Fluorescent Glow Starters

Fluorescent glow starters demonstrated working.
This demonstration uses 240 volts AC and a lamp in series with the starter to limit the current. In normal operation, the fluorescent tube filaments and ballast/choke limit the current.
Wiring and operation of fluorescent lights: • Fluorescent Tube Lighting
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[@philipstrangward9127]

Hi John. I am a trainee electrician, I am 40 and am entering the trade at a late age. I just want to tell you that your videos are excellent, you have helped me understand various topics tremendously. I have learned more watching your videos than any other source of information. I am doing a course and am currently working with an electrician to get some practical experience. I was wondering if you could do more videos related to wiring and regulations. If you did, I believe you would be the go to place for trainee electricians to learn. You explain concepts and theories better than any other source I have come across.

[@TheSoxmania]

I remember putting a fluro starter across the mains once... that was a fun experience!! *BANG*

[@SeanBZA]

The gas fill also serves a very important function. It has to break down with mains voltage applied when the tube is off, and the full mains voltage is thus across the starter, but must not break down when the tube is running, and has around 90-100V across the ends. As the tube ages the voltage drop across it increases for various reasons ( cathodes becoming less efficient, mercury vapour inside the tube being absorbed by chemical reactions with the phosphor or simply being all condensed in the cool spots of the walls) and thus the voltage across the tube rises till it eventually is enough for the starter to operate again, thus the blinking of the lamp at end of life, at least until either the starter contacts weld together from the constant operation, or the filament breaks from the heavy erosion of the high current pulses.

[@simonparkinson1053]

SeanBZA comment moved to main

[@audiodood]

they fill them with promethium

[@shvideo1]

Excellent education video on starters. Thank you very much for the thoroughness.

[@tmdcbass]

I must've changed tens of those in my life but I never knew what was in them. Thanks for showing :)

[@Reuben1024]

Interesting, the starter at the end in darkness was quite beautiful to see, such an everyday item that I have taken for granted, simply fitting new ones in when required rather then looking at them.

[@muhammedabbas242]

Your awesome videos always return me to my golden childhood days ...

[@johnferguson4989]

Don't know about nowadays but 40 years ago in Japan fluorescent glow starters were made with the capsule in the open and the purple glow was always visible on startup.

[@TheFreak111]

I don't understand what would be the reason for not doing that anymore though. I think it would be nice.

[@CassetteMaster]

Fascinating and brilliant glow of those starters! This makes me think of a childhood memory of a fish tank we had, where you could see some purple glow coming from the starter before the fluorescent light came on.

[@marinvidovic763]

Lol .... you reminded me of being charmed by sparks at our old 4.5V batery door bell inductor. ... some 55 years ago. You maybe rember those that had wooden box and brass contacts... I used to sit on the floor and play with something ... and if a visitor would press black bakelite knob at the main door - downstaris ... suddenly a magic would happen and in a semidarknes of our small corridor upstairs , abowe the door , ... sparks would start to light , a bell would ring and interesting smell of electricity would apear in the air. ... WHAT A Magic for a child !!! ... ... it lead me to a lifelong love of coper windings and infuctors. Later on a CRISTAL Radio ... Copar antenas across the backyard... nights inder the blaket secretly listening to first Rock And Roll bands at midnight program. Arent they magical in their aperance those shiny coper infuctor coils !?

[@johnferguson4989]

Japanese fluorescent glow starter capsules are fixed to a C9 type screw base without an enclosure and therefore the glow is visible upon power up of the lumenaire.

[@tonesoft1956]

I remember working in the Steel works in the 70s or 80s my boss was after some disco lights so wired some starters in line with colored bulbs worked a treat and earned me £20 :D just by changing value of the capacitor changer flashing rate

[@warrengray610]

Hi John, merry Christmas and a happy new year!

