Fly Fishing GUIDES - do they SUCK?

[@JP-dz7zu]

Best guide I had worked his butt off to get me on fish and listened to what my goal for the trip was. I booked a guide to put me on Golden Trout in the Sierras. The day before the trip the owner of the outfitter tells me they are taking me to the Kings river to catch rainbow trout instead because “that’s hot right now”. I explained to the guide that I traveled 2500 miles to catch a golden, don’t care about size or numbers of rainbows. Against his boss’s wish, he took us to the high Sierras where he hiked like 5 miles through thick forest to get us on some amazing little goldens. He was a great guide because he listened to what the client wanted and busted his ass.

[@lyleburlingame2276]

Guarantee I know exactly what outfitter called you and told you that !!!! LOL. Let me guess did he seem a bit arrogant ? Look me up next time you come to Yosemite or the sierras - I’ll put you on the monster browns, rainbows or whatever you feel like exploring

[@JP-dz7zu]

@@lyleburlingame2276 Not many outfitters in that area, I’m sure you’d know the name. Crazy thing is I booked 6 months out and specifically discussed with him that I wanted to target Goldens. Then after I already had paid, he tells me the night before he can’t take me where we agreed on or target the species of fish I wanted. Fortunately the guide he sent was excellent and laughed at the owner and blew him off.

[@owenmurray1745]

@@JP-dz7zu name of that guide? I have a hunch it’s a buddy of mine that’s a great guy

[@JP-dz7zu]

@@owenmurray1745 first name was Shawn

[@leeeng478]

My family has lived in the Sierras since the 1860's. We just hike to where the fish are and catch them. It is not difficult. Do you know how to read a map. I go to new places every year sight unseen and slay the trout. I have a goal of working around the whole valley hitting creeks and streams trout fishing. Stony creek, American river, Butte creek Feather river, Stanislaus river etc etc etc! Some people need there hands held whats worse is the people that like holding your hand and the weaker people who want there hand held are the reason rivers become catch and realease fly fish only and the worse Guide only. WEAKNESS BREEDS MORE WEAKNESS!!

[@mattlien5844]

Isn't fly fishing without guides tenkara?

[@suchabadkitty1293]

😆I see what ya did there.

[@jaredtandle2596]

Punny

[@thomastero4662]

A good guide gets as excited about you catching a fish as you do.

[@yamati150]

I've only had the opportunity to experience one fly fishing guide and it was an unbelievably educational day! I learned a ton!! And he was a great guy, to boot!! Granted, the trip was paid for by my financial advisor because I'm entirely too cheap to do something like that on my own, but I'm so glad I was able to fish that day. I'd barely had any experience with a fly rod, having grown up in the driftless area and used an ultralight spinning rod for the first forty (actually more) years of my trout fishing. Having moved to Wyoming, I figured it was about time for me to learn a new way, and you CAN TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS!!😂😂

[@googleuser9130]

Almost all the guides I’ve had have been great. James with About Trout, the guys at Minturn Anglers here in Colorado. All excellent. The first guide I ever went out with in Southern Colorado told me about his prior felonies, he didn’t provide or even mention lunch, and yelled at my brother and I the whole day to “mend up.” Thinking that meant upstream, we would mend upstream. He’d then yell again, “No, mend up! UP!” We mended every which way only to have him yell more to “mend up.” 7 years later, we still have no idea what the hell he was talking about.

[@AboutTrout]

Thank you that means the world.

[@halfmoonflyfishing]

Thank you for mentioning the issues that fisheries face. A lot of folks who hire guides are completely unaware of problems until the guide mentions it. I was shooting a video a while back in Georgia for a guiding service and found out about illegal sewage dumping and industrial runoff from coal power plants. The more you know

[@JP-dz7zu]

I had the misfortune of hiring the worst guide in America. Family vacation to Utah, wanted to break away to fly fish for a day so I hired a guide who was kind of “Instagram famous”. She took me to a tailwater where the flow had been shut off leaving the stream below a series of small puddles consisting of dead and rotting fish with a few live ones gasping for oxygen. She insisted that I cast at these dying fish so we could get a picture for her Instagram page with a Splake or Tiger trout. When I told her it was bad sportsmanship and the smell of the rotten fish was disgusting she stormed off to the truck and didn’t speak to me the rest of the day.

[@cjamesmckay]

Sounds like Bridget Fabel

[@Realism86]

I’m very skeptical of anything or anybody that uses instagram as their main vessel. “Instagram famous” The platform symbolizes all that’s fake.

[@lyleburlingame2276]

What guide? Lol

[@river_church425]

I think I know of this guide lol

[@JP-dz7zu]

I won’t confirm or deny the guides name, but she made me meet her at her house. I get there on time and had to knock for 10 minutes to wake her up. Then we had to feed the chickens. Fished 3 hours while floating in a pond sized lake, caught 1 fish. Then we go the tailwater to fish for dead fish in puddles. Quit that after 10 minutes when I refused to participate and she offered no refund or other spot to go. I paid for a full day, got 3 hours of fishing in and the stench of rotten trout in my nose.

