Weird Request for ATC Help, after I forgot something...

[@FlightChops]

Feedback received loud and clear regarding not including the landing in this episode (thanks to everyone that watched to the end by the way, I try REALLY hard to keep these episodes tight and this was a longer one). The focus was the single pilot enroute IFR workflow; However, I understand the frustration of being so close to landing, and then not seeing it... so, here it is :) www.patreon.com/posts/missing-landing-117306316

[@FlightChops]

Here's a comment that came in after I posted the landing and pinned my comment to share it, otherwise I'd have pinned this one: "Hi Steve I can share a little bit of insight on the "radio" vs ATC question. Many airports with Class E airspace in Canada are staffed with a Flight Service Station. FSS provide surface weather observations (most places), Airport Advisory Service, and Vehicle Control Service. Some also provide Remote Aerodrome Advisory Service. To address a couple questions you had in the video: FSS will control vehicles on the ground but not aircraft. Aircraft still need to state their intentions and are responsible for conflict resolution. Also note aircraft stay on the mandatory frequency even while on the ground, but vehicles are on a separate frequency: oftentimes, though these frequencies will be combined. You mentioned that radio doesn't have radar coverage. This is not the case at most locations. In fact, CYYB was one of the first FSS sites certified to use surveillance (aka radar.) Also interesting to know, because Radio doesn't control aircraft, IFR ATC cannot allow more than one IFR in the control zone at a time. That's why you were given a speed restriction on the approach. If the number one aircraft was landing at a controlled airport IE Class D, then they very likely would have been under control of the tower upon reaching the control zone boundary. Instead, Toronto Centre had to wait until the number one aircraft had landed before you were cleared for the approach."

[@colinrasmussen9470]

Given you posted this, we're pretty sure you landed okay LOL.

[@FlightChops]

@@colinrasmussen9470 - If you scan the comments, you'll find some viewers that definitely were disappointed the landing wasn't included, which is fair - so I solved that by posting it the following day, at the link shared in the pinned comment.

[@joekelly7505]

I’m glad I’m not the only person who can potentially become preoccupied with my dumb mistakes and missteps. I need a placard on my forehead that reads “fly the airplane” which is pretty much good advice for living. Great video! Great cause.

[@healerf18]

Great video! We have several "Radio" supported airports in Alaska. Very similar to Canada - they can open and close flight plans, provide status reports for traffic, update weather, etc, but they don't direct air or ground traffic. They provide great service in often remote places. Once communication is established with Radio, pilot position reports in the pattern, etc. are exactly the same as any un-controlled airfield.

[@FlightChops]

Thanks for sharing this insight. I had heard that this is how it works in Alaska, but hadn't seen a direct example.

[@healerf18]

@@FlightChops Sounds like it's time to plan a trip to Alaska! :)

[@thunderbolt513]

Hi Steve. Nice to see you back with another (cool) video, as usual. Riding along with you is always a pleasure, since the early days. Creating immersive content isn`t easy, so kudos for you for what you do and how you do it. Good winds & happy landings from Portugal.Oh and that RV is a must.👍

[@kevinklassen4328]

I absolutely love your plane. I was initially thinking of getting an older SR22 but yours looks just as good. The only thing I would still want is the parachute, especially if flying single engine in IFR conditions.

[@MelanieMoxon]

Different services in different countries and their oddness. In the UK we have a couple of types of uncontrolled airfield, 1) no radio at all, pilots are advised to use the Safety Com Frequency 135.475 and 2) Air to Ground radio, which provides services such as radio checks, weather and runway and occasionally traffic information but does not provide any kind of control. We then have FISO services where in the air its much the same as a A-G radio service "land at your discretion". But on the ground they maintain control (request permission to taxy etc.) as you would find at a controlled airport. But once at the runway its "take off at your discretion". We then have towered airports...much the same the world over. Interesting to see how other countries do things. Great video as always Steve.

[@MickeLang]

This is why we do this and sharing it is even better!🤘🏼 How often have I heard “70 miles inbound Northbay contact me on ….” 😂

[@gregorykusiak5424]

I haven’t watched this channel for a while, but I did enjoy this trip to North Bay with you. Thanks!

[@FlightChops]

Welcome back! There’s a lot to catch up on 👍

[@66aviator]

"Stinger".... I like it.

[@weekend-flyer]

Man your videos are always great. Cloud surfing looks fun.

[@FlightChops]

Yeah, the weather that day was perfect for it.

