Flex Testing a Forester Wilderness with and without Sway Bars

Swaybars are for race cars. They stiffen the suspension and reduce body roll in high speed corners by physically linking the left and right suspension to move up and down together. There's one swaybar for the front and one for the rear. For off roading, they are a massive hinderance! When the swaybar end-links are removed, each wheel can move up and down COMPLETELY independently, better conforming to the terrain. This significantly improves comfort, traction, and suspension articulation off road! Because Subarus are unibody construction with a low/flat boxer engine, their center of mass is very low. This makes it very easy to maintain good stability and handling when the swaybars are disconnected or removed completely. Even with a lift, larger tires, and no sway bars, a Subaru will still handle WAY better than most luxury vehicles and large SUVs. Removing your end-links is easy and completely reversible, so you can test it out for yourself! Under normal driving conditions, you won't notice a difference. If you take corners like a psycho, you'll notice more body roll, but it's easily manageable once you get used to it.

[@SubaruAmbassadorRobert]

Wow, good stuff! I think I have to try that with my Ascent tomorrow. I expected the FozW to do a bit better... but, I am impressed with how it handles bumps off roading at speed.

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Subarus can go without swaybars pretty easily, the low/flat boxer engine with unibody construction and fully independent suspension make it super easy

[@SubaruAmbassadorRobert]

@@MatthewHeiskell yep, sure does! The Ascent, with its weight, seems pretty good at doing full articulation even with them connected, but I suspect that may have changed on the newer years when the struts were revised.

[@SubaruAmbassadorRobert]

@@MatthewHeiskell yep, but the Ascent can interestingly twist its bars enough to do full articulation. That's one of the things I want to test now that I have stiffer (Eibach) springs on them.

[@kevinm5177]

Very cool. The end links are so tiny!

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Yes they are! Haha

[@octurbojoe]

Nice comparison, Matt. However, adding both ramp heights while the tires touch the ground does not equate to the combined articulation. With both sway bars removed, the rear will always have more, and the front will always have less. To get more precise readings, measure the tire gap at resting height, then measure up and down travel on opposite sides, and subtract (or add) the difference from resting height. Do the same on alternate wheels for consistency, then average both sides for a definitive number.

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Thanks, Joe! I think that adding both ramp heights is an easy and accurate way to determine the total articulation. This method does not determine how much came from the front vs rear, but I know that the total corner travel is the summed ramp heights . . . well it’s actually a little more for the Ironman cuz the all the tires were still easily touching, and a little less for the wildy struts that held a tire in the air.

[@liamennis4516]

Hi Matthew, have you taken anymore duration flights with the planes? I’d love to see an upgraded version

[@MatthewHeiskell]

No, I'm sorry. I haven't flown my planes in almost 2 years.

[@kohort1]

Do you get a lot of tire rub inside? I bought an obw with 245 65 17 toyo ATs. And it seems tight in there. Even though they are snow rated, im not sure they will accept snow cables (in an extremely icy situation like in mornings).

[@MatthewHeiskell]

I don't get any rubbing with my 245/65R17 tires. I think the newer OBW have smaller wheel wells than the slightly older OBs. You might have to go to a slightly smaller tire if you want to run traction aids. Or you could modify or remove the plastic wheel well liners (as long as you don't live somewhere that salts the roads in the winter).

[@Qhaway]

So even with the factory lift and extended struts, the Ironman kit provides better articulation than a stock wilderness. What about ground clearance, do you gain much with the ironman kit over the stock wilderness? Do you think it would be worth it to put an ironman kit onto a wilderness? Your forester videos are a wealth on knowledge, thanks a bunch.

[@ThinkFreely2012]

I have the Ironman lift on my Wilderness. I've done this same test and it climbs it fine with no drama and all tires firmly on the ground. My rear bar is deleted but it still has the front one for now.

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Thanks! I have a brand new Ironman suspension waiting for my Forester Wilderness, but I’m going to try putting the ADF Eco lift on it first. It’s a 1.5” front spacer and a 1” rear spacer. Adding that to the 0.5” higher wildy struts SHOULD be an awesome combo. I’m going to test that next.

[@ThinkFreely2012]

@MatthewHeiskell if you like the feel of the stock ride then you'll probably like it that way. The Ironman lift is notably stiffer. My wife loved the stock ride, but she isn't fond of the new ride feel. Btw I have the medium spec springs, not the spec-c springs.

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Yeah, we are used to the Ironman with medium springs, so the wildy struts are super comfy, haha

[@Goodward7]

Where can I buy those ramps? What brand, and what item designation, name, or part-number? Are similar but MUCH TALLER ramps also offered?

