Fixing Sekiro's Terrible Tutorial

[@Sputnik34]

Thank you for watching! what did you think of Sekiro's tutorial? did my video give you a new perspective? let me know! Love your face, love your show - :')

[@nemo9864]

What do you mean the ogre isn't a parry boss??? Like, maybe it doesn't make it much easier, not like the Ashina Elite, but you can totally parry it. Saying it utilizes none of the mechanics is objectively false.

[@frestdjm]

When you "get good" at Sekiro you don't need anything but deflection to beat it. The game should laser focus you towards learning to deflect, I agree. It doesn't, because bosses like the Bull or Chained Ogre or Drunkards deliberately mess with you by presenting you with bosses who punish deflects with chip damage or just don't give a fuck about posture. Is there a deflection-adjacent lesson- yes. You can still parry a dropkick from a giant, you can parry a raging bull's charge, etc. But that's confused by constant perilous attacks and burn damage. I also think the money economy and skill-purchase economy are just plain dissonant in this game. If you don't buy Mikiri counter as a priority, the game is BAD. If you save up and purchase the skill to heal on deathblow, the game becomes SIGNIFICANTLY MORE TOLERABLE. Just give these to the player during the tutorials. Owl later punishes you for using stabs which is a fantastic gameplay moment. Why didn't Owl teach you this skill in Hirata? Why did it instead come from "grinding random enemies?" The grinding skill points aspect of the game is far worse than the souls grind imho. I also think Dragon Rot should have been removed entirely. It's a non factor, sure, but new players won't understand that. They will just see that they're dying a lot and the game is chastising them for dying a lot. From should have learned from dark souls 2 that negative reinforcement provokes extremely strong reactions in people and just chosen not to include it (or made it a story element that happens as set intervals disconnected from the player's performance).

[@jimjohnson6944]

Playing through Sekiro for the first time and beat Genichiro today, I really never thought I'd be able to get this far since I'm not that good at video games. But I definitely agree that something "clicked" when fighting Genichiro. Great video

[@Sputnik34]

Thanks so much :')

[@giovannibarel5536]

The accomplishment and satysfaction after beating genichiro was the best experience i've ever had in a game, especially because of how much i struggled to get to that point: Sekiro was the second action game i've ever played (After Horizon Dawn Zero that just released on PC), because i wanted to try a challenging game and this looked cool. It was also the first game i played with a controller. What happened was that i spent 2 HOURS with my friend trying to beat the first miniboss before tutorial Genichiro, the One that does one single move (it's also true that we were talking and i wasn't concentrated at all on the game and it was also the first time we used a controller). It was Summer so i focused on the game because i was very determined to finish it (even though i got slapped pretty hard by everyone) Then I started exploring ashina outskirts, beat the first general miniboss, got the bell charm from the old lady (and ignored it), got slapped by the chained ogre a lot (beat him after a long and stressfull hit and run session, cleared the 2nd general arena (i actually struggled a bit here), found the secret passage to the headless, got destryed, found an escape route to Senpou, rang the demon bell and forgot the debuff on for the entire game (i just laughed when i realised it after beating isshin), went to the hirata estate and i started suffering even more with the mob arena full of enemies, the lone shadow in the hidden pagoda (i gave up and grabbed the prosthetic and ran, since he one shotted me) and especially with jozou because of the mad amount of enemies put in there (this was the most frustrating section of the entire game, beacuse i suck at clearing mobs and i hate doing it). I got to lady butterfly and fought her following the instruction the game gave me (repeated dodge and hit) and cheesed her without realising (with the demon bell on and attack power 1 she had ton of health, so it didn't even feel wrong). After 2 long hours, i finally beat her and finished the memory, but I wasn't feeling accomplished, i was just glad it was over. After a couple of days off, i came back to the game and continued with gyobu (i beat him on the first try but it was reaally close, i was sweating), the encounter with Tengu, the blazing bullshit and after finally arriving to ashina castle, i was shocked by the amount of paths i could take. I started with the abandoned dungeon, ran away in fear after getting blasted by the shichimen warrior, tried to clear the ashina resevoir and beat the the seven spears (failing miserably), and finally going through the main path that led to the section inside (which i personally didn't find particularly challenging) and finally, after the brutal and fast deflection check i got to genichiro, which took me more than 4 hours to beat. It was difficult, but not painful, not unfair or particularly frustrating (the reveal of the 3rd phase made me a bit mad, i admit) and when i finally beat him i was so happy that i screamed loudly (it was early morning and i woke up my sister who almost killed me afterwards). Then i got addicted to it and finished the game within a few days, playing many hours each day and it was an amazing experience. Still my favourite game and i still play it (mostly with mods) even after 3 and a half years later.

