Finnish DNA: What is the Genetic History of Finland?

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thanks for watching! Please let me know your thoughts below and if you would like to vote on which video topics I make videos on and support this channel, please check out my Patreon page: www.patreon.com/historydecoded

[@Josephmalenab]

You have did it thanks again for the video on this topic i got kven finn from Norway plus Norwegian and British isles DNA so i salute you your videos mean a whole lot to people keep on making videos thank you and cheers

[@cgaumerd]

Great presentation. But why do you rush it through? You're speaking way to fast, making listening to you very unpleasant. Slow down.

[@user-yr5nv2gv7m]

now 'uralic' becomes siberian, no wonder u never hear of 'swiderian' culture (with one disputed instance of their defining 'willow-leaf' point found as far west as neolithic Orkney...) but prly the contemporary academic approach is fundamentally wrong too, these population interaction dynamics cant be viewed like marbles of different sizes but equally dense substance bouncing each other, it was more like 'uralic' were a big pudding, and steppe IE were like angry billiard ball...

[@Pterodactylus548]

So Finlands evacuation of 360 000 citicens under Soviet Unions attack saved some of our genetic heritage. I have all Karelian blood (heritage found by research to yr1630).

[@JangianTV]

Fascinating! Without knowing much about the country, never would've guessed Finland was so uniquely different from its neighbours. Thank you.

[@mikrokupu]

Yeah Finns are rather unique in that sense. I just learnt I'm a rather typical Finnish genetic cocktail, Western Europe meets Siberia :)

[@JangianTV]

@mikrokupu Very nice! Stand tall and proud. 🙂

[@mandygershon8603]

I'm mostly Finnish. Siberian origins, eh? Well, these old genes have come full circle. I'm also a bit Icelandic, was born in Minnesota, and I live in Alaska. ;^)

[@teroe2322]

If i ever go to usa i'd go to Alaska , such a fascinating place

[@VesaGuardian]

As a Finn I have to say that I love your accent. For some reason I have this same way of speaking and I have no clue why it got to be that way .

[@lexluthor6497]

Katoppa youtubesta sellainen kun amy Mcdonald. Siis joku haastattelu ei laulua. Perhana että on hieno murre..

[@mikrokupu]

A Finnish guy here, I did a DNA test (23AndMe), what I've understood I got a very typical result in Finland: The maternal haplogroup is H, common in Europe generally, and the paternal haplogroup is N-M178, which is common in men with indigenous Siberian ancestry.

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thanks for sharing, really interesting

[@mh-lu3um]

American with Finnish Ancestry on both sides (father and mother) Finns My Y DNA Haplogroup is a branch from the I1-L258 subclade It is exclusive to Finland, and is said to have arrived in there around 1.AD from lower Sweden. My fathers family comes from South Ostrobothnia. My Mtdna from my mothers side is Haplogroup H3 and comes from North Ostrobothnia. Been waiting for this video, you great work! I would love to know more about the Finnish I1 history in the Nordic Bronze Age, before its arrival in Finland. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on this.

[@TheMesase]

The lack of writing is a real bitch. The swedes had writing, both runic and later latin, but it offers very little help when it comes to history behind the Gulf of Bothnia. It’s actually shocking how brittle our understanding of the northern Baltic in the early second millennium is. Things like the burning of Sigtuna, the Swedish conquests of Finland (Or the Swedish Crusades), the historic clashes with orthodox and catholic powers and the overall coming of Christianity to Finland are super obscure. By googling you can easily find extremely detailed explanations of what has happened, and maps with intricately defined territories. However, when you actually look at the primary sources and archaeological and genealogical evidence you realize how much of our understanding is based on conjecture and guessing. If someone tries to tell you that they fully understand how things happened, they are most likely lying.

