Why don’t American Pilots do Spin training?

First time Spinning melts an instrument rated commercial pilot’s mind :)
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In this episode, Jason shoots some great B-Roll of what was honestly not planned to be an episode. I took Chris (an American instrument rated commercial pilot) for his first exposure to Spins (and initial #Aerobatics ).
In Canada, our initial training covers spins (I actually did spins in a glider before going solo).
We captured some great stuff and decided to share from Chris’ point of view.
Jason does Digital Marketing for longtime supporters of the channel, Infinite Flight. He uses Infinite Flight and ForeFlight to brief trips like this one, especially when there will be a high workload into a new place. On this trip, we visited Sporty’s Pilot Shop to meet up with Jon Ostrower and Thomas and Dwight Nield of Yawman Flight. Yawman is coming to market this year with their gamepad specifically designed for flight simulators, the Arrow. The Yawman crew demoed the Arrow using Infinite Flight, X-Plane, and MSFS2020. Future episodes will cover the IFR #Flying to get there, and show more of the Yawman Arrow.
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FLIGHT CHOPS DISCLAIMER:
I am a "weekend warrior" private pilot, I fly for fun with no intentions of going commercial. I have had my PPL for over 15 years, but still consider each flight a learning experience - I generally take detailed notes after each flight to remind myself what went well or what I could do to improve.... Having GoPro cameras to record flights like this is invaluable. I find these self analysis videos very helpful in my constant quest to improve, and am happy to share. Feedback is invited; however, please keep it positive.
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[@Drivr555]

My first spin was accidental, at 9 hours, on my second solo flight. I was practicing slow flight and next thing I knew I was looking at the ground. I was pulling back hard on the yoke (a C172) with nothing happening. A couple of months before, I had read a book entitled Stick and Rudder (1944) by Wolfgang Langewiesche that repeatedly hammered in the spin recovery sequence (PARE=Power off. Ailerons neutral. Opposite Rudder, Elevator forward). After 3 rotations, I remember thinking to myself, "I'm in a spin!" I pulled the power off and was literally standing on opposite rudder. I was still pulling back with all my might on the yoke when the plane stopped rotating. I was still in a stall and it took everything I had to overcome my pulling back on the controls. Once I did, I came out of the stall and I leveled off. It was only then I realized that I still had full flaps in. I cleaned up the plane and flew back to the airport. I told the FBO operator what had happened and he thought that I might have had a cross control accident. Personally, I think I didn't "step on the ball" and allowed the stall/spin to occur. As I continued my training, I found myself afraid to even pull back on the controls to rotate on takeoff. I kept pestering my instructor to go up and do actual spin training. He kept putting me off (I don't think he liked doing spins). I finally said, "If I don't go up and do this (spins), I'm not going to be able to continue training. I have to do this." Finally, he agreed and we went up to do spins. As we entered the spin (intentionally, this time), I said, "this looks familiar' and went through the recovery sequence. We did this a few more times until I was actually comfortable with spins. Since then, I've been an advocate for spin training. Any time I hear of a friend starting flight training, I give them a copy of "Stick and Rudder." In fact, a month ago the son of one of my friends announced that he was starting flight training. I mailed him a copy of Stick and Rudder.

[@Jake-mg8rk]

Cap

[@kristianh.pedersen2]

Hi. I had a somewhat similar exprrience. Im am a gliderpilot and also a former motorplanepilot. I have owened a Cessna 150 Arobat, in which I did a lot of spins, and I have done a lot of spins i various gliders, even competing in aerobatic competitions. All in all I guess I have done at least 200 spin-recoveries. In 2020, while flying as an glider-instructor, the student accidently put the glider in a spin at about 600 feet AGL. I took over the plane and initated the recovery procedure, but even with the aforementioned experience, it took a tremenduos amount of willpower to push the stick forward. All your instincts, every fiber in your body, tells you to pull the stick back to avoid the ground speeding towards you. I very much doubt that I would have been able to recover if I had'nt had practical experience before. I admire your ability to apply your theoretical knowledge in a tense situation. I don't think many pilots would be able to do that, especially at low altitudes. I am appalled that spin-recovery-training is not mandatory for PPL- and Ultralight- pilots, and I am very worried that it seems to be taken out of the glider-training-programme as well.

[@kukajin9560]

what instructor throws a student in to solos at 9 hours

[@FUTUREpilot267]

​@@kukajin9560 especially without showing them what an uncoordinated power on stall looks like, unbelievable!

[@Maynardtkrebs]

Good that you’d read the book. Pulling back is seldom the right response. 172 not a primo spin trainer.

[@Guysm1l3y]

Why? Because the FAA saw that more people were dying in spin training accidents than in spins "in the wild". So they shifted from mandatory spin training to focusing on spin avoidance.

[@FlightChops]

Should I change this title to be more the value of exposure to them or something?

[@daricksta08]

​@@FlightChops Maybe the value from a qualified upset recovery program. Guy referenced more people dying years ago, which was mainly CFIs who weren't current and proficient in spins going up with a student. I'd gladly do spin training with someone who does it all the time, but they aren't common here in the US.

[@Guysm1l3y]

@@FlightChops Maybe. The topic can tend to bring out some "holier than thou" subtext from Canadians. I think acro training is valuable (not just spins but also unusual attitude recovery) but the reasons for ending mandatory spin training in the US was based on concrete numbers.

[@gambitaviation]

@@daricksta08 We’re here if you need us at KARR! We cover normal, flat, accelerated spins, as well as the entire inverted spin series in an Extra 330LX and a Pitts! 😁

[@auburnaviator6167]

Military still teaches spin recovery before we allow students to go to the area solo. (at least that was the case when I was still instructing 10 years ago, USAF. I know the curriculum has changed a lot since I retired)

[@davido1953]

I've always had a phobia about falling so wasn't a fan of stalls, but after doing spins I felt like King Kong. It really improves your confidence knowing that it is something you have seen and gotten out of. After a while it's no big deal, at least in a single engine training a/c.

[@jgbaugh]

Spins are not fearsome, they are fun. Just don’t want to get into one turning base to final.

[@charleswesley9907]

I did a snap roll in my KR2 by accident when applying power too fast in a mush. It then spun and I over controlled . I released the stick and executed a spin recovery. I always was 5000 ' or above . I lost 2000 ft . 5 turns in a 150 trying to recover . Altitude is your friend as long a you dont exceed V speeds .

[@andrewnewman6451]

UK G.A doesn't generally do spin training for the same reason they don't in the states, however for UK Glider pilots spin training is mandatory, as the chances of spinning whilst in a tight thermal are high! My glider flying has served me well in my SEP flying, I highly recommend gliding training for all G.A pilots 👍

[@skriuttutt]

And you have had a lot of spin training fatalities...

[@SpiralDiving]

@@skriuttutt I don't think so. Spin training accident stats?

[@tonyverhulst9948]

@@skriuttutt You have to understand the environment. When I spin students, it's at 3000 AGL or higher after an aero tow. In the UK, you get off the winch at 1200 feet and the instructor says "OK, let's do some spins".

