First Look - Kammok Mantis UL All-in-one Hammock

[@paulkhanna1]

I had no idea you had a youtube channel! Your book is incredible.

[@thejohnhend]

I love my Kammok double Roo.

[@DAxt-sc1hm]

I’ve had the UL for a couple of years and love it. Only problem was a stake made a hole in the bag as I slipped into the sleeve.

[@bigw440]

I'm 6'4" and I have the original Mantis. I've had some really good nights in it. Even at 55" or so wide, I can still sleep on my side

[@samducharme4863]

Thanks for the “tour.” Did you stow the guy-outs inside the corners of the tarp, like Hennessy?

[@terkelses]

Hi Derek! Just curious the hoodie you’re wearing what brand and model is it? I feel like i have seen it somewhere before😊 Thank you very much for at great Hammock-bible🙏

[@papatechie]

Very interesting configuration potential! Thanks for sharing

[@johnbutler2231]

As usual a great video, going to wear my new sewing machine motor out trying to DIY my equipment. :-)

[@theultimatehang]

Thanks

[@musicinmiles2615]

Is this a new material for the tarp? Have you been able to test in some downpours? I was sold on the chameleon, now you got me questioning that decision.

[@theultimatehang]

It is a new material. a 15D micro diamond ripstop nylon. I haven't had it long enough to test it in a downpour (plus, it's snowing here right now :) I don't want to disuade you from either hammock, but it's good to understand your options. The Chameleon is a great hammock (I have a custom one myself) -- the longer 11-foot length is comfy, and it's hard to beat the comfort options. But if you're looking for all the elements of a kit, the Mantis is a good deal.

[@musicinmiles2615]

@@theultimatehang I Def understand thanks

[@georgerosado5194]

Excellent...can a ordinary underquilt fit underneith aswell? Thankyou🌲⛺

[@theultimatehang]

Yes. I've used a few different types. It's no different than a regular hammock for UQ connectivity.

[@The81Music]

I already backed the Mantis UL on Kickstarter, but what do you think for overnight weekend camping for a 6' 200lb male? It's 10' and has a structural ridgeline, which makes me think it'll do. I'm just anxious to see if a 10' hammock will be long enough for a flat lay for someone my size. Aside from that, great review! I can't wait to get my own! If it doesn't end up being long enough for me, I'll keep it for friends and piece together a complete setup for my 11 footer. Thanks!

[@magicyvan]

Hi Derek, thanks for this review. What about mosquito's biting from below ? through the hammock ? Most hammocks in asia have the bugnet going below the hammock and they live in mosquito's conditions all year long ;). Thanks ?

[@onetimeoutdoorsdj1394]

Thank you for doing such great reviews I really appreciate it specially being new to Hammock Camping I am learning a lot I didn't realize there was so much behind it I'm used to tent backpacking but I have a bad back so I switched to a hammock and I'm learning LOL but your videos make it by far easier thank you

[@michaelhorn9114]

very good video!

[@guyhays3432]

Do yo think that the tarp gives adequate cover for heavy rain?

[@theultimatehang]

Absolutely! I just finished a long reply to @theVulcanGuy to explain more. It has an 11-foot ridgeline -- plenty of front/back coverage. The sides are shorter at only 3-feet, but I didn't feel exposed in any way when I pitched it.

[@GrowYourOwnFun]

@@theultimatehang do you have the Kuhli 144" × 108" to compare the tarp sizes?

[@dennnka1]

@Derek Hansen how it is compared to Therm-a-Rest Slacker Hammock House?

[@theultimatehang]

Good question. Based on the specs, the Slacker House is shorter, heavier, and more on the basic side in terms of design and construction. The tarp seems very similar. The Slacker doesn't have the side pullouts to keep the netting off your face. This is a nice design feature of more advanced hammock designs like the Kammok Mantis.

[@theVulcanGuy]

The one complaint i'd have is that the tarp is on the small side, in a semi-decent downpour this isn't going to protect you very much methinks.