[@danruehl6231]

Thanks for the 14 fix Steve…my plane is at Evoke…and I’m missing it!

[@FlightChops]

It is SO worth the wait.

[@AlphaKilo.Warrior]

I was going to stay VFR forever, but after experiencing IMC actual last month going into Caldwell, NJ with NY approach, I need my IFR fix 😂

[@cyh4031]

Is this my Connecticut friend ?

[@AlphaKilo.Warrior]

@ I heard CT is the pizza 🍕 Capital of the World. I invite Chops down for a visit, fly into Tweed and we’ll take a crew car into New Haven to see if this is true.

[@cyh4031]

@AlphaKilo.Warrior expensive pizza with fuel costs from Canada...but I guess if ya got it spend it. 😆

[@CanardBoulevard]

I am in Cleveland, but I'm (from and) also certificated in Canada, and I fly there often. Your description of the Canadian "Radio" differences is dead on. As for flying up north...I flew out to Sydney NS and back this summer, and there were large, extended periods of time where if I lost my engine, I was either going swimming or eating trees. Lastly...I forgot my phone once too. I added "phone in plane" to the end of my preflight checklist as a result.

[@kevinklassen4328]

If I was planning to fly regularly in Sydney and that area, would you feel safe doing it in a regular plane or would you recommend a plane with a chute?

[@CanardBoulevard]

@@kevinklassen4328 That's really up to you and your own risk management. Clearly I felt safe doing it or else I wouldn't have flown there. That said, there are VERY few airports in that part of Canada. If you do have an engine issue, you are pretty much guaranteed of an off-airport landing in a single-engine aircraft. Do you choose to stay above highways to mitigate risk? Do you choose an airplane with a ballistic chute? Or perhaps you choose to go with a seaplane, which opens up your potential landing spots greatly? Or maybe a light twin engine airplane, to add redundancy? There are many options.

[@04m6gto]

Thanks for the ride! Some beautiful footage there.

[@FlightChops]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@thezuluhotel]

A Canadian in a rush shirt. Love it

[@zachheilman784]

3:52 I didn't know this feature existed (radio replay) but it seems like such an obvious thing, I would use this all the time.

[@cfairfull8030]

Radio is essentially a conversation as opposed to a command and control discussion. Most don’t even have radar. They are staffed by flight service specialists as opposed to controllers. There’s a lot of them in Alberta, mostly in airports where they are big enough for commercial aviation but too small to make the necessity of staffing and full controller team. They give IFR clearances, altimeter settings, traffic advisory, and other services. Can actually be really useful. I flew to Lethbridge, AB and they got one there. They get Encore Q400s everyday now so they are there to assist. Highly recommend going to one if you need to time build. I went to Lethbridge at night as a double whammy and am happy I have been through it and understand how it works.

[@jetjock60]

Steve, longtime CFII and professional pilot here. In the U.S. If a Flight Service Station is located on the field, which is sadly only in Alaska anymore, they provide ¨Airport Advisory Service¨ which is wind, weather, and reported traffic. The field however is ¨Non-Towered¨ or uncontrolled, so no clearances given. In fact if you wish to depart under an IFR clearance from such a field, the specialist will say the phrase "ATC Clears" after he phones up the local control in charge of the airspace, to differentiate that he is simply passing the instructions in the clearance on to you.

[@AwesomeAngryBiker]

STOP bragging about yourself Mr know it all show off expert 🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@EmesiS]

Great footage as always Steve. But why no final landing footage? Man, I was a little bit bummed. Cheers!

[@FlightChops]

Thanks for watching to the end 👍 - you’re not the only one making this comment - sorry about that. I considered this episode more about the enroute operations and that landing was so uneventful and took a while to play out after an already 25 minute video; but next time I will let it run to the end. I might post that to instagram or make an unlocked Patreon post for those that needed the closure 😂

[@CanardBoulevard]

@@FlightChops The ending was so sudden, I actually thought; "oh no, Steve had a problem with this render, and he posted it without catching it beforehand."

[@EmesiS]

@@FlightChops Sure I understood the reason for the video, but everyone likes a happy ending.😉👍

[@FlightChops]

ok - I'm receiving this feedback loud and clear. I'm making some time shortly to edit the landing and I will upload it as an unlocked Patreon post and will link it via the endscreen card on this video - I'll also share the link in the comments for those who felt it was missing.

[@EmesiS]

@FlightChops lol...dude, no need to make an extra effort. Just maybe for future reference. I'll always watch your content, for the quality of the videos and the lessons you provide. I also enjoy the flight sim stuff you do sometimes. Keep up the good work. You are appreciated!

