Firmware Update Adds Dirac Live Compatibility to Select Marantz and Denon AV Receivers

[@timothylinn]

I have a Marantz CINEMA 50. After running Audyssey room correction I was stunned at how the whole room came into focus. I was following very specific instructions given as part of an Audioholics KZbin video that included a rep from Sound United (IIRC), Gene, and a professional installer. Then I hooked up a different, much more expensive receiver, one with DIRAC, in the same room with the same system. My expectations were high. I came away unimpressed. I don't know if it was the more difficult calibration process, or the lack of similar detailed instructions from industry professionals, but there definitely wasn't the wow factor that I enjoyed with the Audyssey calibration. All of this is to say that there is NO WAY I'm paying $350 to add this capability to my CINEMA 50 without the ability to listen to the results first.

[@The3hunnaa]

I have a denon 4800H and have audyssey calibration as well. I’m just curious. Have you calibrated it with the audyssey multieq app on iOS/android. Or you just did the in-receiver calibration?

[@timothylinn]

@@The3hunnaa I used the app. Edit: I should add that while Audyssey did bring the room into focus, by which I mean it created a very cohesive sound field with excellent imaging, it also reduced the impact of low frequencies considerably. The resulting frequency response was clearly smoother and less congested but the loss of low frequency impact was the trade off. I modified the response curve using the app to augment the bass. That helped but it didn't fully resolve the issue. What did largely resolve the issue was combining my custom curve with a slight bump of the simple bass control.

[@pgreen0001]

I remember when we were told the 8805 was future-proofed. I really wish manufacturers would stop using that term. It’s meaningless by now.

[@jayjustgames1725]

I agree. I have the av7706 and can't get this upgrade.

[@mattgiunt]

Would love to see Dirac Live in future create a separate box with all Dirac software in it that you could buy and connect to any receiver.

[@ebarbie5016]

Previus Denon AVRs were always limited to a 48kHz processing for Auddyssey. What's the current sampling rate for the Dirac implementation? If it's still 48kHz, than this is very disappointing... I really home it's at least 96kHz at 32bit

[@fritzmeier3573]

I prever to be called a "customer" over "consumer". Makes me less feel like a necessary part of a money printing machine and more like a ... Well, more like a customer. Thank you for this great collaboration!

[@stefanklein1863]

Can you tell, wether Dirac is working internally at a maximum of 48khz (like Audyssee) or does it go higher?

[@alexasigno]

Would be great if Dirac published an FAQ about how their licences work, potentially you could be paying ~$1000 for full Dirac with bass control. There's nothing around how the licences work in regards to if I sold my Cinema 50 and upgraded to the Cinema 40 can I transfer it? All I know is that it's tied to the user and the hardware, which makes me think that if you sell the hardware and upgrade, you've wasted $1k as it wouldn't even put the value up on the old AVR.

[@level80888]

I asked Dirac in direct message. They football me back to Massimo. Actually this is a big mess. Licensing policy is very confusing.

[@timothylinn]

This is a really good question. I own a receiver that came with DIRAC included. I wrote to DIRAC to ask a very similar question. DIRAC blew me off. I never heard back. What happens, for example, if you pay for a DIRAC upgrade and a month later the receiver goes t!ts up. The company may replace the receiver for you but do you need to buy _another_ DIRAC license? Ironically, this exact scenario played out with that very receiver. Fortunately, I hadn't paid for the DIRAC upgrade. (And still haven't.)

[@alexasigno]

@@level80888 I managed to get out of Dirac that if you sell your AVR with a Dirac upgrade it won't be transferable with the AVR to the new user as it's tied to the original customer. They've completely ignored me about what happens if your AVR gets replaced due to a fault, or if you want to upgrade etc.

[@alexasigno]

@@timothylinn I find it shocking that there is no transparency at all over their licencing. I've emailed them and DM them, and they either ignore me or just answer to one part of the question.

[@alexasigno]

Well finally heard back from Dirac. The licence is tied to that specific hardware and user. If you sell the AVR the licence won't transfer as not the same user. If you buy a new AVR you can't transfer the licence. If your AVR fails and gets replaced under warranty you're screwed. I really wanted to buy the full Dirac with DLBC when it was out next year, but at ~$900 with their licencing terms no way. I'll stick with Audyssey 32 and my MiniDSP HD using MSO for multi sub optimisation. No idea why as a worst case they can't charge you a transfer fee.

