Five House Rules for a Grittier Game in Dungeons and Dragons 5e

MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarte... Capture a gritty, difficult, and desperate feeling in your Dungeons and Dragons campaign with these five house rules!
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Time Stamps for the rules discussed in this video:
3:17 Lingering Injuries Simplified
6:16 Gritty Realism Rest Variant
9:25 Sanity and Madness
14:12 Handling Resurrection Spells (and House Rules by Matt Mercer)
19:30 Lower the Level Cap (For more ideas, check out the "E6" ruleset for D&D 3e here: esix.pbworks.c...)
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[@Jocaolinita]

"Even mundane things, like watching a dragon burn down your entire village" Pretty mundane, i hate when it happens

[@michaelsorensen7567]

It's so mundane for me that anymore I'm just "meh" "Today is very boring", by Jack Prelutsky

[@remixtheidiot5771]

"Hm? Oh gosh darn it, my house and family is on fire again because of that dragon! What an incredibly mild and minor inconvenience."

[@Loalrikowki]

Must be a Monday!

[@the-wisest-emu]

Not again, darn it!

[@Endershock1678]

Remix The Idiot "It was Taco Tuesday too!"

[@josephmanno4514]

I like how you subtly included "seeing a dragon burn down your home village" in the "real world" category, Monty. Where'd you grow up, bud?

[@sanctifiedsuccubus2562]

Probably Romania

[@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz1024]

" You didn't have dragons running around local villages when you were a kid man you missed out

[@arbadart1012]

I've heard Florida is pretty messed so maybe he lived there as a kid?

[@sulaas]

@@arbadart1012 Trust me Florida is Quite Broken. I would not wish this Hell on anyone. Unfortunately once you get here you never leave...

[@jenschristensen1774]

That's Scotland for ya.

[@SaberusTerras]

I remember how 2e handled raising the dead. Your starting CON score represented an absolute cap on how many times you could be raised. Each raise cost you a CON point, and the caster that did the raising gave up 5 years of lifespan to do it.

[@Blandy8521]

This is an interesting rule that I sent to my dm

[@PGIFilms]

2E was the last version I played. Constitution not only limited how many times you could potentially be raised, but also made it harder to come back next time since the current CON score determined the Resurrection Survival % chance. To top it off your total HP could drop because of the lower CON score. So, if you were a 8th level fighter with a 16 CON (+2 HP/Level) and 63 total HP if you die and are resurrected then your CON drops to 15 and your max total HP also dropped to 55 because a CON 15 only grants +1 HP/level.

[@broomemike1]

Actions having consequences? Inconceivable!

[@matthewsilver892]

Yeah but what was your THAC0?

[@PGIFilms]

@@matthewsilver892 If you are referring to the example I was using involving the 8th Level Fighter, the character's THAC0 would have been 13. Since the discussion is actually on raising dead and CON scores, there is actually no change to THAC0 when a character in BECMI/1E/2E was raise from the dead. The raised character retained their class level(s) and only the CON score (and possibly total HP) changed after being brought back with a Raise Dead/Resurrection spell.

[@Isambardify]

Hail Garud, the level 6 bard with every feat in the game who naps for a week after every day of adventuring! Long may he reign.

[@TheWonkster]

“4th level is when spells start becoming super-heroic.” Yeah, I sure wish I could teleport 500 feet, but I’m just stuck here blasting lightning from my hands.

[@basecode8]

Hears “Getting shot with a few arrows”... immediately thinks of Sean Bean v/ the Uruk-hai.

[@brucetowle9689]

''Tis but a scratch!

[@Nob911]

Hah nice

[@annabaelfire2173]

Sean Bean is best girl confirmed

[@Thundarr100]

I think of the animated version of Boromir. He was shot with far more arrows than Sean Bean was before he finally went down.

[@brianj.841]

There have been real world stories of people being shot several times and surviving.

[@peasant101]

I use sand to make my game more gritty

[@blacknad]

Have you tried using grit?

[@bobjenkins4689]

I hate sand. It's course and irritating and it gets everywhere.

[@jeffreymoynagh5439]

@@bobjenkins4689 You beat me to it! Good on you

[@DessectumRex]

Everyone gets pocket-sand in their inventory in case they need a quick getaway

[@DocDoesGamingTV]

Beholders hate him

[@mikegould6590]

I consider my home game to be gritty. This is how I achieve that: - Enforce spell components. No diamonds means no Revivify. - To that, my gems don't fall off trees. Economics comes into play. My treasures are reasonable. The cost of living is lower. The average farmer would never pay 1gp for anything in an inn. Period. Copper and Silver are the standard wage. My players are on campaign #3 in my world of Tholl, and they JUST had their first big payout of 5000gp....to work for a Hobgoblin Khan to find a safe path through a massive Wild Magic zone. It will be a very hard earned 5K. And they'll appreciate it. Finding diamonds for spell components is rare, and that means the players have to make a choice - invest that diamond or "raise Gary" because "He jumped down that pit without looking" That means that things like plate armor are much rarer. It means that not everything is gem-encrusted. It means that goods like fine silks, master-crafted furniture and paintings are where wealth really lies, and those don't fit easily into backpacks. -Magic has a price. I home brew 90% of my magic items, and they're all quirky. They may have personalities, belong to powerful foes, carry a curse, or have a cost to using them (like hit points). -Roll. Dice. Openly. When players know you won't fudge in their names they'll taker EVERY combat seriously. -To that, I make Crits heroic. I use what I call the "Chris Perkins Rule." That means that the first dice (or set of dice) in an attack roll are maxed for the result, then the second set are rolled. A one-handed longsword with a +3 bonus to damage then doe 11+1d8 damage on a Crit. A "Guiding Bolt" will do 24 +4d6. And because I believe in fair play, the monsters get that rule too. I have one-shotted a Sorcerer with a Mimic. To date, there have been 10 player character deaths at my table. That leads me to... -Have a credo and stick to it. Mine is this: I might save you from a bad roll. I may save you from a monster. I refuse to save you from yourselves. To date, 10 player characters have died in three campaigns. Easily 7 or 8 of those are from self-inflicted poor decisions (and the rest of the table would agree). Why do my players keep coming back when the risks are so high and it sounds like the rewards are low? Because the rewards they get are keyed to the player that gets them. A spear that talks back to the Half-Orc wielding it, crafted from a splinter from Gruumsh's own spear, and which levels in abilities with that character is treasured. It may look rough when found, but just wait... That player went on to win an Orc Civil War in his fathers Orc Nation (The Iron League) and became Kor (Warlord) A book that transports it's owner to the feet of the Dragon whom made it, whom then charges that new owner with tasks is now a plot hook. And the player gets to brag that they speak directly to this creature. I've seen players feed their own hit points into a sword to gain victory in clutch moments and watched a Draconic Sorcerer end a Kobold invasion into a Halfling village end because DEMANDED these little "dragons" "bend the @#$%-ing knee". The name Esgalnoron was spoke in hushed tones, lest "The Dragon" cast his eyes upon you an lay your village to ash. In my current campaign, the leader of a decimated Merc company was willing to enter a duel to the death with another Merc leader for the right for his companions to live, and went on to marry a Hobgoblin woman whom he won the respect of. Heroics. Risk. Reward. Death. Who Dares Wins. If the players want grit, make the risk great and the rewards just as great. Make them earn it. Heroes and Villains rise from reaping their rewards from glorious action.

