Flying IFR in a LIGHT SPORT Airplane - How it’s done

In this video, I explain the recent upgrade I made to the Vans RV-12 Light Sport airplane to make it IFR capable and IFR legal. This includes flying into IMC (instrument meteorological conditions).
I’ll explain what I had to do to install a new Garmin GPS175 IFR navigator, then we’ll go for a flight to practice some RNAV GPS approaches and follow the glide slope down to LPV minimums. LPV minimums on an approach are as good or better than an ILS approach in most cases.
The only way to legally fly Instrument Flight Rules in a Light Sport Aircraft is to take a close look at the regulations for experimental aircraft.
Link to the Varla Eagle One V2 Scooter for $100 off! Use the code “Florida” at checkout.
varlascooter.com/FloridaFlying
00:00 Intro
01:24 Update
02:22 IFR Legal in LightSport?
04:00 GPS Install Process
07:08 Test Flight
11:04 Varla Scooter
13:08 1st Approach
14:08 2nd Approach
16:18 Windy Landing

[@FloridaFlying]

Link to the Varla Eagle One V2 Scooter for $100 off! Use the code “Florida” at checkout. varlascooter.com/FloridaFlying

[@kellycrain56]

Discount code not working

[@FloridaFlying]

Are you still having issues? I just got a referral notice email about an order

[@doubledeeeeeeez]

Nice. Just a lil advice from an Avionics tech here since 1993. Please Please Please do something with the wires you have begging to chafe back there behind the instrument panel. Didn't see the end finish but if it's still like time stamp 5:15 you are gonna have issues real soon. Tye wrap and adel everything you see floppin. What you can't secure with an adel to the frame with hardware at least every 6 inches you need to wrap with spiral wrap or some sort of kevlar curly wrap. You will have issues if you leave it like that I promise. Also, I would not fly with the scooter. Not before completely tearing into it to inspect the battery and make sure it's properly cushioned with foam and securely installed. IF that lipo bomb decides to go off while you are in flight you will be a goner. Just pull up some videos of Lipo explosions. Other than that, good job on the IFR approaches. I would love to own a plane like that.

[@rv-ation9603]

Great video. I "met" your airplane when the previous owner had flown it to Apopka where we were all attending the 2 day light sport inspection course. It's a nice ride! I own a -12 (Washington State). All things aside, I'd never fly it IMC or even at night for that matter without a backup display and backup AHRS. 4K+ hours flying cargo in all weather, single pilot day/night all over the US taught me a few things about how much of a fan boy I am for backup instruments!! One of the downsides of glass is you can't just go partial panel. It's all or none. Seems like a link in the chain to not have them! Have fun, be safe, I enjoyed the video.

[@wds6900]

Thanks for documenting the installation. The upgrade looks like a blast!

[@mhilderbrand7693]

I bought a scooter with the intentions of taking it with me to flyins. Feature creep set in , and I ended up with one that has similar specs as yours. I can still take it with me, but it wouldn’t be easy 😀. Really really fun to ride on!

[@nickm764]

Good Job Pedro! Good to see our little airport getting some screen time :)

[@SoaringMidlo]

Awesome upgrade. That will make the RV so capable and keep you from scud temptations. Nice scooter too.

[@carlynmartin3886]

I'm like 1 min in on the first video of your channel and let me tell you I am stoked! Your editing style is what I love a bit of Casey neistat and Peter McKinnon mixture with your own flair. I been searching for weeks to find a aircraft vlog style and I think I have found it here with you! Keep up the great work man I look forward to binge watching your channel!

[@FloridaFlying]

Hey thank you so much! I try to keep it honest and straightforward. Welcome to the channel, I hope you enjoy it

[@Mlgraham22]

Just came across your channel and was shocked to see you flying out of Arthur Dunn! I grew up in Titusville and learned to fly there way back in the 70’s. That little airport hasn’t changed much over the years except for the skydiving school. That wasn’t a thing in the 70’s. It’s great to see the old hometown and surroundings from your plane. I miss all those water and space center views! I’ll definitely subscribe and binge-watch to catch up. If you’re ever in the ATL area let me know and I’ll treat you to lunch at PDK.

