Shocking Truth about my Airplane - Vans RV12

[@sblack48]

After working for 30+ years for a major aircraft mfg I can assure you that all mfgs have issues with new aircraft going in to service. These can be structural, systems, powerplant, vibration related, or just about anything else. This includes boeing and airbus. They have an army of structural engineers and numerous test rigs to simulate loads on primary structure and they still get surprised by cracks or damage from firm landings etc. Vans don’t have anywhere close to those kinds of resources and some of these issues don’t show up until many 100s of hours or different kinds of operating environments are encountered. I don’t believe this has anything to do with the design being rushed. It probably has a lot more to do with the fact that this aircraft had to meet a weight limitation so there could be no extra structural reinforcement and skin thicknesses had to be kept to a minimum.

[@bullhead900]

I personally have owned a 2017 RV12 SLSA, It was a great airplane and I had not had any big issues with it. All airplanes go through growing pains. Don't buy experimental airplanes if you are afraid of them.

[@keithwest4328]

We have four new RV12’s at our flight school in Naples, FL. (Rexair) It’s a great plane, easy to fly and land, responsive, great view, and fabulous avionics. We’ve made a number of actual cross country flights without a single issue and hardly any weather delays. Our instructors were at first skeptical, now it’s everyone’s favorite plane. If you haven’t flown an RV12, you’re missing out.

[@blaster-zy7xx]

We had several at Chesapeake sport pilot just outside of Annapolis MD. They went through several types of aircraft and settled on the RV12 as their go-to trainer and rental. It was one of my favorite planes along with the sport cruiser and the Eaglet.

[@dabneyoffermein595]

@@blaster-zy7xx How hard are the advisory bulletin items to fix? Are most of them inexpensive?

[@blaster-zy7xx]

@@dabneyoffermein595 I had nothing to do with maintenance. I was just one of the pilots who rented aircraft and flew them. My contribution is that I have flown many light sport planes and can give an assessment of how they flew relative to one another.

[@dabneyoffermein595]

@@blaster-zy7xx Ah ok, I'm sure you detect things that are "off" and make reports/comments to that effect. Great stuff.

[@blaster-zy7xx]

@@dabneyoffermein595 As far as flying, the controls are well balanced on the RV. As opposed to a sport cruiser that has a light pitch control (a bit too light) and heavier on the roll controls. The only idiosyncrasies with the RV in my opinion was that the fuel tank is behind the seats inside the cabin, so if there ever was a fuel leak it would be inside the cabin. Also the wings come off for transport, (which is good) so part of the checkout is the ensure the main spar pins are properly in place. It also has a castering nose gear, (like may SLAs have). If you have never taxied with castering nose gear, then you will need a bit of practice taxiing and initial power up for take off before getting cut lose.

[@bunkie2100]

As a part owner of an RV-12 for a while, I have to say that I was never really comfortable with having the fuel tank in the cockpit. The advantage is that it allows for the wings to be removable. One of the other owners experienced an alternator failure (actually a stator failure and that's a whole other story) 800 miles from home. That made it possible to retrieve the airplane on a trailer. That needed to be done because, despite the common nature of the Rotax engine, there is no corresponding availability of A&Ps who are certified or willing to work on Rotaxes. While I was involved with the airplane we chased various issues with the carburetors and the engine ignition modules. When the engine got to about 1600 hours, we decided to replace it with a new engine. Compared to the typical $12-15K cost of a Continental O-200 rebuild, the new Rotax cost $23K. We did recover $5K on the sale of the previous engine, but the lack of overhaul options on the Rotax is something that should be considered by potential owners. The aforementioned stator speaks to a design choice that I question. On a typical engine, the alternator is an external component and it takes about an hour to replace one. The Rotax has the alternator as part of the flywheel assembly at the back of the engine which requires either special tools or removal of the engine. What would be a simple repair on a Continental or Lycoming is a major repair with the Rotax.

[@FloridaFlying]

All of these are valid points, however I think a brand new continental o200 is much more than 18k… what year did you buy the rotax? I worry that the cost of a new 912uls is more than 23k (dare I say it’s in the 40s now?)

[@bunkie2100]

@@FloridaFlying - The Rotax (a 912ULS) was purchased in early 2022. With respect to new O-200s, yes they are expensive. But very few anew O-200s are sold because almost no new aircraft use it and the old ones just get rebuild after rebuild. A couple of years back, I came across a stash of pickled, factory-new O-200s and worked with my flying club to buy two of them at a bargain price (at about the cost of two overhauls). That tells me that the market for new O-200s isn't all that great. By way of contrast, almost no one rebuilds Rotaxes which makes the engine TBO cost per hour almost twice that of an O-200. There are reasons to go Rotax, the primary one being low weight which is critical for LSA aircraft. The Cessna 165 failed, partly, because its payload suffered from the almost 100 pound penalty for using the O-235.

