Flying Failures - SNCASE S.E.2010 Armagnac

[@ianr]

Must admit I had never heard of this. Excellent video! 👍🙂

[@scootergeorge7089]

The mentioned Skyshark failed due to the T-40 turboprop. Fortunately, Douglas chief engineer Ed Heinemann was already working on the A-4 Skyhawk, AKA "Scooter" which was a huge success.

[@thomash2806]

Max Hymans, Air France’s chairman from 1948 until his death in 1961, preferred the Constellation over the Armagnac.

[@Steve-GM0HUU]

Another excellent video, thank you. 👍

[@elliotdryden7560]

I , too, had never heard of this airplane either! Too bad even the Pratt Corncobs were insufficient for the task of powering this giant. Still, thanks for getting me singing The Kinks "Autumn Armagnac" in my head for the rest of the afternoon..... 🤭

[@alan-sk7ky]

An elegant aircraft,

[@adrianrutterford762]

Saturday Morning coffee break viewing sorted. Thank you

[@brendangarvin7787]

Attempting to build a plane whose engines run on expensive brandy was probably not the best idea.

[@scootergeorge7089]

The American made, Pratt and Whitney R-4360? Probably ran best on 115/145 avgas which was dyed purple so that the fuel can be visually identified. That was 115 octane. Then there was the somewhat lesser 100/130, blue in color.

[@brucepickess8097]

Yep, was there some confusion between Alcohol rating and Octane rating.😏

[@stevenrobinson2381]

@@scootergeorge7089 the ONLY way the R-4360 ran at rated power was on purple juice-otherwise-it was severely de rated.

[@scootergeorge7089]

@@stevenrobinson2381 - Define "severely." In 1977 I was assigned to a Naval Air Reserve Unit, NARU that operated a US-2B powered by R-1820 radial engines. When the purple juice was no longer available, we had to slightly detune the engines, a couple degrees less pitch on the props and a timing change. Not much. I believe with water-alcohol injection, the "corncob" would have regained most of the power lost by being restricted only 100 octane blue fuel.

[@jayreiter268]

@@scootergeorge7089 Correct the 4360 and later 3350 Turbo compound ran on 115/145 octane. That fuel is 115 octane F3 motor method test (lean mixture) and 145 octane F4 motor method test (rich mixture). At max power air cooled engine use rich mixture for valve and piston crown cooling. For exhibition aircraft can be run on 100LL but with boost limited. About 25years ago there was 100/130 and 115/145 in short runs for air racing. I do not know what the big air race engines burn now.

[@ak1ranger]

The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser also had 6 abreast seating in the section of the aircraft that had a coach configuration.

[@drdoolittle5724]

Nice one Sir, thank you!

[@greenseaships]

Thank you so much for bringing us more of this plane! I've been intrigued ever since it topped your list of airliners which failed to make a profit. I DO wanna say that your Places Lost in Time series is one of my favorite sub-series on KZbin! I hope you will do more of those soon.

[@drstevenrey]

It was massive. Huge. Gigantic. Even if it was powered by four PW maintenance nightmares. These were seriously big engines but they look like toys on this ship.

[@simonf8902]

The Comet, despite its flaws was the way ahead even in 1949. Piston engines were obsolete with the advent of the jet engine.

[@sandervanderkammen9230]

de Havilland was decades behind in aircraft design and construction technology.. The company while reaching for the 1960s _Jet Age_ still had its feet firmly planted in the 1930s.! The _Comet Disaster_ was the worst engineering failure in the history of commercial jet aviation and today is seen as a example of how not to build a jet airliner. Of course the real tragedy of the Comet Disaster was that it could have been easily prevented if de Havilland had used modern technology and simply followed well-known and understood industry standards for construction of pressurized cabins made from riveted aluminum alloys

[@CharlesStearman]

@@sandervanderkammen9230 According to Wikipedia, the Comet actually used very advanced technology for the time (including the use of aluminium alloys) and was extensively tested before going into service. Metal fatigue was still poorly understood at the time so extensive testing was carried out that appeared to show it would not be a problem, but it appears that the fuselage used for the fatigue tests had already bee subjected to other tests that masked the effects of fatigue. After some modifications, the Comet returned to service and later became the basis for the Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft.

