and P-51, but things change and if we don’t stay elastic/adaptive, we get left behind. One of the skill sets I embraced early on has changed dramatically, to where a lot of what we were doing and teaching is now invalidated because technology helped us understand what we were doing right and wrong better now. The fundamental technology that allowed that was the miniaturization of processors (microprocessors) percolating into the force via certain products and systems. We used to have to rely on either White Sands or Aberdeen Proving Grounds for certain ballistic information from their doppler Radar tracks, then look up published charts that showed the data, then compare our real-world data with that after using it to generate semi-predicable results. Now I can hold that capability in the palm of my hand and get better dead-on results out of the gate. F-15 really leveraged this first in TACAIR with the Digital Signals Processor upgrade that was standard in the C model Radar, back-fitted into A models that all went into Guard units before being poled or bone-yarded. ATF program took that as a baseline model for avionics architecture and made a closed-loop, fused system, but were still developing that in the 1980s and 1990s with the limits of computing power then. JSF benefitted from far more capable computing power in the design process, let alone the actual upgradeable quad-brain central processing bank. This covered everything from planning out human interface with common and uncommon maintenance access touch points, to Computational Fluid Dynamics and even RF absorption for those types of things. That’s partly why it has a lower RCS than Raptors and far better maintainability. It has a lower break-rate than Vipers do, and they’ve been the gold standard in low break rates for over 40 years. Vipers average about 10% break rate, whereas F-35As are at 6%, meaning 94% of sorties come back with a 100% full-up bird. We’ve never seen anything like it.

[@jimbograves1576]

Wow. Boeing can't give away the super hornets & eagles right now. The F35 & Euro jets getting all the love.

[@ILSRWY4]

Politics... that's it.

[@jdanon203]

The hornets and eagles are 50 year old designs. No surprise the more modern F-35 gets the love.

[@mikrokupu]

One correction: Officially Finland is unallied, not neutral. That changed when Finland joined the EU, now they are close partners to NATO (with Sweden, their close partner in defence)

[@PilotPhotog]

Excellent point and thanks for commenting!

[@oscarrehnberg3461]

I can recommend Corporal Frisk’s blog, he writes about finnish defence issues in english. Because a lot of non finnish commentators don’t understand what the finnish defence guiding thoughts are: We will be fighting a unequal battle against a near-peer/superior adversary. We will most probably be fighting alone. We do have allies but it is foolish to count on them to be staunch/reliable in face of conflict.

[@duhni4551]

Actually Finland is also allied, not with NATO but with multitude of other military organizations.

[@blackcoffeebeans6100]

@@duhni4551 No it is not. That is not true.

[@duhni4551]

@@blackcoffeebeans6100 You can check it out your self, there are numerous military organizations Finland is in. You find the information from FDF's home page for example

[@courier.66]

To quote Pixy, "here comes the snow"

[@vesatanttu4597]

thank you for helping to choose the right fighter to keep an eye on an unpredictable neighbor. usa you are top allies, thank you❤️

[@Stargazer80able]

Finland already had the newest and largest airpower in Scandinavia. I love how they state to keep it. They are awesome.

[@petter5721]

Eh what, the Swedish airforce are the largest in the Nordic region with over 120 Gripen in operation. Finland is not part of Scandinavia!

[@daginn896]

The largest air force in the Nordics, is Sweden.

[@fennoman9241]

@@petter5721 where tf did you get 120 from ? Sweden does not even have 80 Gripens, letalone 80 in operation.

[@toddbrackett4277]

I understand that Cost was an important factor in Finland's fighter selection. I am a little surprised that the FAF wasn't interested in the F-35B or F-35C since these aircraft could operate from shorter or improvised runways in the event of a conflict with Russia where it's air bases would be vulnerable to attack. The F-18C was optimized for carrier operations with reinforced landing gear and shorter take off and landing requirements than other fighters of it's era, I wonder if this is what attracted the FAF to it in the 1990s.

[@duhni4551]

F-35A B4 was perfectly capable of using our "road" bases, it was tested. Actually it managed to use shorter roads than Grippen which is designed for that ability.

[@toddbrackett4277]

@@duhni4551, I would not have expected the F-35A to need less runway than the JAS-39. I wonder how the F-35A's take off distance compares to that of the F-18C.

[@duhni4551]

@@toddbrackett4277 Works in our short road bases, so not that much. The version is A block 4 though, don't know about others.

