Flame and the Lutheran Distinction

[@grettirasmundarson9980]

My brother, Flame, you are a blessing and a credit to Confessional Lutheranism. Thank you for your witness and work, putting the scriptural teaching into a new form of expression with your music.

[@ane-elise.jc.]

I've been listening to Flame since my teens, but never thought I could learn and grasp so much theology from him 😮 That's absolutely awesome!

[@dnhoop2]

Thank you for posting this. I am on a similar journey from Southern Baptist to Lutheranism.

[@kelsiklembara]

Thank you Dan - saying a prayer for you on your journey!

[@kylesalmon31]

Why so many southern Baptist’s transitioning to Lutheran? I’m southern baptist as well, but it seems I keep seeing this.

[@kuhatsuifujimoto9621]

​​@@kylesalmon31because people with no sacraments eventually start leaning on a sacrament of some form. winsome preaching, good fruits, emotional worship, hypercharismatics; they are all incomplete methods for many christians to know that God is present and that they are saved. But Jesus promises to be present in the sacraments of communion and baptism.

[@uncleloof]

Its good to hear a newer Lutheran, a convert, if you will, talk about the Lutheran faith. Born and raised in an LCMS home (my father was an LCMS pastor) I take the faith for granted, almost. Thank you Flame for speaking and confessing Lutheranism.

[@kelsiklembara]

I agree and think it's also encouraging to hear from lifelong Lutherans like you - we all have something to add to the conversation!

[@bigniftydude]

Same here brother. LCMS pastors kid. I had my long walk away from the faith but landed right back home. The prodigal son playing out again. As I came back I did a big comparison learning about the all the other denominations. It really helped me see the privilege I had. So many of my good intuitions when I was not actively believing all came from the Lutheran faith when I didn't even know it.

[@joshuaneace6597]

I grew up Baptist, spent some time in Presbyterian/Reformed and have spent time church and synagogue hopping and I was in the Lutheran Church before COVID and am coming back to Lutheranism.

[@kelsiklembara]

Great to hear - I hope this conversation was encouraging to you!

[@IanErickson-z2g]

I am an Orthodox Christian background. However, been studying Lutheranism specifically. I am very grateful how much similarity there is between the two.

[@luvgrace1]

Great conversation! Thank you ❤

[@kelsiklembara]

Thank you for listening, Sabra.

[@tickmann]

I had the same emotional fear that the guest describes when I discovered Lutheran theology. I was raised Seventh Day Adventist then found the Calvary Chapel theology in my teens. I have been a confessional Lutheran for the last 26 years. God in His grace and mercy, brought my life in Christ to rest. He took me off the spiritual tread mill and gave me peace in Christ. My Baptist friends think I've gone astray..They abhor the Sacraments especially infant baptism. I recently read a good book on the distinctions.. Has American Christianity Failed by Bryan Wolfmueller.

[@hilarybrown664]

Such a great book from a sound Biblical pastor.

[@ruthgoebel723]

Brilliant!!!

[@robertb3336]

This was a terrific conversation; great theology, on point, and conveyed in such a gentle manner. Thank you.

[@kelsiklembara]

Thank you for your encouragement!

[@pamwehking2457]

Love his down-to-earth back and forth conversation. As one who grew up in LCMS I still grew a deeper understanding… I still struggle, looking for an answer as to why I lost my son. We all suffer losses… Condolences to FLAME, a young man I was introduced to and come to admire at 1517 2022. God’s blessings…

[@FrogDad556]

Sorry for your loss. These sorts of things only have one answer. Sin. Because of sin in the world all these bad/evil things happen. We really truly underestimate the gravity and consequences of sin in the world.

[@godovermoney1124]

@@FrogDad556... WELL STATED my friend

[@godovermoney1124]

just curious. I'm not understanding your comment. Why are you giving condolences to Flame? What happened? BTW truly sorry for the loss of your son.

[@josephparks4270]

Terrific discussion.

[@kelsiklembara]

Thanks so much

[@villarrealmarta6103]

So good

[@kelsiklembara]

Thank you.

[@Carina_Rose]

That was an interesting thought on infant baptism, on why some people dismiss it. Makes sense that people would try to hold back some of salvation as their work (sure God provided the faith, but I have the intellectual prowess to receive it) even if they’d never admit to thinking of it as their work.

[@IanErickson-z2g]

17:48 It is this type of thinking that causes Calvinism to appeal to or even cause a person's narcissism.

[@godovermoney1124]

I have noticed in the past couple of years Flame does not wear his wedding ring anymore. Is he still married? Does anyone know?

[@LawrenceAlgu]

❤Is sprinkling found in the bible as water baptism ?

[@shostycellist]

For me, coming from Calvinism, I was very taken with the Biblical idea of "objective" justification or "general" justification and its relation to baptism. God has justified all (Rom. 5) and this proclamation comes to me as an individual in baptism. Baptism is a visible, non-verbal absolution, or declaration "you are forgiven" and have been forgiven all along (therefore you cannot add to it), and I give you this visible absolution (visible word, visible promise) for you to rest in.

