My PROBLEM with Open Source

[@fknight]

This is an automated comment to display likes & dislikes for the video you're currently watching, since KZbin decided to disable the dislike count on videos. Views: 20426 Likes: 1281 Dislikes: 40 Ratio: 97.0% Last Updated: Dec-29-2021 KZbin, please don't ban or shadowban me. I learned how to do this from your own docs. Lol thanks.

[@N_tonio36]

Did you have to pin the comment manually?

[@PaoPaw098]

@@N_tonio36 most likely automated as well

[@gibson60]

Maybe instead of KZbin to show likes and dislikes separately, they should substract the dislikes from the likes count.

[@Chewy21414]

I love how polite he is talking about things like this. He can talk about it objectively, state the facts, and give us his point of view along with what we can learn from it. Great video man.

[@silarious9014]

The main problem was not the fact that OBS is open source, its that owners of OBS did not get any protections on the name OBS being used by another company in the same field of business. So all they had was a request not to use their name when streamlabs asked about it. SLOBS would not have been as popular if they legally weren't allowed to use OBS in the name, it might not have been used at all if people weren't under the impression it was a sister program to OBS. Close source projects also get ripped by bigger companies all the time, the lack of legal protection for the name or content of the project is what matters. Open source simply makes it easier to rip the content itself but name and title patent is a whole other issue.

[@talktothehand1212]

This is why understanding the nuances of open source licenses is super important. On the permissive side of things, MIT, BSD, and Apache all differ primarily in protections you have on restricting people from patenting your code (BSD and Apache), and Apache carves out restrictions against using names and trademarks like this exact case. I'm not well versed on the details of the GPL versions, but in my opinion, the fact I can't easily point to the GPL version that would cover this has more to do with how confusing the GPL licenses can be to navigate than my interest in doing so. These things are hard, but mainly because it's understanding the legal implications of a license more than an issue with open sourcing your efforts.

[@Speykious]

I don't think that it's a problem with open-source software. Here in particular, OBS being licensed under the GPL v2 forced SLOBS to also be licensed under the GPL. Had OBS not been under the GPL, SLOBS would have probably not cared and rip off OBS into a proprietary application. Everything related to the code being open has worked perfectly as intended. But it certainly is a trademark problem.

[@paulosullivan3472]

The thing is though by private companies stealing open source what they are in fact demonstrating with their actions is that open source is better than what they can build in house. It demonstrates that open source is at least as good if not fundamentally better than proprietary. The greatest form of flattery is..... theft?

[@cronchcrunch]

Not necessarily better, just cheaper and faster.

[@knmfujiwara]

Very insightful. Honestly, I would have been fine if Streamlabs just made it clear from the get-go; properly crediting OBS and giving some back to the community.

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

Legitimately thought OBS was renamed "Stream Labs" as a collection of open source software. Was sitting using the proper OBS thinking people were calling THAT "Stream Labs" Wasn't until I found out a friend paid for an overlay through streamlabs did I realize what had happened.

[@bruhdabones]

Everything they’ve done would be ok, if they actually found a way to differentiate themselves & hired more than one front end web dev. Putting your name on FOSS and selling it for money is completely wrong. Improving it significantly and, ya know, not copying the website 100%? That’s good

[@brandon14125]

They did also right a NodeJS wrapper around the OBS C/C++ API didn't they? And release it as OSS.

[@muhdzafri7551]

Don’t get me wrong, I love open source software but that is also why I always think about the question;should ALL software truly be open sourced? At least for now, I don’t think so, especially for some types of software like games

[@flyingmonkeys96]

for games, the engine can be open source but the art assets can be proprietary

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

I think that games should be open source on a short timescale. Minecraft (well the real version) is technically open source and it's one of the most popular games of all time, it still sold plenty and that open source nature (again technically "open source" because it's Java) helped push it into one of the most community/mod supported games of all time. You can't deny the correlation between it's number of mods and it's popularity. I understand giving yourself a couple of years even to profit off of the code by selling a closed source product, and not needing to rely on server authentication (that can still be bypassed). But eventually it needs to be opened up for the community to take a look at. At the very least things like Skyrim wouldn't be able to happen. If the source code for Skyrim was released then SE could have easily been made obsolete before the time it was released, and don't think people won't still buy the game. Steam has forever solved that problem, almost every game on the planet is readily available for free with minimal effort, releasing the source isn't going to create a mass of piracy, and as many people have said, it's truly the first month of a game's release where piracy will actually have an impact, thus the reason many games use harsh DRM solutions then patch them out later down the line. Yes it would stop companies from profiting off of pointless remasters and rereleases that fan projects usually surpass even WITH it being closed source, but that's not a bad thing. Forcing Bethesda to release the next Elder Scrolls in the series instead of milking the same game for 10 years is exactly the kind of thing open source is made for.