[@skriuttutt]

@@tonyverhulst9948 Well, you even had to do spin training at 1000ft to ”raise awareness of the stress of low level spins”… I also do spin training with students at 3000 or higher. But I seriously doubt the value of that training. Spin avoidance training however is crucial…

[@sahhull]

When I was learning to fly (In the UK).. My instructor at 4 hours said... I think your ready... Took us to 5000ft backed off the throttle and kicked the rudder into a spin. I spent the next 2 hours practicing. Not bad... 3 hour lesson for the price of 1 hour. Having seen a fair few videos.. PPL(H) training is also lacking in the USA.

[@terryfulwider1296]

I'll echo what others have said and say that I'm really impressed with how attentive you were to your passenger. You explained everything really well can constantly asked for his feedback. I know you probably aren't headed down this career path, but you'd make a good instructor! Your love of flying and aerobatics is evident in the way you approach presenting new things to a passenger. It was also neat to see how totally comfortable and in control you were of the airplane and maneuvers. You've come a long way!

[@FlightChops]

Appreciated Terry!

[@RiccBallard]

I had a retired navy pilot as an instructor, he ask me I want to experience a spin. I like an idiot said "sure lets do it". An half an hour later I finial could think clearly again! Didn't regret it though. Good experience in my opinion, it lets you know what you are in for.

[@Bobm-kz5gp]

Well most spins occur in the base to final turn, when spin recovery isn’t going to happen, the spin training just shows you what the aircraft attitude looks like before you die.

[@stubryant9145]

@@Bobm-kz5gp No, it makes us more aware of why we need to stay on top of our energy management and control coordination- and what that flight regime of being on the edge looks and feels like.

[@tonyverhulst9948]

This was good. In a lot of spin training, the instructor pulls the nose way up and stomps on the rudder near the stall. This is not the spin that kills you. At altitude, I simulate getting slow on base because you're distracted by something on the runway. You get to the extended center line and you don't want to bank too steep because you're close to the ground so you 'help' the turn along by adding bottom rudder and.... over she goes. Then I say to the student "if we'd been at 400 feet, we be dead by now". Use your trim so you're less likely to change speed if you get distracted and always stay coordinated. I instruct with glider club and since we spend a lot of time close to stall speed while thermalling, inadvertent spins are not unknown😀. The FARs don't require it but we spin everybody.

[@jimallen8186]

Always stay coordinated? What about slipping?

[@jimallen8186]

@Fidd88 and front slipping? Especially as this thread started with a glider reference.

[@RGD2k]

Also an advocate. It is astonishing to me that it isn't the second thing you are shown and learn about, on your first training flight. I learnt in a glider, and it was. First was a stall (of course) so you know what to 'feel' for just before it happens, and it was done from very near level flight, just edging a little too low on the airspeed. Spins were right after, and it was shown how if you forget to increase your airspeed on a turn, you can easily get to where the inside wing only suddenly stalls. I made that mistake once - turning just a little too tight at 35 knots (I should have increased speed to 40) whilst holding quite a good rise rate in a thermal. And the moment I felt the unexpected-but-recognised movement begin with my stomach, I instantly realized my mistake, and was immediately on opposite full rudder, and stick central and full forward before I could even think. It ended up recoving before a full rotation - perhaps 180 - 270 degrees. I was embarrassed, but the instructer said it was a good recovery. I would not have been able to react 'on gut instinct' so fast if not for the spin training. Not only was each 'manuever' : stall / spin 'demonstrated', but I was made to practise both initiating, and recovering until comfortable with it. It was a Purchacz glider. On a spin in that thing, the motion wasn't so much side-then-down - but rather, violently up-and-over, and then down after you're almost upside down, in about the time it takes to gasp (which you will). Something to do with stall on either wing causing the mid-tailplane to also stall at the same time, so you're tipping backwards just enough that the cockpit being so far forward of COG means you go up at first. We were also flying Blanik's, and we did the same training there too - to be familar with the difference. (Much less violent spins and stalls, but it also recovered slower). IMHO every pilot should to the same during familiarization, to the extent that is safe in the aircraft. MUCH safer to 'get a feel' for when things are ABOUT to go wrong, at a nice high, safe, altitude, then to have to deal with it happening unexpectedly at low altitude. I thought this was just 'common sense' for type familiarization. What I recall being most memorable about that whole course though, was going up with the tug plane. The pilot was an ex-RAAF fighter pilot, so once we'd confirmed our tow had gotten off the cable, he just flipped the nose around and (it seemed) directly down at the end of the runway and went full throttle most of the way there. I thought it was a spin, it was so fast. Pretty much pulled out right into final and landed for the next tow. The impression that he gave was more boredom and impatience than anything else. Fun times. But yeah. It doesn't take very much training to make it muscle memory. The more-extreme-than-a-roller-coaster nature of both manueuvers focusses your attention nicely. The trick is to get through all the training on first exposure (all in the first serious training flight), so you don't have time to get to fear it (or dread it before the next flight) before you've already learnt how to handle it. It goes from terrifying to just embarrassing once you know you can handle it. So far as it being safe for the aircraft to do: Well, then all pilots should learn to fly in an aircraft where it is safe, and never in an aircraft in which it is not. You should not be learning to fly in an aircraft for which such a manuever is an emergency in and of itself - such is just not a safe 'first flyer'.

[@jamesordwayultralightpilot]

​@@jimallen8186 you're not slipping if your already slow. Slips are for slowing down. When you get slow you should transition to coordinated flight until your done turning and on final. Then you'll be focused on slipping if you're coming down too fast.

[@jimallen8186]

@@jamesordwayultralightpilot Wrong. Forward slips are for losing potential energy while maintaining kinetic energy while already at idle or not wanting to pull power so as to leave engines spooled up. Slips are not for slowing down; they’ll add drag for such but that is added stress along the tail of the aircraft. You don’t want to slip if fast due to this added stress. You generally don’t slip in the turn (don’t want to goof and accidentally skid) though such slipping turns can be done. The forward slip’s purpose is to come down fast so don’t understand your statement about focus and coming down too fast. As for side slips, they’re to control crosswinds while having fuselage alignment with the runway. You could go with the crab and kick out though you risk side loads on your gear.

[@richardgreen6857]

Just finished my CPL Steve, had to do a bunch spins to get through that. I can recall taking people out in the 150 I rented years ago to do spins as a Private Pilot. They shouldn’t be scary, they should be understood and managed!

[@foesfly3047]

The paint scheme and graphics on your plane look so good. Seems to me, adding so many sponsor and brand style logos would be aesthetically risky but you (your designer) did an outstanding job with proportions and each location.

[@FlightChops]

Really appreciate that feedback! I worked closely with Sam at Evoke Aviation when we made that design - it was a delicate balance to create an "Honourary Yellow Bird" look that wasn't claiming to be an actual warbird, but would fit in with our museum fleet... while ALSO showcasing the sponsors and partners that made the project possible :). The museum is the "lead sponsor" - the project wouldn't have happened with out the awesome partnership I have with them - so their logo got the wings and tail, and I think it went a long way toward the look I was going for, so it was a win.