[@RaimoSurvo]

Lutheranism at Holy Spirit can leave christian and then come back. And at the same time affirms kind of prodigal son paradigm where father is still the father of his son even if he leave. Well, of the Spirit which testifies that Father is our Abba can leave, how Father can still be father to the fellow who was trusting his baptism but know has rejected it. How the elect can reject the baptism where they where regenerated and then fall to hell. Are they elect? I don't understand how the momergism works If those whom the father gave to Christ can reject and go to hell. Also about the assurance. How you can be assured of your eternal salvation if your rejection power can overcome God's purpose?

[@swimmer4life888]

We can be assured because God's love can overcome your denial if you just have repentance like faith. It is an intellectual understanding that your sin is wrong, a sorrow for the sin since you turned away from God, and a hatred of your old self (old Adam). You need to make the personal decision to turn away from your sin, and we can do that through the power of the Holy Spirit, to accept that God does it through His abounding grace. However, the opposite is still true because God gives us free will to make decisions for or against His will. If one denies Christ and does not truly repent before the end of their life on this side of eternity, then they will get what they wanted and be forever separated from God (It pains me to write it but sadly it is true). If you believe in Jesus (John 3:16) you will be saved. It does not matter if you get baptized or not. Because if you were baptized but don't believe that Jesus is the way the Truth and the Life, you basically don't accept the Lord's gift of eternal life. But if you know about Jesus, and how he showed us what to do for our neighbors and His sacraments of baptism and communion, why should we as Christians not practice them!?! Praise the Lord that He is an unjust God and paid the price for our sins and died on the cross for us to defeat sin, death, and the devil!!! His ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and Lutherans understand this the most. It is by Grace alone that we are Saved! Through Faith Alone, In CHRIST ALONE!!😁 Hope this helps (sorry for the essay and love helping❣Great discussion Flame and Kelsi!

[@isaiahceasarbie5318]

Hello. I’m a member of the church of Christ. We do believe baptism is a work of God, rather than a work of man. Therefore, it is not opposed to justification by faith, but is the very expression of it. In Titus 3:5, for example, Paul places the “washing of regeneration” into the category of “mercy” in contradistinction to “deeds which we did in righteousness.” Thus, our disagreement with Luther is not so much with the purpose or nature of baptism, but with the mode that baptism is supposed to be administered. Luther defended infant baptism; we believe and practice the immersion of believers. People find this strange because those who practice immersion are typically Zwinglian in their understanding of baptism, while those with a sacramental persuasion are typically those who also believe in the propriety of infant baptism. But this stereotype and division is wrong, as the existence of baptistic sacramentalists like the churches of Christ show.

[@kelsiklembara]

Hi there! Thanks for offering this explanation - I by no means want to make a straw man of another tradition and so I'm so thankful for your gracious explanation. If the disagreement comes down to the mode of baptism, a clarifying question I have is would churches of Christ be ok with the full immersion of infants? Luther himself actually supported this!

[@burgernofries]

@@kelsiklembara I've been in many churches of Christ in several regions for a few decades and I can confirm what @isaiahceasarbie5318 said. We would not agree with baptizing infants because we don't believe that infants are lost. The churches of Christ don't teach original sin. We don't believe either of these were taught or practised in the early early church. Infant baptism became a thing because a few began to be concerned for their children in the 2nd century. Then later, the doctrine of original sin began after that practice had already started. If you're interested in learning more, I think the scholar Everett Ferguson has the best material available on this. Also, thank you for the good discussion. I very much appreciate the views of Lutherans and the engagement between believers.

[@kelsiklembara]

@@burgernofries thank you so much for your comment. This is so interesting-although like I mention in the interview I spent some time in the churches of Christ, I honestly did not know this belief concerning original sin. I obviously disagree with that belief, but that does help clarify the church of Christ position. Thanks for sharing!

[@solosaloon1959]

Ugh. Adolf Hitler was baptized as an infant. I’m so confused!

[@ruthgoebel723]

Lots of people get baptized as infants and fall away. Why? Because the charge to parents, to bring up the child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, is being ignored. Baptism is not a 'lucky charm's.

[@godovermoney1124]

that was his parents choice. He chose sin however 😢

[@ruthgoebel723]

@@godovermoney1124 Exactly.

[@swimmer4life888]

Adolf was not doing God's will and abused what Jesus taught. He even took his own life instead of allowing God to make that call. He and every other person who ever lived in this world was made by God. Instead of using his free will to thank God for his life, he instead took the lives of millions. I wouldn't be too worried about the man paying for his sins eternally in hell because he lived his final years against God's will. Because if you were baptized but don't believe that Jesus is the way the Truth and the Life, you basically don't accept the Lord's gift of eternal life.