[@Mixturerich]

Enjoyable and will join the Sirius XM Weather Webinar tonight. Thanks for link. Would have been fun to include the landing in the video - video ended abruptly.

[@FlightChops]

Thanks for watching to the end 👍 - you’re not the only one making this comment - sorry about that. I considered this episode more about the enroute operations and that landing was so uneventful and took a while to play out after an already 25 minute video; but next time I will let it run to the end. I might post that to instagram or make an unlocked Patreon post for those that needed the closure 😂

[@Mixturerich]

😂

[@FlightChops]

www.patreon.com/posts/missing-landing-117306316 👊

[@SteveMiddleton]

So we have ‘Radio’ in the UK (which is probably where Canada got it from). You are absolutely correct when you describe it as they control you on the ground, up to the hold. We have 2 types of ‘Radio’ but basically it’s classed as an information-only service, rather than instruction in the air. This means you’ll get radio calls to you such as “land at your discretion” which effectively translates to “land if you want to”. The correct reply would be to tell the person on the other end of the radio what you are doing, rather than wait for permission e.g. “C-GA, landing runway 26” The person on the radio will have a level of training below full ATC (perhaps Air-to-Ground or a FISO, Flight Information Services Officer).

[@1hornet1]

I really enjoyed this one brother. Thanks.

[@clarencewiles963]

Thumbs up 👍 everyone has a stressful time. Good use of the channel for your situation.

[@FlightChops]

👍

[@ShrubWasTaken]

That radio replay feature on the garmin is sick!

[@ruairitiernan8727]

Thanks for another super informative video 👍

[@jimengberg3117]

Would like to see a camera pointed behind you while cloud surfing. The wake would be cool.

[@FlightChops]

That’s a great idea for a future video!

[@highlandercam8790]

Hey Steve, I'm a Canadian IFR controller out west. Regarding the when required; we give "altimeter xx.xx when required" when descending someone below FL180 so they can change it themselves as they cross out of the standard pressure region into the altimeter setting region. I imagine the controller you were talking to gave it out of muscle memory since most of the traffic he deals with is jet traffic descending out of high altitude. Just a guess, but I know I've done it before

[@FlightChops]

That’s a great explanation, thanks for sharing the insight from a controller's perspective. And I'm glad I admitted at the time that I wasn't sure what he meant.

[@marsgal42]

What Nav Canada call a Mandatory Frequency goes by other names in other parts of the world, Air/Ground in England, AFIS in many other countries, and so on. Outside of Alaska it's not a thing in the U.S. My home base (Kamloops CYKA) is such an airport. Kamloops Radio provides advisory information only. Everything is "at your discretion", whether they say it or not. You hear it in my own videos: I call for the advisory then use the information to decide how to approach and land. I'd love to do an instrument rating, but IFR in B.C.'s terrain is a challenge for a normally-aspirated light single.

[@mrsaskriders]

Holy crap, first time I've seen a rewind/review control! Is that fairly new? So helpful and adds a lot of safety! A1 cool.😎

[@FlightChops]

Yeah it's a great feature - I think it's a thing for most modern avionics, but I'm not sure which company invented it and when it was first available. Cory was so excited about the cloud surfing he talked over that call so I missed some of the details.

[@mrsaskriders]

​@@FlightChopsthx for the info. I'm just a simmer, but I use Vatsim to talk to real people, but my avionics wouldn't work with Vatsim. But for real life, awesome.

[@goatflieg]

Another really enjoyable one. How did I not know that FCGA was offline for 8 months?! I knew it was a while, but I guess all's well that flies well. I remember when I made the transition from being intimidated by ATC to looking forward to talking with them. They definitely feel like my friend now, especially in Michigan. Some of the best in the business here. I miss it a lot and can't wait to get back in a cockpit. I might see if I can get my BFR in some IFR conditions, just to experience the joy of breaking out on top. You love having a fast airplane; I will miss having a fast airplane, for sure. I'll send you an email and show you what I've been up to lately.

[@FlightChops]

yeah - There were a couple snags in the fall of 2023 and I took it offline when I had it in Toronto from October to late December; Patched it together enough for one flight to reposition it to the museum in Windsor just before the new year, and then took it off the insurance for the rest of the winter and into the spring when the annual got done; By then my IFR currency was expired. So, it did fly VFR a little bit before this flight in June, but this was technically my first IFR flight in it since October - so that's how I'm coming up with the 8 months of downtime. It really did feel like I was very rusty on this one, but I did A LOT of IFR flying over the summer and felt better ending the 2024 season feeling pretty sharp.