[@Bobby-kw4qp]

I hope their getting the block 4 updated ones.

[@Rehunauris]

Finland will be one of the first countries to get Block 4 F-35.

[@gspotmop8242]

Good news for Finland bad news for the Russians😂

[@andrewhomo2461]

Not so much. Finland perfectly know what will happen to it, if it makes any hostile moves against Russia.

[@tophatv2902]

@@andrewhomo2461 that is the thing Finland will never attack they only have a defensive army lol

[@andrewhomo2461]

@@tophatv2902 they could let american bombers on their airfields. This could be interpreted as an indirect threat. But I agree with you, Finland and Russia should be and hopefully will be good neighbours

[@tophatv2902]

@@andrewhomo2461 Cool

[@timoterava7108]

@@andrewhomo2461 Russia is never a good neighbour to anybody.

[@jonnekallu1627]

Somehow the Finnish Defense Forces evaluation team calculated that the 64 Finnish F-35A fighters would have 15 billion lower life-time cost than Norway with it's 52 F-35A planes. Understandably the Finnish officials have been asking for more transparency on how exactly the costs, which were the deciding factor, were calculated.

[@SverkerSuper]

It has nothing to do with cost. Its politics - if cost really was a factor, JAS39 would be a clear winner with the emerging alliance with Sweden

[@foleymaj]

What then fuck are you saying? No, the Finnish officials haven't asked for more transparency or better calculation of life costs. You are spreading mis-information.

[@StevePlegge]

"high angles of boresight" - should be OFF boresight.

[@SukiSuki562]

The capabilities the F-35 can be a mothership to other ground troops by sharing its info. Imagine all NATO on the same page during a war? Scary

[@BENKYism]

score one for Funland

[@Nikocum]

Finland got the F-35 for a price of 73M per aircraft... the Swiss must be mad!

[@Balnazzardi]

Well for USA its very important to for country the size of Finland next to Russian border to have strong enough military force in case one day shit hits the fan

[@jjt1093]

Swiss have money Finland has the TAX the shit out of its working class people to pay for things, Swiss have tax free and nazi gold

[@Honken55]

@@jjt1093 Well they also pay 10x as much to send a kid to daycare then in Finland.....

[@Frog89mad]

so the "leaks" were right. Weird how only today Finland had the big media conference for the publication of the chosen aircraft. they even said the decision was not clear until today.

[@duhni4551]

In the beginning of the HX program our government told that they will let military decide what jet they want. Couple of days ago military announced that they chose F-35 but it still needed governments stamp to make it official, which happened today. So it was unofficially official yesterday and now it is official by all accounts.

[@samisuhonen9815]

Didn't the F-35's recently fly over Russian air defenses and back undetected? I believe they took nice photos of Russian troop buildup and also went to say hello to a civilian plane just to make a point of "We can totally fly anywhere undetected and get near enough to bomb the shit out of you, all while raising zero alarms". If I remember that even nearly correctly, getting the F-35 was the best option we Finns could have taken. Especially considering the fact it doesn't need to be stored near a huge centralized runway due to the VTOL system. Like it can just use a highway or any long strip or road as a runway to properly take off with full mission equipment, while being capable of transporting itself to it from a nearby hiding place by hovering with lightweight setups. This feature makes it nearly impossible to start a war by striking our airforce capability in the first days. And the F-35 is very survivable in air too, having features such as decoys it can both shoot in front of it, or drag behind it. These tools let it survive many encounters with enemy planes, as they soak missiles and expose enemies by pretending to be enemy planes from the POV of the enemy and their missiles.

[@billjohansson88]

The deal does not only mean that you get a number of toys, if I understand the text correctly, joint maintenance was included and jobs are created in your country. It was gratifying to read your selection criteria and that you were granted a deal that involves a holistic view, what is best for your country.

[@trolleriffic]

I think Finland is only planning to buy the F-35A, not the B version which has the STOVL capability. That doesn't mean the aircraft won't be able operate off suitably constructed sections of road, but they would have to be more like a traditional runway in length.

[@Triple87]

My guess is Canada will follow with the F-35.

