Floyd Rose Special - The Decline in Quality

[@marcelo.bassalo]

I had several saddles brake on my Floyd Rose Special. Since I bought a Gotoh FR, it's been two years without issues.

[@dexdeimos425]

Yes, the zinc is a weak point for sure with the FRS. I’m pretty sure the GOTOH ones are steel. Believe it or not, the cheap Wilkinson ones use steel also. 🤯

[@SidWalter]

Just dropped $84 on some made in Germany Schaller ones since about a week of owning the cheap $22 Floyd saddles the low e and g both stripped out completely under not much tension.

[@dexdeimos425]

Bummer - I’ve had that happen on a few as well. You definitely won’t have that issue with those nice steel Schaller replacements! 👌🎸🍻

[@thebluntandonly]

Just preordered the Dean Slime thats coming out this June and seen they are using this floyd... of course I've had a dozen floyds but never knew of these changes. Thanks!

[@A-1GINDALOON]

Great topic buddy!! Very informative. Keep 'em coming!

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks - I wasn’t too sure if people would be into this sort of thing. 🙏🎸

[@JohnBaker-vm1wf]

Strip the trem, and take a torch to it to increase the hardness. You may mess up the chrome a little (relicing!) , but if you're careful, you'll harden the knife-edges.

[@mattcunningham6]

Great video, thank you so much for the wonderful information!! 🎸

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks a bunch Matt! Super glad you dig this one! 🙏🎸🍻

[@tony_n316]

Excellent info! For years I defended the specials because I always had good luck with them, but the quality has definitely fallen off, and I hate saying that because I love the brand itself. As for their customer service, it’s terrible and they never respond. I sent an email about an issue I had with locking nuts I purchased directly from them and that was 2 years ago.. I followed up with several more emails asking for help and they never responded and I wasn’t sending a general inquiry email, I bought something from them, it was defective and I needed it replaced and they just ignored me.

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks Tony! Yikes, that's crazy brutal customer service, especially considering you purchased through them. Really sorry to hear that. I totally agree with you, I was a strong advocate of the brand and the FRS for years until these two recent post 2020 FRS trems that I have and then the zero response to my email. Interestingly, I did have a positive customer service experience with them many years ago before this recent radio silence. I purchased a Floyd Rose FRX from them directly right when they launched, but because I live in Canada there were a few logistical issues at the time getting it to me. They were super helpful then, but maybe that was because they were looking to make a sale? Anyway, I hope you managed to sort out that lock nut issue! There are too many players in the market these days for Floyd to be ignoring the consumer. Cheers!

[@BootyCollins-gf5er]

talking about customer service...last year around that time I emailed Schaller about a somewhat odd question and no less than the CEO himself answered me. That left me kinda speechless. Granted they are probably not as huge as FR, but for a small to midsize company with that name to have the boss man to respond to customer emails is astonishing. Maybe they had employee shortage at that time lol

[@ryant3600]

I used to upgrade my guitars with Floyds and Floyd specials. The specials are ok, better than those cheap "licensed" knockoffs, the last one i bought was for my Ibanez Jem jr back in 2018. I believe I got it for 80 bucks brand new, now they're about 100.00. But I learned a very very valuable lesson. And it's a secret but I'm willing to share it with you all. The Gotoh is about the same price maybe 10-20 bucks more depending, but way better than the specials and I prefer them over the OFR. Now go and enjoy those flutters and whammy tricks..

[@michaelnugent9758]

Yep. Can't go wrong with the Gotoh unit. I prefer it over the OFR as well. Solid stuff all around.

[@ryant3600]

@@michaelnugent9758 yep and costs a lot less

[@Ben-ld1qi]

My guitar came with Floyd Rose 1000, it's a Harley Benton Fusion III HH. The nut is 42mm (1.654") and the fingerboard radius is 305 mm (12.008"), am I going to have any issues with installing the Gotoh on it? I've been eyeing the Gotoh for a while and itching to buy it. I'm not going to install the Gotoh posts though, that's a whole nother project.

[@marklombardi2407]

Great video. You answered alot of questions I had. Thanks

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks so much - super happy you found this useful! 🙏🎸

[@maraudermusic2714]

The Gotoh FR style bridges are an amazing substitute! Head to Philadelphia Luthier and Supply.