[@mathieusal98]

I think it's good that softwares are open source, more transparency and a way to limit shady things happening behind your back, aka what all the mega corporations are doing right now. I would not mind if it was just a service helping people to use the FOSS (Free and Open Source Software), e.g. Obsidian is a FOSS, but you can pay for cloud storage to ease yourself.

[@brandon14125]

Without OSS we would be nowhere near where we are technologically speaking

[@davidnichol4735]

@@SherrifOfNottingham It's embarrassing how clueless everything you said is. First of all, wow. You just said "MineCraft is Java." Just wow. To think I thought you had outdone yourself with the "MineCraft is open source" comment preceding it... I just don't understand what motivates you to make things up on the spot and not even bother to fact check it. Then you assert that Bethesda remastering Skyrim is some immoral act that should have been thwarted? Why don't you ask *any* of the people who bought the game more than once if they feel victimized by the big bad Bethesda that won't release the next installment for you (the individual around whom the earth revolves) for *choosing to buy their product.* When was the last time someone was kind enough to tell you you sound like an idiot?

[@gFamWeb]

There are some open source licenses, I believe, that require forks remain open source and also not be used in any proprietary work. Although that is a point of debate in the community.

[@cericat]

Yeah aka GPL v2, which is what OBS is licensed under. It's not my favourite license because there's some iffiness on what has to be provided that is derivative in the case of related plugins etc being protected by "compatible" licenses but generally you can't hide your work from the community.

[@imraninfrarote]

Honestly I've always had this concern at the back of my head about open source projects. Don't get me wrong I love open source projects and they helped me learn a lot. But the fact that someone can steal my code (especially if it's a commercial product I'm trying to build) and resell it is a bit daunting

[@zukezamamee9033]

Don't be nervous. The benefits of open source is the community and not the code itself. If they want to take the current state of the widget and go home, then they ether lose the ability to use further updates you may share or they basically scam idiot companies that was never going to use your version or support you or your work anyways. Those older business model seem strong but I think they are going to die on the vine like the parasites they are. Lol

[@sbritorodr]

You can actually solve this by releasing your code onto the gpl license. They can use your code, but under another gpl license

[@zukezamamee9033]

The cool thing about open source is if they fork, and make it "there own".... they will make change large enough where future open source updates to the original is no longer compatible and thus losing the benefits of Open source or they will make changes so small and pointless that they will be compatible but will basically be scamming people to pay them. The real problem isn't in stream labs. The problem is a lot of companies require "paid" software in their production systems and refuse to use "open source" because current "hacking insurance" believe, incorrectly, that paid software is inherently more secure than open. What I think we will start to see if a swath of new start up embracing open source software that will just forgo "hacking insurance" and becoming more secure and more competitive. I am super excited as an IT professional in this field. Just hard to get non-IT (business guys) to understand that and sign on with it as a business model. I would love to get your thoughts on the topic.

[@zukezamamee9033]

TL:DR, The benefits to open source is not necessarily the code itself but the community supporting it. You fork away from the community to hard and you lose the benefits. You fork to softly and you gain no benefits of being closed source and thus is not a good value to the customer. Lol

[@manoku9421]

The "O" in OBS literally means "Open"

[@JudgeGideon823]

The first minute summarizes about 97% of our problems in general. Great stuff as always brother.

[@boredstudent9468]

I think that's luckily an issue that would resolve it self with the spread of open source. Like anything social there are selfish people exploiting it, but if the system is large enough they just drown out, nobody cares.

[@brunoais]

11:15 I just use an OBS plugin to do that. I rather restream from my own PC than using a service. However, I understand how it can be useful for some people due to limited bandwidth on their internet. In my case, it's only a limit in encoding speed + what I do

[@apresthus87]

Agree with pretty much all of this. I've wanted to make most of my projects open source but I always end up monetizing and turning them into a business, and I've been burned in the past by people just blatantly ripping off my work, and I don't have the resources to enforce any license or take legal actions. At least I'll have my portfolio be open source XD

[@凛たる光]

I totally agree. Open source should be for learning purposes only. Instead, it is being used for stealing.