[@FloridaFlying]

Oh ok, I was ready to hear 40k for a new 912ULS. 23k is still a pretty penny, but not completely awful. Which company did you purchase it through? I might end up keeping this plane until it needs a new engine. We’ll see, for now I’m just going to fly as much as possible

[@bunkie2100]

@@FloridaFlying - Lockwood over at Sebring.

[@bunkie2100]

@@FloridaFlying - A funny thing happens when I re-read my posts. In this case I left out the word “rebuild” when referring to the price of the 0-200. I’ve edited the post to correct it. Sorry about that.

[@terrancestodolka4829]

Glad you noted and corrected all the issues... On your beautiful RV 12

[@deansiracusa3966]

Certified standard category airplanes don’t have to comply with Service Bulletins, only Airworthiness Directives.

[@jeffboatright]

I really enjoy flying my brother's -12is. Light and delightful controls with great balance across aileron, rudder, and stabilator. Great visibility. Great t/o and climb performance with the injected 912. The castoring nose wheel with steering via differential braking is not my favorite, but then, every airplane has it's peculiarities.

[@tonyvitiello9897]

Great video. I have the tail kit mostly done and maybe half of the fuse kit done. Already have done several SBs on the tail but more have come up since I’ve paused the build due to life. It’s annoying to have these come up but if you built the plane yourself you aren’t afraid of them. Hopefully I’ll get mine done some day and have a great airplane like you said. I did a demo flight before starting the build and it was the best flying plane I’ve ever flown. My comparison is 172’s, 150/152’s, , Cherokees, my own Champ, Cubs, Kolbs, etc. So admittedly I’ve not flown much in the performance category but the RV12 is so much more responsive and light on the controls than all of those. I am not too worried about the Chapter 11 as I don’t have that much invested compared to others. I think it will work out but if not I can mount the tail on the roof of my house and make it look like an airplane crashed into my house.

[@flysport_tedder]

I trained in the 12iS. The wing removal and pitot tube seemed strange, I didn't like the lack of a parachute for its weight, but it's a basic fun LSA with some of the best control feel.

[@mikelumbreras4903]

Nice looking little homebuild. I had a racer about 10 years ago and I remember not having so much thing to be worried about. Have fun.

[@crufflerdoug]

Great video. You are so right about the handling of RV designs. Just superb.

[@blaster-zy7xx]

I have flown several light sport aircraft and I really liked the way the RV-12 handles and flies. Very well balanced in roll and pitch. I considered purchasing one, but never did. I didn’t know they had this many notices. Thanks for that.

[@tztz1949]

If you don’t build it or know how to look at structure for damage or weak areas just write a check again for a Cessna and have it inspected every year. Experimental with Rotax is constant inspection/refinement process .

[@Rv7traralgon]

I’ve built a 12IS in Australia. I did get pretty annoyed with all the Service Directives. Easy enough to do as the builder but bloody annoying.

[@dannycrooks8462]

When i was learning to fly my flight instructor would create a fault for you to find when doing your preflight check but he didn't do it all the time it made sure you really give the aircraft preflight and it always stuck with me i would highly recommend other instructors do this and you really get to know the aircraft and you can spot a fault quickly

[@dmcd7333]

I can tell you really take care of your airplane. I am still stuck on boats, but have always wanted to get an experimental airplane. Still on my bucket list. Great video all around quality!

[@flashbazbo3932]

Gorgeous aircraft Pedro. Mint clean and maintained. Great presentation with honesty balanced with experience. I'd keep it too! Glad you missed all the cracked rivets on the firewall in many current RVs...

[@brentjohnson6654]

Good video. I have been a fan of vans ever since the RV4/6 days. I have thought of building a RV10 but that looks like a lot of work. The RV12 or RV14 might be more my speed. Nothing you mentioned scares me away, it just makes sense to have a lot of bulletins. The nice part about experimental is you can do the work yourself and manage the maintenance. Thanks again for the video. All the best!

[@Colorado_Native]

I plan to build the -12 because it seems more like a one-person job because of the rivets and type of construction that are used. Plus it can be trailered home rather than hangared at the airport. I am retired USAF and plan to have it painted as a tribute to the Thunderbirds. I bought a building and about ready to get started. Best of luck in your build.

