Fintan O'Toole | The Unknown Knowns of Ireland | Edinburgh International Book Festival

[@davidmccabe4041]

What a wonderful lecture. In 1959 I was 20 years of age studying accountancy. I read Charles Whittakers plan and it changed my thinking and view of Ireland. However when I qualified in 1962 I went to work with price waterhouse in Paris. I returned to Dublin in 1964 and witnessed a changing Ireland. I worked as financial controller in a multinational company and then embarked on a wonderful 27 year career in investment banking including my final years in the then emerging international financial services centre. I took early retirement at age 56 and served as a non exec director of scores of foreign owned companies. What Fintan says is true, the pictures he paints are valid and I am a living 84 year old enjoying the benefits which Fintan explains. David McCabe Dublin

[@davidmccabe4041]

How true , how true. I am an 86 year old widower and in the 1960s and 1970s my wife and i used to travel to Newry in Northern Ireland every 3 months to purchase contraceptives. FINTAN has an uncanny ability to portray Ireland at that time. Well done indeed.David McCabe Dublin

[@duckbizniz663]

Fintan is such an articulate man. He is able to use simple words to express real world phenomenons that I can never do.

[@pifflepockle]

This is a great skill. Richard Feynman in science. Good people

[@grantmcinnes1176]

It takes wisdom to even realize that's what articulate is! Too many are bamboozled by a large vocabulary and a blustering attitude.

[@pifflepockle]

@@grantmcinnes1176 vote Conservative!!!

[@grantmcinnes1176]

@@pifflepockle lol

[@jamesprice4647]

@@grantmcinnes1176 like Mogg.

[@davidnorman6348]

I read "We don't know ourselves" in hardback as soon as it was published. Having been born in Dublin in 1954 I was on the same wavelength and Fintan supplied much behind-the-scene information to my comparative superficial awareness of Irish culture from 1958 onwards. It's remarkable that one of my favourite books is also di Lampedusa's "The Leopard". Thanks to Fintan for enlightening me on so many aspects of Irish and British politics over the years. (I have been living in Germany since 1977).

[@ATLmodK]

Been listening on audible. Such a revealing book, loving it.

[@matthewbarry376]

With all due respect I wouldn't trust Fintan O'Toole to tell me what the weather was like nevermind trusting anything he says on frankly any topic or subject pertaining to Irelands past, present or future.

[@davidnorman6348]

@@ATLmodK I had always thought it was a "man's" book. Glad to hear women also appreciate it!

[@RebelofIreland]

Fintan provides a Dublin centric view of Irish history and current Irish society. We are more diverse than that.

[@Greetings_From_Cork]

The intro ends at 6:07.

[@mikki3562]

Fintan O'Toole is a well known Dublin middle class journalist and writer, and is also the Irish darling of British academic and media circles for his outright denigration of ireland's struggle for independence against British colonialism. His continuas apologetics for British colonial rule and oppression of Ireland up to the present day have earned him a place among other anti-Irish quisling types as a British establishment's favoured Irishman. He was correctly described as "a traitor and a disgrace" by Joe Tiernan author of ' The Dublin and Monaghan Bombings", recalling O'Toole's rabid condemnation of the state funerals and reinterment of the Irish patriots, including Kevin Barry, hanged by the British rulers at the time of Ireland's War of Independence. While he is often presented on British platforms as representing an Irish perspective, the opposite is actually the case. His work is essentially revisionist apologia for Britain's colonial role in Ireland, for British atrocities and support for British occupation of the norhtern six-counties. For this he is rewarded well.

[@jamesdempsey6296]

Pure conjecture. You are fluting. He wears a very sensible and middling head, a rarity in Ireland which your comment seems to vindicate. He is known by his experience and longevity; an in-house journalist since the 80s. The kind of mindless partisanship - which you’re trying to warp about his person - will forever keep this country muddled.

[@gregobroin7738]

I admire Fenton’s intellect but he takes a few cheap shots at Ireland. Ignores Costellos and Garret Fitzgerald towards “a just society” in the 70’s & 80’s. Ignores Irelands economic fragility (historical underinvestment as part of UK). The societal dependence on the Catholic Church was partly to do with the States dependence on it for education & primary health care (hospitals). Fintan himself owes his education to the CBs. Breaking dependence was always going to be a gradual process. No credit to Irelands well thought out industrial strategy (UK have none) to attract inward investment through incentive and training supports. This success was no accident. No mention that the bombs that killed the bus workers were loyalist or British agents. On the national anthem which does glorifies the national struggle for self determination (is that wrong?) it’s somewhat ironic that an audience of “rebellious Scot’s” should laugh at a our anthem. Fintons analysis is broadly correct and he rightly condemns abuse (& correct on Lemass & Whitaker) but the overview is very patchy and not the whole picture.