[@sandervanderkammen9230]

@@CharlesStearman The Comet Disaster investigations uncovered gross incompetence and criminal negligence. It was clearly demonstrated during the investigation that de Havilland used improper test methods and did not understand the test procedures or the data produced by them. Bollocks! Metal fatigue was discovered in Germany by Wilhelm August Albert in 1837 by 1954, fatigue in metal airframe structures was well-known and understood by industry leaders. Junkers produced the first All-metal pressurized aircraft in 1931. Boeing, Junkers, Douglas and Lockheed were all building all-metal pressurized aircraft when de Havilland was still building aircraft like the wood and fabric biplane, Dragon Rapide. Comet 1 was an unmitigated failure, it was ordered grounded in 1954 and its airworthiness certification was permanently revoked. The Comet 4 is a completely redesigned aircraft, it was voluntarily grounded in 1980 after irreparable fatigue damage was found throughout the remaining fleet. That is a popular but completely false myth, the Hawker Siddley Nimrod is not a Comet, it was designed and built decades later by a different company and has a different type certification. There are no significant structures or parts that intercchange with the Comet. Any questions lad?

[@sandervanderkammen9230]

@@CharlesStearman The Comet Disaster was a truly shameful and humiliating chapter in British history but the real tragedy was that it could have been easily prevented if de Havilland had simply followed well-known and understood industry standards for the design and construction of pressurized cabins made from riveted aluminum alloys. de Havilland never fully adopted modern aircraft construction technology and was still building aircraft primarily from wood when it entered receivership and ceased to exist in 1958.

[@None-zc5vg]

@@sandervanderkammen9230 The early Comets were thin-skinned because of the need to reduce operating weight as a result of the low-powered D.H. engines.

[@atatexan]

Impressive research, sir.

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

Weren't Lockheed's Constellations larger?

[@ThreenaddiesRexMegistus]

You have to hand it to the French, their planes had beautiful aesthetics, or they looked like bits of the Eiffel Tower given wings, no in between. That large tri-motor was simply magnificent!

[@obelic71]

Lots of French tech has artistic flair added to its enginering. f.e. look at the Citroën DS a futuristic innovative engineered car from the early 's 50 that was displayed as an artpiece at the Louvre! The French have a strange enginering gene in them. Their tech is on the divine world changing level or total utter crap. There is no middle ground.

[@k3D4rsi554maq]

I wouldn't say that that applies to pre-war French aircraft.

[@atilllathehun1212]

Good video. Can we have one on the Breda-Zappata BZ308 .

[@drstevenrey]

The Armagnac was, with all its faults, a very good looking ship. It reminds me of the Constellation.

[@edutaimentcartoys]

the legend aircraft

[@drstevenrey]

Société nationale des constructions aéronautiques du Sud-Est, ist normally shortened simply to Sud-Est. Or totally spelled S.N.C.A.S.E.

[@nikoscosmos]

Did the wing spar encroach into the passenger cabin?

[@DaveSCameron]

Good shit!

[@stevenrobinson2381]

Holy cow-that was one BIG ass bird. Underpowered-even with R-4360's-dang.

[@SubCapt]

Ouch, tricky one here. FWIW, "SNCASE" being the acronym of "Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques du Sud Est", it should actually be pronounced "Sud-Est". I.e., here, "Sud-Est Armagnac", not "SN-Case Armagnac". Same for SNCASO, which is pronounced "Sud-Ouest".

[@johannesdenholt4928]

Wasn't the TU-114 the first airliner to introduce 6 abreast seating?

[@greenseaships]

TU-114 airliner first flew in April 1960. Many years after the Aramgnac.

[@Andrewjg_89]

My Dad probably would know that aircraft because he saw those aircraft when he was in the Army and they were quite massive planes with powerful engines and impressive speed.