[@SKysofRain]

I feel like one thing you missed (and who could blame you) is that it is basically the revival or spiritual successor to another From Soft classic "Tenchu". The "arena" fight areas you speak of, are to challenge your understanding that you are a shinobi, you don't go running into mobs gang busters style and beat he piss out of waves. You sneak your way in, not slow but rather swiftly reading a layout and enemy walk paths while using tools to draw them in so you can chain assassinate them. Your entire kit is designed for 1 on 1 engagements, creating unfair advantages for yourself and when pushed into a scenario you shouldn't be good at, have the means to lure out the winnable scenarios you need to execute an area. The game does a piss poor job of telling you any of this of course. I didn't struggle with the areas you did purely because I was thinking "damn this feels straight out of Tenchu Z" then looked up who made that and was like: "holy shit! No way, it was From Soft!" Stealth games being slow is often a very valid complaint. I feel that Tenchu and by extension Sekiro nail chain stealth executions wonderfully. When you create your own path of executions for an area it can feel like a wild blade dance that makes you feel so damn Badass for pulling off. Using the sounds of death from one guy to lure in the next one and tossing a suriken off to the side to distract the one unit that would see this next kill only to be setting him up for a back stab. Please if you haven't tried this it realized this, look up some Tenchu Z look out for what I'm describing here and attempt it in some areas in sekiro.

[@pablosuarez9211]

All the enemy sections taught me to use stealth and dwindle them down to one guy for combat, the bull is annoying but everything else seems like it didn’t land for just you personally

[@thegammelier]

Doing a second playthrough of Sekiro now, which is a lot easier this time around since I’ve spent the long hours to learn all the lessons it had to teach, so it’s a bit hard to come at this from a ‘first time player perspective’ but- I really, really enjoy how many different flavors of encounters the opening hours of Sekiro provides. I think your analysis is good, I think your suggestions of a rearrange tutorial section are sound, but I also consider Sekiro a truly *weird* game and feel a lot of that weirdness would be lost with a more focused opening section. The real tutorial is you NEVER know what’s gonna come next, so prepare for anything! Plus, I’d say spending all those long hours honing your skills, feeling like you’re gaining mastery, feelin’ a bad ass, only to get to Genichiro and realize he’s, like, the midpoint at best AND several levels above everything else you’ve yet to fight? It’s epic

[@beansfebreeze]

I thought the entire point of the chained ogre section was to teach you a few things 1. Explore explore explore. There's no reason *not* to look around for things 2. Not all enemies work the same way. Some can be breezed past with parries and others may incentivize the use of tools and items 3. Think about your situation. If you're given an item that says to take it to someone, then ahead of you are some guys that say the boss' weakness is something you don't have, and right next to them is the scary boss that can't be beaten with parries . . . well maybe consider that all those things are connected and that maybe giving the item to the guy will unlock the weapon you need for the boss Also if you're struggling with a mob then just, like, pick some off to run away and return the situation to neutral. And the silly horse man's fight placement makes sense because at that point in the story it would be ridiculous to believe the protag is suddenly ready to take on the guy that just cut their arm off when at that time they haven't really taken on anything too extreme. Killing someone as boastful and flashy as horse man should make a player feel like they've actually done something significant enough to warrant thinking they can handle round 2 with genichiro

[@Sputnik34]

That may be the intended decision but the whole argument of the video is primarily that the games tutorial does shit all wack out of order. I think what the ogre teaches you is fine but if that is the intended intention then I would say to put the ogre AFTER genichiro. After you feel confident with the games central mechanics. THEN you can be expected to wander around and search for stuff. Putting it where it is in the game is just awkward IMO

[@andrewfranges7807]

Yeah, I agree with most of what you said. I do think that making an almost essential item totally missable is them teaching you that you need to explore. That does force you into one of two groups, though. You either explore naturally and feel rewarded, or you get frustrated that they're forcing you on a path other than the one you're currently on. The raging bull was super annoying. Also, you can parry all of the ogre's regular attacks. I think that was them teaching you that you can parry almost anything. Great video, dude.

[@nemo9864]

I only have a few problems with Sekiro. 1) I beat most of the mini-bosses before even meeting Geni. Made the story wonky. 2) I really wish there weren't two phase bosses with separate bosses like Emma-Isshin and Geni-Isshin. 3) That one Snake Eyes arena was really bad, the abandoned dungeon one. Yeah, that one. 4) Certain grab attacks weren't fun. At all... 5) And, yes, while they are optional, having to repeat the gauntlets of strength just to die to the final boss because of a new instant kill move is not fun. I'm looking at you, Inner Isshin!! But really, those are my only annoyances.