[@plamantin2937]

I hope not

[@Triple87]

@@plamantin2937 Yeah, my money was on the super hornet. But we all know that’s over. Although, I did see something about the government of Canada denying every proposal and asking for a better deal. Not sure how much truth there is to that. But, between the two remaining. I’d like to see delta wings in North America. 🤫🤫

[@_ace_defective_]

@@Triple87 clearly we need an F-35D, a delta winged F-35, to give North America delta wing capabilities lmao

[@Triple87]

@@_ace_defective_ i accept your terms. 🤣

[@jhk8396]

Canada will accept the RAAF's retiring F-35As in 2048.

[@MM22966]

It's practicality: if they ever have a serious problem with Russia, the Russians could park a couple of S-400/500 batteries near St. Petersburg and Murmansk, and anything non-stealth literally wouldn't be able to fly over Finland without getting shot at/down. That is a hell of threat/way to enforce a no-fly zone without even having fly a visible patrol. The only way the Finns could deal with that militarily would be to threaten back a stealthed airstrike with precision long-range weapons. A Hornet, Grippen, Raf, or Typhoon, while fine aircraft, just wouldn't be survivable that way.

[@andrewhomo2461]

Finland hopes to get f 35 by 2030. I guess Russians will develop more sophisticated anti-stealth technologies by this date.

[@andrewhomo2461]

@whoupz thesoups Nah, Russians make new better anti-air system every 10 years.

[@andrewhomo2461]

@whoupz thesoups Well, the works of s-400 started in 2000 - Russia started to use in its forces. S-500 was started in 2009 and now they have it in their troops. They also develloped many anti-stealth radars and so they can guide their fighters to the stealth targets approximate location. Meanwhile S-400 can detect, but also track and shoot f-35 at ranges from 100 to 120 km.

[@tristanpaulpestano544]

@@andrewhomo2461 where did you even get that range? The S-400s can detect a 4m^2 at 200km using the Fire-control radar. Corresponding to a range of 20-30km detection for F-35 size aircraft in a non-jamming environment. Are you talking about the VHF? It can only show where but can’t tell how far away is. And oh, S-500 is an BMD system and not for air-breathing targets. It is useless against air-breathing targets since the warhead and the missile isn’t optimized for it.

[@andrewhomo2461]

@@tristanpaulpestano544 L band AESA radars of S-400 (forgot the exact name, but maximum range is about 600 km) can see aproximate location of f-35 at 300 km (100 m 2 or so). It cannot target, but will see aproximate location of f35 and guide fighters to it.

[@Russell_Huston]

All of the competing aircraft are amazing, capable planes. Any of them would be incredible to use. It looks like the Lockheed "battle avionics package" may have been the difference here. "looking through the plane".....wow. I guess for some time now, the concept in fighter design has been to build the most effective offensive and defensive remote missile platform. From how far can you see and engage your enemy? Can your plane, not just your pilot, be situationally aware of the entire environment? Makes you wonder if system engineers are planning to create "on the fly" A.I. powered, battle coordination systems where all the planes in numerous squadrons fight together, adapting in real time and swarming the opponent? Pilots wouldn't like it, but they could become a kind of manual override system in such a scenario. Robustness, and cost effectiveness matter as well. Those would be my only worries with sophisticated systems. Now...train those pilots !

[@Frserthegreenengine]

As someone who had doubts over the F-35 a few years ago, I'm now glad that my country (the UK) got them in the end - they are certainly a worthy replacement for our Harrier and Tornado fleets. Although the Harrier will always remain my personal favourite military jet, the F-35 is such a beast of an aircraft and is far more flexible and capable (not to mention it's easier to fly than a Harrier).

[@SuperKamaki]

PERKELE!

[@glenn_r_frank_author]

I wonder what will happen in a real-world combat scenario - the F-35 having ability to network share/receive sensor data if at some point countries who both have 35's or have compatible (or hacked) systems that can integrate if counter-cyber-warfare will be used against countries using the 35. I am sure they have through of this and have security in place for it but a Cyclon/battlestar scenario keeps ringing in my head about combat assets being nullified by cyber attacks.

[@loganholmberg2295]

Don't forget the gripen is spouting to have the same datalink technology as well.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@loganholmberg2295 Gripen E definitely doesn’t have anything close to JSF MADL. JSF MADL is narrow beam/directional/LPI between VLO fighters than can’t see each other with their sensors. Somehow, they have to be able to connect. It took 7 years to crack that code of 24/7 work on the F-22A from 1997-2004 before they finally got it to work reliably. JSF uses a major step-up from that system, but the 4.5 Gen fighters are nowhere in that space. They use omnidirectional bursts of encrypted VHF/UHF that can be interfered with using jammers in that bandwidth, as well as used to detect their presence in an EMCON environment. Saab’s marketing folks have basically cut and paste true JSF capabilities and advertised them as their own, without even scratching the surface. If they tried to develop MADL, it would bankrupt their company, it’s that hard.