[@theultimatehang]

You'll forgive me for raising an eyebrow at this comment. In the evolution of hammock camping, the "gold standard" was the Cat Cut tarp that was popularized by MacCat (does anyone remember Brian?) . Tarps have sure enlarged (a ton!) since then, where today, anything less than a 12-foot ridgeline and 5-foot panels is "small". Your comment made me chuckle a little because that same comment has been made time and time again against the tiny asymmetric tarps that Hennessy bundles with all his hammocks. If Tom were answering, he'd say (sometimes vehemently) that his asym tarps provide _plenty_ of coverage, if hung correctly, for a "semi-decent downpour". The KAMMOK tarp is large compared to Hennessy, but modest compared to a winter tarp, which seems to be the new normal. I just measured the KAMMOK tarp and it has an 11-foot ridgeline but only 3-foot panels. When I pitched it, I felt perfectly protected and I wouldn't have any misgivings about using it in any downpour, even sideways rain. The additional pull-outs allow me to even angle in the sides, so it has more utility than even a regular hex. So, while I agree with you that this tarp is "small" in comparison to the new normal (e.g., a winter tarp), it's a perfectly-sized all-season tarp in all other respects. What I think is worth noting, however, is that the kit includes this hex tarp and it is still lighter and less expensive than other big box brands like Hennessy.

[@theVulcanGuy]

@@theultimatehang forgive you? NEVERRRRR!! on a more serious note, I wasn't making a disparaging comment on the tarp or the whole bundle; I have encountered harsher conditions than this hammock setup is (likely) designed for, and the advantages of having a big tarp has kind of stuck permanently with me (by "harsher" I mean multiple days of torrential rain, and on one memorable occasion a lightning storm as well. Fun times were had...).

[@theultimatehang]

@@theVulcanGuy Understood. I agree that having a good tarp is an essential component to a hammock system and needs to be paired with the conditions and expectations of your trip. I think this is why a lot of us have multiple tarps :) I'm impressed that Kammok has come out with a decent tarp, and one that doesn't compromise on size or weight. The Hennessy asym tarp looks striking in photos, but it's really tough for most to make it work in anything but a light rain. I feel much more comfortable with what Kammok has bundled as a good all-around tarp. Maybe not perfect for an Amazon expedition ;) but still pretty good.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

Some do great with a small-ish tarp yet I prefer a large tarp...its my luxury item.

[@rayngrace]

@@theultimatehang I started with HH Classic, then HH Zip, now DW Flipping the Bird. I'm not an overnight camper, more casual day - hang for outdoor get away. Best I'll put up cool weather is mid-40s. A DIY Costco UQ does me fine. The Mantis total package price with tarp seems to be targeting folks like me. Am I right, pennies to a dollar that this a better package/features than DW Chameleon with add-on tarp? Thanks for your reviews. Love your location.

[@levipannell771]

I'm new to hammock camping and I was wondering if you could do a video on hammock camping and what ridgeline means

[@theultimatehang]

You're serious? :) You should start by getting this book: www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Hang-Hammock-Camping-Illustrated/dp/1478351187/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+ultimate+hang&qid=1550023205&s=gateway&sr=8-1

[@lanceharrison6073]

I can recommend the book! I bought a hard-copy book, and a digital version is available. The amount of information can be overwhelming so just read a little at a time and absorb it. KZbin is chock full of hammock, and hammock camping, videos. :-)

[@shawnperry3533]

Check out shug

[@rickwebermusic]

What is the length of the hammock itself?

[@theultimatehang]

The hammock is 10 feet long with a simple gather, so you get the full length.

[@rickwebermusic]

@@theultimatehang Ok thank you! I was hoping it would be an 11 footer. Unfortunately most of the big name brands don't seem to want to put out an 11' hammock, for some reason. This does seem like a pretty neat, and well thought out system, however.