[@granhalfdanarsonellingsen9700]

I1-L258 is not exclusive to Finland, but it probably originated there in the iron age from an earlier bronze age expansion of I1. So it's highly common in southwestern Finland, however it also exists across the sea in both Central and Northern Sweden and in Norway. I am Norwegian, and I belong to the same male haplotype as you. In my family we know that our male ancestor arrived from Sweden in the 1800's to Norway and married into a farmer family of Østerdalian and Trønder origin from Southeastern and middle Norway. At some stage the I1-L258 lineage spread into Sweden from Finland, probably both straight across the sea to the Mälaren-area in Central Sweden and northwards. When this event occured is difficult to say, it was probably multiple events of migrations throughout history considering that Finland always had a connection with the Central-Swedish area, already from Bronze Age onwards. This connection was even more visible in the Iron Age cultures of Finland and Sweden, and of course later on in the medieval ages when Finland was absorbed by the Swedish kingdom. Later on there was multiple Finnish migration waves into Sweden and Norway as well, due to the Great Northern war in the 1700's. Today, in just my family we are over 50 living I1-L258 descendants of our ancestor from Sweden, and we are spread out in all of Norway. "I would love to know more about the Finnish I1 history in the Nordic Bronze Age, before its arrival in Finland. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on this." Finland during the Bronze Age was most likely a Corded Ware culture, that spoke Indo-European languages before the arrival of N1c-men, R1a was the most prominent Y-DNA haplogroup during this period, then the I1 lineages became more prominent from the Nordic Bronze Age onwards. I am an archaeologist by profession, and the culture in southern Finland has close similarites with the rest of the Corded Ware-cultural sphere and later Nordic Bronze Age cultures in Scandinavia. For some reason they shifted their language after the arrival of the Uralic cultures from Ural/Volga, perhaps due to conflict where they lost dominance in the ruling elites, however it could also have been due to trade. It's not so much well known, but the Uralic people had the knowledge of producing iron quite early on, and lately we have found quite early areas in both Northern Sweden, Norway and Northern Finland with early iron production sites that also even were able to produce steel. The sites date to the Pre-Roman period, so after Bronze Age, but it's an indication that the Uralic peoples knew advanced techniques perhaps even prior to this dating, which later on arrived in Scandinavia/Fennoscandia that made them so dominant in the later Finnish area.

[@villerantavalli9395]

@@granhalfdanarsonellingsen9700 another interesting thing about Finland is that according to paleo-linguistics there likely were more than just the proto-Indo-European speakers in Finland during the time of comb & corded ware-culture. if their conclusions on the study of loanwords and place names hold true, there may have been as many as 4 or even 5 different people in Finland at the time of the arrival of the first Proto-Sami speakers. As for the "Finnish genes" in Norway, well that's fairly easy to explain with the rågfinnar & Same escaping the genocidal oppression of Swedes at the 17th century and Kvens escaping famine at the 18th but I find that assumption hand-wavy because both populations have historically been relatively small and geographically secluded from the Main Norwegian population centered at the coast around the "bulb" of Norway at the south.

[@granhalfdanarsonellingsen9700]

