How Effective Are Vegan Diets for Muscle Growth?

[@ladyjm8134]

Thank you! Im so exhausted of hearing vsgans dont get enough protein. We do, just differently. Ive built so much muscle over the year as a vegan as proof. Im gonna nake sure to send this video to any and everyone who still spouts the myth

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

You definitely can get plenty of protein following a vegan diet. Although it may take a little more conscious effort 👍

[@lolololalala8225]

So what do you take as protein source and how much? Stupid thing here is that vegan based products are more expensive than meat based. And they have less protein in it so I have to get more. But I want to use more vegan stuff instead of meat.

[@nick7072]

@@lolololalala8225 well, the trick is not to use vegan products, but cook vegan food. Don't use processed food and you'll be fine. Peas are cheap, lentils and soy are relatively cheap.

[@ladyjm8134]

@@lolololalala8225 it's not more expensive. a pound or block of tofu costs about $2 at around 45g. The proteins I eat on a day-to-day basis are tofu, tempeh (smoked tempeh makes great bacon), rice and beans are a complete protein, Textured Veg Protein (TVP) costs about $6 a bag w/ 14 servings at 17g, Lentils cost about $1 at Walmart for 14 servings at 9g, 1 cup of chickpeas is about 14g for a $2 can, and Seitan (making it your own is the best so protein amount is up to you but you can buy store bought). You can eat edamame, soy or pea protein fortified milk, yogurt with pea protein, I eat some processed vegan items if I'm on the go, protini noodles for pasta dishes, and I do drink a rice and pea protein shake the 4 days I lift during the week (it'll only give me an extra 30g). Check out @sarahsvegankitchen and @dereksarno here on youtube. They have some great ways to incorporate more protein and make your food taste good too. Plus, I haven't even counted the protein that veggies provide too, even in small amounts, they count. I hope this all helps!

[@Avistew]

@@lolololalala8225 You will want a combination of legumes and grains. Legumes include peas, lentils and beans, of which there are tons of varieties so you can usually find some pretty cheap ones. Some of my favourites are chickpeas, black beans and coral lentils but again, dozens of choices there. Grains include rice, wheat (including stuff made from wheat like bread, pasta, etc), oats, barley and tons more. Combine the two over the day (many dishes combine them in one meal) and you'll have a good source of protein. It will also have plenty of carbs, but carbs are a good source of fuel and they help fill you up. If you go for whole grains they'll have a lower glycemic index, and you can add vegetables with plenty of fibers to help keep you full. It's a bit more work than just grabbing eggs or chicken and having it with broccoli at every meal but it's more fun to have variety anyway, and if you prefer a routine you can find a mix you really like and go with it as often as you want.

[@dirimi6352]

Very cohesive and informative video, thanks

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

No problem 👍

[@harrisonmuecke7495]

One thing that may have been good to go over is caloric density. Plant based protein-dense sources with low caloric profiles aren’t as ubiquitous as animal based protein-dense sources.

[@Lb-ri5wr]

never heard of protein powder?

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Very true. I alluded to this towards the end of the video, where vegans diets are probably a little harder to get sufficient protein within the same calorie constraints. In this case, plant-based protein supplementation can be helpful 👍

[@harrisonmuecke7495]

@@Lb-ri5wrI understand protein powder exists, but that doesn’t address the underlying issue. Relying on a supplement to hit nutritional goals makes the diet deficient by nature.

[@Lb-ri5wr]

@@harrisonmuecke7495 you must be against the development of modern medicine since we aren't immune to all diseases by nature 🤷‍♂️

[@nick7072]

@@harrisonmuecke7495 Soy minced meat is pretty dense. 325 calories, 50 g of protein. Sure, it's not sexy, and you need to be creative to make it tasty, but it's not a supplement. Otherwise, go for lentils. 353 calories, 26 g of protein.

[@jacobdebernardi4385]

I never considered human muscle as a source of protein, time to begin my cannibalism bodybuilding arc then

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

🤣

[@sherwinmoscow9455]

Thank you. As a vegan for 25 years, I have certainly been exposed to many people whose beliefs re: my way of eating are critical about how my diet negatively affects my level of fitness and muscle growth. I think your main point is, as a vegan, I need to ensure I'm getting enough protein. Also, coupled with this, as a 70 year old male, any protein is less bioavailable, so bumping up my protein is a good strategy.

