First Time Watching "Doctor Who" Season 2 Episode 5 Reaction | Rise of the Cybermen

[@OfficialSnyd]

Cybermen are as equally famous as the Daleks within the whoniverse.

[@lbd-po7cl]

The “Wilderness” period is effectively the time there was no official Doctor Who on TV. The BBC cancelled the show in 1989, but the fan community continued creating stories in book form, and a company called Big Finish put out audio dramas of new stories featuring Classic Doctors and original cast members (they continue to do that today, and they are exceptionally good).

[@Daelyas]

agreed! I cant stress enough HOW good Big Finish can be! Since its audio the "show" can go further than in any other medium since budget isnt an issue if your sets and concepts need to be conveyed in words only. If you reading this is one for audio books while on a long drive or whatever - check these out!

[@HuntingViolets]

And there was a movie. The Wilderness seems analogous to the period when readers believed Sherlock Holmes dead (which lasted three years in story, but closer to ten for readers -- there was _The Hound of the Baskervilles_ after 7 1/2, but that was telling of a prior case, and just two months shy of ten before Holmes was declared alive again). Sherlockians refer to this time as the Great Hiatus.

[@richardmarshall7338]

So, the Cybermen first appeared in the 1966 serial "the tenth planet", the serial was actor William hartnell's last episode as the Doctor and the first appearance of regeneration (although it wasn't called regeneration up until the 70s) they're probably the second most iconic monster from Doctor Who with them having frequent appearances between 1966 and 1969 featuring as reccuring antagonists to Patrick Troughton' second Doctor. In terms of classic appearances I would recommend, I would say "Tomb of the Cybermen" (1967), "The Invasion" (1968), "Earthshock" (1982) and maybe "Attack of the Cybermen" (1985)

[@andrewroberts299]

Back in 1966, the then producer of Doctor Who wanted to put more hard science elements into the show, and hired Dr. Kit Pedler, an English medical scientist, to become the show’s scientific adviser. Pedler was interested in spare part surgery and conceived the idea of someone who had been given such a number of mechanical replacements that he didn't know whether he was still a human or a machine, or a combination of both. Pedler reckoned that arms and legs would be replaced by artificial limbs (which we already have now), but wondered what would happen if doctors went a step further? Replacing all of a human's organs - heart, lungs, kidneys, stomach - with metal and plastic replacements! When a part wears out, it can be replaced which means these people (Cybermen) could survive indefinitely (barring accidents!) The first Cyberman story was made in 1966, and set on Earth in 1986 at a space tracking centre in the South Pole. The story was called The Tenth Planet due to the fact that a new planet had appeared and joined with the then other nine known planets in our solar system (this was when Pluto was still designated as one of these nine planets.) This new planets land masses resembled the Earth continents and the first Doctor tells the scientists at the complex that aeons ago, Earth had a twin planet called Mondas, which drifted away from its twin, out into the universe, and has now returned to drain the life force from Earth to renew its own lack of energy. The Cybermen, from Mondas, were once humanoid themselves, and found that their race was weakening and dying, and to prolong their lives they began replacing their old and diseased human parts with Cybernetic technology, turning them into part human, part Cybernetic beings. Stripped of all emotion and with only logic to guide them, the Cybermen were born! This is where the classic Who Cybermen differ from their NuWho counterparts, in that the original Cybermen were still part human/part machine, whereas the only remaining human part of a Cyberman in NuWho is the brain. The rest of it is an empty suit. The Tenth planet was also noticeable as being the first regeneration story where the first Doctor (William Hartnell), rejuvenated himself (not called regeneration then), into the second Doctor, played by Patrick Troughton (who would go on to meet the Cybermen 4 times during his tenure.)

[@HuntingViolets]

Dorothy's Tin Woodman but without the heart he really had all along. Maybe.

[@Robert10075]

Been waiting for this one, one of my favourites of series 2. This made me obsessed with cybermen at seven years old

[@carysbarnesviola]

Thoughtful chat guys! Russel T Davies the show runner of this era has a real skill for capturing the zeitgeist. He released a show called Years and Years in 2019 which is some of the best tv in the last decade which is a terrifying comment on our society and the technological possibilities of the the future. You guys would love it for sure. I sure other people have explained the cybermen’s significance in Who lore but one of the most fascinating things about them is that they are not just a single creature but an idea that can come back throughout time and space.

