Fixing Phase Issues on Bass with MAutoAlign

[@jadedsean]

The trick you mentioned at the regarding high passing and low passing, would this not create more phase issues? Maybe depends on how steep the filters are but not so with linear phase selected on an eq, right?

[@renedufry]

in case of using Auto Align on the example where you high-pass the amp and low-pass the DI, would you insert an instance of Auto Align before or after EQ?

[@GreenLightSound]

Good question - I usually auto align as part of my mix prep, so typically before the EQ. I'm not sure if switching the order would yield different results.

[@renedufry]

thanks for the reply and I'll experiment!

[@giorgiosale639]

@@GreenLightSound But eqing after Auto Align, don't you introduce phase problems again between the already aligned tracks? Maybe would be wiser to make all the eqs and after align the equalized tracks. What do you think?

[@GreenLightSound]

@@giorgiosale639 Not really, at least in my experience. If you EQ before alignment, you would be EQ'ing a signal with comb filtering and low end cancellation, so your EQ moves most likely would no longer be valid post alignment. For example, you might boost the low end due to the comb filtering, and after alignment have a low end that is completely out of control. If you're concerned about the phase issues that an EQ might introduce, use a linear phase EQ, though I don't think it's necessary.

[@giorgiosale639]

@@GreenLightSound You're absolutely right. Maybe my problem, due to CPU power issue, is that I have to eq every single track of the drum (for example) and freeze it, because I can't freeze groups . So eqing so I introduce a lot of phase changes. That's why I thought about putting Auto Align after all this stuff

[@slurpbeats]

awesome intro to this plugin, thanks! how does it perform with stereo material and would you place it all over your project tracks? would you put it last instance of the chain so all fx align?

[@GreenLightSound]

You would only need to use it when you have a single source with multiple mics on it. I usually use it first in the chain.

[@slurpbeats]

@@GreenLightSound oh, why not use it to make the bass align to the drum kit etc? i've seen people using Auto Align to align for example double tracked distorted guitar tracks too and i think Melda mentions that the spectral phase compensation is designed to help with phase changes that might come after EQ for instance

[@GreenLightSound]

When you do it for different tracks there's not really anything to align since the waveforms are not the same. Even if you perfectly line up the first transient, it won't match after that, but that's OK since it's not the same source. For different sources, a phase rotator is a better option. I don't like the spectral phase compensation in MAutoAlign. I always end up with strange artifacts that sound like high-pitched squeaks.

[@slurpbeats]

@@GreenLightSound thank you so much for your insight & feedback! i got it since it was on sale and saw some people having good results with it - i will test it critically!! ✌️✌️

[@pooyasajjadi2459]

Thanks for your review. Just a question, Is your DAW Reaper? I tried to make it look like this video but i couldn't, is there any way you could upload your theme somewhere for us? specially the fact that you can see VST thumbnails.

[@GreenLightSound]

I use Presonus Studio One 4. I've used Reaper before and know how customizable it is, but I'm not sure if you can make it look like Studio One.

[@gb4643]

whenever I see a daw I dont recognise I always assume its reaper ;D

[@SouthYarraMan]

Hi Joe, great stuff. How about how this can be used by producers who work only with samples/MIDI instuments over a whole arrangement. Not only does phase incoherence result in less focus and power, file misalignment can probably contribiute to the perception of a muddy mix and frequency masking.

[@GreenLightSound]

A phase rotator might be better for that situation. Auto align plugins are best for multiple copies of the same source.

[@MattMcHeck]

I am wondering: Did you check if this delay and flipping the phase were actually right? I don't argue with the sonic result you got, I'm just wondering how come the plugin "believed" the mic to be placed 1.6m / 5.3ft away from the speaker, which is of course total nonsense ;)

[@GreenLightSound]

I usually do check by bypassing the plugin and the phase inversion to hear the results. I never just trust the plugin, as sometimes the processing does not improve the signal. The distances indicated are just numbers created by multiplying the delay in ms with the approximate speed of sound per ms.

[@MattMcHeck]

Maybe that was a misunderstanding ;) I meant, did you try and move the track manually by 228 samples and flip the phase? Yes, at 48kHz you get exactly that distance. But given that the only difference in timing could come from sound travelling through the room, the mic would have been placed at this distance. So I believe that the plugin did not align the two signals "physically correct" (though sonically fine, as I mentioned). Also, from what I was able to see in the video, it seemed that the signal wouldn't need to be flipped. I would have expected it to be moved one half-period (sorry if this is wrong, english is a foreign language to me), which may be around 60 to 80 samples in my experience... It seems that this is a problem with all kinds of these plugins. At least, that's what I experienced, trying Mautoalign on different sources and whatching different videos. For example, it flipped the phase on an already flipped Snare Bottom track. Or it moved a kickdrum by 4 samples while moving the snaredrum by 80, although the latter obviously is much closer to the overhead mic(s). Do you have similar experiences with auto align plugins?