@@villerantavalli9395 Yes I read about that study, by Ante Aikio right? Archaeologically it could perhaps match up with the special archaeological culture in Varanger, believed to be early Sami burials. Could they perhaps be the Paleo-Laplandic peoples in the hypothesises of the lingvistics? I don't have enough knowledge of Finnish Archaeology in the north of Finland, but the grave type in Varanger later spread in the 10th century as far south as Jamtland and Trøndelag in the Viking Age. There was also Finnic Ugric people in most of Northern Norway all the way down to Trøndelag even in the Viking Age, living next to the Norse population, mostly Sami, as seen by the occurence of round houses/tents and their particular burial type called "urgraver" dated to the 10th century. We also have written sources of the so called "Bjarmer" of Biarmia, who are believed to be Finnic-Ugric peoples, that were resettled in the 12th century by the king of Norway in Malangen, as protection from the Novgorord Principality and other raids. But as you said, they were small communities settled in small numbers. The Finnic-Ugric peoples of that time were quickly assimilated into the coastal population, were the Norse culture was dominant. This is however the tendency along the coast. You still have almost exclusive Finnish people in Norway, for example in the south of Norway in Finnskogen. These were more secluded and isolated, although this migration is much later. Another theory except for the oppression and famine, is that a lot of peoples in Tornedalen along the border of Sweden and Finland wanted to escape military service, the famine is apparantly a bit exaggarated when it comes to Tornedalen. However, being able to both participate in farming and fishing probably also was tempting for most peoples. I think the explanation to Finnish genes in Sweden and Norway are multiple migration events occuring from Viking Age on, perhaps earlier, as of the study "The genetic history of Scandinavia from the Roman Iron Age to the present" by Rodriguez-Varela et.al. Some of the migration was probably due to trade, slavery another, alliances through marriages etc. The interesting thing when you look at the haplogroups, the marriages for example between Norse and Sami, were almost exclusively female-biased, between a Norse man and a Sami woman. Also, there were at least some people of Finnish or partly Finnish origin in the Viking Age armies that invaded England and also the migrations eastwards into Russia. It was a lot more multicultural as first believed. Although a bit mythical, it seems that Rurik (Old Norse: Hrörekr) of the Rurikid dynasty of the Rus, belonged to haplogroup N1c, as "confirmed" by testing males along the numerous Rurikids descendants that still exists today. Perhaps an origin of assimilated Finnish or Sami men into the Scandinavian population of central Sweden.

[@villerantavalli9395]

@@granhalfdanarsonellingsen9700 Females would track in the sense that often it was the daughter sent to marry into a wealthy house or family to cement existing ties and a son if a new alliance between houses was intended because in later Scandinavia the eldest sons usually inherited it all, though in Merovingian/Vendel-phase & viking-age and within the early Germanic & Celtic people in general, the inheritance was to be divided equally between all children -much to the horror of the hyper-patriarchal Romans at the time who abhorred their women to have even money under their own name.

[@mariajoanna5364]

Thank you / kiitos as we say in Finnish. Fascinating stuff. I find the possibility of having come from Siberia quite interesting. In fact, my mind calls me to the West but my Heart to the East. I am a Finn with only Finnish ancestors traced back to the 16th century according to a genealogy study my late father did. I have pale skin, blonde hair but dark brown eyes 💙 🇫🇮

[@noorak2078]

There was a study that claimed that Western Finns and Eastern Finns are genetically far apart. Unless there has been a little mixing. What are the differences? People get different results from a tests.

[@user-yt3xd2jl6d]

Western Finns are characterized by having more DNA from Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers SHG, the first inhabitants of Scandinavia 10 thousand years ago, Eastern Finns have more DNA associated with Nganasan or Siberian indigenous, Southern Finland has a genetic flow from the Baltic, then there is a bit of Viking genetic impact coming from Sweden, more on the coasts of Finland

[@user-yt3xd2jl6d]

50% Indo-European DNA + 25% Scandinavian Hunter Gatherer DNA + 15% Anatolian + 10% Nganasan (indigenous Siberian) = 100% Finnish. Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers differ from Western Hunter Gatherers by having 19% ANE DNA (central Siberian component), the Indo-Europeans themselves have between 25% to 50% ANE DNA, but the Nganasan themselves are 60% Neo-Siberian and 40% ANE.

[@lba6859]

Western Finns might have higher proportion of western hunter gatherer, while the Eastern finns might have slightly higher neolithic component.

[@anttikettunen1553]

As a native Finn I'm Savonian both from my father's side and my mother's side. My paternal haplogroup is N-FT38800, and my maternal haplogroup is k1c. Yet a deeper dive to my genetics shows that my forefathers have been Savonians from around 480 AD, Karelians from around 90 BC, Tawastians from around 400 BC, and Proto-Sami from around 700 BC and generally Proto-Finnic from around 10000 BC. My maternal haplogroup k1c is quite rare among Finns. It is believed to have first arisen in North-Eastern Italy.

