FIRST LOOK Utopia Must Fall Demo (Pixeljam) PART 13

[@t-blade]

Hey, just went back to check my screenshots and I can assure you that you only need combo flail to unlock superconducting flail. RNG is weird like that… Though generally, I do recommend getting rapid flail first, then whatever follows, but I tend to prefer extended, then combo and superconducting. Rapid is urgently needed to defend against nukes, tentacles and loose enemies that get close and extended range makes it much safer and easier to do so. And good luck on further attempts! You’re doing so much better than me when I was new. In fact if I play “normally”, I usually can’t make it past day 20 ;D

[@jimaroonie]

Thank you for your advice and kind words of encouragement! Yeah I confirmed the same in my latest run and agree, unlocking both extended and rapid is critical for surviving the later days. Hmm you intrigue me when you say “playing normally” as though there’s a secret “abnormal” way to play instead? Don’t tell me (you’ll spoil the surprise) and unless you’re speaking about TAS or other exploits I haven’t got a clue! (Or should that be, I haven’t got a clue YET!)

[@t-blade]

⁠​⁠@@jimaroonie Don’t worry, no spoilers here! It’s not TAS or any fancy exploit, I’m not a speedrunner and my way of “getting good” at games is quite different from them, and I honestly can’t relate to them much lol. But I can say it’s an intended mechanic in the game, and it’s painfully simple, haha! Since we’re here: what are your thoughts on the orange explosive swarms that converge on your shield? I’ve went through your runs and these guys are either directly or indirectly responsible for most of your deaths, no surprise it’s the same for me (and most players)! I’ve got a LOT to say about these guys lol. I’d go as far as saying they are bad enough to drag my demo enjoyment down from a solid 9.0 to a 7.5. They lack good telegraphing, gets unreasonably tanky from all the health scaling, and forces the use of nukes (which the jellies did far better). Mix them with Nullifiers (the purple blackhole dudes), it’s a death sentence and one that pisses me off so much I’ve nuked the game files several times. Nullifiers are alright-ish and just lack enemy interaction, but the explosive swarms are just inexcusably cheap. I hate them. Apologies for rant ;P

[@jimaroonie]

​@@t-blade Really interesting, hmm. I guess I'm quite fond of "run killers" as a principle in games like this as it is exactly because of the fact that unless you have been diligent in your prepping, you are going to come unstuck at some point. Forcing nukes isn't an issue IMO as it encourages you to maintain some reserves. I do get your point about telegraphing, however. I'll have to go back to check my replays to see if they aren't on a consistent timer or something; hence are actually somewhat predictable. I also think that whilst they are currently run killers for me, it is only because I have _yet_ to discover how best to combat them. I also haven't played as much as you to draw the same conclusions that you have. I'm just recalling how comfortable I became fighting the bosses over time after initially finding them impossible. Whereas now, having accrued more experience, I can take them down without too much fuss, even to the point of assessing their potential threat differently, knowing, for example, that jellies won't strike unless you have a shield. I say all this because only recently did I discover that the flashing cog wheel "indestructible" bullets can be destroyed by enemy nukes causing a chain reaction. And that the orange enemy types when destroyed, also chain. So I'm playing with the hunch that they are not actually run killers at all, and it's just that I don't yet know how best to tackle them more effectively. Anyway, your considerable experience may have led you to different conclusions and I'm happy to accept that I may indeed be wrong, haha.

[@t-blade]

@@jimaroonie Wow, appreciate your thoughts! It’s interesting because I feel this is exactly what went through my head as I push further, I went from surprised to excited but then eventually grew tired of these guys. As a disruption type enemy they definitely fill the role well, but I think the jellies already did that better, they also have far more interesting movement patterns making them unpredictable, but they are also decently telegraphed with some degree of predictability to their movement. Both force the use of nukes, but jellies are so much more fun and I actually adore those guys, yet I despise the explosive swarms. Unless I’m missing something fundamental, I’m sure there are only a few ways to effectively deal with these swarms. You either nuke them (usually I nuke close to the center plus a few up where they hover during late game), or rely on upgraded railgun + flail if you’re early in the run when they can be chained close to your shield, or if lucky you can trigger a chain reaction from other enemies just as they spawn, but there’s no telling when they will spawn (unless they add telegraphing on both sides of the screen signaling their imminent arrival). The issue with them is that they also lack interaction with other enemies: their AOE is so tiny that you can’t even trigger a chain reaction with them unless they are right in your face, so they often end up as the enemy that needs to be destroyed, not the ones you can use to destroy others, for example, everyone’s favorite regular bombs + rainbow bombs combo. This effectively makes them a forced nuke check. If a Nullifier gets in the way, your only fix is the blackout. I believe these guys also love showing up when your shield is down, so what happens is I often get chain-zapped by jellies, lose the shield, then these guys show up right after to double-tap me. Of course I’d be furious, it feels so hostile! What’s worse, this is all RNG-dependent so it doesn’t happen consistently. Consistency is key in a roguelike, that’s what gives players a sense of control. I tried to come up with a few ways to address this issue: - Decreasing their base health so that even with late game health scaling, they still won’t take too much effort to kill - Increasing their explosion AOE allowing an easy chain reaction at any point of the run - Drastically reducing their approach speed to the shield so they are slow and imposing while giving players enough time to prepare for them At the moment my favorite is the third approach, this allows them to retain their disruptive role and still remain a fair enemy type. Again if a Nullifier happens to overlap with their trajectory, at least they will be slow enough that after the Nullifier teleports away, you still have time to nuke them. My second idea was the initial one I suggested to the devs. At this point though, I’m really just waiting for the full early access version, maybe they’d be less annoying there, who knows. I’m obsessed with enemy balance, that’s why they bother me so much ;D

[@jimaroonie]

Thanks @t-blade, great stuff. Hmm I did go back and watch my best run to see what I did when they appeared and yes, it definitely feels like a forced nuke checker but I don't know if I'm totally convinced that's a bad thing? Obviously, I defer to your greater experience here but, personally, I like imperfect systems that force your hand somewhat. I guess I'm interested in the idea that I too want a sense of control but I also want to remain on the edge of _feeling_ in control not to actually achieve it. Anyway, thanks for detailing your thoughts on the matter. Like I said, after a few more runs I'm sure I'll get much more annoyed at the orange swarmers.