[@giovannibarel5536]

the snake eyes in the poison swamp was really not fun

[@thesummerofmark]

22:14 that's exactly how I felt the first time I saw that red circle on the snake's eye

[@Akillian1]

I always did wonder why I could never get into Sekiro and quit at the bull my first time. I tried it again after going thru ER, DS1,3 and I beat it without much hassle through thorough exploration throughout. Exploring the nooks and crannies in these games is magnificent. It taught me to stealth and ensure it's 1on1 in combat as much as possible. That first area with the 1 giant idiot is meant for picking them off 1 at a time. The chained ogre is daunting but if you have no fire, it's a dark souls boss as you say - dodging is easier than parrying since you're not used to unguardable attacks yet, and very reliable. Sets you up for all the giant apes in the mid and late game. I'd disagree with genichiro being the first boss. Gyobu is objectively easier with a smaller moveset, no 3rd phase with a brand new mechanic, longer forgiving windows, less of a posture breaker. Maybe replace it with lady butterfly if you got rid of her summon gimmick. Genichiro can be hair pulling if you don't practice the quick parry miniboss before him. And it can be a marathon without upgrades found through exploring. Then, getting the 3rd phase gimmick lightning counter buttons and timing correctly if you don't look it up first seem hard af or unreliable at best. Imagine having to fight the first 2 phases over and over just to try and get the buttons down for lightning reversal again. Or have fun dodging it lmao. It's my favorite fight I replay the most, and probably many others' . Would be just somewhat downhill to the end of the game after him in my humble opinion. As most other bosses imo always have 1 or 2 annoying nuances - albeit amazing fights as a whole, but don't lure me back like genichiro's. First owl fight is fantastic apart from the toxic floor, or great fire demons charge unguardable attack where the solution is an unintuitive jump if I'm remembering based how the animation presents you to think it's a side dodge or whatnot. Etc It's mikiri counter lol sorry had to say it after the 4th time hearing it

[@Sputnik34]

I see DS2 isn't on your list. REMEDY THAT THIS INSTANT! lol thanks for watching! Sorry about the miriko counter 😂

[@BiglaSagna]

Wait, you have over 1,000 hours in Elsen Ring but you haven’t beat it yet? Im geniunely curious as to how that is possible

[@Sputnik34]

Did I say 1,000? I mean that sincerely. I have 102.5 hours on steam lmao

[@EinSilverRose]

I think the group of enemies after the Chained Ogre should have been the main first "boss" since the area gives you nearly EVERYTHING necessary to play stealthily to cut down the foes before taking on the mini boss. The only problem is that if you die you'd have to redo clearing out the enemies before safely taking on the mini boss. Which is also a problem the Chained Ogre has because those 2 or 3 dudes near him WILL join the fight. FromSoft really should have made the starting area far more robust in order to gradually teach everything the player needs. Like what if Sekiro started with the Shuriken, had to break into the estate to rescue Kuro all while stealthily taking out enemies and only after you rescue him do you get some ranged enemies for you to practice deflecting projectiles with a mini boss ready to teach you perilous attacks. Mikiri Counter should NOT have been an optional skill. It feels so natural to the game's combat flow that not having it from the start is baffling. Then at the end of the tutorial you face off against Genichiro but you also have access to one charge of your gourd so devs could mask the idea that player can win the fight so even if you win you feel as though you actually outmatched Genichiro before Sekiro is distracted by more than one thrown projectile because even Sekiro can lose his razor sharp concentration (oh hey this would teach the player that they should always be on guard regardless of the situation). Personally I don't think the Firecracker and Flame Vent should be a guaranteed to be found. They are definitely rewards for taking your time to explore areas and talking to NPCs. The spots for Gyoubu and Flaming Bull are fine. They really aren't that tough.

[@Treekyboi]

I went into Sekiro with the knowledge of Metal Gear Rising Revengence’s parry system and that somehow ended up making the beginning of Sekiro easier for me LOL. That and being a Tenchu fan helped (a bit) too. But i agree the start of Sekiro is pretty convoluted and unforgiving. Also the Ogre sucks 👹

[@najalala]

It took me 2 playthroughs until it clicked for me on the final boss. If there was one thing i could change about this game, it would be that spirit emblems recharge like estus.