[@boggstucson5415]

I did spin training for my private ticket in a 172 in the 80’s. I thought it was very valuable in taming the fear and showing how benign recovery would be at altitude. (And how it is so fatal close to the ground!). I would highly endorse it as part of primary flight training…

[@Lavthefox]

Im so grateful to my instructor who taught me spins in a Blanik Glider. I remember thermalling up to about 5500, and my instructor was like "Ok, so we discussed how to do these a few times, but im gonna do one first. Follow along." I was so confident, so ready... and then next thing I know im on a flying tilta-hurl spinning towards the ground. Turns out, you can say the F word all you want, it doesnt stop the rotation XD!!! After that he asked if I was ok.. I took a deep breath, and said "ok, yep, yep yepyepyepyepey, my turn, lets get it over with." --> One of the best skills I ever learned! really helps with slow flight stall recognition, and as a glider pilot its a great skill to know since we generally perform very tight, very slow air-speed turns when thermaling.

[@FlightChops]

Yes - my first spin was in a glider as well! :)

[@MrGaryweirich]

When I was going for my private pilots, I had about 12 hours. I was solo over the practice area of Broward County, out of North Perry. There was an area below that was the Sportatorium and there was a drag strip out there. I was practicing turning and departure stalls. I had read about spins and how to recover and decided I would never spin an aircraft so pass on and read about something else. Just as I was attempting a turning and departure stall, there was a race ready to begin of two rail dragsters. I was climbing to the right while I was watching the race to the left. I crossed controlled the plane into a spin. With 12 hours, this was a major emergency. Well, I pulled back on the power and stopped the rotation. Pulled out of the spin, leveled off, and uncontrollably shook for quite a while I flew back to North Perry Airport, picked up my instructor Jerry Shephard, and told him we were going up and spin the aircraft until I felt comfortable with it. That was many years ago but thank you Shephard Aviation for all you did for me.

[@mooney-m18x]

This is exactly the reason I was told it was mandatory training prior to obtaining a PPL in Canada. A quick and decisive recovery saves lives after encountering an unintentional spin. For my CPL training in Canada, I was taught to recover on a heading (based on my average rotation recovery time). I am surprised that instructors in other countries imply that "it's good to see what the aircraft can do". For safey as a passenger, I would rather know if the pilot is able to recover from an unusual attitude that many pilots enter unitentionally. My Father's PPL flight test featured a seven turn spin while the examiner watched from the ground!

[@garymcbrearty5845]

I did spin recovery training on my 4th flight. I was lucky in that my introduction to flying was in an old De Havilland Chipmunk with current or ex RAF pilots. I was in the Air Cadets in the 80's so when we were taught to fly it was more a lesson in how to handle an aircraft & it's systems, going straight through introductive 60degree turns into doing stalls and recoveries by the end of 1st flight. Aerobatics of increasing difficulties on the next 2, then the spins, all the time gaining instrument reading experience with the required eyes outside the cockpit workload. The best experience a young teenager could do legally is been thrown about in the sky with a parachute strapped to your backside. Then before my 17th birthday I did my glider solo, a 5 day intense tuition course that was significantly more classroom focused than fun but just as enjoyable, especially the bit where I was viewing an English Electric Lightning passing R-L below us

[@gavincraigie7904]

I was fortunate to get to fly the RAF's EFT whilst on the UAS at Leuchars. Filmed my final flight back in 2012 and thoroughly agree it's a fantastic experience! We had Typhoons in the circuit with us, but certainly would've been interesting with the EE Lightnings. Video below includes a few spins. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mavcZ5J8gc57j8k

[@sahhull]

I did my first spin at 4 hours ... My civvy instructor just said... I think you are ready took us to 5,000ft backed off the throttle and kicked the rudder. I spent the next few hours practicing.

[@sahhull]

@@gavincraigie7904 My uncle was a QRA English Electric Lightning pilot. He then converted to the Jaguar before retiring.

[@garymcbrearty5845]

@@sahhull the Jaaagggg was my 1st underrated jet love, no ever gives it enough praise. The idea to take a front line attack aircraft off airfields near battle central and then operate on & off of grass fields was genius. Watching the landing articulate or rough ground was like no other plane. Brought all weather navigation tech forward a generation jump & future upgrades worked well in the airframe. The Lightning was then and remains now 1 hell of a plane, shame it was a grey streak across a lower laying grey mist cloud base, the whole event being a few seconds long!

[@1dgram]

I'm an American pilot who did spin training as part of my private but that's because I requested it and found an instructor who was very proficient in that area

[@yvad541]

I did the same, my instructor was an old navy fighter pilot, and was more than happy to turn my lunch.

[@frankish5314]

Same here.. Plus after I finished building my RV7 I went to aerobatic school. This made me a much better stick and rudder pilot!

[@dlwilliams76]

Steve, get yourself some ginger gum, made by Seaband. You'll find it where they sell motion sickness aids at the drugstore. Ginger will settle a motion induced nauseated stomach incredibly fast. It's amazing how quickly it takes the edge off after one too many maneuvers. It literally takes seconds once they swallow the ginger flavor in the gum. Bring it with you when taking others on the RV roller coaster ride. You'll still want to knock it off when they say "uncle", but it'll make the ride back to the airport much less anxious for everyone. Give it a try. Nice video by the way. I always try to talk people into upset training, with very poor follow through most times.

[@FlightChops]

Great insights here Dan - Yeah - I've had a few long rides back to the airport with a person turning multiple shades of grey and green as we enter the pattern - I'll look for that gum - thanks!

[@mikearakelian6368]

Have to try that...ginger

[@petergregorypottery5476]

I was really impressed by how you instructed Chris, building from simple manoeuvrers that introduced G progressively to more challenging ones where ground and sky swapped places! By the time the spin was demonstrated, Chris will have been far more comfortable with unfamiliar situations and able to understand and get more benefit from the spin. A really excellent and helpful lesson, and very enjoyable to watch too!

[@FlightChops]

I really appreciate this feedback Peter! It is a fine line as I am not an aerobatic instructor, but I love sharing this and try to give as much context as I can so they can enjoy the experience and hopefully get inspired to follow up with with an instructor

[@dylanbell9651]

We call what they're talking about "flying the T". Mostly to avoid pulling asymmetric G's.

[@TimeWasted8675309]

Interesting, I had no idea this was not taught. Took flight training in Canada in the 80's and spin training was absolutely taught on both the 150's and 152's. Training was focused on two main situations, first to quickly recognize a spin starting (when a wing drops during stall), and then recovery from spins of greater than 270 degrees rotation. Safe if done properly, but a lot of stress on the rudder/elevator/tail if done incorrectly.

[@suprPHREAK]

I’m working on my ppl in a 172 and it is still taught. Valuable, and fun!