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Exactly right 👍

[@bunnerkins]

When I became vegetarian, my mom asked me "how much protein are you eating?" and I asked her, "how much protein are you eating?". And then she stopped asking me that question.

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

There are PLENTY of good vegetarian protein sources. Skim milk, low-fat yogurt, eggs, low-fat cheese etc. 👍

[@4tonmike]

Nutrition aside, yeah being annoying is a great strategy to destroy a relationship.

[@Anon-nv7bp]

@@FlowHighPerformance1 ironic, none of those are vegan. Basically, animal products are the best source of protein. Followed by legumes, nuts & seeds, I believe.

[@bunnerkins]

@@4tonmike If you knew my mom you'd nuke that relationship too.

[@bunnerkins]

@@FlowHighPerformance1 The point I was making with my mom is that most average people have no idea how much protein they are getting. But they sure do love to tease vegans about it.

[@sebastianbarron3054]

Pure gold content always! Congrats😊

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Cheers 👍

[@Rahwbin]

Im not sure about the studies used for this information. If they grab a couple of average joes who arent used to weight training, put them on any sort of program and they will all book significant progress regardless. Give both groups the same amount of protein supplements and caloric restrictions and it will yield similar results obviously. But get a study together where the same gets measured for experienced lifters and track their mps, with a 60% carb 15% fat 25% protein calorie distribution. Then you will have a much more precise result and probably see greater differences between groups. Since one group has to compensate having to eat 20% more protein to maximize mps to the upper thresholds, therefore have less calorie % left for carbs. Wich will significantly aid experienced lifters into having better training sessions, compared with less protein needed to maximize mps over the long term you will see big differences.

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Yes, it is certainly not conclusive data as of yet. I would like to see more research directly comparing muscle growth with vegan vs omnivorous diets in trained subjects 👍

[@Rahwbin]

@@FlowHighPerformance1 Love your vids man!

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

@@Rahwbin glad to hear it 👍

[@Snerdles]

I think a better question is not IF the diet differences can be mitigated but rather does it happen in the real world. I can't remember where I saw it, possibly in a house of hypertrophy video, but they were reviewing a study that was comparing grip strength broken down by male/female and omniverous/vegan. They found the vegan males had lower grip strenghth on average than even the omnivorous females. So while you CAN be very careful to make sure you get enough protein on a vegan diet, most people actually don't.

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Yes, this is true. In reality, a vegan diet probably makes it more difficult to achieve a high protein intake 👍

[@fordtimelord8673]

If you are on a strict vegan diet you will eventually suffer from anemia and possible nervous system damage. If you take the vegan approach you will need supplements of food that it processed so that it is fortified with b12.

[@hodlcannabis6944]

Sea vegetation offers that

[@edgbarra]

Luckly B12 is one of the cheapest supplements in the market, so no problem getting that

[@merkamark]

Just a side note B12 is not made in animals. Animals are also supplemented with it.

[@jaafarameen9295]

4:24 why human muscle was mentioned in the graph?💀

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

I'm assuming they retrieved this data from a small muscle biopsy

[@crookedpaths6612]

Buffalo can get big and muscly but it has to eat near constantly. Lion on other hand feeds one large meal every 2-3 days.

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Interesting observation, but I'm not sure how relevant this is for humans performing resistance training 🤔

[@xclusive2168]

So if i eat lentills or peas with rice its a complete protein?

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Im not sure of the exact amino acid profile of each food source. However, you are likely getting a sufficient amount of essential amino acids throughout your diet as a whole 👍

[@user-fp6rn2km4i]

Best video I've seen on this topic. Do you think a vegan diet including protein supplements will be more expensive than an omnivores diet with supplements?

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Good question. No idea to be honest. Also probably depends where you live, and what foods are cheap/accessible 🤔

[@julianruiz3978]

I’m vegetarian, not vegan but costs in general are much cheaper than when I used to eat meat. I’m trying to put on weight so I do go through a lot of food but there are ways to really cut down on costs just like like with most diets. I never eat beyond meat unless if at a restaurant every once in a while so I think that’s a cost saver too. My supplements including protein powder cost about $75 a month if I had to guess. I imagine vegan eating saves money in a similar way too.