[@MidnightMedium]

Enjoyed your last 3 vids a lot, man! Ngl, the troll messed me up so many times i bounced off what i was already intimidated by, having seen the ape and snake fights already. Oh one small thing: when do you humorous little audio inserts, theyre always realllly loud compares to the voiceover; just balance those down and maybe use a multiband compressor

[@Sputnik34]

If the VO audio jumps like that it's definitely intentional ^^ I hope my video convinced you to give it another shot!

[@WildPotatoIndustries]

35:57 I mean... I wouldn't say "no one"...

[@davidhamilton-kelly6262]

If your goal was to push me to play through the opening hours then I would like to say you succeeded so well done, being someone who has played every souls game it always bothered me I didn't gel with sekiro

[@Sputnik34]

The game is incredible. I hope you manage to get through the first section!

[@ryanmarci]

Bro didn’t even care to speak with the undead warrior lol that’s where you actually learn all the mechanics

[@blackmesa3777]

I've known this bad balancing in the difficulty level since my first Souls, Demon's Souls, where the beginning is too hard. If I ever get this game cheaper, I'll be better prepared thanks to you.

[@j1lly916]

I'm so happy that I finally got a chance to kick my feet up on the chair and enjoy another one of your vid essay. This one was especially entertaining because there is another KZbinr I am subscribed to who talked about this exact same topic but came up with a totally opposite conclusion (meaning he thought the tutorial was well-executed and helpful). The link to the said video is here (but I honestly think it won't be of much use for you cause its in Korean with no enligshsubtitles whatsoever lol. and yes, I am korean who just happens to be proficient in English as well ^^ still, I wanted to share the video at least with you due to how similar the topic but vastly different the take is): kzbin.info/www/bejne/povNkKisfseFlbc When I first saw the above video I was actually half-convinced that the tutorial delivered in Sekiro seemed to make sense but then when I saw yours I must say my views have taken a 180. I am the type who enjoys watching other streamer play the games rather than playing them myself and it always made me wonder why everyone seemed to have a quite polar opposite reaction (in terms of enjoyment) right up until the Genichiro fight. I think you got rid of this nagging question in the back of my mind. I usually view tutorials to be a non-fiction and the gameplay afterwards to be a fiction of some sorts. Hence, tutorials should be linear, straightforward and be a clear manual. The various branch off of the game (based on player's choice/prefereence) should take place only after this step-step path is done and over with. But Sekiro's tutorial is definitely missing the mark in a sense that the game "branched-off" way too early before all the core basics were covered. The order in which the mechanics were explained is admittedly all over the place as well... It is a pity because all the mechanics are so entertaining to watch and tryout. I know some people do not mind Sekiro's tutorials but I think the point is that a tutorial should act as a manual with clear step by step guidelines. Kind of like your video essays in that there is an order in which you must present your arguments or else they might not make much sense to the viewers. Anyways thanks again for some relaxing vid that I could enjoy on my Friday^^

[@Sputnik34]

Thank you so much! :')

[@samthemessiah9330]

6:25 have you tried Sifu :)

[@TheLastNephilim]

For me after being dejected about what your talking about after I beat genichiro I flew through the rest of the game but then I GOT THE SHURA ENDING BY ACCIDENT missed 2/3s of the game. Ended up playing the entire thing again on new game plus and finally stopped after not being able to defeat new game plus isshin it’s sad but after all that work I got got lol

[@TheSandkastenverbot]

100% agreed. Sekiro has the worst "tutorial area" of all the Soulsborne games by a long shot. Most enemies are too easy to teach you anything while some are just plain annoying and so weird that I've never figured out how to handle them without taking damage (nightjar, assassins, spear adepts). The monks and interior ministry staff are the only ones that teach you to fight IMO.

[@Deadforge]

I live this breakdown of the game and honestly where it genuinely fails at teaching the player in an adequate manner. It constantly throws different styles of different fights at you with very little in common with the next if at all. I took out the general like I was Naruto amd used firecrackers on his horse which I stumbled upon the guy you buy them from and just assume they could be used on the horse. Overall I enjoy the game and need to finish it but it is wildly inconsistent with its enemy design especially early on.

[@grass324]

Sekiro's definitely a masterpiece along side Bloodborne and Ds2 is the worst piece of abomination of all entries

[@Sputnik34]

@@grass324 ds2 is my favorite souls game :'(

[@litt420]

Ps1 armored core is the real souls game

[@Poagoo]

Idk man, it’s just not for me.

[@Sputnik34]

Tragic :'(

[@austin0_bandit05]

Hello from reddit!

[@thesummerofmark]

great video my man

[@Sputnik34]

thanks so much :')

[@ThePrimordialChronicles]

(Thinks of something nice to say while trying to stop himself from saying “fuck this motherfucking game”) Umm… Ugh… …The arm is pretty cool?

