Flintlock musket versus flintlock rifle

[@britishmuzzleloaders]

A great and comprehensive look at the two weapons! ....Always a pleasure! Funny enough, I'm about to embark on a similar project with two of mine!

[@SpruceReduce8854]

I think my favorite thing about your channel is that you do in depth analyses of muzzleloaders, which is only done by a handful of channels, and you are the one covering the more obscure ones.

[@MrBigCookieCrumble]

Very informative, nasty wounds! Imagine the nerves of steel you'd have to have to stand in line and hold formation, while trading volleys between your formation and the enemy, it goes against every instinct.

[@neilkorchinski1006]

Religion and rum went a long way.

[@christopherreed4723]

That, and endless training and drill that emphasised standing firm, going through the steps to recover, reload, and fire your weapon, and, above all, under no circumstances think for yourself. It's why people like Sir John Moore in Britain had such a hard time convincing their superiors to listen to their crazy ideas that common soldiers should - *gasp!* - use their initiative and act on their own, without an officer or Sergeant bawling orders for every little step in their ear. I recall reading a quote from someone at the time (I forget who) to the effect that, if soldiers were to start thinking for themselves, not a one would stay in the army.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@neilkorchinski1006 Also sergeants who were more terrifying than the enemy.

[@neilkorchinski1006]

@@brucetucker4847 - That's why they carried a pike. Not to fight the enemy with, or defend the flag, but to poke reluctant soldiers in the bum.

[@neilkorchinski1006]

Woops, I skipped back a century. Should've read the rest of the thread before responding...

[@nejiniisan1265]

As an engineer, I loved the energy vs distance plots, that's was excellent!

[@thedreamtime3624]

"aS aN eNgInEeR"

"SENTRY'S GOING UP!" oh wait not that engineer

[@bismarckbismarck6352]

He back, he got hat, but most importantly, he looking like a snack

[@capandball]

:D

[@mannys9130]

Legendary

[@yaujj65]

A good meme, yet not changing and maintains its humour. Well done.

[@hannibalburgers477]

you are geh and so am i

[@VashGames]

When you said "These two old ladies" near the start, I imagined an irked "Well excuse us" coming from the guns.

[@Tom19142]

Well, imagine of the guns were two feminists... they would start with harassment, sexual assault, sexism etc.

[@peteraugust5295]

I love that you are not to proud to show that it took you several shots to get a perfect hit haha. Great Video, as ever!

[@markhatfield5621]

Even better than his usual videos which are already very good.

[@Polorigolo35]

If you watch closely the shot at 10:00, you can see the rotation of the bullet embedded as a groove along the path of the cavity. It also seems like the rotating bullet is tearing the gel apart from the center instead of just "pushing it" like the musket does. Amazing shooting and great ballistic report as always, thanks!

[@BlackPowderTV]

Great video! Thanks for the in depth tests!

[@tomthomas4444]

Very impressive I had no ideal these old weapons were this powerful and accurate. Great video very informative.

[@allangillis9159]

I greatly appreciate the hard work and preparation that goes into your videos!

[@praevasc4299]

13:00 - this is a great indicator why early firearms outcompeted the bow, despite being much slower to reload. If the enemy charges towards your line, you want them out of action immediately, and not ten minutes later due to blood loss.

[@SNOUPS4]

One of your best videos!

[@duffysullivan2794]

"If either ball hits you, you will die. If not from the impact immediately, then from infection the days following." Pretty grim news! The only real drawback to these weapons was their reload sequence.

[@hazcat640]

Excellent video. Informative and well filmed and edited.

[@helidude3502]

An excellent video for any that would fail to take these weapons seriously. Great data for those of us that will use them.

[@BTillman48]

VERY impressive with methodical tests and detailed analysis. I'll share widely with my CCs.

[@Omnihil777]

Wonderful old guns, and like always, an excellent video! Thank you for that, I'm always delighted when I see there's a new video from capandball-channel on, makes my evening!

