Flying at altitude without OXYGEN! What happens?

[@thecrow3380]

While all your videos are both entertaining and interesting, this one was special for me, because: I have late-stage COPD, and am 70 years old, barreling down on my own personal demise. My baseline oxygen level is around 89%, and staggering to the bathroom drops me to 82%. I rarely get below that, since further movement becomes next-to impossible. Certainly, I don't have much fun any more. Which is why watching your somewhat quirky productions amuses me so much :) It's the most flying fun I can have, minus an aircraft. Well done, as usual! (:>

[@ShortField]

Thank you sir, as always.

[@harmonised8353]

Hope you continue to enjoy this channel, and that you can keep enjoying life!

[@roygilby4513]

The video of your Engine Management Screen would also make a geat education video for student pilots, as it clearly demonstrates the effect of increasing altitude on engine performance. Your manifold pressure indicator shows the steady reduction in manifold pressure. as you climbed. A great video - thanks.

[@wkboggs5]

Great information! Nice to see the progression. Thanx Terry

[@oscarcharlybravo]

Really good video about the danger of high altitude without oxygen! Well done 👍

[@ShortField]

Thank you David

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I enjoyed that Terry, love the graphics, if only I had your skills. FL090 upwards really is the break point which matches the aviation medical figures. FL100 is set as the safe limit for a reason as the pressure drop is not linear. Good content as always.

[@ShortField]

Cheers Giles, I totally agree and it's the length of time at that altitude that seems to be the thing, I spent about 25 minutes at FL100 waiting to clear the Class A above me which is when it started to kick in. It was an interesting exercise and an eye opener for me. Thanks for your support and your always kind comments.

[@hefeibao]

Excellent video! I think it good noting that it's worth buying a reader to see how you do as an individual. I have flown with people who are much younger and have stated that they have flown hours over 10,000' and not really felt affected, even at night. Which was spooky to me as I remember in my training that it was advised to take some O2 if flying at night > 5000'. I also know as an older (over 50) person our circulation isn't as good as it used to be. A good reminder for me to take one up with me on my next flight just to see how I do. :)

[@ThomasGrillo]

Amazing what just 15 percent less O2 in the system can do to you. I remember being on a commercial flight from Atlanta, Georgia, to Chicago, Ilinois, back in 91, to attend an holography symposium. As we were taxying out to the runway, the flight attendant announced we were unable to ascend above 14,000 feet, due to cabin pressurization system failure. We did go to about 13,000, and I do recall feeling lightheaded during the time we were at that altitude. The tradeoff for not being able to go to 25,000 was that we were treated to a lovely view of the world below. Thanks for the video. :)

[@ShortField]

Thanks Thomas

[@JodelFlyer]

Another interesting topic which you have covered well Terry. I have to say I have not flown much at altitude and 10,000ft has been my max.

[@ShortField]

Thank you Tim. I think what I'm trying to show is that flying at any altitude above 6,000ft will start to have an affect even if it starts off pretty minor.

[@11clarkm]

Very informative, thanks Terry!

[@ShortField]

Thank you so much, very kind.

[@andycampbell5491]

I regularly fly at FL80 to 100 without any issues, do remember that the majority if commercial aircraft have cabin altitudes of round 8000, with the 787 as low as 6000, i flew in a Praetor 600 a few weeks ago and that has the lowest in their class at 5,800. So, those of us that fly commercial regularly are use to FL80 cabin alts. I occasionally fly at FL110 to 120 and feel no effects. Physiologically we are all different and therefore react and feel the effects of hypoxia differently the younger you are the more tolerant. Also, the rate of ascent affects useful consciousness time is greater. During my time in the RAF we did hypoxia training every five years, initially at North Luff and then it moved to Henlow. During testing, six plus a doctor would be in the chamber, the 'cabin' is initially reduced to 8000' before a rapid decompression to 25000'. During the decompression, the chamber fills with mist until the pressure equalises. At this point we would all go onto oxygen. One by one we would remove our masks and were given simple tasks to do; perhaps count backwards in twos from 1000 and write it down, at the same time you would have to look up a particular frequency from an En-route supplement - all simple tasks. Observations of yourself (while still able) were the usual symptoms, blue fingernails, light headed, euphoria (latter stages) and symptoms in others, blue lips. After 2-3 mins useful consciousness time you would be told to put your mask on. Now this is where it gets funny or dangerous depending you point of view. Some would get it on immediately and then suck O2 until they were almost hyperventilating and then there are the others that would say "yep ok just give me a minute I'm still working on the problem". At this point it's probably too late to recover without intervention. I don't think many would get past 980 on the count down. Your cognitive reasoning just diminishes. So, when the airlines tell you to get your mask on yourself first, it means yourself first, not your loved ones YOU! why? because after a rapid decompression at FL390 useful consciousness is around 20 secs on a good day. Helping your child could make you a casualty. Helping yourself will save your child.