[@Stick2208]

What I have learned from past experiences is that people just need a good fishing buddy. Someone that knows when to talk and when to shut up. Someone that can teach you a thing or two about the fishery and if not, something about the area or the water you're fishing. A person that can tell a joke and at the same time, can take on a wild/disturbing story shared by a client. It's not that hard, just care about the clients' day and the fish' day too! Thanks for the great video, loved all of it! @Huge Fly Fisherman

[@GerdyOutdoors]

Great video! My brother and me hired a guide for a day while we were in Montana, he was from Wolf Creek Outfitters. He made our experience a lot of fun and taught us a lot. What a great experience!

[@jdouglasj2000]

I spent my first ten years in fly fishing nymphing, which I don't even really enjoy that much, because of guides. I didn't know any better; this was before KZbin. When I would say something like "hey, I thought fly fishing used flies that float on top of the water" I was told (truthfully) that ninety percent of the food trout eat is subsurface. This is 90% of fly fishing." Now I could have said "hey, could you teach me to fish dry flies?" but I didn't even know enough to ask that question. They had me believing that no fly fisherman who knows anything would be doing anything but nymphing. They'd say "cast there....set!" and I'd catch fish. It was okay, but I wasn't that into it. Fly fisherman are really reluctant to be critical of guides, but it'd be a much better business if that weren't so. For starters, fly flshing is the field I know of where experience is irrelevant to pay rate. Every wade guide gets $500 a day (some guys can charge more, but almost no one charges less)., but I've had guides who took twice as long to tie knots than the time it takes me. I am not a great fly fisherman by any stretch of the imagination, but I've had many guides who knew no more than I did about the sport. That wouldn't be so bad if they were half the price, but unlike every other service field in the capitalist system, a guide who knows next to nothing and is bereft of skills gets paid the same rate as the best there is. Also, if fisherman weren't so inclined to find nice things about every guide they ever had, we'd have much better guides. How else are inexperienced guides going to learn anything? I know three people who have used Davy Wooton down on the White River. We all had a terrible time with the guy, even though he's a well-known name (and inventor of the Davy knot). If you're paying around $100/hour (with tip) to go fishing and you didn't have a great time, then hell's bells people, get the word out!

[@mikekrol7485]

Your content is always worth watching. Love the humorous quick cuts that you use in the videos. Stay hugely prolific. Love seeing your new video to start the week. I'll reach out for more merch, maybe a hoodie like you're sporting. Have a great Christmas. Thanks you for doing you. Peace.

[@erikseymour6038]

You touched on one thing I feel is extremely important. To start this off, I am not a guide nor would I ever want to be. Being from Michigan I have the opportunity to fish allot of different water, but like most folks we all have those few stretches we love to fish often. Ive become friends with many guides on these stretches simply because of the amount of time I spend fishing them. I try to help them out any way I can because that their living and I am doing it for the fun. 99% of these guides are great! We always shoot the sh!t with each other at the launch and take out as well as helping each other while on the water. My biggest problem I have with guides are the ones that are rude to everyone on and off the water. They feel they are better than everyone else and wont even acknowledge a simple wave when passing by in the boat. Ive seen these "Guides" disrespect other guides while in the local fly shops while in front of their clients. Ive even had their clients come up to me and ask if this is normal for guides to act this way with other guides. Very foolish if you ask me

[@jdouglasj2000]

Sounds like you've met Tommy Lynch.

[@Bamyasi]

On point as usual HFF. I once spent a chunk of money on a fairly well known bonefish guide only to spend the entire day listening to him talking shit about all the other local guides and why they sucked. Enthralling - got me really pumped for a day's fishing in a dream location. Lunch was a half-arsed ham sandwich. Just a shit experience and waste of money. I then realised that researching and vetting guides properly before you drop a wad of cash is actually quite important.

[@rickhemstreet1627]

@bamyasi Had a similar experience and could very well be the same guide. Sadly he has duped tens of thousands of his IG followers into thinking he is a full time guide, when in reality he has a 40hr a week desk job. He plays a fly fishing guide on IG well but never has anything good to say about anyone. Certainly a sour experience for me.

[@justhobe8118]

Man, you really hit the mark with this one. I always avoid launching my boat when the guides do in the morning. Most of them fill the space with negative vibes. Their clients are the ones wearing smiles. If you talk to a guide at the end of the summer, they are usually toast and the fun factor is no longer a part of the job. I’ve used guides three times in my life. Back in the eighties… always on new water for me. Had a young guide on the upper end of the Yellowstone - out of Park’s. Super helpful. A long bearded hillbilly on the Beaverhead out of Frontier. He drank all of our beer and even fished with us. Fished all day and into night. Threw crane fly patterns and had a great time. But the best of all was on the Big Horn before most had even heard of it. Best guide ever - Bob Crum. Not sure if he is still around the water. Helluva nice fella who put me on the largest trout of my life. Still is today…. and I’m in my mid 50’s and have lived and fished in Montana for a good long time.