[@bradcohen3801]

@@Colorado_Nativeyou might need to rethink that now that Van’s has filed for chapter 11

[@Colorado_Native]

@@bradcohen3801 I know. I am on the fifth stage of working through my grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. I have toyed with building my own car. Factory Five has a neat1935 roadster truck. If you go to their website look for the blue one with fenders and wire wheels. I already contacted them for more info. Sad thing is I already bought a building that has lots of room, living quarters and even a small commercial gym. I will wait for awhile, but want to do something. What is your plan? Thanks for the followup.

[@larrymangold1048]

Where did you get the Teflon coolant hose? My 912ULS is due for hose replacement. Thank.

[@HobbitHomes263]

i was wanting to buy my own plane about the time Zenith was seeing a lot of crashes. i thought light sport kits were a way to get into flyimg without spending the kids college money. in the end i found an older 152 for 13'k and spent another on repars an engine overhaul. I kept all the original steam guages and VOR and voice radios, added a transponder a few years ago I came across a low hour CH 750 stol There had not been any major problems with that airframe so I felt more comfortable with it. It has a 10 hp Subaru up front but I think when I get to the overhul point I, Im gonna swap in a Viking to save some weith. I love the STOL for weekend camping in the mountains and I have taken up several ranchers to survey their more remote section when they are looking for small groups of cattle or sheep. So the STOL feature has been a door opener for me because I m free to camp, fish and hunt anytime I like on about 300,000 acres in the northern rockes and I know I will be the only one there. There is a Vans RV 7 at our airport and the owner and I have swapped stick time on several occassions. His is a whole bunch faster than my planes but it is wonderfully easy to fly, Myh only issue with the 750 is power. We can get some highly localized weather conditions. Lst summer I went up just to burn a few gallons on a clouless day. On the way home I hit an area of unforecasted head winds, I ground away two hours of fuel to make 43 miles before I got out of that and back into calmer skies. I was pretty low on fuel so I reinstated my rule of never taking off without filling the tanks. The nice part about the Subaru is I can run it on 91 octane pump gas so instead of $9 for avgas at the FBO I'm fueling at $4.10 I bought a 100 gallon tank and pump for the back of my old truck so it's my personal bowser. Life is good in Light Sport world

[@michaelhassell545]

Sounds like you are doing the sort of flying (rocky mountains) that I aspire to. I’m currently building a Zenith 701. I’d love to connect and discuss flying Zenith in the mountains.

[@davepatrick9905]

Great Video. I have done a lot of Light Sport Service and Flight instruction. About 5,000 hours in LS alone and while the RV 12 does fly very well, working on them is difficult. For a few knots extra the cowl is too tight.This has resulted in many issues. When in Florida are you? Best, Dave

[@FloridaFlying]

Oh YEAH the bottom cowling is terrible to remove. A real pain to do without an extra hand. I am based in Titusville

[@1shARyn3]

@@FloridaFlying and worse, is putting the d*)*(* thing back on. If it helps, after sliding the cowl up the nose strut and finding the exhaust pipe hole, cinch the port side at the firewall, then come around to starboard and slide the oil radiator into place and THEN attach the starboard side. And mine has a tendency for the long pin at the lower firewall to inch up, so I use a ziptie to hole it into the proper down position -- ziptied to the bottom of the battery box. Another change I made (when built, that another SB has been issued for) was to open up the bottom tailcone fairing to prevent the trim knuckle impinging on that fairing and encouraging the trim controller arm to bend and break (that other earlier SB...). Someone did NOT do due diligence and homework on this design. Oh yeah, and when installing the cowl, watch for potential prop damage (DON"T LEAVE SCREWS IN THE FRONT OF THE COWL)

[@adiamondforever7890]

My brother made his RV8, took enough years, fun, safe plain, easy to over correct on landing mistakes. Being able to take the tank out to alter or repair the panel is not a bad thing, be thankful you are not doing that from inside the cockpit

[@SuperYellowsubmarin]

Not sure what you mean about the Teflon coolant hose, this looks like silicone to me. Probably more durable than the original nitrile rubber though.

[@FloridaFlying]

Oops, I did mean silicone. But yes, much better than the original. I don’t know why they aren’t standard

[@mauriceevans6546]

Mosaic rules will see some very interesting aircraft coming to market. I am looking into the shark, TL stream, TL sparker, tarragon, and flight design F2.

[@MilitaryTalkGuy]

I sold off my plane and am holding out to see what happens with Mosaic. It has the potential to be just the shot in the arm we need but I am holding off on celebrating till I see it in writing. The government has this way of looking promising only to screw things up by the time it goes final.