[@illoney5663]

To be honest, this sounds like a really fun campaign and definitely my style. Well done.

[@utope2]

I would definitely in this game. Love grittier and more deadly worlds. Reviving has always seemed too easy.

[@allanhernandez5556]

Nicely done..something I dis starting in my new campaign is: the first ever 30 rolls are all disadvantage.why? Because you can be taught how to use a sword,but to thrust it into someone's belly is a different thing...they "learned" real combat after those 30...

[@ricardoponcefernandez6339]

Haha, this honestly feels like the game I've been running for almost a year now!

[@illoney5663]

Worth noting though: killing someone in self defence isn't too hard and if you're trained to respond a certain way with a sword, you are likely to respond that way in stress if trained enough, even if you're no longer using a practice sword against someone with a degree of protection. The thing that really hits people hard is the aftermath, PTSD is the simplest one, but regardless of what, most people need to find a way to come to terms with killing others.

[@LordOz3]

In my campaign, dropping to 0 inflicts a level of exhaustion. Recovering exhaustion requires a CON save after a long rest. The DC depends on the conditions - making it worthwhile to splurge on better accommodations/lifestyle expenses. A character with Survival can make a primitive campsite (poor accom) or an equipped campsite (modest - requires tents, bedrolls, and such). No Survival means step down the quality by one - no gear and no skill = you're sleeping on the ground. A long rest does *not* restore hit points. Characters regain half their hit dice, round up. The level cap idea is intriguing. If I used it, I would probably cap at Level 7 and double the xp required to gain levels.

[@BlueTressym]

Mind if I steal this idea?

[@LordOz3]

@@BlueTressym By all means. If anything I say is useful to another GM, I wholeheartedly want them to make use of it, just as I borrow from others.

[@Medicae131]

I'm personally a big fan of Epic Level 6 D&D for all the reasons stated in the video. One thing I'd add to any DMs who feel intrigued by the idea is; Just because the players are level six doesn't mean they should only be getting tier 2 loot. Your fighter will feel amazing with a flame tongue or vorpal sword even if s/he will never see those epic levels.

[@exqueue3813]

I would suggest a level cap of 7. If the cap is 6, then fighter, paladin, and ranger all miss out on their tier 2 subclass features. 7 gives them a real capstone ability. Rogues and monks get evasion at 7 which feels pretty necessary for their survival (and rogues get an extra d6 sneak attack), and 7 is a dead level for all primary casters, so their capstone is access to a single 4th level spell. While that does essentially give primary casters two capstones, their tier 2 subclass feature at level 6 and then the 4th level spell slot, martial classes get their extra attack at 5 plus their tier 2 subclass feature. This simply makes sure that fighters, rangers and paladins don't get shortchanged. For instance Eldritch Knight can't cast a cantrip and attack until 7, which is a key feature of the subclass. Cavalier can't protect his mount until 7. This does make warlocks really powerful, since they get access to two 4th level spell slots, and moon druids break any sort of level restriction rule anyway because they're so overpowered early on. It also allows for interesting multiclassing where 6 levels might feel too restrictive. A two level dip would still allow you to get five levels in a primary class, for either 3rd level spells or extra attack while still letting you dip for action surge, cunning action, a spellcaster subclass, etc.

[@GonzoTehGreat]

Levels are a bad idea in the first place but capping them is even worse. Better to significantly increase the XP for each level instead.

[@evaahh9584]

TheShreester ikr? You simply can’t have an op BBEG be defeatable at level 7

[@GonzoTehGreat]

@@evaahh9584 It also artificially caps player progression midway through a campaign, which is a restriction I'm loathe to place on players. Also, what happens to the class features after level 7? I'd prefer to address the actual issue. If excessive Hit Points are a problem then have players roll for them each level, ensuring they obtain average HP overall. If this is still too much then homebrew a reduced HP increase, such as half their hit die per level (e.g. 1d5 per level for a class which normally has 1d10 hit die), effectively halving their HP while leaving class progression unaffected.

[@evaahh9584]

TheShreester also, if you’re looking for realism, in reality there is no limit to how strong someone can get, and if it’s a long campaign you en up multi classing into 3 classes. It’s not necessarily a bad rule if the campaign is short I guess, but I would never use it for long campaigns

[@4saken404]

I really like your rationale for 7th. That being said I don't feel this "e6" level cap idea is as necessary in 5e as it was in 3rd ed.

[@sonofbelz]

The single best house rule i've used to make things grittier and more tense is making it so any healing spell that is second level or lower can't bring someone to above 1 or more health once they have reached 0, it will only stabilize them. It makes the party carefully consider their options a lot more and someone dropping to 0 is a much bigger deal than "oh just cast healing word on them." Doesn't make a lot of sense to me how someone at 1 health who has just been brought back from the brink of death can fight and move just as capably as if they were at max health so this is my sort of solution.

[@kirktate647]

One of my house rules is that failed death saves don't reset until after a long rest. So if you go to zero, fail a death save, and then get knocked to 0 hp again, you *start* with one failed death save. Once you've failed three death saves in any stretch between long rests, you're just dead.

[@Ann1ka2425]

In my games, you only get 1 death saving throw per long rest.

[@russelljacob7955]

I like that exhaustion approach, especially the rest hybrid concept. I would do it a little different however. 1hour short rest. 8 hour long rest. 24 hour rest for one exhaustion. The progressive 1 then 8 just sounds clunky More numbers game than roleplay.

[@coltonbuhler7011]

You could even say a medium rest only gives you half your spell slots back. And that you still have to roll hit die to recover on a medium rest. Because who ever runs out of hit die? You always get them back first thing in the morning.

[@jakeholmes9296]

I love Matt Merced’s resurrection rules. Completely agree with you that the best part is the party rallying around the fallen member, I’ve used it once and it was one of the best campaign moments!

[@glitterglengames3513]

In the Fever Swamp campaign I ran on my channel, we used a variation of the Gritty Rest rules. I made a short rest a night's sleep, or 8 hours, and a Long Rest was defined as "a day off of adventuring in a safe location." A week felt a bit overkill to me, but a day worked out nicely in practice. At first the PCs had to return to the village of Clink in order to rest, but as the campaign went onward, they found villages of The People who they befriended, letting them acquire new places to safely rest and expand their reach into the Fever Swamp. It worked really well for my purposes.

[@mateusviniciusduponttomasi7826]

Hey, closed captions are pretty much apreciated, please enable them, even the auto-generated ones

[@anthonynorman7545]

I didn't know that the channel was why that wasn't there. Thanks for the info.

[@giovaniteixeira67]

Listen to them and you'll quickly improve your listening ability.

[@mateusviniciusduponttomasi7826]

​@@giovaniteixeira67 I have a hearing impairment

[@rancid7182]

@@mateusviniciusduponttomasi7826 KZbin has a built in auto captions

[@Veristelle-]

@@rancid7182 He was saying auto captions were disabled.

[@Coswagrigus]

Monty “One Hoodie String” Martin

[@elrikmordner]

It took me a second to find the other one. lol

[@fadinggrin4700]

I always add fears to my characters because it always adds fun and sometimes hilarious roleplay scenarios. My current character is claustrophobic and hes afraid of being alone in the dark. No darkvision and both of these are tied into his backstory. Oh and he can't swim.