[@kirkmorrison6131]

Wow, those who stood and fought those battles have my utmost respect

[@tjo4087]

Awesome video! I dont know of any other videographer that gives us so much cool history along with useful technical data with black powder/muzzle loaders. I love muzzle loaders but so far only have modern in-lines using pellet propellant. I just dont have the time right now for the extra steps. Thanks to you for all you do!

[@marthinusdawidvanrooyen2508]

Thank you for your efforts, sir. Your videos never disappoint.

[@hellequingentlemanbastard9497]

Now this was truly a enjoyable and informative Video.

[@grendelgrendelsson5493]

That was a very interesting video and I am very jealous of you spending time at the range with such historic guns!

[@opalprestonshirley1700]

Excellent presentation. This is the first time I've seen musket and rifle balls into gel, quite the eye opener. Very nasty wounds. Thank you.

[@ENIGMAXII2112]

OOHHHH!!!! YES!!!!! A new video/ talk from capandball! Excellent work Sir. Thank you again for this..

[@paulmarshall4468]

That was an outstanding video. I now understand the trade offs of the infantry tactics of that day much better. Thank you. I have learned a lot. Now I want to save up and put the jager shutzen in my collection!

[@notsosilentmajority1]

Excellent video. Being new to BP it is amazing at just how effective they really were.

[@forksandspoons7272]

Hello, I've recently discovered your channel and am enjoying it very much. I'm an amateur historian and know virtually nothing about the history you often talk about. I'm learning a great deal. Keep doing what you do, my friend. Cheers Jim

[@johndeeter4030]

He was so good with that musket even the table decided to roll over and die...lol Great video sir..

[@tinlizzie37]

Thanks for your demonstration of the rifles, and of your shooting skills, with knowledge of firearms from around the world.

[@neilkorchinski1006]

I'm amazed that anyone survived those wounds. But they did. Reminds me of Nathan Bedford Forrest getting shot in the back with a Springfield.

[@MrFirmbottom]

The human body is an amazing machine.

[@FeedMeMister]

Averages mean some win exceptional odds. Also it much depends on where and how you get shot, eg: if it avoids bone, lung or heart and you're slim, fit and young, and you didn't land in mud or go into shock as a result... And so on, the odds are at least not completely against you.

[@neilkorchinski1006]

@@FeedMeMister - I know, but point blank in the back with a .58 Springfield... I'll leave that off my "to do today" list.

[@Chris-yg3sp]

Comme toujours un excellent travail, et très instructif. Toujours un plaisir de vous écouter.

[@jeffe.9904]

Great Video Cap! Thanks for taking The Time To Entertain & Teach Us!!

[@torbjornlindberg]

I was looking online for a Book on blackpowder rifles, found a coming release. The authors name looked very hungarian Balazs Nemeth. Would you recommend This Book?:)

[@capandball]

Anything can happen. :)

[@iaminyourwalls2211]

I love that they make like four separate sounds as they fire.

[@Legitpenguins99]

Thank you. Had this idea for you for years now and it was long overdue

[@Yeeren]

I love the highly scientific approach, definitely subscribing

[@yupyup4209]

Thanks for showing us such a good comparison of the two!

[@jozefmiklovic9787]

Than You very much. Your videos are exceptionaly good.

[@fhorst41]

Imagine being the guy behind the front line guy who caught a through shot, and being even more contaminated by what the ball carried into you from inside of him...

[@sabo55]

You lucky buggar, love your work.

[@craigcanales5589]

Just found your KZbin channel. Very informative and well done. Thank you.

[@ToreDL87]

Another excellent addition! Flintlock smoothbores are actually not that inaccurate even at 100+ meters with "historical loads" if you load them like civilians would, with patched ammunition. Today you can probably get even better accuracy using modified shotgun sabots.

[@capandball]

Next step will be longer range accuracy.