[@gazonanet]

I fly my TL sting for 6 years, and very pleased with the plane. Just had few minor issues with it. But would like to upgrade one day to Sparker+915 . Love it’s wide and specious cabin, ergonomic side sticks, grate speed. Only the price too high 😢, and still growing

[@mauriceevans6546]

@@gazonanet price increases have hit every segment of society. Vans aircraft found that out. The prices are definitely out of reach for many

[@scottmueller6560]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the RV-12 It is a beautiful aircraft! So do you know if they have changed the kits to reflect all the fix's. I'd love to hear your comments on the RV-9A and RV-10A as to the bad Fix's

[@nappozulp4199]

I have a similarly designed airplane, a Bristell with the Rotax 915 engine. Flies great, has plenty of power, great airplane for the mountains where I live. I do have connector issues and wondering if you have the same problem. Usually happens with Lane B where I get a warning light and the engine runs roughly if on that lane. The fix has generally been to clean connectors and apply electrolytic grease. This is just an observation of engines in general, but it seems that Rotax engines have a lot more connectors than other engines…more to go wrong.

[@flysport_tedder]

What connectors?

[@droge192]

@@flysport_tedder - I assume he means electrical connectors, seeing as he menetioned electrolytic grease. Eg. between sensors and cables, cables and instruments, input devices like the AP and their servos. There are a lot of connectors in any modern plane like this. Regular cleaning with contact cleaner and applying electrolytic grease will prevent problems and keep them clean and corrosion-free through the full life of the plane.

[@flysport_tedder]

@@droge192 I agree, but specifically for the lane fault, I'm curious about the details.

[@oneninerniner3427]

Just remember dielectric grease is an insulator not a conductor. So you need a conductive type grease to apply to the metal connector terminals. I assume that's what electrolytic is, yes?

[@nappozulp4199]

Thanks for mentioning that. I know the chief mechanic at the dealer recommended electrolytic grease. I'm out of the country right now, but I'll check when I get back. I hope I bought the right type of grease.@@oneninerniner3427

[@mobsquad8500]

Very cool and very professional, all normal…thank you!

[@jimle22]

I really like the black and white graphics and paint job. Nice.

[@apivovarov2]

@12:14 - Engine is important , but it is "optional". What is not optional is elevator. If it is malfunction - it is fatal.

[@ryanodell5072]

So, you're telling me that Van's will stand behind their aircrafts and try to do everything possible to make sure that any possible problems that may arise are addressed and they notify the entire community. Good to know. That being said, I think most people looking to get into aviation or are already into private ownership of a plane should watch this video as an idea to the importance of proper maintenance and updates to their aircraft.

[@da20eclipse]

I gave serious consideration to purchasing the LSA version of the RV-12, five years ago. I flew to the factory for a test flight. I also planned a stop at SLING (The Airplane Factory) in Torrance CA. Long story short, I ordered a SLING 2, LSA. It’s been 5 + years, appears I made the right choice.

[@blaster-zy7xx]

Did you take delivery and fly your sling much??? That was one I considered.

[@da20eclipse]

Yes, I have it 5+ years and fly it several times a week, weather permitting.

[@delkenrich]

So… I watched this video for the first time a bit ago. Based on the content expressed I am truly pleased with the airplane. The very few items mentioned, either airframe or power plant seem extremely light and manageable from my perspective. I am frankly at a loss as to why anyone would think differently. The only thing that I can respond with would be something like this… if you’re displeased with the very few and minor Issues then you probably ought to look at the Ad’s for any one of a couple of other aircraft… such as Hughes 500, or a Piper Turboprop model… those would really upset your apple cart ! Any way, maybe perspective is skewed and I’m living in an altered reality. Good day all and Merry Christmas!

[@FloridaFlying]

If I had purchased a certified airplane, like a Cessna 150, I would not be able to afford it. I too am pleased with this airplane, and am eternally grateful that I can do the maintenance on it myself.

[@FloridaFlying]

And merry Christmas to you too!

[@triskellian]

You have a very nice aircraft inside and out! I had flown a number of years and operated several general aviation certified planes. The only experimental I had flown was a Long EZ the belonged to a friend of mine. It was quite a performer for it's power and weight combination. I like that your generation is doing their due diligence on legal and cost research to fly more often and safely. New certified aircraft is getting too difficult to obtain and maintain. Blue skies!

[@trevorsaylors622]

I appreciate the Rotax performance & burn per hour. Premium Gas keeps operating cost per hour down vs general.

[@RayMrRobert]

It’s a little beauty. Do the supports on main landing gear before metal stress should begin to present problems. I say a student pilot performing first solo. She lost one wheel on her 172 and was warned by tower. It was an emotional mess for her. Obvious problem was keeping cool and not stop flying until her instructor got to tower to instruct her. She trusted him and brought herself under control quickly which saved her. She brought it in successfully. You mentioned your plane in comparison with 172. Please choose wisdom and follow the service bulletin. A student plane gets beat up with more hard landings than yours but don’t ever take it for granted. Change it out.

