Old Testament Origins of Baptism w/ FLAME & Chad Bird

[@jesusinfive]

Love that thought and reality, “I am baptized. I’m a baptized child of God.” So comforting and refreshing.

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Amen! Truly! Thx for posting!

[@patenmk2286]

Being baptised by God (through a pastor) is really comforting. I am a child of God! Thanks Flame and bother Chad Bird. Greetings!

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx for watching and for posting! 🫡

[@isaiahceasarbie5318]

Chad Bird: Don’t say “I was baptized.” Say “I am baptized.” Because it’s not a point in time, but the established reality now of who I am as a child of God. I am one who God the Father has baptized into Christ Jesus. That establishes who I am-everyday-from the moment of my baptism onwards. . . Because the water of baptism never evaporates. Hallelujah, what a Savior!

[@jgeph2.4]

That was gold ! So good !

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Yaaaas!!! Amen! Thx for watching! 🫡

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Truly truly! Thx for watching!!!

[@johanmarx4415]

...but that water of baptism can evaporate if the one baptized moves out of Jesus's authority as his/her Lord. Jesus can only be your Saviour if He is your Lord first and foremost.

[@rickyelocke4321]

Very interesting conversation and powerful teaching.

[@Userofam]

This was fantastic! Didn’t expect anything less from you two. Thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for helping us dive deeper with thinking through baptism. ☺️

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Such kind words!!! I thoroughly appreciate them! Truly! 😃

[@tulsajhawk]

Thank you for this conversation!!

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx for watching! 😃

[@ruthgoebel723]

God chose me! Hallelujah!

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Faaaaacts!!! Thx for posting!

[@JoelRipke]

Grafted in! My life is now in Christ!

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Amen!

[@shen1512]

2 people who I follow in the internet!

[@tonypittenger6253]

My wife's two "celebrity crushes".

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Encouraging to hear! Thx!

[@jordantsak7683]

15:46 Βαπτίζω. Excellent pronunciation Chad.

[@kraigd.1493]

Love this discussion

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx, Kraig!

[@echomountain3370]

Fantastic chat.

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx a billi!

[@frednaumann992]

More of this please! Great job.

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx, Fred! More to come! Stay tuned!

[@frednaumann992]

@@ExtraNosAcademy you better I will be watching

[@rheabroughton4592]

Hey Flame, I’m not sure the best way to correspond to you but about a year ago I sent you a message about learning more about church history. You gave me a nice reference of a book. I just finished reading and listening to your book Extra Nos and I am really humbled by a lot of. It took me on an emotional journey myself, as I felt deeply triggered by a lot of your church experiences because I could relate. As I am wrestling with baptism, my ears are open even more as I read devotions and hear things that talk about baptism being an “expression” of inward changes. I’m curious how you would help me understand Matthew 3:11 in light of all that you have come to understand about scripture? History is not my strong point but I love how you used scripture constantly to rightly interpret scripture.

[@moebuziness9167]

I can honestly say. 1 thing you all made me do is study. I have been going to a community church for years. Flame I have listen to you since you were with Cross movement . Funny, Duece is a friend of my Pastor here in Dallas and has preached at my church several times. Since becoming Lutheran it's like you are an outcast. I personally was excited for you and would hope it would challenge people to study more. Especially the Chh culture, but I don't know it seems that people don't understand what you did and that's the reason for the way you have been treated..I hope I was not too wordy, but just praying for you bro keep up the content..Also, is there a LCMS church here in Dallas you could recommend me to..I would love go to a service someday..God Bless!

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

My bro! Niiiice, you got back! I love it! Be encouraged, though. There a lot of dope things happening behind the scenes in the CHH community & among Evangelicals, in general. God is faithful! I do believe the Lord is serving His church by exposing us to Confessional Lutheran thought! It’s certainly a hidden treasure in our midst! Gods is good! Here is a link to find a Confessional Lutheran church there in Dallas: locator.lcms.org/dashboard I’ll also hit you up if I find one in particular for ya! I appreciate your heart, bro! Truly! I can tell you’re a good dude! 🫡 Talk soon. God’s peace.

[@PhillyboulJ215]

🔥🔥🔥

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx bro!

[@mercedesvan-doors34]

So many Christians almost ignore the OT it nice to hear the continuity of scripture discussed here.

[@SirCliffAsIf]

I was with you right up until the child baptism issue. I don’t understand fully the concept of how someone might be saved that way. Many questions and not many answers.