[@nick7072]

​@@julianruiz3978 Definitely saving money when buying in bulk. Lentils, soy meat, nuts... I think I spend 40-50 euros on my main food, and then maybe 40-50 euros on veggies and some snacks. The most expensive part is probably protein at like 40 euros a month, lol.

[@shivakezia]

thank u for ur information

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

no problem 👍

[@garyraffertyfootball]

Hi mate, great videos. What software do you use for the slides? If you don't mind sharing!

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Powerpoint

[@garyraffertyfootball]

@@FlowHighPerformance1 ah ok haha. Must be the transitions that made it look like something else

[@xclusive2168]

Whats best for feel of fullness for longer protein, fiber, or fats?

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Foods higher in protein, fibre and water content are generally going to be more satiating 👍

[@jacobdebernardi4385]

Search for satiation index of foods. You'll see the humble plain baked potato beats everything else.

[@xclusive2168]

@@jacobdebernardi4385 will do, thanks

[@jaafarameen9295]

All this is theoretical because for example 100g of lentils have the same or even more protein than a 100g of chicken breast but the calories are much higher and it’s more satiating so it’s much harder to eat further more the issue of digestive problem,bloating,diarrhea and the gases makes people avoid eating much plant based protein so it’s very hard to eat that much of protein

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Very true. It is usually going to be practically more difficult to get sufficient protein via a vegan diet compared with an omnivorous diet 👍

[@epicbrowndragon]

Eat what you want, but animal protein is higher quality. There is a saying in Hungary “Hungry person, Angry person” …a lot of Vegans feel like they have a chip on their shoulder (not that happy)

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

I don't know about the emotional side of this topic, but I think vegan diets are fine for health and body composition 👍

[@pathtooptimalhealth]

@@FlowHighPerformance1I’m the first to acknowledge that people have to eat according to what their bodies need. 😊 Personally, I’m a pescatarian…(can eat other meat, don’t desire it) Can’t eat bread nor can I have dairy that’s not sheep or goat. (Again, like with the meat that’s not fish- don’t desire it) Each person, from diet to lifting weights has to learn to research and then listen to their bodies needs. I’m in my 50th year, have no issues running 21.5k 3xs a week… …in the winter when it’s negative -6C without a shirt Going for my 150kg(330lb) iso bench (journaling on my channel), etc. *Point is you can’t do any of this by someone telling you what is right for you. There is a base line and you have to ‘know they self’ … and have fun. Or it won’t last… or, you will be miserable Are all vegans miserable? Probably not…but there is an ego status to what people do in life… …from saving the snails and whales, to the diet they want everyone to have. (Nothing wrong with helping and pointing out possible paths as you are) 😊 So… If someone can actually be Vegan and it works, I applaud 👏 them! But for many people it’s like forcing the wrong pair of shoes on doing what is mentally’right’ in that age/milieu. Thanks for listening *btw, I’m original poster - sorry, posted from my gaming channel. (Old - but you gotta keep it playful) Thanks for the ear my friend… …enjoy the path your on!

[@dragan176]

Eat what you want, not who you want

[@pathtooptimalhealth]

@@dragan176if that’s a comment against eating animals - I respect your view. Do keep in mind, if we all became vegan the animals you tried to save would be eaten… …by other animals. I get the protest mindset, and the whole ‘righteous’ stance on life… …ensure it’s holistic. After all what’s the point if we can’t treat our fellow species with respect. 😉

[@dragan176]

@@pathtooptimalhealth The animals we eat are bred into existence for our purpose. They often live horrible lives. They wouldn't exist without the demand we put on their flesh. What you're saying isn't true, but it's a very common myth, so I understand why you're saying it. We should all treat each other with respect, but if someone hurts someone else, I will try to step in and do something. Almost every person wouldn't hurt an animal, if they had the choice not to. I just try to help them to see that that's what they are doing. I did the same thing, I can't judge anyone

[@Shevock]

Everybody who's purposefully aiming to put on muscle is intentional about protein. So if your powder is cow milk based or a vegan mix, it doesn't matter. The fact is, most people aren't carnivore or vegan. E.g., I'm vegetarian, so milk or eggs are certainly an option; so whey or Orgain powder are both an option. I currently use Orgain, which has a balanced mix of plant proteins, and I still credit my ability to put on muscle to genetics.