[@PohjanpoikaErik]

Good and fascinating video 👌🏼 I am a proud Finn! ❤️🇫🇮

[@segevstormlord3713]

It's interesting that there's that much genetic difference, when - at least to me, an American - the phenotypes look very similar to their neighbors. (I have at least 1/4 Finnish blood, myself, with my grandfather having been born of Finnish immigrants, but I know very little about the Scandinavian part of the world.) Scandinavians - Finns and Swedes et al - have a very similar phenotypical look about them, as far as I can tell.

[@Josephmalenab]

Thank you i have asked for this topic so i thank you cheers with a cup of coffee

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thanks

[@HanneleKorpela53]

So, it's not only genetics that make us a little different or unique. Is it good or bad, i guess it's how we take it. I'm just proud to be Finnish, we are small but resilient nation.

[@JannyBesmircher]

My moms side of the family is from Karelia and my dads side is from Wales. Weve owned Huskies for most of my life and ive always had a special connection with them. I honestly never knew about the possible Siberian connections between Finns and the Uralic/Siberian peoples. Perhaps my ancestors long ago once owned Huskies in their native land and thats why im so gravitated towards them. But maybe im just schizo who knows aha! Great video man!

[@maku987]

But using dog sleds doesn't belong to Finnish traditions, not even Saamis ones. Dog sleds were introduced to serve tourists. Snowmobiles are an older tradition 🙂

[@Pietruska17]

So brave of you to use your own voice even with that speech defect! Keep going!

[@mechantl0up]

I have read some research that claimed Finns have the highest prevalence of blonde hair and blue eyes of any population, but the blue eye colour is different to most other Europeans, bring lighter, more “watercolour” blue. Also, the eye shape for some Finns is more Asiatic than European.

[@badmacdonald]

im 97.6% Celt and 2.4% Finnish

[@lba6859]

That 2.4 might mean corded wear culture

[@Christ-xf4ej]

I have about 10% Celtic and my child has 15% (he has an Italian father). My maternal haplogroup is H and my paternal is I1 and maybe I am just a typical Western Finn.

[@maku987]

I'm tired to listen this BS. Many points were absolutely groundless. To mention a few, the male haplogroup N1c is in Lithuania and Latvia almost as common as in Finland. Are 40% of them Finns? The haplogroup I1 in Finland is over 2000 years old, so can't be "Swedish". Actually the Swedish ancestry is quite rare in Finland, excluding two small coastal areas. The Siberian admixture is proven to be similar with Saamis, who lived in Finland before Finns. Saamis lived everywhere, even in the Southermost Finland. At the time the Finns came they assimilated Saamis leaving Siberian admixture behind. Even today it can be seen how the amount of the Siberian admixture increases toward north and east where the Saami population was more dense. And originally N1c wasn't so strong in Finland, because the eastern Finland was populated as late as in the 16th century from Karelia. The east was until that time absolute wilderness. This is known history, but can be seen also by the difference between eastern and western N1c clades in Finland. There are a lot more reasons why the presentation here is BS...

[@kampar82]

Finland is not that homogenous, in the eastern part N1c is 70 % or more, western part is I1, almost like two separate populations.

[@kampar82]

I have to add, I'm not trying to be belligerent and I might have failed reading your comment properly, migraine, too many people today.

[@nordiclivingfinland]

hello from helsinki :) depends ofcourse if finnish person has family from other part of the world...like myself my grandfather side is from kazakstan,so as a finnish woman im quite dark and i got that also in my DNA

[@alphalunamare]

Siberia seems so far away but from lines of latitude it is the near. Maybe that's a clue as to the migration, same weather?

🐾🐾🐻🇫🇮 Moi. 👍👍👍....

[@alisdairmclean8605]

You can plot the prevalence of schizophrenia in a diagonal line from the from Salo in the South (0.35% to Kuusamo in the North East (1.2%). The genetics of the Finland as you said are really well studied due to the founder population. I lived in Finland for nearly 30 years and contributed Celtic genes into the gene pool!

[@arthurrobey4945]

Are the Finns Finda's people as mentioned in our Oera Linda? I was under the impression that Finda's people were Asiatic.