[@ShortField]

Wow fantastic comment Andy thanks so much.

[@mlawson123]

Enjoying the channel, another great video.

[@ShortField]

So kind thank you.

[@manekdubash5022]

I once took a Cessna 172 up to 12,000 feet, just for the craic. Goodness, did it take a while! This was during my PPL training, which I did in Florida because being UK-based, it was sooo much cheaper; this was back in the 1980s when fuel prices here were 4x what they were in the US. It was sobering because, yes, I did start to feel pretty unwell and headed back down fast. Below about 9,000 feet, I started to feel better. This was many moons ago, mind, when I was both younger and fitter. Wouldn't do it now, even if my PPL were still current - which it isn't :(

[@vargapa101]

Never flew this high but skiing in the Alps at 10.000 ft elevation gives me headaches every time. I need a couple of days to get used to it and stay below 8.000 feet. Can't imagine what it would do to my capacity if I climbed this fast to 11.000. Very useful video, thanks.

[@ShortField]

Thanks Pavol, I too go skiing (when Mr.Covid's not around) and I too suffer when above 3,200m. Thank you for your kind comments.

[@MichaelBrooksDr]

Hi Terry, great video! Emergency Medicine doctor here and would be student pilot if I weren't medically grounded. Take a look at the Oxygen-Haemoglobin Dissociation Curve. You'll see that SpO2 starts to drop quite rapidly as the partial pressure of oxygen in the air gets below 7kPa. It's to do with the way haemoglobin has evolved to hold on to oxygen quite tightly until your red blood cells encounter a tissue in need of it. Once SpO2 starts getting below 88% the drop off becomes quite rapid. That dissociation curve explains your measurements quite well: a slow reduction over the first few 1,000 feet, then SpO2 falls faster and faster with each extra 500 ft of altitude you gain despite the partial pressure of O2 falling off linearly with height.

[@altomar718]

Nice one Terry .... as always.... cant really comment on the maximum altitude as I've only been to 7500 feet, but as an ex Paramedic, we would have concerns when patients hit 87% bit of course, some people with illness can have low Sp02 readings, in fact some can be made much worse if they are on what is called hypoxic drive

[@ShortField]

That's really interesting Chris. I suppose, as the low reading is due to environmental reasons and not through illness and the fact that as soon as you return to normal conditions the reading goes back then all should be good, but I was so surprised at how low it got. Thanks for the kind comment Chris.

[@altomar718]

@@ShortField Normally, our breathing it stimulated by an increase in CO2 .... run for the bus, less O2 breathing rate goes up... Some people with long term breathing problems 'get used to not having much oxygen and they can get stimulated by the O2 levels instead ... so if they are given oxygen in high levels, it can result in death .... ha ha... you asked 🤣🤣

[@GULLPERCHFLYER]

Another interesting film Terry, I noted your pulse did not waver too much above 82 bpm, I think mine would have been racing you must have good cucumber qualities !!

[@ShortField]

Thanks Chris I always try and learn something everytime I fly and on this one I learnt that I will stick to lower altitudes in future :-) Thanks for your kind comments and as for the pulse, I can assure you, there's plenty of things that get it racing :-)

[@pilotlanham]

Awesome video as always Terry, very eye opening, hopefully many will add a little oxygen meter to their flight bag !

[@ShortField]

Thanks Matt, I always seem to learn stuff making these videos. Thank you.

[@paulgoffin9269]

Thanks for the video and experiment on yourself. If it nice to see that the haemoglobin oxygen dissociation curve they taught us at medical school really does work. After the plateau that slope really does go down quickly!