[@BoomBoxDeluxe]

_"....and if we wired this across the mains, the switch would close and the fuse would blow."_ Aaaah, that brings back memories, that does. :D I wired one across the mains to see it glow up, and I was quickly turning the power on-and-off to see it glow, but the last time, I must have left the juice on a bit too long..... *_BAAAANG!!_* Yes, the fuse DID blow in the plug, and not only that, there were _"Bits-Of-It-Everywhere"_ and the connecting leads to the starter that were in the connector strip were no more. :D Totally obliterated. Of course, I think this might have been attributed to the fact that our circuits around our previous house were fused to BS 3036 (rewireables) and the 30A fuse allowed through a fair bit of grunt..... enough to blast a starter to bits and blow the 13A fuse in the plug. :D I am not sure what the damage would have been if we had circuit breakers, gjven that they are much more sensitive when breaking short circuits! ......Maybe one day, I will get my camera set up out in the garden and blast a few tube starters across the mains. You know, just for the laughs and _"In-The-Name-Of-Science"_ of course. :D Thanxx for showing, -BoomBoxDeluxe / Wayne's Electrical. _16th October 2016, 07.32_

[@ratbag359]

or my trick before i learnt that sodium/floro tubes need current limiting :)

[@ScottieNiven]

Which is also my first experience with fluro starters aswell! Luckily we had 20A circuit breakers on the ring main and it quickly tripped, but I was finding bits of glass around my room for a little while after that.

[@djfromage]

I did a similar thing in my first job at an emergency lighting manufacturer. I was in the test department and connected one of those to my variac. Got the voltage up so far and bang! Took the fuse right out of course.

[@psirvent8]

Hello, I just removed the plastic cover from a brand new Osram St 111 starter (4-65W) and placed it in the holder of a fluorescent light, then I flicked the switch on and off multiple times make the glow from the starter bulb last as long as possible without the fluorescent tube lighting and only looking at that mysterious blue glow for a few seconds made my eyes feel eaxctly the same as if I had looked at a UV lamp ! (I could litterally write a book about my experiments with UVA and UVC lamps but not here). Don't fluorescent starters emit at least _some_ amount of UV aswell as orange or blue light ?

[@azizjamalitalhar5399]

The glow-switch starter was invented by 1938 It is a small discharge tube containing a bimetallic switch, As current continues to flow through gas (usually argon,neon ) in the starter, a small bulb containing To ionize , Glow in the starter heats and it increases the temperature inside the starter starts to bend one of the metal contacts inside, in the same way that a bi-metal thermostat works. The starter (which is simply a timed switch) allows current to flow through the filaments at the ends of the tube.

[@tommyhanlon8012]

another good one, thank you JW

[@hyperion8008]

I keep hoping you'll swing round and play us out with a little number on the organ. It's interesting to see how these work. I have an electronic starter in the tube in the utility room which makes a hell of a pulsating noise till the tube fires.

[@mrjohhhnnnyyy5797]

Blue glow looks real neat :)

[@ShokaLion]

What might be interesting to mention would be the very old style manual start fluorescent systems. There are still several desk draughtsman type lamps where I work that are manual start fluorescent. It wouldn't be a great deal of work to rig up a circuit to demonstrate manually starting a fluorescent tube either I wouldn't think. All you'd need is a ballast, a tube, and a few switches.

[@jing-chingchen2333]

It is interesting to know the technology around our daily life! thanks

[@warrengray610]

fascinating, please also cover electronic methods for igniting and maintaining light, I find all discharge lighting to be fascinating, please do some more on the other types. son-t son-e etc...

[@waelsadek81]

But why when the starter contacts are closed they cool down , shouldn't they pass more current and thus generate more heat ?

[@pepapu7112]

Thanks, just took an old one apart and the walls were all blackened and I wondered how they work. So I shouldn't throw these in the trash? and I need to recycle them like the tubes?

[@mc_cpu]

suggestion: in the seventies I remember at Christmas we had tree lights and we had an optional flasher unit we could plug in in series with the lights. might be interesting to obtain one and explain how it works. I Remember it had to warm up so it may be a similar mechanism to these starters.

[@jwflame]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHe5Z3qZl9aHpNk

[@azyfloof]

Could make an interesting lamp flasher thinger for Halloween :D!