[@theultimatehang]

@@rickwebermusic Yes, I think the largest I've seen is 10.5 feet from Grand Trunk. I'm not sure if we'll ever convince them to go longer, as most folks seem fine in a 10-footer. Consider this for a moment -- when the Hennessy came out, it was the benchmark for camping hammocks (often copied), and the standard Expedition was pushing 9.5 feet with all the gathering and pinching on the ends was accounted for. A 10-foot hammock seemed large and luxurious by comparison. It's taken a few years, but now we're convinced 11-foot hammocks are the "base" for a good hammock. If you go down to South America, the "standard" size hammock is between 13 and 14 feet long. There's no question that bigger hammocks are more comfortable, but where do we stop? For lounging or indoors, it probably doesn't matter, and if we take a hint from the Mayan, than 14 feet seems pretty good. However, camping has special considerations of size, bulk, and weight that needs to be considered, along with function like bug protection, waterproofness, and coverage. When you start pushing 11+ feet hammocks, the requirements for all those extras jumps, which is why we're seeing this normalizing of huge tarps and accessories. For me, I'm trying to strike a balance between size, bulk, and weight. Even when car camping. I know that's not everyone, but remember that these kits are designed for specific markets, and a 10-foot hammock is really, quite nice -- a good compromise, but still comfortable. I'm not here to convince every die-hard hammock camper, but I'm still happy with 10 feet :)

[@rickwebermusic]

@@theultimatehang I would agree with that assessment. Height of the occupant is another consideration. My first hammock was the GT Skeeter Beeter Pro- which is listed at 10'6". I still find it pretty comfy, but when compared to my 11' Dream Hammock Raven- it's like night and day for me. The type of construction also factors into comfort, IMO. A 10' hammock made with the 3-panel design is not going to provide as much comfort than a 10' hammock made from one piece of fabric (also my opinion). I do think there is a limit on how long you can reasonably make a hammock, and still keep it trailworthy. 11' seems to be a good balance for many serious hammock campers. When you factor in having a structural ridgeline, the span of an 11' hammock is just a shade over 9'. An 11' tarp is generally plenty of coverage; and in most places, 12' tree spans are abundant. I do agree that once you start going bigger than 11', you begin to limit your options in terms of where you can hang. Because now you need to have a 12' or 13' tarp to provide adequate coverage. I would be surprised if we see camping hammocks trending past 11' long. But who knows, anything can happen, right?

[@theultimatehang]

@@rickwebermusic I agree about 3-panel -- UGH! But colorful! :\ Actually, agree all-around :)

[@lt2246]

Great review - thanks. I would be interested in your thoughts about how the Mantis compares to similar spec Dream Hammock Sparrow? The 10 foot Sparrow runs about $175 without a tarp vs current sale price of about $168 for the Mantis with a tarp - so looking for input beyond price - thoughts? Thank you.

[@theultimatehang]

Thanks LT. First, you must know that I love both KAMMOK and Papa Smurf's Dream Hammock companies. Both have some novel products and innovations. But to compare the two is certainly challenging in this context. I have a very thorough comparison matrix you can use that is available in my book that walks you through several key criteria to consider. If price is a driver, than you certainly get a lot of value with the KAMMOK set up. It's a complete package that includes straps, suspension, guylines, and hardware, along with the tarp and hammock. The hammock is great and fully outfitted. To me, the real advantage of DH is customization. Material and fabric may be comparable to a point, but you can customize a DM to your exact liking, down to the stitch color. I think the Kammock build quality holds up very well, although you can easily content the DH cottage build will be more attentive. The Mantis is a great hammock, but it's not going to fit everyone perfectly. But if you're fine with a 10 foot hammock, I think the Mantis will be good. Again, if price is the main driver.

[@lt2246]

Derek Hansen Thanks for the feedback. I am 5ft 7in and 150 lbs so the 10 foot should be good with either brand. I was concerned about the "stretch" issue some have mentioned related to the Mantis (though that may be more an issue with the straps). I currently have a Hennessy Expedition double bottom. Closing on 70 years old so trying to get my weight down and both the Kammock Mantis and the DH Sparrow seem they may help me with this. Leaning toward the Sparrow but will give it some more thought. I have your book so I will check out your list as food for thought. Thank you for your time.

[@daytonhansen4963]

@@lt2246 There shouldn't be any stretch on the Phython straps -- they are solid. The Matins hammock, maybe a little, but nothing dramatic. Good luck!

[@eraproductions9923]

that's a nice design but bigger tarp be good for fair weather though you could take a bigger tarp with you just incase

[@copixel37]

The Chameleon and Blackbird had a baby!