[@thomasaltruda]

11:36 Teflon? I think you meant Silicone hoses..

[@FloridaFlying]

Yes, haha yes I did mean silicone. My oil hoses are conductive teflon

[@thomasaltruda]

@@FloridaFlying I knew what you meant! Yeah the silicone hoses are nice. I haven’t flown a RV-12 yet.. I bet they fly sweet. I have flown all the other Vans aircraft except the -1, the -10, and the -12.. I’ll get into a -12 eventually!

[@DarrylRosenbaum]

Would love to fly in one.. heading to Sebring next weekend to get some hours in a bristell. Fell in love with it after a demo and considering alternatives. 6’2 260 tired of rubbing shoulders with my cfi in a 172. I’ve read the van is spacious like the bristell. Maybe I’m crazy for asking but I’d get my tail up there if you’d be open to having a co-pilot

[@jimle22]

The first plane I rode in as a teenager was an older Aerocoupe. The plane looks a lot like that older aircraft.

[@skelsien]

Maybe someone already mentioned this to you, but I didn't see it skimming through the comments- and I know this video is 7 months old but I just now ran across it. It is not correct that Service Bulletins have to be complied with for SLSA. Safety Directives / Safety Alerts (for now until MOSAIC) must be complied with. Airworthiness Directives must be complied with. Service Bulletins and Service Letters / Service Notifications are optional. Service Bulletins are a great idea to comply with, definitely recommend it, just wanted to clarify the legal issue. Source: I'm a certified Light Sport Repairman Maintenance - Airplane (LSRM-A).

[@timjohnson1578]

great info, A&P and private pilot looking to build one of those :)

[@PilotPramodRegmi]

Thanks for the great Video. Can you give me the more info on Teflon water hose. size/brand, where to bye ? I want for my Rv 12.

[@FloridaFlying]

Send an email to [e-mail] and I’ll forward you the info on what I bought

[@Bill3558]

I’ve flown in the 12. Nice plane. Not the easiest to get in and out of. I don’t like having the gas tank in the cabin. I fly a CTLSi high wing Elsa. I like having a parachute. It saved me once. N121YT.

[@droge192]

Man, I checked out your accident.... I wouldn't have liked hanging suspended from those trees!!! What a luckly call you had. I hope you were compensated by those who did the inspection and left the 2 oil hoses disconnected...... scary that so-called professional maintainers could forget something like that - resulting in an engine out, and a pilot hanging from a tree.

[@FloridaFlying]

I also looked into the accident. I’m glad it worked out well for you. Having a parachute really does give you a nice cozy feeling. I also am not a fan of the gas tank inside the cabin either. The luscombe is another plane where the gas sits behind you. Being able to remove the wings easily in the 12 is a nice plus. Probably won’t ever use it, but nice to have I guess. Thank you for sharing your story

[@inz1234]

How much did you end up spending to get all those service bulletins/directives fixed?

[@BobMarley-pm1xb]

Fine ride and another good vid! Thanks

[@allanmoore4794]

I think many of the SB's on the Van's fleet are from ABUSE, from pilots who should not be teaching themselves aerobatic maneuvers and any other type high G and high roll rate maneuvering. I get it, light stick forces and clean design are FUN!. But, proper training and technique, to minimize stresses is essential for safety. I also think improper ground handling causes excessive abuse on the nose gear system. Fly these as you would a tail dragger. Always, stick full back for all taxiing and try to use the soft-field takeoff and landing technique. One issue with the TIG welding process in many of the steel assemblies is they are not heat treated (stress relieved) after the TIG process. Both of my steps failed at a TIG weld (RV6A)

[@HobbitHomes263]

I remember many years ago when there were a bunch of Zenith 601s that crashed. many those had wings come off. so, i bet Vans owners aooreciate getting a pile of notices rather than none

[@RV6Pilot]

Exactly. I’m no fan of SBs, and as an early serial number I’ve been affected by at least 90% of them, I much prefer having them over a manufacturer who doesn’t care.

[@svenostrowski]

A bunch of the Cherry Max Rivets on your tail cone and near your fuel cap are not pulled correctly, which means the stem of the rivet is not snapped off correctly, the length of the rivet is likely wrong or there may be a gap in the underlying skin. Any Cherry that doesn’t pull correctly is not giving the structural strength it was designed for and will start to work loose as time goes by.

[@svenostrowski]

The stem of the Rivet will be flush with the head when properly installed.

