Flair 58 Review - Better and Worse

[@coffeechronicler]

Are you planning to upgrade to a Flair 58? And do you want to see a comparison vs the Robot in a future video?

[@seeseasaw]

Please do comparison with robot and also curious how it compare with espresso machines in the same price range

[@julianpark93]

Please compare to the robot!

[@stemazzo84]

Comparison with the Robot please 😁

[@ITWorksSoftware]

I have the flair 58 with the new valve plunger, but I’m curious about the heating of the valve/piston (not sure what it’s called on the older version) during workflow. Reason I’m curious is that it seems to me that on both versions the group seems to hottest at the TOP edge. Most people who are using the new valve plunger version leave the lever down during preheating, but with the older version the lever was usually left in the UP position during preheating. Seems to me that now with the new valve plunger version leaving the lever in the DOWN position will not heat the valve/piston as much as the older version (since the heating element provides more heat to the top and that did not change with the new design. I always preheat with the lever UP even though I have the newer version because I think it heats the valve better. I just have to remember to lower the lever back down again before filling the group with hot water. Wondering what the difference in heat retention there is because of this. I haven’t seen anyone else address this yet.

[@phildando5640]

I have the new valve and have always heated lever up. Mainly because then I feel like I’m creating a sealed heated chamber between the top valve and the portafilter. With the leaving down all that heat is easily rising out the open top. That’s without even considering that it sounds like the heat element is more towards the top of the chamber

[@HappyAccidentVideos]

The big reason to go with a manual machine isn’t the portability. It’s that you can do flow profiling. It’s basically a Decent Espresso machine, but manual, and much cheaper. It also adds to the “craft experience” to pull a shot by hand. I never even took my original Flair out of the kitchen, even though it was touted as “portable.”

[@chadgregory9037]

and basically nothing to break or maintain!

[@dilmurodavalbaev1392]

@@chadgregory9037 and price, I guess. Not many semi-automatic machines at this price range can produce the same quality of coffee out of the box, without any mods. In fact I have yet to see someone mention such a machine

[@chadgregory9037]

@@dilmurodavalbaev1392 honestly dude, if there were a "really good" solution for steaming milk, I wouldnt hesitate to get a flair 58. 95% of the time I want milk though, and proper milk too, not some nanofoamer garbage lol. TBH something that really changed my mind was seeing a set up that some youtuber had with the flair, where they mounted it directly to their countertop and had a pitcher rinser installed and offset so half of it was acting like a drip tray!! It was incredible! but damn, a solution for milk is all we need. And the bellman is a pud too. =[ The funny thing is looking at commercial steamers, and the idea of actually spending more on a steamer than the flair lol, but combined they'd still be less cost and better performing than a semi-auto machine. I had been shopping the Mara X for value purposes.. but ideally I kinda want a QM67 or profitec pro 600

[@phildando5640]

I love not having to worry about high Maintenance and complexity. Can literally see in to the brew chamber and give it an occasional wipe out if needed. I have added a pressensor to help me with profiling and getting more consistent

[@lisaOnlyLisa]

Thanks for your in depth review. We’ve had massive counter-hog automatics (Saeco Royal & Magic) for about 25 years and are looking at trying manual. I’m just tired of being a mechanic, and tired of the frequent maintenance. We feel like babies now, learning so much before we buy, and your reviews help! Thanks!

[@ShazahSews]

Nice review. I’ve had my Flair 58x for a couple of months now and have only just started to get consistent results. I opted for the x version as I didn’t want that ugly power supply, for the reasons you’ve mentioned, and I don’t regret it at all. I leave the head unit in place and run boiled water through it, with the portafilter and screen locked in place. I have a small bowl to catch the water from two boiling water passes over 5 to 6 minutes. I’m really happy with the workflow now, but as I said earlier, it took me a lot of trial and error to get the right pressure and taste for my palette. No going back to an automated espresso machine for me, ever.

[@greenisdope]

very informative and helpful, thanks Asser!

[@ayex86]

Tried 58X - the integrated rubber ring into the brewing chamber was making it harder to insert back into the base when it was preheated. Needed really good grinder. The lever was wobbly. Other than that no other issues with it. What I noticed are several rubber rings. I don't like replacing parts even after some years of usage.