[@cephasmcpher67peteroutdoorspip]

So, what I'm taking from this is a "Guide" is for people who don't know how to fly fish or people who do know how but want someone to paddle their lazy rear ends down river and who can make a mean bologna sandwich. If I were to ever hire a guide I would want you Ben just because you seem from your videos like you be a blast to hang out with for the day and I'm not trying to just blow smoke up yer ass. Merry Christmas to you and your family. STAY HUGE!!

[@coreytohme9861]

A guide is also for traveling anglers who either have little to no knowledge about a new to them fishery, fish or locations, gear that doesn't match the fishery (salt guy going to fresh and vice versa), and guys/gals that have gotten too old to maintain and operate a boat. But yes, most guides' clients don't usually have a lot of experience.

[@fishhandsfranky]

The hand drawn graphic during the “Frank clown-guide” section was particularly well done. Hahahaha.

[@ronschlorff7089]

Ben may not know it, but those hand drawn "graphics" (LOL) of his could be a "hot selling" piece of mech for him!! ;D

[@chrisheimerl5862]

This has been enlightening. I thought my recent guide was good, but now I’m rethinking that, fairly. Very good perspective Ben. 👍🏻

[@puristonthefly3308]

My favorite fly fishing guides are ones without guide licenses and poach clients, like Idaafly.

[@NuecesAngling]

Patrick Duke has entered the chat

[@jaynesjunction]

Bad guide - having a buddy wading 2 hours to reserve a honey hole so he can bring his clients over later… so want to toss a rock into the area. Good guide - while in Alaska with rivers blown, most guides were tossing roe bags 4’ off the shore and getting their limit in 2 hours. Our guide was open minded and took our suggestion to bush whack a few miles into some stellar stillwater. Not interested in bobber fishing for lethargic Salomon… We were fly fishing and that was the highlight.

[@paulcolson3220]

Awesome installment, Ben, and spot on! I’ve learned to avoid the guides who don’t engage when I tell them I’m after quality, not quantity. Chucking all day to get them numbers is like having to scan my own groceries. Working for people you are paying is the worst. And I’d have never known you were ever socially awkward 😮

[@billspicer1967]

I'm with you on the southern salt water guides. I have guided many times over the years, but finally decided it's not for me. That said I have had some incredible guides. These are the guides that have made a suggestion and you catch a fish. They are the biggest cheer leader in your success.

[@justal4844]

I love your videos, Ben, but this one was even better than the rest. The "tenkara sucks" had me laughing and I realized some small details that I had not previously thought of despite spending enough days fishing with guides (and yes, I've learned the hard way with my wallet mostly how to tell the difference...). I've had lousy guides and a few great ones too. ☮

[@bChipps]

A good guide can be a couple things for me either someone who makes me hyped for every single fish that may or may not bite or it’s the entertainment factor where I learn something regardless of whether I get hands on with a fish.

[@mattstout856]

One thing not talked about with respect to being a guide is licensing, safety and insurance. The guide , just like a captain, is responsible for the safety and well being of his/her clients. They need to know how to get someone the help they need if they get into a tough situation and they need to have the means to protect themselves and their client in the event something goes very wrong. Unfortunately many KZbin guides focus on just the likes….

[@scottbideau]

Excellent video that every guide should watch! I'll never forget my first guided experience. I walk up to the river and the guy just starts commanding me to cast into this specific pool. I had to tell him, very bluntly, that I'm not here just to catch fish but to work on specific techniques that I have fallen behind with. My experience turned out decent, but I can only imagine how poor of an experience he provides to people who are less comfortable in being forward enough to state their objectives. Truly teaching is WAY more difficult (and rewarding) than simply showing people some honey holes, which is why I now strongly qualify future guides before hiring them.

[@ante1439]

Very good rant! I'm thinking of becoming a fly fishing guide. Just a little side hustle. Been working in alpine tourism last 4 years as a chef. I have had a blast in between the shifts and I always been directed to for fishing questions. I'm just a little insecure on the fly fishing part so far as I'm new in fly fishing but been spinning, angling and ice fishing my whole life with a lot nature interest in the back. I'm thinking of taking a guide course to meet and learn from more accomplished fly fishers and get a certificate since my country is obsessed with certificates. Cooking will still be my main trade while I can take some groups on the side. Atleast I can make a kickass camp fire dinner and tell random fish facts.

[@martincleary9093]

This is great. I always get confused when I need to judge the quality of a guide. Ben is right, some of those guys are just in it for a buck. I had one try to sell me a shirt and a hat with his name on it! I had another one really focus on trying to make my experience enjoyable. He brought me to some great spots, taught me next step techniques, and helped me catch fish. He did all of this without judging me, my skills, or my life choices.

[@brett9382]

Had a guide on the bighole and the beaverhead river for two days. Hes was fantastic the first day, but took advantage when he found out we were pretty chill and not uptight. He took advantage of this on the second day showing up hungover, stopped on the way to the ramp to run some errands and we ended up only fishing for 4 hours when we planned for 7.