[@Eulaalia10]

You can find Finnish dna cultures as far as in China (fair skinned, red haired Hongsha). Tschingis Khan was not Asian, he was fair skinned and probably blond which was established by a university research in Russia. Apparently this has been common knowledge by the locals...

[@gurglejug627]

@@Eulaalia10 that's interesting - about the Russian research showing that, I hadn't heard about it. Do you perchance have any links? Having spent rather some time in Mongolia the Mongols say that Djenghis Khan had green eyes - this is their tradition, and they also often say that he was not actually Mongol but Buryat by birth - the Buryats say he is one of theirs (Buryats being, today at least, on the northern border of what is now Outer Mongolia (I don't know whether it was ever different or not). But "NOT Mongol but Buryat" shows quite a distinction.

[@villerantavalli9395]

@@gurglejug627 Buryats & Tuvan are Mongolians in the same sense that Estonians & Karelians are Finnish I.e closely related languages and shared cultures but different people to the point that they had their own communist state at one point but because of small population and being landlocked they held a referendum and opted to rather join Soviet Union than attempt at striking on their own after several years of economical struggles.

[@florenna]

I remember a study a few years ago which claimed that purely genetically, there's no such thing as "Finnish people", the genes are so different. But this hasn't stopped its frequent use in advertising for example, so many products are advertised for "Finnish hairtype" or "Finnish skin", even though such things simply do not exist.😉

[@vesarintamaki2712]

Finns are the native people of all Europe , finns inhabited all of Europe long before the indo/asian/arab/african invasion.Finns are finns the other Europeans all have finnish in them , they are half to part finns.The finnish people travelled to other parts of the world before the "indoeuropeans" came to finnish Europe.

[@user-yt3xd2jl6d]

In the PCA graphs, they are shown as a separate group from the Europeans, as a separate and separate population, with a shift towards Eurasian populations: Western Siberians, Central Asia and Latin America (mixture of Native Americans with Europeans from the South and to a lesser extent from Africa)

[@gurglejug627]

quite a sweeping and bold statement - where do you get that from?

[@Lund.J]

One of those "sources" is Sigurd Wettenhovi-Aspa, but there are others, that are more reliable.. into which, for the scope of the subject, I will not now go.

[@SoulWeasel69]

äläpä puhu paskaa äijä! :D

[@mladenmatosevic4591]

Swedish molitary system was that one professional soldier received his upkeep from group of farms and lived in vicinity. Whole company lived in one area and captain was moderately wealthy landowner so they were friends with rach other. Soldiers had to know dome Swedish but would often marry local women. Also, cultural assimilation of Uralic speaking prople was much stronger in Russia than in Sweden.

[@dojchinstanojkov8397]

The nordic people have a LOT of genetic admixtures, and if you look 300 km on east, there is Petersburg, where also Finns lived. One of them rules Russia today... Politicly incorrect, appologies on all sides mentioned slavic genes are also found in Finnland

[@lba6859]

Also siberian component in finns is relatively recent influx.

[@maku987]

Even though Slavic ancestry exists in Finland, it is quite rare. The western ancestry is much more common due to old Scandinavian connections (not from the Swedish ruling era). Minor western ancestry is from the Hanseatic era to the Swedish heyday in the 17th century when Sweden hired officers from North Germany and other northern countries.

[@w.1.-du9gs]

That’s true. But also vice versa, there is Finnic or Uralic (and Siperian) component in Northern Russians.

[@BradBolton-wq6ub]

Interesting side note… in the 1800’s US immigration laws… Finns were NOT considered European! They were often derogatorily referred to as “China Swedes” and treated as Asians!

[@ConradAinger]

To me (Anglo-German), the difference between native Finns and those of Swedish ancestry is readily apparent.

