Fixing the Oil Flow Problem on the Cincinnati Horizontal Milling Machine

With age, flow becomes a major problem. Sometimes it's blockage, or worn out parts, or something else. LOL
In this case, the Cincinnati 2ML Horizontal Milling Machine was badly clogged, everywhere. Follow along as I dive into this problem, and find more nastiness than I ever imagined.
After all of this work, I now have the flow of a young machine.
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work.
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[@wmweekendwarrior1166]

Can’t stand watching TV but I can sit here and watch a guy clean sludge and find it entertaining. Go figure.

[@noblsht]

I stop watching television 20 years ago the commercials are obnoxiously pathetic

[@Rusty-Metal]

Cause tv is mindless Kardashian idiots. At least this is real. I always think the same thing you do!

[@Rubbernecker]

Same

[@dutchgray86]

Modern TV is mostly rubbish though.

[@a-k-jun-1]

Same here, don't even own a TV anymore but will go out of my way to watch metal working videos on my phone.

[@Crusher9mil]

Damn, that machine got a prostrate exam, a colonoscopy and an enima in one visit. I wouldn't be surprised if you find a baby mill in your shop in the near future.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

That would be ok by me. Lol

[@user-ff3on8um2y]

I had to do similar messy jobs with oil and coolant getting all over the place. It was a pleasure to watch someone else go through it while I sipped coffee in my bathrobe at the kitchen table.

[@LittleAussieRockets]

I am super impressed with that stand you made. I'll have to do something similar with my machine

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It has helped immensely

[@chuckmayerchak3071]

Love sll your videos!!!! Hit up an old junk yard and grab a couple of speedometer cables, remove the core cut in lengths and put it in your cordless drill. Makes a great snake for small passages!

[@ForfeMac]

I like to use pump diesel or pump kerosene to flush out sludgy gearboxes. Mineral spirits are an awesome degreaser but I've found that it doesn't break up and suspend oily sludge as well as diesel or kerosene does. It kinda separates into gobs of goop and plugs passages just like you had here.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

That's exactly what happened. I'll know for next time.

[@erikslagter3231]

the sound that oil pump made, was so satisfying!

[@user-of9rl4yh4f]

Glad to see you persist. My boss always said "Don't look for an exotic solution to a simple problem" In your case no special adapters or extra pumps. Nice troubleshooting. Feels good to solve a problem.

[@chief8388]

One of those long lint brushes for dryers would be a good tool for raking out the sump... Bend it to suite the need.

[@buckwheat7673]

Thank you for this video. I just bought a cincinnati 2p horizontal mill and the thing is filthy inside and out. Spent 3 days reaching in there with papee towels. Still couldn't get enough access without pulling the motor out. There was a huge amount of gunk and chips. Thanks to this video I won't be broken hearted. I just know the return passages are clogged and now I know where they are. You just saved me so much headache and heartache. There is hope after all. Thank you Thank you Thank you!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Glad the video will help you out. Took me a while to figure out where the passage was, not much info in the books.

[@robertquast9684]

3 boxes of towels a bag of floor dry and a mess later it’s fixed. It’s amazing how they engineered those oil passages into the castings of that machine

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Some great designs, but some not so good also.

[@andrewdalgarno5322]

Glad to hear you got your flow problems figured out, Josh. As your equipment ages, what was once a nice steady flow can definitely turn into spurts. Always a good sign that some maintenance is needed. A sign of the times, I guess..... Andrew 🤣

[@TopperMachineLLC]

If only a good proctology exam fixed all of our flow problems. Lol.

[@bcbloc02]

My #4 cincinnati returns down to the base via the cover around the elevation screw and I took that thing apart once and it was super nasty inside.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

This one does also, I have cleaned it a few times.

[@gofastwclass]

Nice fix Josh. I wondered how you were going to end there, I'm glad you stuck with it. My MK lathe headstock had similar sludge in the bottom. I don't think the company I purchased it from ever changed the oil and the machine is from the 1970's. I had to take a similar process to keep the lathe running.

[@edsmachine93]

Josh I was happy when you put the mineral spirits in and the coolant line opened up to a full stream. That was a big win as far as I'm concerned. I think that you could keep the mineral spirits for future use. I love that machine base. Very nice. Have a great weekend.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I saved it, it will get used later.

[@edswider9309]

Josh you are good I didn’t know about the paint thinner thumbs up

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Mineral spirits is one of the safest solvents I could have used. There are far more with serious VOCs I could have used, but would probably have wound up in the hospital.