[@AuntAlnico4]

I've got the inexpensive Jackson Floyd Rose from 2018 and its great ! Not German quality from the day but it's good and works as it should.

[@Zombie_13x33]

my js series jacksons all have the small shim while the mick Thompson soloist with the 1000 has a large shim but it also has ibanez edge style saddles in it for some reason. i agree with you about the quality of the floyd rose special. i got a kramer that has one and it sucks. the jackson ones are better even tho ive stripped one saddle in 3 years or so. thanks for this video. i enjoy all the nerdy stuff like this. also.. they sell the shims separately on Amazon if anyone wants to buy them, i planned on it myself cus the difference is noticeable

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks a bunch - glad you dig the content! 🙏🎸🍻

[@allenwebster6329]

I just saw this video, i feel the same ive saw a decline in the special, you were talking about the shim between tge block and base plate, ive always taken that shim out i think its a tone sucker ive never had tuning issues after i remove it ,it sounds crazy buy yeah i take rhe shim i think diaplaces tone before it gets to the block ,i take mine out and put a 37mm brass block and leave the shim off ,ive never had a problem ,anyway take care stay safe

[@dexdeimos425]

It seems m most people do like you and take that shim out with some good results. I usually don’t bother because I’ll let the trem rest on the “deck” of the guitar for dive only and it keeps those fine tuner springs from destroying the finish. I don’t hear any real difference in tone doing this, but I suppose the trem actually touching the body would do something 🤷‍♂️. I’ll have to try shimless on a full floating setup. Thanks for the feedback! 🙏🎸🍻

[@Hyperlink1337]

sick video, great detail. i'm also canadian so i'm of course going to enjoy spending upwards of 700 bucks for a real 7 string floyd upgrade, thanks for highlighting the things i should beef up on the special so i can use it in another guitar without worrying about my eye getting popped by a string sliding out from the saddle

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks - glad you liked it! 🙏🎸

[@marklombardi2407]

I have had good luck with the Wilkinson. Thanks for the info.

[@dexdeimos425]

Me too! I’ve got quite a few of them now on a variety of guitars. My only complaint is with the fine tuning screws - they’re still smooth but they are now (in the last year or so) notching them too deeply where they touch the saddle string pinching screws. Not a massive issue, but as you’re fine tuning, when you hit the notch, your tuning will suddenly jump flat and then back to where it’s supposed to be once you pass the notch 🤣. We can’t win them all it seems! Cheers! 🙏🍻🎸

[@therocknrollguitarlounge7057]

Good video,, yes i have seen the decline in quality too.

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks! 🙏 It’s a real shame. The old FRS used to be my go to cheap bridge for cheap guitar projects.

[@Patrick-857]

I'm about to receive a Fender Japan ST62-FR that came stock with a Gotoh GE1996T. So glad I'm getting something that comes stock with the Gotoh. They are quality much less than a German made Floyd.

[@retropuffer2986]

Very thorough & informative.

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks! I’m really hoping Floyd sorts these issues out. 🙏🤷‍♂️🎸

[@user-pk8uf3er7v]

I currently have a special and so far it’s been good. But I am planning on upgrading to an original here very soon.

[@dexdeimos425]

The specials seem to do the job quite well. I have a few pushing the 10 year mark which are still holding tune in full float. 🤷‍♂️👌🎸

[@williamdistasio9358]

Don't bother get either a Shaller Lockmeister or the gotoh 1996

[@achromaheart2596]

Hi, do you have a video/review on the Wilkinson floyd sttle bridge you mentioned?

[@dexdeimos425]

Check out this review - I go through quite a few Wilkinson parts that ended up on this guitar and the bridge is one of them. Wilkinson pickups and locking trem - Profile Superstrat Upgraded! kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3qTYZSjpa6FaK8 You might want to check out this video of that guitar before the mods for a comparison of before and after: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKPNY2eul6qfsNEsi=ikVktbFIs1vUQ9wc

[@McHale72]

A bunch of years ago I had to replace a Floyd on a Jackson V and I purchased a Ping Floyd Rose. I don't know what happened to them but it's the best "cheap" Floyd I have.