[@SonOfViking]

I can see why you might feel justified in pointing out these omissions by Fintan based solely on this interview but if you read the actual book being discussed you would find that much of your criticism is unfounded. Besides the fact that O'Toole has indeed written extensively (and cogently) on all of these topics in the past, in this book he approaches many of these issues too, though through the perspective of someone growing up and experiencing these issues through events as they unfolded. On the subject of the national anthem, all national anthems tend to be at once proud emblems of a people rightly affirming their right to self-determination and simultaneously pathetic when their texts are analysed with even minimal critical scrutiny. Ireland's is simply par for the course in that respect, though I agree that a Scottish audience might do well to familiarise themselves first with the full text of the UK's anthem before they criticise another country's. I think many of them might be rather surprised with how they are referenced in that particular dirge of a ditty!

[@gregobroin7738]

I have read the book & agree it is very good. I respect Fintan hugely but I think he reverted to simplistic memes, even caricatures to a less knowledgeable international audience. I am older than Fintan and lived through those times. Absolute focus on the terrible wrongs of the Catholic Church let’s off the politicians, the civil servants, the judges and the guards (who took the kids away and brought the run always back) - a huge swathe of Irish society was guilty but particularly those aforementioned with a responsibility for oversight & protection of the vulnerable etc. The audience could be forgiven for thinking all the wrongs of Irish society were due to the Catholic church. That’s a cop out!

[@michaelmccarthy9411]

You could at least have the manners to spell his name correctly

[@SonOfViking]

@@michaelmccarthy9411 Yep. He made a few wild stabs at it before he finally nailed it, didn't he? Makes one wonder what some people mean by "respect".

[@gregobroin7738]

@@michaelmccarthy9411 I am sorry I misspelled his name & didn’t notice probably due to predictive typing that often changes words after you type them. I think you will find his name correctly stated later on. I hope your indignation at my typing error has now receded!

[@davidmccabe4041]

I have watched Fintan speak several times about his book and find him much better speaking on the economic changes in Ireland from 1959 although that view may reflect my own interests and age...I was training as a chartered accountant in 1959. David McCabe dublin

[@pnougat5488]

Man lives in a detached bubble

[@KeithWilliamMacHendry]

Fair enough, be more explicit then, let's have your take on it, or would maybe prefer if the gangsters of PIRA ran the country?

[@raybo64]

As to American FDI in Ireland, it's important to understand that Irish FDI in USA is about one third the level of US FDI in Ireland, or the ninth highest FDI in USA. Ireland punches way above its rate in return.

[@dantro542]

🎉

[@tuforu4]

South COUNTY dubliners know ZILCH about hardship..

[@gordondavies7773]

How did change happen so fast... may I suggest free secondary education followed by free access to third level. Ignorance is not bliss, it is the gateway to being gaslighted.

[@joewhelan5018]

Does Fintan know anything about the Paratroopers

[@ckpalmeiras1318]

Sometimes he’s all over the place. The anti H block vote in the Republic in the 1980’s saw never before heard of candidates almost knocking established FF TDs off top spot from Kerry to Louth.

[@tuforu4]

He from SOUTH COUNTY DUBLIN he never had to work.

[@jimmyryan5880]

Skip to 6:00

[@tonycarey9430]

A one man virsion of life in Ireland is a scary thing. Fintan has always known, everything!

[@tomgreene1843]

That might be held by some, but i could not agree ...it's a bit like ''facts have no agenda''!

[@vinstyles]

read his book and it's sensational just sensational

[@gerryhanly3194]

I grew up in Ireland in the 60s 70s 80s and never felt oppressed by the Church in any way. Times were not as bad as Fintan portrays them. I lived in rural Ireland and have great memories of those days. Fintan is in great danger of disappearing up his own ass.

[@backwoodsman]

Exactly. Ask anyone and they'll say the past was a much better place than the "modern Ireland" the media like to talk about. Modern Ireland is a crime ridden expensive kip.

[@taintabird23]

@@backwoodsman There were aspects of the church ridden Ireland that I miss today, but by and large modern Ireland is a far better place to live.

[@matthewbarry376]

​@@taintabird23ignoring superficial stuff why is modern Ireland so much better to live in.

[@taintabird23]

@@matthewbarry376 You need to define superficial.