[@loydsa]

Watching this reminds me why I became an Engineer rather than a Proctologist! Seriously Steve, a really useful video. Best regards Sarah

[@TgWags69]

On your brake cleaner. You can create a very useful extension. Get a thermocouple from a furnace or stove...preferably an old one. Cut the ends off with a zip disc. One end just cut it straight off. On the other end go carefully just going around the outside of the copper being careful not to cut the wire inside. Once you have it cut through you can pull the wire out leaving a very nice peice of copper tubing. Deburr the ends and now you can squeeze in a peice of the red plastic tubing that fits the brake cleaner/wd40/wasp killer can nozzles. It really helps getting it down into places like your drain passages or killing bees up in a wall etc. Carefully ben it in any shape you need. Just keep it hanging by your tool box. Obviously it will be a heavier then the peice of red tubing going into the nozzle can handle so you have to hold it with two hands to keep it connected. 😉👍

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Great suggestion

[@haroldchoate7497]

Josh, It’s good to know a person who practices what they preach. Coming back to finish off the job is testimony to your character. I’m impressed. I enjoy the content on your channel very much. It’s always interesting to see what new topic you are presenting. Merry Christmas and God bless you.

[@edswider9309]

Josh you are slick auto transmission fluid for cooling oil

[@thinking-monkey]

I don't know if there's any feeling like the one you get when after you've had a problem, but the machine or device generally works 'good enough' so you put up with it, yet knowing (and dreading) that it has to be fixed sooner or later and you finally tackle it and get it fixed! It's a great feeling, for sure.

[@alanm3438]

I am glad that you did not give up. Sort of funny the book did not help you. A little more thinking and sure enough you fixed the problem. I am so sorry that I did not watch you first thing this morning but we have been cleaning Mom's house so that is can be sold. It just does not feel the same without her. It is always good to see you. I am sure that you gave the machine some new life with all the love you gave it today. Good job on the video and good job on the mission.

[@CSWeldFab]

The best part of topping off a differential, or manual transmission, is the sound of that hand pump.

[@josephbrannum5746]

If you take a piece of 1/4 or 3/8 steel cable , wrap a tie wire up from end a inch or two to keep it from unwrapping past that point. put the other end in a drill and you have a powered snake. Also if you had a valve setup in the clean out plate it would make it easier to change the cutting oil. You have a great shop setup, I look forward to your posts.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

The cable idea is good. I'll remember that. No real need for a valve back there. Just pump most of the oil out. The biggest problem with changing oil on this mill was the height before I lifted it. That cover was on the floor.

[@johnplump3760]

Sometimes the best way to clean something is to do exactly what you did. Patience is the best solution. Cleaning is not the easiest. You did a great job!!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thanks

[@davidporter2374]

Josh an old school speedometer cable works well for a snake to run wires thru the cab of vehicles and may work for this application.

[@bostedtap8399]

Great idea💡

[@hersch_tool]

Grody to the max! But you got it sorted right out. Such a cool old machine. Fuzzy pipe cleaners are good for breaking gunk out of those small passages. Thanks for the vid!

[@ronwilken5219]

Josh, someone mentioned some compressed air. That and a flexible hose would help but to get the crap out I'd suggest a wet/dry shop vac and a high detergent soap and water solution so you're not vacuuming an explosive mess into the shopvac. Also drill and tap that rear cover to make it easier to drain before removal for clean-out. Some form of screen on the table drain would prevent a pile of the garbage even getting into the galleries, before the basket and the pump. Thanks for the video and heads up.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Compressed air is a no go. Makes more problems by forcing the crap into places. I don't use shop vac for anything other than sawdust and light dirt. They just don't work well enough. I considered a drain plug in the cover, but it works well enough to pump out as much as possible before opening it. Biggest problem has been that it was on the floor and inaccessible. There are several screens, I showed some of them in the video. But they don't catch everything.

[@arthurjennings5202]

Maintenance. Maintenance. Maintenance. Cincinnati machines were built tough. How long has this machine been producing while it was hurting. They built them tough back in the day.

[@michelecrown2426]

I'm glad you stuck with it and figured it out. That machine is probably breathing a sigh of relief :)

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I hope so!

[@collingrawien6621]

Definitely going to save this one for the arsenal when people try to argue that "they just dont make things easy to maintain like they used to anymore" lol what a pain in the ass

[@rf2078]

Dang...that felt so good to have that cleaned out and I don't even own the machine.

[@RobertRidgley]

Good work. Amazon has lots of different sizes and lengths of bendable nylon bottle brushes that would be perfect. They even have assorted sizes in packs. Another thing to keep around is some flexible heavy gage aluminum wire. Sometimes it’s sold as fence wire.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I'll look into it. I didn't have a few days to wait for supplies this time, but can get some coming for next time.

