Flying the SAAF Cheetah | Cobus Toerien (Part 2)

Former SAAF Cheetah pilot, Cobus Toerien, shares transitioning from the Mirage F1 to the Cheetah, the role of the aircraft, the jets modifications, DACT including going up against Russian SU-30/32s and we wrap up with some questions from our Patrons!
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[@cirrusflyerh2843]

I went to school in Kroonstad but spent every Christmas holiday at Langebaan from 1970 to 1985. My love for aviation came from watching these guys tear up the sky over Langebaan and Saldanha bay. I was selected to join the airforce for basic training in 1986 but we saw the writing in the wall for the country. Left in 1987 to make a life in Oz. Happily flying my Cirrus SR22G5 now. Not a Cheetah but just as sexy and slick in its class. Been back to SA for business a few times since and cry every time i fly out of Cape Town wondering how amazing the country could have been if history took a different course.

[@louisdebruyn4395]

Your heart must be breaking for the state SAAF and Denel is in today!!

[@muddyboots1881]

'n Boer maak 'n plan! What typically South African expression driving a lot of the ingenuity, especially during those days. What a great guy old Cobus is - the enthousiasm just shines through

[@RebelWithACause-ts7de]

Rech ou swaar....we were there too making camouflage systems to protect the hardware on the Border. The foreign military attachés were gefoked 'n bedoornat what they saw how we developed our own camouflage netting production system without Bofors or the French.

[@moosesnWoop]

yeah, sanctions will do that to ya

[@RebelWithACause-ts7de]

@@moosesnWoop Sanctions were the best thing that happened to South Africa. They were forced into developing their own great battle proven technology. While we were selling SA made products to Armscor, we were also selling to the Americans and even Cuba via via. when officially the Americans wouldn't buy a pencil from SA. A certain SADF general enjoyed Cuban Esplendidos cigars and Havana Club rum that we traded for cases of cold Castle beer across the Cunene River.

[@moosesnWoop]

​@@RebelWithACause-ts7de true, SA breeds the world innovators. For example, I realised that Mark Shuttleworth create Ubuntu with some others, and that's the world's 3rd biggest OS - What about Elon or the guy who invented prately We have a DIY culture that stems from Sanctions

[@montys420-]

Sanctions caused a necessity, and necessity is the mother of all invention!

[@alwynnel753]

Flying with the Taiwanese, now that's a story we need to hear much much more about

[@kpsig]

This is probably the best interview in your channel up to now, for me. A great aviator Mr Toerien has been.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers!

[@osatoo98]

Kaiser tufail interview is my favourite one

[@bensmith7536]

Agree with you, and i get the feeling he has much more to tell. Hopefully, we see him again.

[@InpointmediaAuSydney]

...I was lucky enough to be the first non aircrew to fly backseat in the new top secret Cheetah out of Pietersburg in 1987 as a SAAF Ops Int officer.....I came across Kobus and his colleagues on many occasions including staying at Waterkloof Officers Mess opposite 2 Squadron.....

[@markclulow]

Well done Cobus. You're a legend

[@stevefish4240]

A great pilot and a real gentleman

[@louwvandermerwe178]

Yosi Lavi, Israel Kriger, Uzi Ronen. Yogai Eshkol were in SA

[@GaryLaaks1]

Proud to be a South African. Those were the days. Regards from Port Elizabeth.

[@grahamh6201]

Another Awesome interview Andrew. Cobus, I dont know you, but the manner in which you articulate your answers, is absolutely great. Good to hear some stories of old..

[@Kakgashpat]

Thanks for this interview. I grew up on AFB Langebaanweg and had the privilege of sitting in Spotty and seeing it fly a display. Absolutely brute in power and a beautiful aircraft on the ground and air. Living on the base the Cheetahs would fly low over the school when they visited the base for air combat training over the ocean. They absolutely buzzed the hell out of the school.

[@cirrusflyerh2843]

I went to school in Kroonstad but spent every Christmas holiday at Langebaan from 1970 to 1985. My love for aviation came from watching these guys tear up the sky over Langebaan and Saldanha bay. I was selected to join the airforce for basic training in 1986 but we saw the writing in the wall for the country. Left in 1987 to make a life in Oz. Happily flying my Cirrus SR22G5 now. Not a Cheetah but just as sexy and slick in its class. Been back to SA for business a few times since and cry every time i fly out of Cape Town wondering how amazing the country could have been if history took a different course.

[@m_jackson]

I was born on the base in Langebaan, my dad was a fitter on the Impalas. Those SAAF planes hold a special place in my heart. I could never afford to be a pilot, but at least I get to fly RC planes.

[@louwvandermerwe178]

It was actually the prototype Su 35

[@bristolboer2910]

BRILLIANT video! You have to absolutely hate aviation and/or military history to give this a thumbs down!