[@Roy-gi5ul]

Kind of reassuring that not only the UK via the Brabazon Committee lived in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

I think a lot of Armagnac went into this venture.

[@Shadow_x12]

Do the history of the Siemens Desiros

[@Sublette217]

Just as well that they never got around to installing those Allison T40 turboprops. No design using it was ever successful, although the U.S. Navy endured it in the Convair P5Y / R3Y for a mere two years before the engine reliability issues caused them to throw in the towel. One of the P5Y prototypes was destroyed in a crash due to the catastrophic failure of one of the T40s.

[@simonf8902]

Meanwhile all the French colonial ports would be gone by late 1950 s. 😂

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

Except for the 13 that still remain as French.

[@buckdanny9062]

Mister simon here is butthurt about something lol

[@rapidthrash1964]

Honestly, it looks like a supersized Victors Viscount

[@brucepickess8097]

Vickers Viscount.

[@Norm-ih2rq]

"Dark days of ww2"? Was there an eclipse or something?

[@sandervanderkammen9230]

The darks days before the British empire was defeated..

[@mikecawood]

A piston engined aircraft built when everyone else was building turboprop and turbojet powered aircraft.

[@jamest2401]

The Armagnac would have been a more handsome aircraft if it had had a longer nose section in front of the flight deck windscreen. As it was, it was too snub-nosed.

[@tumakbaluk]

French Quebec in the united states? 😅 you mean Quebec in Canada 🤓

[@nemo6686]

The French screwed-up Indochina after the British left, not the Japanese.

[@sandervanderkammen9230]

You need to study-up on your SouthEast Asia history lad...

[@nemo6686]

@denniswilson8013 You seem to be unaware that Britain occupied Vietnam in 1945, stabilised it - with the use of Japanese troops - then handed it to the French. Unfortunately, the French post-war state did not send their best to resume control, which led to Dien Bien Phu, etc. Did you know any of that?

[@nemo6686]

@@sandervanderkammen9230 Er, wut?

[@sandervanderkammen9230]

@@nemo6686 Your comments make no sense lad... Vietnam was a French colony, not British.

[@sandervanderkammen9230]

@@nemo6686 How do you think communism got a foothold in Vietnam??? From the Japanese???

[@shtehfaw]

Armagnac? See, that's why you're the older brother.

[@darrylbrown634]

Except SNIKERS bars!!!!!!

[@darrylbrown634]

Or.....Snickers????

[@burntnougat5341]

An airplane named after brandy. No wonder it couldn't take off

[@jaygee5693]

More likely named after the Armagnac region, than after the brandy also named for that region.

[@danieleregoli812]

Naming an aircraft after a liquor was certainly the issue with It... 😂

[@chefchaudard3580]

Take a shot every time he says « Armagnac »! OK, that was easy… The aircraft was too heavy, btw. The engineers at the time were not familiar with stress skin and multiple bracing and reinforcements in the fuselage overweight it. Add to that the complete failure of the unreliable, underpowered Gnome Rhône engines… Constellation and other US airliners were much more economical.

[@stevenrobinson2381]

Gnome -Rhone had nowhere near the power outputs in their engines-that beast had Pratt & Whitney R-4360 engines-and it was still underpowred.

[@stephmaccormick3195]

Run away from anything starting with SN...

[@sandervanderkammen9230]

Or D-H

[@joerivers1768]

Is it a rule that all French aircraft are Butt Ugly?

[@briansteffmagnussen9078]

Haahaahhhaha a stretch French Ju.

[@Paper246]

First lol

[@alancrisp1582]

🥱 I have scanned the entire universe, and couldn't find a soul that cares less about you being first !!.......

[@simonf8902]

Typical French hubris. 😂

[@12345fowler]

Typical French bashing

[@sandervanderkammen9230]

Hubris? Like the British Comet Disaster?

[@MrJimheeren]

So how’s that English aircraft industry going for ya.