[@psyphonyxaudio]

ENVIOUS!!! ... Japan !

[@sovereign257]

Im with you. I bought a 4700 right before the 800 released. I'm sad.

[@JonMoralesLA]

@@sovereign257 I lucked out as I had the 4700 In the 45 day BestBuy return window when I found out the 3800 was already released. Returned it just in time.

[@florinbizu7583]

Off-topic, but regarding actual flagships from Denon and Marantz. Digital technology implemented in flagships AV processors (of different mass producers like the ones of the top 3 in the world - Denon, Marantz, Yamaha - not the more 'exotic' brands like Lyngdorf, StormAudio or Trinnov) has to be comparable on the level of digital components and technology used in flagships of smartphone producers like Huawei, Xiaomi, Samsung, Apple, Honor. Because in digital tech, what is the flagship component today, will become obsolete in just a year or two... This is why in 2023, I don't want to buy old, outdated technology at an unjustified cost! Only the newest and best-performing components have to be used and I don't see this in AV10 or in the Denon AVR A1H... In regards only to the audio side of the Marantz AV10... My level of expectation at 7000 USD (or even more) is that I need one AV unit to sound like a flagship stereo, on ALL channels! BTW...let's be totally honest... ...who is using a 16...19 channels configuration in a living room? Or zones... Zone 2, zone 3... Who is really willing to deploy kilometers of wires for zone 2 or zone 3 connections in which the end result is to play the same music everywhere, instead of separate very good quality audio components in those rooms? We are not talking about hearing the same music in corridors or on an elevator of a hotel, because who really wants this? Also, who is really using HEOS?? This is a GADGET zone, NOT a high-end area... Sabre DAC ES 9018 used inside AV10? Why not at least ESS 9039Pro or AKM4191EQ? Or dedicated very low noise stereo DAC in dual differential mode per channel? As a flagship product in 2023, it should have! And where is HDCD decoding? Audiophile CD format is not dead, SACD is not dead, and Dolby Digital is not dead... In the audiophile community, we are still spinning HDCD CDs, SACD discs, and DVD Audio discs - and for HDCD, we need that decoder also. Even vinyl is not dead, and in 2023 we still not having a decent phono preamplifier for both MM and MC cartridges in a flagship AV processor... Talking about being in 2023...where is streaming and decoding native DSD1024 audio files? I want to see ultra-low noise separate power supplies inside of a top-of-the-line AV processor... This is the level of quality that I expect from a Marantz or Denon AV processor flagship, in 2023. RCA connectors are made from gold-plated brass? This is NOT desirable, because of brass's low conductivity. It should be made at least from silver or gold-plated OFC copper (again... I'm modest...I'm not mentioning pure silver-made connectors...). I want to see OCC pure copper or OCC pure silver wires used in inside cabling! Talking further...what OP-AMP is used inside? No info here... Also, no info regarding SINAD at 1 kHz and THD+N at max output volume (2V...4V?) I want an upscale even from DVD definition, to 4k and 8k resolution! McIntosh is having same marketing policy... No detailed info regarding inside components used, and no tech info regarding very important audio performance in their flagship AV processor... Only high prices! With all due respect for these companies, this is NOT acceptable.

[@timothylinn]

If I'm remember the details correctly, DENON and Marantz' parent company, Sound United, was purchased not long ago by a company who wants to use their distribution network to sell an Apple Watch competitor. If that leaves you concerned, it gets worse. The purchase was made with borrowed money which will have to be repaid with Sound United profits. It is reasonable to expect this to lead to less R&D, higher margins, and reduced value. We know that prices of the latest gen DENON and Marantz gear have skyrocketed based on previous gen products with similar specs.