[@eVVigilance]

I hit an 8" gong at 100yd on my 1st outing with a East India Co percussion musket. 50yd groups (when I did my part) were a couple of inches. The gun definitely shoots better than I do, and I was surprised. Glad we have skilled shooters like capandball to show us what these old guns can REALLY do!

[@greglaroche1753]

Great video. Good that you shot the gelatin at 50 meters. Too many videos of shooting gel, shoot the gel too close. Thanks!

[@ToreDL87]

Agreed, way better to see what's going to happen, at the distances they would have actually historically engaged.

[@capandball]

@@ToreDL87 With the musket that was really a waste of powder... i fired at least 15 shots to get the two hits at the right spot. :)

[@SlickSixguns]

Agreed a true comparison

[@FeedMeMister]

@@capandball Not a waste at all, good data is forever good data.

[@paulcallicoat7597]

@@capandball I would have used the hold point off of your first paper target to get a better chance on the gel.It was obviously printing low and to the right of center.You could have drifted the front sight in the direction you needed and held a bit higher(kentucky windage).I had scopes and rear sights get knocked off during hunting and still brought meat home when I seen where the bullets were actually going and compensated.

[@shotforshot5983]

Excellent demonstration and visuals! Thank you!

[@terrancedull1393]

I was amazed that within the 50 meters ... both are nearly equal with the musket being slightly better in the gelatin.

[@geffreybolster3780]

Good job! It I S a lot of fun! I love firing for ranged accuracy, aim point/hit point etc. A 1'' pine board layered target is my favorite.

[@beatlebassmaniacjp8311]

Every time I watch your videos it get me pumped for bp I just took a doe, w a black powder yesterday

[@MrFirmbottom]

It never fails to impress me how powerful those old firearms can be.

[@mattigator600]

13:00 can see the exited bullet bounce back into the view?? Or table debris 🤔

[@candidmoe8741]

the table fell dead better than most actors in movies

[@b.griffin317]

9:30 re contamination: next time you do a gelatin video (or even a follow-up to this one!) put some layers of fabric simulating a contemporary uniform (material, thickness of fabric etc.) in front of the gel and shoot through it.

[@sawyere2496]

Nasty

[@misterandersson5645]

That would be nice. I would also like to see someone put pork ribs or similar into the gelatine, to see what happens when the ball shatters or breake them. If the ball just makes a hole and continues, or if pieces of bone will spread around inside...

[@FeedMeMister]

That would add confounding variables so that comparison between data sets would be impossible. It would be interesting from a historical perspective, but useless as a scientific exercise with which to draw conclusions.

[@misterandersson5645]

@@FeedMeMister Yes, but to see what one bullet CAN do, is the point, not to have data sheets showing the average damage made by 100 bullets. Since the balls are made out of soft lead, I suspect hitting a rib would flatten it more and faster, creating a wider wound channel in the gelatine, than going through soft gelatine all the way. Just my thoughts...

[@steveshoemaker6347]

A very excellent presentation of skill and well said....Thank you very much...From Kentucky USA

[@presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889]

I was waiting for this video.

[@bigracer3867]

Nature and it's graphed bell curves. Nice!

[@gregbeeman2077]

Great video, you really do justice to history. Good shooting too BTW.

[@SB-qm5wg]

That's a great group with anything without a scope.

[@pychohobo1832]

You are scope dependant. Grouping should be 1 inch with iron sights. No different then with a scope at 50 meters. I don't use a scope. And I've made kills at 300 meters often. Longest I've made a kill was 1800 meters. All without a scope. Longest kill I've made with a musket ( brown bess) was close to 300 meters. Which I've never group shot it.

[@BIG-DIPPER-56]

As usual - EXCELLENT ! ! !

[@jamessulzer5105]

Love those head to head comparison tests! Could you compare black powder paper cartridge to brass cartridge at the same distance? Great videos...thanks!