[@edcew8236]

My rule of thumb is never to fly through a cumulus cloud that I haven't examined visually. Sometimes the smart thing to do is to fly VMC under the clouds, even IFR. See 5:22 in your video.

[@FlightChops]

Well... what you're seeing there is my initial departure from the Toronto area before I was cleared to my cruising altitude... That said, I really couldn't have planned to be IFR and be under the clouds for that whole flight; The ceiling got lower further north, and the MEA dictates what altitudes you can fly IFR at... but regardless, I would not have done a trip up there over such rugged terrain at a low altitude - In the event of engine issues I wanted glide time to have more options. There wasn't much convective activity that day, so that's why I decided to go.

[@jamesj2509]

I worked in Canada for a couple of years in the 00s, and found it weird that simply acknowledging a radio call from a VFR aircraft meant they could enter Class D. In ICAO (and UK) rules, VFR flight in Class D requires a clearance to enter and compliance with ATC instructions. Before working in Canada though, my first UK ATC posting had Class E for portions of the TMA, so we would vector IFR commercial traffic through airspace with unknown VFR traffic (the Class E has thankfully disappeared now!). For the ultimate in confusion, the UK has a range of services outside controlled airspace. Basic Service equates to flight following. Traffic Service (VFR or IFR) adds traffic information. Deconfliction Service (IFR only) adds separation from known traffic and attempted separation from unknown traffic, so the reality is that it's seldom given unless the weather precludes unknown VFR traffic.

[@FlightChops]

Thanks for adding your insights on this.

[@jeffbonvallet9480]

No Landing? I feel like the last chapter of the book is missing.

[@FlightChops]

Haha - fair point. I thought of this episode as being about the enroute operations… and it was a vanilla landing with super benign wind conditions at a very quiet, but kinda big airport. Maybe I’ll post it to Instagram with the explanation that it was cut from the KZbin video and some people felt it was missing 😂 Thanks for watching to the end 👊

[@FlightChops]

www.patreon.com/posts/missing-landing-117306316 👊

[@Cavokflying]

The call sign "RADIO" is used in Europe for uncontrolled airfields

[@spdrcr1010]

UNICOM could have a person on frequency at a ground station, I think I've heard them adressed as "radio"

[@CanardBoulevard]

UNICOM is not the same as "radio." In the US, if you call up "radio" you are talking to FSS.

[@AdamLindgrenComposer]

Stinger fits! I like it! Did you mean to cut before the landing? I'm used to you having closing cards and "Keep your Flight Chops Sharp!"

[@FlightChops]

Yeah... it was running long and the landing was uneventful... so I kept it under 25 mins - I forgot the "keep your flight chops sharp VO - you're right. I put the end credits and KZbin end screen cards up though... didn't I? Thanks for watching to the end!

[@FlightChops]

www.patreon.com/posts/missing-landing-117306316 👊

[@mikes5032]

Mandatory frequency (MF) is the term. They are typically (all?) Class E. He needed the separation because he had to wait for the previous airplane to land before he could clear anyone else into the approach. At an uncontrolled class G airport, the pilot typically needs to call in and close before ATC can release anyone else into the airspace. That's why it's important to call as soon as you can (or cancel in the air if it's safe and legal to do so) - just a courtesy to the next person waiting to get in. Also, just a point about cancelling in the air..... in Canada, cancelling IFR and cancelling alerting services (SAR) are different things.

[@FlightChops]

Right... but not all MFs have a radio operator... yeah? Like for instance, Windsor where I fly out of is a Class C control zone, but when the tower closes, the airport is still available to use... it just turns into Class E with an MF that you broadcast intentions on to traffic like you would at any uncontrolled airport, but there's no one answering unless there is other traffic that is also reporting. As for the separation; right - I forgot I can't be cleared into the airspace at all, until the other IFR aircraft cancels. So it's not about if ATC can or can't see us on radar - and it's not just that I couldn't be cleared to the approach, I couldn't have been cleared to enter the North Bay zone at all... right?

[@cfairfull8030]

It’s a flight service station. They have MFs but not all MFs have flight service specialists.