[@ADVJason]

I had no idea they don't do spins etc here... I grew up going with my dad flying and can remember doing training for aerobatics. I guess I just thought it was normal to practice that stuff. He was very good about learning what could save his life and make himself a safer pilot so I guess he just must have decided to take the time to learn. It was a lot of fun too. This was back in the 80s. Very cool you were here local. I live maybe 35-40 minutes from Clermont Airport and I hope to take my lessons there one of these days. Lifelong dream for me...

[@ChrisB257]

One thing Steve - I have to think that with that beautiful RV, you rarely if ever lose that sheer excitement being back in it. Any excuse :) I'm just a very aged 'ground only' pilot now but always felt that with spins, a deep understanding of aerodynamics is super important to help with what is needed for good safe recovery, plus of course the characteristics of any specific plane. Sadly, too many folk's first spin can be their last - insufficient grasp of what is actually going on. Enjoyable video.

[@FlightChops]

Glad you enjoyed it Chris.

[@TimToussaint]

Better know which side rudder to push than a deep understanding and push the wrong rudder.

[@jannepeltonen2036]

@@TimToussaint I think a deep understanding includes practical understanding, being able to feel and understand what's going on, not getting surprised by what the plane does when you give it certain inputs. I think that's a different thing from a first principles theoretical understanding which might indeed result in pushing the wrong rudder in an emergency. But that's just my 5 c :)

[@Calvin-xp4qp]

Back in the day, spin recovery was mandatory for every student pilot. The P factor at full throttle really ripped that 152 around. The satisfaction of losing less and less altitude with every attempt was very satisfying. Rudder is your friend. Thank you, Sawyer Aviation!

[@daffidavit]

Agree 100%. I couldn't have said it better.

[@ryanverplank8212]

When I was a student, my CFI asked if I wanted to do a spin and I really didn't want to... We did anyway and it was super valuable. Later did aerobics in a Super Decathlon. All valuable experience.

[@FlyMIfYouGotM]

I understand not wanting a CFI who is not current in spins to do spin training but personally, I would get a CFI who IS current in spin recovery to do the training. In the late 70's, before I soloed, my CFI asked how I felt about doing spins and spin recovery. I told him I wanted to do this before I soloed. His comment was, "You are aware the FAA no longer requires it". I told him that maybe the FAA didn't require it but I did! Upon hearing that, this guy was like a kid in a candy store. It was, great, let's go! For the next hour+ all we did was spins and spin recovery. It was great training and I would do it again with a well qualified CFI. Was I comfortable with it? YES! Especially since my CFI was a current F4 pilot in the KNG so I knew he was not only current but very proficient with this aspect of flight training. With me, what really hit home with this training is how fast you can loose 900' altitude in a spin! You really don't have time to think about what to do if you screw up and get into a spin. You need to immediately recognize it to the point that reaction and recovery is an automatic response.

[@kirklarson116]

I got my PPL in about 1980. My brother was my flight instructor and I did a lot of spin training with him as a brother. Did a 7 turn spin in a Citabria. Learned how to put a reluctant plane (Luscombe) into a spin and recover and learned how to put an easy spinning plane into a spin and recover (Citabria). How many pilots have died because of spinning into the ground..."Moose Spin" or spin from base to final...etc. If pilots were trained in recognition, how to get into one and how to get out of one, we would have a lot less pilots loosing their lives. A pilots license is a" license to learn" but new pilots don't know what lessons they need to learn. We're putting new pilots into pedal cars and saying good luck. Put them as a copilot in the front seat of a Pitts for an hour and get tied up. Put them in a 150 and get stupid. My brother chopped power when I was 80 feet after takeoff in my Luscombe and he said "what are you gonna do now" instant decision making, I headed for a farm field straight ahead and we flew off. Twenty years later in my Maule...this same scenario happened. No damage and no worries. I've lost a couple friends due to spins into the ground. It's sad. It's not required training and that needs to change.

[@lonnieblackwell5107]

I couldn’t agree more and consider the hour of aerobatic training the best money I spent.

[@Peacewind152]

First time I did a spin in PPL training, hooboy... my body did not like. Might have uttered profanity as my stomach yeeted right into my throat. Thankfully my FI did the first recovery. The second one was mine and I did ok, but man did I hate the feeling. However, it was critical training. When it came time for my progress ride to see if I was ready to solo, I had a very bad power on stall that almost became a spin. I was able to recover it because I had that training. I think all pilots should have spin training.

[@jonathancharnes7984]

As acting chief flight instructor of a part 141 school I must give stage checks to monitor student progress. Almost all of them were afraid to put the plane in a full stall. They were saying their instructors had them recover as soon as the stall warning went off. This told me their instructors were afraid to do full stalls with the students. When it came time to give the instructors their standardization flight checks I had each of them do a two turn spin. This was a first for all of them. One instructor told me that when he got his spin endorsement, all they really did was do a full stall and let the wing drop a bit.! Unfortunately the regs do not stipulate how much of a spin must be performed for a spin endorsement. I contacted the FAA hotline explaining that there appears to fraud in the issuance of spin endorsements and that they should better define what is considered a spin. That was several months ago and I have heard nothing from them. When the FAA refuses to do its job, people pay in blood. Like ink the case of t he 737 Max

[@FlightChops]

This is concerning. Thanks for the insights. Please report back if you get any traction on this

[@bobr8766]

Received my SEL in 1985. My instructor was an advocate of “flying the airplane out of any unusual attitudes”. So, I took his loop, spin, roll add on training after my SEL check ride. Best training for new pilot. It gave me confidence and knowing what would happen if you are not paying attention…Great vid!

[@Haniel93]

Im currently in flight training in Germany, and as far as I know, spins count to aerobatics, so in order to legally do spins in flight training the FI needs to be an aerobatics instructor. And of course the airplanes need to be certified for spins, which my training aircraft Aquila 211 is not. But even before seeing this video I thought it would make sense after getting the license to take some hours with an FI and certified plane to experience the spin and train recovery.

[@Ragchewer]

On my second out of pattern solo I was returning to 34L at Van Nuys airport. At 200 feet, with full flaps my Cessna 150 suddenly rolled 90 degrees to the right. Full left ailerons wouldn't stop the roll and I was determined not to go inverted. I dove for more airspeed to regain control and added full power to keep going if I got too close to the ground. At 40 feet the plane snapped back to level, I chopped the throttle and landed. I had such a knee knock that I couldn't taxi, so I shut down the engine and waited to regain my composure. The tower just re-routed traffic for a few minutes until I could get off of the runway. The problem? A C-130 cargo plane landed before me and the tower didn't warn me. Immediately after getting my private license I sought out an aerobatic instructor for enhanced training. I learned so much in a Citabria. 3 turn spins were the first lesson. Not scarry at all--just lots of fun! ALL pilots should get spin and upset training. No exceptions!