[@charlesloeffler333]

My stated goals to each guide and I hope instructor so far: - 85% goal: get me up along a nice creek or river up in the mountains - 90% goal: also get my line in the water - 95% goal: plus catch a few fish, no trophies needed - last 5%: please do not tell me I’m doing everything perfectly Let me know what’s wrong and how to improve So far, every guided trip has been great

[@AKfishandhunt]

I guide I defiantly am trying to get better all the time and this is so true. So many guides only care about catching fish and don't care about the experience. I pride myself on trying to have my fisherman catch fish but also have a good time as well.

[@henneclimbs1989]

A big part of good guiding is also controlling damage to locals experience by not flooding 500 yards of stream with 25 "guests" bussed in with 8 guides each holding 3 pre rigged rods. It's disgraceful the traffic that some of these "services" perpetrate on local fisheries.

[@rightmarker1]

Hi Ben - you recently referred to me a couple of guide names at Yellow Lab and Eagle Rock for which my thanks. It’s a real shame you’re now retired from guiding - you clearly have the right approach and attitude unlike a guide I once hired a few years ago for three days on Cowichan BC who exhibited most of the failings you describe here. He did bring his own lunch though.

[@templeofthetree]

For me, when traveling, a guide provides local knowledge that I, as an out-of-towner lack.

[@ronschlorff7089]

good local fly shops do that, and I give them a bit of equipment business (buy flies that supposedly work) for the information. Then I go buy my own beer and bucket of chicken, and fish alone, right Ben?!! LOL LOL LOL :D

[@ThePorpoisepower]

They are kinda vital for keeping your line traversing the length of your rod too

[@bluffcountryflies8690]

Excellent illustrations. I especially like the hand-drawn float diagrams. THUMBS UP!!

[@ronschlorff7089]

yup, if this fly-fishing gig does not work out for Ben, he may have a new career as an artist, or at least a book illustrator!! ;D LOL

[@mguerramd]

What do y’all think about this: I was fly fishing tarpon in Florida. About 6 or 8 guides fish this particular area. We got up at 4AM, motored out to the spot we wanted and dropped the hook to wait for light. Shortly afterwards another guide came up and asked us to go elsewhere so his client could fish there. My guide was about to agree to this. I stood up in the boat and told the other guide no, we got up at 4 for a reason, to claim a spot. It got very heated. My guide was apologizing to the other guide about me entering in to this conversation. He felt this was a guide only thing. Then we motored off to another spot. I was boiling furious. Just as we were about to drop the anchor I told the guide we’re done, go back to the ramp, trip is over. It was day one of a five day trip. I felt that his loyalty to his fellow guide trumped his loyalty to me, the paying client. I fished with him for the last eight years. I know these guys have to get along all season, there’s only so many guides and so many spots to set up at this location. But I get exactly 5 days to fish for tarpon a year if I’m lucky. And I pay for it. My guide was pissed as hell at me and refused to take the days fee that I offered him. The next week I sent him a check in the mail for the day and he cashed it. So, should I have sat there passively and let the guides work it out, or was I right to assert our right to be there since we got up at 4 to claim that spot? There’s no reason to get up that early if not to get your spot . You can’t sight fish til the sun is high. These guys could all have a conference call every night and divvy up the spots beforehand, their clients wouldn’t know anything about it, and then we could all sleep in and go out there at 10:30! Which is about the earliest you can see fish. And oh yeah, the first year he told me that I was supposed to provide our lunch, which I dutifully did for the next 8 years.

[@liam14daly73]

I love fishing double nymph rigs and I’m proud

[@jeremyowen1]

I've always wanted to guide the smallmouth river I've fished since I was a kid. Even right in the middle of the big city some sections are absolutely beautiful. I've seen deer, herons, loons and eagles. The history of this area predates Canada itself in some instances. Recently finished school for Fish and Wildlife management though and don't really have the free time. Nothing stopping me when I'm older though I guess. Except you know, being old.

[@EricMorrison]

It's the powerbait in the background of these videos for me.

[@stevevaughn9093]

I have only hired a handful of guides, mostly after moving "out West" and realizing these rivers are big and best fished with a boat. While most, I guess, have been good guides I've always felt kind of unfulfilled at the end. Probably because I really didn't know what I was expecting even though I've been fly fishing most of my 71 years. One example you mentioned reminded me of a guide I clearly know was bad. This guy was not even on the 'B' team of the Montana outfitter I'd used before, because it turned out to be a busier than normal fall. I did this float with my wife who isn't a fly fisher, but my buddy had bailed on the trip and she thought it might be fun and I would have a photographer. Well, this hardly acknowledged she was in the boat. Never talked to her unless she said something to him and I had to prompt him to give her some water half-way through the trip. He did get me into two really nice Clark Fork rainbows but after the death defying 90 mph drive back to our camp I vowed never to use that outfitter again.

[@OregonFishingAdventures]

Im curious your opinion on this some of us with low income such as myself would love to go on a guided trip however it seems like providing a tip is also something guides would expect from clients however for some of us it would take quite a while just to save up enough for the guide trip in the first place. My question is do you feel tips are necessary when going on a guided trip? It's been one of the main reasons I haven't saved for a trip because it's kinda a deterrent for me considering it would take me 8-12 months just to save enough for a trip

[@larrycoonrod5563]

Do your research, get to water and try different things and see what works. Be your own guide. You probably won’t catch as many but at least the one’s you do catch will be yours and not some dude or dudette telling you what fly to use and where to cast.