[@FloridaFlying]

Welcome to the channel! I love this little airport with all my heart. I would love to see it with a little restaurant, it’s the perfect spot for it. Thank you for the invitation, I will let you know if I am in the area. Thank you for the kind words

[@dangreen3702]

Thanks for this. Hoping to do something similar in my FlightDek D180 equipped RV12.

[@N937LC]

I’m getting ready to do this in my Bristell. I have twin G3X but adding the G5 for redundancy because my G3X shares the same ADHRS. I do have battery backup on the G3X but feel safer with the redundancy.

[@FlyMeAirplane]

You may know this but you can dial the minimum alt into the dynon and it will say "approaching minimums" and then "minimum". 80 lbs for a scooter is way too much! Fun video, excellent editing.

[@imbtmn9836]

Fantastic, it just goes to show what a good light sport can do with the right gear and pilot. You need to spend a hell of a lot more money now to only get incremental improvements over what you have here.

[@1shARyn3]

That hunting is common on the Dynon Autopilot servos ---- it's minor --- you get used to it fairly quickly

[@speedomars3869]

When in Class E, D or C, you must remain 500 feet below, 2,000 feet laterally or 1,000 feet above any clouds. This is to allow an IFR aircraft popping out of the clouds sufficient time to see and avoid a VFR aircraft. In Class B airspace, we merely have to remain clear of clouds.

[@vanessaleon6398]

❤ some you did awesome you did fantastic thank you very good excelente

[@pachabeche]

Love you p!

[@GetOffMyyLawn]

Can you talk about the issues with selling a home built / experimental aircraft? Is the builder liable if the airplane has issues after it is sold?

[@EricHaskins71]

Passed my light sport check ride out here in Oregon. Hope to ferry my Remos SLSA back to Zephyrhills FL (or where ever I can find a hanger lol) in the spring. Going nuts with weather out here need to get another plane in FL so I can keep flying till then. Want my Sport CFI and need 100 more hours lol

[@FloridaFlying]

Congratulations! Put yourself on every hangar waiting list that you can. It’s tough out here and sheltair just raised the prices again. Ferrying that plane will get a good chunk of that 100 hour requirement!

[@SuperMudbog]

When you get it here I wanna come flying! I live in Tampa, about 15 minutes from KTPA actually

[@salimnasir5231]

to flying by light weight aircraft with IFR does it need PPL or for the LSA license its all needed ?

[@mitchbronson6750]

Very nice panel. I previously owned an RV6A at Dunn. Really miss it. Lost my medical so I’ve gone back to flying an ultralight trike. It’s the blue and white one. Hope to meet you sometime. Maybe at a breakfast. 👍

[@FloridaFlying]

Hey Mitch, I’m glad you kept flying even after losing the medical. I’d like to chat with you about flying trikes, they’ve caught my attention for a while now. I think o saw you one time, maybe tuning the engine? I’ll stop by next time I see you out there

[@mitchbronson6750]

Sounds good, look forward to meeting you.

[@bransonlariscy4660]

So you need an insterment rating to fly these approaches in a light sport. And then do you need a private pilot license to get your instrument rating. Or can you get an interment rating with only an LSA certificate and no medical etc.?

[@renevelez9444]

Nice!

[@burakaskin27]

for ifr do i need grap instruments?? just gps is enough or waas is enough?

[@edwino.4773]

Very cool! Glad you got it all working! How do you tweek the AP to remove oscillation?

[@FloridaFlying]

The Dynon has some vertical gain settings, I lowered them by 1 or two points. I’ll have to see if I notice a difference

[@edwino.4773]

@@FloridaFlying Awesome! Great content! Now You’re making me look into experimentals as opposed to Certified.! Haha.

[@jimjohnson3244]

@@edwino.4773you would be much happier with them than certified.

[@Valeriarupertjones]

Show👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@paperclipmaniac]

I ended up getting a electric skateboard to cruise around KGIF and to throw in the baggage compartment. Not as easy to ride or as fast as the scooter, but it's lighter and more compact.

[@FloridaFlying]

Yeah that’s sounds like the way to go

[@raf444]

very cool upgrade! I only have one questino, you are still flying under VFR rules and shooting approaches under VMC right? or could you actually file an IFR flightplan and with IMC on that setup?