[@jessedennerlein9746]

Steve, Great episode. I got my license at Sporty's a few years ago. It was great seeing the home field. I know that practice area well, the Ohio River and the Lake there are very familiar. I know what you mean about being able to do an episode on just dealing with the traffic there. I thought nothing of there being 5 planes in the pattern. We'd often have to wait for 2 or 3 planes to land before we could take off. I remember one time I was doing pattern work and a helicopter crossed at midfield at 500 feet...below me, That was wild. You got very used to dealing, safely, with lots of traffic. My favorite story, though, is from then was my instructor and I were waiting for a plane to clear Runway 4 so we could take it and do a take off. The plane decided to use the whole runway which meant some extra waiting but we understood. Then the plane got on the radio and said "Clermont County Airport Traffic Advisory, there is a cat on the runway!" There was a slight pause and then someone got on frequency and said "Meow!" We just busted up laughing!

[@billolgaau]

Spins, we did them for fun 60 years ago when I started flying in DH82 Tiger Moth biplanes. If you really want a challenge try one hour of Spins IFR in the Dh82 Tiger under the canvas hood with turn & slip (British with the slip on the top & turn on the bottom), Altimeter,Airspeed & no Artifical horizen or VSI. I was lucky to have an ex Australian ww2 relation ex P40 pilot to train me.

[@JamesMiller-q9w]

Before you do spin training make damn sure the plane is certified for spins.....Quite a few trainers need a drag Shute to recover. as old ALPA Instructor Renewal Videos used to show. The old C-150 Trainers would recover from a spin if you just let go of the controls and screamed! On takeoff departure stalls an Instructor kept his right leg ready to punch the right rudder pedal to stop the spin.....That you knew was coming.....

[@waynemayo1661]

Maybe reading Langewiesche's "Stick and Rudder" should be mandatory for all flight students, and including questions about what it teaches on the PPL written and oral.. At least then pilots would have some idea what to, and what NOT to do if a spin occurs--even without formal spin training. Reaching an incipient spin, with proper recovery taught, would be better than avoiding even coming close.

[@CFITOMAHAWK]

Too difficult for us "Mild Maneuvering Pilots". Pass the soy soup.

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

LOL..

[@blue81blue81]

Stupid crazy that many airline pilots have never been past 60 degress of bank! Like many started my flying career as a CFI and our flight school owner encouraged us to do spins with our students in what was then the common 2 seat trainer....C152. Since then I've been a strong advocate of aerobatic/upset recovery training for ALL pilots. A spin or being rolled inverted is very confusing until with the proper training it becomes nothing more than another maneuver. Its invaluable training. Yet the majority of pilots never have it and way too often find out about departures from normal flight the hard way. Sad.

[@donaldsmith3048]

Try a Rudder Stall. cut the power, hold until it stalls and keep it level with the only thing that still controls anything the Rudder! That is fun. Drop flat, keep wanting to use the stick to keep it level, but stick doesn't do anything when stalled! Only rudder! Not sure if it works on all but works great on C152!

[@Jake-mg8rk]

When I got my ppl, I refused any instructor that wouldn't do 1 spin with me. Finally found a real pilot. Instructor do not care anymore it's all about counting hours for them, so sad no Instructor is passionate anymore.

[@dondelchulia3189]

Why? Cause if you are flying in normal parameters the only time you’re likely to be spinning is on takeoff or landing. Either case the recovery window is going to be so small that all I’ll say is good luck to ya.

[@TailHeavyProductions]

...and they wonder why every four days there's a fatal loss of control accident in the US. 😓There's nothing more valuable than actually doing something rather than just talking about it or "simulating" it.

[@kevinwells4986]

Thanks for your channel first of all. Im an avid fan. At WSMR (White Sands Missile Range) we had a small flying club. Our chief instructor was also a stunt pilot instructor, and whereas most flight schools did not encourage doing power on and power off stalls and spins, Wade did insist on this instruction. It didn't take long to learn actually, after of course the first few times where you over correct and spin in the opposite direction... and I was thankful for the instruction. Of course we always practiced at a safe altitude. After mastering spin recovery everything else was pretty much a piece of cake, in regards to flying. Flying C-150's and Piper Cubs didn't really give you many options, but Wade did wing overs and managed to pull perhaps a couple of G's at times. He was a great instructor.

[@JimForeman]

I soloed a sailplane on my 14th birthday. Several months later my pilot father wanted to make sure I learned spins. He did not want to see me kill myself turning final when I was slow, shallow bank and lots of rudder to make the turn. A great way to spin in. He arranged for me to go up in a Citabria with an old pilot instructor for proper spin training. Power on; power off; shallow bank; steep bank; over the top and other variations. We spent over an hour until I could really understand what was occurring and why. We ended on precision recovery doing exactly 1, 2, 3 turn spins both to the right and left. Probably some of the best month ever spent in my pilot training.

[@sky5jump]

Well I was in a 172 with a bent firewall on my first lesson. My first stall and we went over like a stone. Caught my CFI off guard but he recovered nicely. It was one of 17 aircraft on the line. My first solo flight to the practice area was in the same aircraft. Guess what happened? I believe that the first lesson learned of what the aircraft felt like as I started into into phase one incipient may have saved my life. I knew right away what was happening. I went on to be a CFI and I offered everyone of my students the option to see and feel what was happening with the aircraft.

[@kiwiflyer2190]

I remember doing spin training in a 152 aerobat for my instructors rating back in the 90s. I still remember initially struggling to determine the direction of the spin, as it's very disorienting. The turn indicator is definitely worth its weight in gold.

[@randymichel459]

I did it in a J-3. It was a lot of fun and a valuable skill gained.

[@nuchbutter]

Dude. We totally did. Ad Nauseum. But that was at NAS Whiting Field, in T-34C Turbomentors (can you believe that frat boys and sorority girls got to solo in an aerobatic, turboprop after only 13 flights?) So, yes, I was shocked that the title implies spin training is not part of the the civilian US PPL! Had no idea...

[@FlightChops]

Right... so we don't have this wrong.., correct? It is surprising that most pilots going the general aviation route won't get any sort of spin training / exposure for a long time / if ever... I think Chris is representative of a typical U.S. based civilian pilot, yeah?

[@nuchbutter]

@@FlightChops I dunno, honestly. I solo'ed in that turboprop in 1988, and never touched a Cessna until last year. I retired from the Navy back in '15, with almost 6000 hours. I'm going for my Helo CFI Military Conversion right now, and have just completed my first year of crop dusting in an Air Tractor 402 back home in Kansas. All I can tell you is that we spun in Naval Aviator training until our eyeballs were plastered to the canopy. I remember having to be absolutely perfect in our procedures to get into and out of a spin before they'd let us solo, and if we couldn't do that, we'd get washed out of flight training, and get sent to drive boats...

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

You need to have done spin training as a CFI in the United States so a lot of pilots have who are instructors

[@GaryMCurran]

And after you do your spin training for CFI, how many times do you teach that to your students? This is, in my opinion, the important question.

[@engiflight]

Always fun watching your aerobatics in the RV-14. Definitely glad to see you sharing the experience of not flying straight and level! Definitely have had me look at the RV-14 as a future aircraft for sharing acro with friends. Definitely would be fun to have you at KHWY sometime to see the aerobatic community at that field.