[@matthewbarry376]

@@taintabird23 superficial=surface level. Think trivial things like next day delivery, Amazon, cheap Ryanair flights, Increasing GDP and GNP, the wide varieties of foods products, restaurants and cuisines, jobs that appear to older people to pay very well but then tax and rent or mortgage gets factored in and suddenly your struggling to pay bills, the ease of getting into college and how cheap college is itself- college is extremely overrated, Visa free travel throughout the Schengen area, etc. I think that If you can't afford to buy a house (because banks are unwilling to give their own depositors mortgages at anything other than extortionate rates), if you don't have the time to actually have a life outside of your work, if your retired parents are more interested in their hobbies than they are in their own grandchildren, if you live in a country which refuses to acknowledge that the country has a serious issue with hemorrhaging young people, if you live in a country where personal enterprise is made as difficult as possible through things like insurance, if drug gangs are in every town and village and are peddling their wares to everyone and anyone, etc these things are far more significant than the superficial positives about "modern Ireland", "Our shared island™", " The best little island in the world to do business in™" "New Ireland" "progressive Ireland"

[@johnclaffey7218]

Of course the Irish Times hates Irish Republicanism and our fight for independence. It’s an English paper, at the time it was under planter control.

[@KeithWilliamMacHendry]

Most planters were Scots & by some number.

[@johnclaffey7218]

@MsMissy it was the English paper of record when we were under the British boot. Nothing changed after we kicked you out. It has always been an anti-Irish rag.

[@taintabird23]

@@johnclaffey7218 It was and remains the Irish paper of record. O'Toole holds a mirror up to unreconstructed republicans, like yourself. You lack the confidence to deal with what you see and you attack him. The funny bit is that you behave like English nationalists who support Brexit when confronted by O'Toole.

[@kieransavage100]

Weather was better abroad,No heating bills….

[@cyberslim7955]

52:20 OMG!!! Shocking!!!

[@michaeloconnor9809]

Why are you shocked. The women of Ireland have had the word "only" put on their existence by Paddy, who has dominated every area of decision making in Ireland either as laymen or priests. Eg in farming eight groups purport to represent farmers, all dominated by men so the women felt obliged to set up their own group Women in Agriculture.

[@themsmloveswar3985]

House. Did you get the words on your card all marked by 12:00 ?

[@stephenconway2468]

Excellent talk.

[@Cybernetic800]

Ireland is the USA's 51st state

[@grf1426]

54.29 They supported BREXIT because they though they were going to get a hard border back on the island As cynical as that

[@IrishPhotoArchive1952]

I was born the same year as Fintan! It brings back the horrific Ireland we were brought up in. And young people think they have it tough 😢

[@backwoodsman]

What was so horrific about it?

[@johnclaffey7218]

I couldn’t understand why Fintan was such a subversive but then I read about his genealogy. He’s an east coast liberal pining for the empire. He never understood Gaelic Ireland. The Anglo influence on our banking, media and education remained after our independence. It has been far more overt since the crash. Bank of Ireland is owned by America finance. Goldman Sachs is exerting control over AIB. Our Garda commissioner is ex M15. Our money is controlled by Europe, our laws are subject to their approval. That our language didn’t recover after independence isn’t failure. It’s policy. Fintan scorns poor backwards Ireland but the problems of his liberal, multicultural Ireland are far worse. Housing is beyond reach of our young, wages are falling in real terms, immigration has made both of those factors what they are. He supports the open border policy beloved by corporations yet pretends to be against the predation this causes.

[@peterroycroft]

Our membership of the European Union has made Ireland far wealthier in Fintan's lifetime (and mine). Our experiment with De Valerian independence, which you would clearly like to return to, left us poor and backward. I left university in 1987 and had to leave the country because we had 17% unemployment and the IMF was on the verge of being called in. We traded some sovereignty as we became the EU rather than the EEC, and the benefits are there for anyone to see, if they want to see. When I moved to the UK in 1987 I wondered if Ireland would ever be able to afford enjoy the standards of the UK welfare state. Today the Irish welfare state and Irish redistribution of income in far superior to the UK which, funnily enough, has gone down the road of blinkered, moronic nationalism, so typified by your comments. I'm just (pleasantly) surprised you didn't mention George Soros. Not that Fintan needs me to defend him, but in the 40 years I have been reading him he has always been on the side of workers and the marginalised and against imperialism, economic and otherwise. But, hey, why let the facts get in the way of propaganda? And what the hell is "Gaelic Ireland" anyway?

[@johnclaffey7218]

@@peterroycroft . Well Mr Roycoft. That’s not a Gaelic name so it’s not surprising you have no idea what Gaelic Ireland is. Ireland joined the EU the same time as the UK. Yet you went there for opportunity. The 80’s were our worse decade for emigration since the 50’s. Fg’s embrace of Keynesian economics were a total disaster. We didn’t have real growth until the early 90’s. The long term goal of all EU treaties is the surrender of all sovereignty. Joining the Euro has been a disaster for us. It was a German/French creation. Do you honestly not know what a Gaelic Ireland is? Or was?