[@Timberjagi]

but swapping parts is also part of a semi automatic machine so that will not really chance. they updated the rubber around the brewhead to solve this as well

[@carlossanchez8534]

I disagree with you,my friend. The Gaggia and the bambino is not better for the beginner. Yes it has more moving parts but anyone can get used to that very very quickly. When you consider that the fact that flair 58 actually pulls a shot of espresso at the quality of $3000 machines, while the Gaggia and bambino won't. Regardless of what machine you buy, you will need a good grinder. And you know that the Gaggia and bambino don't come with one either. So I strongly disagree with you and discourage anyone from buying the Gaggia

[@rich-tp2dx]

this is basically why I went with the Flair 58 for my first espresso machine/device. Everyone said Gaggia Classic Pro is great but needs $200+ and multiple upgrades to be good. Flair 58 just needs practice and a good grinder (which both you need for GCP anyway). Haven't pulled a single shot yet ofc so time will tell but I feel better having the Flair 58 instead of a machine full of electronics and shit that I need to descale, since we know how much electronics love huge rapid temperature variations and high humidity and water everywhere.

[@TomJones-tx7pb]

I agree that a 54mm basket would be a better choice. It is a bit cramped and would benefit by the base stand being 1" taller, allowing a taller cup and scale. The portafilter handle is angled down, which is a weird choice with a bottomless portafilter.

[@persianwingman]

Good review 👍🏽

[@frisbeefrolf]

Pulled my first shots (ever!!) with my flair 58 and K-Max today and it’s been amazing! Very new to espresso and even newer to specialty coffee, but I’m beyond excited and I’m so grateful for your videos and reviews. 3.1 grind on Onyx Geometry worked great 🤙

[@mikegurv1818]

Which grind setting did you use on K-Max? Was it a lighter roast? Thanks in advance.

[@mikegurv1818]

Sorry, you had already answered that question.

[@frisbeefrolf]

@@mikegurv1818 it depends on the roast and the coffee itself! Some coffees pull too fast or slower. I’ve been doing most light roasts around 18g @ 2.9 on the kmax and 2.7-2.8 for darker roasts that drain faster.

[@mikegurv1818]

@@frisbeefrolf Thank you MachFreeman.

[@mikegurv1818]

@@frisbeefrolf I have no idea what's going on lately. I have difficulty pulling a 36 gr shot in under 30 seconds even on 3.5 grind setting on K Max, for medium roast. I don't tamp too hard and usea distribution tool. My K Max is calibrated. The temp is OK. Have tried different coffees. It's a mystery.

[@zsvrljuga1]

Flair 58 or Robot, that is a question.... Sadly, you didn't give as your own point of view on that direct comparison.

[@philipbalasanov8209]

so what is the better choice when it comes to grinder selection: 1zpresso k-max/ultra OR j-max/ultra? Does 8 Microns for the latter is a "must", keeping in mind that really want both pour overs and espresso? P.S. I'm all about lighter roasted coffee 👍

[@coffeechronicler]

You don't need super fine adjustment for a lever. I'll have a video out J Ultra soon, it's a good bet if you still want some balance and body in your espresso.

[@philipbalasanov8209]

@@coffeechronicler thanks for your answer 🙇

[@stemazzo84]

Nice one Asser !!

[@j.andrewr]

I love your videos, Asser!

[@scoobydog411]

Great video thanks Man.

[@pbrewinghouse]

excellent 👏🏻👏🏻

[@peterr8538]

Hey Asser, i miss your videoes, hope to see you soon 😊

[@coffeechronicler]

Soon 😊

[@lifeenmasse]

I’m going to disagree with you, but because of my personal experience. I believe that the flare 58 is a great beginner level espresso machine I have used the flare, Ne-Yo and the Breville barista express and have gotten terrible results from both. Obviously you can get good espresso out of those machines, but the inconsistencies with brew temperature and grind size almost require a more expensive approach.

[@phrasantacitto7186]

👍👍

[@thePowerPlant]

The fit and finish of the Flair suite of machines is still a work in progress. They need to get that plunger situation fixed. It is definitely the weakest point of all their machines. Getting it seat correctly is a pain point and just looks bad. It also was a mistake to send out all these units to KZbinrs (sorry, bro). It just came off as try-hard and very commercial. I'd urge you to stop taking free units from companies. It absolutely ruins the credibility of a reviewer. Look to The Wired Gourmet, for a reviewer who buys all their own equipment and does technical tear downs of their coffee stuff.