[@PhyreI3ird]

I love the idea of adding a status effect if someone's brought back to consciousness mid-fight. I may well end up using that. What I do for my 'gritty' (really just low-magic) campaign is: 1) Resurrection is not a thing (undead tinkering, is) 2) Teleportation long distances (and planar transport/magic) relies on the phases of the three moons and is something the players would have to dedicate time to understanding since the people who know this aren't going to be telling anyone about it. (Things like Misty Step and whatnot still work normally though) 3) Healing magic and potions give EITHER Temporary hit-points of equal value to the spell/potion (which could signify a bunch of more grounded effects like a divine ward, a combat stimulant, or raw vitality) or actually heal a small amount of damage every hour until the total rolled is met. 4) I don't want to kill the players (I really don't honestly), but the enemies do. 5) They may well run into enemies that are not level appropriate. 6) The level issue will probably be mitigated by all of the above, and if they do manage to survive to above level seven and get crazy powerful, than they have certainly earned it and should feel awesome for it. 7) Magic Items are more rare, but more distinct than just +1 Flaming Longsword or +1 Ring of Protection.

[@AdmiralFerret]

0:00 : Sponsor (Lets get them paid, guys!) 1:23 Begin Episode 3:17 1st House Rule : Lingering Injury 6:15 2nd House Rule : Gritty Realism Rest Variant 9:25 3rd House Rule : Sanity & Madness 15:02 4th House Rule : Matt Mercer's Resurrection Rules 19:30 5th House Rule : Level Cap 6

[@andrasbalatoni6818]

Thanks! You are the MVP!

[@mi.Dalton]

I added the concept of lingering injuries, but mine was definitely more punishing. Being drowned to death might make you very hesitant of going into water ever again. Being roasted to death by a fire dragon might leave permanently sensitive skin to fire or difficulty in hot weather. That campain was a nightmare though.

[@jamesloder8652]

I've been using the Gritty Realism rules for resting, for regaining health and hit dice ONLY. They can still perform a short rest or long rest as normal to regain spell slots and class features, because taking a week off every time you need to regain an ability sounds a lot like "dnd without getting to actually play your class"

[@deborahphillips500]

I’ve used all of these, in one form or another, except for the level cap. I might consider that one. The best thing about a gritty campaign is how much it encourages role play, what I consider to be the best part of D&D.

[@IrontMesdent]

For my resurrection rules: Everytime the characters die, a part of their "souls" gets lost in the astral plane and with it, their experience and even some memories. The more often the process is done, the more damaged the soul becomes. On the resurrection, they loose 1 level. This makes characters harder to maintain and follow the group, since they will become disadvantaged and will need to be extra careful while fighting. It's a big consequence.

[@savannahshane2231]

That is quite the intense rule. I respect it but wouldn't see myself implementing it in my own campaigns. Perhaps for shorter campaigns or one shots for a grittier, more intense experience. For longer campaigns, I worry it'd start to create issues about power and equality between players. I do think applying the Resurrection spell debuff (The target takes a −4 penalty to all attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks. Every time the target finishes a long rest, the penalty is reduced by 1 until it disappears.) would be an interesting take on all character deaths and revives. Maybe rolling 1d4 instead of automatically taking the −4 to allow for some more fun.

[@doublea125]

How I rule resurrections: If your character was resurrected by any means short of the True Resurrection spell, your character loses one level in the last class they took. They also lose hit points equal to the highest possible result on the class' hit die (without adding the constitution modifier). This is one way it has been done in previous editions and I think it really does justice to the ordeal that is dying and then being put back into that body to make it function again.

[@johnathonhamilton232]

That’s pretty good

[@doublevisionmedialiaisons2235]

I remember the old way. Pretty much sucks as a double punishment. You died. Epic level emotion pain. The spell costs. And then sorry - your party is now higher level than you just because you rolled badly on your dice rolls. Sorry to be you. Want more salt? Do you trust me as your DM now that I've punished you further and Lvl disparaged the group?

[@nutterbutter9069]

One of my current DMs is using levels of exhaustion for the progressive effects of some poisons (which my character is currently suffering through, so I know they are no joke) to create a gritty, realistic feel, and it’s pretty darn effective

[@thefakeslimshady8881]

I had a character who had fear of being buried alive and it was awesome because on more than one occasion he had to be knocked out by our barbarian to go into underground houses or holes

[@whafrog]

The level 6 cap is just what I've been looking for for the past several years, thanks!

[@nreed200]

I love the borrowed time rule "Let me come back and finish this one task, then I will fade into darkness."

[@joegaylord87]

Yeah, I think I would track it separately from the HP Max, so you have 1 day/HP but don't have them reduce, just because that keeps from from getting SUPER fragile on your last few days.

[@joshuawright4198]

I have an idea for the deal with the god of death where they could just reach out to the players and be like sup you can have your friend back but you owe me a favour and then you could make them do terrible things because if they piss off the god of dead their friends soul would be stolen

[@MorriganQueen451]

Ah yes, the classic "I don't feel so good" strategy

[@magiv4205]

The Vax way

[@Kai-ow9gi]

Reminds me of Goku

[@pimpa1]

Hey guys, I just wanted you to know that despite the fact I am DMing a campaign in a complete different system (GURPS), your videos give me tons of ideas on how to handle some stuff as well as house rules that I can easily adapt and make my game more fun. Thanks for the great job you are doing!

[@NRMRKL]

I think level 9 makes more sense for a level cap, to me at least. It would allow all classes to gain their second subclass feature and some of the more flavourful class features (like the speak with dead invocation and monk wall/water running), it stops just short of otherworldly or grit-negating features like divine intervention or aura of courage and last but not least, if a players want to multiclass because they have a specific character concept, they can do so without making their character completely suck at combat (outside of a few builds that might still be viable). I'd also consider keeping the proficiency modifier progression going - keep the power level more or less the same but improve the accuracy of attacks/spells.

[@RobertRay22]

101k subs? Y’all are killing it

[@RobertRay22]

Dezbood If they aren’t, I certainly haven’t seen another that has been growing like this. Hopefully we can all continue to see it grow the way it has been for the foreseeable future, the content definitely warrants it.

[@MyBacktrail]

A 2 year old channel with 100k+ subs and 11 million views. Yes, they are doing something right.

[@Freelancer4tehwin]

Other variants along the same line: - Wound points equal to the character's constitution+proficiency bonus. Every time the player drops to zero or takes a critical, they take a wound point. Wound points require active down time to recover from, and reflect deeper injuries that Hit Points (Hit point being a combination of fatigue, injury, and stress coming together to lead to the PC messing up and taking a serious hit). When a player exhausts their wound points, they take a permanent injury. In most relatively high-pace campaigns (especially when the DM makes time constraints a concern) a level 10 character with 12-18 wound points can exhaust them over the course of an adventure. - 8 hour short rest, 2 day long rest. This hits a sweet spot of not sidelining the party for too long, while also making long rests a use of resources. With this modification, I would also allow ritual casting of some spells during the rests however, such as identify or Leomund's Tiny Hut. I would also permit simple downtime activities, such as research, of listening in at the tavern to try and catch gossip. The rest mechanics really apply pressure to the combat game, and while they should limit the non-combat game, they should also encourage pursuing it. - On Resurrection: Let the NPCs use it. If your PC group kills an enemy, and assume the enemy is dead, it's pretty jarring when they come roaring back with vengeance, and inside knowledge. Ambush and vendetta are tools that can be hard for DMs to use, because the PCs like to kill their way through problems. Make death as cheap for serious enemies as for the party.