[@OregonFishingAdventures]

@@larrycoonrod5563 oh trust me that's litterally all I do is pound the rivers and explore new areas I do alot of blue lines chasing as well I don't rely on a guide to get me on fish I've been fishing my whole life without one but I do like the idea of going on a guide trip and getting to go in a drift boat where I'll see parts of the rivers I normally can't access

[@gegalt]

@@OregonFishingAdventures Good questions and what a shame so many anglers are put off by "tip culture" I'm an American guide living in S. Korea. I have been tipped very well and not at all. One of the most meaningful "tips" I've ever recieved was from two teachers (both US expats teaching English: not exactly wealthy people) They explained at the end of the trip " So we aren't in the financial position to give you a large cash tip" but instead one guy gave me 20$ and the other guy gave me very cool glazed plate. Both guys apologized and felt a bit ashamed but thanked me for a great day. I told them no sweat and still use that plate often. Sure cash tips make guides feel good but pure honesty and sincerity go a long way also. In the case that you hire an independent guide and can't tip a large amount, outright honesty about your finances, love for learning and fishing might outweigh a tip. In lieu of a large tip, give what you can afford. Sending that guide prospective clients or hiring him or her again when your finances improve will leave a lasting impression. For guides that are working via an outfitter or lodge especially for international destinations - they expect and work hard for tips because the outfitter (operation owner) is often taking a percentage of the "guide fee" In return the outfitter often provides these contracted guides, cooks, drivers with fuel, insurance, gear and subsidizes their operational costs. For contracted guides, give as much as you can afford to give and certainly factor that into your budget. I'd suggest you split the cost of a trip with a friend or group of friends to reduce the total cost for your travel. If you don't have angling pals - look for a local fishing club. Surely, someone might be eager to join you on an adventure. The worst thing a client could do is leave ZERO tip even if the guide gave a full effort. In the case a client offered $0.00 tip, they might find the guide "fully booked" or unavailable should they try to book a future trip. For clients that have tipped me well and rebooked my services, they are always pleased when I offer them a discounted rate on rebooking my services + steak & whiskey lunches instead of the usual offerings.

[@OregonFishingAdventures]

@@gegalt thank you for that definitely helps me have a different perspective appreciate the advice and the time you took to write it

[@davidzielinski322]

the drawings are next level Ben. hahahaaha!

[@capt.craigbullara6110]

This is great man!

[@owenmurray1745]

You should do a video on Team USA Fly fishin / the competitive nymph guy scene Great content as always.

[@KuhChuck]

One of the rivers I fish has a lot of guides float by. There is one fantastic pool about 500yards downstream of one of the put-ins. ...but to fish it properly its a bit of effort at the end of the pool to row back up stream, then cut across the river to join the water that keeps you out of trouble. Its instantly obvious which guides care the most. The unfortunate part is just how many guides dont care! ...in particular when you can see the clients cant cast well and are learning. Almost guaranteed these guide skips this pool completely, stick in the fast run...and even push their oars downstream to go faster. "Whoa quick float today. River levels must be up from that rain we had in May".

[@skj468]

A bad fishing guide kills his own mom and yells at people on the river lol ( John shank)

[@PNWflyfishingsteve]

I moved to Oregon a year ago from Tamps Fl. I now know why my guides look at me crossed-eyed when I bring killer pastrami sandwiches and potato salad on my day trips. I am not a beer drinker, but no one has ever questioned my selection of bourbons on my trips. The guide keeps the bottle at the end. (DONT GET DRUNK AS A GUEST, that is just being a poor human) Keep me fishing I sip slower.

[@tomjackson3988]

Right, right, right. Thank you

[@-fishin]

That’s a nice looking Buford. I found a floatable musky creek to explore in the spring that’s not to far from me!

[@lyleburlingame2276]

So true dude. Just did my first guided trip as a customer. It’s was great and the guide was cool but I had a couple hand fulls of peanuts and pumpkin seeds for lunch on a full day trip, also, coffee, whiskey or anything to help with the cold would have been nice. I’m taking notes for my future clients. Thanks for tue great vid

[@dynamicphotography_]

I was with a group that won a competition at work. We got a guided trip as the reward. The guide kept telling me to stop twitching my rod to add presentation movement. He got offended. So when he wasn't looking I did it again. Finally, I caught THE ONE AND ONLY FISH in the boat that day. He caught me adding movement again later and raised his voice to stop doing it. The other guys, who were tired and pissed off that they had no fish, all piled on him at once and told him to shut up and sit down. I just kicked back and laughed. It was a crappy guide experience type of day. Lol Edit: He had a very expensive and shinny boat.

[@stephenhegedus6930]

I had a guide on the Henry’s Fork who didn’t provide flies and said I had to go to a local fly shop and buy some. Told me day before the trip, not in the trip planning, but he said this way I get to keep the flies. Not cool.

