Fire Emblem Fates but everything is silver

[@cullenhutchison6528]

Bronze weapons being unable to crit is not new to Fates; it was the case when they were first introduced in Radiant Dawn as well.

[@radlee13]

Can't believe the cure for slight stat debuffs is toxic yuri. The more you know.

[@opalyasu7159]

me at first: "how bad can this possibly be?" (remembers the stat penalties) me: oh god...

[@kittenfan7664]

a big part of this is also how they FEEL. a lot of people feel like silver weapons cripple uints. especially legendary weapons. you need to be in a class that can even reach S rank to use one, and then my strengh gets HALVED for the next combat? silver weapons are a bit of an extention to this. to me silver weapons are a reward for increasing weapon ranks. the penalty from them feels like you need to pretend the unit is now extreamly squishy for the turn you use it, or else the unit will have like 10 turns of waiting before they become ok again. the punishment, while workable still feels EXTREAMLY BAD due to how much it stacks. the legendary weapons feel way worse though becuase of how the legendary weapon debuff works, and how late you get them. if i need to jump through so many hoops to even use this thing, why does it HALF MY STRENGTH FOR THE NEXT FIGHT.

[@lpfan4491]

It is so cursed how Garon somehow has the only S-rank weapon that's not complete poo but is actually really good.

[@ultimaterecoil1136]

Waterwheel’s not that bad. It’s effectively another guard naginata which is amazing even despite the lackluster damage because of the bulk.

[@ungulatemanalpha]

I think the silver weapon debuff feel way more appropriate on the one non-silver weapon that has it: the Lightning tome. Maybe the legendary weapon penalty of halving your strength every other attack could have worked better on the silver weapons, and the legendary weapons would be free to be broken as last hurrahs for units that got to S rank at the end of the game in a game where high weapon ranks are pretty tough to qualify for and obtain.

[@audreyii5087]

Only 30 seconds in but hell yeah, the Fates weapon balancing rules. It makes purchasing a weapon feel far weightier than buying like, 6 of each iron weapon and throwable every time you stagger across a shop lol

[@DaniDoyle]

0:30 is so true and real tho...

[@Blackberry-Mochi]

Any playthrough without Lyn and Florina (Hana and Subaki) is a depressing run indeed.....

[@greentea0956]

I love your videos sm, I watched the entire stream and now I’m watching the entire edited version and you are so awesome, fav FE channel can’t wait till ur next challenge run!

[@MommyRexacuse]

This video was a lot of fun! I think it was mainly so easy because of the enemy debuffing haha, but I always enjoy these challenge run videos. I think the biggest problem with silver weapons is the price on them. As this challenge run aptly shows, having high damage isn’t the most important thing in fates. The tradoff for silver weapons might be worth it, if the weapons didn’t cost 4000 gold each. Yes, they do have their use cases, but is a silver weapon really 4x more valuable than an iron weapon? Especially when you could instead just buy four iron weapons and forge them together, the price of silver weapons is the main thing holding them back.

[@theoreticallymoss]

I think that’s a fair point. It’s not one I usually consider as I don’t use the forge due to that requiring the passing of time, visiting other people’s castles, getting lucky ore finds, or just using a cheat code to get 99 of all ores. So as someone who typically avoids that feature, silver weapons are amazing. And the cost never seems too bad considering you get a few silver weapons for free as per the story and I’m not really using that money on much else thanks to unbreakable weapons.

[@Samur-ye9lk]

Honestly, I'd argue the issue is not entirely the price. Rather, I think it's Forging Itself that makes silver weapons look so bad. If you can make a cheaper, con-less iron weapon into something as effective as a silver weapon then it raises the question of why Silver Weapons are needed. In stuff like the kids DLC, where you can't forge anything, then the balance with Silver weapons shines.

[@blueluna1029]

To be fair, there is actually good reason to buy a silver over forging an iron +2. They're the same price like you said, but the silver will have more might and the same hit (for example, an iron bow +2 is 12 mt 80 hit, whereas a silver bow is 15 mt 80 hit). So it's a tradeoff between whether you want the higher immediate power, or the lack of the debuff. And honestly, if it's a unit who's primarily attacking on player phase, I'm taking the silver

[@hawkeye611]

@@theoreticallymoss I think in Conquest, you're given no silver weapons, so that might contribute to it as well.