[@sparklingwater925]

This is great! Question on wound points: what's the debilitation from this? And do they gain or do they lose wound points?

[@WarChief781]

The "borrowed time" rule gave me chills

[@beardslybeardington2090]

I like to add in the Vices and Virtues from World Of Darkness for character creation. It provides an easy path to roleplay more, as well as tempt/reward the players.

[@NoInfoAvail]

2:36 is when the video actually begins.

[@MFinGonzo]

Hero

[@FDroid01]

Thank you!

[@chaselowell4567]

Gonna add this here. I’ve been using this in my games and it works great. Semi gritty realism. Short rests are unchanged but long rests take a full day of no spending spell slots, taking damage or making a constitution saving throw or dc 20 or above ability score checks. In addition exhaustion only applies if the targets didn’t take a short rest which included at least 6 hours of sleep. In general this method has had the folllowing positive effects. 1 characters actually get to do stuff during long rests making it feel less like a fade to black. 2 the hit dice mechanics r actually really fun when played this way and you can add more stuff to spend hit dice on like magic item charges. 3 characters use up all their resources and then come up with creative solutions to these problems. 4 Short rest classes finally shine

[@matthewwoods632]

At first I thought that the lvl 6 cap would be brutal, but thinking through it some, it’d be such a cool game lol you could play a very immersive LotR type game with the low level protagonist feeling more heroic then superheroic lol.

[@magalusha69]

My campaing is base on "Darkest Dungeon" we implement a Stress and Madness sistem. It turn out than Stress is more deadly

[@belzyk3dg122]

Bruh.... stress is like the most damaging thing in our real world. A good 80% or so of sickness or problems is because people are under stress.

[@mauriceanderson5413]

I homebrewed in a similar system that is based on vanilla 5e exhaustion, where fear and other strong mentally damaging effects can stack up to 7. Reaching 7, character rolls 1d12 where 7 are negative afflictions, 4 are negative and 1 is a drop of 2 stacks. This really lets me balance the power of mid-late characters when they fight creatures horrifying and unimaginable for common people.

[@dynamicworlds1]

Been contemplating stress systems. Did you get yours from somewhere I might look up?

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

@@dynamicworlds1 he said darkest dungeon.

[@okbkcq]

@@dynamicworlds1 Call of Cthulhu is the wellspring of madness/sanity

[@mattopmasterX]

About the fears: I mastered the first session of a new campaign last Saturday. 2 players only. I gave my players the task to choose one fear each for their characters, and I was pleasantly surprised. One had the fear of fire and the other the fear of boxes. The one with the fear of boxes had, in the first session, its fear actually help him out. They were accused of having stolen goods they were supposed to transport, and the npc used a truth serum on the character to discover it really has a phobia of boxes... Probably the best first session I had mastered in my career as a DM

[@KSeigY]

I'd kinda like to hear your thoughts on the opposite: where the characters feel high powered while keeping things challenging, balanced, and interesting

[@bonzwah1]

I feel like thats less about house rules and more about a mentality. I feel like all you need to do is try to provide a challenge without considering too much how your players will defeat the challenge, then, when your players come up with a solution, whether that be a spell, a class feature, or a creative tactic, let that solution solve the problem. They will feel very powerful and creative, and they will feel challenged because if they hadn't done that then the encounter would have been challenging. maybe that's not what you're looking for, but I've found a lot of GM's kinda get caught in a sort of "arms race" where they are always planning to cut off their player's options, and I feel like if your goal is to make the characters fell high powered, all you need to do is let them use the options that the game gives them to solve their problems lol. The only trick is to make sure that if they don't use those resources and features, then they would fail

[@MeTaLISaWeSoMe95]

I mean I gave my players each an ultra powerful artifact at the very beginning of our campaign... And I offset it by making each one of them have a crippling downside to balance it out, and it led to the first few sessions where they were just trying to find a way to counter or stop the curse or what have you. It's been pretty fun. Of course the entire point of the campaign is for the characters to literally become Gods in time.

[@MeTaLISaWeSoMe95]

That said I've also made sure that I use tactics in battles so it's still challenging for them to beat

[@milesmatheson1142]

Decrease EXP and treasure rewards, or increase the prices of weapons and armor. Or, bump-up the denominations, where something costing 10 silver, now costs 10 gold, instead. Make weapons and armor only available illegally or for purchase from local militia or military groups, as local rulers don't want ordinary peasants rising up. This also encourages players to take the Craft and Profession skills seriously. Make "adventurer" a legal status in your world- PCs are exempt from taxes, from the political hierarchy, and all other responsibilities. But they sacrifice any legal protections (fair trial, legal representation, etc) and rights to things like property, government funded education, etc. A good framework is the "Freeman on the Land" status in real life. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land

[@Shadowmarkc80]

It’s really heart warming to see you guys succeed. I’ll be starting my own D&D campaign very soon because of your videos, thank you so much!

[@alanschaub147]

When I DM, I also give characters a level of exhaustion when they take damage from a single attack that is more than half their max Hit Points (including any temporary hit points).

[@davidhamblin5825]

You two have shaped the way I play my games so much for the better! Can't wait to try out these rules

[@Joust149]

Hearing that "Epic 6" actually works in 5e is amazing. I've been running E6 in D&D 3.5 for over a decade, but the crunch is starting to wear on me as a DM and I've been wanting to move to 5e for a while now. I'm literally giddy over these rules 🤩

[@JackOfHearts42]

The rule I like most is the level 6 cap. Still lots of opportunities to get a tiny bit more powerful, and probably find better gear or more wealth, so there's still personal "progress".

[@gregoryrussellakainfinitet6682]

This is awesome. My first campaign, my PCs are about to hit 14. I will make their next one a gritty one and change it up. It's nice to feel like a god, but it's also amazing to feel like a normal person and slay a god. Bravo!

[@iparkedmycar]

On the subject of resurrection . Usually for my campaigns I keep revivify as is but remove resurrection and true resurrection spells. For raise dead in order for the party to have this spell completed it is only known by usually 1 or 2 wise sages throughout the world and I make the party complete a quest to retrieve some ultra rare material component so the sage can perform the spell/ritual. (This also may mean bending the 10 day rule but still make the party feel the pressure of time against them) The rest of the rules for the spell I keep the same. This makes death more weighty and meaningful. If the party REALLY cares about that dead rogue they will go to the end of the world and back to bring them back to them.

[@jenschristensen1774]

What do the person playing the rogue do in the meantime? I try to avoid having players idling, and while I truly love your concept would I have to have the rogue-player take on an intermediate support character or similar to keep them in the game, while they try to bring the rogue back.

[@tryman1592]

one thing you could for level above 6, is to tell them you can get a point to add to ability score, a feat or pick 3 card of the tarot pile.(you prepared a list for the effect they give the player) and informed them that as their fate as been drawn they feel odd as if something just reveal to them a new power. wizard get a spell above their level on certain card on others he get info where he can find more powerfull spell etc. it add flavor and help for the rp.