[@FlyMeAirplane]

Looks like he only has one Attitude instrument (the Dynon) so technically, yes he could fly IFR, but if the Dynon quits he's going to be in trouble.

[@FloridaFlying]

Yeah I haven’t really been in serious IMC yet, looking at getting a Dynon pocket panel as a backup. I do have my phone connected to the GPS175 which has its own AHRS so that is the current backup. With the Dynon pocket panel I could have 3 independent attitude indicators, but with ground speed only…

[@JulienGordon]

it looks lean bro! Hope that doesn't bug you :D

[@Jazz3006]

I'm a bit confused about why you are keeping the LSA designation at this point. If you can fly IFR, you're not a sport pilot. So, why keep the aircraft restricted?

[@realediciocco1598]

Very nice panel upgrade. How long did it take?

[@FloridaFlying]

Thank you friend, it took me about two weeks to finish it during the afternoons after work. It was a simple install when it comes to panel upgrades

[@mcorrive12]

I would agree with a few other comments that i would wany to have a backup display like a G5 or equivalent. Is a backup display (attitude, airspeed, altimeter) not a requirement for flight into IMC? I always thought it was.

[@FloridaFlying]

I also agree, I am thinking of putting in a Dynon pocket panel or connecting my iPhone to the GPS175 ahrs as a backup (that’s what is in the video thumbnail) The gps has a built in AHRS and is on its own circuit.

[@mcorrive12]

Ah, I went back to the intro and I see the phone with the AHRS display now. Definitely a great setup for training. Call me conservative, but I still think I'd want a permanently installed backup display. This setup you have is definitely my goal when I eventually get around to building. Nicely done! Including an autopilot with "Level" button as a safety for a short encounter with spacial disorientation.

[@SoaringMidlo]

Good idea for backup. I use iPhone and Stratux ahrs as a backup AI

[@user-fm7ye7cj5e]

This topic has been hashed out so many times regarding the legality of an ELSA into IMC conditions. Ignoring the question of whether an RV12 should ever be flown into actual IMC conditions, especially without a back up like a G5. It would be nice to have a DAR or FSDO actually chime in on the issue. I would think the OL and appropriate minimum equipments would be enough, but then there is the ASTM which supposedly prohibits it. But, really nice set up for training and staying current. And I would think would be fine for those pesky marine layers. This is exactly what I have thought about doing if I buy a 12. Again, I would want a backup G5 in that panel. Gonna be a really bad day if that PFD screen goes out in IMC. We get that stupid low layer occasionally that is just at 1000 ft agl with no icing and it sits there taunting us VFR pilots waiting for it to burn off. Also nice to have in case that layer slides on in while out flying and trying to get back. Nice install.

[@FloridaFlying]

It’s an interesting topic. I feel that if an experimental amateur built airplane is legal for IFR if properly equipped, there’s no reason for an ELSA to be prohibited if equipped. ASTM standards do not supersede the FAA, and many experimental aircraft do not comply with ASTM. ASTM can make a recommendation only. If the FAA says I can do it in my operating limitations, then I can do it legally (maybe not entirely safely). And yes, right now my backup horizon will be my iPhone connected to the GPS175 AHRS. The 175 is on its own circuit independent of the Dynon so I feel that it is a good backup in case the Dynon fails. I am also considering the Dynon pocket panel as a backup.

[@steven2145]

I am with you on this. No backup G5 or uAvionix equivalent AI and no nav radio (or a backup gps like a 430) there is no way I would fly it in IMC.

[@its4michael]

@@steven2145 backup nav radio...cmon. Your cell phone has better capabilities! Add a backup artificial horizon (which doesn't have to be certified) and this setup is better than any AC flying radios!

[@steven2145]

@@its4michael We are talking about IFR into IMC. Yes, I want a certified backup. In VMC I am happy to navigate with my ipad.