[@nicocchi]

I think my biggest issue with Silver weapons in Fates is that the debuff just keeps stacking. Even in FEH if you eat a debuff, only the highest one counts and that's as low as your stats are going. Like, if you needed a power boost and then took a huge debuff that's fine it would be interesting to take out a strong enemy and then you have to battle trash with lowered stats, but as Silver weapons were implemented, using them at all is kinda just unthinkable if you don't go and trade it away 'cause you're gonna debuff yourself to hell on enemy phase.

[@cman5516]

Not helped by it just being Silver Weapons (and some RNG weapons) that work like this in fates, Shurikens/Daggers don't stack, enfeeble can't stack, dragonic hex doesn't stack, hell half stat debuffs can't stack, it's just silver weapons. It creates a whole group of weapon that isn't officially enemy exclusive, but feels bad enough for most players to use that it becomes that way.

[@skarloey1214]

Great video Moss ❤

[@AbytheProphet]

2:23 thomas gunter threw me LOL

[@cullenhutchison6528]

Personally, I dislike the higher level weapon debuffs in Fates for two reasons. First, it adds senseless complication to the combat system (and one of the issues I have with Fates combat as a whole is how complicated it is without having comparable depth)-there are simpler ways to make the weapons not as good. This gets into the second point: I don't like how increasing weapon rank doesn't always provide access to better weapons; I think there's no reason not to reward the player with better weapons at higher levels. I know this is somewhat present in previous games with some higher level weapons being heavier and having less durability, but that's the sort of simpler, more logical feature I'm talking about. By the way, the reason it was so easy was because the enemies were stuck with silver weapon debuffs too. There's a reason people normally avoid them, even NPCs.

[@theoreticallymoss]

Sure, NPCs were also debuffed. But a lot of endgame NPCs already use silver weapons (which was notably the easiest part of the run). And I mostly one-shot enemies, so they rarely suffered the debuffs as compared to me. The only time it really came into effect were the bosses I outright noted in the video. Anyone who caught the run live would be able to note as much.

[@cullenhutchison6528]

@@theoreticallymoss You did mention several times that you used tanks to allow enemies to debuff themselves before you took them out. But regardless, perhaps I should specify that the _main_ reason it was easy is because the game isn't too difficult in the first place.

[@limechips4289]

i think my argument against that is, without a patch that gives you 99 of every resource, you cant always forge every weapon. so getting a x4 forge on, say, an iron dagger might not be reasonable, at least for time. especially if you got the wrong resource to forge the weapon you want to forge. silver weapons sort of act as a half-decent alternative to forging.

[@lpfan4491]

@@limechips4289 The issue with that counter-argument is that the game is supposed to be played with online features and I don't recall if conquest limits the amount of castles you can visit, but something tells me no(It also does not limit the amount of times you can play DLC, which is argubly more broken). And then you can easily farm resources for iron forges. If anything, this makes it more reasonable to grind iron than to normally build up some other, rarer weapons.

[@yoshidoor5229]

@@lpfan4491it actually does limit the amount of castle visits by like 3. Personally speaking, I appreciate the drawbacks most of the weapons have, my real issue are the ones with absurd drawbacks, like nearly all the S-rank weapons, since halving strength is way more absurd then -4 defense, or no crits

[@CringeRat]

7:31 this is fantastic and I absolutely adore it XD ♥

[@blueluna1029]

Just found your channel and I'm enjoying the vids so far, and I definitely agree with you on the weapons system. Would enjoy seeing an essay about it from a game design perspective like you mentioned if you ever do make a video like that (if I don't make it first that is lol)

[@user-ud1qf4qn5o]

Maybe the true debuffs were the Yuri that we lost along the way

[@fluffydemon1]

I feel like the reason people generally avoid silver weapons and the legendary weapons is because being told you're gonna get debuffed for using a weapon is generally a detractor from using said weapon. I know that's the reason why I usually avoid using silver weapons and almost never use the s rank weapons in this game. Kinda hard to justify it when you can get similar or the same damage from a forged weapon.

[@MildlyAggressiveOni]

When I was younger, in what I think was a Revelations run, I was using exclusively silver weapons to train supports between 2 characters, and I didn't know the weapons debuff stacked, and lost those characters due to that oversight. Certainly not my brightest moment...

[@BigBoyFargo]

You know I probably would have had a much easier time in my last conquest run if I had used silver weapons. I routinely found myself just short of ORKOs that could have been resolved by stronger weapons, ill try to use them more in future runs!