[@LRRPFco52]

It works the opposite way. F-35 fused sensor suite is sniffing and looking all over for contacts from low earth orbit down to the ocean surface. As soon as one of them sees something, it immediately checks it against the threat library, as it also shares its sensor feed with other F-35s on narrow beam LPI links. Their sensors look at the same contacts from different aspects while cross-checking with their threat libraries, then share their PID back with the first trigger. This is done in seconds without pilot input. You can’t hack a system like that because each sensor node is independent with dozens of sensors that cover different bandwidths. One sensor can’t lie to the other one, but instead, they see a deeper truth than either could on their own. That amplifies across the MADL net, so each point of sharing increases the fidelity exponentially.

[@glenn_r_frank_author]

@@LRRPFco52 that's cool. So it basically lets each platform double check... nice.

[@Mr98popol]

Year ago F35 done fight simulation with us F16 in close combat , F16 victory all time

[@jamesseaman6919]

The advertisement always tells you Super Cruise can do but never what the speed with afterburner is! The same with the F-22!

[@pumarolz]

O shi this is gonna be fire

[@appa609]

Gripen E might be dead. Only really makes sense to use if there's enough other users to provide economy of scale

[@a.fredscullard162]

Not sure about dead but maybe on life support? Most likely has about a decade before becoming obsolete!

[@LogieT2K]

maybe some south american or other smaller asian countries might go for but yeah, not looking great for it. Bit of a shame because I do have a bit of a soft spot for it

[@Merecir]

Sweden and Brazil is getting it, that is far from dead...

[@LRRPFco52]

Gripen E should have never been born. It was a last-ditch attempt by Saab to remain relevant, with extreme constraints placed on them by Riksdag, preventing it from being a capable platform in the modern environment. Starting from power-to-weight, it’s riding the struggle bus before we even talk about payload.

[@Merecir]

@@LRRPFco52 With pylons full with Meteors Gripen E can still super cruise...

[@jontus9925]

Good Luck with the F35 Finland, you will need it !!!

[@duhni4551]

Nothing to do with luck, it was analyzed for years and our military deemed it the best and most reliable choice. Now you can disagree but then you have to start to argue against the data from HX program.

[@daveershumluc781]

More like good luck to you and hope f-35 is not in your skies. But you’ll never know if it is

[@MeMyselfI_69]

Great video. Only 180 rounds!? 😲. I know they most likely will never use the gun but.

[@junkookbts1273]

J-20 don't even have a gun

[@4jqxc]

Modern missiles make dogfighting an increasingly unlikely scenario.

[@theemperorofmankind4842]

​@@junkookbts1273 Yes, J20 doesn't even have gun and i have heard from the pilots themself that even F22 Gun can shoot likes only 5 seconds if they hold the trigger(button?) and then all of the ammo are completely deplete. In the modern day it's the who see who first and shoot first with missiles.

[@badasstasticusbadass4908]

The canons on modern aircrafts are more of a Last Resort tool if missiles are not effective or the enemy is engaged in a dogfight, it's kind of like seeing a soldier in full modern gear, but it still has it's survival knife just in case. Plus, don't understimate the power of those 25mm rounds, a burst from that canon can rip the wings in half of an enemy aircraft.

[@badasstasticusbadass4908]

@@junkookbts1273 It's because the J-20 is more like a Stealth long range striker platform and not really ment for close range combats like Dogfights, so... placing a canon it's kind of pointless in the J-20.

[@R.U.1.2.]

FYI-Canada has made a final choice of the F-35 since this program was made 10 months ago.

[@TammoKis]

" Militarily, the objective of cooperation is that we must be able to work with Sweden under normal circumstances, in crisis and war, if policymakers so decide," Kivinen ( Commander of the Finnish Defence Forces.) summed up." = In crisis and war we can not trust Swedish left/green policymakers !

[@Zohnorg]

Correction: In times of crisis we cannot really trust ANY Swedish policymakers no matter the color.

[@roku4067]

Has Sweden ever been not trustworthy towards Finland? I don't understand your comment.