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx for watching! I understand, it can sound strange to the ear as a contemporary Christian. Did you understand the argument for it, though? Perhaps, take a 2nd or 3rd listen. For 1600 years and counting, Christians have baptized their babies. To not do so is a new thing. Due to an unfortunate shift by the newly invented denomination, the Baptist.

[@SirCliffAsIf]

@@ExtraNosAcademy would it be possible to connect outside of KZbin? I have some questions that are genuine and sincere?

[@kac0404]

‭1 Corinthians 10:1-2 KJVAAE‬ [1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

[@aNeighbour]

So if Naman was baptized, did someone else as a "stand in" for God baptize him?

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Good question. Thanks for asking. God uses physical means to deliver His grace. Sermons (physical means). Bible reading (physical means). Water tied to His word, baptism. All physical things tied to God’s word. That’s how He saves us. Jesus Himself is fully man, (physical means) and fully God. That’s how God works. He ties His word to physical means to save. Think the Tree of Life in Eden. Or, the eating of the slain lamb in the Old Testament. We simply lay hold of His promise to save, by faith. The faith the Holy Spirit creates in us by His word. His word delivered in many ways. By physical means. Yes, He uses human hands to baptize but in baptism God does the miraculous work of deliverance. I hope that helps a bit. Thx again for asking. 🫡

[@aNeighbour]

Thanks for the response. What prompted me to ask this, is because at around 16:00 he says something like"Naman dipped himself 7 times....and it's the same word as 'baptism' in Greek" but then at 31:40, he says "I don't baptize myself." And I'm trying to think through how that rectifies.

[@aNeighbour]

I'm not a Lutheran but I do enjoy listening to Lutherans such as Chad Bird, Jordan B. Cooper, and of course Flame. And I think that the concept of God using physical means to deliver grace makes great theological sense biblically. I can totally affirm that.

[@jamessapia3364]

Are you both teaching that baptism saves you?

[@johanmarx4415]

Hey brothers in Christ. Just a note on the infant baptism... Old Testament circumcision was a symbol of the covenant God had with Israel. In contrast, baptism is not a covenant. Baptism is a symbolic dying of the old person/soul and the resurrection of a new person/soul in Christ Jesus - just as Paul describes. We shouldn't confuse or misunderstand these 2 terms. In the New Testament, only people who came to faith in Jesus, was baptized, not infants as an infant cannot come to faith, an infant cannot make a choice for Jesus. Furthermore, if you go into the history of infant baptism, you'll find that the practice originates from Babilon and is linked to occultism. Infant baptism, in its core, comes to the contracting of the infant's soul with demonic entities, laying a spiritual binding on the child. Infant baptism is a demonic covenant, not a covenant from our God. Peach and love in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[@josephbrown6906]

I very respectfully disagree about infant baptism. Paul does connect circumcision and baptism, but which circumcision or circumcisions was he referencing. There were three circumcisions spoken of in the Old Testament: physical, of the heart, and of the ears. The Prophets and Paul himself made abundantly clear that physical circumcision was useless if one wasn't also circumcised in one's heart and ears. Similarly, physical baptism is useless if one isn't inwardly baptized as well. Paul is talking about inward circumcision in Colossians, circumcision of one's heart and ears, circumcision done without hands. This passage therefore doesn't demonstrate the legitimacy of infant baptism.

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx for posting. But Paul says: Colossians 2:11-12 “In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.” Paul clearly connects them here. Only Baptistic ppl fight this. All other Christians are free to see the connection. Even John Calvin understood this. The newest and most novel view is the Baptist one. I’m going with scripture and the ancient Church’s understanding. In this case newer is *not* better.

[@josephbrown6906]

@@ExtraNosAcademy I'm basing my understanding on Scripture. At most, in the Old Testament, physical circumcision was a sign of being a part of the elect people. It, however, was not proof of salvation. Old and New Testament make it clear that circumcision of one's heart and ears was what mattered most to God. Water baptism is a part of salvation, but without the internal baptism of Holy Spirit and the Word, it is useless. Without saving faith in Christ, it is just getting wet, but when one is baptized because one believes, one receives a new level of Holy Spirit and the new man that was conceived when one first believes is born in water baptism. The thing is a baby cannot believe. I would argue that it's quite debatable that John the Baptist believed in the womb. What happened was Holy Spirit supernaturally came upon him in the womb which caused him to leap. No faith was required or demonstrated in this.

