First new small VW group EV! Is the Cupra Urban Rebel the VW ID2 brother or an electric Polo GTI?

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Autogefühl

Autogefühl

Күн бұрын

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@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
This is our in-depth review of the Cupra Urban Rebel (small EV). We're taking a look at Exterior, Interior and technology. ►Follow us on Instagram @autogefuehl and @thomas.letsgo ►Subscribe here: kzbin.info ►Compare the Cupra Born: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6OnhqZ5ppalsLs ►Compare the VW ID2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpvaq6Zqf8tobJo 00:00 Finally a small EV under 30 k by the VW group! 00:19 Cupra Urban Rebel an electric Polo GTI replacement? 00:44 New Cupra design clues 01:07 Crossover style, wheels and length 02:06 Acceleration figure and small FWD MEB platform 02:52 Charging port 03:17 Rear supercar design 04:10 Battery and range? 04:26 Interior with soft close and new materials 04:50 Gaming steering wheel 05:15 Structured recycled materials 05:57 Sport seats with fabric/leatherette mix 06:39 Split digital instruments 07:16 Head-up-Display as HUD windscreen 07:54 Infotainment mit illuminated sliders 08:20 Cupra Energy drink 08:57 Rear doors and capacitive door opener 09:20 Rear seating area 10:51 Trunk / boot #Cupra #CupraUrbanRebel Transparency note: Autogefühl videos are independent and free from editorial influence on opinion and rating. But since manufacturers enable us to do the reviews in the first place, for legal reasons this video is marked as _advertisement_.
@112deeps
@112deeps 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly it looks like futuristic space ship fighter !! lighted logo at front and rear is class.
@AmazeTase
@AmazeTase 2 жыл бұрын
Wow…Cupra are certainly smashing it outta the park with their designs! I love this!!!
@hazzysheikh2491
@hazzysheikh2491 2 жыл бұрын
If only we got the Cupra in Canada, pretty nice design change to what we're used to here
@jamesshort5682
@jamesshort5682 2 жыл бұрын
Thomas - thank you for another great review. Clearly, the VW group is determined to build out an entire product line based on the MEB architecture. I applaud this approach. Is anyone working on a 2 door EV Sports Coupe? Given how EVs perform I thought Ford would have been first with a 2 door Mustang Mach-E. All the best from Canada!
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks James!
@riaz8783
@riaz8783 2 жыл бұрын
I think a couple of features here are too concepty to make it to production, but this looks amazing. Not some monstrous SUV.
@DJAYPAZ
@DJAYPAZ 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Finally a small EV !
@colors6692
@colors6692 2 жыл бұрын
@@DJAYPAZ Well not finally as this is only at the concept stage!! Also Fiat 500e, HondaE! Are you not aware of them!!
@riaz8783
@riaz8783 2 жыл бұрын
@@colors6692 If the Honda e could do over 200 miles WLTP, then it would be an easy to recommend car. But for the current car to make sense, you need to only drive short distances AND have home charging or a second longer range car.
@GlitterGuru
@GlitterGuru 2 жыл бұрын
More small city EVs please! I’m so jealous of those who have the option of the HondaE, BYD Dolphin, Fiat 500e, and now this. Very curious about the iD2 and hopefully Audi variant
@donelmediterraneo8626
@donelmediterraneo8626 2 жыл бұрын
This family of smaller MEB cars will be shared only between a Skoda, the Volkswagen ID.2 and the Cupra Urban Rebel as the sporty leading and most high-end model. Audi is strategically leaving the smaller cars segments to let enough room for Cupra to take over a more sporty lifestyle brand approach above the Volkswagen's classic design.
@Jushwa
@Jushwa 2 жыл бұрын
The multi colored LED lighting everywhere, even the trunk is kinda trippy, but still cool, inexpensive to add but looks great.
@Jushwa
@Jushwa 2 жыл бұрын
i love the look but not having a physical door handle sucks when you don't have power or you get in an accident and the power cuts, I wonder how they have gotten around that.