[@ShortField]

Cheers Paul, it is weird as I often fly between 7-8000ft never take an oximeter as I didn't think I needed it but climbing just a few 1,000 ft higher I now realise you will be affected even if it's not something that tangible to yourself at the time but your reactions and awareness must be affected. The issue with flying is that you don't get anytime to acclimatise from 250ft to 10,000ft took less than 25 minutes and your body has no time to adapt. Nice to hear from a professional in the field. Thank you for your kind comments.

[@Rich-Flies]

Interesting video. Reminds me of a book I read probably 15 years or more ago, "They Called It Pilot Error," in which the author made the argument that many of the crashes studied in the book that the NTSB had ruled pilot error, he was arguing that hypoxia likely played a role. I used to be a paramedic, so I happened to agree with his analyses. I think it is actually a very good idea to use oxygen at much lower altitudes than what the FAA requires. Thanks for the video.

[@ShortField]

Thanks for watching and your kind comments Rich. I can see how you could be right. I'm 54 years old and averagely fit maybe a little overweight and I was surprised how poorly I coped. The O2 requirement does not take into account a persons fitness and we've all seen the larger pilot and after doing this I wonder how they would cope?

[@Rich-Flies]

@@ShortField It's been 3 weeks since I commented, as I've been recovering from covid after 8 days in the hospital... But yes, weight will definitely take a toll on how well a person perfuses. And now that I've gone through covid, and I'm at home using oxygen, at this point, I'm actually hoping that I will one day again be able to fly. Right now, on room air, sitting in my recliner, I'm generally about 92%. No way would I consider flying at this point. Hopefully that will improve. But anyway, yes, speaking as someone who is a fair bit overweight (probably about 40 pounds over what I should be), that weight does have a definite effect on how well I perfuse, especially during activity, even before covid.

[@ShortField]

@@Rich-Flies Oh no! Glad to hear you're on the mend but OMG! I cannot argue with that 92% was not so bad for me but I have no idea how it actually affected my mental agility. I'm sure with Covid as well as the lung effect other symptoms of this terrible disease must come into play. Get well soon buddy and get back in the skies. Terry

[@RaceMentally]

I’ve never felt like what you said 12500 and under. I find this interesting.

[@neilbarriskell7840]

Enjoyed that, interesting

[@ShortField]

Cheers Neil.

[@flyingkub]

You have to consider O2 at FL and NOT QNH as on a low pressure day the O2 levels are even lower. I was in a Victor with a pressure failure at FL355 and we had to go to O2 for a prolonged period and that really makes your mouth dry.

[@ShortField]

Very true, need to hear that story in full!

[@flyingkub]

@@ShortField Well when you see me some place just ask.

[@SimonAmazingClarke]

Over 4,000 feet affects night vision. As you mentioned time is a factor too. Even 7,000 feet can affect you as I found out at the Grand Canyon.

[@ShortField]

I was amazed at even low levels things go downhill very quickly. It must make you laugh in the US that our flight levels start at 6,000 ft :-)

[@SimonAmazingClarke]

@@ShortField we are so used to living at sea level. The US is very interesting, you can drive on roads that are twice the height of Ben Nevis!

[@ShortField]

@@SimonAmazingClarke sorry thought you were in the US 🙂🤣

[@ThePhobicFlyer]

Great and very interesting video. Love the avionics in your PS-28. Have you always flown a stick aircraft? Do you prefer it to a yoke? Andy.

[@ShortField]

Cheers for the kind comment and watch Andy. This is the first stick aircraft I've had in 30 years of flying yoke's. No issues what-so-ever, it takes about 30 seconds to transition to stick your using the same thought process. Thanks again Andy

[@petersatchwell1910]

Nice one Terry. As a matter of interest have you looked into the accuracy of the device?

[@ShortField]

Cheers Pete. I actually did the whole thing before this with a different Oximeter but the screen didn't come out on the video it just flickered so I brought a new one (this one) and did the whole video again but still had the flickering problem but I found by holding it in the footwell the camera shutter speed slowed down enough to show the figures. The readings from the two different flights were almost exactly the same. I'm 54 and averagely fit maybe a little overweight and I was surprised how poorly I coped. In fact after doing this I came home and did a Covid test....it was negative.