[@clarencehopkins7832]

Excellent stuff bro

[@apivovarov2]

What you can tell about the lowest power to weight ratio among all RVs?

[@andybower7135]

Do you have a ballpark (or specific figure) on how much all those SB's cost? Curious to know how much you've had to spend on them in addition to the original purchase price of the plane. Great content!

[@brucethecurmudgeon8538]

You do not have to comply with technical service bulletins. They are advisory in nature only. You must comply with AD's.

[@RV6Pilot]

Not on an Experimentals. ADs in general do not apply to Experimentals, although a prudent owner/pilot will do them. You can also do your own annual inspection and sign it off after taking a two-day class. If you don’t do that, any A&P can do it for you. You don’t need an IA to sign it off as you would on a store-bought plane.

[@Paul_Wetor]

I notice the big word EXPERIMENTAL behind the seats. That would seem to indicate it's a work in progress, and that you are also a test pilot.

[@Colin_Holloway]

In the US "Experimental" is an aircraft category and includes all amateur-built and kit-built aircraft. I guess by that definition it is always a work in progress, and you are the test pilot on every flight!

[@squarehead5165]

Do you have a list of hoses you used for the coolant hose replacement? Need to do the same.,

[@shortribslongbow5312]

Great info awesome looking aircraft good job! :o)

[@eduardocobian3238]

Why don't you add extra welding to the weak spots?

[@TheRotorhound]

You flew that thing to the Bahamas? My flying rule was no flying over significant water without a twin or turbine.

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

I bought a Rotax 914 powered Europa monowheel aircraft from a retired NWA pilot in Punta Gorda Florida, I asked him if he ever flew it to the Bahama's he laughed and said, "no way". Yet I know one German Europa owner flew his around the world twice.

[@TheRotorhound]

@@dwaynemcallister7231 It’s a question of risk taking….and fear of sharks.

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

Yes and truly he had not established any trust in the Rotax, it needed some debugging, ironically the one engine stoppage it had was found to be the mag switch from ACS@@TheRotorhound

[@blaster-zy7xx]

I fly out of Punta Gorda as my home field. Great little airport.

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

Perhaps you are acquainted with Bruce Armstrong who I bought my Europa monowheel from? I think he may have a RV-7A now.@@blaster-zy7xx

[@KL-fq6nd]

The bad? I'd rather have a company like Vans sending service bulletins, and offering parts and instructions for "fixing" them. every single certified aircraft have AD's and service letters......this is nothing new... at all....

[@elkskiutah8204]

great video but I thought you were going to list these costs? $$$

[@leebrand2172]

The answer to all the questions are plainly announced and revealed at the back of the cockpit - "EXPERIMENTAL". All you need to know a few seconds before you transfer your cash. It doesnt claim to be a Cessna

[@martinsaunders7925]

The airplane doesn't know it's an experimental owner. The comparison with a certified version would be more useful with regard to maintainance.

[@dabneyoffermein595]

how in the world did you talk your wife into going over the Atlantic ocean single engine? I'm truly impressed with your negotiating skills.

[@johnholmes6897]

Vans doesn't want their planes dropping out of the sky. That's how every service notice should be looked at.

[@lakeguy65616]

so approximately what did it cost to comply with all these issues?

[@1shARyn3]

1st comment response I make when asked about the 12 is the horrendous number of SBs. One really has to wonder who designed this and their qualifications. OTOH, gear problems -- realize that the demonstrators are typically used for transition training (and on the 12 especially) by newbie pilots and frequently landing on rough (back country-like) airports, so one can expect hard strut stresses imposed. But yeah, overall good airplane with ridiculous SB history. I did my counterweight change WAY before that SB was issued cuz I found my counterweight hanging (but had not yet fallen off) during one of my annual condition inspections. Another (but no SB issued) is the extreme camber on the main gear. Notice the wear on the outer treads of your tires. Can easily wear out tires in a couple hundred (if not a single hundred) hours and need them to be flipped around. I made some shims to reduce the camber from the factory 6* per axle down to 1.5* per axle and now the tires wear in the center, with the tire being changed at the 5 year time limit rather than because of wear (still LOTS of tread left after 5 years). And the hose change is EXPENSIVE -- and I agree, first change, go teflon. Factory hoses are teflon ONLY for the fuel hoses ...

[@mum3347]

Comparing weight and designs against Cherokee 140, Cessna 150 ,the weight goes somewhere. I don't own a RV. Also putting a patch on cracked aluminum works but not always. I worked on many UH-1 's.

[@briand4000]

Yeah, the rubber swap is quite the horror show. Just did mine on my Sportstar. Will very likely sell it before I have to suffer through it again. To be fair, I haven't owned an airplane yet that didn't have some seriously stupid engine issues to deal with. Lyco, Conti, Rotax...they all can drive you nuts eventually. I guess it's just part of the game.