@ligametis
@ligametis 2 жыл бұрын
i think there would be a hidden one. maybe under plastic detail or even under the car
@court1188
@court1188 2 жыл бұрын
I presume a rear wash wiper will be added in the final version - it is necessary. The centre console could be removed as it only houses the cup holder. Remove it and you gain far more space. I have commented before about the desireability of a glass (opening) roof.
@baronvonjo1929
@baronvonjo1929 2 жыл бұрын
VW should bring the Cupra Born to NA. They want us to pay nearly 40k to even try and get into one of their EVs. They say people wouldn't want anything the size of the ID3. Uh... have yall seen the cars here. That's a pretty common segment. Anything smaller might be a hard sell. Cupra just looks so much better than any VW we get here.
@FateHasWritersBlock
@FateHasWritersBlock 2 жыл бұрын
Looks great - don't see the appeal in capacitive bs door/window etc controls though - and 2025 seems so long away!
@DJAYPAZ
@DJAYPAZ 2 жыл бұрын
It is good to see some adventurous design happening in the small EV segment. No doubt some elements will be changed in the production version. That’s usually what happens. The 2025 time frame seems too long given the number of new EV models and makers entering the market presently. If for example Cupra brought this to market in say 2023 with good battery / range combination and a competitive price then they could have a hit on their hands. However like most car makers care would need to be taken with positioning this model in the market with other Cupra EVs. I wonder which EVs will compete with model?
@cargogh
@cargogh 2 жыл бұрын
I'd want to add that lighting system to my garage. And a turntable for the Cupra.
@dcbel
@dcbel 2 жыл бұрын
What a beautiful design! Thanks for the review guys:) keep up the good work spreading awareness about new EVs that are hitting the market. 🔌🌍⚡
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
Appreciated!!
@svartdraken
@svartdraken 2 жыл бұрын
I love seeing cars that aren't afraid to be different. It really works here.
@goodgame7474
@goodgame7474 2 жыл бұрын
Nice to see a not boring design, capacitative buttons are stupid though
@robingoergner725
@robingoergner725 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome design for a small segment car! Very interesting choices in texture and colour. Cupra shows us a small car doesn't have to be boring. Front-wheel drive makes sense if you want to maximize interior space. But, I still want my manual climate knobs!
@brucekennedy5274
@brucekennedy5274 2 жыл бұрын
Designers went crazy on this one. Hope they keep the overall body styling, some of the more whacky stuff I could live without. Love the size. Can’t wait to see the finished one and the id2 (?) equivalent.
@bobert83
@bobert83 2 жыл бұрын
Thomas, I am 40 years old, I drive Arona and I would love to exchange for this cupra. Thank you for the presentation👍
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
👍
@grebnetgil2800
@grebnetgil2800 2 жыл бұрын
Get the Cupra Born if you want a similar-sized car as the Arona. I just got my Born, and love it!
@bobert83
@bobert83 2 жыл бұрын
@@grebnetgil2800 Of course you are right, but unfortunately my salary is Polish, not German 😉😭 But in 1.5 years it may change 🖐
@vwmeijer6575
@vwmeijer6575 2 жыл бұрын
Most useful car reviews, Autogefühl!
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
thanks so much, please recommend our channel =)
@peteruk8925
@peteruk8925 2 жыл бұрын
I think this is a very exciting car, and prefer this to the Born. This is more sporty looking especially the front and rear - the rear lighting is amazing 👏. Looking forward to view in person when it finally arrives in the UK !!
@R1S0.
@R1S0. 2 жыл бұрын
looks great... but production version will be washed down... lets wait how it will look and judge then... interior is 200% concept, but what i like are those door pockets 5:20 with a cover....
@Totalschaden-dd4bp
@Totalschaden-dd4bp 2 жыл бұрын
I don't see the point of having the charging point on the left since it's way more convenient having it on the right side for easier (and safer) access when charging on the side of the street and you'd expect this kind of vehicle to be popular in urban areas.
@BrackenDog10
@BrackenDog10 2 жыл бұрын
Also, now we can use Tesla chargers, the charge port is on the wrong side.