[@657449]

Thank you for another great video and the warning in the beginning that charging the pan first may have been historically accurate but is unsafe in a non combat situation. How do you check the metallurgy of these vintage rifles? Having it rupture by your face can kill you. Repeated firings even with service loads can stress flaws in the manufacture. How many shots could a soldier fire before he he had to clean the bore? A fouled bore would take time to clean and slow down the rate of fire of the unit. I purchased two of your pistol cartridge makers and next Summer I plan to put them to good use.

[@capandball]

According to our national laws each old firearm has to be checked before shooting in our CIP proof house. Cleaning the bore was not the primary question. The fouling of the lock, touch hole and the wearing edge of the flint were the main reasons if the gun would not go off. The bullets were so smaller than the bore (15,9 mm ball in a 17,5 mm bore) that even a heavily fouled barrel could be loaded.

[@sickre]

These rounds must have gone through one man and into another, right?

[@capandball]

yes, absolutely. at this distance for sure.

[@gabrielmendella]

@@capandball well, though greatly appreciating this video - and generally your outstanding work - I must disagree with you on this point. The penetration of both bullets was tested against ballistic gelatine, which mimicks human flesh, i.e. naked bodies, but soldiers of the time did not fight naked! On the contrary, as you know well (I think you are a reenactor yourself), soldiers in the Napoleonic Wars donned multiple layers of heavy clothing. First a shirt of heavy hemp or linen (250g/sqm), then a waistcoat of heavy woollen cloth lined with raw thich linen or twill woolen serge, than at least a coat of heavy broadcloth, again lined with linen or wool serge. And in winter, an overcoat of very heavy thich cloth, lined with raw linen canvas. All of these layers of quite thick and heavy fabrics would slowe down and absorbe quite a bit of the impact and penetration power of any bullet, both at the front (entrance wound) and at the back (exit wound), so that even if the bullet did go through one man, it was unlikely to actually possess enough kinetic power to penetrate another man behind him in the same file, as this man was himself heavily clothed. Perhaps the bullet could have made a slight impact on him, but not enough to actually enter the body. Otherwise, volleys of musketry at close range would have utterly swiped out entire units, and we know for sure that this did not happen. The highest estimates from modern sources vary from 10 to 25% casualties from a single volley (at the very best!) at extremely short range - say 25-30 mts., which does not account for even the whole front rank of a three-rank formation to be totally put out of action. And these estimates are probably too high!

[@Bayan1905]

I wish there were more guns like that here in the states. I would have no issues hunting with the Jager Stutzen at all.

[@baneofbanes]

They’re actually pretty common here in the states, or at least not rare. You can actually buy kits to assemble your own as well.

[@oldschooljack3479]

Excellent work. Being an American, the martial history of Europe holds little interest for me. But I love all things black powder, especially flintlock. It seems that on modern battlefields most rifle wounds, if not immediately fatal, are survivable. This is partially due to improvement in battlefield medicine. However, ballistics definitely play a part... Smaller caliber non-expanding spitzer bullets result in less trauma than the lead balls of old. In days past any gunshot wound amounting to more than a grazing flesh wound was likely to be ultimately fatal. But even a grazing wound could still be fatal due to infection.

[@rgbgamingfridge]

he's back

[@generalpatton8468]

Holy shit, this guy is still alive

[@andrewsanders6270]

I have a musket says Hopkins on the latch cover , London on top of barrel , 42-1/2" long barrel , 57-3/4" over all leangh , it has a sole rear sight , and a brass front sight. Please advise , thank you . It's not a hopkins and allen

[@jandayranl]

You can really appreciate the locktime of flintlocks in this video

[@Azimut773]

very interesting story. subscribed. I will recommend you to my friends. with respect from Russia.

[@MatthewBaileyBeAfraid]

It is really strange to be hearing three distinct sounds from the musket and rifle. The flash of the powder in the Pan, the ignition of the primary gunpowder propellant charge, and then the ball hitting the target.