[@martinaberg6157]

General Rudolf Walden: without the significant material help from Sweden winter war would have lasted only the half time…

[@TammoKis]

In those days most Politicians still had A Spine. Unlike today. = ( $ $ $ )

[@Honken55]

@@TammoKis You are the first one to call swedish politicians during ww2 to have a spine lol 😀

[@perelfberg7415]

I am sure it will serve them well, with out a dough a good aircraft. Though to my knowledge its so far no decision made. Information have leaked out that the armed forces will pick the F35 but no final decision made. Its very likely it will be the F35 but not official so far. The Finns made a very solid HX -program and the armed forces pick will weigh very heavy in the final verdict.

[@LRRPFco52]

It comes down to this: Typhoon at 142 million Euros Unit Cost, Unit Program Cost around 200 million Euros Rafale F4 at $225 million Unit Program Cost (reference the latest UAE deal, where they got a discount for ordering 80 of them) Gripen E/F unit program cost of $155 million per the latest deal to Brazil, (former Brazilian President received $740,000 into his bank account by a business marketing firm related to Saab, currently under investigation) Super Hornet/Growler unit program cost of ???? (Boeing won’t reveal the unit flyaway or unit program costs) F-35A Unit Flyway Cost $77.9 million, Unit Program Cost $103.85 million complete with a huge list of weapons Finland has already been approved for on DSCA. Finnish Air Force and Defense Minister presentation to Parliament is that the cheapest option is the only one that actually meets their military requirements better than any other contender, is already compatible with existing Hornet weapons, and comes with a better weapons suite than any other offering, for half the price of at least 2 of the submissions, and $51 million extra per aircraft left over compared with the Saab option. There is no decision to be made. The F-35A has already made the decision for everyone involved by its capabilities and price. There is nothing to argue, no debate to be had. Literally every point someone could try to make is invalid before they open their mouths, and even the dumbest ones see it when the numbers are shown to them.

[@perelfberg7415]

@@LRRPFco52 aa you are back with your agenda. Painting one of the world least corrupt countrys as a crook. So until there is any proof you should keep your ideas for your self. Also it did not help that US with danish help spied on Swedish defence company's and european leaders. Why then get involved in a US platform that potentially gather information on them self. US was exposed that they in fact do so. Luckily there are danish authority's that and democratic mechanisms that ensure that the laws are followed. So lets keep to the facts about the HX-challenge it self and facts in general. All contenders would serve Finland very well. Price differ and much of that is a result of economy by scale. Though maintanace cost is a very important factor. Other factors that is out side of the platform it self is the importance of cooperation and security of supply. Covid exposed very much how dependent we are by solid supplychains, one can not tie up to much money in parts in storage. Them the commitment to euoropean nondependancy of US for its security is a very active topic in the european defence and security discuss. Last but not least Finlands closest defence partner is Sweden. Air force and navy have a very Close cooperation and will depend on eachother. But there are two aspects with in that. The benefit of one platform for support for them in both countrys. Also the benefit of more global eye than just the swedish platforms. No advanced fighter will supply the same picture of the battle space. The other is the benefit of spreading the risk by having different platforms that can complement each other.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@perelfberg7415 My agenda is the truth, along with getting the best capabilities for Finland, where much of my family is from and currently lives. So I've worked and trained with the Finnish and Swedish militaries from 2005-2016. Finland has far stronger ties with the US and other European nations than it does with Sweden. The Swedes like to overstate their relationship, then try to dictate to the international partners how exercises would be run as if they were in charge by royal decree. Meanwhile everyone else who has actually been deploying is just chuckling at them, letting them pretend to be Napoleon while we just handle our business. US, Brits, Danes, Norwegians, Estonians, and Finns worked together great. The general cultural feeling was that Swedes are a joke, more of an annoyance that had to be comically tolerated. One thing that was constant with all my experiences across different Finnish units was that they tell a lot of jokes about Sweden. I also have current family in Sweden, so it was interesting to learn how each of the nations interact with each other. Maybe it's different with the air forces. Europe has been relying on US defense since 1945, which allowed Europe to rebuild and later focus on economic growth while US taxpayers continue to foot most of the bill for European security. Sweden is totally dependent on US and NATO main industrial nations for engines (GE), Radars (Leonardo), IR sensors (Leonardo, L-M, Raytheon), databuses (US), hydraulics (UK, US), servos(UK), fuel pumps (UK), ejection seats (UK), missiles (US, Germany), etc. Saab and Volvo Flygmotor are not domestic companies manufacturing organic Swedish systems, but instead final assemblers of US/NATO systems into the Swedish-built airframe. This is why Saab's marketing firm was charged and convicted of ITAR violations when they bribed multiple foreign government officials to cheat their air forces by placing Gripen at the top in competitions where it was at the bottom, (not wanted by their air forces). They pled guilty and were fined $400 million, which could have been used in the Gripen NG development budget instead. Since then, they still used an intermediary to transfer $740,000 to the former President of Brazil after he steered Brazil into the Gripen E/F under an exorbitant multi-billion deal with high interest rate financing by Sweden.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@perelfberg7415 GlobalEye doesn't present anywhere near the regional SA that Norwegian, Danish, Netherlands, UK, Polish, and Finnish JSF network will. AWACS platforms only provide persistence now with long duration flights and early warning that way, but you can get better early warning now from whoever is in the air at that time with JSF.