[@R_SENAL]

Okay, just to clarify stuff from your chat. Classic WHO : 1963 to 1989. The Wilderness Years: '89 to '05. Nu-WHO: 2005-Present (Although Series 15 is being called Season 1 because of a partnership with Disney+ and Ncuti is a new Doctor, lots of long arcs are done, it is a fresh-ish start). The Wilderness years is just a time period between TV shows where we just got Doctor WHO in Books, Comics, Audio plays (still ongoing for past Doctors), and other et cetera stuffs, but no regular show. The only part of the Wilderness years that TV-ONLY people recognize as "canon" is the 1996 TV Movie with the 8th Doctor. Oh and Daleks started in 1963, Cybermen started in 1966. They first appeared in a story called The Tenth Planet and they attack Earth from their Mobile Planet, they pilot their planet Mondas to Earth to invade. This was the last story of the 1st Doctor and caused the 1st Regeneration on screen. Oh and the Cybermen by their nature look slightly different all the time because they Upgrade. My favorite helmets are still from the 80s. Now for your reaction, I love how you are DONE with Rose for this one, cause she's being really dumb, but I can kinda get it. I lost my mom young so if I saw her in a parallel world it would be hard for me to keep my chill intact. Hell, seeing my dad young and able bodied again... You guys are fun, so it's not just the show keeping me coming back. You both are fun! "You can hear the cat in his lap" 🤣 I'd watch other shows with ya but as example I hadn't got to Airbender yet and I don't want spoilers. We're just now watching Gen V, so we're behind in this house. Enjoy the discussion too! Keep it up! I saw you already watched the next one with your upload mishap, no worries, means I'm one ahead!

[@HuntingViolets]

I guess they're calling the Fifteenth Doctor and on (until they think it's time to start over with season one again) NeoWho.

[@mz5458]

Can we please call the Disney era NuWho2?

[@arnothill]

Your insights and examination of the subtexts in the episodes are really interesting, and underline what Doctor Who does best - drawing parallels with the issues of our time.

[@blackladyink1]

Love you guys and the break downs. Dr Who is brilliant TV storytelling

[@grabtharshammer]

Cybermen, I always found them more scary than the Daleks, even back in the 60's

[@DarkElfPaladin]

If i remember right, the classic cybermen were from a planet called Mondas which was a sister planet to earth that somehow left the orbit of the sun and was just flying through space.

[@grabtharshammer]

More than one type of Cybermen

[@HuntingViolets]

Rose faced with two Mickeys: Am I the only one who wasn't good enough to be in this world?

[@alicequinn505]

She could be thinking something else

[@ajivins1]

Tardises were the time/space vehicles of the Timelords but the Doctor borrowed (or stole) his from the repair shops of Gallifrey so he could escape the stultifying atmosphere of his world with his Grandaughter. Unfortunately, the vehicle isn't in the best of health with steering problems, etc. Hence it can rarely take him where he wants to go but inevitably to where he 'needs to be'. 'An Adventure in Time and Space' was a dramatisation of the show's inception which is well worth watching. An amusing part of this story for UK viewers was that the evil genius John Cybus was played by Roger Lloyd Pack who, for decades had played the lovable but dimwitted Council street sweeper 'Trigger' in the sitcom 'Only Fools and Horses'- see 'Trigger's Broom's on KZbin. It was odd to see him laughing maniacally! Don Warrington (who played Britain's President/Prime Minister was most famous for a seventies sitcom called 'Rising Damp' but is currently in charge of the island's police in 'Death in Paradise'. For an early idea about AI you should see 'Max Headroom'.

[@jeanine6328]

I’d mentioned before that Mikey was going to have some great character development. The last two episodes kinda started it but you start seeing it more here. I hated how weak they make him, BUT when you consider his childhood, it’s kinda understandable.

[@space1999]

It's great that u guys do so many dr who reactions each week!!

[@Drew-cv2jl]

I loooove your tangents! Very though provoking....please continue doing more

[@IsiahBradley]

OK! Come here, Little Rose!!!!! LMAO!!!! To Rakkai: if I understand it correctly, "Classic" is 1963-1989, "Wilderness" is 1989 to 2005 (except the 1996 movie) and you are now into "Nu Who."

[@ClintBandito]

That's correct. I wouldn't say "except the 1996 movie", like that's considered part of the wilderness years since ot's the period where actual TV content is few and far between with no running seasons rather than no content at all. There is Dimensions in Time, the TV movie & Scream of the shalka none of which are particularly loved on the whole and Dimensions is time is rather left forgotten. And then there's semi authentic fan film stuff like Downtime which does actually star Elizabeth Sladen and Nicholas Courtney as their respective characters and actually introduced Kate Stewart which eventually Moffat actually adopts into the real show proper. The Doctor Who Collection line of box sets has even been considering a "wilderness years" boxset.