[@MyMiniHomeWorkshop]

All that gunk took me back to my childhood, I used to go to work with my Motor Mechanic father in the school holidays and I got all the dirty jobs, one common one was scraping off all of the built-up grease and dirt on fully greaseable front ends, damn I hated doing that, it was so messy. Great outcome in the end for your perseverance 👍

[@MrMojolinux]

I admire your persistence. Sometimes it takes that nagging feeling of "what else can I do", that makes you finally succeed in finding and fixing the issue at hand. I think you will only see improvement from here on out. Great feeling and Great work Josh!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you.

[@user-vn7ib6rn8r]

just thinking in the interests of economy and your extended supply lines and if you are not likely to be changing out the atf for a while you could store the thinners and let the particulates settle and reuse about 3/4 of the thinners rather than ditching the lot.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

That's the plan.

[@petegraham1458]

If you put that solvent in a metal 5 gal clean pail you will be surprised in a month it can be decanted and reused it won’t be water clean but good enough for cleaning parts. Good fix cleaning drain system , I think the ATF will do a good job as both a cutting coolant and a cleaner it’s going to be interesting to see if it’s a smoker though?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It smoked bad enough with the cutting oil. But that could be from a lack of flow.

[@emilgabor88]

Glad you made it write the first time . 👍

[@allenbrown7820]

Great job! Should be good for another 50 years! Keep up the good work and Be Safe.

[@roberthooper2242]

Old speedometer cable, if you can find sone , chucked in an electric drill is usefell to clean out oil passages full of crud.

[@brian_2040]

You are like me with the oil not draining, stuff like that bothers me when information is not available, so you just tear into it and find the issue. I would have done the exact same thing. It may be a "small" issue to some, but after resolving the issue, you feel like you conquered the world. Good job sir.

[@derekcomer4858]

This was brilliant, I love unblocking stuff, so satisfying if a little messy. Well done on persevering 👍

[@brianlittle3452]

Another good video. A set of cheap tube brushes might help the next time you need to clean the machine out. HF has a cheap set for about $7 that might have been useful for this machine clean out. The set is not the finest in the world but one does not cry if a brush is ruined when using it. Some folks have cut off the loop on the end of the brush and put the twisted wire end in a drill when cleaning out passages. Another useful tool is an old wire close hanger. The wire is rather stiff so useful when cleaning out passages.

[@user-rk1bf4eh2p]

Maintenance is a good thing

[@hmw-ms3tx]

I had this same problem with my horizontal boring mill. The table has some internal passages to conduct the coolant back onto the bed and they were plugged solid. The stuff was like grout. Dug it out and then flushed it out and then blew it out with compressed air. It was a total tear down of the machine so I was able to blow stuff out without worrying about forcing it into places it shouldn't go. I have the exact opposite problem you do with my horizontal mill. Mine is too high. It's tall and I'm short. I need to make a stand for me. Ken

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I know of a maintenance shop with a raised platform around the mill. Their machinist is like 5 foot tall.

[@theessexhunter1305]

Got caught out a couple of times as an apprentice with the coolant nozzle pointing towards me and the pump switch on but main power off...so got a good soaking but got my own back. Grease the handles was one of them lol good fix as we say If you are not making a mess you are not making anything lol

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I've done that too. Shot in the back or face. Had it hit the ceiling and rain down. What a mess.

[@edcallahan6952]

Thanks for sharing this video with us I enjoy your content.I have a Kearney trecker 2 h similar to size of your Cincinnati I had it all apart the passages are so complex and the cored passages everywhere.mine is also a universal table so even more circular passages when the table is angled, but i cleaned everything and cut the gear pump it was a little too loose to pump good but now works great I use cutting oil also in the sump thanks again Josh have a merry Christmas ed

[@kristyskirt9015]

Great maintenance Mr. Topper

[@peltona]

Way to stick with it and figure it out. Get it done right the first time is great advice.

[@Freetheworldnow]

Using ATF is a verry smoky proposition. It will create quite a cloud of white smoke. The flash point of ATF is just too low for your heavy cuts in the woks... On the other hand it will definitively help the clean out process of the passage ways. As usual just another great video production. Thanks for sharing. ❤❤❤

[@TopperMachineLLC]

We will see. I know of a couple shops who run ATF exclusively with no problem.

[@MrFHLH]

Job well done congratulations.

[@richzilla2.0]

Well done! That's a deep cleaning process you went through there, but it appears to have been very necessary.👍

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Absolutely.