@MiyuruWeerarathna
@MiyuruWeerarathna 2 жыл бұрын
Superb design. Great coverage Thomas.
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
👌
@8tch1
@8tch1 Жыл бұрын
Wow, the design is really outstanding 👏 👌
@zynan
@zynan 2 жыл бұрын
This car is awesome. I have had a number of small VW and Audi cars, I currently have a two door Audi A1. The next A1 has been cancelled. I’d prefer to buy my next car from Cupra or Skoda, I think they look better than the equivalent VW.
@mibox8302
@mibox8302 2 жыл бұрын
I doubt that car will come to market with all those cool futuristic features, but the exterior design will probably be in the finished version
@CMMMMMMMMM
@CMMMMMMMMM 2 жыл бұрын
Looks sick! I hope we get this in Australia. And with bigger range would be useful
@cal_lywal
@cal_lywal 2 жыл бұрын
Great to see some more small options but it baffles me that it's taking them until 2025 when we've had the likes of the Peugeot e-208 since early 2020. Would be good if they had prioritised this over the Cupra SUVs but of course everyone wants SUVs at the moment 🤷‍♂️
@glueautomation-solutioneng3609
@glueautomation-solutioneng3609 11 ай бұрын
Need this car ASAP! The augmented display is awesome.
@MJSEN
@MJSEN 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for being so fast with these videos! 😁 I feel like I drove this car in Watch dogs:Legion
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
💪💪
@fredericoamigo
@fredericoamigo 2 жыл бұрын
Seeing this interior and exterior design, it makes me excited for upcoming vehicles form the VW group!
@aye3678
@aye3678 2 жыл бұрын
This for me is a must buy. Love it!
@davelawrence594
@davelawrence594 2 жыл бұрын
Wow that looks futuristic and stunning and if they bring that out looking very much like that Wow that would be amazing so much tech & yes I would be very happy indeed with something like that!! 😀 Great video yet again from your good self!! 👌🏻👍🏻
@nailil5722
@nailil5722 2 жыл бұрын
Best car reviewer in the game ‼️🔥 no cap fr fr my G
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! Feel free to share 😎
@ph.ll.p
@ph.ll.p Жыл бұрын
Absolutely love this and would buy this as a commuter car - perfect size for London/European cities. I really wish the exterior design retains at least 98% of this concept. Bitterly disappointed with the look of the production version of the Tavascan. Well done as always Thomas on an excellent review.👍
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl Жыл бұрын
Thanks stay tuned 😎
@Da_StormtroopeR
@Da_StormtroopeR 2 жыл бұрын
I know I'm annoying but we need more affordable cars! Thanks for showing us this small car. 👍 Designwise I really like play-, joyfull design, cars don't need to be boring.
@jonathantaylor1998
@jonathantaylor1998 2 жыл бұрын
WOW, Thomas...! You really do get the most incredible automotive 'scoops' for this channel - all down to your professionalism, for sure. And what an incredible-looking small EV this Cupra is - compared to the rather boxy (boring...!) VW iD.Life, this Cupra has curves in places I bet VW designers never even knew WERE places...!! 🤣 And, yes, I'll be very interested in this model when it arrives in 3 years' time. Great review, Thomas 😎
@puttajay
@puttajay 2 жыл бұрын
Some interesting design choices for a first small electric car its pretty cool but 2025 is far away and the market could move alot by then
@alfrredd
@alfrredd 2 жыл бұрын
2025 is less than 3 years from now, not that far.
@luismachado6264
@luismachado6264 2 жыл бұрын
I love the design. I won´t love the price it will have as is usual in VW group.....
@alipedlow2708
@alipedlow2708 2 жыл бұрын
I would definitely buy this. It is so refreshing to see such an amazing design.
@dragospahontu
@dragospahontu 2 жыл бұрын
£19,000 is the furthest I would go. Maybe they'll come out with an ID1 to fill in that market gap.
@yogiCJM152
@yogiCJM152 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Loving the new curly hair look 😍🥰
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
🙌🙌
@colinrenfrew48
@colinrenfrew48 2 жыл бұрын
Looks great, and at last…..smaller EVs!