[@carlmoeller56]

50/50 on Guides. Some can be bullies to anglers they are not guiding. They also know their water like a golf knows his golf course. I fished Alaska, the Rockies and the NE. The most fun that I had was on my own.

[@robertwilcken8431]

Good stuff! My son and I hired a guide out of Elkhorn fly shop in Loveland. He took us to RMNP. We had a good time and learned. My son had a good tip $ for him and we were surprised when he took off while we were wrapping things up. I guess he didn't think he was getting one???

[@zachb2070]

Hands down. James @abouttrout takes the crown. I Can’t tell you his secrets. Gonna have to book him to find out.

[@BenEisinger]

OMG Thanks for bringing up the Keys Guides not only do they expect you to bring lunch for yourself and them there days are getting shorter and shorter yet they are charging more. Typically traveling to the Keys you are not familiar with the area so just finding lunch can be tough. They also like to yell even when they have rotten tippet which causes you to break off some nice fish they of course dont take ownership and blame you for setting to hard.................

[@tightliningmd]

LOL I just heard about this Keys thing where they expect the client to bring lunch. My mind was BLOWN. Good video Ben. Stay HUGE!

[@mastermason552]

The best guides respect the locals. They are guests after all, like they're clients. Anyhow, cheers from Montana 🍻 As a former over caffinated, broke fishing guide. This was a good bit. My home stretch on the Missouri, is jammed with guides. They launch at 10am, so I get in at 8. Cuz it's a shit show. Tight lines folks

[@cedricvinuesa5353]

A super indépendant guide in bozeman Yellowstone and Madison Timothy Schwarze. A nice and intelligent Man !

[@ugsisr]

Cold Beer and a killer Shore Lunch.... Like a bucket of Fried Chicken and maybe a good Cigar... Merry Christmas to You and Yours...

[@chriswrx1]

Ok, as someone who has NEVER used a fly fishing "guide" before, I have to say, I couldn't agree with your take on this more. I suck at fly fishing.

[@joeborgione5477]

One of these days I’ll encounter a good guide. My home water is a walk and wade and even with a hatch in overdrive, all I see are bobbers…. Err I mean indicators.😂

[@glenstanley5884]

Spot on Ben in many regards! However bringing lunch for Keys guides is not a new trend. Have been doing it for over 20 years.

[@robertcross6834]

We use indicators a lot to fish steelhead

[@bobh1208]

You're a (genuinely) funny guy... but I'm actually on the side of the Keys guides, on that one. I've never hired any guide myself, but did fish with my great uncle once with a neighbor/friend of his who was a fairly accomplished Keys guide... and, while I assumed he was getting paid, because my related-by-a-deceased-aunt, 86 year old uncle had had himself a long career as a surgeon... the guide/friend was fishing along with us, and not just guiding, and the thing that I found kind of amusing was that he wasn't shy about yelling at me, when I waited for him to guide a non-trophy seatrout into the net which I'd slightly submerged, instead of scooping at it before it fell off... which I took to be, Keys guides, at least the ones known to be worth hiring, do not feel like they have to kowtow to "the customer is always right" BS, so long as NONE of 'em are willing to... a "union" which I can respect (or at least be bemused by)! And, it's not like he was a better fisherman (despite having personally won a big Redfish tournament, which he himself didn't mention) (and possibly, not even a better netter)... but, he was definitely a better GUIDE than I could stand to be (and more patient... mostly by default!). And although a few days later he took me up on my offer to try poling him around after hours, and then take some shots myself if he got a bonefish, he did not get any tailers to take... but, the next time I went, with a neighborhood kid my uncle knew, I got one a quarter inch shy of 30 to the fork, (and not near any of the spots he had taken us, cuz I wouldn't do THAT, to someone who, at worst, had bemused me!)... and, I'm certain that fishing with him had helped inspire me to catch my first bonefish... despite it not being with him (mostly because I had not seen the point of the 'mostly NOT-fishing' stalking that goes into bonefishing, before that... but had really enjoyed the suspense, as it turned out... but of course that later nearly ten pounder that was my first bonefish happened to be an 'UN-stalked' one, which came swimming fast toward the boat, in three feet of water... and I hurriedly totally piled my tippet, with a Clouser, although four feet right in front of it... and yet, it was all over it... fortunately:).

[@edwardmlotkiewicz2343]

I had a guide I used for over 25 years in Upstate NY and he has a great lodge as well as great food and always put me on fish. Last year I went out with him and he jacked my prices by over double and requesting, no, DEMANDING, a 20% tip for the trip per day out and putting a tip jar on the table where we ate . I had always left a generous tip for the housekeeper. I will no longer use his services. As for my saltwater guide, salt of the earth. He's patient , a great teacher and encourages his clients to improve their skills. He has always been excited for us to catch fish and gives us the best chance to do so. He is gracious with what I always give for a tip ( which is 20% of the trip) .

[@Rob.Brown13]

Personally a day out with a guide is supposed to be educational and not just catch fish. I have paid for a guide the last 2 seasons chasing steelhead and I have learned an absolute ton from him. Yeah we caught fish, but if I can put what he is teaching me on the water into practice I am satisfied. Even just reading water, knowing where the fish would be at certain times of the year and why they are in those spots and what the fish are feeding on at those times of the year. I will continue to go year after year with him, it's such a good experience going out for a day and learning to better my techniques for better fishing when I am on my own. I feel bad for people that get stuck hiring a shitty guide. You may have to wait for a more premiere guide rather than an Instagram famous guide but it's more than worth it!