[@bostedtap8399]

Great forward thinking on machine riser fabrication 👍. Good for another 20 years. Thanks for sharing

[@carlkulyk366]

Your cross feed screw looks pretty good.

[@ninomaiorano6697]

Magnets are the answer to getting the chunks out

[@seldendaniel8819]

Excellent, I swear I'll never take a short cut again...

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Me either. Lol. Glad it annoyed me enough to dig deeper.

[@bigwrenchlewis2529]

Josh when your finished cleaning get yourself a magnet and let it sit and collect material. Works in the automotive industry and prevents your pump from picking up foreign material.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

The problem was never chips getting to the pump, but just sludge plugging up the suction point.

[@davidtaylor6124]

I would not have thought to look for an oil gallery in that casting! Very interesting.

[@michelgodin5563]

very good

[@T-rock_chr0n1c]

Seems like a great job for the shop greenhorn lo

[@GardenTractorBoy]

The access and inside looks like our Cincinnati. In ours it had turned into a solid which in some ways was easier to remove. The drain system is different on our mill but I do wonder if in the past someone has made up an adapter, we will have to check it out

[@78jog89]

Sorry, but made my day to see the spill. Thanks for the awesome video.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

That was really dirty. Maybe you need a filter of some kind. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

There is no good way to filter it. Just change it more often. Now having it off the floor, it will be easier to change.

[@kawazukisoddbits2717]

May I suggest using some welding filler rods held in a cordless drill or even long zip ties if you don't want too much scouring action!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Good idea

[@nortiousmaximus940]

another great video, l'm glad you went by your mantra. is the young bloke still working for you, l have not heard you mention him in a while.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

He is still here. Can't really film him due to his age. But he is working on some great stuff.

[@kentuckytrapper780]

Great video Josh, had to take my k&t mill outside and power spray the bottom out than run off road feul through it for a few days, done a excellent job..

[@Rickimusic]

Air or a vacuum. maybe tap that entry so pressure can be forced down the pathway for the oil?

[@paradiselost9946]

i stalled one of these :) someone told me to disengage the autofeed and go by hand the last few mm cutting a 5/8"x3/4" slot, climb milling. i raised my eyebrows in objection... "just do it!" cost them a cutter :) 15K....

[@jasongreene303]

Gotta love it when a plan comes together!! I am glad it bugged you enough to go digging for the draining issue, bc it would have bugged the shit outta me!!! lol

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Oh, it was really bothering me. I managed to get it all back together 10 minutes before the next batch of parts came in that were to be done on that mill.

[@montymc450]

That was my very first job as an apprentice. I feel your pain hehe

[@randydobson1863]

hello josh it's is randy and i like yours video is cool thanks john friends randy

[@BruceBoschek]

I am so relieved you didn't leave it still backed up. It was definitely worth finding out what was stopping the flow. Thanks for another very interesting and informative video. BTW, you might want to try kerosene or even a mix of kerosene and ATF. Kerosene is a wonderful diluent for oily sludge, better than mineral spirits or ATF alone.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

In my area, kerosene was more expensive than mineral spirits. That was if I could find it.

[@BruceBoschek]

@@TopperMachineLLC I hadn't thought about that. No "jetports" near you, eh? 🙂

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@BruceBoschek closest airport with Jet A is about an hour away.

[@kooldoozer]

Love this. ! ! ! --Doozer

[@brownh2orat211]

Thank you so much, I picked up the same machine and the sump is a complete swamp and been trying to figure out how to get it cleaned, really liked the machine stand going to copy that if you don't mind!

[@plepgeat]

MAN, that was satisfying.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

You should have been here to see it in person. Totally satisfying

[@StuartsShed]

Nice one - satisfying to see it all the way through! Disturbing sounds right at the start there. Didn't realize I'd have to hear that kind of noise twice early on a Saturday. 🙂

[@82ndguy5]

LOL! Exactly my thoughts! 🤣

[@gofastwclass]

Don't eat taco bell! 🤣🤣🤣

[@firehousecustomfab3286]

Good deal. I'm glad you were able to get it figured out and this will help me out. I'm planning on using a riser like you made, on my number 2 universal. My son is 6'10 and trying to work on it is tough on him. Also, I'm thinking it will help me locate a leak in the lower half of the base. So that would definitely be a blessing. Great job and great information. Thank you

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Glad my videos will help. You won't regret lifting that mill.

[@WilliamValin]

You just scooped out vintage B-17 bomber shavings. LOL

[@rebelsqk]

A few feet of 1/4" pipe snake is handy to keep around for lots of purposes.

