Firecom - Tiller Training with Steve Crothers

Operating a tractor-drawn aerial is no easy task, and Steve Crothers with Tractordrawnaer... knows how put tiller operators through the paces to get them ready. Using wireless headsets, they can see every maneuver to coach operators in-the-moment for more dynamic and effective training.
View Firecom Wireless Headsets: www.firecom.com...

[@TheBaseballBatBros]

That is so cool with the driver in the back

[@nike3000ca]

Me: We don't have a tiller. I don't need this training. Also me: But..... I want this training. 😂🤣

[@Spahi77]

NYC Fire Department tiller guys are the best of the best....i have seen some maneuvers at dizzying speedd

[@jimmartin7881]

It's NYC, they're not breaking 45-50.

[@PIPER1084]

@@jimmartin7881 go more basic HS physics then that. You also need to factor in the bike messenger that very likely could be coming at you at 15-25 mph in the opposite direction playing, thread the needle chicken, with the ever shrinking gap between the rig and the parked cars!

[@jamesrader3329]

That is the best place to be. I tried the tiller a few years ago. Had soooo much fun.

[@nyxthanatos869]

As a rear tiller driver I know what it’s like and we’ll here we’re I live the streets are really tight and one wrong move and your flipping the truck so we take them with some one like me who has 3 years of doing it on the street with 14 wreckers fallowing us

[@alvinshakoor787]

My hats off to you. I can see this requires skill 💪

[@HelloKittyFanMan.]

"Rear tiller"? As opposed to... a "front tiller"?

[@alvinshakoor787]

Wow this is really cool. Always wondered what the guys do back there

[@midnyte6195]

😃now we know!

[@mitchjohnson4714]

They should practice hitting the cones with specific parts of the tiller (like corners or the side) to teach spacial awareness.

[@TurtleSauceGaming]

The object is to not hit the cones.

[@jamesdukes597]

@@TurtleSauceGaming exactly these guys know what they are doing

[@TurtleSauceGaming]

@@jamesdukes597 So fun fact, when you are driving an engine, or even an ambulance for that matter, you won't know you hit a cone. When I went for CEVO, people not running the course were on lookout to point out cones hit by the driver. Hell my father was driving the engine and ran over the wheel chock. He drove down the street 5 minutes to our destination. Only reason he realized he had ran it over and gotten it lodged in between the two wheels side by side was, when he went to get the wheel chock, it wasn't there, and he noticed the wheel chock between the two wheels and the wheel well. 0 feeling that it was wedged there. No damage even.

[@JG-kb6dp]

Did you not watch the video?

[@mitchjohnson4714]

@@JG-kb6dp Did you not read my comment?

[@guiximenes]

That's super cool. Didn't even know they existed.

[@chief1945]

24 years on a TDA ... I tillered and drove TDA's in Trenton NJ FD. 1979 American LaFrance 100ft and a 1997 Simon Duplex LTI 100ft. Driving in a cone course is entirely different then on the street. Cones are ok for getting your feet wet or getting the 'feel' of the steering mechanics involved, but its not like being on the street. The cones will give where a car, tree, truck, jersey divider, light post and so on will not. Tight streets, cars parked right on the corners and stupid drivers to deal with are only a small part of driving and tillering a TDA. Been down streets so tight we couldn't get the compartment doors open and had to squeeze out the cab doors. Then add a foot or two of snow and ice, brand new ball game then. Speaking of ice, in the '79 ALF, we were stopped at traffic light on a really icy street that had a high crown. I was tillering and we were not moving at all, the trailer decides to start to slide sideways towards a few parked cars that were about 2 ft away. I hollered to the driver over the intercom to look in his right mirror, 'OH SHIT' he said! He had cars in front of him so he couldn't move. The trailer slid and stopped about 4 inches before hitting the park cars. Weirdest thing. Anyway, for 'breaking in the new guys', we use to go into State and County parking lots where there were no cars but lots of curbed islands and trees and we did use a few cones. If you hit a curb, you knew you hit something not like a cone, the rig would sake and the driver would be on the intercom saying WTH did you hit??? lol Also, we would make the tillerman candidate back through the entire course to simulate backing down a narrow street and we had tons of those narrow streets. Keep in mind too, the guy driving the front can make or break the tillerman's job. IF you have a good driver that tillered before, he will understand what its like to do his job well so the tillerman can make it around the obstacles and not hit anything. Besides, if you, the tillerman hits something, the driver gets the ticket not you. The driver has the brakes, you don't. So if you don't want to get your 'ass beat', you better do a good job tillering and not hit anything. Best thing is to take your time and get there, you can't help anyone if you are now tied up at an accident scene when you should be at the working fire doing your job. Ya gotta get there to help. As for maneuverability, we use to get the ladder around corners and down streets where the engine, a 1983 Hahn and then a KME Squirt couldn't make the turns. The length of our TDA's, counting the cab was about 55/60 ft +/- bumper to bumper and about 30tons +/-. Hope this helps. I loved the job, miss the guys but glad Im retired!