[@SherryPM72]

I have read that people in those days was more fearful of small caliber weapons do to a lingering death.

[@macmurfy2jka]

So it looks like this mainly comes down to the tactical application of these firearms to determine their effectiveness as the terminal ballistics show such similar behaviors.

[@mediocreman6323]

I can absolutely imagine you as a dashing Magyar officer in the Imperial army, speaking polite German to the generals, and then the truth to his men in Hungarian. Amazing video! I always lived under the impression that smooth bores were just outdated basically the moment rifles arrived, but this gives a more accurate picture. Chapeau!

[@stevemiller7433]

As usual, interesting and informative.

[@maxheadroom7649]

I rally enjoy watching your presentations your very informative and entertaining. I would compare you to Paul Harrel, with a bit less sarcasm.

[@colbunkmust]

How much of the velocity variance is due to the shorter barrel of the rifle, if you were to use a longer barreled rifle like that of a Kentucky rifle would the velocities be closer, or does the powder charge in this case make negligible difference due to the burn rate of the charge?

[@capandball]

Very little. The 5 shots are measured were varying from 401-410 m/s. A lot depends on the force you push the ball on the powder.

[@colbunkmust]

@@capandball follow up question: how much difference in velocity is there between a smoothbore carbine and full length musket? I was under the impression that black powder benefited from longer barrels to optimize velocity, or was it just the fact that longer muskets were safer to use in ranked fire and provided more standoff distance for bayonet fighting?

[@capandball]

@@colbunkmust The service charge I was firing from the musket delivered 500 m/s, while the service charge of the Jägerstützen delivered 400 m/s. Muskets were longer to be able to use them as half pike. That's why the carbines received longer bayonets.

[@smokeybear9180]

Great channel! 😉 Just a question I was wondering. If a lead bullet was shaped with angular channels in the lead that would make it spin in flight then a smooth bore could be far more accurate? A interesting idea. Keep up the excellent work buddy. 😉

[@capandball]

That's the theory behind many lead slug cartridges designed for shotguns. So the answer is yes.

[@sawyere2496]

Do you know if the light infantry used the ball starters too for loading? Or is that just something you’re doing for convenience’s sake

[@capandball]

The hammer had a starter protruding from one side. It was part of the kit of the Jager.

[@ravagesoyjoy]

I kind of want to buy one now and put it on a Tapco stock or an archangel stock

[@kowalski363]

Great video

[@b.griffin317]

what was the metal composition of the bullets? pure lead or what kind of alloy? hard or soft lead?

[@capandball]

soft, pure lead as it was used in the 19th century. Yes, that's a good addition.

[@kendalljohnson9172]

these are beautiful videos

[@damienluxford7482]

Very interesting video. Thanks.

[@nulnironsight2947]

Dear capandball, I would like to know how high the missfire rate of this kind of firearms is. how often doesent the priming load ignite or do other failiors occur?

[@saoirse5308]

I think it is vary much gun by gun, I have a ESR (English Sporting Rifle) in .54 Cal built by a Gentleman in Utah. I think I have had the same flint in it for almost 100 firings now without a single misfire. When you think about smashing a small rock with a sharp edge against a facing of steel, and it reliably producing sparks 80 or 90 times in a row. . . . . . The flint lock is an amazing technology.

[@nulnironsight2947]

@@saoirse5308 ok Thank you that helps me

[@capandball]

Out of 10 shots 7-8 would go off, rest were misfire.

[@saoirse5308]

@@capandball Do you think this was due to the coarse priming powder? Or some other issue? Hardness of the frizzen? Weakness of the springs?

[@capandball]

@@saoirse5308 Rather lack of proper training. The number of cartridges actually fired during the basic training of the soldiers was not more than 5-10.

[@LongPondNH]

What would stop a person from making the same kind of paper cartridges for the rifle as were used in the smooth bore? It seems like you could nearly duplicate loading speed by doing so. Granted that there is more resistance in the rifled bore, so more effort with the ramrod.