[@johnclaffey7218]

@@peterroycroft Ireland is the most indebted country in the world. If that’s the result of 50 years of EU membership then it has been an absolute failure.

[@peterroycroft]

@@johnclaffey7218 I see you still haven't answered my question about "Gaelic Ireland" is. If you're so shocked that I don't know what it is, please explain it to me. My surname is irrelevant to the question, except to blinkered nationalists who judge people by such silly criteria. The 1980s was a disastrous decade for Ireland, but the disaster was entirely homegrown, as was the collapse of our economy 12 years ago. The EU cannot be blamed for it. It was Keynesian economics that every capitalist in the world resorted to to get the world out of trouble in the most recent global meltdown. Unregulated free market capitalism and banking had brought catastrophe. Keynesian economics, properly employed, is the best way to run an economy. It wasn't properly employed in the 1970s or 1980s by most countries. Please explain how the Euro has been a disaster for Ireland. Since its inception the wealth per capita of the average citizen has increased substantially. I'm not saying that can be attributed to joining the Euro, but if it were a disaster I think the economy would hardly have grown the way it has, despite the suicidal economic policies of FF and the PDs back in the noughties. Yes, the long term goal of EU treaties is "ever closer union". They don't hide it. I am happy to lose some sovereignty to be part of a large market in a world where large players such as the US and China like to bully smaller countries with their economic muscle. It was the EU who had our backs during Brexit and defended the Good Friday agreement. It is far from a perfect organisation but on the evidence of our experience as an independent country, I'll stick with the EU. It seems most of the country shares my opinion as opinion polls show us as the most pro-EU country in the union.

[@johnclaffey7218]

@@peterroycroft language, customs, laws. Keynesian economics don’t work in democratic societies. Cyclical elections guarantee the saving in good times never happen. It has though guaranteed that central banks, which are privately owned, keep inventing money out of nowhere. We have higher debt per capita than any other western nation. That’s not wealth. It’s the opposite. Europe is not a buffer between the US and China. It has been directed by the US since 1945. The Ukraine war proves it. Europe has slit its own throat following US warmongering. Ask any young person if this is a wealthy country. They will never be able to buy a house or start a family. They’re leaving in droves. The economic arguments you love are worthless. We’re a long way from single markets and no tariffs. We had that without political union.

[@leonardniamh]

The Catholic Church own education & health 😮

[@gordondavies7773]

The next battle.

[@conoranthonycrowley6852]

I reckon he is the smartest man in Ireland.

[@themsmloveswar3985]

You just insulted everybody with any honesty.

[@dashingeduardosuarez]

Jesus, you need to get out more

[@etfee1622]

No Conor, I think you are

[@gordondavies7773]

The Soviets came to authoritarianism from the left, Hitler and Mussolini from the right ... the GOP is trying to get there from the racist and religious right, the Tories from the centre right. De Valera and Mcquaid tried to get there from their knees before the altar. They nearly succeeded.

[@interestedpart2650]

Hitler from the right! Really!? kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3TOqop4hcaHeZo

[@davidmccabe4041]

I was married in Dublin in 1965 and my wife and I used to get our contraceptives by post from a newry chemist in plain brown envelopes. Every 6 months we would drive to newry and pay our chemist friend in precious sterling. David McCabe now aged 84, Dublin ireland

[@davidmccabe4041]

The foreign direct investment programme was part of my life and career and the IDA deserves great praise in its promotion of Ireland being an ideal location for investment being English speaking, a common law system, democratic processes, surplus graduates from universities plus returning graduates, a 10% corporate tax rate all suitable for the export of high value/low volume products such as pharmaceuticals, medical equipment and less so dairy products. And then the IFSC. Now aged 84 I have been blessed beyond measure. David McCabe chartered accountant

[@charlesbeauchamp5111]

Ireland + Scotland + Wales + Northern Ireland + The Islands + England = The Federated Union (TFU) that can, in union, (re)join the EU with pride and prospect.

[@kevfitz8087]

No thanks

[@drts6955]

Lol man you must know very little about this part of the world!

[@josiekaposie5783]

Hate it when interviewers grovel to their guest , Caoilinn do your job professionally .

[@youkeepwalking]

The interviewer needs to let him speak...she seems to love the sound of her own voice too much

[@SeeWoelfin]

Did we watch the same interview?

[@youkeepwalking]

@@SeeWoelfin Yep.

[@leonardniamh]

BS HAS HE BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK LATELY

[@KeithWilliamMacHendry]

I am sure the supporters of PIRA will be grinding & gnashing their teeth at Fintan, good on you Fintan.