[@campuslaughs5876]

hey this is warren,studying Bsc Computer Science at Nelson Mandela Metropolitan Uni,I have been struggling.But what i wanna know do you get on an gaming projects? LoveYourChannel

[@GavinDaGrey]

Hey Forest, how much does college prestige/ranking matter for cs?

[@KingNobody91]

Hey man I really enjoy your videos. I'm 30 and currently having to switch careers due to an injury. I've been looking into web developing and software developing for weeks now. I just got myself set up with ecpi and am torn between which career path would be better long term(job security, flexibility, which has more career paths, which is more beneficial for our future, demand). I was hoping you could give some personal opinions im a norfolk resident too so im curious on if either of those paths are better for this area. Thanks for all the videos cool to see someone from the same area doing big things.

[@PJ-dx2qo]

Where is the dislike counter? Not that I would use it, just curious. You mentioned you would customize the interface to include it...

[@plusah1268]

This pisses me tf off ngl. An open source project got copied. That's so messed up.

[@muhdzafri7551]

Yeah this is also why some people totally hate GPL 3. They hate that they are not getting back code. OBS uses GPL 2 or later .

[@simpletongeek]

I guess that's why Linux stays with GPL 2 only. None of this _or later_ corruption garbage.

[@cgme9535]

@@simpletongeek Right. Linus was ardently against GPL 3 exactly because of this issue.

[@lolvivo8783]

Totally wrong, GPL3 was to protect against tivoization. And also to protect developers against big corporations by explicit patent protection.

[@lolvivo8783]

Actually all the big companies today do prey on stuff free or not to make it big commercially. cut throat competetion is good and bad. Launching a product in the same space is actually good. Regarding Opensource this is good coz it is how the project survives and bad as they do not get anything back to subsist. But the thing is everyone wanted this flexibility in first place but as soon as anyone goes to market it was going upset others. This is how fsf-gpl was launched first. It waived off IP. I wish there was a nice way to self help the community and hope slobs does give back in some way to OBS.

[@pablop9789]

This is called the AWS model

[@Otakutaru]

I would have made it a little bit shorter so I can feel confortable sharing it to more friends as a trailer

[@cameronarnold511]

I know this is a bit off topic but can anyone recommend some good resources to learn spring for java? I just graduated in information systems, but I want to build a portfolio using java and spring to try get into developing (covered java in uni already)

[@vlkhvan]

Pretty sure that was the whole reason why Logitech bought Streamlabs. If Logitech would steal those products by themselves it would heavily hurt their reputation. So they just found a company that does exactly that and bought it. Probably with agreement that they expand their stealing operations to other products that Logitech is interested in growing their streaming-oriented business, while not having time/resources to develop on their own. And of course they know about it and internally support this practice

[@tiagotiagot]

This sounds more like it's about trademark and copyright than about open-course'ness...

[@DavesChaoticBrain]

I'm confused. Did he say that Logitech owns StreamLabs? And Logitech didn't have a problem with what they did?

[@ryannathanwilson]

Is this channel still closing at the end of the year? Just stumbled across it today 😭

[@ebenmeluifechukwu4298]

I love open source and I maintain quite a few. StreamLabs did something terrible. This is not what open source was meant for.

[@garyscarborough4346]

This isn't really a problem for OBS or the other software. The real problem is that these large companies like Logitech are buying copies of the software that is under the GPL in someone else's name. Logitech can't close source the software, it doesn't belong to them. And anything they add to the code base they have to open source, so OBS can add it back to their codebase. This was dumb on Logitech's part, unless Streamlabs committed fraud, in which case you can bet the lawyers will be getting involved.

[@DemetriPanici]

I definitely think that Streamlabs and OBS could be much improved

[@baileyburnsed4352]

All of this is true, but even if you app is closes source, the same things can happen. I happened to me. This is how micrsoft got so big, steeling open source, and closed source versions of DOS and rebranded it. there are always scumbags.

[@SuchByte]

Wow after this video I really hate Streamlabs. For years I thought OBS and Streamlabs are working together because of the name...

[@fknight]

Ignore this comment. This is a test.

[@djsnooppyzatdepoet7568]

'They also markededed', markededed?

[@babardei]

Can you make a video about all you need to know to star working on OPEN source projects?

[@pieTone]

Where is the automated comment

[@木原篤郎-b4m]

In the other video he has a pinned comment saying he was met with a bug and haven’t had the time to fix it. He is working on an alternative idea to better implement the dislike count.

[@木原篤郎-b4m]

In the other video he has a pinned comment saying he was met with a bug and haven’t had the time to fix it. He is working on an alternative idea to better implement the dislike count.