[@GreenLightSound]

Ah, I understand now. No, I didn't check by manually moving the track. If I were to do so, I might as well just align manually anyway. My take on the auto-align plugins is that they are a compromise between an ideal, manually time adjusted and phase corrected process (which is time consuming, especially when working with drums) and doing nothing at all. I just have to decide how much comb filtering I can tolerate, and this usually gets an acceptable result.

[@mitch150]

Been having weird phase issues with synth pads and vocals recently. Can this correct phase issues with single audio tracks? Like if I solo a synth pad, and that alone is having some phase issues, would this do the trick? or only with groups of different instruments?

[@GreenLightSound]

It can't work with single audio tracks, but if you have a stereo synth you could split the stereo file up into two mono files, one for the left channel and one for the right, and align those.

[@hertzcules]

So when we layer for example synth bases, leads and pad sounds with other stuff that needs some low end all this phasing goes on and is robbing the sound and we can't even hear it I guess hi pass filter would mask a lot of that problem for the low end info but it's still there, is this the best way to avoid it? also when the kick muddies up with the bass at certain notes how can we tell if it's normal or if it's actually phasing? I mean phase is pretty obvious to me sometime but what if it's subtle like just as the kick hits and it's not too obvious? and what about the higher frequencies when there is a lot going on in a track and phase is not obvious what would be the best way to tackle this before it happens during production?

[@GreenLightSound]

Layered bass sounds that are different should not create huge phase problems in the low end. Aligning for phase has the most obvious benefit when you are working with the same track captured from multiple sources, like multiple mics on the same source or a mic and DI for bass. High passing might hide some phasing problems in the sub-bass frequencies, but you could never high pass enough to hide phasing issues without making your tracks sound really thin. A good plugin option of you're looking for maximum phase coherence between different tracks is a phase rotator, like Sound Radix's Pi. Kick and bass issues are almost never phase related. You can try to align the beginning of the waveforms so that the kick and bass instruments aren't "pushing" and "pulling" (positive vs negative waveform) the speaker at the same time, but since they're different instruments you won't be able to perfectly align them. What you are probably hearing is frequency masking, which can be fixed with some EQ moves or sidechain compression. Some plugin analyzers can show frequency collisions and potential masking (Izotope's Neutron 2, Melda Production's MMultiAnalyzer, FabFilter's Pro-Q 3). I also suggest you check out my video on sidechain compression for kick and bass. Higher frequencies suffer much less from phasing issues, but again a phase rotator could help. During production, just keep flipping the phase on multiple mic'd sources to make sure you're not getting phase cancellation. You can also use mic placement to minimize issues - check out some videos on how to mic guitar cabs, drums, etc. that show optimum mic placement to avoid phase cancellation. With virtual instruments, there's no need to worry about phase during production.

[@hertzcules]

​@@GreenLightSoundCool, I guess what I really wanted was a sure way to discern from phase or freq masking but as you say it's probably never phase, I had a look at those plugins there's a great article on izotope regarding freq masking but I've kind of learned to do this over the years with side chain and eq balancing until it's good enough, thanks for your insight appreciate it.

[@ordreancien]

Hello, thank you. Why you just did not flip the phase in studio one in the mixer view ?

[@GreenLightSound]

Studio One didn't have a per-channel polarity button yet in the version featured in this video. Plus, the tracks need to be time aligned as well as phase aligned.

[@ordreancien]

Green Light Sound thanks . So now in the current version, we can achieve the same result ?

[@GreenLightSound]

@@ordreancien You can flip the polarity, but still have to time align manually if you don't use an auto align plugin.

[@ordreancien]

Green Light Sound , Many Thanks for your replies

[@JaFoste_Studio]

Would this work on double tracked guitar, say if your playing isn't the tightest?

[@GreenLightSound]

Not really, since the difference would probably not be a fixed amount. Best bet in that case is still manual editing.

[@XiyuYang]

No it won’t. Just nail your takes, second to that is editing.

[@TerenceKearns]

Nice

[@donpiper5703]

starts at 4.20

[@myyt4382]

Hi, thanks for another nice video but please in the future - do not speak when comparing..especially for such fine differences. It is visible you pressed bypassed - but as you say it the ear is distracted enough to "lost" the track.. Thanks!