[@theultimatehang]

Haha! Yes, or maybe a Hennessy and a Dream Hammock, or any number of jungle hammocks on the market. Seriously, it's all about what brand is forefront on your mind. Jungle hammocks have been around since the Vietnam war, so nothing new there, and that's what Hennessy, Clark, and many other brands began copying. Dutch is just as guilty at borrowing ideas and capitalizing on them as any other. For me, it's all about execution, and Kammok is not just a copycat; they've put a lot of attention to detail, making this a fine kit.

[@rayngrace]

As I have been eyeballing the Blackbird XL & Chameleon, this comes out. As a penny-pincher as myself, this total package got me thinking of adopting "this baby."

[@georgerosado5194]

Is there a winter top hammock cover rather then using the mosqito mess type ?

[@theultimatehang]

I believe Kammok has a winter shell that can replace the bug net.

[@lt2246]

George rosado Yes - sold separately

[@Joker52186]

Looks ok

[@HaussMcGosa]

Having not looked at it in a while, how do you think this fairs with the WB BlackBird net design patent?

[@theultimatehang]

Hmm, good question. Is that the shelf design? Honestly, I should probably leave this up to the lawyers to navigate because how _I_ might describe the net may be different from the legalese that Kammok and Warbonnet do :)

[@HaussMcGosa]

@@theultimatehang Yeah I am not sure either, just thought it was similar in a lot of ways.

[@theultimatehang]

@@HaussMcGosa Yeah, there are similarities with lots of hammocks, but it's really depends on what frame of reference you start from. At the end of the day, any camping hammock is going to have similarities with others because the ideas have been around now for a while. Hennessy pulled his ideas from the original military jungle hammock (actually, several borrow from that concept), and it's just been iterations after that.

[@theultimatehang]

@jctcbc Generally speaking, patents last 14 years and upwards to 20 years, depending on the type, and if they filed an extension. Hennessy's hammocks were filed in 2002/3. Warbonnet's patents were filed in 2015/18 and cover his unique foot box design.

[@onetimeoutdoorsdj1394]

Hi sorry to bother you but I need your honest opinion please I am new to Hammock Camping and right now I have a simply light designs Trail Lair hammock I really enjoy it but I need to get my wife a hammock and I thought at first to get one in the same that I have but then she wanted a bridge hammock well I wasn't sure which one is better or which one I should go with either the REI quarter Dome air Bridge hammock or this hammock set up we really don't have a whole lot of money so that's why I was thinking one of those two setups because it has everything included could you please tell me which one is it better by thank you so much and God bless you

[@theultimatehang]

Thanks! Bridge hammocks are really quite different than gathered-end hammocks in how they lay, so I would make sure you could try one first before you invest. The REI Quarter Dome Hammock is pretty cool and is easy to use with a ground pad and sleeping bag, so it makes transitioning easier. It is also going to feel a lot roomier inside than the Mantis (or similar gathered-end hammocks). But there are other considerations too, such as weight and bulk. If you go backpacking a lot, you might go for the Mantis. If you're just car camping, then the Quarter Dome is going to be pretty easy.

[@onetimeoutdoorsdj1394]

@@theultimatehang thank you so much and unfortunately I don't know anyone that has a bridge hammock or anyone that would let me try one out and we do both backpacking and camping a guy on one of the Facebook groups told me he would sell me his REI hammock system for a hundred bucks but he cut the suspension on it so it's detachable and I didn't know if it was still any good or not can you use a different suspension with that hammock and do you ever sell any of your hammocks thank you so much I'm sure you're very busy and I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out God bless you

[@theultimatehang]

@@onetimeoutdoorsdj1394 Dang. The REI hammock has such a cool suspension system. Does it include the original suspension, it's just removable? You'll have to do some soul searching when it comes to pack weight and see if one system or the other would be better. I think if you're not ready yet to invest in an under quilt system, the REI hammock might be a better choice.

[@lt2246]

Hi The one thing about REI is they have a great return policy. You could get the REI version and see if it works for you - if not return and try the Kammock model.

[@dakotadorn6247]

Any thoughts about the effectiveness of the bugnet? In my old school Roo I've gotten mosquito bites through the hammock bottom and I notice the bugnet is only on the top of this setup.