[@olgreywolf9688]

Interesting ... just to check statistics, overall .... on general AV accidents ... vs. the date/days when the vaunted "FAA" decides to 'dumb down' aviation training .... AGAIN!!! More important to sell airplanes, than to produce genuinely qualified aviators!!

[@BigDickMark]

Can you cite a source for any of what you wrote?

[@superpilotish]

Great vid, Steve! And a little advice to pilots that might wanna try this solo without any training- don't do it. I've had a couple of students freeze up on me once it started spinning. It's rare, but can happen. I'm sure a local instructor would be more than happy to do a few rotations with ya.

[@FlightChops]

👊

[@SVSky]

Aerobatic training was the single biggest confidence booster I've had in my short flying career. Competing in IAC and being around skilled pilots has made a world of difference. Last comp we took 8 pilots out sharing a plane, of which I was the highest time with 100hrs PIC, and everyone flew amazingly. It's not for showboating, you definitely get better.

[@widnyj5561]

Interesting that powered pilots can go without even a single spin in the whole career, where glider pilots have to do full course (spin, static and dynamic stalls, spirals, every single type of launch failure executed and landed safely) every 90 days. That's of course understandable, as during thermalling it's quite easy to develop a spin (flying quite slow and >45deg of bank), but doing literally 0 practise is quite suprising.

[@FlightChops]

Yeah... I started with gliding - fully agree.

[@edcew8236]

On the right side screen, you can swap the attitude indicator and the MFD screens, so that the right side MFD is more readable from the left seat. Also, if you make two SD database cards (takes little extra time), you can update both databases (left and right) at once.

[@derekromkey4588]

I loved my spin recovery training flights!!

[@yin1752]

I have my EASA PPL(A) in Germany, I have 1 hour spin training. That was fun and I can do more practice of recovery! But after I hour training, I couldn’t eat anything😂😂😂😂

[@georgew.5639]

I flew spins and loops and experienced everything else demonstrated in this video. I thoroughly enjoyed it with no stomach issues whatsoever. I’m hoping to do it again too. I was flying with an instructor in a Citabria.

[@FlightChops]

Great to hear!

[@1hornet1]

I love the spins baby! I learn to fly in a Citabria. Easy in and outs. Fun fun fun!

[@FlightChops]

Yes they are!

[@hawkdsl]

I think you missed your calling as a flight instructor. For the causal aviation fan, Spin recovery is not the same thing as a flap spin, which is almost impossible to recover from.

[@FlightChops]

I've only ever experienced "normal" spins in regular GA planes... Not sure how you'd even get into a flat spin with out like a twin engine sort of asymmetric power scenario? More advanced stuff like inverted, accelerated, (and I think flat?) spins I've done in things like the Pitts S2B and Extra 300

[@formulaphoto]

I think the biggest thing I took away from this episode is the fact that there is a "better barf bag". Had to search Sporty's after seeing him pull it from his sleeve haha. Great episode as always and I echo the other comments about how well you worked through it all.

[@oyveydetoymeny]

I got failed on my commercial check ride many years ago on a eight around pylons when I cross controlled to maintain a pylon on a wingtip, hit a pocket of turbulence and got a stall horn with a ball in the corner. Only when I went for an instructor’s rating in my home country did I undergo spin training and understand in retrospect. As an instructor I offered spin training on a voluntary basis and I think it should be re-introduced as part of every curriculum.

[@FlightChops]

Thanks for adding your experience / insights here!

[@cantechit4186]

The Garmin ESP is amazing - what a game changer to really be my extra protection. This would make the upgrade alone worth every penny IMO. As a new pilot I want that extra safety….

[@christiangraves9340]

I had to do spin training and get an endorsement for CFI which i am currently doing, totally fun, not as "extreme" as i thought it would be

[@SoloRenegade]

I did spin training immediately after PVT checkride, and then got tailwheel. I asked to do it, so we did it. Doesn't have to be required to do them.

[@mannypuerta5086]

There is no experience like REAL experience. America has unfortunately dumbed down some previous training requirements like spins and slow flight parameters, but then other countries are also guilty of dumbing some things down. Acronyms and mnemonics, by themselves, are not a replacement for real experience. When I was a CFI for the Japanese a long time ago, even though their JCAB pilot certification requirements paralleled ours, spins were required. Was that requirement practical for a fledgling airline pilot? I submit that the basic knowledge was a foundation for their future simulator upset training later in their careers. It could be argued that training for recovery from an incipient spin is adequate, but I feel that training for the real thing should involve experience with the real thing. If the fear is that CFI’s are killing people during spin training because their skills are rusty or lacking, then I say that’s the problem that should be resolved, not the dumbing down of the certification requirements.

[@JediOfTheRepublic]

Well first, they haven’t dumbed down anything they just changed the direction from spin training to stall/spin avoidance which is a better skill to have them some spin training that won’t help you jack shit when you are 800 feet above the ground in a spin. As for slow flight, they only changed it to the bottle of the green arc because you shouldn’t be flying with the stall horn blaring in slow flight. There is no need. No one is landing with the stall horn blaring until after the numbers. So before you open your mouth, how about you actually know what you are talking about

[@mannypuerta5086]

@@JediOfTheRepublic Ahh…the fascist approach. Very convincing argument.

[@russbell6418]

@@mannypuerta5086 At least he's a Jedi... My white helmet doesn't measure up. Or line up with my eyes.🤣🤣

[@watermelonwonders5213]

The Navy still does spin training.

[@Journeyman1642]

WAS THIS RV-14 CHROME AT ONE TIME PREVIOUSLY?

[@FlightChops]

For the first year, yes.

[@clarencewiles963]

@@FlightChops 🎉warbird yellow good choice.

[@MrCaneast]

In 1978 I began taking flying lessons in a new Cessna 150 Aerobat, by an instructor who ate and breathed aviation. He was a ex bush pilot. He taught us ground school and went up with for flight instruction. On my first time up, he taught me how to recognize a spin and spiral. He explained that pilots may get into them at times and wants me to know what to do so not to panic and how to get out of one. The first time I went through one it was like "now I know what it's like to die in a plane crash". He remained very calm through out it while explaining turning the throttle back to idle and pulling back on the yoke until the stall. It was like the plane was standing on its tail. Then he kicking left rudder so the plane would dive to the left. This brought us into the nose dive while the earth was spinning round in front of us. He calmly said next to push right rudder until we were out of the spin, then pulling back on the yoke until we level out. Then when the plane reached it's airspeed, we would add throttle and continue flying. The very second time I was up I was in the left seat and he guided me through a spin. We did that at the beginning each time I went up. It became second nature to me and I became accustomed to the feel of the plane in other instruction. At that time when we went for our finals, we had to perform the full spin and spiral without losing a minimum number of feet in order to obtain our private pilots license. I think it keeps less experienced pilots from panicking and wanting to pull back on the yoke to prevent the fall.

[@9999AWC]

I loved spin training, especially when I was the one initiating it during my CPL! Super fun!