[@dexdeimos425]

I’ve heard of these but never had the opportunity to try one. Everyone I talk to that has played them says pretty much the same thing you mentioned above. Cheers! 🍻🎸

[@GhettoGinny]

If you close your eyes, he sounds just like Norm Macdonald RIP!

[@zsrmx1]

Nice detailed info in this video, thanks. I have one on my 23' wolfgang standard. It is EVH branded, but I am not impressed. Was gonna just upgrade the saddle blocks to some FU tone ones, but the more I look into the Gotoh trem, I think that is were it's at. Japan made = quality. All I hear is good things about Gotoh.

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks a bunch! 🙏 Yes, the Gotoh 1996T is an incredible trem for the money. I have a few of them on some other guitars. Excellent craftsmanship. 👌🎸

[@gameroftheyear1000]

Gee, and I always crapped on the Floyd Specials………until now! Well obviously pre-2020 Specials. I’ve never had great experiences with Floyd Specials but these days I can chalk it up to inexperience with other bridges to compare and while I still prefer the Gotoh GE1996T Floyd over specials by a mile, I do have a new appreciation for the older generation Specials after this and maybe I should of given them a more fair chance. Great video!

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks a bunch for the kind words. I'd agree with you 100% about the Gotoh 1996T - even back a few years, the machining quality and consistency on those units was, and still is, on point. Cheers!

[@Bill-i1m]

The Floyd Rose Special is Floyd Rose's version of a licensed Floyd Rose

[@FulcrumsEdge]

a "licensed under FR patents." tremolo is not a genuine Floyd Rose, it is exactly what the name states: it is a tremolo that is manufactured by someone who paid royalties to Floyd Rose inc. for the legal licensing of the patented FR design, It is not allowed to carry the name or bear any association with Floyd Rose as a brand, and their level of quality varies wildly, from pure hot garbage, to tbh comparing or exceeding even FR Original standards, the latter however being less common than the hot garbage versions. It all just depends on who is manufacturing the licensed item... the Floyd Rose Special IS a genuine, made in the same factory as FLOYD ROSE 1000s, authentic Floyd Rose tremolo. period... end of story. The Floyd Rose special is a Floyd Rose. It's differences between it and a 1000 or FR Original are pretty well known, and were stated in the video. It is not "floyd roses own version of a trem.... that was a licensed copy.... of floyd roses... original design...." oh boi 🤣

[@metinoroxx764]

Dex! Brilliant Video! We need something that can fills the gap between proper Floyd Rose systems and the specials! I have a cheap Kramer and wouldn't mind a Floyd on it...but the price gap between something that will be OK for a few months or something that will just reliably work is huge! That's why I have been putting off modding my cheap Kramer because by the time I'm done (buying the Floyd System + Tuners) I might as well just buy secondhand Pro Mod that comes with a Floyd Rose 2000 system (if you factor in the price of any budget/low range guitar). Some low range guitars have really good pick-ups and half decent electronics... but the bridge, in particular, is always a let down!

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks Metino! 🙏 I feel your pain man. This is the greatest irritation of the shred guitar community. At this point, I think I’m firmly in the Gotoh 1996T camp. I know it’s a bit more expensive than these, but the quality improvement is staggering. For sure one of those will last you for quite a few years of shredding with no worries! Oh, the good old German made Schaller stuff is rock solid too. I’ve had some crazy good luck finding those used cheap. You might even have better luck finding those used in your market. Good luck my man! 🙏🎸👌🙌🍻

[@BootyCollins-gf5er]

check out Wilkinson Locking saddles, this is probably the greatest bridge update you could give to you cheap Kramer. Ive put those on my Baretta Special bridge and floated the thing. This is as good as it gets next to a double locking system without spending the money on "good" floyds.

[@metinoroxx764]

@@BootyCollins-gf5er thanks for the tip! I'll check that out!!

[@Supergrunged]

Only thing you failed to mention, Floyd Rose actually retooled in 2020. You can search what actually changed on the original, and would not surprise me, if things changed on the special as well through that process. And thank you, now I need to try that Wilkonson....