@KnarfMetmohn
@KnarfMetmohn 2 жыл бұрын
OMG!!! The sliders under the middle display are illuminated!!! They actually listen to their customers!!!
@effervescence5664
@effervescence5664 2 жыл бұрын
That back seat for people with long legs or height, the headroom might be okay but the angle your legs were at, it'll never work for longer journeys. & In the advent of a crash your knees are already at your chest level. The outside and front look great but that back seat is pointless for anything other than kids.
@johnsdiychannel8436
@johnsdiychannel8436 2 жыл бұрын
Look at it another way, you are already in the "brace, brace, brace" position ... 😂😂🤣🤣
@Alibaal1
@Alibaal1 2 жыл бұрын
Would never even think about buying this one.
@queenbanger6089
@queenbanger6089 2 жыл бұрын
Now this one im gonna buy for sure,my first ev👍
@kiwiramjet5625
@kiwiramjet5625 Жыл бұрын
Definitely pushing the boundaries, but this is a concept design by and large! Most of this design won’t get to market. TBH I’ll probably just be happy to get a Born
@Kellric7
@Kellric7 2 жыл бұрын
Very refreshing design, didn’t expect this from VAG! Much better than the Born, Cupra is becoming a brand to look at for me !
@Mj-uo7bc
@Mj-uo7bc 2 жыл бұрын
It looks good. But overtime, all i see is issues and big cost repairs with all the fancy lights etc etc. Also a cupra 0-100 in 6.9secs. Not a cupra in my eyes. Great review as always Thomas.
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks m8!
@mrdot1126
@mrdot1126 2 жыл бұрын
i dont know, FWD is better in case of snow, or if you want to climb up more challenging roads, the ROAD would only matter if they give you drift mode or something that disengages all the safety stuff that prevents you from over/under stear, and let the backside slide a bit during corners...
@jaredhuang2225
@jaredhuang2225 2 жыл бұрын
100% would buy a smaller ev, currently drive a Spark EV.
@MaximilianvonPinneberg
@MaximilianvonPinneberg 2 жыл бұрын
Surely it would all depend on which of the VW/Audi/Cupra/Seat/Skoda variants works out the best value.
@nayden5834
@nayden5834 Жыл бұрын
INSANELY gorgeous
@henrikhansen1507
@henrikhansen1507 2 жыл бұрын
Thomas- you are so good at going trough all the design detail on a car. I would consider it, but only as a number two car, if the price is right. As family mover number one the short wheelbase will drive me crazy over uneven roads and speedbumps. And the short design wil make it very inefficient on aerodynamics, so it will end up using just as much, or more energy on the highway than my Model Y.
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
thanks so much, please recommend our channel =)
@nathanielfarrugia5491
@nathanielfarrugia5491 2 жыл бұрын
What a cool and nice futuristic sporty cupra car!!.😍😍
@richardjohnson5529
@richardjohnson5529 2 жыл бұрын
it is nice Thomas i dont see the helmet though, but i am glad it has an animal free interior, is that including the steering wheel? but i will wait to see what the VW id2 version will look like.
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
yes at least that is what they said!
@borisdemelo
@borisdemelo 2 жыл бұрын
Space is at a premium with small cars like this. IMO it’s completely the right move to make it FWD and maximise cabin space.
@Meditating2023
@Meditating2023 3 ай бұрын
When can I buy it? Pree order? When can I testdrive?
@arnoldtabor3767
@arnoldtabor3767 2 жыл бұрын
They should've gone for this first before the ID3... 250 miles should be the standard and have a range topper aiming for 400 miles of range ... With maybe a super budget 150 mile range one after a few years... I'd also say MAKE A HEADS UP DISPLAY STANDARD... The interior needs some work I'd say jaguar land rover temp dials would be good and moving the warning light off the center is a must and having manual not electric door handles please
@jr800w
@jr800w 2 жыл бұрын
Wow that looks awesome. Maybe too many curves. Can’t wait for VW’s subtle version.