[@kristensorensen2219]

Cost per hour to fly is what?

[@FloridaFlying]

I think I will cover the true cost in a future video. It burns 5.5 gallons per hour (over estimating here). I spent maybe 1000$ USD this year during annual, only because I decided to replace a lot of items

[@johnwalker7923]

Awesome paint job!

[@MilitaryTalkGuy]

@@FloridaFlying having the option to do your own annuals is one of the very appealing things about experimental. My first annual was only $800 including the oil and filter change. Every year, the cost of a basic annual has gone up almost tripling in 10 years. That, along with all the other cost that continue to go up such as hanger space, avgas cost, insurance, etc... has driving many people away from aviation as a hobby.

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

In Canada we have the right to service our purchased homebuilt aircraft, rather than only the ones we built, which is a nice rule if one educates themself on the details@@MilitaryTalkGuy

[@PhoKingLitMedia]

Would you be willing to tell us how much you paid for it? I would love to know what this plane in this condition cost.

[@jcldano]

An RV-12iS E-LSA, new, built by a STEM program. runs $125-140K, unpainted. They’re quality builds. I have been a mentor at a local high school build program for four years. We’ve completed and sold one, and are substantially complete with another.

[@MikeRetsoc]

Should you explain that most SBs done apply to later builds and, for those that do, they are one time fixes and are not relevant once complied with (even though you decided not to replace the nose bracket for one time fix)? Know anything about certificated aircraft in their first (and second) year of production? E.g. Bonanzas, Comanches, Remoses, etc. This is a highly misleading (and more than a bit whiny) report on the RV-12. Note: I dont own one. I have to guess that this is the first plane you have owned. GA aircraft are not BMWs with required dealer maintenance. (Or an electric scoooter, haha.)

[@bigjohnson7415]

Vote for Pedro! Sorry, I just couldn't resist!😜

[@caryfriedman6935]

Can anyone indicate where he got the blue, teflon coolant hoses? Experimental only, non certified?

[@FloridaFlying]

I misspoke, they are silicone. I got them from HPSperformanceproducts.com

[@nitrostamped]

That much downtime and financial punishment, and still a happy owner. It must fly like a dream.

[@johndean2925]

You are a very patient and forgiving person. Was considering a RV-15...I think i will pass. Appreciate you sharing your experiences!!!

[@FloridaFlying]

I would say at least give them a couple years to iron out any updates. I really do love my plane!

[@skipbisby7307]

Beautiful airplane.

[@DanFrederiksen]

LSAs are typically half decent because it tends to be more modern thinking but I'm a strong believer that a plane should be made of composites in as few parts as possible. Because a carbon fiber fuselage can be rigid as just a thin shell with no frames or stringers and that's just hard to beat for weight, simplicity and resistance to fatigue. And if aviation advances from WW2 to the jet age of the 1960s we could have both natural engine redundancy and out of body rear placement so we don't need a firewall nor the aesthetic homicide that is the front noise maker.

[@quinnjim]

Seems like a LOT of design issues. Too many parts cracking and falling apart.

[@MilitaryTalkGuy]

Vans makes good plane kits but I do think they rushed things with the RV12. At least they are trying to help the aviation community have affordable options which is more than many other companies are doing (cessna). I hope the FAA wakes up to the fact that general aviation is dying and adopts new rules to save it. We need planes that are more affordable, or we will see hundreds of small airports close their doors and no new pilots enter the fray to replace those that are quickly dying off.

[@blaster-zy7xx]

You are 100 % correct, but the problem is economics. Several plane manufacturers find out that selling inexpensive planes just doesn’t make them enough money in the long haul to make it worth it. And Vans, one of the biggest and best kit and finished plane manufacturer just filed for chapter 11 and Cessna abandoned their light sport plane years ago.

[@lyfandeth]

Its just the repeated love letters about "cracking" that give me pause.

[@maloyaircraft1174]

If you had to list everything you would want in a plane, what would that list look like?

[@robertbandusky9565]

I guess you can exit via parachute, IF you can open the canopy👨🏻‍✈️

[@Captndarty]

All of these airplanes they try to shoehorn into the light sport category are built lightweight and flimsy similar to a mountain bike. It’s like flying an eggshell….

[@frankgordonsmith4795]

It’s like a flying egg shell there are so many cracks to watch out for 😅

[@psjasker]

It is a damn good looking aircraft

[@bradcohen3801]

I have a zenith 601, so I was curious for a review of the RV-12. I just didn’t expect 12 of the 14 minute video spent going over ADs….