[@MatthewHeiskell]

They are called Rhino Ramps. You can get a pair for about $50 at WalMart. I stack them to make them taller. I use some 2x4 scrap to make a little helper ramp. So useful!

[@gavinbaker100]

Still cannot figure out why you do not have to put brake line extensions to compensate for the extra wheel travel. Help!

[@MatthewHeiskell]

The brake line relocation brackets help ease the strain on the hose when the suspension is at full droop. You should install them if you install a lift. Most kits include them. The front never needs them, but the rear does at 2” of lift. But disconnecting or removing swaybar endlinks does not change the point of full droop. For example, if the vehicle is stock, and you disconnect or remove the endlinks, the brake lines are still fine at full droop.

[@Doc1855]

But how is that going to work for driving on the highway?

[@MatthewHeiskell]

It’s completely fine because the low/flat boxer engine and unibody chassis give the Subaru a very low center of mass. Combine that with the fully independent suspension and it still handles great without them. You can remove the end-links and leave the bars and try that for a couple days. I’ve done over 1,000 miles in this configuration. I’ll completely delete both in about a week. I completely deleted both on my 19 about 4 years ago.

[@ThinkFreely2012]

I have the 2" Ironman lift on my Wilderness. I deleted my rear bar but left the front for now. It's fine on the highway.

[@ohimalbert]

Hey Matt, did you you ever end up running the 1.5"/1" ADF lift? My FIL is considering that option over the LP Aventure 2" for his outback wilderness.

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Yeah man! I have the wildy struts and the ADF Eco lift on the 19 Forester right now. It's a SWEEET combo!

[@tristancefail]

Nice! I think I’m going for the LP 2” lift!

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Do you have a wilderness? A 2” lift might be too much because the wilderness struts already have 0.5” of lift. Also, the LP lift is a terrible value, you can get a whole new set of Ironman struts with longer travel for the same price. That’s what I’ve had on my 2019 for 3.5 year and it’s excellent.

[@tristancefail]

@@MatthewHeiskell I do! I’m on the pages and I think I commented on your post, I heard some things about the Ironman losing ground clearance over a year. Then I heard great things. LP is having a great sale and I don’t hit trails often being in Mass. I had the 2” ADF on my last Forester and I liked it alot

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Even if the Ironman settles a bit, it will still provide more performance than the over priced LP kit. Next week I’m going to install the ADF Eco lift in my 24 FW. It’s 1.5” front and 1” rear. Should perfectly complement the 0.5” higher wildy struts. They are having a sale right now too.

[@mironelektron5990]

Очень хорошие вещи показываешь!

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Thank you!

[@ZensivYT]

Am I able to just disconnect the sway bars? Or if I’m going to leave it disconnected should I just try and remove the sway bars

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Yeah, start by disconnecting them, then fully deleting is the way to go.

[@ImaYam]

DaaaaM what a difference! That a really capable car once you remove the end links. Did u remove the sway bar or just disconnect it

[@MatthewHeiskell]

Yes! Exactly! For this video I just disconnected the swaybars by removing all 4 endlinks. I’ll completely delete them soon. I completely deleted them on my 2019 about 4 years ago. The low/flat boxer engine and the unibody construction make the center of mass really low. Combine that with the fully independent suspension and it still handles really well on the road.

[@ImaYam]

@@MatthewHeiskell how is it on the highway

[@MatthewHeiskell]

You don’t notice a difference on the highway, only when high speed cornering, just a bit more body roll.

[@MDZac2024]

Is it safe to leave the in-links off?

[@MatthewHeiskell]

You have to decide that for yourself. It is a free and reversible mod, so you can test it out and decide. Most offorad subies just completely delete them. It still handles better and quicker than a Cadillac.

[@aarontrotter5188]

Going to Colorado in August. Will be disconnecting after this video

[@MatthewHeiskell]

It’s a game changer mod! Free and reversible too! My favorite is the improved comfort and traction on trails!

[@Zanderthelab]

You aren’t going to do much flexing with independent suspension

[@MatthewHeiskell]

That's not true actually! With longer travel Ironman struts and no swaybars it can score a 525 RTI. I Solid axles can flex more, but 525 is pretty dang good for the improved handeling and comfort that comes from fully independent suspension.

[@Zanderthelab]

@@MatthewHeiskell how’s your mileage?🤣

[@MatthewHeiskell]

@@Zanderthelabstill really good, 30+ mph on the highway at 65-70 mph