[@Aircrewinterview]

Best comment of the week! Cheers.

[@LockOnNow]

Great Part 2 Mike, thanks 👍a lot for getting it across, those were the great days when the SAAF had great combat jets. Mr.Cobus Toerien is a real Gentleman 🎩hats off could listen to him for hours talking about all those great Jets from the great past like the Mirage IIICZ, Mirage F-1CZ, AZ, Cheetah thanks a lot for sharing those lovely memories Mr. Cobus Toerien. My favourite were always the Mirages, just call them the (Brigitte Bardot)Top Sexy French Model and Actress during the 60ths and 70ths, of the combat fighters. The Mirage simply a beauty and a sexy appearance in the Sky when at the ground you felt like she's flying already Mach 2 even do she was on the ground.🙏

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers mate.

[@brucekendall52]

Fantastic story line especially as I worked and serviced F1 ejection seats whilst doing my national service.Thanks.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers Bruce.

[@markogorman5210]

Can you do a story like this but on Helicopters used in the border war..? Alouette for example and its role ..?

[@mikehogan9265]

Found both video's fascinating. My late father, Lt John Hogan DFC, flew Spitfires with 2 Squadron and he would have been fascinated by Cobus' stories. I did my national service in the SAAF but the closest I got to fighters was guarding them!

[@dougerrohmer]

Did you guard them, or did your dog guard them? 🙂

[@0448mickey]

I also did SAAF duty, in '69! National service was no fun, but it was important and we did our duty. No-one can take that away.

[@Ddog_za]

@@dougerrohmer?

[@dougerrohmer]

@@Ddog_za Doesn't make sense', does it? Some guy deleted a comment.

[@paulgush]

So glad you asked about the helmet mounted sight.

[@davehero1]

Great interview. Here's a challenge for you, Mike - track down one of the Cuban pilots Kobus came up against in part 1. It would be fascinating to hear about this from a different perspective.

[@Aircrewinterview]

That is a good shout!

[@user-mx2fr6fh7b]

I was based at TFDC and watched the Cheetah fly many many many times . We called the pilots " ROOI KAPPIE " due to the pilots red helmets. One of my family members worked on the radar system in the nose at the then Atlas Aircraft. Interesting. Very special place in my heart for that airplane. No Alternative.

[@stephenmunckton5766]

I think that since DCS World has now the F1 (and in the legendary SAAF liveries) Cobus could add this to the list of his hobbies, I mean, for someone like him who wouldn't like to climb into the F1 again?

[@tyronrossouw930]

Great to hear Israel was so involved with our Air Force.

[@gavinhitzeroth9687]

Watched Kobus practicing an F1 display late one Friday in Langebaan. Best flying display I’ve seen to date . Great interview with a great aviator. Thanks.

[@domkraggp9944]

I enjoyed this, especially the part about recovering from that spin

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thanks :)

[@GraemeDewe]

I do miss the Cheetah, amazing aircraft, loved visiting Denel back in the day and seeing them being built.

[@dougerrohmer]

You mean Atlas :-)

[@GraemeDewe]

@@dougerrohmer oh yes of course, so many name changes in SA had forgotten that

[@dougerrohmer]

@@GraemeDewe Yeah, Denel is in Ukureleng in Gauteng (or something) :-)

[@GraemeDewe]

@@dougerrohmer Denel Kempton Park Campus is the old Atlas next to ORTIA

[@dougerrohmer]

@@GraemeDewe Yeah, I know. I was just being fascetious. And Atlas was next to Jan Smuts (once again being fascetious) :-)

[@andrewmorke]

This was a great interview. The Cheetah had a good BVR capability but WVR it bled off energy quickly with its underpowered 9K-50-12 engine. However, it could get its nose on adversaries pretty fast in a one turn fight like most deltas. There were plans to get a more powerful powerplant: the RD33, M53, etc. but with newfound access to import types such as the JAS-39 Gripen, time was against that effort.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thank you.

[@Ddog_za]

The Russian project? Was interesting.

[@airzulu2733]

Iam from Durban and we new when the cheetah,s were around . Amazing fighter .

[@raybutler4386]

Thank you for a very interesting, informally set, interview. Those that served in active service in the SAAF have a very unique wealth of memories. If I may ask,,,,, - please interview Kobus de Villiers. I am pretty sure These two similar sounding names in spelling an pronouncement knew each other, or at least heard of each other. Kobus de Villiers played a pretty integral role in the development of the Cheetah aircraft, and has some serious knowledge of what was done, and what went on in the background. If you want to link up with him and have a chat - leave me your email address here, and i will see if i can get the two of you together. Maybe you already know him. - This was a great interview. I genuinely enjoyed it. Much thanks!

[@dougerrohmer]

Yeah! And ask him about the Mig 29 engine they put in a Mirage F1!