[@ez3333]

😇👍

[@tlmny]

This is 90 % propaganda/nonsense. Finns are not Uralic, and Finnic peoples are the natives on maternal side. The Uralic peoples have roughly 0 % of the most common and founding haplogroup of Sami peoples. Autosomally only 5-6% Asian (3 % of N3). Most of Swedes are just ethnically cleansed Finns, 400 years ago they still spoke finish natively. Y-haplogroups are almost irrelevant, because only 5 % or so of the autosomal genes. Y-haplos are good for propaganda, ignore them if you want the truth. Finnic peoples are the natives of Europe maternally. Paternal side mostly replaced by R and N invaders, who came (mostly) without women.

[@historia-yg9op]

I'm surprised that I understand Scots so well. It's English, but it doesn't sound like English at all.

[@Parttous]

As a clinical geneticist in Finland (I study very rare inherited diseases), our DNA is pretty unique compared to other Europeans. Even most of the software I use always have different categories for Finns and non-Finnish Europeans, when checking for population frequencies for mutations. We also have a bunch of weird genetic disorders that are somewhat common here but unheard of anywhere else due to past bottleneck effects and inbreeding. Salla disease and Northern Epilepsy Syndrome are examples of these.

[@gurglejug627]

Thanks for posting that comment - interesting. Also interesting is that the prime comparison sounds to be 'with other Europeans', as some people argue that Finns are not of European heritage - so as a matter of interest, do you compare your results an work with those of geneticists in Komi-Permyac, Ural areas, Hungary etc? Are your techniques inline with Russian ones - any serious disputes in research findings or methodology?

[@villerantavalli9395]

Yeah, Sallan tauti being the most famous but as I recall there's quite a few of such hereditary gene disorders and one of my cousins has one of the sever ones that affect the heart and kidneys. on top of those he was also born deaf.

[@maku987]

It is "normal" to see rare genetic diseases in drifted population, but it says nothing about the origin. I have not seen much similar rare alleles in Asian populations, but a lot in Saamis.

[@kallekonttinen1738]

Hello from Finland, It would have been worth mentining that Finnic people push Sami people north when they arrived to Finland. Both Sami and Finnic people have their origins in Urals but Sami people arrived here earlier..

[@averagejoeschmoe9186]

That is probably part of the story but the climate also changed and fluctuated during those times. So the Sami, who are reindeer herders, would've gone where the reindeer went, which is further up north. Perhaps some other reasons were there too. They didn't stay below the arctic circle after that because of the competition with new Finnic population but also because their main source of livelihood had migrated to colder climates. That's already two major factors. There is hardly ever a singular thing in these instances that forces changes to occur (such as migration) but there are almost always multiple factors at play, all at once.

[@kallekonttinen1738]

@ there are many speculative details in your message. There is no concrete evidence that Sami people, when they lived in Southern Finland, herded reindeers there.

[@averagejoeschmoe9186]

@kallekonttinen1738 I have lived in a Southern Finnish village where places have been named after reindeer like "Poronrona". That village's history dates back hundreds of years and not just two or three centuries either. There are probably others like it. There's google maps or physical old maps to look at for that. So there's some limited etymological evidence. But of course it doesn't definitively prove that the Sami herded reindeer there but perhaps hunted them? Who's to say? Cattle herding is quite a "new" thing in humanity's history after all. But you don't dispute the changes in climate that I talked about? Because there's plenty of evidence of that happening.

[@kallekonttinen1738]

@ major reason was that Finnic people took control of Southern Finland and pushed Sami people north. It is secondary did Sami people take reindeer herding with them or learned that in the North.

[@averagejoeschmoe9186]

@kallekonttinen1738 I think that it's very important. If your only source of livelihood (whether by hunting or herding) starts to migrate, the climate is experiencing changes AND the new people start pressuring you to move, all at the same time, what would you do? Do you have evidence to the contrary to state otherwise that it wasn't a combination of factors why the Sami moved further north? Do you have a research paper to prove it was just X and not X + A - Y= D? I'd say there's more than enough nuance to these events to state that there were multiple factors at play and not to place the sole blame on us Finns for what happened during those times.