[@dancoulson6579]

Azayles was just thinking the same thing!

[@robshorts]

I've had a lot of trouble with the very cheap starters in the lights I maintain at work and no longer use them and for that matter remove them when I find them. The contacts fuse together and overheat, causing the shattering of the glass tube, melting the plastic casing and sometimes destroying the starter holder!

[@simonparkinson1053]

John, a common mistake is for people to install "4-80W" starters in 6ft 1800mm 70W (or the old 75/85W T12) setups, the increased lamp running voltage borderline exceeds the threshold of the "4-80W" starter giving an annoying brief flicker once every few minutes. You need the specific 6 foot or the more common FS125 8-foot variety of srarter for 6-footers to be reliable at all temperatures. I've been to countless faults as above, even caretakers and maintenance electricians argue the toss that if it says "4-80W" it must be right for a 70W tube. But no. The gas fill in the starter differs to give a different conduction threshold voltage. You will notice the "FS-U 4-80W" have a blue glow, whereas the 6ft and 8ft FS125 types have a red or orange glow.

[@dancoulson6579]

Simon Parkinson I never knew that. But from what you say about the color of the discharge it would appear to be correct. Argon gives a blue glow and Neon gives a red glow. Neon has a higher striking voltage than argon, so logically a neon starter would be used in longer tubes with a higher voltage drop accross them.

[@uK8cvPAq]

What about operating a 5ft 65w tube on a starter deigned for 70-125w tubes? It appears to work and starts up fast enough but am I shortening the life of the tube by doing so?

[@simonparkinson1053]

uK8cvPAq No harm, just takes a fraction longer to close the contacts, and small chance the lamp may not strike fully, running in a higher voltage lower current mode then extinguish and re-strike a few seconds later.

[@uK8cvPAq]

Simon Parkinson Cheers. I know a thing or two about LED lighting but have never delved into the art of florescent tubes until now.

[@andygozzo72]

i got hold of quite a lot of the fs125 starters very cheap (free!) and have used them on smaller tubes no problem, never tried it the other way as dont have any really long light fittings..

[@Veso266]

What kind of fixture base is that Its not edison, I saw it a couple of times, never in real life, where was it used?

[@stevenolsen6360]

2020. just discover, a rarely used back shed fluro, not working, but by accident noticed the radio in the house, was VERY badly effected (am radio station), wall fitting in shed, is a double - with only one fluro- so good to find out the missing fluro is not causing a problem, further to this video and the other video- could you do a video showing the effect of the starter capacitor wearing out- high resistance growing less toward shorting- as this i expect would really be the culprit, causing the fluro to flash when running- flashing getting worse til dead, , somewhere in between that radio interference- from Steven- Melbourne

[@LSF25]

Hey, what camera did you use? Your video has a really great and high definiton quality, especially the close up of the glow starter tube. It's informative as well, keep up the good work!

[@jwflame]

Camera is a Panasonic HC-X900.

[@eliotlees6124]

The capacitor also serves an additional purpose. Just before the contacts of the switch meet it discharges across them, which gives a slight welding effect so they don't open too quickly. That's important for proper heating of the electrodes in the tube. Starters seem to be a component of which the importance is severely overlooked these days. The hardness of the switch contacts should be careful chosen to match the lamp current, so they stay closed long enough for the electrodes in the tube to be heated. Soft contacts weld together more easily, giving a longer heating period, but may weld together permanently if the current is too high. If they're too hard or the current is too low, they do not weld together and do not give sufficient heating. The voltage at which the glow discharge takes place is also important, too high and contacts barely meet, which again will not allow sufficient heating of the electrodes. Too low and the starter contacts will reclose even if the tube is lit, causing nuisance flashing. Thorough heating is important to reduce wear on the tube each time it is started. These cheap universal starters appear to work perfectly adequately in that they start the tube. How they go about it is often far from ideal.