[@Ddog_za]

Yep, the Russian engine. Read the book. Pretty Interesting.

[@Ddog_za]

Ek di k dit sal 'n interessante storielyn wees.

[@nivensgobs7454]

Guys, this Cheata thing was 1983. Atlas near Boksburg. Cmon

[@KRGruner]

Another outstanding video, Mike!

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers Karl!

[@Vlerkies]

Fascinating insight thanks so much

[@truth8756]

Absoluut fantasties dankie Oom.

[@Homoprimatesapiens]

Very interesting hearing all the bycons airforce events. Its really sad to know what the SAAF was and what it is today. But at least we have good memories of those times. Me myself was at Langebaanweg during my airforce training in 1968. Somewhat before the Cheetah era.

[@wayneschenk5512]

Great interview.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@davidsmith8997]

Another great interview. I can understand the diplomatic reasons for not flying the Sukhoi solo, but that must have been one awful tease!

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers David.

[@bravofoxable]

Legend 🙌🏻

[@user-rv4pc5lp5x]

Cobus was great! Thanks AI!

[@ulisesvelez5846]

the cheetah is or was ultimate figther in saaf.

[@sankubanku1633]

This Channel would go from being good to GREAT if you put time stamps on the videos

[@jeromemausling6324]

Just discovered your fantastic channel. Many hours of informative entertainment ahead. Will you do interviews on.the apache helicopter and rooivalk helicopter?

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers! We are looking at that for later this year.

[@Tomteeejay]

15:15 Great interview. The aircraft was not an Su-32, but an Su-35. The Su-32 was the export model of the Su-34 with the ducknose side by side seating. Along with the Su-30s this was the aircraft that the Russians sent - the Su-35. Known as the Flanker E. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-35 This was the Su-32. The export model of the Su-34. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-34

[@CPiGTi]

It's a SU-27M, serial 709, which was a prototype for the SU-35

[@grahamnel2437]

Mooi man ... ex SAAF ATC at FAPB and Brambos Circa 1988

[@cvillalobos27]

Please do an episode on the Mirage Pantera

[@jk_46]

Oh my there is a replica of spotty in the background, any idea where I might be able to purchase one?

[@louwvandermerwe178]

ELTA 2032 Radar

[@smokinhabanas]

I wonder when the SAAF will be invited to participate in the US Red Flag or Green Flag exercise or have they already participated in past exercises over the previous years- either as observers or sent some aircraft with their ground crews? Anyone know??

[@rylan76]

Most likely have not sent aircraft. The SAAF presently is badly underfunded and the Gripens which have replaced the Mirages / Cheetahs get incredibly few hours in the air. SAAF technical has essentially collapsed, mostly as an offshoot of the complete collapse of the DENEL defence conglomerate that in effect is bankrupt and totally insolvent. There are also very, very few qualified personnel to fly the available aircraft, and very very little fast-jet training, ACM or maintenance flying takes place in the SAAF anymore. There simply is zero money for it. The only community flying a lot seems to be the VIP transport squadron...

[@montys420-]

I would like to hear specifics on the rotations done with the Taiwanese!...???

[@vossierebel]

Did you fly that beautiful black Cheetah at airshows??

[@tightcamper]

I've never heard that before "the 5 paramilitary states" Chile. Israel, South Africa, Taiwan. What is the 5th.

[@cvillalobos27]

The Pantera is identical. They used Cardoen bombs too if I am not mistaken

[@Usulx85]

The Cheetah's were sold to South American countries when they were fazed out of the SAAF. Hence the similarities.

[@cvillalobos27]

@@Usulx85 Mr Torbin mentions the Chilean and South African pilots doing exchanges in the interview. The Pantera program started in 1985 and the first plane was modified in 1988

[@cvillalobos27]

In 2003 5 Cheetah E cells were procured by the Chilean Air Force as spare parts

[@ulisesvelez5846]

the saaf the cheetah. mirage like figther of saaf.

[@LockOnNow]

Damn it, 🗯 missed out to submit my 2 Questions, which I wanted to ask Mr. Cobus Toerien but maybe somebody else may have the answers. What's it all about, the Grey Camouflage Mirage F-1 with the white nose also known by the nickname flying pencil, from Unit: 3 Sqn, SAAF Serial: 202 AFB Durban, 1986.? And what about the bare-metal finish Mirage IIICZ, No. 2 Sqn Flying Cheetahs SAAF, with the Red Flash painting on both sides of the engine ? Thanks for any help on that...👍

[@niel9612]

As best to my knowledge the white nose F1's where aggressors during a training exercise and the silver 111CZ where the original colour scheme in the early days before getting changing to camo later on

[@LockOnNow]

@@niel9612 Thanks a lot Niel for your feedback .👍 Interesting to read that they used the white nose F1's as aggressors. I knew about the bare-metal finish Mirage's IIICZ getting the beautiful camouflage later on I was just wondering what was it all about the big Red Flash sign on both sides of the Mirage III engine body.☺

[@LockOnNow]

@@niel9612 BTW: It was the same with the Israeli Mirage IIIC (Hebrew nickname: 'Shahak') by the ending of 1967 they got their bare-metal finish replaced with the camouflage painting.