[@thefrubblewarrior4678]

23:22 Hey, doomed Yuri counts as toxic Yuri right?

[@lpfan4491]

The one dislike comes from a vampire.

[@thefrubblewarrior4678]

FE but everyone gets tired of swinging their weapons.

[@jeanegreene374]

TBH I really only dislike how some weapons get completely shafted by their debuff (crescent bow, waterwheel, hagakure blade, etc) while others such as Lightning and the Brave weapons get off with extremely minor ones. With how much of a chore it is to get S rank weapon levels on people, it makes acquiring and using them depressing compared to the very strong strat of just forging a bronze / iron weapon to +4 and being as strong as the S rank weapons anyway.

[@bernardwalsh8444]

Ngl. The PSA worked, i don't think Silver Weapons are as bad as i thought. Was fun to finally see one of these runs live...and also to realise the greatness of Setsuna

[@codename618]

It always catches me so off guard every time I watch one of these videos and see the horses get replaced with Thomas the Tank Engine. 😅

[@KuroAsterisk]

Huh, never would have guessed pre-Branch of Fate used Conquest AI. I wonder if that was an oversight that went unnoticed because I don’t see the point in implementing then

[@theoreticallymoss]

Who knows. It may or may not have been intentional. But it’s also very rarely noticeable unless you get good def growths on Corrin while feeding them experience. If it were intentional, then maybe it was done to prevent you from putting ALL the experience on Corrin alone.

[@KuroAsterisk]

@ Or maybe this is some ludonarrative sign that foes can sense when Corrin is Nohr aligned and will implement Conquest AI, because pre-Branch of Fate Corrin is unquestionably Nohrian through and through lmao

[@Blackberry-Mochi]

Honestly I wasn't paying enough attention to realize Conquest has its own AI. I thought the "don't fight a pointless battle" thing was universal, because, like, that makes sense, right??? But I guess that would get in the way of, uh, rout maps maybe. But that's what god invented AUTO COMBAT FOR

[@genesisno1918]

Surprised Keaton did not die

[@darth8156]

All of this, is exactly my opinion. (Also Fates is my fav Fe as well^^)

[@VeXJL]

I think the debuffs are fine, I just think Silvers just need better stats... Like, I would never normally use a Silver Lance, but I am super content w/ using Xander's Lance which, compared to Silver Lance, is -2 Mt, +5 Ddg, +13 Hit, and disables crit. It's actually kinda fun to use Xander's Lance, but I never really get that w/ Silver Lance. Similarly, we can also look at Lightning which has the same debuffs but more than makes up for it by having a very powerful and unique brave effect.

[@nameless55697]

15:54 Sorry for that one

[@Me_Mike_sus]

So much silver. Are you slaying a werewolf or something?

[@bobthegamingtaco6073]

Nah, corrin just wanted to show off that double Princess money and bling out not just her weapons, but even the enemies too.

[@kainrich6183]

You could do an fire Emblem engage Challenge, random classes or weapon types

[@Ribombastic]

I don't think silver weapon debuffs are that big of a deal as long as you don't spam them on enemy phase or something like that, though they've always felt a bit too expensive. I appreciate any free silver weapons the game hands you for that reason.

[@SparkyPixel]

Sorry for killing some people. Lol.

[@DarthMizaru]

They are bad due to how we are used to play FE, we use few strong units to hold choke points and especially in Birthright with all the rout maps. Thats why we use iron and joke 1-2 range weapons as the most effective tactic.

[@boserboser6870]

aye, the weapons of fates follow the ethos of conquest and work well for conquests gameplay but fit terrably in birthright where enemy combat is wayyy more important

[@fortello7219]

I've played 5 Fire Emblem games now, and my conclusion is I only like Fates. (Mechanically) I'm basically a ride or die for unbreakable weapons

[@bobthegamingtaco6073]

Well, you do you. I like that limited weapon uses means I can't grind as much, because I cannot control myself and would absolutely grind to 20/20 on most units if given the chance (such as the arena in Blazing Sword and Sacred Stones) that, and I like that I can't use my most powerful death ray tomes all the time, makes it feel like a big event when I decide to use it, like firing the death star.

[@digplayz5740]

I like Fates :)

[@YellowNekro]

"We recruit takumi and oboro. Now I know people hat on Takumi..." me that hates on oboro bc she makes Takumi more r4cist: 👁👄👁