[@suchabadkitty1293]

"Instagtam famous" guide, lol. For me that just screams "AVOID".

[@Rob.Brown13]

@@suchabadkitty1293 as it should be :p but people fall for these guides because they post pictures of fish consistently when in reality that doesn't mean they are a good teacher or guide.

[@jamesjacobson3966]

Been on a number of guided trips the last 13 or 14 years. First one was on the upper Snake in Grand Teton and that got me hooked on fishing streams. Majority of my experience was directed to lakes then. Great trips followed on the Yakima, the Madison and the Elk in BC. Biggest jerk I met was on a trip into Yellowstone. He was with one of the better known shops in the area and should have known better, it had snowed the day before this was round Labor day. He was in LW wading pants & sandals and SS shirt . He was cold all day and boy did it show. Barking orders like a drill sergeant and just generally being an a…. If we hadn’t,come in his truck I’d have fired him and carried on solo. That was a few years ago now, I’m just about over it, just about😡

[@davejames990]

I refer to them as well…. Red ladies. But I’ve gone to the mustang ranch a few times. $600 on the Yakima. Wowsa! But he worked his ass off on an ok day

[@michaelburk9171]

Communication is definitely vital. What the clients want to do or accomplish and what the guide can offer in the location and conditions. Every one's different. But damn, I can't imagine spending hours with an expert, or at least better than me, and not taking advantage of that learning opportunity

[@robertdean3553]

Clint at the Red Moose on the Pere Marquette kept me so busy at the front of the boat that I didn't even realize he was grilling a steak dinner between his legs until I smelled it and he pulled up on a sandbar and handed me a beer.

[@robertdean3553]

That's a true story

[@dougr7771]

I say ask the client what they want to do and try to accommodate them. If you’re likely going to get skunked or nearly skunked trying to make the fish eat dry flies when the dry fly fishing sucks you are doing a disservice to the client. I like to break up the day and do both dry fly fishing and nymph fly fishing. If your client is ok with potentially getting skunked while trying to make it happen with the dry then that’s what you do end of story. Let them know what to expect dries vs nymphs and let the client decide that’s what being a good guide is all about to me. It is wrong to degrade another fisherman or Guide based on if they have a indicator on their line that day. If that is what makes them happy and they are having a blast why judge and degrade them and ruin their day by being rude and self righteous because that’s not how you choose to fish?

[@HugeFlyFisherman]

I think you’re missing the point here, Douglas. It’s not about the bobbers, it’s about the lack of effort.

[@dougr7771]

If you are a client and your Guide has you fishing dries and it’s just not happening and you’re guide isn’t changing your fly or method to try to give you a better experience then that is being lazy not the guide that completely re rigs you to a nymph rig trying everything thing in his power to make sure you are happy and not going home skunked. Sorry if you don’t see it that way.

[@HugeFlyFisherman]

I think you’re missing the point here, Douglas. It’s not about the dry flies, it’s about the lack of effort.

[@dougr7771]

If you are a client and your Guide has you fishing dries and it’s just not happening and you’re guide isn’t changing your fly or method to try to give you a better experience then that is being lazy not the guide that completely re rigs you to a nymph rig trying everything thing in his power to make sure you are happy and not going home skunked. Sorry if you don’t see it that way.

[@HugeFlyFisherman]

C’mon Doug. I changed my comment, you copypasted. You’re better than that. Maybe re-watch the video. You’re saying the same thing I am, you just can’t get over the feeling that you’re being personally attacked here, which may or may not be the case.

[@406FF]

Some of the guides that run the Bighorn in Montana need to watch this video….guides don’t own the water, they wish they did, but they don’t lol

[@futuremainiac6351]

You nailed it with the Florida guide thing. Some of those guys are just horrible. Be positive, help me get on fish, and don't be an jerk if I'm not the greatest fisherman you've ever met.

[@ronschlorff7089]

Good information, Ben, very useful for saving money on guiding. I've never had a guide, closest thing is a friend who did not want me to catch as many fish as he, and never told me what he was using or where he caught fish, I guess that's a bad guide! I think you may have bankrupt a lot of guides with this one, thanks a bunch say all those guys who suck or not at guiding. Yeah, the best guide is a family member who has fished a lot and actually cares about you. All he or she may want, for "payment", is for you to remember their 80th birthday, and maybe tie on a fly for them as their eyesight starts to fail!! They usually bring good lunches too, and maybe a flask of something "warming" on those cold mornings, streamside. LOL ;D

[@NuecesAngling]

Also, thanks for the No Pebble Mine shoutout Ben! We’ll have permanent protections soon I hope

[@jimreilly9179]

I could not agree more with you about the focus of "bad guides" on fish counts.