[@TurtleSauceGaming]

We got a tiller in a county seat out here. I'd love to have the experience, but the department is really no the kind of department you want to work for, even as a volunteer. Shame. Maybe one day. But parking lots are great. We always used this one here at the end of one row of parking spots, it has a road with a drainage ditch on one side with a light post dead center and an island with a tree with some low hanging branches on the other. Drive through it, then back through it. Good for getting that initially feel and beating in spacial awareness not just horizontally, but vertically. Also, you pointed out a great thing. in a fire engine or even an ambulance, you hit a cone you won't notice. Hell we had a guy run over the wheel chock and took it all the way to the call with him without knowing it. Just lodged between the outer and inner wheel. Fortunately no damage and it wasn't very far on the road. Hell of a time getting it out though.

[@MoparGuy1625]

I'd love to do this

[@dominickwood905]

What great teachers!

[@merkurin5183]

Imagine having trucks that are so big, you need two drivers lol

[@Steve-tj9on]

Lol??? What ground have you been living in? Let me guess UK right?

[@barclaybenjamin6322]

Tualatin Valley Fire & Rescue, and Clackamas Fire District #1, look like they're switching to all tiller trucks. Other than maneuverability, are there other advantages to tillers?

[@lemonshuh6340]

Storage is better.

[@barclaybenjamin6322]

Lemons Huh Thank you!

[@visionist7]

They're sexier

[@justanotheraviator2357]

@@visionist7 that's the most important one!😂

[@EdwardBliffin]

I've seen these but never know what they were actually called

[@elliothagen9874]

I always called them ladder trucks.As I was told by my older brother. Then I was told their called tiller trucks.

[@jasonharper2601]

rough ride back there

[@HelloKittyFanMan.]

Are these trucks longer than full-length-trailer semis? If not, then do they just need a tiller because they're more likely to go down narrower streets with more curves, and semis typically don't, or... what, exactly?

[@stampdealer]

Not necessarily longer than a semi, but they are much more maneuverable with the steerable rear tires. Typically you will see them in inner city fire depts, but we also have one here in the part of Columbus where I work - much to my surprise. Apparently a lot of suburban neighborhood designs can make it tough for some of the larger engines to get in an out, so a tiller truck is a better fit. I have an uncle who was a tillerman in inner city Cleveland, so I've always been fascinated by these.

[@HelloKittyFanMan.]

Yes, @@stampdealer, they fascinate me too even though I have no family in this industry. So I guess it's about blending the likelihood that these are in the smaller streets more with more need for speed while in them.

[@secondghost]

That sure is a nifty piece of engineering.

[@midnyte6195]

I like when they add GoPro cams in there too😃

[@bobbethurum9177]

Someone that was watching another video just couldn’t wrap his head around steer opposite!! He INSISTED that the Tillerman was steering just like the main driver!

[@adambrady9989]

I first trained on a video game called Tillerman

[@COBRA29GTL]

Is that the old Newberg mill? Tillers spread the weight out more than a single unit ladder, more maneuverable than a standard semi truck with someone steering the trailer, I am a truck driver and drove a ladder truck on volunteer department, not a tiller though :(

[@PierceFan]

Current trucks with all wheel steering are just as capable. I could see how it has more storage though.

[@justanotheraviator2357]

Tiller is still better, because it is manual.

[@TurtleSauceGaming]

Tillers are utilized when you need long ladders to get through tight areas. It's why you'll see so many in cities. Tall buildings that need those long ladders, and streets that just can't fit them. But yeah I guess you get storage too...

[@solarissv777]

@@TurtleSauceGaming in Europe streets are even narrower and ladders are longer and no need for tillers. But with three caveats: all steering commercial cabovers and cab in front trucks are readily available as a chassis for an aerial, the aerial mounting mechanism is different: it allows the ladder to be stored in much more compact way, but it reduces the vehicle's carrying capacity. Thus European aerials usually have crew of one or two and only minimum equipment, while engines usually carry 8-10 men and all the equipment usual American engine and ladder company would carry combined.

[@Steve-tj9on]

Love tillering

[@gerry343]

When he's finished the training, is there tea for the tillerman?

[@gremmann]

Why don’t they use steering balls on the steering wheel?

[@HelloKittyFanMan.]

Pretty interesting! It reminds me of an episode of Seinfeld! Now, I know this video is less than 5 years old as of my reply here. But now they're working on an electric replacement of this, right? They have the technology to do just about anything like that now, right?

[@anubhavpal5782]

electronic replacement ?

[@HelloKittyFanMan.]