@sbomorse
@sbomorse 2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of a Aygo X. I wish they'd allow illuminated badges, I know it's down to advertising laws, but it's just daft. They can look seriously cool.
@tuerkischermeister
@tuerkischermeister 2 жыл бұрын
Really great design by Cupra! Wouldn't it be fantastic to get this vehicle with an Audi RS equivalent output?
@winc06
@winc06 2 жыл бұрын
Want a VW id3 GT here in the US.
@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος
@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος 2 жыл бұрын
Heck yeah! 2,5 years till i'll replace my VW e-Golf, would like to downsize a bit, Cupra is cooler than VW, so yes please. Would be cool is they would call it the Cupra Marbella 👌
@puttajay
@puttajay 2 жыл бұрын
To differentiate from seat they wont follow seat naming of Spanish places they had a marbella back in the 90s dont think they want to rehas
@basfinnis
@basfinnis 2 жыл бұрын
Looks lovely. However they need proper competition to Tesla in real world range. Thanks for the upload.
@florinRS11
@florinRS11 2 жыл бұрын
Beautiful design 😍
@PangBard
@PangBard 2 жыл бұрын
Not bad. Personally, I’d like rear wheel drive and less light-show. Thanks
@j10ant
@j10ant 2 жыл бұрын
Is this a pure vow group car. To my eye it has strong MG 3 vibes.
@lucidite9734
@lucidite9734 2 жыл бұрын
Always new Cupra , but what about SET ?
@giorgospap5705
@giorgospap5705 2 жыл бұрын
it has some features from more expensive cars so even thought it is small i guess it will have premium price
@rodrev_hiking6757
@rodrev_hiking6757 2 жыл бұрын
I wish VW would bring the ID Life exactly like it was intended and presented in IAA
@doctorbashir3497
@doctorbashir3497 2 жыл бұрын
Looks great. Hope the production version looks like this.
@klausM54
@klausM54 2 жыл бұрын
The glasshouse rather resambles an airplane canope in my view and reminds me of the design clues Saab used in that regard.
@Oracleman1
@Oracleman1 2 жыл бұрын
First small by VW? What about e-up, citigo, miii?
@real2gone
@real2gone 2 жыл бұрын
Very cool looking compact.
@MackTheKing31
@MackTheKing31 2 жыл бұрын
the electric motor that opens the charging port seems cool at first until you realize its the stupidest thing ever when you will not be able to charge your car once it dies... otherwise, gorgeous car!
@evilution_ltd
@evilution_ltd 2 жыл бұрын
You do know that electric cars have a 12v battery and a high voltage traction battery right? Running your car flat won't affect any of the 12v systems.
@OllieTT
@OllieTT 2 жыл бұрын
Looks awesome!
@JetNix
@JetNix 2 жыл бұрын
I love the bold design, would totally drive it. =)
@tapper701
@tapper701 2 жыл бұрын
Small VW group EV - the Cupra Urban Rebel looking good ! Slainte' ! Cheers !
@romulus_
@romulus_ 2 жыл бұрын
this is a production vehicle? if so, impressive design.
@CDN_Store
@CDN_Store 2 жыл бұрын
It's a near production concept car. Possibly the production car tarted up with concept features to grab attention.
@abraxastulammo9940
@abraxastulammo9940 2 жыл бұрын
4:15 How do you estimate less than 400 km, if the demo mode instrument cluster shows 420 km? 😏
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
Experience
@Mindseas
@Mindseas 2 жыл бұрын
Really interesting video and once a gain solid presentation! I think some of the interior design choices are really strange and cumbersome, like the hazard blinkers in the mid center of the front, why on earth do you need it there unless this car is just rubbish and you constantly run into trouble? Also those door opening mechanics are really weird, how is that supposed to work? People are just going to claw the hell out of that rear door or C pillar if that's how it will be in the future. Also, how will they guarantee entry without electricity if that's how it works? The rest looks really cool, the HUD stuff especially something that I like a lot, and the design language and the shape of the vehicle is very eye catching. It's maybe a little much for such a small car, with not much to show for it's looks when it comes to performance. But, at least it's daring and different, which I love in the still rather stale and risk averse car industry. Cudos to the VAG group for having that as a part of their design philosophy. Well, ok, the splitter in the back is perhaps a bit much, it has very little function in an urban environment. For now though, I think out of the medium sized EV's, Cupra Born and Polestar 2 are the best overall.