[@bigtobacco1098]

All new testament baptism followed the OIKOS format

[@bigtobacco1098]

​@josephbrown6906 circumcision was a sign of belonging to the visible covenant of Israel.. some within this were actually regenerate... however ALL received the sign...

[@jamessapia3364]

He meant 8 DAYS, not years.

[@KevinDay]

The Cross was a physical, mundane, human-made torture instrument. And yet God used it and thus we glorify it. If you're okay with glorifying the cross and not with glorifying water (which God made btw), you're being inconsistent.

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Preeeeach!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️ Well said!!!

[@jontheb123]

Paul brings up circumcision in Romans too and makes it clear that it's the circumcision of the heart and not the flesh that saves. There may well be a connection between circumcision and baptism but we must admit that many who are baptized (both as infants and adults) wander away and shipwreck their faith. Putting these two issues together, I don't feel right telling people that baptism saves because it clearly isn't always the case. From the great commission, it seems clear that new testament baptism is something that we do to disciples as a starting point when we begin teaching them to obey all that God commands.

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Baptism is God’s work. Not ours. He baptizes us. Though He uses us and our limbs, He gets the credit for baptizing us. Galatians 3:27 “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” We can NOT put on Christ by our own efforts. Nor can we baptize ourselves into Christ. These things are accomplished by the works of God Himself. We are dead in sin and can NOT bring ourselves back to life. Therefore, God does it. By His word. Delivered in many way. Baptism (Water & His word joined) as one of those means of grace. Though, one can be saved without being baptized. Selah.

[@rickygaillardjr8109]

Crucified? Yes. Criminal???? NO. Jesus is and was absolutely innocent. Though He was Crucified between two thieves, He was never convicted of anything. Let's be careful with the image of our Savior. I appreciate the point being made. But... criminal? Not at all.

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx for posting!

[@ExtraNosAcademy]

Thx for posting!

[@jackdillon6172]

So I we baptize our infant child than they are saved? No repentance needed? Any record of infant baptism in scripture. Like saying the magic prayer saves us. Repentance is unnecessary? Always liked you stuff but this is scary

[@Stephanie_Villegas]

It's the water attached to HIS WORD. It's not merely water, it is His promise that we look to. He puts His name on us.

[@FollowChristNotMan]

Naaman went to his master and told him what the girl from Israel had said. 5 “By all means, go,” the king of Aram replied. “I will send a letter to the king of Israel.” So Naaman left, taking with him ten talents[b] of silver, six thousand shekels[c] of gold and ten sets of clothing. 6 The letter that he took to the king of Israel read: “With this letter I am sending my servant Naaman to you so that you may cure him of his leprosy.” 7 As soon as the king of Israel read the letter, he tore his robes and said, “Am I God? Can I kill and bring back to life? Why does this fellow send someone to me to be cured of his leprosy? See how he is trying to pick a quarrel with me!” 8 When Elisha the man of God heard that the king of Israel had torn his robes, he sent him this message: “Why have you torn your robes? Have the man come to me and he will know that there is a prophet in Israel.” 9 So Naaman went with his horses and chariots and stopped at the door of Elisha’s house. 10 Elisha sent a messenger to say to him, “Go, wash yourself seven times in the Jordan, and your flesh will be restored and you will be cleansed.” 11 But Naaman went away angry and said, “I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the Lord his God, wave his hand over the spot and cure me of my leprosy. 12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Couldn’t I wash in them and be cleansed?” So he turned and went off in a rage. 13 Naaman’s servants went to him and said, “My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more, then, when he tells you, ‘Wash and be cleansed’!” 14 So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times, as the man of God had told him, and his flesh was restored and became clean like that of a young boy. 15 Then Naaman and all his attendants went back to the man of God. He stood before him and said, “Now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel. So please accept a gift from your servant.” 2 kings 5:4-15 Then Elijah said to all the people, "Come here to me." They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the LORD, which was in ruins.31Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the LORD had come, saying, "Your name shall be Israel."32With the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs [1] of seed.33He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, "Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood."34"Do it again," he said, and they did it again. "Do it a third time," he ordered, and they did it the third time.35The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.36At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command.37Answer me, O LORD, answer me, so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again."38Then the fire of the LORD fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.39When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The LORD--he is God! The LORD--he is God!" 1 kings 18:30-39