@@anubhavpal5782: Not quite what I said, but yeah, while we're on the subject, I'll say that an electric replacement of the rear driver would require some electronics too, because it would have to be automatic, since the main driver wouldn't have the attention span to control both the main wheel and a basic wired remote version of this at the same time.

[@Blazer02LS]

Not really, it would take much more computer and sensor power on a heavy truck like this to make it autonomous. When you consider that the tillerman isn't just the driver/engineer but also a firefighter on the scene and needed to operate the ladder and perform fireground operations why replace them with technology that now eliminate that person from the apparatus and increases the cost a lot.

[@HelloKittyFanMan.]

@@Blazer02LS: I'm not saying it necessarily in the sense of eliminating one of the fighters, but just making it so they don't have to worry about doing that work (get it accurate, etc.). Why do you believe it would take all that sensor and processing? Why not just something elementary that's just a control wheel that receives input from the front steering wheel and then sends that same amount, or whatever appropriate ratio, of turn to the rear steering's stepper/servo motor?

[@Blazer02LS]

@@HelloKittyFanMan. Simple system would never work in this application because of all the variables. The steering cannot be linked that way because of that. Say you are turning a 90 degree corner, but there are cars on both sides then one lane ahead of you is blocked. With a tillerman in there he can maneuver the rear axle to steer around all the obstacles. Linked steering cannot do that because you sometimes need to counter steer or crab the tail while the tractor is turning at the same time. Electronics would need sensors to see all of the obstacles from street level to overhead, both sides and in front so the tiller can be threaded through the traffic or other obstacles. It's a really tough job to do while avoiding everything because the tiller driver cannot see the sides very well.

[@ColdFlight824]

Tualatin valley fire and rescue is my fire department I saw them at one of my neighbors and I saw the tiller driver

[@Ferr1963]

They should replace the cones with mannequins pretending to take selfies. At the end of the day, the aim is not to run over stupid people who do not move out of the way of the Tiller. They can also add an Uber blocking a junction.

[@ANOther-yx6pl]

It reminds me of Kramer on Seinfeld

[@sebofo]

Seems this would benefit from a smaller steering wheel with not so many turns between the endpoints, or a joystick. The person steering can barely keep up

[@cIick_bait]

too heavy for a smaller steering box, and not enough leverage from a smaller steering wheel. its all about mechanical advantage

[@elliothagen9874]

Good video

[@krendilsshieldheart6344]

Oh god imagine having a bad day Like everything is just not working for you and having to drive that......

[@TheCOZ]

They were cones!

[@sandyoxv]

Did he ever turn in the wrong direction

[@pigjubby1]

The most common accident is over tillering into a car. For example, swinging out to the left on a right hand turn and not correcting enough and striking a car on the left side.

[@voxhumana2able]

TVF&R! 🔥

[@realhashbrown]

TVFR!! HELL YEAH!

[@tjlovesrachel]

2 q sirens …. I love it

[@nickwiehe5882]

Damn that’s satisfying

[@feynthefallen]

Tiller steering fire trucks is a very American concept. Why invest research in more compact fire trucks when you can tackle the problen by making it even bigger?

[@robertheinkel6225]

Smaller trucks can’t carry the ladders needed to reach up several stories. You will notice this a primarily a ladder truck, with fire fighting capabilities, while the smaller trucks are pumpers.

[@TurtleSauceGaming]

100 foot areal ladder that needs to go down a narrow road. There's really no other way to accomplish that.

[@feynthefallen]

@@TurtleSauceGaming Isn't there now? I was under the impression that roads are generally wider or as wide in the US as the ones in western Europe. They certainly ain't narrower. So our ladders are 100ft as well, and they don't have tiller steering. People still get rescued. Tell me how that can be then.

[@feynthefallen]

@@TurtleSauceGaming Hint: If you want to know how it's possible, go compare some photos of US and EU ladders. It'll change your life.

[@duncansiror5033]

@@feynthefallen Why are you being so negative?

[@grahammiller9834]

anyone else notice that double Q!?!?

[@fedesh883]

Must be easier for sailors

[@TheHairybaz]

no spinner? fucks that all about?

[@Demidar]

lmao or get trucks that turn their backwheels too..

[@littledeel]

Apparatus

[@ThePiquedPigeon]

Tiller truck rodeos! Find me something more AMERICAN than that!!

[@jamesmolkenbuhr956]

I want to go back to the days when American LaFrance was the front runner. Pierce is everywhere now and their equipment is bland and boring.

[@MrJLee-ri3so]

Isn’t ALF bankrupt?

[@largemarge1603]

Blah! That music detracts from the message.

[@buzman1985]

Your headsets suck. Sig electronics all the way.

[@eagle7757]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9, Jesus Christ is the only. way.

[@jeffsmith9351]

Faith is mental illness

[@MoparGuy1625]

I'd love to do this