[@RHExperience103065]

Usually, when you know you’re gonna get that type of a Floyd rose you upgrade it with some titanium or some stainless steel and be done with it. Change out the block to a brass block and then you go.

[@williamdistasio9358]

Yeah, but you can't upgrade the knife edge. And if you could you might as well just spend the money and get a better Bridge. As much as I love the original Floyd Rose, the lockmeister is where it's at

[@comptonmccairo8591]

I’m not getting that crap thanks for showing 🤘🏻

[@dexdeimos425]

Glad it helped you out. Again, for the price point the Wilkinson locking trems are quite a bit better. Steel saddles as well. You have to order them from AliExpress direct though. The Baseplate has a similar quality of steel to the FRS. The Gotoh is superior all around, but quite a bit more expensive. Happy shredding! 🎸🙏🍻

[@allenwebster6329]

I have several guitars with Floyds on them i have 2 wolfgang standards they have the special on them i have a charvel san dimas it has i guess a real floyd on it and a ibanez with a special on it, on my wolfgangs a and my charvel i changed the sustain block on them i put a 34mm block on my charvel and the 37mm big L brass block on my wolfgangs, i left the shim out when i changed the sustain block on my charvel and wolfgangs, ive never had any turning issues,i think the shim to me is a tone sucker , i use my Floyd Rose trems alot never had a problem, do you think the shims take some vibration out before it reaches the block,let me know your thoughts on that, cool video take care

[@dexdeimos425]

Hi Allen - thanks for the kind words! Man, that is a really cool question and something I've never considered before regarding the shim affecting sustain. I don't notice any loss of sustain on my guitars, but I think that's because when I have them "decked" that shim is physically resting on the top of the body. I suppose this would probably assist with maintaining vibration (sustain) as opposed to the springs going to the claw absorbing and dampening/killing sustain? I'm definitely not good enough with physics to say for certain though. You definitely might be on to something. I will say, I have one guitar that has an OFR and a shim which is in full float. It's my '88 Lado and that thing weighs a TON, like Les Paul heavy. That one will sustain for days, but I think that might have something to do with the overall mass of the super heavy body and the neck-through construction. It also only has one pickup, so maybe it has slightly less magnetic interference/pull on the strings? Again, I definitely don't have the expertise to comment on that stuff, but you could totally be on to something. Fewer parts for vibrations to travel through seems like it should help maintain vibration/sustain. Cheers and thanks for the really cool question!

[@allenwebster6329]

@@dexdeimos425 hey thanks for the reply, If there is any difference i cant tell by ear , but when i took my charvel to have it set up after i bought it ,the guy that did set up ask me if i wanted to put the shim back in hes the one that was saying they are tone suckers that was a few yrs ago,since then ive learned how to set up my own stuff ive left the shim out on my wolfgangs and my san dimas, but i cant tell if theres a difference at all ,do you think changing the block out to a bigger one allow the guitar to sustain more, when doing that i really havnt noticed any more sustain than normal , just wondered if you can tell a difference in stock block verses a bigger block , Take care

[@dexdeimos425]

I change out for brass blocks quite often, but I don’t know if I could tell the difference in a direct A/B test. For me, it’s more the idea that more mass will improve sustain. Now, there is that crazy video by Jim Lill where he does some wild experiments on sustain with a cheap guitar, so I’m not too sure what to think 🤣🤦‍♂️. I also just plain don’t like the look of those cheap dull zinc blocks 🤷‍♂️. Oh, here’s the link to that Jim Lill video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6a5q6qYoLqIpK8si=9Guta9ohr4KXADp6

[@DarkMatterEclipse]