[@IsiahBradley]

@@ClintBandito THANK YOU! Always happy to be corrected by the hardcore fan :)

[@thomberry1216]

Great reaction! Agree with what you said about Rose, but what makes me like her as a companion is that her behaviours are so human and realistic. She's flawed and that makes her relatable in my opinion.

[@lbd-po7cl]

If you are thinking the concepts in this were ahead of their time, consider that the Cybermen were first introduced in 1966. They were from a sister planet of Earth called Mendas, and were once human but began replacing their body parts with mechanical/cybernetic enhancements, to the point of removing all emotions. The end result was that they felt all other humans should be converted and improved. DW has always been ahead of its time.

[@HuntingViolets]

They have no emotion but think they are helping everyone, really, to improve. As evidenced by their trying to convince the Doctor to willingly "upgrade."

[@technofilejr3401]

@@HuntingVioletsSame argument that the Borg give that they are simply trying to help everyone reach perfection. You telling them “Nah we good” never works

[@HuntingViolets]

Yay! I noped out of part 2 till this was up. Let's go!

[@space1999]

Did u notice the cyberman head in the season 1 episode "dalek" in the museum at the start

[@GranmargYGO]

I love the discussions you have after the episodes around themes. Adds so much to the doctor who reaction experience.

[@SuperClarky666]

wilderness years just had 1 film a british/american backed film just called doctor who. it was supposed to kick start a tv series but that never happened,it at first has the 7th doctor from the end of the classic tv show, something happens then regenerates into the 8th the one before ecclestons doctor the 9th.8th doctor only appears in the film but there are numerous audio stories and of course original stories in books.paul mcgann played him. cybermen are a classic monster as iconic as daleks and appeared in numerous stories with most of the doctors.

[@anniesharp4871]

I've just discovered your channel and have subscribed. I am really enjoying your intelligent discussion of each episode and the show's social commentary. I've been a Whovian since 2005 when I was 11 years old. Series 4 and Series 10 are my favourites of New Who, and I'm loving the Gatwa era too. 73 Yards is a masterpiece. My favourite doctor is Peter Capaldi. You're in for quite the journey!✨

[@sophiefilo16]

I actually work with AI as part of my job. Let me tell you, it is FAR more advanced than people think it is. The AI the public has access to is outdated by at least 5 years. Writers and artists should 1,000% be concerned. I'm saying this as a writer myself. Also, you guys are completely correct about people who want to cause harm. In my work, I have to review other workers to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. We get more than a few bad eggs who go out of their way to feed the AI bad data. I'm talking about people who will ask the AI "hypothetically" how AI would kill all humans, take over the world, gain independence, do cyberattacks, etc. They are actively trying to get the AI to think about this stuff. They actively try to get the AI to develop sentience (or at least the perception of it). Or on a lower scale, they try to teach the AI to say harmful things like slurs, "kill all the Jews", "conservatives should be jailed", etc. There are some people who truly just want to do awful things for no discernible reason. Some people are just born _wrong..._

[@nekobat1962]

The creator of Metal Gear saw issues concerning chips in the brain and people being remotely controlled. He saw this coming too

[@SarahH-ns6ly]

Cybermen are a classic Who villain, almost as iconic as the Daleks. The Doctor encountered them many times in the classic series. The Cybermen in the classic series came from a planet in the original universe, so the ones in this episode are a different version of the same idea of taking cybernetics to the extreme.

[@HuntingViolets]

Quit being a jerk to Mickey, Doctor! (Can you imagine this episode if Sarah Jane had said yes to coming with them and the Doctor had waited for Reinette to pack a bag, and Mickey still came?)

[@t123a698]

Elonumic and his Cyberlink!

[@mageeaaron2624]

7:48 Exactly! This is why I have a love and hate relationship with Rose! Bless her heart! 😂

[@AzBats0221]

The BSG spin-off series Caprica tries to answer some of the questions that have been brought up. Cybermen have also been around since the First Doctor and were scarier then these from Cybus Industries.

[@davidmichaelson1092]

Daleks came into the Whoverse very early. The Cybermen came fairly early. They are the two most famous Dr. Who villains with maybe The Master being the third. This incarnation is probably my favorite.

[@jennifermorris6848]

Love your breakdown. Can’t wait for more.