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

It is not a surprise, only through field experience over many hours do the bugs show up. When a design is mature then one would expect less issues.

[@Rlkent62]

Maybe I missed it. Are you a AP?

[@FloridaFlying]

I am not, but I do have my Light Sport Repairman Inspection certificate for condition inspections. Experimental aircraft do not have to be maintained by an A&P

[@MikeW-p4u]

Nothing new regarding SBs on a newer model. Try flying/owning a newer Cessna 😳 you have to have DEEP pockets.

[@mazerat4q2]

Before each flight the pilot is the only person who can say if an airplane and engine is safe. Are you capable? Are you smart enough to shut down the engine, get out of the plane, put the chocks back under the tires, get in your car and drive home? You better be if you wish to stay alive. If you don't find the problem no one else will

[@FloridaFlying]

This is true. Having a pilot certificate is a huge responsibility. Risk management is key

[@RV6Pilot]

Yep. I’ve pushed mine back into the hangar a few times. Experimental does not imply daredevil. I would wager that a Skyhawk renter doesn’t do anywhere near as much of an inspection as an Experimental flier/owner does. And a better informed one as well.

[@gendaminoru3195]

That's a whole lota 2's!

[@FloridaFlying]

Too many twos, Victor

[@Richard.Hybels]

I just looked it up and a new plane like this is $189,000!!!! I’m nog a pilot and know very little but my buddy bought a 182 for $143,000 and there is a back seat.

[@mistagto]

After a year of maintaining a 182 let us know what you think.

[@JohnDimmick]

Excellent video. Nor afraid to show how the results of hasty marketing remove some of the joy of ownership. Thanks for the honesty.

[@Aviator168]

Crazy

[@daverson8609]

The shocking truth is that I award all titles containing shocking truth with a thumbs down and a please grow the fu ckup.

[@apennameandthata2017]

Seems a normal number of bulletins to me.

[@diggy-d8w]

"Experimental" planes.... this must grab people like it does me to see this in bold block letters in the plane... lmao, seeing this tends to make you wonder WTF are they flying here & is it even legal? I know it is but still seeing it lettered in a plane makes one thing this might not be safe? It's in the Canard plane as well & I've heard those are light plus a joy to fly as well. Who'd ever want a sluggish plane to fight with when these might be fun to fly? It should be fun. peace

[@johntenhave1]

Would you rather that Vans did not issue service bulletins? If so, you are in the wrong business, sport.

[@FloridaFlying]

I do appreciate the good relationship and support Vans has with their customers. The many SBs does make me wonder if these issues are across the experimental industry and many companies just don’t say anything.

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

You look into any aircraft, it's pretty similar, aircraft safety is more critical than a car or motorcycle. I wouldn't want it any other way. You gonna put your loved ones at risk in a aircraft, you should be caring about ever detail being right.@@FloridaFlying

[@abe4179]

Wow

[@carlosrodz1]

1000' to you is STOL ? 😂

[@PDZ1122]

Gee, I'm so shocked... I think I need to lie down. Golly, I'm going to faint. I think I'll go eat a nothing burger.

[@sherlorkchai]

ครบๆ

[@fingerhorn4]

Who pays for these safety modifications? If it is the owners then I think they have been badly served. Fair enough if the aircraft is several years old, but some things on this list are undoubtedly due to poor design and quality control.

[@Lurch-Bot]

This is why I bought an S-12. Anything that needed to be fixed was already figured out by the time the LSA regs were written. It can take harder landings than a Cessna. There hasn't been a service bulletin on the motor in years because it is so simple. The RV-12 is what you get when you rush out a design for a plane that is trying to be more than it is. The MOSAIC rules will enable you to have better built planes of this type. They really shaved everything down just to stay within the weight limit, which is impractical and dangerous.

[@doesntmatter3068]

This is what I think about "Service Bulletins " Service Bulletins is just another way of saying "Recall" just like the car manufacture do. This is another way aircraft manufactures are saying, "We screwed up, now come spend your money for new parts." Van and others should be held accountable for their "bad" parts/design(s) As for your nose wheel bracket, and engine mount standoffs, among others, if they are cracking/breaking, they are a bad design and Vans should be sending you new ones @ no cost!

[@KL-fq6nd]

false.... service bulletins are notifications, not required at all. A lot of the SB's are upgrades, or simple inspection notifications.

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

Boeing, Airbus, Cessna, Beechcraft, and every other manufacturer in the world has the same problem to one degree or another. The mandatory one's are "Airworthiness Directives". I would expect nothing less from a small airplane company.

[@cabdouch]

I kind of found the corrections hilarious.