[@eclipso104]

There is no debate on this topic. An experimental airplane is allowed to be equipped and flown ifr if the operating limitations do not explicitly prohibited it. The only difference between a light sport experimental and a normal experimental is the gross weight and the certificate required to fly it. If a holder of a ppl and valid medical flys a light sport then it can be flown as if it is a regular ppl aircraft. If a light sport is flown by a holder of only a light sport certificate then it may only be flown as a light sport plane. I.e. a light sport plane may be flown at night so long as equipped with required lighting but only by a ppl since an LSA pilot is prohibited from flying at night.

[@jleiben72]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though experimental and light sport were two different categories. How are you both? Light sport are certified aircraft which is why you can receive instruction in them but have weight and power restrictions, compared to experimental.

[@FloridaFlying]

There are SLSA which are “Special Light Sport Aircraft” which are the “certified” versions. I have an ELSA which is experimental light sport. The plane has the weight and speed restrictions with the added freedom of experimental airplanes

[@jimjohnson3244]

@@FloridaFlyingcan you still fly this without a PPL and only a sport pilots license in the experimental category? What about without a medical?

[@FloridaFlying]

@jimjohnson3244 yes you can, however you have to fly it under sport pilot rules (VFR daytime only). If you are a private pilot you can fly it under PPL rules

[@droge192]

Audio recording in the plane was BRUTAL! I could feel it on my teeth.

[@ryanweber9897]

What?

[@aeromatt]

maybe its fud but I thought the issue was with the Rotax non-certified engine being restricted from ifr as well.

[@FloridaFlying]

Lots of experimental engines legally flying IFR out there. Lycoming thunderbolt engines are all experimental too

[@greensagan]

Yes this is my understanding as well: that the non-certified 912 engines are not approved for imc.

[@Nalaislonley_]

It doesn’t matter if it’s a light sport as long as it’s set up with IFR gear. Anyone with a PPL can fly a light sport IFR or above 10,000 for that matter. It’s the person with the Sport Pilot LICENSE who cannot fly IFR. It’s a licensee restriction not an aircraft restriction.

[@steveasher9239]

😎😎😎

[@denniscarew2955]

Do you have Pitot Heat?

[@FloridaFlying]

I do not. It’s not required for experimental airplanes. I avoid anything close to icing conditions

[@MAGApepe]

is that allowed to put the gps antenna under the cowling ??

[@donzo4784]

its fiberglass, so it really shouldnt effect the signal no?

[@FloridaFlying]

It is fiberglass. Per Vans instructions the Dynon gps antenna should be mounted under it. I thought the Garmin antenna could be placed right next to it. So far no signal issues but we will see over time

[@utah20gflyer76]

Very capable Instrument platform is subjective. Personally I think you need a turbo and deice system to be very capable. Otherwise you are barely capable because you are very limited in the winter. My Mooney is barely capable as well.

[@FloridaFlying]

Yeah, that’s true. Capable in the sense of availability of information and ease of use

[@gmcjetpilot]

Did you build this? It shows N2222V was built by Vans not you? Otherwise, you can not do condition inspection. IFR, you need Avionics shop to do pitot static, not just throw a GPS in, even if you built it. Do a new W&B? So are you legal?

[@FloridaFlying]

All ELSA aircraft show that they are built by the factory that produced the kit. You can deviate from the kit in an ELSA only after airworthiness is granted. I had an avionics shop do my pitot static and transponder check which is logged in the aircraft’s logbook. I have an updated weight and balance after my GPS was installed. I have my light sport repairman inspection certificate issued with my name and N2222V on the card. Any other questions?

[@gmcjetpilot]

@@FloridaFlying OK, I am a lifetime EAA member, built two RV's, latest an RV7. I am not up on ELSA..... In the case of both my RV's I was listed as manufacture. So your plane is not a SLSA. I assume you have repairman certificate? May be that is not needed for LSA? I recall you can go through through training and then be able to work on your LSA, even if you did not build it? Do you know if that is correct? I ask because I am a CFI-I-II, ATP and like to understand LSA's better I know the LSA pilot requirements, but the maintenance I was not sure. I will study the topic. I thought it was the same as any EAB kit plane, like all RV's (not LSA), both in the way it is registered (builders name as manufacture) and the ability to do condition inspection (repairman's certificate). Apparently it is different. Fly safe. Those LPV approaches are slick.