FR Special's have always been crap but sounds like they got crappier LOL. After decades of playing I've reached the point that if a guitar has something on it that needs swapping out, I don't buy the guitar. If I were to swap out parts, never would I consider a FR Special to begin with, go high quality even on a cheap guitar. Nice that you point out the better budget friendly alternatives in your vid for those people on a tight budget. FR original, 1000's, 1500's the base plates are made of hardened steel. Fr Specials are spot hardened. I work in a metal shop (nothing to do with guitars, but this is my guess). We tried cheaper steel and when the steel was bend in the press, it cracks, that was the end of that experiment. The ugly cut at the bend where the fine tuners are, is a score, a groove cut into the metal to bend into on the inner radius to prevent cracking on the outer radius. It also takes less pressure to bend the steel and helps prevent a warp in the steel when bending. I can't see warping being an issue on a piece that small but you never know. I might be wrong on all counts. In my experience, scoring is usually welded on the inner radius to put strength back in the steel, it would be interesting to see that plate all across the backside bend for shits n giggles. Maybe they're doing it just to prevent that flare/bulging out at the edges but I doubt it because it could be easily taken out after bending. Bottom line this points to lower grade metal as you might guess, maybe the metal just doesn't bend well. Anyways, thought you might find that interesting, maybe you already knew all that or maybe I geeked out a bit too much LOL.

[@dexdeimos425]

Lots of good info in here about steel! Thanks for sharing! 🎸🙏🍻

[@glennbojones777]

What a great breakdown of Floyd Rose Special tremolo , really useful info . I am starting to think that those long F logo’s are fake Floyd Rose tremolo units. You never mentioned loose bars I have had nothing but loose bar that can’t be tightened down

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks a bunch! I did mention the bars more towards the back of the video but very briefly. Me too brother, every single one I’ve had has a loose bar stock! 🤣 I completely agree - $25 for a replacement bar and collar is awfully annoying on a trem at this price point new. Funny you should mention the fakes, I was going to get into that but didn’t want to open a can of worms. The small shims used to be the quick telltale on fakes before 2020ish (the eBay ones with “no packaging” 😉😉). As for the long “F” logos, those are definitely authentic. The Kramer striker I have was purchased new. I literally took it out of the box from Kramer and that is the stock bridge. The chrome trem I was holding was purchased through an authorized dealer brand new as well, so I’m quite certain these are both authentic units, but a very keen eye on you and a good call on the possible fakes! I’ve unfortunately had a few of those and you’re spot on to call a logo. There’s almost always something a little off with the counterfeit ones when it come to that. Cheers! 🙏🎸🍻

[@johnvanmtb8775]

Do you know what model Wilkison bridge that is ? Thanks

[@dexdeimos425]

Wilkinson WODL1

[@clowncorpse7230]

I have the floyd rose special or more like special needs and it is too clunky and unstable to even use the strings pop out too

[@BlueberryStinkFinger62]

The Floyd Rose special are on $1,300 guitars you Left that part out..

[@Wyldwulf]

Thanks for covering the block shim...TIL its purpose. I just assumed it was there to provide more resistance to the springs against the tuners or something. All my Floyds float. So you sound like JUST the fellow to ask...because I have yet to figure it out....the same Floyd, its springs, its posts can be moved from one guitar to another and one guitar will flutter and the other not....seriously what the hell gives?

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks! Thats a great question about your non-fluttering Floyd. I’ve had this happen in the past, but that came down to using different posts. I’ve got a guitar currently that doesn’t flutter, but it’s using three springs in the back instead of 2 (I don’t know if any of that makes a difference, but I imagine spring rates will not necessarily be uniform due to manufacturing processes. I seem to find my two spring setups flutter a little better 🤷‍♂️). Are you having any tuning instability issues? If all things are identical, that’s a real head scratcher. I would start to wonder about maybe different brands of strings, or how old/stretched the strings that are on there are. Are the locknuts the same too? I have some that have way more relaxed machining tolerances that don’t seem to like to flutter as much as the premium ones. All my nice OFR nuts seem to work just fine. 🤷‍♂️ Are all the guitars similar in construction (neck through or bolt on?). Sorry I can’t be of much help I’d probably start comparing similarities and differences to help narrow things down. Good luck - please let me know if you figure it out! 🎸🙏

[@Wyldwulf]

@@dexdeimos425 I did it on two guitars of the same model and make with only a color difference (mockingbird) and one just didn't do as well. Honestly had me wondering if some guitars actually have a bit of spring in the neck itself that bounces energy more...beyond your suggestion of strings, it's about all I have. I also have a Charvel Mexi ProMod with a brand new OG german floyd and posts on it that doesn't flutter very well....my Jackson SL1 USA holy grail...it goes for days. It is very odd...the only x factors I have left are strings, neck springyness, and maybe something to do with block length vs action height....basically where the pull of the saddles are vs the length/mass of the block vs post height. In all cases arm as tight as can be...that one is a known necessity.