[@VMX-pc2ye]

so when the lamp turn on and the starter will disconnect itself am i correct

[@Pool_king_]

Hi John. Could you please tell me if a 110v bulb for festoon lighting would work safely on a 230v supply in a domestic premises. Cheers

[@jwflame]

It will work but only for a few minutes. it will get very hot which may damage the lampholder and cable. Demonstrated in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmHRkKJ4nNJ1aKM

[@ElkundEklund]

What is the gas inside these? Should be argon / neon or another noble gas - but not only! Some of these explode in a cascade of sparks if you break them (cold, not connected) so they must contain something that reacts with oxygen or nitrogen. Possibly phosphorus. (This only goes for some brands (or even just one) and I forgot which ones, although I could possibly find out by popping... I discovered this 20 years ago or more so I'm not sure if it also goes for newer models)

[@Graham_Langley]

Electronic starters next John?

[@unlokia]

I'm doing the rounds doing a bulk subscribe on many electronics channels, and yours comes highly recommended, so, subbed! Thank you so much & God bless you, have a lovely Christmas, John :) Matthew, England.

[@iiiiiiicurtisiiiiiii]

would it be possible to replace the starter with a push button arrangement?

[@dancoulson6579]

iiiiiiicurtisiiiiiii yes. it's entirely possible. Some old fluorescent table lamps used to have two buttons. it was always connected accross the mains. to turn it on you would hold down the button (in place of the starter) for a couple of seconds to allow the filaments to preheat and then release. To turn it off you would press a button to break button for a brief instant. I think they're callled manual preheat fluorescents.

[@vamsikrishna5391]

when starter gets opened after some time due to inductive kick the large tube light gas gets ionized but y not small air gap between starters gap not ionized??

[@jwflame]

The tube filament ends are hot and coated with chemicals to assist with electron emission, the starter contacts are not.

[@edwardhennessy4014]

hi jw im looking for a sparks to join my tight little firm next week for some house bashing. just me and Ian on the tools at moment. kev and Danny have jacked and jonnos starting his own thing up and u know what pats like. there's a ton in your hand everyday. you would really be helping me out. oh and there's always drinks in the horns on Friday. let me know please mate.

[@MFDOOMgr]

nice video. why is the capacitor in parallel? whats its use?

[@jwflame]

Interference suppression

[@leegreveson]

Everything that you needed to know about starters but were afraid to ask.... I'm now enlightened........ 22p? Where do you shop?

[@jwflame]

www.toolstation.com/shop/p89674

[@uK8cvPAq]

Wow, that's like wholesale prices for the man on the street!

[@Madness832]

What would've happened if you had left the capacitor connected across it?

[@jwflame]

The same, the capacitor is only there to reduce radio interference when the contacts open. It was removed in the video so that the glass tube could be seen without the capacitor in the way.

[@TheKakkarvfx]

HELLO SIR hOW TO GLOW STARTER LIGHT FOR 24*7 HOURS

[@green2489]

Hi JW, any videos on Emergency Lighting circuits? (keep up the good work)

[@jwflame]

Some info here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGmsioCpesiliKs

[@jasejj]

I have found these cheap starters to be somewhat unreliable (as in they fail after a few months) in our kitchen setup. I was given a couple of electronic starters by the electrician at work and these have run for decades with no problems.

[@Energy1311]

👍👍👍

[@FounderOfAiTheNewOrder]

watched without any sound and said to myself what the hell I'm I doing watching stuff like this in the first place

[@toanngo1849]

can their light danger to our body ?

[@jwflame]

No, although there may be some UV light it's very low intensity. The video was recorded in low light levels so that the glow can be seen clearly. In normal lighting, the glow is very dim or even impossible to see.

[@tinaluke5124]

Thank God for LEDs (or the Chinese), those fluorescents are a nightmare. That buzzing drove me mad in the kitchen.

[@thevelar7139]

Is their a gas inside this starter

[@jwflame]

Yes, usually argon or neon, or a mixture of those.

[@Jantiaala]

Sahi h

[@riiwind]

Good video! a bit waffilie but still ok

[@TheKakkarvfx]

10

[@2LZA3EEM]

8:22 ....

[@WeNeedSomeMusic]

LOL