[@lanceuppercut2204]

I doubt I would ever click with Sekiro, developers almost universally make the timing window on parry mechanics so small it's not fun for me I would be surprised if this game is any different but you do at least make it sound more interesting than other people have before.

[@Sputnik34]

The parry window on this is surprisingly forgiving! You'd be surprised :')

[@deathbyleisure]

Try Wo Long my guy!

[@Sputnik34]

I'd like to but I heard it runs like ass on PC :'(

[@deathbyleisure]

@@Sputnik34 So my recomendation would be to get the Xbox Game Pass ultimate (can sometimes find a £1 voucher online, otherwise would probably cost you just over 20) and then play it via Xbox Cloud Beta with a controller connected via bluetooth/usb. Thats what im doing - my internet isnt the fastest but theres no lag. Its running off a Xbox Series X too so you can put it on performance mode and have no issues. Thats what ive been doing - at first for convenience, and now for it having better performance than one my older Xbox One X!

[@Rootsdrew]

just like dark souls 2

[@Grm0xlr2xD]

Huh, didn't knew that the genichiro fight was so early lmao. I explored other places and never got around to it. For context, I was around the zone of the amored warrior lol. Will re-try it one of these days Also, just for context, I've beaten all the other souls that are available on pc, but I never got "used" to sekiro tbh

[@mr.reggit4060]

I tried picking up the game again and i beat the boss i was struggling on but i just don't get the same feeling as i do with the other souls likes. The best way i can describe it is by saying that it doesn't feel like "I" beat it. It feels more like i just pressed the right buttons when the game told me to.

[@Sputnik34]

I guess I understand what you're saying but the process of learning how and when to hit those buttons is an awesome experience

[@mr.reggit4060]

@@Sputnik34 Thanks for responding. The boss i was stuck on was actually the mini boss next to Ashin reservoir. And I have had that feeling before when I faced Gael on ng+7. It took me probably around 5 hours to figure him out and I was ecstatic when I got done. I think it's something wrong with me because I've had this problem before with the Witcher games. Everyone was saying it was a great game but I never was able engage with it because the game gave me a character instead of letting me make one. I can see how Sekiro is a good game and I would give it an 8/10. I could say more but I'll leave it at that and thanks for the reply.

[@Sputnik34]

@@mr.reggit4060 thanks for watching! i try to respond to as many comments as i can! :') as long as they aren't being dick heads haha

[@Leee275]

"More like I just pressed the right buttons when the game told me to." The game makes it clear that it is heavily focused on reaction times. When should you attack, when should you parry, when should you use a prosthetic tool, when should you use a combat art and so on. You learning when to use the stuff available at the best times should have given you the feeling you wanted, these aren't qtes.

[@castilejo]

My man, i have been watching your videos after the Lies Of Pi video, and it's criminal that this video has less than 100k views. If I were you, I would republish it! this video deserve more views.

[@matthewnetterville6936]

You gotta give fromaoft a break, this was the first souls type game with a tutorial lol

[@Sputnik34]

They should know their games well enough then to make a good tutotial

[@arkham666]

Yooooooooooooooo lol lol

[@Sputnik34]

ooooooooooy

[@haydenlaughlin-nb8qz]

Lol just get good

[@Sputnik34]

Damn. U rite

[@haydenlaughlin-nb8qz]

@@Sputnik34 nah just kidding but I do feel a little different about the tutorial I honestly think it was good because it made it a challenge for your first one your a worn out shinobi that just got his will to live back maybe just hours before you get to the delapiratid temple he rusty as heck and the first boss u go agains after thë being boss is a samurai so it regular sword to sword combat like most enemies and then the other enemies teach you that there is big wild souls like enemies that will mess up your day but u learn that they can be taken Down quite easily if u just lean the bread and butter to kill them take a few deaths or something to learn the move set but then once u have it there done for

[@haydenlaughlin-nb8qz]

@@Sputnik34 and once u finish your first play through you really understand how fast you can actually get to genchrio and how short the beginning area is that’s why it’s diverse so you actually take the time to learn and understand the game and play it fully and it also forces plays to try and find new areas when the can’t kill bosses to try and kill other ones or find candys or learn new combat arts in order to to kill those boss so they actually play thure it all

[@gammav9779]

'It just not for me' cuz no character customization. Hopefully sekiro 2 protagonist is fully customization. And more Genichiro-like boss pls

[@thephoenix4093]

@@saladfrog technically, a shinobu should care that he wears stealthy clothes that fit the weather, that said. the customization was for the player to change the protagonist to look in a more unique way and not just story wise.