[@mikes5032]

@@FlightChops You're absolutely right. I was referring to the airspace more than the facility. Yep, there are plenty of instances where you might be in an MF but not have any facility on the ground responding to you. I think FSS would be the appropriate term for the facility, but they don't all offer the same services. RCO is another term, I suppose, but that's more in reference to the facility not being located on the field. I'm not ATC, only a lowly pilot - so take what I say with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that when we are cleared for an approach at an uncontrolled airport, they have to protect the airspace. That could include departures as well. Now, does that mean the entire "zone" or just the protected area of the approach and missed? Not sure. Unless it's an MF though, there isn't going to be a "zone" per sé. So, what defines the area to protect? If you fly enough IFR in Canada, you'll eventually get a clearance "for an approach" (any approach at the destination airport). What defines the airspace to be protected in that case? Again, not sure (curious though). Any Canadian ATC out there want to educate us? Stay safe out there, Steve. I do most of my flying in Ontario and western Québec. So maybe I'll catch you on frequency some day.

[@simonhughes-king]

Great to watch you handle the flight Steve. You had the cowl flap open throughout, was that a decision?

[@FlightChops]

Thanks yeah - it was June, so I really don't close that until proper winter ops. It is such a tightly cowled airplane that it does well with that open most of the time.

[@davidarmstrong1657]

ATC here, ask anything (ok maybe not when the frequency is going nuts, but even then if you don’t understand something or are unsure I am happy to clarify - appreciate some ATCs will bark back and i cringe when i hear colleagues do that!)

[@tomweichert4217]

LOL have I got a story about a lost phone and flying for you. but you have to ask LOL!

[@FlightChops]

Now I have to ask. 😂

[@terrancestodolka4829]

Like that I was not the only one with a brain fog moment and asked for a frequency again...!

[@Rourke-Slimer]

All that drama and we dont get to see you stick the landing at the end!? We need closure!

[@FlightChops]

Thanks for watching to the end 👍 - you’re not the only one making this comment - sorry about that. I considered this episode more about the enroute operations and that landing was so uneventful and took a while to play out after an already 25 minute video; but next time I will let it run to the end. I might post that to instagram or make an unlocked Patreon post for those that needed the closure 😂

[@FlightChops]

www.patreon.com/posts/missing-landing-117306316 👊

[@Rourke-Slimer]

@@FlightChops No worries brother. My comment was 90% in jest. It was a good story but just felt like an abrupt ending. All good though. You make the videos how you like to make them. Don't change your video making decisions for anyone. People come here to hear your story. If that means clipping the landing, so be it.

[@RowanHawkins]

About forgetting your phone, amateur radio repeaters pre-2005ish commonly had Auto-patch. Its an expensive feature so most have stopped offering it. Auto-patch would let a user send a series of tones to the repeater ending with the tones for the phone call. Then the landline attached to the repeater would place the call. I used it once around 2004 to call 911 about a drunk driver who crossed over in front of me, went airborne, took out a telephone pole and drove away. Auto-patch could be used for personal calls but the downside was the call essentially became a radio conversation where everone could hear your business.

[@jking755]

Lol

[@FlightChops]

🤷‍♂️

[@johnqdoe]

Your videos don’t flow right bruv

[@AwesomeAngryBiker]

The ads run longer than the video. Lost any future view's from me and lost my subscription 👎👎👎. Please don't say you need the money from ads etc. you can afford an IR and to fly so money is not the issue, just greed 🙄🙄🙄

[@FlightChops]

I work VERY hard to create the best quality aviation focussed episodes that I can. And I'm one of a very few who actually take the time to manually edit the default mid roll ads and remove ~30% of them every time I publish - it is a PIA, but I do it. Regardless, maybe you should just consider unsubscribing from KZbin entirely - ALL creators run mid roll ads because WE HAVE TO - If we don't, the content is punished by KZbin and not shared widely in favour of content that does run ads. As for needing the money... How exactly do you think creators get paid... for creating? Ironically KZbin ad revenue is actually very low in comparison to other revenue streams - It's crowd funding thanks to 1% of the viewers that are happy to support the ongoing publishing, and direct industry partner sponsorships that make niche channels like this sustainable. But again, we don't have a choice to opt out of KZbin's ads if we want to be viable, so it is what it is, and you're incredibly entitled for expecting us to produce free to view content and have no way to recoup costs or generate revenue. I had a look back at some of your past comments, and they were all negative - you add nothing to the community. You're a taker. Honestly, if I had a way to block people like you that go out of their way to be negative and admit how ignorant and entitled they are, from ever being able to see the free to view videos, I'd implement it. Your subscription will not be missed.