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
thanks keep tuning in !
@kerryjones1508
@kerryjones1508 2 жыл бұрын
First small EV by the VW group? Did you forget about the UP etc ?
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
Sure, i am more referring to the true EV platform, the e-up! was more this first approach retrofit EV not purpose built
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
I now corrected the title in “first new vw group ev” to stress the fact its the first of the new EV generation, thanks 😊
@kerryjones1508
@kerryjones1508 2 жыл бұрын
@@autogefuehl thank you for taking the time to reply. An excellent channel !
@j.b.2547
@j.b.2547 2 жыл бұрын
Starting at €25k
@vladimirjonas5516
@vladimirjonas5516 2 жыл бұрын
I wish to see electric Honda Jazz in the past. But now, after watching this video, if the floor have to go so much up and the car have to be so much wider… it wouldn’t be Jazz as we know him. Maybe a plug-in version for sacrificing the boot space is the right way for now. On the other hand, I am happy to see some relatively small cars in this massive car era. I believe small cars will come back in a few decades and we will see todays cars as we now look on 70’s american cars.
@CarbonMotorsEU
@CarbonMotorsEU 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome design of this Cupra! And thank for the review! ... The only thing that bugs me is the gaming design of the steering wheel. This is very dangerous because on subconscious level can nudge some drivers think that driving is same as in computer games.... Like, for example you hit someone or crash and just press the reset button and then it all starts fresh. No - this should not be done in real life!!!
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
Cheers!
@subzeroarctics1299
@subzeroarctics1299 2 жыл бұрын
Is the arrow in the thumbnail… supposed to be there?
@autogefuehl
@autogefuehl 2 жыл бұрын
Rofl how did that happen
@subzeroarctics1299
@subzeroarctics1299 2 жыл бұрын
@@autogefuehl Happy to help haha
@CMMMMMMMMM
@CMMMMMMMMM 2 жыл бұрын
Looks sick, love it
@AleksandarStefanovic
@AleksandarStefanovic 2 жыл бұрын
I like it, but, like ID. Life, it is planned for 2025 which is so far away compared to what the competition is doing right now...
@kitlai768
@kitlai768 2 жыл бұрын
Very good looking little hatch 👍
@MatrixJockey
@MatrixJockey 2 жыл бұрын
This looks BADASS
@Walt2000
@Walt2000 Жыл бұрын
I absolutely love the car it's very beautiful and very awesome in my books. It's design in and out are ver special however I like the other design as it is in Forza horizon 5 and it makes the car stand out more and show off a lot more than it's standard shell, but that doesn't mean that it's shell doesn't make it stand out either because just by looking at it people will be able to say "Yes that's a CUPRA right there". Love the car though probably be to harsh for my environment however so I see myself moving to one of the bigger countries like Canada to drive this beauty of a car🧡
@vicentelopez3798
@vicentelopez3798 2 жыл бұрын
Design in general and details looks very attractive, avantgarde. Let's see final power, range and charging time numbers, as wells a pricing. Curpra should eliminate this forced cooper color elements, it does not looks/combine well, completely unnecessary and out of place most of the time.
@diluxe
@diluxe 2 жыл бұрын
What a great design
@Gee4747
@Gee4747 2 жыл бұрын
I would prefer a smart for 2 with longer range over 300 miles
@Zeus-se9pv
@Zeus-se9pv 2 жыл бұрын
Not such a fan of the cross-over look, but the styling and interior is definitely very nice. Some EVs tend to look very clean, but boring. This however is a much more interesting approach in my opinion.
@FefyGT
@FefyGT 2 жыл бұрын
amazing, they are finally making some nice electric cars! I bet will cost 50k+
@f00lxpl
@f00lxpl 2 жыл бұрын
hmmm that does not look quite like the concept from some years ago :(
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