[@LukazDane]

My dungeon master implemented the gritty rest variant into our run of Tomb of annihilation and I gotta say, I absolutely hate it. There are 2 sorcerers in our party(everyone else is warlock or some type of melee class) and we still have to do all the traveling so we're pretty much useless after 1 day. Short rests being 8 hours does nothing for us and heals up and resets every other member in our party. Don't think ours was the type of campaign meant for that rule, but the dm loves it and the non-casters don't care. We realize we have no choice but to roll up new character's or veer into warlock if we ever wanna be useful

[@swiftdragonrider]

Yea it fucks up spell casters especially at lower levels. I think wizards have some way of gaining back some spells after a short rest. But how do other characters regain hit points? Don't you run out of hit dice

[@Doom8810]

Another idea about the death curse, is a DC 10 Con check to see if you lose a max hp that day, and the DC increases by 1 for every day you have succeeded in a row, reseting the DC to 10, as the characters fight back against death trying to take them back

[@jaspermooren5883]

Subbed like 95k subs ago, nice to see you grow so much! That's what happens with all to good content :). I love some of these rules. Not a fan of Sanity and Madness, but that is just because I'm a bit allergic to rules that dictate roleplay (which I think these rules do a bit). I might implement the exhaustion on 0 hp and the Matt Mercer Resurrection rules are great. I think at least, I don't speak from experience (other than watching critical role). I never had a character die with an actual character that could resurrect in the party. All deaths in games I've been in have been at lvl 1-4 or games without casters that could resurrect that weren't the ones who died. Edit: typo's

[@brianburke808]

14:11 yup. death is negotiable. In my campaign world, if (for instance) the thieves guild wanted to send a "warning" to a very rich nobleman, they would just kill him, which would set him back the cost of a resurrection spell from whichever of the city's major churches he patronizes. If the guild really wanted him out of the way, they would prepare some way to trap/banish/destroy his soul as well.

[@nico11225]

You guys have the best knowledge ive seen for this game as well as love the gameplay you guys do ots helped immensely for me as a new DM

[@sternenwind00e]

for the structure and timestamps alone, i have to give y an upvote

[@zynthio]

If level capping seems too extreme you could also put a cap on spell levels. So casters still gain higher slots as they go up, but they have to use them on their lower level spells.

[@richardcampbell4506]

Great ideas and if you implement them all at the same time then just wait for next week’s video on fitting new characters into an existing party 😁

[@demonzero677]

I like the level capped idea with on caveat. Allow a single multiclass for the players. I.E. they can be up to 6th level in two classes, but no more than that. This way you can still get some of those fun multiclass combinations to spice up things, but the trade off is that while you're multiclasses are getting more class features, your single class characters are getting a considerable stat increase, so you add the choice of better stats, or more features. I will say that to stay in line with the idea of low magic, a rules for multiclassing spellcasters would now work like spellcasters multiclassing with warlock, that is that each classes spell slots are calculated separately. This would mean they still only get slots equal to each of their individual classes, they'd just end up with a fair more 1st and 2nd level spell slots, which lets them do more magical things, just none of the super high level stuff. I suppose you could also preference this with the Hit Die of the second class are completely ignored, meaning you would get to pick which 6th level classes hit die you wanna use, but you don't get more then the other party members.

[@JLRFirewave]

This video es BRILLIANT. I've been thinking about rules like these for months, and I reached to some of them that were really similar, but in halv an hour I've rebuild all the house rules I were using for a grittier game. Thank you so much, you've done an amazing job

[@benl4198]

You guys should check out giffyglyph's Darker Dungeons rule tweaks. They're modular and amazing

[@sampsanylund6580]

Haven't come across this one before. Thank you so much for mentioning it!

[@captaindudeman3613]

Thanks for posting this!

[@sectorbob]

Very cool. I do something like his trials but his rules are better and clearly written. NICE!

[@Nomadic813]

With the gritty realism rest variant, I'd say be aware that different classes will be affected VERY differently. A warlock who gets his spells back after every short rest all of a sudden becomes a lot more viable than a wizard who has the wait a week before getting theirs back. It heavily favours martial classes or classes with abilities that refresh on short rest. I would lay it out pretty explicitly for my players rather than just telling them about the rule because a lot of players won't see the implications by themselves and will be very choked when they realize they're essentially just a commoner cause they didn't realize all their abilities only refresh on a long rest.

[@martinp1054]

with the borowed time thing, i can already see somebody begging cleric to repeatedly cast Aid on them, just so that they can get a few more days

[@KatsuhiroHebi]

Monty was my favorite. But then Kelly wears a metroid shirt. Now i dont know who’s my favorite.

[@nathanielwilder5990]

How about Both

[@patricknielsen8088]

I wanna buy that shirt. Came to the comments hoping someone would know where to find it

[@PearseNation]

I’m as into grittier games, but the idea of capping characters around 7, 9, or 11 is really interesting to me. I think that range is the sweet spot for dnd combat with the friends I play with. I’ll have to keep that in mind and run it by them.

[@PearseNation]

Especially since the world logic of 9th level spells is just pretty baffling.

[@bluefish5]

I love the videos you guys produce and this one is no exception. These Optional Rules kind of takes D&D back to its roots -not something I had any personal experience with previously. However, that's how I made my home game grittier. We ditched the 5e rules entirely and converted our game to a B/X (Basic D&D) retro-clone. It added a whole new level of weird to the game as fantasy genre assumptions today are much different than back in 1981, and we are having a blast exploring the games roots and inspirations from Appendix N. We've had a few fatalities in our game due to the grittier rules, but because character creation takes 5 minutes it's no big deal. The unexpected side effect is that even minor accomplishments of the survivors feel hard-earned and epic. It's been a very rewarding and interesting experience. I still love 5e, but I think scrappy old B/X is going to be my go-to system for a long time to come.

[@geoffdewitt6845]

I love the idea of the PCs recruiting a high-level bad guy to work with them and then the bad guy shows up and now he's a 6th-level oathbreaker, not a 15th-level one.

[@jordancabe732]

We've been using the adjusted rest for awhile now and, whiel it does put the breaks on a campaign, it heightens the realism and works really, really well for roleplay moments.

[@SaintVoid]

This video topic is my bread and butter. I spent the last 2 years with my last group testing and revising gritty rules. My spin on your first two rules are; yes, falling to 0 hp gives exhaustion, but also gives Wounds. And then a 3rd rest type that all hooks into it. For it to work, Long rest no longer restores HP automatically, must use HD (DMG 267), but also does not regain HD or spell slots (arcane recovery still works). Healing on a SR or LR requires Healers Kits along with Hit Dice (DMG 266). I also have a revised injury table and the like of alternate rules. I plan on publishing a free document sometime soon, but here is an excerpt. WOUNDS - When a character suffers severe damage from a critical hit, massive damage (DMG 273), dropping to 0 hit points or fails a death save by 5 or more, that character receives a wound counter. Wound counters have a cumulative effect of -1 on all attack rolls, ability checks, saving throws, and death saves (maximum of -5). Wounds counters can be removed when the character can recover hit points during a rest. Wound removal requires the expenditure of 1 Hit Dice per wound counter to be removed. The expenditure of the die does not heal hit point damage as normal. Not all wound counters need be removed during the same rest. Wounds may also be removed with healing magic, replacing the need of expending Hit Dice. A Cure Wounds spell can remove 1 wound counter per die of healing (1d8) in lieu of healing normal hit point damage. Additionally, instances of magical healing that is a static number, such as a paladin’s lay on hands, every 5 points of healing can be expended to remove a wound counter. FULL REST - A Full Rest or “Town Rest” requires a character to spend 24 hours in a secure or civilized location with ample supply of food and drink, such as relaxing in the town inn. This may include some light activities such as studying, gambling or carousing. A character regains all hit points, 1⁄2 character level (minimum of 1) in expended Hit Dice and 1 level of exhaustion at the completion of a full rest. A character spending the majority of the time in prayer or meditation also regains all expended spell slots. Additionally, if the Inn is of “Comfortable” or greater, the character regains 1 additional level of exhaustion, and instead regains all expended Hit Dice, and removes all wounds.