[@watashiandroid8314]

I was very fortunate that my instructor demonstrated a spin to me a few hours into training (well, before 10 hours). Despite knowing all the book knowledge and having seen videos on KZbin, I froze while he demonstrated it. Made me realize that I wouldn't know how I would respond to a situation until I experienced it. Did many spins after that and eventually aerobatics. I recommend it to every pilot. Interesting how your watch interfered with the control of the aircraft. Have you made any changes in light of that? That could be a section of a video about the importance of cockpit cleanliness or the risk of flight control jamming. It makes me feel better to see that even the pros (yes, I'm calling you a pro) plop it on every once in awhile. Thank you for the enjoyable high quality videos! Happy flying!

[@1over137]

Never spun a real plane, but I used to love spinning RC planes. Had a Decathlon model in which I over powered the motor a little so when you got it all "departed" you still had prop wash on the controls and rudder to make it do mad stuff and basically throw it around "bashing it". Upside down at 2 feet up, loops with 2 foot recovery. Spins with 10 foot recoveries. I have one RC plane I own which I've never rolled, looped or spun. Simply because it was never designed or built for G or aerobatics, big long broad thick lifting wing carrying 1kg of batteries and cameras. I put it through it's emergency paces bringing it into a stall with positive elevator and found it actually just "settled" and began to drop height whie remaining + attitude and wings level, just a little snaking and I chickened out and smoothly as possible applied power and released the elevator load. I later learnt the hard way that slamming the throttles open at 6 inches off the deck in the flare, near stall is a bad idea, plane flipped upside down and nosed in in 1/4 second. Prop torque. Wing overs are about as far as I've gone with it, loaded 8s with about 80* bank angle "over the top" and maybe 3G and the wings where curved excessively upwards even with a double full length carbon fibre wing spar! Some vids on my channel.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

I learned how to spin to simply remove some fear of spinning. I even did it on my private practical (prolly couldn't do that today!) because my examiner was known to teach all of his students to spin (and recover.) I'm writing this before watching, so that this won't be colored by what I see: Spins should not be taught as a mandatory item. Stall avoidance should be all that's needed, and burn it into the prospective pilot's brain. No stall, no spin.

[@FlightChops]

Good stuff - I'm curious to hear your thoughts after watching.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

@@FlightChops I've no issue with serious aerobatic training, or even just the fun flights as you did. But what you don't practice all the time becomes dull in the mind. A "one-off" aero flight is, to me, "introduction to what it feels like shortly before you become an NTSB report." Spin training taught me that staying far from from stall is still the best method. It also taught me that the "life saving" control is the rudder. Not that I haven't done light aero, and lots of unusual attitude recovery, but it's different if you know it's coming. Keep up the good work; I've flown into I69 a bunch, a friend kept his plane there (mine was at KLUK, "sunken Lunken", ten NM to the west, until I sold it. I'm still deciding on whether I should get back in the seat.)

[@udowish]

spin training is still mandatory in Canada PPL, while I understand the perception of the move away in the USA, I think ALL pilots should do some basic spin training at the PPL level

[@richardfrey3716]

I'm an American and I asked for and received spin training from a buddy in his PT-22 and again several years later in a Citabra ~~~~I got lots additional spin practice in T-34's, T-6's (SNJ-5) and learned how to correct a spin while doing high speed turns, It worked out to be a snap Roll....It's a confidence builder and should not be abused !!!!

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

Many spins happen when climbing at high altitude with minimum power due density altitude. Specially at Vx, hit turbulence, they stall and spin, with full power it become a spiral, break the wings.. Or pull up in fear and never recover from the stall spin. Many like that. What are you afraid of ?

[@russbell6418]

Okay, in World War I. Once we learned that you can't spin when the rudder is coordinated that became a non-issue. Now the primary danger is base to final turns, watching the dirt sneaking up, forgetting to feel the airplane sliding away from the rudder...

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

@@russbell6418 yes, you can spin even while coordinated. From a steep turn stall, or a strong side wind. Then you, not spin trained apply mostly aileron to recover, It will spin, specially if a left turn.

[@quietlyworking]

Spectacular video! 😍Few things as beautiful as an open curious mind filled to overflowing. Thank you for bringing this one to us.🙏

[@JWSmythe]

In the early 1990s, we did spins in the first couple weeks. I was picking things up quickly, because I had been playing the primitive flight simulators. So I knew how all the things worked together, I just needed to get the seat of the pants feel. Spins were the single most fun things I did there. It's a rollercoaster with no track. If I do it right, we're alive. If I don't, we may not be. Of course, my instructor was there, and he didn't want to die. We did what you described as the "hammerhead" repeatedly. He thought I was funny on the first one. Most people freak out. I was smiling and giggling, and asking to do it again. :) I really wish that I had the time and money to keep flying. If I had, I would have probably gotten myself a decent aerobatic aircraft, just so I could fuck around with the edge of the envelope.

[@rileyk99]

We do spin training for our flight instructor training. Basically it used to be required but more people were dying in training than actual spins, so we now teach stall awareness and recovery.

[@danahearn656]

I was lucky enough to go through Navy spin training 1st in the T-34C then the T2C, to include inverted spins. I can’t imagine not having this experience.

[@briandodson3520]

Spin training should still be mandatory. I used to take a 150 up to 5000 ft & do 3 turn spins all the time. It not only increases your confidence but helps in handling the airplane.

[@FlightChops]

That’s my thoughts too… 🤷‍♂️

[@briandodson3520]

Part of it is learning to trust your airplane's capabilities as well.

[@philippehendrickx1109]

When I learned to fly my instructor ( an old ex military guy) put me through spin and unusual attitude training. I also had that training when learning to fly gliders. I feel it made me better pilot.

[@paulis7319]

I’m an American pilot and my first instructor introduced me to a spin on our third training flight in 2001, pre-9/11. I also did a spin on my second solo flight, and have received more aerobic training since then. I was shocked when spin training was relegated to CFI trainees only. That’s just fk’n stupid. Pilots should know how to fly.

[@johnmajane3731]

Spins were removed from the requirements many years ago in the US. They are required for a CFI candidate to be trained in them. When I got my initial license in 1978 spin training was not part of my training. I had an instructor teach me afterwards in a C-150 to do spins. I feel it is important that an individual knows how to recover since the normal reaction would be to use aileron which just makes it worse. I enjoyed doing them. The C-150 spins very nicely and recovers quickly. I did spins in a PA-38, it wrapped up quick and made a lot of oil canning noises. The Champ was very docile as was the cub. I did spins in Gliders and they were pretty gentle also,

[@zappatx]

We did spins over Addison airport on my introductory flight before training.. That was around 1987.

[@marthakrumboltz2710]

I had to stop the clip @ the very first, when he said,”my name is chris m been flying for about 10yrs. Have a commercial license and have never spun an a/c.”Never cease to shake my head when thinking back during training. Since most fatalities occur in slow flite-spin, why wouldn’t you @ least learn what a spin looks and feels like? Check gear down, cleared to land anyone?

[@marthakrumboltz2710]

Doesn’t even know what a wingover is?