[@dexdeimos425]

That’s an excellent point about the neck. Thats kind of where I was heading with my comment about bolt vs. set neck. I think you’re on to something with the block depth/spring angle too. Mechanical advantage must play a part in some of this. I feel like there is some math that could help with that, but that is well beyond me! 🤣. Aside from everything we’ve mentioned, maybe the actual spacing of the studs. This might sound crazy, but I have some guitars that are slightly narrower with their stud spacing, so the knife edges do not contact directly centre of the post. These ones don’t really flutter. They stay in tune but don’t have that “bouncy feel”. 🤷‍♂️

[@Wyldwulf]

@@dexdeimos425 I think you may have nailed it with the post spacing. I don't own a caliper/micrometer to accurately measure this...but what I do have is thin metal picks, used as a feeler between the flare of the post top and the e saddles....and the Pro Mod that "kinda flutters" and the SL1 are different...the ProMod has about 1/2 the clearance on one side. I have never removed those bushings, but have seen fellas do it by putting a screw or other object in the bushing that forces the bushing up when the post is screwed in. The amount of distance that one/each post needs to move is all of a mm...so I have no clue how to shift them....dowling and redrilling doesn't seem right for such a minimal move...it could be nothing more than gentle tilt...

[@qua7771]

People love FR Specials until they don't.

[@JonsterTheBondster]

The quality of the 1000 has also dropped considerably. softer Flow Steel (yes it's still steel, they wont actually lie when saying 1000 is Korean made OFR from "same" materials). Add poor hardening process and you get poor Trem in 2grand guitars. 1000 used to be good. There's a reason why you can find 1000 in Harley Bentons costing around 350€, yes, the whole guitar + FR1000. Also, AP who owns Floyd Rose trademark now, changed licensing and 1000 and Special both, are made in China, Indonesia etc, not only in Korea. They obviously aren't in hurry adding specific details to official web page. But yeah, officially 1000 is OFR made in Korea. It more or less was that 10 years ago. Btw some of the FRS have W-logo, some has S-logo and some won't have anything depending on what guitar, country, reseller etc.. Even Schaller made Floyds have more quality problems today than they had before. (OFR is still great tho don't get me wrong) 😃 Schaller trems have declined in quality too. There's a lot of talk about what's going on today. They might push lower grade faster today, who knows testing some new machining. QC should be good still whatever they're trying sonwe won't get all the possible variants. I've noticed that cheap guitars with FRS or 1000 have lower quality FRS /1000 than the ones costing 1k€ or more. Anyway, its just common sense that you can't find German OFR level trem from 3-400€ guitars or near FRT1000 Quality FRS with only some minor Zinc saddle/block differences if the guitar costs 199€ (harley bentons are great example, they have 199€ guitars with FRS and Jackson X-Series have FRS, just slightly better quality, different factory with different QC and price). Pretty simple really.

[@Andrew-pk9vz]

Yup the new specials are a complete waste. Can you upgrade the block on the Wilk?

[@dexdeimos425]

You can! I stuck a big musiclily block on the one I have in that Profile guitar. It’ll work but might need some slight modification. 🎸

[@ajpeagle]

it's from a new factory . There are two Korean factories that also make slightly different FRT1000s.I agree the Special is junk.

[@scottdunn2178]

Bent whale tails seem to be the biggest problem with the newer base plates. No more Korean junk for me. German made Schaller LockMeister from now on...

[@dexdeimos425]

Schaller stuff is always A+! I’m pretty sold on the Gotoh 1996T for budget builds though. 🎸🙌

[@mattmcguire7669]

The video says Qulality LOL

[@dexdeimos425]

It does! One man show my friend, things inevitably get missed. 🤷‍♂️🤣

[@mattmcguire7669]

@@dexdeimos425 LOL, c'est la vie. Great informative video nonetheless! 👍😎

[@dexdeimos425]

Thanks a bunch! 🙏🎸