[@chrisvelo2595]

I like these kind of rules but you do have to provide more town rests then normal. For instance you should still roughly follow the number of encounters per long rest or you will then skew the power curve of characters so that one's that get a lot back on SR will be far superior then those that get stuff back on a LR. For instance a 3rd level battle master can get his action surge, second wind, and superiority dice all back after a SR but a cleric will only get their channel Divinity and that's it.

[@SaintVoid]

@@chrisvelo2595 Like I've said, I've tested this over 2 years, with multiple party set-ups. It isn't theoretical. The changes are about resource management. Yes, a Fighter gets everything back on a SR, but they don't have much to get back. A cleric only gets back Channel Divinity on a SR, but they also have their spells, which numbers-wise; a first level Inflict wounds or guiding bolt is almost equal to all a fighter's battle dice. Not to mention, at lower levels, they have just as good of AC and weapons as most fighters. Plus Cantrips. The change really brings the SR classes (fighter, warlock, monk) much more in line with the LR classes (cleric, wizard, paladin), with the common pacing of most groups. The 5E system was designed for 6 encounters per LR. However, No one EVER does that. Most groups Rest, Nova, Rest, Nova, repeat. Maybe 2 battles inbetween some times. Mike Mearls even did a poll. Having it be a "TOWN" thing allows you as a DM to more easily keep pressure on them story-wise, so they have to go through multiple combats before a complete rest. It's all about setting the gritty play style, which is what this video was about. My rules are not for Epic-Heroic fantasy. It's the Survival mode of Skyrim, or the Witcher as opposed to Final Fantasy.

[@chrisvelo2595]

@@SaintVoid I don't doubt that your rules work I was just in a previous game where the dm had similar rules but he was more like pushing 8-10 encounters per long rest and it really handicapped our LR players. Surprisingly it really crippled our barbarian since they could only rage a certain amount of times per long rest but was still kindve expected to tank some damage

[@0744401]

For the lvl 6 cap, I'd tweak it so that the fighter receives their lvl 7 martial archetype improvement at lvl 6 instead of an ability score increase, given that they no longer become as rare to the rest if the classes.

[@emessar]

I really like the lingering injuries implementation. I don't know that I would do it for critical hits, but doing it whenever someone is dropped to zero hp or fail a death save by 5 sounds good to me. I might also have resurrection spells bring a character back at a certain exhaustion level (or have the caster and/or the target make a check to determine exhaustion level of the target). This makes death a setback and prevents PC whack-a-mole. I think for a grittier rest variant, it's easier to just look back at previous editions and just say that characters only get back 1 or 2 hp per level, rather than lengthening the rest time (or maybe 10% or 20% rounded up). Another thing you could do is modify the exhaustion rules (if using the lingering injuries rules) so that each level of exhaustion lowers your maximum hit points by 1 x your level per exhaustion level (to a minimum of your level in hp). So a 5th level character with three levels of exhaustion would reduce their hp max by 15). Then replace level 4 exhaustion with "speed reduced to 5". Fair warning: This is a bit more punishing to characters at the low end of the hit dice spectrum (sorcerers and wizards), but they are also not usually front line combatants. Doing this would make those lingering injuries even more impactful and prevent characters regaining full hp every night. I can see using sanity and madness in certain campaigns. I don't know that you need a separate sanity stat. I think that some combination of wisdom, intelligence, and charisma saves could be used to resist and/or recover depending on the situation. Personally, I don't think it's something I would normally mess with in D&D. I like the idea of resurrection effects having a fail chance, and of having the effect have timer. Not so much a fan of the character's hp being diminished over time. I just think that just runs against the narrative strength of the returned character. Other possibilities might include having the resurrection be a powerful persistent effect instead of an instantaneous one. That would mean that it might be possible to dispel the effect. If you want to mitigate that, instead of the dispel insta-killing a character, they have to make death saves. On three successes, they become anchored to their world, but on three fails they die again. For some added flavor, consider any resurrected character not bound to the world to be considered an "outsider" for the purposes of magic. They can be kept out, contained, or detected as if they were outsiders (celestial, fiend, etc). One last possibility is that the resurrected is bound to the cleric that raised them. If the cleric dies, any people they've resurrected start making death saves to root themselves to the world. This gives your NPC's a way to indirectly attack the PC's. I think the biggest problem with characters over level 6 is mostly the spells, so rather than cap characters at 6, maybe spells could have additional restrictions. One possibility: casting a 4th level or higher spell gives the character a level of exhaustion. This would only apply to spells 4th level or higher, not slots used at that level, so a character could still use a level 4 slot to cast cure wounds without taking the exhaustion. Another possibility is that 4th level spells and higher require a caster roll (DC: 10 + spell level). Failure still consumes the spell slot. Critical failure could result in a negative consequence up to and including death.

[@alexszabo8010]

The sanity check reminds me of Amnesia: The Dark Descent, would love to add that to my games! Thank you guys as always! #yesyesyesyesyes

[@johnrogers1747]

A rule I really like is the Stamina system used in both Starfinder, and as a variant rule in Pathfinder 2e. Each class has a pool of Stamina points, that increases as you level similar to hitpoints, and only take a 10 minute short rest to regain, but in return you can only roll your hit dice when you take a long rest, instead of regaining all hitpoints.

[@v3n1t0]

Hey dungeon dudes ive been around for quite some time and you are my favourite dnd tubers and im looking forward to ur videos every week unfortunately i dont have the time to watch your campaigns but im sure theyre amazing i only listen to em as a fairy tale when going to bed i would like you to know that your hard work is really appreciated and that i really share your way of thinking and you are helping me a ton as i am the dungeon master for the only place in my town for dnd and i run three different campaigns and you guys keep getting me inspired keep up the good work i would only love if youd make two videos a week i would never miss a single one great job

[@elmsigreen]

A Cleric in my party used revivify on a evil-ish party member and had to switch deities and turned into a Death domain Cleric

[@israelcowl6764]

One idea I did for the level 6 cap was allow characters in addition to purchasing feats with xp was to purchase their class/subclass abilities with their xp, but they would have to purchase them in they would get them.

[@TheWolf-sv1xj]

You guys make awesome videos and you’ve helped me so much with my campaigns. You guys are doing great work with your videos! Keep it going!

[@matthewjennings7645]

Changing the rest mechanic made the whole game so much better. It forces players to play through their rest rather than "We sleep. Any interruptions? Then we'll start the next day!" Having downtime activity, their choosing to investigate socially or scout areas out, traveling leisurely, these story elements are longed for by many and Gritty Realism Rest Variant makes it happen. I'm testing a rule where the first injury after a long rest is exhaustion, the second on the injury table, and repeat. This keeps them from immediately dying to exhaustion, as well as from casually losing an eye.