[@joewhitney4097]

A much-needed cleaning. As mentioned below, magnets in key locations that have access to them along with maybe some type of filtering media at the main drainage point (mill table drain) would help. Good luck. Thanks for sharing.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

There are screens in several locations. Filters would plug up too fast. Needs to flow freely.

[@BrucePierson]

That must be the first oil change and service this machine has had since it was new. It sure had a massive buildup of sludge. Hopefully the flow continues to improve so that you don't need to think about an auxiliary pump.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Third oil change since I bought it 12 years ago. It just gets good use.

[@BrucePierson]

@@TopperMachineLLC You've had it a lot longer than I thought.....

[@samhendrix378]

3:58 Look like you were checking the machines prostate gland Mr. Topper. 😁🤣

[@TopperMachineLLC]

No cancer found. Lol

[@hacc220able]

Good job - You should have called Mike Rowe - thanks for sharing

[@joecapo8292]

Good evening, I had a thought. If you had a portable pump and coolant tank. Then in a pinch, when you have more time to clean the coolant system. This will help in the shop, on any of your machines. Just a thought, Joe Capo.

[@fredwooding599]

Try a Speedometer drive cable as a snake. It worked for me on the kitchen sink.

[@johnlee8231]

Glad you stuck with it made for a much more satistying ending. Think I would of used compressed air on a long nozzle with rags to catch the blow back too once you got the major restriction mostly cleared. Thx for sharing the dirty side of machine upkeep.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I will never use compressed air to clean something like this. It just has too much risk of pushing the crap into worse places and doing damage.

[@EverettWilson]

All I could think of was Taco Bell.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Lol.

[@rudolfbenner4802]

Mike Rowe !!

[@mathewmolk2089]

We had the same problem on our Cinci horizontal. After we got as much oll as we could out the same way you did we lifted it up with the big towmotor and drilled a hole in the bottom for a 3/4 NPT flat hex head socket plug. Then after 2-cources of diesel we put a tarp around the machine and let it have it with the pressure washer. - Then one more diesel treatment and we buttoned it up and refilled it with 5 gal of cutting oil - WHAT A DIFFERENCE. Don't know why they didn't put a drain plug in the bottom so it cold be flushed out a couple times a year. - a boss in the casting would have been even better; - Would have made an all day job for 2-guys into a our job for one.

[@user-ub6zt9xl1o]

FWIW I used to do oil changes on big diesel generators (100 kw-400kw). after draining the cranckcase I would then pour about 5 gallons of diesel in to the pan and run the engine for a little bit, drain it and and then fill it with fresh oil. It's probably cheaper and safer (not as volatile).

[@scrotiemcboogerballs1981]

Great video thanks for sharing I would have thought the pump would be farther away from the hole the fluid drains back into the tank that way the solids would have time to settle out before it gets back to the pump

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It's kind of a bad design.

[@edwardhugus2772]

I was going to suggest a turkey baster and flexible brush, but the brake cleaner with that straw was a better choice!

[@johnw.peterson4311]

Josh, I wonder if some earth magnets placed inside would help any? Maybe that and ATF until things improve?

[@russtuff]

Mineral Spirits really is great for degreasing. Where I'm at the prices has really gone up so I've switched to Kerosene and I'm just as happy with the performance at a much lower price.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

For some reason, kerosene was $14/gallon and mineral spirits was $9/gallon. Diesel would probably be the next choice.

[@michaeldouglas1625]

@TopperMachineLLC I've had great luck using diesel fuel, but I also have off-road diesel in bulk.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@michaeldouglas1625 I can always siphon some out of my truck if needed. Nothing else I own is diesel. I switched to gas engines in everything due to the extreme cold weather here. Makes starting so much easier.

[@summerforever6736]

I'm glad you got rid of the intro musicThanks!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I didn't want to, but it was a waste of 10 seconds.

[@summerforever6736]

sure it was! videos are great without that !@@TopperMachineLLC

[@robertpeters9438]

You might try one of the plastic drain snakes to get through some of those passages.

[@donmittlestaedt1117]

I avoid paint thinner due to fire danger. Sure as hell I'd have a fire indoors. One thing you may try is a cable in a power drill or a small sewer drain pipe rod to poke down in the hole to rod it out. Anyway, good job.

[@candicebeebe6688]

Compressed air and brake clean

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Brake clean, yes. Compressed air, no. Blowing with pressure pushes the crap deeper.

[@waynep343]

Various lengths of speedometer cable core in a drill can work in fuel lines and oil passages.

[@ElmerJFudd-oi9kj]

Well done Josh, it took some genuine detective work to find that passage.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

No foolin. That was an interesting spot to hide it.