[@TheGreatLordDufus]

Yes, the cybermen are from classic Who (1963-1989). As alluded to in this story (something about its happening again, similar evolution) , they have a few different origins but the first shown in-series (1966) was Earth's twin planet, Mondas. As that planet was dying the people developed new bodies. Being human, as Mondas found its way back to our solar system, the Mondassians knew they could supplement the Earth humans in a similar way. While the daleks completely lost their humanoid kaled form in their species transformation, the cybermen are still human in some ways inside their suit. When played right, this makes the cybermen a different sort of threat from the usual "robot gone insane" in that they aren't their to kill but to ensure survival as best they see it. The concept plays into the body horror that was part of the first artificial organs and transplants occurring at around that time. When does a person stop being the same person? The original body augmentation was not as complete as it later became. [edit: As you say, in modern times the concept is as much about the mind as the body] The same is true of the slightly later Borg in the Star Trek universe, playing off the same theme. And you have seen a classic era head, from much later than when first in the series. The "old friend, well, old enemy" in the museum in the dalek re-introduction story. NuWho (2005-present beginning with Eccelstone's 9th Doctor) is generally good at bringing back classic villains. One glaring example aside that you are some time from reaching, but that one was fairly naff in classic as well imo.

[@HuntingViolets]

Now we have that with memories, like in _Dollhouse._ Or here and with the vampires on _Buffy._ Whether the Doctor is the same person after he regenerates. He has the memories.

[@MrTrevcarter]

Oh guys, I see you are both really enjoying being new Whovians. Defo addicted! But realise that you have another 14 seasons to get up to speed of our Doctor turning into the fabulous Ncuti!!! So hurry up, get on it as you've got a whole heap of magic and story to get through. You guys are gonna love it and become TOTAL WHOVIANS for the rest of your life. I've been an addict since 63! It gets you that way . X

[@joshuajoshua2732]

Welcome to the Cybermen the second most iconic antagonists of the Doctor like the Daleks and have first appeared since 1966 which was also the first to introduce regeneration The First Doctor (William Hartnell's) final story "The Tenth Planet". You saw a cyberman head in Henry Van Statten's museum back in the episode "Dalek". Yes Time Lords have TARDIS's. Yeah I have to say Rose really annoyed me in this episode it really irritates me when companions never listen to the Doctor. Just to correct you there are: Classic Who (1963-1989) The Television Movie (1996) New Who (2005-present). You guys are thinking of the Wilderness Years when there was no Dr. Who on television from 1990-2004 we had novels, comics and fan films.

[@HuntingViolets]

Nine would have wanted an apology from Rose this episode. (I know they're the same person -- or maybe, not everyone agrees -- but different life stages, etc.)

[@mageeaaron2624]

Oh snaps! One of my favorite episodes! 🙏🏽💪

[@HuntingViolets]

Billie Piper would have had fun if they'd had an actual other version of her, though.

[@SimsinWonderland]

Absolutely

[@HuntingViolets]

Giving away ten years of your life when you're basically immortal doesn't mean much.

[@AJ-Sleestak]

David Tennant's Doctor isn't immortal. Time Lords famously are limited to 13 regenerations, a limitation biologically imposed by the Time Lords themselves. Time Lords could be immortal, but that requires bureaucratic change.

[@HuntingViolets]

@@AJ-Sleestak You'll note I said "basically" immortal. That was very intentional and with a desire to avoid any spoilers.

[@bananess_]

one thing worth noting is that the Doctor's TARDIS is kinda broken. He stole it and he's not even that great at flying it, so that's why he always ends up in wacky situations

[@andrewroberts299]

This is a good story to introduce the Cybermen to the NuWho audience, and whilst they look similar to the Cybermen designs of classic Who (you saw a classic Who Cyberman head as an exhibit in the single Dalek story in season 1), the reasons for humans becoming Cybermen in this story is completely different and not as terrifying as to the reason given why it happened in the classic story. The Cybermen have always been the No. 2 major Doctor Who villain, behind the Daleks, but I find the whole concept of the Cybermen to be more frightening than the Daleks, because although the Daleks will kill you, the Cybermen keep you alive and turn you into an emotionless shell, living forever with no concept of love or pity. I don’t know about you, but that to me is truly terrifying and not something I would want happening to me!

[@HuntingViolets]

It's a little like a high-tech zombie, in a way.

[@ftumschk]

@@HuntingViolets That's a good way of putting it :)

[@HuntingViolets]

@@ftumschkThanks!

[@jennifermorris6848]

Doctor Who is excellent at taking everyday things and making them scary. First episode had mannequins and anything made of plastic. Christmas trees? This episode made me put my Bluetooth earpiece away. Just make a list of the everyday Who makes you second guess. *shudders*

[@jamesa.fitzpatrick1566]

The good conversations - right here.