[@FlightChops]

None of this is Chris’ fault - it is unfair to suggest otherwise. We thought this was a good story to tell, because Chris represents a large majority of U.S. pilots… So we were inspired to share this one to add to the obviously contentious conversation.

[@russbell6418]

@marthakrumboltz2710 There is also a generation at the FAA that is more knowledgeable toward electronic flight instrumentation than toward the physics of flight. In the near term, we must take responsibility for our own training syllabus. Great video. Glad you're demonstrating/teaching.

[@ebaystars]

Why are they talking so much? when i did my spins in UK at 10 hours or so i did it in brighton over the sea and came out near my house with my wife and kids in it, what's the big deal why dont the US pilots go to a roller coaster park for day first I'd be more worried about a tail wheel snapping off as Ive never done a tail wheel landing. PS where are the "limited panel" instruments (basic panel mechanical) are you telling me that you rely fully on all glass displays even in IMC at night WTF ? Ginger pre-flight redices risk of pax and girls puking up all over your nice shiny shoes

[@michaeljbreault]

I remember the first day I did spin recovery with my instructor. WaIt was a bit overwelming at first. The most memorable part was how happy I felt being back on the ground later that day. I felt like a had a new lease on life.

[@TheJustinJ]

How to exit a spin: 1: Let go of the stick 2: Push on the heavy pedal. 3: reduce power (momentarily) if needed.

[@garykendall1376]

Back in the 60's my instructor had me doing spins in a C150, then in his Citabria. Learn to fly unusual attitudes, Later, in the 80's I had to show the instructor how to spin the C152. This, spin training, should be required. There would be fewer stall/spin accidents today. FLY THE DAMN AIRPLANE!!!

[@vr6chrisvw]

"Flying the T" on the stick is how we learned to do Acro in pilot training. That helped me not induce pitch and roll at the same time.

[@nemo227]

I did spins, loops, snap rolls in a Citabria -- as a passenger. About 40 years ago out of Salinas, California. There was only one moment of anxiety. As we taxied out to the runway, I was sitting behind Lindy (yeah, that was his name), with my parachute and seat belt fastened and I noticed the pull-pins on the door hinges. It was at that time I realized that, if something broke, the big guy in front of me would have to pull the pins and clamber out all while the plane would likely be tumbling through the air and finally I might be able to get out. Was it fun? HELL YES!

[@jep1103]

I did spin training in the UK....one thing it does teach you is don't get into one...i hated it and thankfully never experienced one unexpectedly. Every year I would purposefully book a couple of hours to kerp my hand in. Everyone should do it.

[@ewthmatth]

Couple hours to what?

[@johnmckenna8989]

...I cannot believe spins aren't part of basic flight instruction in the U.S.A. ......I learned to fly in my own Ercoupe AND had to do spins in a Cessna 172 to receive my pilot's license...(CF-RGD , Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario)........My instructor was a bush pilot, so I put in 45 hours to final flight test, not 35 as at a flight school....but I did a lot more 'touch and goes' using every short field in the area....

[@erikisberg3886]

I did my first spin training way back in the 1970:s, it was mandatory. In my club we do it yearly. For some reason it does not seem like we had much of a safety problem here in Europe regarding this, at least not during basic training at decent altitude. The accidents I am aware of during intentional spins have mostly been during low altitude practice and competition type flying etc. I would feel very unsafe not having that experience, it is a little like learning to bicycle. To react correctly practice is needed, just upset recovery practice does not really seem to cut it.

[@aviationgroupie1433]

Loving how you teach Steve. Calm, cool and pacing for the person who is with you. Also loved the little Canadianism when for the roll, you told him to "give-er" 😄Great video and thanks for sharing.

[@walterweigert9840]

I´m just wondering why these pilots were diving rigs if the canopy opens forwards. In case of an emergency how do they get out of the plane? Cheers from NE Patagonia, Argentina.

[@FlightChops]

Have a look top left of the panel, there is an emergency canopy jettison handle.

[@walterweigert9840]

@@FlightChops Hi Sir, thank you for answering. I didn´t know such a handle even existed, otherwise I´d never posted this silly comment. I´m following your channel since you did the "pond" crossing with Martin and Micke. Cheers from NE Patagonia, Argentina. (a dream place).

[@FlightChops]

All good - there are no bad questions.

[@072570ppft]

I asked an instructor to teach me to spin a Skyhawk. He was thrilled to do it. We could only get half a turn though.

[@FlightChops]

Haha - yeah - I’m too light to spin a 172.

[@chrisschreiber5000]

​@@FlightChops you have to bump the power and really kick the rudder at the top of the stall

[@buckmurdock2500]

The post ~1973 skyhawks are horrible for spinning.

[@davidshepherd5511]

The aileron roll is quite standard in moderately aerobatic aircraft, pull to your feet touches the horizon, check and full aileron either left or right as desired. Whenever I practiced aerobatics under instruction I would always seek to see what it looked like when things went wrong, that way I could be sure not to push things too far and thus avoid getting into trouble when I was on my own. Spin training is a great way to focus the mind, especially on something with a bit more performance such as the BAE Bulldog. 11,000 feet rate of decent with the potential of either going flat or inverted if the entrance was not correct and the pilots notes saying, if not recovered by 3,000 feet - bail out!

[@nyrubin]

CFI have to do a spin recovery on 172s as fun as it seems I definitely don’t think it’s for everyone 😂

[@marsgal42]

I did my (Canadian) PPL spins in a Cherokee with a competitive aerobatic pilot in the right seat. It was an enlightening experience. A plane can do this. And *I* can make it do it! Even if it meant flying home with the window open and a barf bag on standby in my lap... 🙂🙃 🙂🙃 🙂 My Musketeer isn't certified for intentional spins, alas.

[@tstanley01]

They tried that...more pilots were dying in spin training than they were in inadvertent spins...Your normal CFI in a 30 year old 172 isn't where you need to do it...I did my spin training in a Super Decathlon with an aerobatic pilot with 50-60 years of experience...I about puked after the first lesson...she took my money, then jumped in the plane to do it with the next guy...she was almost 80 years old and weighed about 85 lbs...She is one of those fixtures of aviation in our community (Houston Texas)...Anytime people hear her voice on the CTAF they say hi to her by name...

[@mikemorgulis9657]

Great episode and great to have Chris take controls after a maneuver to get his head and gut back in the game. As a glider pilot and instructor we bank steeply at lower speeds in thermals, getting close to spin territory, so we train and practise spin recognition and avoidance, and do incipient and full spin recoveries both with skidding turns and coordinated turns where the speed comes back and AofA increases. I find that trust in the other pilot also helps greatly with unusual attitude flying, keeps the yellow flags and helmet-fire at bay.

[@dwightlyon3643]

PRACTICING SPINS? Same reason for practicing Stalls( fun to do) or flying under the Hood ( surprised my instructor because I was always grabbing the hood when our main lesson was over). You may end up in a situation where you need that knowledge . hopefully not, but people have died because they ended up in situations they were not trained for!