[@niel9612]

@@LockOnNow I checked quickly in 2 refrence books I have regarding the SAAF, the one, Vlamgat by Dick Lord, state the white noses on some F1's where for orientation purposes during supersonic ACM camps and the other book, 75 years on the wings of Eagles by Dave Becker show the red flashes on the intakes of the Mirage 3's could be a squadron designation as Sabres of 1 Squadron had blue sashes across the fuselage. This was in the 60's

[@LockOnNow]

@@niel9612 Thanks for your answer and infos👍 Indeed, the Red Flash painting on the bare-metal Mirage IICZ must have been some sort of squadron marking, cause even their Pilot helmets were Red painted found an old photo of the Pilots in the Mirage IIICZ wearing Red Helmets.🤗

[@gb7418]

Is there a way to pay to get these commercial-free without paying for premium KZbin?

[@Aircrewinterview]

There is indeed. We post the full interview a few days or a week before ad free via our Patreon site www.patreon.com/aircrewinterview

[@gb7418]

@@Aircrewinterview thanks

[@0MoTheG]

So the drag in a subsonic high g turn is too high? Then what are the canards for?

[@dougerrohmer]

For more drag :-) But seriously, think of the planform of a delta vs a swept wing - the delta will have a faster instantaneous turn rate, but will instantly then start bleeding speed off and thereafter performance suffers. The canards help at high angles of attack, like lowering the landing speed. I suspect the canards maybe helped with the change of the centre of gravity due to the weight in the extended nose, by moving the centre of lift forward, but I'm not sure. Also, the Cheetah canards weren't all that great - the airframe was not designed for them maybe it was strengthened a little bit to mount the canards but the canards were kind of small and only an afterthought for marginal improvement methinks.

[@paulgush]

What are the canards for? To stop the drag from going even higher in a turn! In any airplane, when you're pulling multiple g's, your induced drag goes through the roof, because it is proportional to the square of lift.

[@oomgawie9175]

Vok julle embargoes ons maak ons uie.

[@darkgalaxy5548]

South Africans definitely couldn't keep the name Kfir.

[@_lo8241]

I wonder how he feels about F1 vs Cheetah in a gunfight

[@louisduplessis7110]

Awsome chat. Cobus is a great guy. They were called in Afrikaans . Flamgatte. Direk translation to English is FlameButts

[@vossierebel]

Ja... hulle maak 'n plan!

[@frednel4326]

Yeah the cheetah is a beutifull aircraft but I can understand why the f1 is hese fav plane, one of the reasons been that it's under its wing so it should fly so much easier and the sensation of control feels different to that of a mid or low winged jet, and therefore more natural and stable much like any bird right ?, I mean do you find a bird with a mid or low wing ?, nope you don't, but I spose there's advantage in a mid or low wing because it can role a little quicker for combat or display reasons, but if it can fly then I love it anyway and most pilots would say same I'm sure 👍, my fascination for aircraft comes from as far back as I can remember and I'm 62 now and still love anything that can truly fly, i wanted to be a airforce pilot but some how ended up in the South African Defense Force mech infantry as a Ratel gunner also in the Angolan bush war Era with service from 1979 onwards, thanks for this and part one on the amazing mirage and cheetah and this experienced fighter pilot ✌

[@TEXXXDJ]

Did u actually work and design the Cheetah...QQ do u know V Visser from Denel...he is the Chief designer him and his team who went to Israel to design Cheetah.... Cheetah's are now sold to Top Gun Colombia and Equador...where he educates the pilots to fly the Cheetahs

[@Deontjie]

.

[@lastmanstanding9389]

The Russians said that the SAAF pilots were among the best, even better than the Americans..

[@wiesenbefeuchter]

I hardly understand him, he mumbles like crazy.

[@LockOnNow]

I am not English speaking, but I would say his English is quite understandable, just listen maybe a little more accurate.😉

[@SeanJamesZA]

Tune you hearing aid dude.

[@wiesenbefeuchter]

@@SeanJamesZA Yow

[@williamkillingsworth2619]

The audio track recording is not very good. He is not mumbling, it is the way it was recorded. But I agreed its a bit hard to hear but the content is very very good.

[@williamkillingsworth2619]

The room echo and a pop/distortion on hard syllables

[@CPiGTi]

Aye! was that the pic I sent you via Instagram at 18:35? Loved part 2 of this one!