[@schlattkoin9368]

Love the video today guys. Really helpful as I am new to dming and this is helpful thanks

[@omnicoeur]

Shadow Hearts was a PS2 RPG game that included a cool sanity system. One of the best RPGs I've ever played.

[@masonfoster151]

Literally all of these ideas are in my game. I had done a complete overhaul of the game, and boy was it a chore. after my players not being so sure about the new rules they have gotten used to it. in fact most even love it. i plan on trying to publish these rules out. but i must warn you, this is not a beginners game. it is very dark, brutal, and rewarding. but my game changes go across so much more than you covered here. i am currently working on building a base world(though you can use any) and making a large monster compendium.

[@robinwang6399]

I make my pc or npc continuously loos health if they take a critical hit but no one healed them.

[@lonewaer]

In the Pathfinder campaigns I played, we had two decks of cards. 1) Each time anyone rolled a critical hit, instead of rolling damage, we would roll 1d52 (arbitrary) in the first deck, and apply the effects described on the card to the target/enemy. Most of them would still deal normal or critical damage, but generally had additional effects. 2) Each time anyone rolled a natural 1 on attacks, we would roll 1d52 (still arbitrary) in the second deck, and apply the effects described on the card to the character/monster who rolled a 1. Those were really fun, even if incredibly incapacitating. On top of those, the universe only allowed one magic user class, a custom one, that couldn't raise or resurrect. If we _fell_ fell, that was the end. Well I did fall twice, losing two characters in those campaigns. One who died tanking the last boss of the first campaign, and another who threatened a lich's phylactery. Another player lost a character ; the rest were fine (probably traumatized, but fine). I would heavily recommend, not the single-custom-magic-class, nor the no-resurrection-rule, but the decks of cards, or something similar, a table of critical successes and one of critical failures, that can be randomized. On top of making the campaign feel more real and more serious, it also creates incredible moments of laughter. Arguably, a third deck/table could be made for skill checks failures. It could just simply be adding impactful flavor to critical failures. In a similar vein of having critical results have more impact on the game, another system that I found interesting, was the advantage and disadvantage system in the relatively recent Star Wars RPG (different system from the D&D advantage/disadvantage system). It could be easily adapted for any D20 system. Basically, any critical success rolled gives an "advantage" to a character/monster, and any critical failure gives a "disadvantage" to them instead. Those "advantages"/"disadvantages" can be used, not immediately, but in the close future (in the next minute/ couple of rounds in game or something). When used, an "advantage" can improve a result of a later action by the same character, and a "disadvantage" (used at the DM's request and discretion) will put the character in a more difficult situation in a further action. Again, what's possible is to be discussed with the DM, case by case, to make things fair. Now, since the terms are already used in D&D, there would be a need to rename them, but the idea works really well. The decks of cards/tables of crit results are good ways to have a streamlined, do-it-once-and-be-done-with-it way to deal with crits. On the other hand, the advantage/disadvantage system from SWRPG is a good way to deal with crits on a case by case basis, and to have a more creative and tailored narrative about the current short span of events. The level cap seems like a bandaid to me, because doing that would include doing something about warlocks and their spellcasting. Why ever play a sorcerer or a wizard when you can play a warlock ? The fact the warlock is getting his spells back on a short rest, as opposed to a long rest is balanced by the fact that he only has limited access to spells of 6th level and above, but if suddenly the max level of spells that can be used is 4th, that effectively removes the balancing of the warlock, and leaves him being too powerful. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it needs to not be ignored, so that's additional work. One way to do it another way would be to nerf Hit Dice when leveling up. d6 become d4, d8 become d6, etc.

[@karpmageddon4155]

I think a general rule that would invariably make 5e or any other settings you play in more gritty is to simply make things make sense. The "rule of logic" if you will to go along the lines of the "rule of cool" and the like. Now you might say that means making things realistic and to that I'd say yes and no. Because while we can apply our logic to a fantasy setting to a degree, magic and monsters makes things weird. And that's a good thing but it also means thinking outside of our logic box sometimes. For example, elves and other long lived creatures should be difficult for us mere mortals to conceptualize under normal circumstances. Of course on the other hand we can take our unique experience with radiation in this world, twisting and turning how the effects of magic are in a particular fantasy world as a result. Either way, when a world makes sense then players become more invested as there are stakes and costs to their actions as well as those around them. And honestly I feel the point of making things "gritty" is to establish such a connection but that also doesn't mean making things a nightmare either, which I do see a lot of gritty rules gravitate towards as an easy way to make things connective. So are monsters regularly attacking villages? Those villages will build walls and have guards. Or alternatively, adventurers will be contracted much like exterminators and deal with an areas monsters on a regular basis. And to that point, why isn't there some sort of goblin repellent or ogre traps? Seems to me in a world plagued by monsters that also has loads of magic and crazy technology, you'd think something be thought up. But now what about those OP adventurers? Even at 5th level, casters are practically walking WMDs. Is magic regulated as a result? Do casters have to become registered and therefore under close watch? And as it was said at a certain point a single adventurer can take on many guards or soldiers. How does a king feel when he can potentially be overthrown by a group of only 4 to 6 individuals? Bribery, assassination or strict laws? And now that the king has thrown his weight around against the local heroes, will the people they helped go along with the kings decree? Also those monsters being exterminated, will they go along as well? Even if most aren't very smart, survival is survival and revenge is revenge. Armies will form, adventurers will end up on a monsters bounty board. Lots of questions can be asked and many answers can be given. One reason why I love Eberron is that it very much uses the "rule of logic" and both asks and answers many similar questions.

[@DWQMusic]

I would change the critical hit exhaustion into a con save after hit by a crit, just like with concentration. Because if your lvl 15 barbarian who can reckless forever takes 5 crits, which is not super unlikely if there are a lot of mobs with multi attack, the just insta die. They are easy to hit, and they often have advantage against them. So a con save of 10 or half of the crits damage feels more fair to the hp tanks in the team.

[@seanpchristy]

I've been looking for something like world anvil!

[@keetonmitchell4669]

I am actually working on a plan for an industrial revolution era game and I have been trying to figure out a way to balance things and make the world interesting and different from normal DnD. This actually gave me a number of ideas on how to approach some things. I think I might just introduce a level cap and make higher magic something that has to be obtained through artifacts of old and carefully preformed rituals. To make things even more terrifying for some of my players I have ruled that society has moved away from the days where people could just wear armor and weapons through town freely. Have fun getting into a brawl with only 13 AC, because you are about to feel the pain of wizards

[@kevinwilson4238]

Thoughts on characters learning new skills as they level?

[@alainmarroquin5742]

I think it depends on time, not level

[@botondhetyey159]

Twist on the sanity rule I used in a Lovecraft-influenced story: Some monsters are hidden from characters with too high sanity. (either completely undetectable, or having low sanity gives a passive perception bonus on them, etc.) You can have any narrative justifications for this, but the reason this works so well, is if you want to use hallucinations with your low sanity characters, the players are not certain themselves, whether it's a hallucination, or a real monster. My players said this helped immensly with getting into roleplaying the paranoia, and slipping sanity, as they are not quite sure, whether the weird floating eyeball watching them is just a hallucination, or they just alerted whatever monster is around the corner to their presence.

[@Nystagmium]

I love the alternate resting, but how do you handle knife-ears under the adapted rules?