[@Blogger2020]

Now that the West is collapsing, it would be a good idea to join the East😊

[@BFjordsman]

What about Neanderthal percentages

[@user-yt3xd2jl6d]

In some ways it is not incorrect, Asians are characterized by having higher levels than Western Eurasians. Finns and Finn-Ugric peoples are modeled as 4% Neanderthal DNA that is twice the European average and very similar to Asians

[@lba6859]

Don't like the accent of the narrator.

[@ABH-i9v]

I like it

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Don't watch it then

[@wrigleys321]

​@@celtichistorydecodedhehe, ya tell them, man! Nice video. Thanks. Nice accent too😉😁

[@jimmyhvy2277]

soon it will be African !

[@StarkHällDorff]

Genetic history Based on molecular data, a population bottleneck among ancestors of modern Finns is estimated to have occurred about 4000 years ago.[3] This bottleneck resulted in exceptionally low diversity in the Y chromosome, estimated to reflect the survival of just two ancestral male lineages.[13][14] The distribution of Y chromosome haplotypes within Finland is consistent with two separate founding settlements, in eastern and western Finland.[15] The Finnish disease heritage has been attributed to this 4000-year-old bottleneck.[3] The geographic distribution and family pedigrees associated with some Finnish heritage disease mutations has linked the enrichment in these mutations to multiple local founder effects, some associated with a period of "late settlement" in the 16th century (see History of Finland).[16]

[@maku987]

The male bottle neck is known everywhere in Europe. It happened around 5000 years ago. The Finnish male bottle neck existed much later than 4000 yo.

[@mcburcke]

Having been to Finland several times in the past, I can't argue with their genetics...Finnish women are gorgeous! Too bad about the language, however. All the Uralic languages are nearly impenetrable to non-native speakers because of the insanely complicated grammar and vocabulary. I love studying languages, but the Uralics are just too complex to spend the time trying to learn them. You could spend years on them and still not be really fluent.

[@Christ-xf4ej]

Maternal lines are mostly haplogroup H. Language could be anything, it is not located in the genes and language can change in one generation.

[@FedericoDLP]

You forgot the Mongolian DNA

[@freefalling6960]

the finnish language was created by a Swedish priest and the nation has only been active for what, 100 years or something. When the Russians defeated Sweden and got controll of the area they obviously pushed alot of their finno-ugric speakers into the area who would have no problem adopting the finnish language. And alot of Swedes living in what was the eastern part of SWEDEN decided to convert to finnish by changing name and language and thats how you get the genetic mix. This was called the Fennoman movement btw.

[@SoulWeasel69]

Agricola didn't invent the language, he just figured out how to write it. Also he was a Swedish Speaking Finn.

[@freefalling6960]

@@SoulWeasel69 He was a Swedish Priest, not a finn. Birth name: Mikael Olofsson

[@SoulWeasel69]

@@freefalling6960 you are wrong

[@freefalling6960]

@@SoulWeasel69 no

[@Finnic94]

Swedish rage baits suck, seen better ones from blyats

[@jeremiahkivi4256]

Finns are primarily Ugric from what I've been told. Basically, Finland, Estonia, and Hungary are the only Ugrics left. Of course there's been some crossbreeding with Swedes and Russians over the years.

[@lba6859]

All of them genetically different. Though finns and Estonians at least share N, while the origin if Hungarians is suspicious. Taking into account how they change interpretations of their origin

[@jeremiahkivi4256]

@@lba6859 Well yeah, they are significantly different now, at least between Finn/Estonian and Hungarians. We're talking about a common ancestry somewhere in the 5000-10,000 years ago from central Asia.

[@florenna]

You are now confusing linguistic origins (Ugric) with genes of people speaking them. Totally different things.

[@jeremiahkivi4256]

@@florenna The linguistic origins are Uralic. Ugric refers to the ethnic make up.

[@TheBuzzo01]

Hungarians have been exterminated several times in history. Mongol invasion Turkish invasion First and Second World War. There the population is completely replaced every 500 years. The Finns are genetically closer to the Hungarian royal families than the Hungarians living in Hungary today.