[@CalicoWoodworking]

As you sped more time at lower oxygen levels your body will produce more red blood cells to better carry oxygen. A lot of athletes will sleep in an altitude chamber for a few weeks before an event.

[@ShortField]

Good point, but I was up at +10,000ft in less than 30 minutes. Thank you for that insight.

[@0error.389]

At 10:58 you read the flight level as 1150 instead of 115. I wonder if that was because of hypoxia.

[@ShortField]

Very possible :-) either that or I'm just a bit stupid :-)

[@crisjpalmer]

Awesome video Terry, although I think the danger presented to me at flying 12,000ft, would be dying of boredom trying to get there in a C152 🤣 How far north east did you have travel, in order to get away from the LTMA?

[@ShortField]

Cheers Chris, around the Beccles area and north of there controlled airspace is literally non-existent for our aircraft. Thanks for the kind comments buddy.

[@blueskies8710]

I got a 152 to 16,700 feet was my highest!

[@nyrubin]

U might be taking off from 8,000’ 😅

[@N9197U]

My personal altitude record is 11,000 for an hour, I felt the air was drier than I was used to on the ground. When landing, I felt okay but I am a young adult.

[@ShortField]

Deffo affects me, I do manage to get through an annual medical though :-)

[@FlyMeAirplane]

Are your numbers Density Altitude? Hope so. I fly at 12K fairly often, sometimes for 4 hours as the time there has a big effect also. A few times I found my O2 at 87% but some deep breathing took it back to 92%. I'm a non-smoker in good shape so that makes a difference. Try deep breathing next time!

[@quantomic1106]

Always throws me off whenever someone calls altitudes less than 18,000' as flight level.

[@ShortField]

I’m not in the US our transition level starts at 6,000ft, if I didn’t switch to Flight Levels I would potentially bust airspace or risk collision.

[@porkorosso7885]

Basically the fact is that 80% of the earth’s air (Nitrogen and Oxygen) is below 10k feet.

[@ShortField]

Good job the Earths flat then :-)

[@tomholmez12]

what engine does the aircraft have? I see rpm is around 5000 which seems very high

[@ShortField]

Oh it's a Rotax they are high revving engines but there's a reduction gearbox which brings the prop speed down to more normal levels i.e below supersonic.

[@tomholmez12]

Ah ha yeah i did wonder about it being geared

[@naderalrattat]

What about commercial flight like let's say 6 hours flight is it the same i mean will i have hypoxia? or they have more oxygen? please i need to know if someone on the ground 98% what will happen to him if he flyes 6 hours?

[@ShortField]

Airliners are pressurised so don’t worry sir 👍

[@naderalrattat]

@@ShortField i feel bad on airplanes at high altiude around 35000 feet is it because the oxygen is lower at high altitude? i want to know your opinion.

[@KathmannRobert]

You took a big risk with this attempt. The lack of oxygen in particular causes impairments and therefore misperceptions and irrational behavior. Without a safety pilot, this self-experiment was pure senselessness, showmanship and dangerous. It's a shame, I expected more common sense from a pilot with your experience.

[@ShortField]

That's what I was trying to demonstrate, even at relatively low levels you can get affected.

[@robinrother1799]

This " experiment" simply confirms what we learn in "Human Performance" teaching. It also shows a pilot exploring his limitations and learning from this exercise without doing anything dangerous. Maybe you don't fly yourself and don't realise that. This guy did all the right things and monitored his responses while he did so. And he didn't get to 7-degree air at FL110 quickly. He did all this, videoed his performance, and clearly reviewed the video for everyone's benefit. He learned from the experience in a much more memorable way than reading about it. And it was all pretty much as expected. I speak as someone who regularly flies from Scotland to places like the English Channel, Denmark and the Faroes. I use an oximeter and do mental arithmetic exercises, and I know that I need supplemental O2 if I stay at FL120 for much more than 30 minutes. On the other hand, if you're an anxious smoker and are hyperventilating, you'd be in a much worse state at six or seven thousand feet.

[@banjo2019]

I don’t know if flying at 11,000 feet for a few minutes, connected to an oximeter, qualifies as dangerous. It was probably a safe experiment as shown here given that the effects of hypoxic hypoxia take time to affect judgment.