[@christopherrocco56]

Lmao, I am guessing that knife ears equals elf? I'm assuming that they would still be able to rest quicker than a normal humanoid so if it took a normal humanoid one week to rest and I would say that it would take one day or maybe even three or four days for a knife ear to rest🔪🗡️😂😭

[@revshad4226]

Treat Trance as a flavour ability that is unrelated to the mechanical long rest.

[@Nystagmium]

@@christopherrocco56 Perfect guess. And, yeah, i think that's how I will handle it.

[@Nystagmium]

@@revshad4226 ok... that's a good idea, too.

[@revshad4226]

@@Nystagmium it was originally intended as a ribbon ability that didn't affect the length of rests anyway.

[@Comicsluvr]

We tried to use the Sanity stat but we averaged Int, Wis, and Cha to get the base stat. This meant that many Fighters and Barbarians might be a bit brittle and any Resistance or Immunity to Fear was really helpful. The wiser or more learned members like Clerics, Warlocks, and Wizards were a bit heartier Sanity-wise because they already had a hint of what might lie beyond.

[@ivodijkman137]

Rule #5 doesn't seem fun to me. I would rather just make ajustments to HP and damage of low-level monsters. Seeing how characters become more powerful is always fun, cus I can then add my rediculous monster concepts like a Lich-Artificer combining an Acient Dragon with a Purple Worm with magic and technology 😈

[@ShowThisToYourFamily]

Yeah, I don't understand it at all. So they get ability score increases every 5000 experience? I may have misunderstood the rule, but how is that any different? And if they're stuck at sixth level with the same stats, how are they supposed to do anything against a big bad? Like a lich against 5 level 6 characters? I don't get it.

[@ivodijkman137]

@@ShowThisToYourFamily You are correct when stating that a Lich against level 6 characters is a joke; ASI can then only get you to 20 Constitution, which at 6th level gives you 30 hp. The you take the Tough feat, which gives you another 12 hp. Then, you are extremely lucky and be a Barrbarian with a max-rolled of 72 hp. All together; 114 hp. Seems great, right? Lets test it out: You start combat. The Lich rolls a 13 Initiative, and you a 20! You rush to the Lich, who has not prepared any traps or defences and is wide open. You attack twice with a Great Sword while Raging, and crit twice! You deal two times max damage! 24+24+5+5+2+2 (weapon+weapon+strength+strength+rage+rage) for a total of 62 damage! That brings the Lich to 73 hp, just above half. Then the Lich can use its Distupt Life Legendary Action to deal 6d6 Necrotic damage, which easily deals 14+ damage if you fail the save (DC 18, so with a max bonus of +8 for you this is a 50/50). On its turn, it casts Power Word: Kill. You die. End of that character. Like, I loved the first rule for dropping to 0 at least, but that is overkill.

[@jondubois5347]

@@ivodijkman137 They actually elaborate on this point in a somewhat side point. They say that the evil lich or dragon is and always will be because the characters cannot realistically challenge them without a lot of allies. A good example of this is Game of Thrones. It takes an entire army to take down a single dragon, and a whole kingdom to stop the undead army. In a high level DnD world, a single party of 4 level 15 characters could handle those threats by themselves. Its a lot less gritty and realistic to have 3 or 4 people be capable of standing up to a massive ancient dragon that has besieged a kingdom for generations. If the goal of your table is to have the players directly stand up against a big bad like a lich or ancient dragon alone, then don't use the level 6 cap. You could instead cap it at level 10, which makes the fights a lot more challenging but still possible.

[@ShowThisToYourFamily]

@@jondubois5347 So at level 6 the campaign comes to an ass grinding halt, in my opinion. part of the fun of D&D is to see what cool crazy stuff your character is capable of at higher levels.besides, it doesn't even take that long to reach level six. Your campaign Will last maybe 40 hours, and that's it. Maybe longer if you spent a lot of time trying to recruit allies and such. Even when you get to fight the big bad and you have an army behind you, you're not going to feel that much stronger than some of the strongest people in the army. I don't know, this takes a lot of the wind out of my sails as far as D&D is concerned.

[@vinx.9099]

a better option in my opinion would be to simply up the scales. fighting bigger monsters, or large amount of monsters. have a lich lay siege to a city with an undead army. what are 6 lv 30 hero's going to do against 250 zombies that keep replenishing? their skills might allow them to beat their way out and take out the problem at the source while having to rush before the city starves. but they can't beat an army in straight combat.

[@Tusslefoot]

I run a dark feudal campaign where if you don't get out of the road the angry knight will ride you down (along with his/her troop) and is very strong class based i.e. nobles, freemen, yeoman, peasants etc. The public use of magic can be a crime (like fireballing a tavern because you got chucked out) and magic items etc are rare. No magic item shop in every town. Also, I have discussed with my group (of two years now) that I scale monsters. E.g. basic skeleton upgrades to elite skeleton with more hps, AC or damage/attacks. Mobs can get additional abilities or their claws now inflict poison or diseases. Most of its pretty easy and the DMG gives some easy to use guidance there pg 274. On another note I am really enjoying watching your shows. :-)

[@ninthlevelcantrip799]

Give me more of your thoughts on Black Company! Love that book series. I see you are men of culture.

[@mordirit8727]

My go at the second rule (been quite fun actually) is that players can have as many 8 hours Long Rests as their CON modifier; after that, a week's Long Rest is required (we call it "True Rest") to gain that buffer again; usually the ones playing more resource heavy classes (frontliners with their HP and casters wit their slots) usually invest a lot in CON, be it either for HP or for better Concentration Checks, so it balances itself out nicely because the explorers (rangers and rogues) are that much more invested in doing good sneaky work, since they know that if they botch their part of the work the whole party will have to run back to town after just 2 nights instead of 4.

[@gorilaazul2434]

About rule 5, if you (the DM) feel like the campaign is moving into a level tier that you or the players aren't having fun with, it would be better to just wrap up said campaign and start a new one at level 1, rather than dragging it on and taking away the feeling of progress from the game. If higher levels are complicated for you, just don't play at those levels.

[@krazeiskwirl]

A resting rule I've seen that bridged the gap between Standard and Gritty was the Extended Rest. Short Rests (1 hour) stay the same. Long Rests (8 hours) do not restore HP or reduce Exhaustion, but do restore half your Hit Dice and half your Spell Slots (the post suggested using the Spell Points variant rule). Extended Rests (1 week) restore all HP, Hit Dice, and Spell Slots/Points, reduce Exhaustion, and give the party time for downtime activities, but had to be taken somewhere safe and comfortable. Short Rests could only be taken once per Long Rest, and Long Rests could only be taken a number of times equal to your level before having to take an Extended Rest.

[@geirpg]

For grittier games, I would play another roleplaying game altogether. Kult, Call of Cthulhu and Vampire spring to mind.

[@Xenibalt]

nope

[@Midrealm_DM]

With the level 6 cap option: for ritual casting higher level spells, one idea is to require multiple casters. To cast a level 4 ritual spell requires at least 2 casters or level 6, a level 5 ritual spell requires 3 casters of level 6, etc. Each caster must have ritual casting ability, be of the same caster type, and the spells may have subclass restrictions, such as requiring clerics of both life and nature domain for powerful healing. Or each wizard caster must be of the same arcane tradition to cast a spell of that school. (Clerics should probably be of the same, or allied religions) This could make for interesting roleplaying as chaarcter seek out NPCs who can assisit in casting rituals.

[@jlajr1974]

100k subbers..Bout time you dudes got famous!