[@1MTEK]

But it is acceptable. If it weren't, these companies would be out of business. Let's be real, they KNOW their market demographics-- you people have lots of discretionary income and don't really know what you deserve for your money. These companies are not going to seriously affect their crazy margins by giving you silver or gold-plated OFC connections. It's 2023 and some "high-end" brands (*cough* Sony ES) still struggle on whether you deserve 8K/4K-120 across *all* HDMI inputs (spoiler alert: you don't.. lol). These companies treat their customers like useful idiots with money-- AND IT WORKS!

[@florinbizu7583]

@@1MTEK I clearly remember the years when Sony was acting like a Brembo break in the path of progress on CD players reading formats. We must admit that they are black belts in marketing and publicity. I was once (and for a long time) fooled by this instruments of sale. We are to blame...not them. I also remember how they are selling the same artists/songs 10 times, 20 times more to same consumers, fooling us that the last version is the best (in sound quality, mostly), when they actually having the master tapes...

[@florinbizu7583]

@@timothylinn Quote ...'' We know that prices of the latest gen DENON and Marantz gear have skyrocketed based on previous gen products with similar specs.'' This is the fact that is infuriating me, also. Also, there are much better performing electronic components on the market but they choose to hold still true progress through the years. They are focused only on higher profit margins. By the way...looking for some relevant tech data, I just found for sale a full DAC SPDIF to RCA module made with cheap components, but with the same DAC used in AV10, at the 'staggering' price of...18 EUR. With profit included for the seller. This (and not only this...) makes me wonder about the production costs of this unit sold at 7000 EUR in Europe...and profit margins, of course. I know that wages must be paid, transport and deposit must be paid, dealers margins are included also... Still...why hold back progress which can be easily achievable? A full preamp module for MM and MC with a presettable setting for different types of cartridges made by MoFi Studio Phono it can be bought from a reseller at around 350 EUR... Companies can cooperate in producing AV products with decent phono preamps integrated, right? At different, lower production costs. Why they are not doing it? Not the selling cost of the AV10 is that what is infuriating me, but holding back progress on purpose in delivering much better sound quality, video quality, etc. - from such (otherwise) great companies.

[@1MTEK]

​@@florinbizu7583 Not gonna lie-- I'm kinda envious of their business model. But as a consumer, I'm with you-- it kinda sucks sometimes.

[@_Paul.]

I think this video was supposed to come out months ago and they confused it for the video that was supposed to be coming out today when it got released

[@SoundUnitedTraining]

The video was recorded a few months ago, but the information is relevant. Now that firmware has been launched, we will be posting a step-by-step walkthrough later this month.

[@carlosbucio6869]

Will it be available for the Marantz AV8805A pre/pro in the near future?

[@dfalekulo9138]

Really need a 6800 for 13 channel with 2 channel external bi amplification. If there's backward compatibility for dirac and dirac art for last years flagships above 11 channels, do it please, this years selection is honestly overpriced, very

[@SoundUnitedTraining]

The new models have several new features, including four sub outs, and directional bass. The new models also include a new GUI along with a far more elaborate video section to support multiple 40Gbps HDMI inputs/outputs, We are also the only AVRs that support both Audyssey and Dirac. Whenever possible, we try to add new features to older models, but Dirac implementation requires newer hardware, so it is only available on the newer units.

[@JonMoralesLA]

Also now one of the most affordable ways to get Auro 3D and Dirac in the same box is the Denon 3800 h

[@dfalekulo9138]

@JonMoralesLA meaning the price can be whatever they like, you confused affordable with lucrative, I get chips have increased in price but this is just too much, dirac will be another 700 or so for full, so that's like half of the receivers cost for some algorithms

[@JonMoralesLA]

@@dfalekulo9138 I get your point, not that I accept your premise. The pandemic had a hell of an effect on home theatre prices. With theaters out of commission, everyone wanted to up their game at home and so the demand went way up for receivers and soundbars, supply chain disruptions occurred simultaneously, inflation, and it all resulted in dramatic increases in pricing. That being said, I still find great value in my Denon 3800h for my upgrade path. Relative to other receivers with similar feature set. Finding a receiver or PrePro with both Dirac Live and Auro 3D was very difficult until this new line of Denon/Marantz receivers arrived with the upgrade path to Dirac Live. I for years bought used equipment of prior years models to afford what I could. And there are still more affordable receivers out there as well. When you hit the level of Audyssey, Dirac and Auro 3D as features, you have to pony up. They are all in the higher price tiers of receivers. DTSX Pro is also rare to find and only in higher price tier receivers for now.