[@theultimatehang]

If you want to use _any_ hammock seriously as a camping shelter you've got to do a little extra prep work. Mosquitos can bite / poke through any material easy enough. This type of bug net works great and is common among jungle hammocks as long as the netting stays off your face and body, which the Mantis does a fine job at. Double-layer hammocks help a little in that regard, but there are several ways to mitigate that: 1) leverage your insulation. Pads, blankets, sleeping bags, and under quilts are all effective deterrents beneath you. If it's too hot to have any insulation, then you'll try other options. 2) Use a a wrap-around bug net. Full coverage bug nets are effective, but they can get bulky, heavy, and sometimes cumbersome in some cases. Camping hammocks with zip on bug nets are lighter and faster to set up in many cases and are preferred for backpacking trips. 3) treat your fabric. Soaking your hammock in Permethrin is an effective deterrent to keep mosquitos at bay. The treatment lasts a whole season and through several washings.

[@dakotadorn6247]

@@theultimatehang Thanks for the great reply! Now I just need a more compact underquilt! I made the PLUQ after reading your book and it has worked wonders!

[@theultimatehang]

@@dakotadorn6247 Awesome! If you have my second book, I have DIY instructions for making down quilts and synthetic quilts that will pack smaller. If you love DIY, you may also want to try making a quilt using a Costco down quilt, available for $30.

[@Oldsparkey]

It's nice to see a progressive hammock company making large strides forward in helping campers have a complete outfit. Hammock camping is getting better every day and especially from when I started back in the late 50's with a U.S.Army Surplus Jungle Hammock. Back then a 2 lb outfit wasn't even thought of. I read the comments and it seams that a lot of folks were like me about the rain fly being short. It must of been the angle of the camera or a optical illusion. Irregardless I want 2 things from any hammock.( Might say I'm set in my ways. lol ) 1. I like a rain fly that extends at lease a foot ( or more ) past the ends of the hammock. I found one hammock company that has a rain fly with peaks on each end which can be adjusted to stop any rain from blowing in. I camp in Florida ( Heat & Humidity with lots of bugs ) and we get summer thunderstorms with a down blast that can match tropical storm winds or even a cat 1 hurricane in velocity. (50 to 75 mph respectively ) 2. I require material ( a Hammock ) that is mosquito proof with a attached bug net which usually menas double material ( Warbonnet Blackbird ) Only single layer exception I have found is My Clark Tropical with it's single layer but totally mosquito proof. Never have had a mosquito bite me threw the material of either one.

[@bst2664]

I love Kammock's materials but they always make their stuff too short. No good for me at 6'3".

[@theultimatehang]

True, the Mantis will be too small.

[@bst2664]

There entire line up is no good for tall people. I wish they would make a 12'.

[@codyr15]

@@bst2664 Isn't the new Roo XL a fairly large upgrade? I don't know the exact dimensions.

[@tittiger]

Just received this item and NOT impressed that they include no setup tips or instructions with the hammock or even on their web site. This is my first stop in trying to find some guidance in the use of this hammock.....

[@daytonhansen4963]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnmtfXZuj5dofas

[@john_t_england]

Maybe this is new since your comment, but they do indeed include instructions sewn into the inside lining of the Mantis stuff sack.

[@TheRaym]

I don't know but if it were me I would stick with the dutchware chameleon and ad my own tarp

[@rayngrace]

Can you educate us on how you came to this conclusion. I'm trying to figure this out myself. I own the DW Flip d Bird bcoz it was a great deal at time of purchase and don't hang anyway where lots of bugs. Thanks

[@kylestaser5352]

It kinda seems like they did "r and d" from some pictures and video kinda like eno and thermarest, almost like the big names are just using their name to sell another "small vendors" systems/ideas, that being said I suppose this would be a great "entry level" or "kids" version of the real thing.