[@christophermcdoald805]

Forget the content of the video, who is this man? Have you ever seen anyone so cool? I think I found my new hero. If he's not already a secrete agent, he should be. Alright, alright, the content was really interesting, too.

[@Colinpark]

How did they measure muzzle velocity back in the day?

[@jamesnauert7844]

Very interesting video, well done sir.

[@bedeodempsey5007]

Capandball? Looks more like flint and ball. Keep up the good work.

[@jordanezell5132]

Well done

[@dramalexi]

Merci, this is an excellent video that shows the difference between these two. As a german I'm also slightly shocked about the name "Jägerstützen". What should it mean? Basically it's a combination of the words hunter and support. So should you interpret it in a literal way? Something that gives the hunter a support like a bipod or is it meant in a figurative way? Something that helps a hunter in his hunting?

[@richardpashos]

why on the 1796 jagerstutzen 1840 year mark?

[@bigracer3867]

Possibly when it was placed in an ordinance? Even if it was built quite a bit earlier.

[@saoirse5308]

I'm thinking 1796 would be the year the model is taken up. The Model 1911 Colt is a 1911 yet most were made long long after. The Winchester Model 1894 was produced from 1894-2006 112 years yet it is still an 1894 Winchester

[@capandball]

It was converted to percussion in 1840 and placed in a depot. I bought it as percussion gun and reconverted to flinter using an original lock.

[@GymChess]

The musket is obviously more powerful. A larger charge, i.e., more powder might add even more punch to it.

[@Rumblestrip]

Impressive. Thank you.

[@pauljones9746]

Sliding patch box?? I'm surprised it was used on such a late military rifle.

[@capandball]

It remained a standard feature until the introduction of the 1854 M Lorenz Jagerstutzen.

[@kennethp1423]

fantastic videos

[@davidtong2776]

While the rifle is the better "hunting gun", historically, it is volume of fire which wins the battle.

[@adm0iii]

Yes, line infantry armed with smoothbore muskets win the battles. Which is exactly why you also need light infantry, including those armed with these early rifles, to harass the enemy's line infantry, preventing them from setting up and deploying at their leisure for that first critical volley. You also need light infantry to harass the enemy light infantry to prevent them from harassing your line infantry. An army with a mix of light and line infantry has an advantage over one with only line, even if the numbers of light infantry are relatively small.

[@MrFirmbottom]

I know of one time where accuracy beat fire volume: During the Texan Revolution, the accuracy and tactics of the Texan riflemen broke a contingent of Santa Anna's army at the battle of Concepción. It was 98 Texans vs 300+ Mexicans and a few cannons. It did help that the Mexicans were issued poor quality powder, however. Anyway, just a tidbit of history I'd thought to share. I have always wondered how civil war era tactics and equipment would compare against armies of the older Napoleonic era.

[@davidtong2776]

@@MrFirmbottom Yes I am sure that it has happen and more that once in history. Indeed its one of goals of every military, "One shot One Kill." However, increased rate of fire has also been a major object of every Military, and the course of small arms weapons development. Also the 18i6 Flintlock was still issued out in the opening days of the Civil war.

[@coleparker]

When Lewis and Clark began their expedition, they took both, with the explanation that while the rifle was great for long range shooting, the smooth bore was just as efficient and perhaps better in the heavy wooded areas. It is similar to having both rifles and shotguns, since the smoothbore can handle buck and ball loads.

[@coleparker]

And yes I know that they took and air rifle as well.

[@caroldavis8300]

Love the videos. How about making a video comparing Uberti to Pedersoli products. Does one brand offer more quality over the other?

[@rogerhudson9732]

Great video. Christmas greetings from an ex-Austro-Hungarstko land.

[@johngotti7548]

Whenever I see old muskets and guns like these I just think of that scene from "The Patriot" during the battle when it shows the a guy getting his leg blown off with a cannon ball & another guy ends up with his head missing...