[@brokencactus9854]

Don’t you still need an IFR pitot-static test?

[@FloridaFlying]

Yes you do. I actually just got that completed

[@DanFrederiksen]

Nice although that trivial functionality should just be part of the main display, not a 5k$ additional unit for no reason.

[@FloridaFlying]

Yeah, it should. I think in the future Dynon will add the functionality once they have the approval. It’s all just paperwork

[@its4michael]

IFR flight requires certified equipment the experimental aircraft does not. Dynon has certified equipment (pretty much everything they carry can be ordered certified or not), He chose the Garmin because of the space available and the size of the certified Garmin not because Dynon doesn't have certified avionics. There are no differences in the functionality between a Dynon certified display or one that is not certified, your just paying for a $5000 piece of paper from the FAA stating it is certified. Only certified equipment can be installed in certified aircraft (for primary flight instrumentation that is) but in experimentals you can use much cheaper, entirely capable, often better systems and they don't have to have that expensive FAA stamp.

[@saulnier]

​@@its4michaelMe thinks the bulk of that $5,000 goes to the legal retention fee and product liability insurance premium budget cost line item. Anyway @FloridaFlying, sweet setup!

[@jmtuts]

But you also need to be IFR Rated, correct?

[@FloridaFlying]

Correct, you need to be IFR rated, current, and have a medical or basic med. same requirements apply

[@jmtuts]

Should have been an important point, I am a 62 year old student sport pilot who can't get a 3rd class@@FloridaFlying

[@ChopperChad]

So IFR only and not IMC, correct?

[@FloridaFlying]

IFR and IMC. It would be pretty unreasonable to ask for deviations constantly to avoid clouds when operating in the IFR system. Rotax and ASTM can make suggestions so they say “No IFR”, however the governing body of the FAA supersedes whatever they say. If the FAA and my OP limits say I can fly IFR, I can fly IFR

[@FloridaFlying]

generalaviationnews.com/2017/04/17/can-you-fly-ifr-in-an-lsa/

[@f.n.schlub2269]

ADS-B ?

[@FloridaFlying]

Yes it has adsb

[@nickpapagiorgio5056]

Dynon makes a beautiful glass cockpit ! Wow absolutely beautiful gotta love vans rv planes.

[@1shARyn3]

"IFR legal" ---- make sure that your Ops Limitations state that. Most experimental Ops Limits don't include that in their verbiage -- especially on LSAs since ASTM F2245-16c para 9.2.2 Expressly PROHIBITs flying in IMC. IFR, ok, but not IMC --- unless your Ops Limits have added those provisions. Don't be caught flying IMC during a ramp check if your Ops Limits don't have that authorization.

[@FloridaFlying]

generalaviationnews.com/2017/04/17/can-you-fly-ifr-in-an-lsa/

[@FloridaFlying]

ASTM can only provide a recommendation, what the FAA says overrules it. My Op limits say IFR approved. It would be unreasonable to operate IFR and constantly ask for deviations to avoid clouds.

[@Dronesvspeople]

Right next to my house

[@jamestunedflat8942]

Florida man out runs bike cop on a kick scooter.

[@edmoore3910]

Only a fool!!

[@reyray7184]

Is this click bait? 🤔

[@theogriengl958]

This plane is a disgrace when it comes to the optic. In my opinion, this indicates the technical condition of this aircraft. Safty first !!! I am not even talk about the optics..😢😢😢

[@FloridaFlying]

Are you talking about how the plane looks?

[@gmcjetpilot]

Electric bikes shoukd be limited in speed or licensed as they are in other states and countries. 40 mph is way to fast for a small wheel stand up scooter. You ar egoing to get hurt bad on that thing.

[@bladi-senpai9398]

U weak bro 😂

[@sport2175]

The speedometer in my pickup goes to 115 mph. Should that also be speed limited? A larger speeding vehicle is 100 times more dangerous to others than a scooter.

[@itzsabian5064]

Ok Karen.

[@haskellcrow3524]

You can go 40 on a bicycle without motors.

[@chadg130]

This country has so many regulations, the founding fathers are turning in their graves. We do not need more regulations and government, we need LESS.