[@theultimatehang]

I would go further -- I think a LOT (maybe all) manufacturers "borrow" ideas from others. This is nothing new and is the evolution of ideas. I don't think this is a bad thing, although patents often stifle innovation to a certain degree. In a free market, there is always the danger of a competitor who can swoop in and do something faster, better, cheaper (whatever). It's the risk as soon as you decide to go to market. I've had this happen to me, and it hurts, but life never was fair. I would agree that the Mantis is an entry-level hammock to some degree. It certainly makes it easier to get a complete kit, but anyone who gets into this hobby will jump the shark eventually. I don't think I would categorize the Mantis as a "kids" hammock.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

I have many hammocks, all purchased in search of the "best hammock ever" and all made by cottage vendors here in the USA. Despite the varied lengths, materials and designs, my "go-to" hammock remains the first I ever is my first ...a 12 foot-double layer extra wide "tree runner" by SimplyLightDesigns. I don't even know what material it is made of because I changed my order just before shipping and went for the widest green fabric he had. But the owner (Derick I think) happily made me another hammock. I still feel bad about that. This puppy is amazingly comfortable. And that is what counts at the end of the day. With products as shown in this video we are moving away from the comforting simplicity of a USA made product that supports a family operated business. Yes the link included above takes you to a beautiful Kickstarter page that offers some tremendous feel-good images and stories. Yes there is a cool wallaby/kangaroo logo shown and YES they participate in the 1% planet program yet...give but if you dig deep enough you find that this particular hammock is made in the same country that produces all the worst the outdoor industry has to offer. Does this mean the Mantis is not not a good hammock? Of course not. It does mean the money you save has a social cost. Think about supporting all the fine cottage vendors that exist here in our country that: 1.depend on us to exist, 2.wait for years to have the funds to design a better website, 3. often make the item you purchased to order right in their garage, 4.can customize your item with a simple phone call, 6.often use local resources and domestic sources for materials/labor and 7.the founding family and or owner is often who answers the phone. Make a difference, follow your own path, choose to buy from a cottage maker here in the USA. Thanks for listening.

[@theultimatehang]

This was a great read; thank you for sharing. I know there are many others who share your feelings and I agree that the cottage vendors, by and large, produce the finest gear (I, too own a LOT of their gear), but I would be cautious about how evenly you hand out praise (or censure) to any vendor category. I know most try hard to source materials and manufacturing as ethically as possible, but it's extremely difficult in todays global economy to be "purely" single country sourced. I'm friends with several cottage vendors and even know a few "big box" manufacturers, and while I can't speak for everyone, the ones I know are all sensitive about doing the right thing for their customers, the planet, society, and their country. Several of the first hammock cottage vendors have grown big enough I'm not even sure it's fair to call them "cottage" as they've moved out of the garage and into rented warehouses and show floors (Jacks R Better, Dutchware, Hammock Gear, Warbonnet, and even Dream Hammock are all good examples). I applaud their success and many still operate--as much as possible--as a garage shop, but the reality is that as these vendors grow to meet demand, their processes, sourcing, and customer service all change. While final manufacturing and assembly may be done in the USA, material sourcing, components, and by extension, labor, is overseas. I don't mean to be contradictory, because I value your passion, I just wish it were as black-and-white and easy; but it isn't. I've known Kammok owner Greg since he started his business and know how much he values everything you've described. He's a born-and-bred Texan and keeps a small shop, but has chosen to operate his business differently. They carefully design and produce their own fabrics and are socially conscious about the process and supply chain. And while you did highlight the 1% for the planet (which, admittedly, feels like a Millennial gimmick at times) you missed that they are a B Corp certified company, which holds its members to a much stricter social and environmental standard than anything the cottage vendors can boast. Of all the "big box" hammock brands, I think Kammok is one of the few who are trying to do it right.

[@adventureswithfrodo2721]

Issue is there are no spec, length and width. Looks no bigger the an ENO. Small tarp as said. This is just an advertisement.

[@theultimatehang]

You want specs! I've got specs :) Actually, I think I did give the dimensions of the hammock in the video and other comments, but here's the rest: Hammock: 120" x 56" ~19oz Straps: 10' x 3/4 Tarp: 11x47" 15D Silnylon micro diamond ripstop 1500mm PU ENO, as you know, sizes most of their hammocks at 9.5 feet long (short!). 10 feet is a good size. Look, I know this hammock isn't for everyone. But please refrain from making a judgement on a hammock you've neither seen or experienced in person. At least, that would be what I would do.