[@perelfberg7415]

@@LRRPFco52 then you would be honest and opend to discuss pros and cons of all contenders. I have never seen you in any different comment seen you acknowledge any even minor short coming of the F35 or any pro of Gripen. So much for the truth there.

[@mydearcod9639]

In Finland we dont giva a F what Russia thinks. If they want war, they know where to find us.

[@Ba_Yegu]

Looking at the recent development in the security scene in the Europe I'd doubt the Finnish Air Force is retiring their fleet of very capable F/A-18 Hornets put keep them till they all are beyond their calculated air frame durability and reliability figures or run out of spare parts available.

[@1badhaircut]

Yes, keeping the F18s is advisable for non-stealth situations.

[@tristanpaulpestano544]

Finnish Hornets will run for awhile but it will be phased out little by little as F-35s are delivered to Finland.

[@harska]

To be clear, the final decision has not been made. This is the leaked / rumored preference of the millitary evaluation board. Politicians have promised to decide according to the proposal, but you never know for sure...

[@a.fredscullard162]

This type of news does not get leaked out unless it is meant to be, period!

[@harska]

@@a.fredscullard162 the report is distributed to a notable group of politicians, and you can consider it a tradition that one of them leaks out the contents if it is their best personal interest.

[@LRRPFco52]

The FiAF and Minister of Defence already said in 2015 they want the latest technology found in JSF, not something warmed over from the past generation. They made these statements after being given access to internal JSF potential partner nation capabilities briefs with existing NATO F-35 nation pilot experiences shared with them. Once existing FiAF F/A-18C pilots saw what is going on with F-35, they immediately saw how it would change things dramatically for Finland. If you read the 5 sub paragraphs of the Military Capabilities paragraph in the H-X challenge documents, you see that they literally wrote the basic specs with F-35A in-mind. The first sub paragraph is “Counter-Air”, first sentence in that paragraph talks about sensor-fusion, followed by unusual requirements for EW against other fighters at BVR, autonomous PID capability, and multi-target track and PID. Initial discussions actually said they need a kill ratio of 30-1 like they had with the Brewster in WWII. The Counter-Ground (Air-to-Ground) paragraph talks about automated TGT detection/recognition, and ease of weapons employment with reduced pilot workload. Same for Anti-Ship mission set. Anti-ship is important for Finland, as it is for Norway. No other modern fighter is anywhere near as capable at anti-ship as JSF and Norway is the lead partner nation working with USN in development of the next generation anti-ship weapons. Next sub paragraph is about Intel/Surveillance/Target Acquisition/Reconnaissance. F-35s have these capabilities integrated into them, whereas every other contender needs to attach pods to perform the full ISTAR mission set. JSF ISTAR capabilities are continuous and networked with each other without pilot input. JSF are more like spy planes in this regard, covering most or more than what U-2R can do since they don’t need to maintain as much stand-off as the U-2 does. U-2s skirt international waters looking sideways with SAR and other sensors at specific TGTs, then can link that through the net with very high resolution imagery. F-35s have as or more advanced sensors in that space, with wider coverage and ability to get much closer. Next sub paragraph talks about Electronic Warfare. The H-X military capes descriptions/requirements are unlike any fighter requirements I have read before for Foreign Military Sales. Everything has changed.

[@Durovnax]

Now it is confirmed

[@junkookbts1273]

Official now.