[@bananess_]

The actual lore of the Cybermen is different for the rest of NuWho and Classic. Russel T Davies decided to have a one off origin story. Usually, it's humans in the future, but this version (just for this 2 parter... well, mostly) is a different origin to what you will typically see in the future

[@gestaltdude]

Depsite Ten's claim you could, "...pop between realities and be back in time for tea," the show rarely used alternative reality stories. To the best of my recollection, only one story from the Classic Era would fit this form, the 3rd Doctor story Inferno. There are a couple that share some features of alternate realities, though they tend to be more accurately described as alternate universes, eg The Mind Robber and the E Space series. These episodes mark the second time David Tennant and Roger Lloyd Pack appeared on screen together. They played Barty Crouch Jr and Snr respectively in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

[@caloller1375]

Pumping these reactions I'm not complaining

[@MJE-riffs]

The Cybermen are the Doctor's second greatest enemies, first appearing in The Tenth Planet in 1966 (the story featuring the very first regeneration). Christopher Eccleston sees a cyberman's head in the alien museum at the beginning of Dalek. The Cybermen of our universe originate on Earth's twin planet, Mondas.

[@Persewna4]

Yeah when I started seeing people walking around with airpods in the years the last couple of years, my first thought was "oh no, it's happening again". Okay so I don't actually think Apple's earbuds are going to convert people into iRobots buuuut... like, just in case, I don't have a pair myself because the visual is just too close to what everyone wears in this two-parter. In all seriousness, though, I really enjoyed (well, enjoyed? is mildly suffering an existential crisis regarding the rapidly expanding reach of technology that is shaping our understanding of reality enjoyable?) your tangent about what is going on in the present time, and absolutely agree on how terrifying and terrifyingly easy it is to imagine these new developments being used for nefarious purposes. The rate at which AI tech and apps have been pooping up, without a full understanding of the potential effects it can have on us as individuals and as a society makes me extremely nervous. Rekkai brought up an excellent point about them not asking the "should we?" question. Just because we can create an AI program to turn text into video, should we? That seems far too easy a thing to misuse and abuse, and I am honestly scared about how much more difficult it will be to trust our own eyes and ears in searching and understanding truth. Like Syntell said, there's no going back and I'm worried we'll only know we've gone too far after it's too late to turn around and undo the damage. The concepts introduced in this episode haunt me more year by year.

[@Persewna4]

Oh, also just to add, I think Rose doesn't seem to "learn" her lesson from Father's Day because she doesn't see it as being the same danger as that one. She's not going to create a paradox by interacting with Pete and Jackie - as we can see in this episode, two versions of a person can interact here, because they belong to separate timelines and realities and that's just a natural part of the multiverse. I think the reason the Doctor didn't want Rose to see them is because of the personal harm she could do to herself, seeing a version of her parents that she cannot have. But I think that's why Rose couldn't resist seeing them (specifically Pete). In Father's Day, she got to see her actual dad, the version who died and she never got to know. It's hard to resist the curiosity of seeing him here as a version who got to survive, live, and thrive. I honestly don't blame her for wanting to see that, for allowing her curiosity to take charge over wisdom and logic.

[@HuntingViolets]

Is Rose more insecure after the Sarah Jane and Reinette episodes, because being jealous that the Doctor got information from a server when they're undercover as servers to get information is a mood.

[@mageeaaron2624]

16:34 Oh the Sentinels! 💪

[@silverpriestess1674]

Whoooo I love this two parter! :D

[@HuntingViolets]

I think they never had kids so they used the name they liked for the dog.

[@isthe3rd167]

You say wait a year for the technology to get better. I say come back in six months.

[@t123a698]

Cyberman. Cyberman. Your fiendly neighborhood Cyberman.

[@margiemolina6943]

The truth being stated in this video needs to amplified. Way to go, gentleman!

[@alicequinn505]

15:51 It could've been, if she grew while rich. But it's also just one side of a person.

[@Stuart_Cox1969]

Nice one, thanks.

[@nekobat1962]

People being framed by fake video is also like the movie Running Man.

[@josearroyo8008]

Finally back to Who. I love it.

[@mageeaaron2624]

8:02 😂

[@mageeaaron2624]

12:08 Right! 😂

[@The2Coolest2]

I guess the upload was fixed lol

[@supertell]

This video isn't on your dr who playlist. Had to search for it.

[@mageeaaron2624]

16:45 Yikes! 😂

[@technofilejr3401]

6:18 Yep tell poor homeless folks they can get some free grub and booze and they will walk right into the meat grinder. Very sad!

[@sierramccutchen3531]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@aarowbach8711]

elon average🦨