[@isak6626]

Will Dirac Active Room Treatment (ART) be available?

[@miguelmunoz1713]

Maybe later on this year

[@GurvanBHC7]

No, i got a response from a guy who work with Marantz/Denon and he said that Marantz and Denon are aware that people want ART but have not yet looked into it

[@fritzmeier3573]

A German Massimo representative over on GrobiTV said, that they are testing it right now and if it works with their hardware they will implement ART in 2024.

[@isak6626]

@@fritzmeier3573 Sounds promising! Dirac themselves have said (in an interview together with Storm Audio and AVNirvana at CES) that if bass control is supported, ART will work as well in with regards to processing power needs.

[@GurvanBHC7]

@@fritzmeier3573 who to believe…?! and in which product? only the top of the range or also the mid-range...?

[@andrzejz6980]

Will Dirac live come to 2 Chanel systems like sacd 30n?

[@timothylinn]

DIRAC will work with 2ch setups but the gear has to be designed for it. The exception is computers. If you happen to be playing sound through a computer, DIRAC makes software that will work with 2ch or multi-channel output. The software is designed for recording studios but IIRC it isn't much more expensive than what they are asking for this upgrade.

[@1Aquadon]

IS dirac live ready for DENON yet?

[@-dAtA-TRoN-]

It is. I just did the update.

[@robo2901]

Why can this not be added to the SR8015???

[@SoundUnitedTraining]

The SR8015's older processor isn't capable to do the processing required for Dirac.

[@miguelmunoz1713]

I don’t see the update 😢

[@SoundUnitedTraining]

If you have a Denon AV Receiver ( AVR-A1H, AVC-A1H, AVR-X4800H, AVC-X4800H, AVR-X3800H, AVC-X4800H) or Marantz AV 10, CINEMA 50 or Marantz CINEMA 40, you should be receiving the update soon.

[@Cblan1224]

Available now, just downloaded update for AV-10. Wondering how you are suppose to connect the umik1 directly to the processor, with an adapter, or to the front usb? I didn't realize that was an option

[@Cblan1224]

@@enricocastagnetti2400 they just showed 2 options, one was an image of a umik connecting to the receiver

[@BornIn82]

The options are shown at 10:03

[@timothylinn]

@@Cblan1224 I have always understood that you will get better results connecting the UMIK-1 to a computer. This is definitely true when calibrating with Audyssey-though in that case you should be connecting to an iPad, not a laptop.

[@Cblan1224]

@Timothy Linn audyssey mic only connects to an av device, not to a PC. The best way to use audyssey is definitely on a PC with a $200 multeq-x license. The $20 app on an ipad is much better than whats built into the av device, but still child's play compared to multeq-x or anything else that let's you fine tune your system. If you know your system, it's limits, and your listening levels, you can even override certain safety features to apply additional eq horsepower, correcting 12-20db peaks and nulls oppose to just thst standard 6db

[@timothylinn]

@@Cblan1224 Yes, my mistake. I was conflating the Audyssey workflow with the DIRAC workflow. It's been a while. That said, my recollection (for what it's worth) is that the Audyssey guys specifically recommended the iPad software over the PC software. I don't think they gave a reason. As you say, corrections are limited to 12db with the iPad app.

[@UnitedRedDevil13]

Limited or full band version? And why?

[@SoundUnitedTraining]

Some users only want to adjust the bass region, so Dirac offers a less expensive option of them.

[@arndtbc]

Can you use a Blue Yeti USB Mic for Dirac?

[@timothylinn]

No, it has to be a specific kind of mic designed to take measurements. They come with calibration files. The UMIK-1 is probably the best choice when price is taken into account.

[@marcbronze1]

Will this update be available for the 6700H??

[@thischannelisdeleted]

What is the FY23 AVR???

[@SoundUnitedTraining]

While some of the Denon and Marantz AV receivers were available in 2022, the Denon A1H and Marantz AV10 shipped at the beginning of 2023