[@jakef1977]

Was a guide?? Dang man I was going to look you up and book a trip. You would be great to be in the boat with. I know nothing about fly fishing and cast about 3 feet and snap off the end of the hook. Oh well I'll just keep beating the heck out of the water with plugs. Haha

[@philliphaworth3387]

How about a video on how to be a good client for a guide? Had a guide who was so afraid to tell me I sucked (at that time, I was worse than “suck”!), that I couldn’t get any good constructive criticism from him. He finally gave in on the fifth lost hook set by saying “dude. That was abysmal!” That gave me a good laugh and I responded “how do I fix MY stupid? What am I not seeing?” We ended up having a lot of fun and netted some nice fish! He told me most clients get offended easily and leave pissed off bad reviews.

[@HugeFlyFisherman]

I did that video years ago. I’d link it for you, but it’s clear that you don’t mind doing the work yourself. I appreciate that.

[@Flyordie11300]

I guided for a few years. Nothing will make you hate other guides than becoming one. It literally makes them all instantly hate you for no reason. Fuck that.

[@BBZ0925cz]

I swear all guides are telling you to hook set constantly just to make it appear they put you on the fish.. Mixed bag for me, but mostly informative and helpful..

[@daviddill2702]

Really, a clean boat is an indication a poor guide? A messy, dirty boat, perhaps a lazy guide.

[@nickp.2432]

I honestly can't say. I am my own fishing guide. You guys cost way too much. 👍👍🇺🇸

[@FlipFlopFisher]

I love the videos, sarcasm and putting the jackass guides on blast. Stay HUGE!

[@Victor47930]

The best guide I ever had became a good friend. I even attended her wedding years later and she and her husband attended mine. And yeah, and F poseur Brian! 😂

[@jorgesven5197]

The preferred phrase for most of the bad guides is: "You should have come a few days ago...fishing was great !"

[@ronschlorff7089]

"....leaving today, back to Chicago? Too bad, gonna be some really hot hatches in two days!" LOL ;D

[@23v0lv32]

DAAAMN, Brian just got SMOKED!!!

[@bssaassin1900]

For some fish species and waters where it has a huge learning curb having a guide is necessary but paying hundreds for a guide on a mountain trout stream is silly.

[@daveschlom4033]

But what if I make lunch for my guide just so we fish more? I'd rather make a sandwich the night before than be one. Or something like that...Great video Ben. And Merry Fishmas!

[@milbyjames]

What you guide to tipping guides? 20% more less?

[@ronschlorff7089]

yeah, like a good restaurant tip!

[@johnlaudenslager706]

Yes!

[@r.w.flyvideos187]

Oh man I can’t wait to read these comments. This is huge!!

[@ebersoless]

What I love is after dropping $500 bucks on a half day of flopping bobbers, the guide cuts off the whole rig from my line and still expects a $100 tip.

[@ColeSlaw270]

I mean that tip money goes towards fly lost already. Why give away another three.

[@matthewsadler5458]

Those are my flies bruh. And unlike you, I have to fish the next 22 days, before I have a day off to tie more.

[@Jertahoe]

Did you ask for the rod and reel too?

[@r.w.flyvideos187]

@@matthewsadler5458 homeboy expects you to rig up two new leaders before every trip too apparently.

[@ronschlorff7089]

Rule about tips, never tip in the boat on the water, you may have to swim, if he/she does not like the amount! LOL ;D

[@Hrogthar]

Most guides suck but consider themselves "one of the good guides" while "all the others are the bad guides." There's 1 good guide for every 20. The problem is, the people that can actually get value out of a guide don't know how to find the good one, and ends up with one of the 20 that blast their marketing all over instagram and Facebook, pretend to be something they're not. (Typically friendly, good at fishing, or a renowned fly tier with "unique" flies that are really just a fly someone else already tied, but they changed one thing and named it theirs.) The scourge that is trust fund kids and social media wannabes putting their own ego ahead of actually doing the low pay job that is fly fishing guiding, is massively detrimental to the hobby. Because their actions 'influence' the whole of fly fishing culture, and they're making it look plastic, corporate, and lame.

[@ronschlorff7089]

thanks for the PSA. I suppose it is true what astrophysicists say about the Universe and entropy, eventually everything you can think of, including our great pass times hobbies, will "fall to shit", over time.

[@WatersEquipment]

Enjoyed this a lot thanks Ben

[@philipvankampen3394]

Yeah, seriously, when did fly fishing become about how many fish you catch?! Worms are a lot cheaper than guides if all you wanna do it is catch fish. And, there's always some beer and somebody to talk to sitting on the bank of your local river. Shit, you may even get a lunch out of it. (in the South you probably will)

[@suchabadkitty1293]

"Stop telling people you're a guide; you're a lawyer!" 😆

[@arreese6573]

Anyone had good luck with guides on the green river? Struck out twice but really want to go back

[@suchabadkitty1293]

Jimmy Cohen. Excellent guide and a good guy.

[@amicuselit]

Well put. Good guides are customer obsessed. As the paying customer. If I want to throw streamers all day at the expense of catching fewer fish, that’s on me.

[@douglasrandall6737]

I have always caught more fish wading myself than with a guide, always!