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

True. Total daily protein appears to be what is most important 👍

[@Magnulus76]

True. Unless you have exceptional genes or you are on gear, you aren't going to get very jacked, regardless of what you eat. The more realistic goal is getting physically fit, and that doesn't require eating alot of additional protein, just a varied diet.

[@bobnoxious719]

Great vid, thanx. Omnivore here, love meat, but have to use a plant based protein ( Pea ) due to bph. I used ON Gold Standard Whey protein for the longest time, great flavor, but whey affects the prostate and pinches off the urethra. Sucks but part of being a man. I have been wondering about this topic for some time so thanx again. Would it be beneficial to take EAA's?

[@NJN23]

Where did you read/hear that whey pinches off the urethra?

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

You will get plenty of EAA's with a regular high-protein diet, so I generally wouldn't recommend them. Although it may have a small benefit in the case of a highly plant-based diet 👍

[@bobnoxious719]

@@NJN23 it's dairy so it has an impact on the prostate if you have bph. Didn't have to read it, I experienced it. If I drank a whey protein drink, I had issues.

[@s2korpionic]

I've done both vegan and omnivore for decades, it resulted in me being sick and fat. Going carnivore a year ago fixed it all.

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

very interesting that a carnivorous diet was most helpful for you 👍

[@premswarup4232]

Need a video on Vegetarian vs Omnivorous

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

Maybe for a future video 👍

[@argentianguis6510]

Here's a good starting point: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19678968/

[@ICcccreg]

How about eating meat with lentils?

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

That is completely fine 👍

[@jaysimpson6857]

I wish so much that the vegan diet didn’t cause me digestive and autoimmune issues, I don’t even like meat but it’s all that keeps me healthy.

[@edgbarra]

Did you test exactly what food was the problem? Usually there are just a few ingredients that you need to eliminate, depending on your specific health issues, not all plants

[@jaysimpson6857]

@ Yes, I’ve identified about 5 foods and 5 ingredients causing high antibody reactions through blood testing. Grains and nuts were big offenders which are obviously crucial with a vegetarian diet, anyway all of my medical conditions have been cured through avoidance of the offending foods and ingredients.

[@argospanoptes4826]

Don't eat entirely a beef after this video.

[@Jtking3000]

Beef bone broth contains large amounts of high quality protein, vitamin B12, collagen, and creatine and the cows can eat local pasture for most of their diet. Vegan diets require finicky management to get even close to the shortfall created by not eating animal products. Since most vegans aren't subsistence farmers they just resort to eating the imported goods that use tonnes of pesticides and chemical fertilisers. Not exactly saving the planet.

[@FlowHighPerformance1]

This sounds like more of an ethical discussion - rather than an objective take of the effectiveness on muscle growth 🤔

[@Jtking3000]

@@FlowHighPerformance1 Half of my post was about the nutrition which is a cornerstone of muscle growth. You either don't find or have difficulty finding the nutrition for maximal muscle growth from a vegan diet.

[@dosomestuff1949]

I wouldn’t say “to even get close”. U can get the same amount of nutrition on a vegan diet.

[@spartacusptolemaida]

Most of the protein intake will be based on soy products. Soy products tend to increase estrogen and lower testosterone which is the fundamental in building muscle.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

What's the evidence for this?

[@K4YM3Z]

This low t soy thing is exclusively peddled by right wing manosphere dudes selling supplements based on soy anyway. Phytoestrogens are not estrogens, and don't serve the same biological function.

[@spartacusptolemaida]

@@fellinuxvi3541 soy contains phytoestrogens. They can weakly mimic the actions of estrogens in the body that can lead to hormonal imbalances. I’m not saying you’ll get this by drinking a soy latte 😂, but a full vegan diet will definitely have an impact. You can hit the same amount of required protein as a vegan in order to grow muscle but after a certain point your test will eventually drop so will your gains.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

@@spartacusptolemaida I'm aware of the phytoestrogen thing as a theory, but have not seen any evidence that it's correct

[@Lb-ri5wr]

there are no health negatives associated with consuming soy