[@pieTone]

@@木原篤郎-b4m oh alr, I didnt see that one! My bad.

[@plusah1268]

Slobs is messy. I can't stream vr with it. Obs? Not a problem. Ever since this slobs shit, I just completely dropped their copycat-ware

[@brandon14125]

Not defending Streamlabs, but SLOBS was open source. Sure some of their features were locked behind paywalls, but you can use it completely free. My biggest gripe is the naming. Had they not have done that, I think the specific case of SLOBS vs OBS wouldn't have been a big deal. Now then ripping off other things is a while other issue that doesn't really have anything to do with OSS from my understanding as Lightstream is not OSS.

[@Ctrl_Alt_Elite]

All the OS communities that got ripped off by Stream Labs should band together on some Avengers-level shit 😂 tut tut... sloppy & complete lack of morals/ethics from Stream Labs. As the old adage goes, "Cash rules everything around me..." 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@SCTproductionsJ5]

1:52 Sounds like.... Instagram.

[@hash-CCFF00]

plot twist: streamlabs is a subsidiary of Logitech

[@kylecrypto3243]

Is this code legitimate?

[@rodabola76]

I was just about to get to know about streaming and this came up. Nice

[@GabrielTobing]

I make some things open source, but keep the best code secret.

[@redpandagi]

Omg... I never knew. I use streamlabs

[@LeonAlkoholik67]

I really hope Logitech is going to sue Streamlabs

[@Mathcartney]

i wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones inciting this, as they're a big tech company with lots of money.

[@bongumsamamba5146]

learn assembly language and everything will become open source

[@engineermyworld]

Sounds like... they suck.

[@GwyndolinOwO]

I said this in the other video I think, and while i agree that open source adds in more holes then a licensed product does. I do think that there's a way to say that a company taking code is fine, but still say that taking a name (OBS) that doesn't belong to you is bad. When it comes to copywrite laws things get messy fast. Even when you're protected by a law you're only really protected as long as you have time and or money to file action against it. The laws do in fact protect you but i feel like at lease some of the issues going on with steamlabs are just common sense issues and not fully open source. For example nothing at all about taking code means you should just slap the name OBS on something when you're outright told no. Or other things that might cross that fine line of copying something a little too much. Basically i don't think people would have cared anywhere as much if they took the code but changed it a lot, or even gave it a different name. At least then people can't point out that Steamlabs ignored OBS's name rules or other things that are a little more dubious then just taking code to do your own thing as long as its legal.

[@Mythologos]

Open Source is not Free. Free Software is the way.

[@hubertlenningrad2252]

My understanding was that opensource was equivalent to not intending to make money off of it. You might still benefit from the end product but don't intend to make money directly by selling it.

[@TheSensationalMr.Science]

this sounds more like a problem with proprietary code and copyright rather than open source... you talk about how "people can copy code and not show it so you don't know its yours"... sounds proprietary. you talk about "people stealing code and trademarking things that aren't theirs"... again proprietary [KZbin content ID for example]. I think the problem is not open source, but instead the predatory practices that proprietary software provides and enables... this is talked about with the four freedoms that Richard Stallman set up. this isn't a problem with open source... it is a problem with proprietary-software/copyright... the same obscurity that allows people to infect others with malware. also I am totally going to look at the open source tools just mentioned... if its not open source I won't grab, see above. though I will support the creators not the predatory record labels and the dangerous copy"right" holders who seek to own everything and grab code from you in an unsupported and toxic manner like stream-labs and other companies do. also a quote from Nikola Tesla that exemplifies my feelings [ and possibly yours as well ForrestKnight] on the matter: I'm not sorry someone stole my ideas, I'm sorry that they didn't have their own ---- Nikola Tesla Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!

[@francisgricejr]

Yeah Logitech hardware is really good. But have you tried to get support recently? Everything else other than there hardware is a joke! Especially recently... What's going on with logitech? For example of one of the new issues is they are making security cameras but making them only supported by apple software... Instead of their own decent LogiCircle...

[@محمدفرج-ث7ذ3د]

Hello your are developer all front end dev know that do not use loream ipsum it us not a best pratice to do that use a real world text and the website not a copy alot of websites look like a copy but it is not that and if you remember bootstrap hell just open any website it will know that it is uses bootstrap

[@jyudat4433]

RND = Ripoff ’nd Duplicate

[@nesthi]

Streamlabs!💩

[@yugeshkk3062]

First like 😃